Baptist News Defends Public Schools from Parents?

Conversations That Matter

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Welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast, my name is John Harris, sitting here this morning at the beginning of a new week with a fresh blanket of snow outside.

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So we had some really warm weather, I said, I think in the last podcast, I mean, it was getting up to, like, it was touching 50, it was like 52 degrees on Saturday, and the ice was melting, the snow was melting, and it just, you started feeling like spring was on its way, and then you wake up the next morning,

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Sunday morning, and there's like four inches of snow, something like that, so, and it got a little colder, so that snow is still out there, but it's very pretty out there this morning, and I am,

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I'm getting better, a little bit better every day, this COVID thing is weird, because it functions, it seems like a normal seasonal flu in many ways, but then it's just got these quirky things that don't usually, aren't attributed to a flu, or associated with a flu, it's like ear pain, that's gone, but change of smell and taste, that's actually more stabilized itself now, but it's like every day,

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I'm a little better with congestion, but it's not quite there, and so I've talked to a few people who have had similar symptoms with their

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COVID, and they say, oh, it takes about like three weeks, so I'm in that, I guess I'm in week two right now of that, but feeling a lot better, so I appreciate everyone's prayers and support,

01:45

I did actually even get to go out, for those who follow me on social media, you probably saw,

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I posted a little bit, maybe I'll include some in this podcast, but I went out twice last week, the first time for a walk, the second time for an actual hike, in the

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Catskills, and you use, when you go in the Catskills and you hike, in the winter, you have to use some cleats of some kind, so some spikes, really, is what we call them, and so my wife and I had spikes on our boots, and we went up, and actually, you're very stable, you can walk on ice, when you have that, and we went to a place called

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Giant Ledge, and then I went on to a place called Panther Mountain, and Giant Ledge used to be one of the top destinations in the

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Catskill mountain range, it's got, I don't know, six or seven lookouts that are cliff faces that you can walk out, and you just got a clear view, a clear, at least 180 view, and anyway, we went on Friday, it was in the 40s, and it was just spectacular, so beautiful out there, so I know some people think that's weird, hiking in the winter, but I enjoy it, but I'm in the office now, enjoying some good peppermint tea, for those interested, a company that shares your values, has a great product,

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put in the promo code conversations, conversations, and you can get yourself some tea as well, and enjoy the remaining winter months with some warm tea by your side, and it does make a difference, it certainly does, so wanted to talk quick today, actually, if it's possible,

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I do have a hard, in like 20 minutes, I actually have to go, so it has to be quick, but I wanted to show an article to everyone, see if I can pull it up here, it just, it was interesting, someone sent this to me this morning,

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I got two things, as I was getting up this morning and checking the news and everything,

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I had two interesting articles sent to me, one is from Grove City College, I'm not going to really go over that, but the long and short of it is they're doing what a lot of these institutions that have evidence of going in a more social justice direction in some sectors of their institution, it seems like they're doing what a lot of those colleges do, and here's a whole article about kind of reaffirming the conservative values, and you know, there's no indoctrination here, nothing to see here kind of thing, so someone sent it to me, kind of,

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I think with the idea that, hey, look, they're kind of trying to show that the concerns that parents and now faculty have, including students, students have as well, about the direction of the school, these are unfounded, that the principles of the college remain intact, so anyway, that's just, it's a strategy, it's a strategy

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I've seen many times out there, and the thing to always note about this is there's never an admission or a retraction because of previous teaching or even current teaching that might be not in accord with the core values of the institution, it's always just, it's kind of like, people call it a gaslight, but it's kind of like, it makes you crazy, you think, wait a minute, did

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I really see what I saw, because now they're trying to say the opposite, and it's just, it's always better to just be honest, to just say, yep, you know, we goofed over here, we apologize, and we're doing better, and much better than trying to kind of obfuscate and deflect and deny and disguise and all of that, so anyway, we're not gonna spend time there,

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I wanna spend time on this though, this is an interesting piece by a guy named Mark Wingfield, yeah,

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Mark Wingfield, and Mark Wingfield is the executive director and publisher of Baptist News Global, it's

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Baptist News Global, so Christian outlet, supposed to be, I mean, it's called

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Baptist News, and evangelical, supposedly, from what

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I understand, and there's this opinion here, and I know I've seen this guy before, and I can't figure out where,

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I must have seen articles in the past, but anyway, Baptist News Global posts this story by Mark Wingfield, called

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It's Time to Stop the Insanity That is Killing Public Education, that's right, of all the problems today going on, it's

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Christians killing public education, and there's a picture of a, probably a mother, who's at, probably looks like it's at a public school, so it's probably some kind of a parent teacher meeting,

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I don't know, and she's being very, she's very passionate about what she's saying, and so this reminds me of the recent controversy over critical race theory and how parents have been the ones to try to get involved, because they don't want their kids learning this.

