June 1, 2018 Show with Jeffrey Waddington on “The Unified Operations of the Human Soul: Jonathan Edwards’ Theological Anthropology & Apologetic”

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Good.

Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth.

We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Friday on this first day of June

2018.

And boy, I Am so grateful to God that I went to the banner of truth

US ministers conference.

Which just came to a conclusion yesterday.

It started on Tuesday the 29th of May

and Concluded on the 31st of May yesterday, and I am just totally

amazed that The that.

Sorry, I was just interrupted by a text from the studio in Dublin, California.

That's airing the show.

They just wanted to let me know everything's working fine.

Okay.

But I I I was amazed at how many people as compared to last year when I was at

the banner of truth.

How many people came up to me?

Very excitedly and Enthusiastically raving about how much they love iron sharpens iron radio people

that I had never met or heard from before.

People who have never emailed in questions for the guests with the exception of a few.

Just totally blew me away.

It really made my year.

Knowing how many people are out there, especially in the audiences of

a ministry.

Like banner of truth, or should I say how would you phrase it?

I guess you could say audiences since they have conferences, but also their readership obviously since they have not only

since they are most well known for publishing the finest and reformed literature, but also they do have a

magazine as well, but I Was just totally blown away.

I can't even think of words to adequately describe how the Lord blessed me.

That.

Happens a lot at other reformed conferences, but last year for some reason when I went to the banner of truth There was only a

tiny handful of people that greeted me.

So they listened to the program this time.

There were every day about 15 or more people that came up to me

to rave about the show and I just was blown away and one person in Particular that really blessed me.

I Was sitting down in the cafeteria to have lunch.

There was already seated there an Indian gentleman who I'd never before met and He looked

at my name tag looked up at me and said I listened to iron sharpens iron radio in India.

I am a reformed Baptist pastor.

Samuel Boppuri is my name.

I've sent you questions and now I hope that pastor Samuel Boppuri

Who is the pastor of the Reformed Baptist Church of Vinu Kanda in India and I hope I didn't

mispronounce that but I hope that we have begun a friendship that will last a very long time.

I hope he's listening today actually to iron sharpens iron, but Enough of that

for now anyway.

Oh one more thing about that I'm so delighted that

Not only did the president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

who I have had the privilege of interviewing once before on

iron sharpens iron radio.

Not only did he?

Tell me that he would be delighted to be interviewed once again on iron sharpens iron radio

and he assured me that he would be very enthusiastic to accept

another invitation and Of course, I am speaking about the

one and only dr. Al Mohler.

But also Alistair Begg who I have not interviewed in years.

I interviewed him once in the old show and he also reassured me that he would love to come on the show.

So pray that those two interviews develop very quickly before they both forget they ever saw me.

But anyway now To move on to the subject at hand today.

I am so delighted To have as my guest again on iron sharpens iron radio somebody who has quickly grown to be

a very dear friend of mine somebody who actually Texts me a good morning message

every single day seven days a week, and I'm not even exaggerating Jeffrey C. Waddington who is stated

supply of Knox Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Lansdowne, Pennsylvania.

He's also the secretary of the board of the Reformed Forum.

He's a panelist at Christ the center and east of Eden.

And he is the articles editor for the confessional Presbyterian Journal.

And today we are going to be addressing a book that he has written and also an encyclopedia that he has

contributed to.

We are going to be addressing during the first hour the unified operations of the human soul Jonathan

Edwards Theological anthropology and apologetic and then in the second hour we'll be discussing

the Jonathan Edwards Encyclopedia and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio pastor

Jeffrey C. Waddington.

Oh.

Brother, it's my privilege to be here, and I'm glad you brought up the banner because I was going to

ask you How that had gone.

I have at least I had at least two friends who were there.

So I was getting some Feedback and I did watch a little bit of the live streaming of

that event.

Caught David strain on the one the one slot in which he was speaking.

Loved that Scottish accent.

Yes.

Had the pleasure of meeting him and getting my photo taken with him and I saw that I hope to have him back.

Yes, he's a you know, you know, you probably perhaps you've heard Carl Truman say that

He could prepare 10 less for his sermons on Sunday simply because he had a

British in English accent.

Because we loved we loved the accent and that and that is really true, but It's a

it's I'm glad that the the conference went well, and I was going to say

Chris just as an addendum to your comment about the brother from India.

Is that this?

Your friendship that you Now are aware of that.

This gentleman brother was listening to to iron sharpens iron.

That's going to go on into eternity it's not just a long time here, but you'll be able

to Cast your crown at the feet of our Lord in the new heavens in the new

earth.

So that's a beautiful thing that get it started here and now.

Amen.

The the book that we're going to talk about the unified operations of the human soul Which is of course

a very sleek short title.

It basically was my dissertation PhD dissertation at Westminster Theological Seminary

Which I submitted and graduated from that program in 2013 and the book was

published in 2015 and Here we are in 2018.

So that's five and three years back.

So hopefully I will Remember what some of what I wrote in the book?

You laugh but you know as I'm getting on in in years I.

Find myself more forgetful than I like to be.

Yeah, that's very comforting because I think you're younger than me, aren't you?

53 yeah, you are.

You're three years younger than me.

So thank you for the insult.

But anyway.

Before we go on before we go on to the book.

Tell our listeners those who have not heard you before on this program.

And by the way, I'm amazed to learn that you are somewhat of a celebrity amongst reformed

people.

I'm amazed how many people know who you are and are blessed by your work.

I think it's especially because of the reformed forum but I It's I would say that

at least Three -quarters of the reformed people who I mentioned your name to say.

Oh, yes, Jeff Waddington the reformed forum great.

You have Jeff Waddington on your show.

Wow, I'm like really taken aback by that.

But.

Before we go on to that since we do have new listeners that seem to be joining us every day.

Tell our listeners about Knox Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Lansdowne Pennsylvania.

Knox OPC is an original congregation that came out of the

PC USA the mainline Presbyterian Church Around 1936 when the

OPC then the original PCA was formed.

Many of our list of your listeners no doubt would be familiar with the whole modernist fundamentalist controversy of

the 1920s and prior to that.

And the whole situation at old Princeton Seminary and and the the congregation comes out of

that.

It's a unique congregation within the OPC exclusive psalm singing, etc.

So so it is also the congregation that professor John Murray

Hit banner of truth.

Professor Murray was was when he was not preaching elsewhere.

He he would attend the worship at Knox.

He was of course, he was of course Scottish.

And so he was a exclusive psalm singer him or nearly so himself.

So this was his his home base when in the Philadelphia area

now.

Did he go there because?

Knox Orthodox Presbyterian Church unlike most OPC congregations

Was already exclusive psalmity and exclusive a cappella or did the church develop that view just to

accommodate dr.

No, it would actually it was another pastor who introduced so it wasn't

exclusive psalm singing and non instrumentation.

At the beginning it became that at some point after Leaving the

mainline church in becoming a part of the OPC and.

