What is the Church of Christ?

It's that it's fascinating to me how easily someone in one religion can find the fallacies and biases in another religion. I think that what's fascinating your raise your razor-sharp on your your your criticism of Islam here.

Yeah, and but what I find fascinating Jeff is that you recognize that with other religions.

But you don't do it with your own because I that may be the case. And and there's that confirmation bias coming up again.

Welcome to Apologetics Live and Tonight’s Topics

Welcome to apologetics live. We're here to answer your questions and challenges about God and the Bible. Meet your hosts from striving for Eternity ministries Andrew Rappaport. Dr. Anthony Silvestro and pastor Justin Pierce.

We are live apologetics live here on Thursday nights to answer your Challenging questions about God and the Bible. You think we can't answer any question you have about God in the Bible. Well, take the challenge.

Come on in go to apologetics live .com. Just remember one thing. I don't know is a perfectly good Answer so I can answer any question, but I may say I don't know and when you say you didn't answer it Yes, I did.

I don't know is an answer. Just remember that. It's something always good to remember when you are talking with folks because some people don't realize that. So we're this is a Striving fraternity is who hosts this.

If you want to get more information about us go to striving fraternity dot o-r-g. If that's way too long for you to type. Let me shorten it for you. Just go to Sfe dot Bible that'll take you to the same site.

But we we're doing this each week. Let me bring in my co-host. Mr. Pastor Justin Pierce. How are you, sir? Hello, how we doing?

Better than everybody. I've missed everybody. It's been like yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while.

So let's we got a packed show. I'm sure and so before we do let's get to the news. Let's get some early news articles. So here's a news article 25 agencies tracking employees with religious exemption requests.

That's right folks. You you wondered why the government was or government was forcing employees to Put a vaccine mandate in order. Well is very simple. They wanted to know who's going to apply for a religious exemption.

There's now government agency where these big tech companies and others basically all the fortune 500 companies are now giving to the government. Those names of those who chose to do a religious exemption and that way they're now being tracked.

So congratulations. You are on the Holocaust watch list. All right, so let's let's deal with something I I got to bring this up. This this one's very interesting. I don't know if you saw this in the news 102 millionaires Including I guess Abigail Disney have signed another letter asking Governments around the world to raise their taxes and so it says this is their letter that they want millionaires to sign.

By the way, just so folks realize depending where you live in the world in the country. In America, you know in you live like in New Jersey the average house is about five to six hundred thousand dollars so if you've been working for like 3040 years and you've been putting money away in a 401k and you got a house.

That's you know, they say is worth five six hundred. You're a millionaire. Okay, and you go wait I'm like middle-class barely getting by yet. Not not really. So so their their letter is in tax. We trust.

And this is very interesting it's to our millionaires and billionaires. They they're they're saying that's unfair this this this tax system We have is unfair because the us rich people don't pay a lot now.

No, okay. Here's the thing Justin III boggles my mind. Well the the signers of this, you know what they're able to actually do if they think that it's unfair the amount of taxes they pay.

Well, they can take their stuff offshore so that they actually don't have to pay.

They want the world to do it. You know what they could do if they can actually get more. They could give more. Exactly they can write a bigger check. What an amazing idea. Don't sign something that says we want you to force us To pay more if you really believe it just pay more now.

I do find it interesting because they they make a thing trust in Politicians in society and in one another is not. It is not built in tiny side rooms. Only accessible by the very richest and most powerful.

It's not built by billionaire space travelers who make a fortune out of a pandemic But pay almost nothing in taxes and provide poor wages for their employees. Really interesting. Wow, I think the guy that they're speaking about he pays 54 in his taxes.

He pays paid more taxes than any individual in US history. So he pays next to nothing according to them and yet the fact is he's paid. You know for folks that don't know who they're referring to Elon Musk.

He has paid more taxes than any.

Person in American history. Business one individual.

Actually has has paid more in taxes than some countries are great gross national Products so it very interesting. I thought very funny. I think it's very hypocritical to To say, you know, and if you want to read it, it's kind of funny in tax.