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So, this is, I mean, hey, colorful, well, I mean, descriptive language, it's insanity, it's extreme,

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I mean, there's, we gotta stop this insanity that is killing public education, these angry parents that don't want their kids indoctrinated, so here's the piece, let's read it.

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From, again, the Christian organization, and I just wanna let everyone know the reason I thought this was a good article to maybe talk about briefly is just to remind everyone whose job it is to educate children.

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It's not the government's job, but we have someone who's, I mean, Baptist News Global, this is apparently a

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Christian organization, making, in my opinion, a little bit of a different case here. He says,

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I am the child of a public school teacher, I am the parent of a son who has been a public school teacher and who remains a private instructor in a public high school.

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Many friends are public school teachers. As a child, I helped my mother grade papers every night and I watched her work long hours preparing lesson plans and creating learning tools.

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I heard her former students who came back as adults to say that what she taught them in math as fourth and fifth graders opened the world to them.

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I read and treasured the letters they wrote upon her retirement and upon her death. As a parent, I have watched my son work magic with middle school and high school students, teaching them the joy of music and helping them achieve things they never thought possible.

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Like many of you, I care passionately about public education as a stabilizing, equalizing force for the good in society.

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I want to stop there for a moment. Now, a lot of what he just said in the first few paragraphs could go on a

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Hallmark card, and of course there are teachers like this, and I wouldn't want to take anything away from that.

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There's people who have had good experiences, especially in previous generations, in public schools in certain parts of the country, and you still probably can.

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In fact, I know of a science teacher in a public school system, I would never tell you where, but teaches, does not teach

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Darwinian evolution, teaches creation in the public school. There are places,

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I don't know how many are left, where you can still do some of that. The only reason

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I bring it up is just to say that, yeah, the general trend in most public schools are going to fill your kids' minds with a lot of indoctrination and things that you're really going to have to work hard against if they end up going there, and I would encourage parents to try anything they can to make sure their kids don't go there, but there are places where circumstances are different, and you are able to do that to some extent.

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Parental involvement is the key here, and we've gone through a transition in our own society where we went from a one -room schoolhouse setting where parents did, where a teacher was accountable to parents, and oftentimes churches would sponsor teachers, to now it's run more and more by a centralized bureaucracy, the

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Department of Education. It's a centralized thing emanating from the national government, the general government, and that is not the same thing.

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In fact, that is Karl Marx's dream. I point this out in Christianity and Social Justice. That was one of the communist manifestos main pillars, if you will, for how to make sure that the bourgeoisie, the proletariat, or equality exists, and that you don't have this disparity in wealth.

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It's to make sure that there's public schools. This is a Marxist concept. Some people, at least, have just bought, and they think that's normal, and it's not.

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It's a very recent thing, and honestly, it's a very Marxist thing. Anyway, he says, like many of you,

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I care passionately about public education as a stabilizing, equalizing force for the good in society. On that point,

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I won't spend long, but that's not really the point of public education. Could it have served that purpose, especially during the

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Cold War times? To some extent, perhaps. You could maybe make that argument in some ways when you have immigration happening.

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This is a place where everyone is going through the same kind of experience, but that's not the point of public education, to be a stabilizing, equalizing force.

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Just so everyone knows, that should never have been the point of education. Education is to learn.

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It's to understand the world, for adults to be able to know how to think, to have a grounding.

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You hear this too with public school, that it's helping kids socialize.

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That's one of the things I've heard for years. It's for helping kids socialize. That's nice.

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That's not the point of education, though. As soon as these things that aren't the main things become the main things, and they're not a means to an end, they're the end in and of itself, it's for some public good, it's no longer for educating children.

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It becomes part of a necessary function of society, an institution to further stability and equalizing force.

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You're in mission drift at that point. That opens the door for a lot of things. Anyway, let's just go through this.

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I'm burning time here. I could probably stop every couple of sentences. I want to get to the main point that I want to make in all of this.