The congregation has not always been in in Lansdowne, which is near Upper Darby.

In fact, it's right on right next to Upper Darby and Yadin if anybody knows the suburbs

and the communities around Philadelphia we're right on the blue route.

That's the 476 South going toward the 95.

We're not far from the Philadelphia International Airport.

So and I've been there almost six years, it'll be six years in August that I've been the stated supply.

Oh, yeah, by the way, your denomination really has to come up with a better term.

That is the most ridiculous term.

I've ever heard.

See that standard Presbyterian.

Sometimes you'll say regular supply and what that means is I'm not periodic.

I'm the I do all of the things that a pastor does.

Which is not necessarily expected of a stated supply.

But I had told the congregation the session When I when they asked me to come on board that I would want to

do all those things.

Even though they weren't required by our Book of Church Order.

Well, it's still.

I think it's a lousy term and you got to change it anyway.

Reminds me of it reminds me of a commercial you might see at 2 o 'clock in the morning.

Stated supply everything from lumber to licorice shaft price.

All right, we're not a hardware store.

Well, I actually when I was originally publicizing your interview I had Mistakenly put

pastor there and I said to myself.

Oh, I don't want to get any flack from the Presbyterians about this.

I better put stated supply.

And Tell us about the reformed forum.

Well, the reformed forum has now been around Ten years as of in

January.

It was our 10 -year anniversary.

We just had a board of directors summit in Grand Rapids where we

Met for five days actually four days.

To discuss the movement going forward in the future, you know vision and so forth.

Not vision in the sense of seeing things, but what we wanted under God's

guidance do.

And.

We we were we had the privilege I should say of meeting At the

Puritan reformed theological seminary where dr. Joel Beeky is the president.

Many thanks to Hank Klein who Is the plant operations?

Manager there at the seminary had a beautiful room to do recordings.

The reformed forum is basically an internet Christian education

ministry.

We do podcasts some.

Not unlike iron sharpens iron.

We do several different kinds of podcasts.

We also have written Blog posts, etc.

And we now have a conference where this one Lord willing coming in the fall will be our

fourth.

Yeah, our fourth annual reformed forum conference and and that is typically held at

Our OPC Church in Grays Lake, Illinois just outside of Chicago.

Great and.

By the way, dr. Joel Beeky is a friend of mine.

I've known him for quite a long time even before Puritan reformed theological seminary existed and

in fact, I was one of the first people To get dr.

Beeky on the radio when I first met him.

He was still in the Netherlands reformed denomination and they prohibited the use of radio

quite a hell quite a hyper Calvinistic bunch of folks there and

they viewed using the radio to evangelize and spread the gospel as an Arminian thing, so.

Thankfully he he left and he and like -minded brethren formed their own

denomination the heritage reformed Congregation Denomination and it started out

being called the Netherlands heritage reform.

But they dropped that the Netherlands at least at most of the congregations drop the Netherlands.

I think he might have retained that but anyway, he's a great brethren Christ.

I always love to see and hear him preach.

I love reading his books and send my regards to him if you happen to.

I will do that.

His book assurance of Salvation assurance of

fate I'm forgetting that the exact title was published by banner of truth.

Again, that that was a modified the modified version.

The original there was Peter Lang publishing.

Yeah an academic press press where you pay a hundred plus dollars exactly.

Which by the way is one of the reasons I went with the publisher I did.

Because the prices, you know.

Folk might think 25 or 30 35 dollars is expensive.

But for an academic title, that's actually pretty cheap.

Yeah, I tell us quickly about Christ the center and east of Eden.

Sure Christ the center is the is the flagship podcast that the Reform Forum does

we we fly at a rather high level academically, it's that's on purpose

and basically it grew out of table talks that I had with with

colleagues of mine Camden Busey and Jim Cassidy.

Who are both OP ministers and now?

Ably Amplified by Glenn Clary among others who are regular

panelists on the program.

I'm not on the program all the time.

Scheduling doesn't always allow that.

And and it covers a whole host of theological and biblical topics.

So it's but it's that we have other programs, but that's our flagship.

Every Friday for the last 10 years.

There has been a new episode.

We're in the 500s at this point.

And you would you would relate to that Chris with the number of views you've been doing.

Iron sharpens iron.

East of Eden is is dedicated to the biblical and theological in systematic theology of Jonathan

Edwards.

Now what's we.

We haven't done a new episode for some time simply because of of logistics, but we're

praying that the our Schedules will will free up at some

point and one of and that's a program that I do with Nick Batzig the Reverend Nick

Batzig who's pastor of New Covenant PCA in outside of Savannah,

Georgia and The Reverend doctor now Reverend doctor as of a week

ago the Reverend doctor David Filson who's also

in the PCA.

He's the Pastor of something or other Discipleship or

executive pastor at Christ Presbyterian Church in Nashville, Tennessee.

That's a large congregation that also has a Christian school.

Do you remember a couple of years ago there was a teacher a Christian school

teacher who had severe illness.

And.

The students went to his house stood out in his yard and sang to him.

No, I don't remember it actually made the news, huh?

National news like NBC ABC CBS to CNN that teacher was the teacher at

the school that the that's Operated or has a connection with Christ Presbyterian Church.

But anyways, we all do the The East of Eden and that comes from the name of one

of the Edwards sermons.

Actually, it wasn't the name.

He gave it.

It's the name that the editor of the Yale edition works of Edwards volume

gave to it.

We are unique in in that we are.

We are unique among Edwards.

Edwards Ian's in that we are Vantillion's and Voss Ian's and caffeine Ian's so so we've got a.

When we come to Edwards, we come to Edwards with a certain perspective that will is unique.

Not that we purposely, you know set out to do that.

But it's who we are and you can find those of podcasts also on the Reform

Forum website.

Great.

We'll be announcing all of that before we go off the air with Pastor Jeff, but

last but not least in regard to your resume here.

Tell us about the confessional.

Presbyterian Journal.

Confessional Presbyterian Journal is.

Actually the the type we've that we've published stuff by Articles stuff is not

a very precise word material by Reform Baptists

Continental Reform folks, so it's it's In fact most most

recently Richard Marcellus who is a Reform Baptist to pastor out in California.

Yes, I've had rich on the program.

In fact, I just recently just very recently actually have had him.

So he's been published at least once maybe twice in the pages of the confessional Presbyterian Journal.

And it's a it's a once -a -year journal ranging and I guess around

275 pages or so.

So it's an academic or learned journal.

But it's also got practical concerns in terms of the the life of the

of the Christian in the church.

And very often you will we have a theme that the.

Each issue is built around like we had one issue that was built around John Murray one

around BB Warfield.

I think we had one about on Machen one on Calvin when he had the five into the anniversary of Calvin a few years

back.

And I I guess the one thing That I've added to my resume is I'm an adjunct

professor of systematic theology at Westminster Seminary and in Glenside now.

Oh, yeah, I did forget to mention that.

That's okay.

I mean, it's it's and I got off to an auspicious start by having my course on

Edwards canceled.

