Suicide and Forgiveness

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Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

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No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ. Based on the theme in Galatians 2 verse 5, where the

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Apostle Paul said, But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

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In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

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By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her

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King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry.

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My name is Mike Abendroth. Take two. What I'll usually do is if I make a big mistake or I don't like the way

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I sound the first minute, then I'll hit record again. But if I'm in 5, 10, 15, 20, 24 and a half minutes, then

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I just keep going. Might as well just keep going, etc. Well, I received this email today from Brian, and here is the email.

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Pastor Mike, I'm listening to Hank Hanegraaff, a lady called in and asked a question about what happens to an individual if he or she commits suicide.

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Now, that is a great question. Now, there's more to the email from Brian, but we'll stop right there.

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When the Bible Answer Man used to actually really answer Bible questions and answer them well, that program had a host's name,

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Walter Martin. And so what I loved about Walter Martin is that he answered questions, and I thought he did a fairly good job, and you knew where he was coming from—conservative, charismatic, a little more

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Arminian, but a faithful man, and I had a lot of respect for Walter Martin.

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I have respect for Al Martin, too, but that's a different Reformed Baptist Sabbatarian subject. Well, a person would call in to the

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Bible Answer Man and have a question, and then what I would like to do is

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I would either immediately think of how I would answer the question according to the Bible—not my own personal opinion, what does the

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Bible say? And then I would see what Walter would say, and that was when

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I was a brand new Christian and Walter always had better answers than I did, but I was learning and growing in the car as a sales rep, driving from one hospital to the next and learning about the

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Bible. What does the Bible say? And of course, there's more than just answers found in the Bible. It's more than a manual of life.

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There's a lot in the Bible that wouldn't fall into those questions. You can listen to Michael Horton and The White Horse Inn if you want to hear more about that, but specifically, what about suicide?

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I don't listen to The White Horse Inn—man, this is hard to do, isn't it? I don't listen to Bible Answer Man anymore because I think,

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Hank, he's not where I am when it comes to the doctrine of salvation, the doctrine of eschatology, the doctrine of,

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I don't know, a lot of things. So I don't really listen anymore, and so that's that.

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That's just my own two cents worth. But the question, what about suicide, is a real one because it's a pastoral one, and it's sad to say lots of people commit suicide these days.

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Now, I want to say before I continue in my discussion, it's not like my family, our immediate family or close family, has not been affected by this.

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So I just want you to know, like with alcohol, when you have drunk dads and drunk grandparents and other things,

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I don't like drunkenness. It's not appealing to me, and it affects the family.

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When Grandma had to go to work on Fridays and get the paycheck so Grandpa wouldn't drink it by the time he got home that night,

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I understand. And even worse things would happen, but this isn't a psychology show today and my inner child.

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So I understand suicide to some degree as well. This is not a topic that is simply a theological banter, seminary question that goes back and forth.

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If you're listening today, maybe you know someone who has committed suicide. Maybe a family member, maybe someone in the distant family, maybe a neighbor's friend, maybe somebody at church's friend, a loved one.

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This is a real issue. And of course, it's such a—I mean,

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I sigh like that because that's the response. Whether the person calls himself a

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Christian or not, it is just such a selfish, tragic, demoralizing, long -affecting act.

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And so it is very brutal for the family. I know, believe me. And so this is one of those things where it needs to be talked about because people in our society commit suicide.

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I once was called by someone who lives north of here, and they wanted me to come to a small funeral for one of their loved ones who had committed suicide.

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And it was kind of an interesting one because the lady—well, I'll tell that story at the end.

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So I went there and talked with the family. It was not held at a funeral hall, a funeral parlor, a funeral home.

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They don't call them parlors anymore, do they? I met a man the other day who listens to No Compromise Radio. He doesn't attend this church, but he's been coming on some

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Sunday nights, and he is a mortician. He's telling me about how he trains students to do embalming.

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And that'd be an interesting school, morticians. Wasn't the one lady named

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Morticia on the Adams family? I think the answer is yes. Maybe that was the Munsters, who knows?

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And so I went and did the funeral message, and I think there was maybe six or seven people.

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They were glad for me to come, sat down in the living room, and instead of me giving a formal service, it pretty much ended up being a

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Q &A. Could God forgive such a sin? Does God forgive the sin of murder, self -murder, taking your own life, suicide?

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Such a stigma involved with the family and embarrassment and shame and just the ends that aren't closed, and it's like Tony Scott just goes down to San Pedro Bridge, and he's the director of Top Gun or producer or whatever, and then just walks off, gone.