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He says, in a world filled with so much inequity, even though our schools may not always be as equal as they could be, public education remains perhaps the greatest single means of giving everyone a bootstrap to pull up.

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It is foundational to our society and our democracy. These are sacred things in the minds of some.

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It is disgusting, dismaying, and disheartening to see that the continued attack on public education from conservative evangelical

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Christians and people who pretend to be evangelical Christians but couldn't find John 3, 316 in the

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Bible, if you ask them, it is time to stop being shocked at this behavior and stand up against it. Now, this is just, it's so immature.

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You know, they couldn't even find John 3, 316. Really? I'm pretty sure most of the people who are homeschooling and pro -private school who are

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Christians, they probably would do a much better job being able to find John 3, 316 than most.

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This is a funny, I don't, this guy's obviously got an axe to grind, and I don't know if there's something personal going on here, but you know, our public education system is, the results aren't that great.

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I mean, I don't have it pulled up, but I mean, you know, we've heard it many times where the United States falls when it comes to math and reading level and all kinds of other things, and it's not to, it's not something to be that proud of, and we see the indoctrination that's happening.

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We see how kids are growing up and what they think about the world and how it's shaped by the curriculum that they're forced to memorize, and it's not good, and for Christians to say this is against our faith, this is, honestly,

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I mean, he's saying it's stabilizing. I mean, not really. Maybe there was a time you could say in some ways it was, but at this point, really?

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The public school, a stabilizing system, and they're teaching kids to hate the very foundation of their society.

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Look, I have, I don't need to go over, I have family that's also in the public school system, and yeah, the stories

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I hear aren't the nice Hallmark card stories. It's kindergartners getting indoctrinated,

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I mean, into the Marxist stuff, into the LGBT stuff. It's really, honestly, very concerning, and for Christians to be concerned, that's very normal.

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So he says, this has been going on for 60 years, though. It seems to get worse with every passing year. We now have reached a crimeworthy crescendo in which the very future of public education hangs precariously in the balance.

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This is not an exaggeration. Well, I mean, good, but he's saying that's bad.

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Why? Because a very loud minority of parents wants to conform entire school systems to their narrow way of seeing the world.

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Really, the public schools, they don't see the world in a narrow way, apparently. They see it for what it is, apparently.

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In the 1950s, this sprouted from racism that rallied parents to oppose integration of public schools.

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By the way, you hear this a lot, that these are segregation academies, these private schools, this anti -public school thing.

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It's weird, and it's racist, and there's a good book by a guy named Glenn Slater about this topic, and I'm trying to remember the name of it.

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I think it's called, well, if you type in Glenn Slater, I'm sure it'll come up. I think it's

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Rebuilding Christian America or something like that. Anyway, he changes the scope of this and says, look, if you go before the whole battle over integration and all of that, this was already happening.

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Parents were forming private schools because of the Darwinian indoctrination.

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That was really what kicked this all off, but there's an insistence today that this had to have been. It's part of the smear effort.

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There were some segregation academies, but it's not like that's whole story, and this guy should know better.

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Anyway, let's keep going. One of the big differences then was that racist parents formed private schools through their churches to protect their children, precious white children, from having to sit in a classroom or playing a sports team with darker -skinned children.

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Their response to their racist impulses was to remove themselves, and I'm sure that's what parents, all the parents were just thinking that, right?

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It wasn't because standards were going down in any particular area or crime was going up or Darwinian things were being taught and prayer was being taken out.

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None of that stuff had anything to do with any of it. It was just pure racism.

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Anyway, he goes on, but now the plan is broadened. Parents who want their kids educated in a world that hasn't existed since Little House on the

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Prairie are desperate to divert taxpayer funding from public schools to support their sectarian private schools.

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They are not willing to pay the price for being isolationist and having failed. Okay, this is, I think, the voucher thing.

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Yeah, I mean, look, if you want equality, you want competition, you want schools that help society better,

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I mean, introducing some competition would be the way to go, but, you know, that's bad. He says, having failed at this unconstitutional effort.

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I mean, right, the whole public school thing is unconstitutional, emanating from the centralized government, so if we want to go down that route, we're in the constitution to give the central government the right to implement public schools.

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He says, having failed at this unconstitutional effort, they now are trying to take over the entire school boards and bend the will of public education to their whims.

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Like, they, this is actually, I'm having a hard time getting through this without laughing. They are like parents who micromanage and berate coaches on Little League teams because they know better than the coaches how the game should be played, always seeking advantage for their kids, not the team.