Wow, they did.

I didn't have enough students to it was it was announced late.

Normally they give you know several, you know a month or two of time for students to

consider what they want courses They want to take so I'm hoping to offer it again.

It's really based upon the book that we're talking about.

I taught it At in Taiwan a year ago.

For I was over in Taiwan at the China Reform Theological Seminary in Taipei.

And for two weeks taught there had a wonderful time by the way.

With brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Had an opportunity to preach as well as to teach the course and also to deliver

the graduation sermon to the the to the seminary graduating class.

Great, so that was exciting.

Oh, and that's all by God's grace.

I mean, I would never have guessed year, you know 30 plus years ago that that I would have these opportunities.

Well going back to the confessional Presbyterian that almost not even almost it does sound like

a redundancy.

It's almost like saying the dunking Baptist.

I'm.

I'm.

Guessing that.

I'm guessing that the reason that title was chosen for this journal is because there is a

view by those involved in the journal that although technically

All Presbyterian Denominations are confessional.

I'm assuming the view would be that many are not actually adhering to it.

Yeah, I would.

That would be putting it nicely.

You're right it does.

It is somewhat very redundant.

But of course, you know that that the mainline Presbyterian Church Departed from there could

the confessional standard of the Westminster confession and larger and shorter catechism many many years ago.

And made it official.

1967.

When they I guess turned the confession into a the equivalent of a painting on the

wall in a museum I Think that's I read that somewhere that that's how they.

What they did with all the confessions and you know, they going back to the Apostles Creed.

They basically turned him into museum pieces.

Yeah.

Yeah, because obviously I.

I mean there are there is a remnant of faithful men in the PC USA even in the

pastorate, but you could hardly say that the denomination at

large is at all Faithful to the confession.

In fact, you know, you even have apostasy in that denomination as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, I mean remember I'm OPC.

So I'm going to take a hard line on the PC USA.

But.

Anyways, the jerk the journal it may be another way of saying is that.

And we mean it, you know confessional.

We mean it.

Well, we try to take those things seriously, yes theological and biblical commitments.

Well moving on to the book the unified operations of the human soul Jonathan Edwards theological

Anthropology and apologetic.

Obviously you were joking earlier when you talked about the brevity of the title.

But.

This is your doctoral dissertation in print and it makes sense when you see this theme or

this title because aren't doctoral dissertations purposefully supposed to be

Written on something that has not been done before or at least.

Yeah in in the in the abstract or in the ideal sense.

It's it's supposed to be original research.

But you know with Jonathan Edwards It's gets pretty hard to if I

say something that hasn't been said by someone somewhere at some point in the past there

are as of 2005

There were 5 ,000 I think it was 5 ,000

pieces of secondary literature on Edwards in other words people writing about Edwards or some aspect of

his theology and.

That's now realized.

That's now 13 years ago.

So that's that that figure has probably multiplied astronaut

geometrically if not astronomically.

By the way a wise guy in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

Who's a regular listener to our show.

Ted says.

Did you know that Jay Gresham Machen once played canasta at Jeff's Church?

Uh -huh.

Well, I know.

There you know, there are stories of mate Machen used to host students to play

checkers in his Room, I believe he did it

did it all at Princeton.

But also carried on the tradition when when the established Westminster and remember when

Machen was alive.

Westminster was downtown not far from 10th Presbyterian Church on 17th and

Spruce in.

Philadelphia the Center City as we like to call it remember that church.

Well, because that's where I Went for a number of years to the Philadelphia Conference on Reforth.

I remember PCR T when when the late dr. James Montgomery Boyce was still there and those are precious

Memories of cutting my teeth on the reform faith at those conferences.

You can you can actually find a beautiful marble plaque in the

in the sanctuary dedicated to him.

Back when Westminster was still located in that neck of the woods in Center City it used

to be the nickname for Westminster was a Barnhouse theological seminary

because that's when in the heyday of Donald Gray Barnhouse being the pastor at 10th.

And of course he was well known as not only as a world -renowned preacher, but also as a radio preacher in his

own, right back in the 20s and 30s and 40s.

Amen.

Well, we are gonna go to our first break right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Jeffrey C Waddington, by the way, I just don't want to get an update on how

to Properly introduce you.

Are you a doctor yet?

I've been a doctor since 2013.

I've been wrongly or insufficiently inadequately introducing you ever since I met you then that's

okay, brother.

It's it's Not not a problem.

Okay.

Well, dr. Waddington if you have a Question for him.

He will be returning after the break.

By the way, dr. Waddington.

I have to tell you that Since you are on Skype and that's one of the things the only thing that's disappointing me

about this interview Is that you normally come into the studio here?

And we have a nice time of fellowship typically even over a meal before and after the show

so I am a bit saddened by the lack of your presence here, but Just to let you know that if you are

going to be speaking with anyone if you're going to be flushing a toilet or anything Like that during the

station break put your microphone on mute because it will be heard Over the airwaves.

I have no way for some reason unless somebody can show me in the studio equipment.

How to do that how to mute a Skype guest?

I don't.

I don't see any way.

I I do know how to do that at my end.

So don't have no fears.

All right, great.

But if anybody would like to join us with a question of your own for dr Waddington our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail

.com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com please give us your first name at least your city and state of

residence and Your country of residence.

If you live outside of the good old USA, I don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages with dr Jeffrey C Waddington and our discussion on the unified

operations of the human soul.

Jonathan Edwards theological anthropology and apologetic.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns in of iron sharpens iron radio if you just tuned us in.

My guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is Jeffrey C. Waddington, dr Jeffrey C

Waddington we are discussing his book the unified operations of the human soul Jonathan Edwards

theological anthropology and apologetic and then we'll be moving on to Announcing the Jonathan

Edwards encyclopedia to which our guest Contributed if you'd like to join us on the air with questions of your own.

Our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris a r n z n at gmail .com.

And.

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country residence if you live

Outside of the USA and by the way the voice you just heard pastor Bill Shishko

formerly the pastor of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square, New York now retired and

operating a Reformation Metro, New York a power church organization under the headship of the

Orthodox Presbyterian denomination and Host of a visit to the pastor study, which I hope you all

are listening to or at least will begin to this Saturday tomorrow from 12

noon Eastern Time to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on Wli e 540 a .m. Dot

com or in the New York tri -state area parts of Pennsylvania Massachusetts and Rhode

Island on 540 at the a .m. Or on the a .m. Dial, but Pastor

Bill Shishko is a mutual friend of my guest today. Dr. Jeffrey C Waddington and myself and he is

quite a dear brother in Christ.

Is he not dr. Waddington?

He is.

And we not only know him, but he's a close friend of one of the members of my

congregation.

Who used to be a member of the OPC work in Franklin Square?

Hey, man, and then he speaks very highly of you brother Jeff and is delighted that I have

been interviewing you.

But let's move on now to this very interesting and unusual title.

I feel like going through the title just like John MacArthur exegetes a passer of Scripture by

one with each word at a time.