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No goodbyes, maybe a letter, maybe not. And so we talked for quite some time about that, and I'll tell you what we said in a moment, but it was interesting because one of the family members who was there, she came up and she had something in her hand, and she just handed it to me.

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And I took it, looked down, and it was cloth. It was money, and so I didn't look at the bill.

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I just put it in my pocket, said thank you, and I appreciate it, and everybody had hugs, and I left.

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And it was just nice to be able to open up the Bible and to talk about these things with the family. Well, when

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I got to the car, I looked at it, I think it was a $50 bill, and what you don't know is this was a movie star's girlfriend at the time, wife now.

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We're talking major movie star. And so I thought to myself, what do you mean, only 50 bucks?

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Guy could have probably handed me a Cadillac or something like Elvis. So, let's continue the show on suicide.

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This is not an exegetical show per se, just pastoral musings, if you will. If someone were to ask you the question, so let's play

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Bible Answer Man for a minute. Can a person commit suicide and still go to heaven?

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Now, obviously, we're not saying this is the right way out. Let's just assume the answer is yes, a

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Christian can commit suicide and go to heaven. We have ballot measures on voting for this time around.

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This show will already be played by the time November 8th happens. Is it okay to do? Well, obviously, it's sinful.

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And when you look even at the Mosaic Law, and I think part of the Mosaic Law, part of the Ten Commandments are the enduring moral law of God.

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I don't think they all are. See the Sabbath, but you'll see, do not commit murder.

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And that stated in a negative fashion, I think, covers everything.

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And part of what it covers is self -murder, taking your life. You are not given your life, and you're not to take your life.

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Has it caught God by surprise, and what about the sovereignty of God, an ordained end?

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I understand that. I get that. But you're not supposed to take your own life. No matter how much pain you're in,

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God's grace is greater than our weaknesses. And certainly when people suffer, they can rely on the grace of God, and God is faithful no matter what.

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And so the answer is no, if the question is, should you ever do it?

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Is it wise? Is it good? Is it holy? Is it just? No, it is selfish.

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It is sinful. It is foolish. It is a high transgression against God to kill any person who is an image -bearer, let alone yourself.

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But if somebody asks you the question, how would you answer it? What would you tell them? What would be your biblical background?

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Well, Brian goes on in his email to say, Mr. Hanegraaff said that if that individual was saved, then he or she would not commit suicide unless that person was in a state of depression.

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Well, assuming what Brian says to be true of Mr. Hanegraaff, let's just parse that for a moment.

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If the person's saved, he would not commit suicide. So let's just make it more general. If the person's saved, they wouldn't ever sin.

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Well, we understand that the penalty of sin has been taken care of by Jesus Christ.

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His perfect life has been imputed to our account, declared, imputed.

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A forensic alien righteousness is credited to our account, legitimized, reckoned.

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We are reckoned righteous based on Christ's work. And our sins, all of our sins, past, present, and future, are credited to the spiritual account of Jesus.

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And so there's a substitution. Jesus was our representative. Man failed. Man had to undo the damage done by Adam, that is the second man, the last

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Adam. Jesus is victorious, and he pays for our sins, past, present, and future.

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He justifies. He redeems. He reconciles. He makes propitiation, and he says when he does that, it is finished.

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The Father amends it by raising him from the dead. Now, if you are a

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Christian, the penalty has been taken care of. One day the presence of sin will be gone. That's called glorification.

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Won't that be great? No suicides in heaven. No sin in heaven. But the power of sin, the presence of sin, is something else we have to work through.

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And so you can see how the power of sin has been taken care of at Calvary, and if you look at Romans 6.

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But there is the presence of sin. In other words, Christians still sin. They are forgiven. I think they probably sin less and less as time goes on, even though they think it's more and more.

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They think it's more and more because they recognize the holiness of God more and more, and their own depravity more and more.

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And the sin principle that remains in them, sometimes called sin nature, whether we like that or not, that's not the point.

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The sin hangover, the sarks, the flesh, we still sin.

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Christians still sin. Paul said he was the foremost of sinners. And so Christians fall short of the mark.

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Sins of commission, sins of omission. And so can Christians sin? The answer is yes. Christians do sin.

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The only Christians that don't sin are glorified Christians, Christians who are in heaven. And so if Hank says, and Vigil's not saved, he would not commit, if he was saved he wouldn't commit suicide.

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Well this is a sin, yes it's a foolish sin, yes it is a sin that affects a lot of people, yes it goes against image bearing, but sin can be forgiven.

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Murder, can murder be forgiven? Well I think murder can be forgiven, because every sin short of blaspheming the

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Holy Spirit can be forgiven. Why? Because Christ's atonement was simply that great.