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They are the parents who insist their kid must always play first base or pitcher and blame the coach when their kid drops the ball.

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The examples of the insanity in this debate today are numerous, including book banning, the made -up hullabaloo,

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I think you learn those words in public school, hullabaloo, about critical race theory, and the bogus fears about transgender athletes.

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But for today, look no further than my home state of Oklahoma, where Republican State Senator Rob Strandridge has introduced a bill that would allow people to sue teachers if they offer an opposing view to the religious beliefs held by students, according to MSN News and multiple other news outlets.

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Standridge's MSN News, okay. Students' Religious Belief Protection Act would allow any parent to demand the removal of any book with perceived anti -religious content from the school, and the news service reported subjects like LGBT issues, evolution, the

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Big Bang Theory, and even birth control could be off the table. Um, I haven't read this bill, uh, it's uh,

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I mean, but honestly though, I'm already liking it, just the negative way that this is, um, yeah,

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I mean, look, if you're going to educate children, I mean, how do you do that in a way that doesn't have some religious underpinning? There's going to be some religious underpinning, whether it's secular humanism of some kind, or, um,

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I mean, I've argued that social justice is a religion, it's going to be something like that, or it's going to be Christianity, uh, that,

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I mean, or, you know, in some areas in the country where there's more Muslims or something, it could be something else, but it, you can't really avoid that from education, so,

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I mean, this is an inevitable battle. Uh, further, under this proposed legislation, teachers could be sued a minimum of $10 ,000 per, so he's very upset about the penalties, let's skip ahead, uh, the

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Oklahoma legislature says this bill is necessary for the preservation of public peace, and he says this is insanity.

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Um, no surprise that just a month before, Strandridge introduced a bill to ban books from public school libraries, I'm sure it wasn't, yeah, banning books, uh,

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I'm sure it had something probably to do with critical race theory, um, anyway, the, the, uh, oh, here we go, uh, he wants to ban books from public school libraries while our governor believes our school libraries contain pornography, they probably do, they probably do,

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I don't understand, I mean, even when I was a kid, and, uh, growing up, I mean, that was one of the issues, even at the local school, was that their, uh, sex education stuff basically, that's what it was, to some extent, and, you know, you're giving this to kids that can't handle it, uh, at those ages, and it's really not the government's responsibility, shouldn't be.

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Alright, so he says we cannot fail to connect the dots between this attack on public education and the larger political maneuverings in our nation, this is at root about Christian nationalism, and more specifically, white

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Christian nationalism, this is motivated by racism, fear of science, and a desire to rewrite history, it is a taking the failed tiki torch lit slogan of make

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America great again, and applying it to public education, this is insanity. Alright, so he goes on a rant, he keeps going, uh,

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I, I really want to jump to the end of this, and he's saying we need to, we need our public school system, uh, he quotes a bible verse though at the end, he says, um, the very mission that Jesus said he came to accomplish on earth, uh, is, okay, hold on, let's, let's back up here, for the sake, uh, we cannot let this happen for the sake of our children, for the future of our communities, and our nation, we must rise to defend public education that lifts up the least of these among us, and helps every child excel, why, because this is the very mission

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Jesus said he came to earth to accomplish, read it for yourself in Luke 4, 18 through 19, the spirit of the

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Lord is upon me, this is every social justice where he uses this, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor, he has sent me to proclaim release to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the

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Lord's favor, when attempts to control public education do not amount to good news, to the poor, the release of people held in educational captivity, the opening of minds to reality, uh, and do not set minds free, the spirit of the

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Lord is not there, uh, not to stand up for this Jesus agenda is insanity, right? Okay, so this, the public school is a

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Jesus agenda, and it really, it boils down to this, it's very similar to Karl Marx's view of public schools, uh, public schools bring about some, they produce, it's not about educating children, it's about producing some, some state of affairs in society, some equality of some kind, and it's, it would be horrible to introduce vouchers, or to have, um, you know, some kind of regulation where the parents and, and the people who actually,

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I mean, he says it's against democracy, but you have, it's actually democracy in action, or at least a republican form of government that would be regulating these schools, so that makes no sense, but, uh, but to have parents have oversight over the kids, uh, that, that would be so horrible, it's, so who's going to make the decisions, right?