He'll do it'll spend at least a half hour on each word.

Let's start with the no, I'm only kidding.

Uh -huh.

Unified operations of the human soul.

Well, that is an interesting Phrase so if you could what is that?

Well, it's dealing with Edwards concern that the human soul or

personality or the heart.

Or that if you want a more technical term dispositional complex.

Our human the center of our being is is a

Created by God to operate in a unified fashion.

That means the the intellect or understanding the will and the emotions

that these operate together.

And what.

What I'm responding to and what Edwards was responding to was what is often referred to

in the Technical literature as faculty psychology and

faculty is Simply means a power or a capacity of the human mind or the human

soul.

I.

See and I think if I'm not mistaken Doesn't this then perhaps?

Delve into Edwards view of the human will.

Yes prior to the fall, which actually there is some disagreement amongst Calvinists

Over his approach to this.

Am I correct in assuming this?

Yes.

Edwards of as you may know is is is Appreciated that even I don't I'm not I

don't I'm not I wouldn't call myself an Edward's Ian.

I'm an appreciator of Edwards in the way.

I think that the professors at old Princeton would appreciate him

And so but on this point, I think Edwards is is exactly right and

I'm I Understand that there because it's a doctoral dissertation.

There is someone I have to disagree with.

And and and that person happens to be the venerable John Gerstner, ah.

Yes, I love dr. Gerstner, but he did have some

Unique views that were not shared even by someone who?

Now in glory with him viewed.

Dr. Gerstner as his mentor.

Dr RC Sproul did not even agree with some of the things that our dear brother in Christ now in

glory John Kirshner believed including the free offer of the gospel.

Yeah, it's um.

With regard to to dr. Gerstner, it's a very fine point.

In other words I want to I and I say this in the in the book that I'm not disagreeing with with

the you know, I Guess you would say the majority of what dr.

Gerstner did in his work with Edwards.

I would be on this I would be in the trenches with dr. Gerstner in terms of the

larger Edwards academic community.

I.

Remember, you know talking with people who who had comments to make about dr. Gerstner, and I'm

thinking if only you knew what I thought You'd be equally, you know disturbed with

with my views.

So on this the and the particular issue is in his book on classical apologetics, which

he co -authored with RC Sproul art Lindsley.

He talks about the fall Affecting the intellect.

Indirectly, yeah, they were opposed to presuppositional ism.

Yes, but not now.

Now that now they know better.

Everybody that we disagree with when when if they're believers, they're in glory and they know better.

But and so that the defined point is what does it actually what is.

What did he mean by indirect?

Noetic effects of sin.

And I challenged that but that really is the occasion for my study.

But it is it is not like I spend all my time Dealing with dr. Gerstner.

He's kind of the excuse.

To put it another way of doing the research it's what got me interested and.

And.

Sent me off on on looking at the the human soul the heart

Biblically.

And I think this is where Edwards was was right.

And this accounts for the subtitle Jonathan Edwards theological anthropology.

Apology is another way of saying doctrine of man.

Okay, and apologetic would be defense of the faith.

So if you need to translate that you could say Jonathan Edwards doctrine of man and His defense

of the faith and how they relate.

So I'm arguing that that Edward that Edwards.

And the other argument that I'm Making against Gerstner is that Edwards is not

the nice clean classical apologist that dr. Gerstner portrayed him to be

if for no other reason.

Because he predates these these distinctions that we now take for granted.

Different schools of apologetics, it's quite interesting that you would find.

Well, it just shows you that Something that even dr. Gerstner believed was true that

we are fallible finite and Far from perfect on this earth, but it's amazing that a

man you would you would find disagreement with a man over Edwards when he immersed his

life into the Teaching and history and life and

legacy of Jonathan Edwards next to the Bible.

That is probably what he immersed himself into more than anything and yet here you are disagreeing with the great.

That may say more about me than him but but Dr.

Gerstner understand.

Dr. Gerstner himself a student of Edwards Did not hold to

Edwards Idealism and all.

If we need to I can explain what that means.

Yeah, well, why don't why don't you.

Why don't you.

But whenever you can because he is it is kind of interesting how He is in many ways.

Dr. Gerstner was in many ways very close to the theology of the

Protestant Reformed denomination and He's that would seem to militate against Edwards in many

points.

But anyway, if you.

It's it but what I was thinking of is dr. Gerstner did his PhD work at Harvard

in the 1940s?

And Gerstner came up with in the ranks with the great names of the broader the resurgence in

the academic resurgence amongst evangelical scholars like Carl Henry Kenneth

concert EJ Carnell all these folks that

that that I Read about as a new Christian and wanted to learn more about

and I did and I have and vent Hill Right, and so all these great

Great folk and Gerstner went to Harvard and he did his work on broadly speaking

Scottish common -sense realism.

It's specifically the work of James McCosh who was a Scottish Presbyterian Minister

and president of Princeton back about the time He can't.

James McCosh came to Princeton at the same time that BB Warfield entered Into his

studies at Princeton.

What is now Princeton University?

And McCosh was an advocate of this school of philosophy called Scottish common

-sense realism now Scottish common -sense realism is a

reaction to Idealism and it's also a reaction

to David Hume's Form of I would call it skeptical empiricism.

Idealism as a philosophical school goes all the way back to Plato

and the I and in the concept I can't even get away from the use of words that that are similar

the idea of forms Patterns, you know, we we you may be

sitting at a table.

It's not a perfect table it's one particular instance of a table, but there is

there it does exist in another dimension in in the Realm

of forms the perfect table or the the pattern of the perfect table.

Okay, that's a form of idealism but specifically Edwards

Embraces what I would call Trinitarian theistic idealism and

in his day it had the sense of Building on although not being

slavish to John Locke the British philosopher

and also Edwards has some similarity to.

The.

Bishop George Barclay.

If you read his name in print, it looks like Berkeley, but it's pronounced Barkley and

specifically the idea of What is real is what is perceived or

to be is to be perceived.

You know the question if a tree falls in a forest and there's no one there to hear it.

Does it make a sound right?

That's a Idealism question only an idealist would have really or someone who's familiar with

idealism would would appreciate that Question that sounds like a philosophers question rather than it is

and and my response is yes.

It makes a sound because God is there.

Amen.

Uh, I mean, that's that's the how I and that's I think how Edwards would answer but anyways getting

back to the larger question is Edwards is Challenging

In his day and it's in it's partially in defense.

Although not only in defense of the the Great Awakening.

But he's defending the idea that that true Christianity involves

the whole person.

Intellect will.

And if you include the the emotions as distinct from the will he didn't he follows in

A grand tradition of thinking of the human soul as having in the intellect and the will and the

emotions are simply vigorous actions of the will.

That's his understanding.

So I I hope just from all of this that I've said you can kind of get a sense of why how this

would connect with the apologetics if you think that that the the human

the fallen human being is Someone whose intellect and will are equally

fallen but in different ways Reflective of how God has made the intellect is over against the will

the intellect is the means whereby we understand the will is the is the means whereby we are attracted to

or repulsed from something.