We trust org. That's the where you can go read this and see the what they want everyone to sign on to.

So, you know what's amazing about that about that article that you're talking about here is If if they lived the socialist lifestyle that they want to profess that everybody else should live. They wouldn't be millionaires and billionaires.

Correct. What they are what they're doing is actually trying to get everyone on board the program of Socialism of you know critical theory all these things. They're trying to get everybody to see it as normalized so that the middle class goes away.

Because what you have in a socialist society is you have the upper-class elites who own everything on behalf of all the servants. Correct. And and all of those would be us who would be. Who would be.

Brought under the thumb of the dictatorship of the the rich elite. And and the thing is that is you know.

Whenever we see, you know socialism. Marxism take over an area. Although they always preach take it, you know that they do this for the poor and the and the underprivileged. Those that are the rich are the ones that always benefit from it.

They're the ones that always end up Taking over and so yeah, they want everyone. This is why they're not paying the extra taxes. They're asking for the government to force it because when the government forces it and they have you know.

Like Abigail Disney who has way more than just a million dollars. She's not looking at like, you know, the five hundred thousand dollar house in the five hundred thousand four one K. But she's she's looking at way beyond that and and she's promoting and pushing it.

Why. Because when they get it guess what? The middle class goes away and she's one of the few in charge which always happens.

I don't know if anybody's looked in the grocery stores lately But I actually took pictures of our grocery store down the road and you know I hear all these people talking about well, we're not having that big of a problems.

Our our meat section was almost decimated almost gone. There was no chicken. The milk was gone. I mean, they're begging and scrimping and trying to get the products from as many different stores They can to bulk up their area So that whenever somebody comes and sees it, it doesn't look as as if it's as if it's empty.

So in other words you have Instead of instead of one row of the half and half Let's just give an example one row of half and half has got like maybe five or ten Jugs of half and half they slide it all the way across the front and so it looks like the whole thing's full.

But it's not it's actually you're actually having less product. Not saying Thing are you? Oh, yeah. Oh, well because they don't want everybody in a panic yet yet. All right. Well, let's.

Let's let's do this because we're gonna have you know, and I'm gonna I'm gonna tell folks right up front. Okay I know you guys can't see who's backstage. Oh, yeah, I have a feeling that you know, Pastor Justin.

We may be getting a little distracted here. Discussion. I'm just thinking because there's there's a whole. This is it will be interesting but but to. Since we're talking politics, let me bring I'm gonna bring someone in that.

You know, he's he's got a podcast it on comedy and politics things like this. Jamie welcome to a politics live.

Nope, he's on mute. Yeah, I got. I did not expect to be thrown in that fast.

But I do you in right away. I do not have a podcast on politics.

Politics that I know it's humor. Yeah humor talk show. Explicit. I know this is this one's not explicit. You got to be clean on this one.

You have to warn when I shared the pot so folks so that folks know. It's the regular listeners. No, I went on to the wisdom app after after the show one time and and on that time Jamie came in just and wisdom is an app where You just you can you talk about Sun and anyone can come in and just be a guest.

Kind of like like if you think about talk shows. Radio talk shows, but in this case you have no one screening. Yeah, but for me I mean those are the regular listeners. For me I view it as like, you know open-air evangelism.

I I get up and just say what I want to say until someone kind of you know. Heckles me and then we get into a discussion and then they go away and someone else comes in. Really what is. And and you you came in you didn't know anything about me.

We started by talking some mixed martial arts and different things and we started talking about religious matters and and Basically why Christ came and died. And and then you were gracious enough to invite me on to your podcast.

Which I'm sorry about the ratings. I'm I know they went Right into the dirt after that. I'm sorry.

Listen to episode so far. Well, I did. I was downloading it over and over and.

But I did I did warn. You know folks, you know that that you know kind of follow me on social media and all I did warn them at least. That so this is an interesting thing. I warned people that hey, listen this.

I was on this the show you you might enjoy listening to it. We get you know, we got to talk about the gospel and. But be be aware, you know, this gentleman is not a Christian and you know. There's some language you may not like.