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It's an elite group of people who went to Ivy League schools at the top of this, and they'll tell you what your kids need to know, is that, is that fair?

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Is that equal? Is that, you know, that, that's somehow neutral when, um, and parents are just, it shows a mistrust of parents, and, um, and then twisting scripture to try to make this work, um, you know, it's not about spiritual captivity anymore,

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I mean, it somehow now fits into the public school system as part of Jesus's agenda.

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I want to share with you some verses, uh, just a few here, um, about parents' responsibilities for, uh, training up their children.

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You have Ephesians 6, and there's a number of, uh, a whole relationship between children and parents in Ephesians 6, starting in Ephesians 6, 1, children obey your parents, and the

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Lord for this is right, right? It's, it's, that's who, um, uh, children are to respect, to obey, and, and if parents want to, you know, have a teacher, um, function in a way to, to help educate students,

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I mean, as long as the parents have oversight, I don't see a problem, but it's ultimately parents that children are supposed to obey.

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Uh, fathers, uh, verse 4, do not provoke your children to anger, but what does it say? Bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the

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Lord. It's for fathers to educate their children. Um, Proverbs 22, 6, train up a child in the way he should go.

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Even when he is old, he will not depart from it. Uh, you have, um, uh, 1

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Timothy, um, 5, and, and this, you know, isn't directly related to education, but it's, uh, indirectly, uh, if anyone does not provide for his relatives, especially for members of his household, he is denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

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I mean, a big part of education is helping someone provide for themselves, giving them skills for life.

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So, um, uh, if you look in the pages of scripture, if you look at the commands of God, uh, it's for children to honor their parents, honor their father or mother, even says that in the 10 commandments, and it's for parents to provide for their children.

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And that includes instruction, includes education. So this isn't given, uh, to the, um, the, the professional class of educators, supposedly.

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It's given to parents and, and there should be nothing wrong with parents wanting to have a say and wanting to have some oversight, and maybe even wanting to directly be involved in educating their own children.

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And for someone who claims to be a Christian at a Christian, um, website, to try to twist scripture to support the idea that, no, it should be an elite group of educators out there, and they have, uh, more, uh, they should be given preference over the parents for how to educate children is, is so unbiblical.

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It is just so against what the Bible teaches on this topic, uh, in context.

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And, uh, so good for the parents who are making these decisions and, um, uh, bad on Baptist, uh, news or what was a

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Baptist global news, Baptist news, global, bad on Baptist news, global for even publishing a piece like this.

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And it makes you wonder how, how do these Christian organizations that take such un -Christian positions on things, how do they get their funding?

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And, uh, I know the answer partially to that, but, you know, how, how do they even have readership? It's just, it's fascinating to me.

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Um, I was having a conversation with some guys a few days ago about, uh, just Christian institutions, how they're going left, that kind of thing.

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And one of the things that we were talking about, which I thought was interesting, maybe something for further discussion someday is how the left knows their enemy.

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The left knows that they can subvert and deconstruct Christians, the church, then they can, they can get political victories.

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And so they put a lot of resources into that and, uh, the right political, right. I'm talking about, they don't see the need to really secure one of their big, uh, base demographics, uh, conservative

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Christians. They don't see the need to put resources and money into that. In fact, they're probably a little embarrassed that these are the kinds of people that would vote for Republicans.

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And so, um, I think that's part of the reason that you have this huge imbalance in the, even, you know, there's probably way more organizations that claim to be

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Christian that are on the left when, uh, primarily, uh, Christians, Protestant Christians, evangelicals, especially in this country, would be on the right politically.

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It's, it's an interesting dynamic and I don't know what it would take to, um, for, for people to realize, uh, and I'm talking strictly in political terms.

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I'm not talking right now about the more important theological, uh, issues which are underpinning this, but even in just political terms, uh,

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I don't know how long it would take for people on the right politically who are trying to strategize to like kind of wake up and realize, hey, like this is what they're doing to one of your base demographics here.

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Um, anyway, uh, interesting dynamic. I hope that was helpful for people. If anything, just, uh, to, to reinforce, to review the importance of parents having oversight over education.

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It is so important. Government doesn't, your kids don't belong to the government, all right? This is foreign thinking.

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This is thinking that, uh, it's new, frankly, and I mean, we probably always grew up with it to some extent, but it's new, relatively new in the grand scheme, and it's

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Marxist. And, uh, so, uh, anyway, hope that was helpful. God bless. More coming later this week.