Okay, and and and so Edwards would say that that a human being whether

created or Fallen or restored or in the

consummation a human being Is not made.

It does not have inside himself Little critters running around who are

who are miniature people Sometime and this is one of the caricatures that the John

Locke makes in his essay.

It's treaties on human understanding.

That that the faculties the understanding of faculties

the philosophy of Edwards day and in Locke's day before that Often treated the intellect

is over against the will as over against the emotions as if there were three people

battling it out for supremacy in the human soul and That doesn't square with

scripture is basically Edwards point.

So the so that Anybody that argues for the pride the absolute primacy of the

intellect or the absolute primacy of the will.

And there is disputes in the history of the Christian Church.

One movement is called intellectualism and is manifested in the work of Thomas

Aquinas and then there's voluntarism, which is the primacy of the will and that's

Exemplified in the work of Duns Scotus it just happens to be two major medieval

theologians.

And this is was a big debate in the Middle Ages and it still is carried on today.

Believe or not. Well, we have to we have to go to a break and I want to read you a question.

That has a lot to do with what you're talking about actually.

And then I'm gonna have you answer the question when we return from the break.

And by the way when we're on this break, this is our long 12 -minute Midway break that we

have to have that length because grace life radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida.

Who broadcasts this program a day after the live airing of it?

They require a 12 -minute break because they air their own commercials and public service announcements and things

so I would strongly urge you to mute your microphone because that's a long time to not be able to make

any noise and I'm sure whether they are voluntarily or involuntarily

made.

Will be heard by our listeners, but but

Jennifer in Gardner Gardner Ville, Nevada.

Says, how would you compare Jonathan Edwards apologetic methodology to others

such as Van Till?

Gordon Clark Francis Schaefer or Edward Carnell and in your opinion.

Whose apologetic was most consistent with a biblical?

Anthropology very very wise.

Question from a very learned woman.

Which I have it and we will have you and I'm gonna forward you her email.

So you can have it right in front of you and you can answer that when we return.

If anybody else would like to join us on the air our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chris ar n z n gmail .com.

Please.

Give us a first name a city and state and country of residence.

Where you live outside?

If you live outside of the USA and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private

matter.

I will allow people to have pastoral questions for our guests since dr. Waddington is

a pastor so you can.

You can ask off -topic since we are talking about Edwards, but I'm not going to restrict anyone from

asking a pastoral question so I can understand a pastoral question being

Requested to remain on anonymous.

But otherwise, please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA don't go away.

God willing.

We will be right back after these messages with more of dr jeffrey c waddington and the unified operations of

the human soul.

Jonathan edwards theological anthropology and apologetic.

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not only the unified operations of the human soul Jonathan Edwards theological anthropology and apologetic and

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Country of residence.

And now I have to enlarge the question from Jennifer from Gardner Ville,

Nevada, so I can read it because I'm going blind.

And the question says How would you

compare Jonathan Edwards apologetic methodology to others such as Vantil Gordon Clark

Francis Schaeffer or Edward Carnell and in your opinion whose apologetic was most

consistent with a biblical.

Anthropology, well, that's a Detailed

question.

I am a Vantilian in terms of my approach to apologetics.

So that that's as I consider Edwards.

My perspective is is is that Vantil offers the best most biblical?

confessionally reformed consistent Form of apologetic.

That doesn't mean I can't learn from others with whom I have differences now.

Jennifer asked specifically how does Edwards compared to Vantil and Gordon Clark Francis

Schaeffer and EJ or Edward Carnell.

It is there.

Understandably Edwards was a reformed pastor theologian pastor apologist.

So they're going to be points of contact points of similarity.

It's interesting that Ava Chamberlain who as far as I know is not a believer.

She's one of the editors of the 26 volume Yale edition of the works of Edwards.

She says that Edwards argued for belief in in the biblical God

from the perspective of the truth of that doctrine.

In other words, he argued from belief in the biblical Triune God and not to it, which

is typically the classical method.

In my book I described the classical method which would be advocated by someone like BB

Warfield.

And.

John Gerstner and RC Sproul.

The others that Jennifer asked about are actually Clark Schaeffer and Carnell are

Variations of what is historically been called presuppositional Apologetic.

That that designation is not particularly helpful in more recent days the

expression covenantal apologetic has been Adopted and for lack of.

Anything better at this point?

That's 10th.

That's what I go with Gordon.

Clark is off van Till is often considered a revelational Presuppositionalist

and Clark and Schaeffer and Carnell are varieties of rational

presuppositionalist.

Edwards is None of those he's I'd say.

Depending on what you're reading.

He could look like Clark or Schaeffer or Carnell or Gerstner or Van Till.

He's eclectic.

He predate he historically predates the

hardened fast.

Distinctions we make between various schools of the ways of doing apologetics

evidentialism classical Presuppositional or covenantal apologetics reformed

epistemology.

Epistemology and cumulative case.

Those are the standard forms of doing apologetics and they obviously share many things in common.

But Edwards comes before the watershed of Immanuel Kant and.

And.

Gfw Hegel with two Relatively well -known German idealist philosophers who

by the way are also key To the rise of post -modernism, but that's another

another subject for a different day.

So Edwards in so far as he's arguing for

the unified operations of the human soul whether it be considered as fallen that is Every aspect

of human nature is fallen.

It's not as if the intellect is is somehow exempt from the fall.

It's not as if the will is somehow exempt from the fall.

The.

Professors at Old Princeton the early one Samuel Miller in our Archibald Alexander

embodied Edwards view by the way.

They shared the same view as did Warfield and as did old Princeton as a whole.

Their.

Anthropology, I would argue their apologetic didn't always match their understanding of their of

the human soul.

But they all understood the human soul as being not a hierarchical structure of intellect

will and emotions.

But but that they were all equally Created good

equally fallen in the fall equally being restored in In salvation

and the specifically in sanctification and then will one day be glorified.

And that affects how we do apologetics.

We don't Assume that that an intellectual argument by itself will win a

person.

It takes the Holy Spirit to do that and Edwards will say that over and over again.

So and that's I mean that that's the short the short answer to the question.

So he he looks like Each one of those apologists at different points, but I'd

say he's he's his own guy.

Insofar as he reflects his era.

There'll be much in common with van Till and you would have to be familiar with the whole development of reformed theology.

And what's now called reformed?

Scholasticism.

Did you for me to fill out the details?

Well, thank you Jennifer.

Excuse me.

What was that about?

The long answer to a relatively short question.

Oh, okay.

Well, it wasn't that short of a question actually I think the the depth of the question required the

response that you gave.

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for doing that.

And we have Gordy in the Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania who says RC Sproul considered

Jonathan Edwards freedom of the will the greatest piece of American literature ever published.

Would you agree with his Assertion.

And given the difficulty of reading much of Edwards writings.

Would Luther's bondage of the will be more digestible for the average reader?