So, of course someone did listen. I know someone listened because I got a response, you know with someone very upset with me for putting that on my you know on my. You know like on it was a Facebook on that one.

You know that I shouldn't put that out on Facebook because they have bad language in it. I'm like. Did you read? I said that. So if you chose to listen after like either one of two things you didn't read what I said.

Fault on you. You read what I said and went ahead and listened and now you're complaining when you already had a disclaimer there fault on you.

Sorry, the fault's not on me.

So but I did want to you know. Yes, if you come on and I was like sure if I could get a you know. A third opportunity to talk with you about Christ. I would love to do that. But I do what we do here is open up to any any challenges any discussion.

So I wanted to open the floor to you to and any questions you'd have. You mean we had to to I think really good conversations.

Now that I'm like seeing you talk to me like on a stream and this is a compliment. What I'm gonna say to you. You look like a more Christian version of Mel Gibson.

Yeah, that was a compliment. You said you want to take him off the show now, is that.

It's a good thing. It's a good thing that you have not seen me with my beard because when I have my beard Everyone I have gray in the same areas Mel Gibson has gray.

Look like Mel Gibson, though. Well, what you gotta realize though is Andrew does have a face for radio. I do I do.

I said that about me before he came on. I was like, that's why I can't show myself on camera.

Yeah, well, you're showing like an an icon of yourself and it's yeah, the icon still looks better than me. So.

Yeah, I don't right off the bat like I'm usually when I talk it's more in the heat of the moment kind of thing. So, I mean I heard the topic that you guys were talking about before with most it was more so.

Economic stuff and all that kind of stuff and just the one thing. I always I Really find it funny. I've lived in this country. What's it called my whole life. I don't have a passport so I've literally been in this country my whole life and I always find it funny when I hear people say one of the.

It's one of the most wrong things I've ever heard in my life when people say oh, you know. Small businesses are the backbone of this country. It's like if they were the backbone in this country. They wouldn't have all been shut down during the pandemic and then all these giant corporations were the ones actually making money.

They don't need see that's the thing small business owners have to realize. You just own a house that sells lemonade. That's all you do like you're not special and they can wave you off like a big, you know, please, you know.

So so let's let's think of the context of that. What is what does it actually mean to say that that small business is a backbone of the country? It's not the idea that small businesses run the country.

It's really when you look at the way like what the founder is thinking. It's that small businesses prevent What they've seen time and time again where you have the few rich that when they're the rich they can control everything.

So having a lot of small business and having us rely on small businesses. Or the design of it is to prevent what we saw happen in a pandemic, right? And and the reason it's now so out of kilter Is because of the fact that during a pandemic all the small businesses were shut down and and then the big businesses were the only ones allowed to to Basically work.

And and provide things and and now small businesses are going under we'll start seeing the effect of that probably in a few years when the big businesses now control everything and the government just.

Those in the government power only have to work with a few of those in the money power the business power. And once those start they work together as they're doing. Then monopolies won't matter anymore because the government's not going to shut down the hand that feeds them but two things to that one.

I one thing I I think and this man, this is what I think. I have no idea if this is true or not. This is what i've seen from my perspective. I think big businesses Put this lie into small businesses owners heads like yeah We are the backbone of the country just to give them like this false sense of pride.

And then while like the real businesses that run this country are just counting their money like they actually think they're the backbone. That's hilarious. And then secondly again i've grown up here my whole entire life since I was a kid.

Corporations ran this guy like oh my god walmart's the evil corporation. Oh my god starbucks. What are we going to do? It's coming up. It's like now it's amazon now. It's tesla it's like there's always huge corporations that people complain about since like I was a baby since I was a kid teenager and Now that i'm an adult.

I I just it's the same. Same thing wrapped in a different wrapping paper.

Well, it is a little bit different because one thing we haven't had before is Big companies that can now censor what you're allowed to to read or or even think. I mean not that they can stop you from thinking but you know, you you.

If you have a certain view they want to silence it, right? And so we do have that but so let me ask you let me ask you a question jamie. So in our in our past two discussions, you know, we we talked a lot about.