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Because God's forgiveness is simply so marvelous. It transcends and engulfs and takes care of sin in every way, shape, and form.

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The horrible, marring sin. So then Hank said, unless a person was in a state of depression.

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Well, I would imagine that whatever state of depression, whatever Hank means by that, that people would have to be pretty down, pretty demoralized, pretty sinful in their thinking, pretty depressed to commit suicide.

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I don't know, we can't study the facts, but I would imagine people that are happy and full of joy don't commit suicide.

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That's why when things are really, really bad, you just need to wait it out until tomorrow, or the next week, or later on, because we all have ups and downs.

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I think I'm a fairly level -headed fellow, I believe, and most of my days are the same.

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And that is, I just work, and I try to minister, and I just live. Some days

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I'm kind of down, I don't know if it's weather, back related, it's just not my best days.

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And so on those days I still try to get a lot done. Even if I'm sick, I'll say I'll get some things done so I feel better.

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Well, the days that I don't really feel good, I don't contemplate suicide. But if I were to contemplate suicide,

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I would just wait until another day. Why? Because I don't want to sin, I don't want to have a legacy of unbelievers saying a lot of good

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Christianity did that guy, I don't want to have shame my kids, and the list goes on. So you have to be depressed to some degree.

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You have to be thinking poorly, sinfully, foolishly to do that. He stated that if he, meaning

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Hank, if a person was in a state of depression and was saved, then he thinks the person that committed suicide would still go to heaven because all sins are forgiven if that person has been saved.

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So let's talk about that for a minute. Let's talk about the depth and breadth and scope of forgiveness.

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Colossians chapter 2 is a passage that tells us about Christ's great salvation.

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It says, He, Jesus, disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame by triumphing over them in Him.

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So friends, think about salvation. Let's just use the theoretical right now.

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If a Christian sins and dies in the act of that sin, do they go to heaven?

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The answer is yes, because Christians have had their heaven earned for them by Jesus Christ.

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You can't lose something that you didn't earn. Jesus earned your salvation if you're a

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Christian, and Christ can't lose a Christian. When God the Father in eternity past chooses you, and then

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Jesus dies for all your sins, and then the Spirit of God quickens you, and He is the

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Erebon, the down payment, the engagement ring for future redemption slash glorification, you will go to heaven in spite of your sin.

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And so the answer to the question is, the theoretical question, if a true born -again

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Christian, the only kind of Christian there is by the way, commits a sin and dies in the middle of the sin, including suicide, can they go to heaven?

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Well they not only can, they do. What if a Christian, let's put it this way, what if a

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Christian is hating someone when they die? They're in the moment of hate, causes a heart attack and they die.

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Well isn't hate like murder, according to Jesus, because of the heart issue? See Sermon on the

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Mount, Matthew 5 and 6. Well we know the answer. What if a person dies and in their mind they're committing adultery?

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What if they die in the act of adultery? Real Christians, of course they shouldn't do that.

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Of course they should avoid that. Of course they should honor the Lord as God is wholly there to respond to that.

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But Christians still sin. We all still sin. What if we die in the middle of the sin? I remember when

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I was a younger person, make sure all your sins are confessed before you go to bed, because you don't want to die with an unconfessed sin, because then you go to hell.

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That's what I learned as a Lutheran. Whether they taught it or not at the top levels, I don't know, but that's what

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I sure thought. And I bet you if you're a Roman Catholic or one with a background of Catholicism, it's the same thing.

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Should we confess our sins? Yes. Should we have cleansing? Yes. But see, we understand that there's two kinds of forgiveness.

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One, judicial forgiveness, see Colossians 2. The judge says we are not guilty based on the work of another.

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And there's also parental forgiveness, and that is fellowship forgiveness. So can the person who commits suicide experience parental forgiveness?

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Well, there's no time to say, Father, I know in light of what you've done for me at Calvary and with your son, please forgive me for sinning in such a way.

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Obviously the person can't, they're dead. But judicial forgiveness still is true.

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Forget what you hear at People to People and the Bob George inspired deal that's on an hour after I'm on.

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They don't get that rightly. Should we commit suicide? No. Is suicide a sin?

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Yes. Are Christians sinless? No. If Christians commit sin and die in the middle of the sin, what if that sin's anxiety?

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What if they're on their deathbed and they're afraid? Are they fearful? Fear not. Do not be anxious for anything.

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And you sin in the middle of those? What is the difference? Well, one of the reasons is that difference is suicide is so shameful.

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It's so, it's just so awful. And like I said, I know what I'm talking about.

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It is the absolute worst. Even in our society today, you know, there are no sins except pedophilia and probably suicide.