But It's I would say freedom of the will is it took me two or

three readings before I finally, you know, it clicked.

Bondage of the will I think you would get in your first pass.

Edward Luther is anyone who's familiar with Luther his life and his writing style is very

energetic.

He's.

Well, both both books are actually There are there a debate with other other people.

Luther of course is debating Erasmus the the Dutch humanist Roman Catholic priest and

humanist scholar.

Bondage of the will by Luther is is just a wonderful book.

In its own right freedom of the will is much more philosophical.

You know a different different style.

But I would say freedom of the will is is one of those books that that is iconic and is

ignored more than it's addressed.

That's my and although it is being being addressed Recently

Because there are people for instance Richard Muller the great scholar at Calvin Theological Seminary in Grand

Rapids has Given a lecture that I think you can find online at the Jonathan Edwards Center

at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School where he says that that Edwards View

of the freedom of the will is different from the classical Reformed understanding.

It would take a lot to go a lot of time to explain all of that.

And there's been a full book published by someone following in his footsteps.

So it'll be interesting to see if what it influenced that may have Into the

assessment of Edwards, but freedom of the will is an iconic book.

But yeah the to answer the question Luther would be Probably for the average person in the pew

if there is such a person would be I Say both but start with Luther

and then go to Edwards.

Well, thank you Gordy.

And since you live in Mechanicsburg, why don't you swing by?

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service on North Hanover Street in in Carlisle, Pennsylvania since it's only

probably 10 minutes away from you why don't you swing by there on Monday and pick up your free copy of

The unified operations of the human soul by our guest Jeffrey C. Waddington.

They do not have them there yet.

In fact, they're already closed by now.

Anyway, so you'll have to go by Monday to get that.

Thanks a lot for contributing a great question.

Let's see.

Oh, by the way, we have a questioner that asks of you something that you are just

hinting at.

So you will have an opportunity?

Okay, we have RJ in White Plains, New York.

RJ says.

About a year or so ago you interviewed Walt Chantry the very well -known and

beloved Reformed Baptist one of the pioneers of Reformed Baptist thinking in the

United States in the mid 20th century and He said

during your interview that he radically disagreed with Jonathan Edwards understanding

of the freedom of the human will in fact laid Partially the blame

for the spread of Arminian ism in the United States to this view.

Can your guest please explain what?

Pastor Walt Chantry was speaking about and whether or not he disagree whether or not he agrees or disagrees

with pastor chantry's assertion and.

By the way.

Pastor Walt Chantry was these the second or third Pastor of the church where I am a member and he was

there the longest period of time having served there for 40 years.

But of course that doesn't mean that you have to agree with everything that he says or writes.

Just because he was a an iconic or is an iconic figure amongst Reformed Baptists.

But anyway, go ahead.

Well, I I don't know why he in particular Would

reject it Edwards.

Do you remember?

Chris.

He didn't really go into the issue at depth from what I recall.

It was quite a while ago.

It may have been two years ago.

I just remember I do remember him saying though that he he did

lay a part of the blame to the Switch over if

you will from Calvinism being a dominant view

Amongst Protestants to becoming a minority view.

He laid partially the blame for that in his opinion to Jonathan Edwards

understanding of the freedom of the will which he seemed to link more with.

Something compatible with Arminianism, but he didn't go into great depth about it.

Yeah, if it was it's not compatible with Arminianism at all.

In fact, that's what it's arguing against.

If I could.

Why would if you could include in your answer, why would he come to that conclusion or when also others?

Oh, I don't know anybody.

That's the first time I've ever heard someone actually attribute the rise of Arminianism to

Edwards freedom of the will when I would say it was the the busyness of evangelism on the part of

Freewill Baptists and Methodists, you know circuit riders.

Riding from town to town not requiring the level of education that typically reformed whether they be

Baptist or Presbyterian.

Or.

You know continental reformed require so that that's that is a

Multifaceted complex issue.

Oh.

I.

Can tell you that that there are some of the issues that come into play would be whether whether

Edwards Believed in the distinction between Creation

and Providence or primary and secondary causality.

So there are plenty of things that I might have I might pick at bones with with with Edwards.

Were he alive here and able to talk with me with us on the program?

I don't but I think the the larger argument that Edwards makes and freedom of the will is

Has never been refuted and with all due respect to the great Richard

Muller, I don't think what he's done refutes it either.

In fact, there's there's a fair bit of scholarship that I have on my computer which undermines his whole argument, but

that's.

Perhaps if we want to do a follow -up program at some time we could address that but of the I

suppose what.

A.

Reverend Chantry might have been talking about would be the fact that the followers of Edwards the ostensible

Followers of Edwards sometimes referred to as the New Divinity or New England theology.

They did Veer toward Arminianism, but not in the sense of being followers of

Arminius, but being not Calvinistic something like when we we watch the news

and and we're seeing something about the Middle East and.

They talk about Christians and Muslims and when they say Christians what they mean is not Muslim

or not Not Hindu or not Buddhist.

It's not referring to their spiritual condition, right?

Right.

Just so just like in Great Britain.

Christian really just meant you were in a you were an Englishman.

Exactly.

And so in this in this case the there were followers so -called followers of Edwards

Who ended up teaching the exact opposite of what Edwards believed.

And.

The Edwards writing not only in freedom of the will but his book on original sin and religious affections

and The end for which God created the world and the nature of true virtue.

These these are all interwoven. They form a cohesive whole and

I'd be curious Maybe you can act as an intermediary.

Chris is Reverend Chantry still alive.

Yes. Yes.

Okay, ask him what if you can ask him what he meant?

Well, in fact, I would love to have you on the program with him perhaps.

Yeah, no, that would be fine because I'd be I would be curious as to what he was getting.

All right.

Let me let me let me just say something that and I could be totally off base here.

But perhaps you could just flesh out what is like wandering through the sewers of my mind here.

I.

Seem to recall that there was some Disagreement that Edwards had with

some other reformed Believers about the the will over

the Ability issue.

Oh, yeah versus natural ability.

Yeah, like for instance, you know in in Romans 8 Where it's

clearly It's it's clearly Stated

that because the mind is set on the flesh It is hostile toward God for it does not subject itself to the law of

God for it is not even able to do so.

There I've thought that I remember hearing that Edwards took more of a view regarding

the affections of Non -believers not being conducive to coming to Christ

rather than an inability.

But I might be wrong on that if you could just know he would not.

But he wouldn't distinguish in the the two ways that you've talked about it.

He would say that those sweetly comply.

In other words when he talked about Not that we lack natural that the unbeliever the

fallen sinner doesn't lack Natural ability but

lacks moral ability now for him understand that moral and natural One is not less

Absolute than the other so to say that something is morally so In other words

the intellect still functions even though in the fallen sinner, right?

Not not not the way it was meant to in other words We are created to

you know, it's the Westminster shorter and larger catechism put it to Glorify God and to enjoy him

forever, right?