You know, basically things of of that you and I both break god's law, right? We've we've talked about that. And we talked about why christ came to earth. I want i'm curious. You know any any thoughts on any of that from from the the different discussions we've had.

Um in terms of what can you go a little bit as far as in terms of.

You know, has it has it caused you to think more about. You know your current state standing before god.

No, no, I mean, I loved the conversation that we had and it was a really fun conversation. I like talking to you because I don't think. For even someone who like has their belief system that you have, you know I like anyone who's a nice person I don't care what belief system it is and you and you're a nice person at least when I talk to you.

So hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Yeah, go ahead. You've never met him. Okay.

If you guys figure we get that corrected right away.

Our conversations. You've come off nice. I don't know if you have severed heads in like your freezer or something, man. You've been in my freezer.

Bad humor man. I didn't realize that. You you you didn't. You know, you were talking human heads or deer heads. I sorry I forgot. Actually, I don't know if you could see my new bow. That's right right there in the there's.

You turned out to be mel gibson. You're exact i'm talking about.

So, uh You know, I mean I I really the one thing I'd you know, I can't I can't help you know every time we we get together and talk is is to try to challenge you with this though because You know You know as we've said before marie about two people die every second right.

160 000 a day um and You know considering that 10 out of 10 die. I you know, i'm concerned for where you'd spend eternity and i'm gonna be right because I care about you so You know, I I I know that you said you haven't given much thought of that.

But I I really want you to to think through the previous conversations we've had. And and really consider You know, what would happen a second after you die?

Okay. So yeah now that's a okay. That's a more detailed thing to think about. Um. With that I remember you saying on my podcast and then you saying in the beginning of this episode that you know There's yes.

No, and also I don't know like an answer could be. I don't know so I personally don't know what what's going to happen when I die, you know. I just know that dying is something that most likely most humans if not all are going to do at one point.

I don't i'm not saying there is or isn't an afterlife. I'm, just saying I don't know mainly because I never at least I don't know i've never died before. Now I have a question for you. Do you because I think You answered this on the podcast.

Do you know there's an afterlife or do you not know if there's an afterlife?

I I absolutely know that there's an afterlife. And is there a reason why or multiple reasons. Well, and and i'll tell you how I know, you know, there's an afterlife. How's that.

Yeah, dude. I'm, i'm open to it a hundred percent so.

What we what we know is that we can look at creation. And know that god exists. Okay. Let me just read you what god himself says about this um. You know we. He says for the wrath of god is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men.

Who suppress the truth and unrighteousness? Because that which is known about god is evident within them. For god made it evident to them. For such as since the creation of the world his invisible attributes His eternal power his divine nature have been clearly seen being understood.

Through what has been made? So that they are without excuse so every one of us actually according to god. Can look at creation? And and we could know something about his attributes. We could know something about who he is.

We could know that this that you look at the vastness of this universe. Or go down to the smallest element of a cell. And and we still haven't you know, we we used to think an atom was the smallest Part of a that we could get of a cell and then we found subatomic and you know quartz and things like this.

We've we keep we're now in the subatomic level finding things. And it's still amazing. We still can't figure out how these things function so we can look at all of creation. And know that god exists. And his but what did that's what does he say there his wrath is revealed?

Okay from heaven. Against all ungodliness god gave you and I a conscience and that's why when when we talked last time I asked you. You know, I walked you through the the ten commandments, right? Because that's.

That's what our conscience tells us. It tells us we know we're guilty when we do something wrong. Well, that's god's wrath being revealed to us. And if we were just chemical reactions, we wouldn't have that reaction.

Right, it would just it'd be nothing. But the fact that we have a conscience. We can look and know from creation that god exists, but then we can look at our conscience and know we're accountable to that god.

Does that help you in in seeing the answer?

So you're talking about um. Finding items smaller than atoms. Basically, you know at one point we thought atoms were the small. I mean not me personally. I'm not a scientist and I don't have a stethoscope.