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People would say, yes, that's wrong. Here it says, I know that once a person, this is

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Brian, repents of one's sins and puts one trust in Christ, all prior sins, current and future sins are forgiven.

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I'm just not sure about a person that commits suicide because I just can't comprehend how a saved person could do that.

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Well, it is hard to figure that out. But all sin is basically insanity. And here comes the temptation.

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This is an easy way out because of pain, because of shame, because of something or other. It is,

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I don't mean temporary insanity a la court, where you're not held responsible.

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That is completely bogus. You are responsible for what you do, not for the state of your mind in the middle of all that.

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I know there's some play here or there. So if a person is a Christian, they shouldn't commit suicide.

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But I would imagine some have because cancer has eaten their brain to some degree.

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They can't think properly. They're in so much pain. They aren't thinking through issues properly.

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They don't have fellowship to try to encourage them. I think there's probably a lot of particular reasons.

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Yes, I think, I think, Brian, you're right to say, how could a Christian do that? That's exactly the right question.

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He shouldn't do that. But if a real Christian, that's the question, commits suicide, do they go to heaven?

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Yes, they do, because all sins are paid for. Then Brian tells a little bit about his background and how he wasn't a

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Christian, even though he was, quote unquote, saved at eight years old and then a backslidden

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Christian. And then he says, a couple of years ago now, I have actually repented of my sins and put my trust in Christ.

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Because of where I am now, I walk with the Lord. I just don't see how a true Christian would think of that, talking about suicide.

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Please let me know what you think on the subject. If you want to discuss it on No Compromise instead of writing via an email, that would be okay.

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Thanks for what you do. Love in Christ. So some people argue that even

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Samson, it was more than a suicide, but he took his own life and he knew he would. Samson certainly is in heaven, isn't he?

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Again, not apples to apples, not necessarily fair, but Samson is in the Hall of Faith in Hebrews chapter 11, and no one else killed

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Samson. Samson took his own life, and of course there are other motives involved with that as well.

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But systematically, what do we do? We say Christians are eternally secure, and they do persevere until the end.

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And then you say, yeah, but this person didn't persevere until the end. See how tricky this is if we don't wrap our minds around Christ's atonement?

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That's where the answer is found, the atoning work of Christ Jesus. Now, from the subjective side, maybe this person wasn't a

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Christian who committed suicide. Maybe this is a person that has false faith, spurious faith, counterfeit faith, and it's a person who names the name of Christ, but there would be no biblical fruit in their life short of a sinner's prayer when they were eight years old, or 20 years old for that matter.

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Then it becomes complicated, because for God, it is not complicated at all.

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He knows if this is true saving faith or not. And for us, love hopes all things, believes all things, and you know, we desire these things to be true, and sometimes we say to ourselves, let's create heaven for them even though they didn't really live a life commensurate with naming

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Christ Jesus as Lord. And so, I don't blame families when they try to do that, and I ultimately don't know any way, and so we leave that with the

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Lord. And so, what do we end up doing at the end of the day? We try to comfort the family and love the family, but I don't try to put a person in heaven or not in heaven based on what they've done, because it's always based on what

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Christ has done and then living in light of that. So if there was a faithful person at church for 30, 40 years, and I saw a life of ministry, and then they get cancer, and all of a sudden they commit suicide,

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I think you could comfort the family by saying God forgives all the other sins, and He forgives this kind of sin too, and you have seen the faithful track record of this person in their life, and when they sin in their life, what did they normally do?

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They repented. But now there's no room for repentance now because the person's dead. So my name is

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Mike Abendroth, No Compromise Radio. Today we're looking at, and just pastorally, a little theologically, not too much exegetically today, the topic of suicide.

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If you have ever entertained thoughts of suicide, you must resist those, and you must repent of those.

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If you're not a Christian, that would be a very bad thing, because your horrible life now would seem like heaven once you're in hell.

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It'd be a veritable hell. So we don't want that.

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And if you're a Christian and you struggle with things, why don't you ask the Lord to take away those temptations, to take away those things as you run this life for the glory of Christ Jesus.

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Before you know it, your life is going to be over, and then you'll stand before God. And I think you want to finish well, don't you?

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By the grace of God, to finish the fight and to keep the faith. Run the course like an athlete would to the very end and not drop the baton, for the sake of Christ Jesus' name and His glory.

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And so people can see, like Tertullian and Wesley, Christians die well. Mike Abendroth, NoCompromiseRadio .com.

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Get your $300 in for the Greece trip by November 30th, if you'd like to go with us April 17th.

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Info at NoCompromiseRadio .com. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

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Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming power of God's Word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

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Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston.

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You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

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The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.