And so the the highest the highest thing that the intellect the human intellect can do is worship God and

To glorify him and to enjoy fellowship with him.

And when it's not when a human being is not doing that then the purpose for which God created

him is Not being fulfilled.

Now.

Just just a few moments ago you had mentioned that.

There were some that thought that Edwards had a different approach to the human will.

Then other reformed theologians.

What were you talking about that time?

Richard Muller says that the that Edwards view departs from the classic reformed view

which distinguishes between primary and secondary causality.

The necessity and contingency.

In fact, he does not this differ from that.

In in Doc, dr. Muller is a brilliant man and and we owe so much to

him in terms of learning about reformed Scholasticism that is the period those theologians who

came after the Reformers up until about the time of the Westminster divine shortly

thereafter that period of time of development of reformed doctrine is Referred to as reformed

scholasticism and the Westminster standards and the London Baptist Confession

all are examples of reformed scholasticism.

Okay, so and Edwards is the has inherited that.

And.

He it's if you cherry -pick a writer.

You're bound to be able to create a.

Frankenstein quite easily not now.

No, do you think that that could be where?

Well, I as I said, I better have Walt back on the show without that's not.

I'm not accusing him of that.

I'm I I do think that that dr. Muller Was reading

portions of Edwards and not the whole the whole thing and so he he made some

Accusations that Edwards denied secondary causality basically.

It's the common view that Edwards held to both Occasionalism and continuous

creationism seeing as we're in this quagmire.

We might as well make the most of it.

Edwards Continuous creationism is the idea that God recreates the world the universe every

moment.

Okay, and Occasionalism is is the view that God is the only agent

active agent in the universe.

You can see how those two doctrines if Edwards held them and If he did

and that's debated.

That's everything is debated in scholarly circles.

But that those two issues are debated or at least the nature if he held those views the

nature of them.

But you can see how that would undermine the distinction between the creation and Providence and he would

simply say well.

What's the difference between creation and Providence?

The creation is the first instance and Providence is the second third fourth and fifth and so on.

But Edwards does not deny secondary causality.

Okay, that's that's where I think Richard Muller runs afoul of his understanding of

his his Presentation his lecture is actually about 19th century or reception

of Edwards freedom of the will in Scotland.

Whole thing so it's a bit indirect.

He's actually dealing with like James William Cunningham.

And his his acceptance of Edwards freedom of the will.

All right.

Well, there it's a week.

It would be great to talk with Reverend Chantry and find out exactly.

What he had in mind, I don't know.

I've not met any Armenian whoever accredited Jonathan Edwards freedom of the will.

I Don't think that something becoming an Arminian.

Well, I don't think that an Arminian might necessarily do that himself.

I'm just saying that Walt was was Looking at the big picture.

He seemed to come to that conclusion and he did have some negative feedback from fellow reform Baptists on that.

But but but also Arminians though as you know, and please forgive me if you

think I'm broad -brushing I don't mean to but many Arminians.

Let me put it that way do as you were saying cherry -pick.

The greatest heroes of Calvinism and try to make Arminians out of them very often.

Like Charles Spurgeon is the greatest example of all of course.

Yeah, I mean which is a laughable when if you're familiar with see You know in -depth familiar with

with someone like Charles Spurgeon or Jonathan Edwards.

Again, these are not perfect men and and they're not always consistent With themselves

let alone with the Word of God in in the confessional heritage that we have.

But.

So that's it.

That's an interesting question I would say.

Freedom of the will.

The argument itself is is basically that there is no such thing as an as As an

Unmotivated act of the will.

All right, we're going to our final break right now.

Well, in fact, let me just read a brief question here from another listener.

We have oh.

We have pastor David Bissett from Clifton Park, New York.

Who says I met you at the banner of truth conference this week thought you resembled John Marshall of

the UK.

And I will have to find out what John Marshall looks like so I can know whether or not I should be insulted by that.

Great to finally get the chance to listen to the show online while catching up on my office here in upstate New York

enjoying your guest Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington as well.

Sorry, no question at present.

Oh, okay.

Well pastor Bissett if you have a question, please submit one before we run out of time.

It should say Chris before you jump.

But is that I'm from.

I grew up in the Albany, New York area and Clifton Park is just north of that below Saratoga,

so I'm I'm familiar with that neck of the woods.

Great.

Well.

Send us a question a pastor Bissett and Let me in fact give a plug to

Clifton Park Community Church.

There in upstate New York, the website is Clifton Park Community Church org, that's Clifton Park

Community Church org.

I always like to plug a good solid reformed church when I get an on -air question or comment

from a pastor.

We're going to our final break right now.

And if you'd like to join us email us at Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen of Iron sharpens iron radio if you just tuned us in.

Our guest has been for the last 90 minutes or more Dr. Jeffrey C.

Waddington who is going to be our guest for another 20 minutes or approximately.

We are now discussing the Jonathan Edwards encyclopedia edited

by Harry s stout and.

If you'd like to join us if you please send an email immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Tell us about this enormous volume the Jonathan

Edwards encyclopedia.

It is over 614 pages long.

Tell us about it.

Sure.

This came out I believe last December so it's been out for a few months.

It is unique in that it was Created by I guess what we call crowdsourcing

in other words The Jonathan Edwards Center at Yale University.

Which is the which is the center that handles a lot of handles the Yale edition of Edwards

works.

That's a Harry stout is the general editor for the Yale edition of the works of Edwards.

Adrian Neal is a Professor among other places at Puritan Reform Theological

Seminary in Grand Rapids that we talked about earlier an expert on reform scholasticism

that I mentioned so this this was a.

Emails were sent out to those in the Edwards a scholarly community about

the desire to put together an encyclopedia and.

And so they had a list of some I think was 2 ,000 or so

Subjects and we those of us who were interested had to

Sign up for a particular topic and we were given a deadline for when those topics

Entries had to be they we were given a word count And and

that word and then some articles were longer than others.

They had long medium and short basically depending on the subject matter and

so Over a period of two or three years or whatever the length of time was they finally gathered all of those

Together in this volume.

It's alphabetical.

And it covers pretty much everything related to Edwards in terms of theology biblical

studies political situations theological and philosophical

trends science.

Everything that would be relevant To the study of Edwards in one place.

It's a one -stop shopping experience if I can put it that way.

And I had the privilege of contributing four of the entries.

They were all one one and a half two page length Articles on

Calvinism the history of the work of redemption on the mind and the will.

So as you can see those were related to various interests of that I have

with regard to Edwards.

Yeah, this is.

Looks like it's a must -have for every pastor, especially.

Quite good.

It's as I said that one -stop shopping experience.

So it's it's the.

There are two other books that have that have been similar, but I think this is I think it can be

said That this is the most comprehensive and that's why it's called an encyclopedia.

It it covers Everything that in other words if you were wanting to introduce someone to the

thought of Edwards And that you knew that they were really Serious about it.

This would be the book that I would recommend they turn to and they're short.

They're brief as you can see.

Chris if you've got a copy and I think you do.