Um, but smarter people than me thought. You know thought atoms were the smallest thing and then they found quartz and all this kind of stuff. But now you're also saying We know that god has to exist because we have conscience but can't science keep digging and find answers to the point where they find that.

There is a scientific reason on why we have a conscious.

Yeah, and and this is this is an argument called the science of the gaps. Okay, this is where when we can't explain something we shove science in. The reason science can't do that is for this simple reason.

Science is the study of the natural world and so the only thing science can do is is Study and research the natural world the material world. It cannot handle the immaterial world. So anything that's immaterial science can't answer.

Science doesn't have an answer for that. And so when we go to things that people are. You know, let me give a a maybe a controversial um one here. When we go to things people will say well I was born biologically male but I You know, I identify as female right?

We have people saying that nowadays, right? They say that and yet they also say that many of the same people say that there is no god. There is no immaterial part of us. We're just a bag of chemical reactions now.

Here's the dilemma. If you're biologically male You would be male you would you would think male you would act male you would be male because that's your biology. When they say that they can identify against their own biology, they're revealing there's an immaterial part of them.

That's not biological. That's not material. And There's no way to explain that in science because science so trying to use science. To explain the immaterial world would be like me asking you How how many feet eight gallons of waterway.

You can't do it. It's a category. I'm i'm I. I didn't do well in math in school.

Well, the point being is you can't you can't measure weight by feet. You you measure it by pounds. Or, you know depending at least here in america we do it by pounds. Kilos. Yeah. Category error is what ends up happening.

And so trying to use science Which is the study of the material world to understand the immaterial.

You can't do it. I have a question to the beginning and i'm sorry if i'm cutting, uh, the other host off. Uh, No, we don't we don't like him talking anyway.

I don't talk whenever whenever andrew's just rambling on and and just saying things incoherently. I'm, actually i'm on side chat talking to everybody. So, oh sure. Sure.

Um in the beginning of that you're saying Um something about the gap theory or something like that where when there's a gap science kind of just shoves themselves in there. Correct, but when science is shoving themselves in there when they're not aren't you in essence doing the same thing when you shove god?

Into those gaps. Or aren't you shoving your belief system when people who are into science are just shoving their belief system into the gap?

Yeah, that's a good question. And and I would I would say no for this reason um the ability to even To reason to do science, right? There's certain things we need. We we need an ability to reason. We need things like truth laws of logic.

Okay. Knowledge, those are all immaterial things. So if you deny the immaterial world you can't do any of those things so the only reasonable rational starting point is that There must be an immaterial creator.

All right, because because let's think about it. The universe had a beginning. We you know, science has has shown that. Okay, einstein proved this out that there was a beginning to the the time-space continuum.

Now there's there's three possibilities to how it began. One. The universe always existed. Except we were able to prove that the universe didn't always exist. It had a beginning and it's going to have an ending.

Right is is you know that it now we could say that it would be recreated but you know stars explode. You know, they are implode and and die out uh, so we know that when we look at The science, okay the the first law of thermodynamics shows that the Matter had a beginning so the universe couldn't have always existed that eliminates that.

Okay, the second one the universe created itself well. That breaks the second law of logic. Which is the law of non-contradiction because the universe would have to first exist to be able to create itself.

But it can't create itself. If it doesn't exist and you get into a problematic thinking. Well, then that leaves us a third option someone or something created the universe. And that is where the only logically sound argument that we can make looking at the science Can take us and so our natural starting point if we're going to make sense of anything is to start with god.

And so you it's not that because I believe it i'm i'm shoving a belief in where I don't understand something. I'm saying I don't understand something because god's greater than my ability to understand.

So I don't expect to understand everything. But here's the gotcha. I i'm saying that without god we can't make a sense of anything.

You understand that I understand what you're saying. Um, so and this is a side question. Really so do you think. Um, People when they have ideas and thoughts feelings emotions and everything because that is not a I guess a physical thing.

Those kind of thoughts and feelings and everything must also show and prove that there is a god.

Yeah, and there's so there is the way that god has designed us. There is a a relationship between the material and immaterial as well. So I would say to answer your question simply. Yes but also I I want to explain a little more give a little bit more to that because the follow-up question that many people ask.

Is we can we can? Take chemicals to affect our emotions. Right, we can you could take things that will give you a a More euphoric feeling and you feel happy. You can give peel things that make them feel a little bit chilled out.

You can you know when you have people that have mood altering drugs, right? It affects their mood. Now granted whether religious or science we don't understand that relationship between the physical and In immaterial to know how the chemicals in our body can actually affect the immaterial part of us and and.

No one has the answer for that, right? Uh, and so now the way that those that deny the immaterial altogether. They say we'll see that's proof that there's no immaterial part of us. And and yet there are immaterial things the way I usually explain to jeremy is this.

I I this is the example I always give. Uh, I I like to use the laws of logic. So i'll refer to a law of logic. I mentioned earlier the second law of logic is the law of non-contradiction. So what that's properly defined is you can't have a and not a in the same way at the same time.

In other words, you can't have twenty dollars in your wallet and not have twenty dollars in your wallet. At the same time and in the same way. In other words, we had this argument.

We had this discussion, yeah, see. I have this discussion all the time. So I told you you could. I said you were wrong. I was like if I had two 20s and I took a 20 out. It's like yes. Now I have a 20 in my wallet and I don't have a 20.

But you still have a 20 in your wallet and I also don't have a 20 in my wallet because I tell you.

You don't have one of the 20s, but exactly.

Do you have a 20 right and I don't have a 20. I don't have I don't have.

20. Yeah, we'll see and that's the difference. You don't have the so you don't have that same 20. So we're saying is either there is one $20 bill in your wallet or not. And we talked about this I guess and I probably said it but I could have a monopoly money 20.

That's a different kind so we get to the point of the beginning of the universe and and everybody. Will agree that there was a time because most people when they say when you bring up the laws of logic people say well.

That's just a just you know, that's the product of the human brain. That's the chemicals in our brain that create logic. And so I go, okay, let's go before there was human being before there were humans.

We all agree. There was a time before humans some think billions of years some think You know five days, but whatever it is before there were humans. Could the universe have existed and not existed in the same way in the same time?

And the answer is no it would it would break the law of Of logic called the law of non-contradiction. Therefore the laws of logic were not products of human thinking humans discovered them. But didn't create them.

And and they're immaterial things. And so I rely on that you could also look at you know, one that we talked about is morality, right? When you know, we look at morality and say. You know what makes something right and wrong.

And and people will say well it's you know, it's uh. You know what the society says? Well, then you can't say what hitler did was wrong and that was actually the arguments that they made at geneva convention.

You know was oh, you know, we did what we thought was right in our culture and and people said no it's it's not based on. There's a universal absolute standard of right and wrong. Where does it come from god the nature of god?

So like why is lying wrong we talked about lying when you and I talked why is lying wrong. Because god's not a liar. Why is stealing wrong. Because god's not a thief. Why is adultery wrong because god's not an adulterer?

So we base it on the nature of god and so it makes something right or wrong is based on who god is. That that and that also makes it why it's an absolute universal standard.

You know a universal standard that there has to be a god because Of just our feelings and emotions on things our morals, right? Well, not just that but you think about this.

Um, I have a thought thought. Uh. A little experiment for you for a moment. Um, how old are you if you don't mind my asking?

I won't tell my exact age, but i'm in my late 20s. You're in your late 20s. Are you sure about that? I I. Well, that's a good question. I don't know if I was adopted. He's really 19 now see now.

So my. So my question is. So my question here is. Yeah, um, are you sure you're not five minutes old?

Uh, I don't know. Everything that's been told to me could be a lie. Just like what you guys have been telling me this past episode. It all could be false.

So so. So you have no you have no reason for having a rational rational grasp on what is called reality. Then If you could if you could be. If you could be five minutes old or five, you know five years old.

Then then what is your reason for any rational grasp on reality. And so my point being um. If it's possible what you know is absolutely wrong then then it stands to reason that you don't know, right? Yeah, no, I don't know.

I don't you don't know. No, but here's the problem. You do. You absolutely do know how old you are.