You can you see that the entries are not long.

Yes.

Well, we have a listener in Hilltop Lakes Texas.

Linda.

Dear Chris.

Jonathan Edwards is esteemed by the reformed community as America's greatest theologian.

However, by and large reformed people no longer hold to his eschatology.

Edwards stated he believed that the Great Awakening of the 1740s was a prelude to that glorious work of God

so often foretold in Scripture.

Edwards was the first to clearly articulate a post -millennial Eschatology

even if not by name.

It seems that other Puritans and reformers held this optimistic Eschatology.

The Civil War and war World Wars one and two burst the bubble for many.

But God's Word should be filtered through our experience.

We have the actual question that she has for you.

Does your research meaning you dr. Waddington.

On Jonathan Edwards confirmed that he Edwards in fact was post -millennial.

And do you think the renewed interest in the writings of Jonathan Edwards and other Puritans is bringing

about a renewed interest in his? eschatology.

Well that those are good questions.

I For the longest time thought that the Jonathan Edwards was a pure

Post -millennialist, that's the designation that that the world is getting increasingly Christianized

until the Lord comes back.

That's what post -millennialism means primarily.

And Edward in more recently more details have been filled in

in terms of the background behind Edwards view the

development of What I would call a post -millennialism with some pre -millennial

flavor Spices thrown in that's how I would describe it.

And there's there's a connection with a gentleman by the name of Joseph me, and he taught at either

Oxford or Cambridge I forget right now, and he was a well -known Commentator

on the on on Eschatology book of Revelation etc.

Became very influential amongst Independents in the UK and then that came

over to the colonies.

I.

Myself am an amillennialist or I would prefer to call it present reign millennialist.

Whether Edwards views renewed interest in Edwards generally is

contributing to a post -millennial Eschatology, I Don't see that

and it probably the one area where people disagree with him who are it who do

like Edwards.

This would be the one area where there's a consistent Disagreement with him.

And of course it's related to the whole question of Whether the the

Great Awakening was in fact a precursor to You know

the coming in of the kingdom the Christian ization of And that's all

tied into America what we call American exceptionalism.

See, there's an over and of course, that's an issue debated today, isn't it?

Yes is American Exceptional.

Well that that very question is built upon the the

For instance Edwards notion of the the role of America.

The now remember for Edwards is a Brit is British.

He's not he's he he sees himself as a citizen of the king as a loyal

citizen.

Now the question is would he have supported the revolution had he lived at the long enough to see it.

That's an interesting question.

It's pure speculation.

He and He did interact with the political leaders in Massachusetts.

He had regularly corresponded with the governor with the secretary what we would call the state secretary

of the Commonwealth The colonies and etc.

So he was he he knew the movers and shakers in the in the political realm in his day.

Being.

Called the last Puritan.

I'm assuming he would have had his radical opposition in some ways to the state

church of.

England certainly.

He was not an Anglican By any stretch nor a Roman Catholic.

I mean it those those things are pretty straightforward in Edwards.

So yeah, he's the he is a he is a congregationalist although he.

Not to be confused with modern -day Congregationalism, which although although there are excellent

Savoy declaration loving Congregationalists today there are they are very rare and

most of our most of them are totally apostate in the United Church of Christ.

The no, he's he's it and he ended up Being president of Princeton, which was a

Presbyterian institution.

Then he said, you know after his deposition from the pulpit in Northampton getting kicked out.

He said, you know, I actually kind of like that Presbyterian form of government as opposed to the chaotic stuff we

have in New England and of course that I'm sure was highly colored by his by his experience

of being let go from the the ministry in Northampton, Massachusetts.

That's a that those are I was going to say.

Chris the questions that I've been getting it it's reminds me of a.

A.

Poster that was on the door of the the late. Dr Harvey Kahn a professor of missions at Westminster.

And it was a mock test and.

And the I often asked myself is this a mock test in the sense of being this is a

pretend test.

Or is it mocking me?

Here was the question.

Give a history of the world from creation till now.

But.

State.

Post -millennial, by the way, Jeff.

Are you there because you you have to you have to repeat everything you said because we lost connection moment.

Very.

Temporarily lost connection and I apologize for that.

It was my no, that's okay.

I was just say did you okay?

I I was you you heard the part about the the mock test, right?

That's the last thing I think I heard.

Oh, okay.

Well the mock test the question was Give a brief history.

I'll give a history of the world from creation till the present.

Include every salient detail relevant detail, but be concise.

Yeah, that's that's that that's the question that that that's how I feel answering these questions because

it's the you could actually get a Whole college level course or book out of each of these questions.

No the answer I mean you could.

Actually, this is actually a compliment to our listeners then.

Yeah, I really is.

These are these have all been very good questions.

And.

This is where some of this would be answered in the encyclopedia.

Now I now I should say about the encyclopedia is that because it's a it's a mix I know

several of the contributors they're friends of mine or acquaintances of mine and I can speak to them but it's a

it's not everybody who contributes as the Christian or professed Christian right.

Just because that.

That's the heart of.

The history on Edwards and the documented Writings and history of Edwards is in Yale,

which is largely an apostate.

University, I mean and this is true with even John Calvin all the great theologians for

some reason are Attractive to people who don't make any profession of faith and

very often when you read them They've reduced.

What is what is a magnificent?

Glimpse into the biblical teaching on whatever topic and they reduce it to.

I don't know.

Form literary form like the sermons of Edwards are often studied for their literary

contributions.

Freedom of the will can be Looked at as purely, you know iconic in the sense of.

What was its influence in in American culture?

And that's why I said more ignored than then debated.

You know mentioned in passing not really gauged.

Well, by the way Linda in Hilltop Lakes, Texas you have won.

In fact, you're the only one that can win a Free copy of the Jonathan Edwards

encyclopedia which retails for $60.

This is a hardback gorgeous book and because of the price

the retail price Eerdmans only gave me two copies one for me and one for a co -host

and my co -host Did not show up today.

He could not be here even though he would love to be here.

He could not be here so you're getting his copy of the Edwards encyclopedia and I want to just.

I know this may embarrass Linda from Hilltop Lake, Texas, although I've never met her in my life and never even spoken

audibly with her.

She and her husband were kind enough to pay the electric bill for iron sharpens iron radio not long ago.

And I just cannot thank you and your husband Glenn Enough for your generosity and your

benevolence and your kindness and your encouragement because you love this show so much.

And make sure that we have your full mailing address in Hilltop Lakes, Texas, and you will receive this free over

600 page hardback Encyclopedia the Jonathan Edwards encyclopedia retailing for $60.

It's yours free Linda.

Thank you so much.

Now we have an actual question, this is the last question we have time for.

I mean an actual question.

I mean an actual question from pastor David Bissett who before didn't have a question.

He was just saying hi, basically and now he says I love the Jonathan Edwards

discussion.

My question is what is your meaning?

Dr. Jeffrey C Waddington, what is your estimation of the biography by Marsden?

Ah.

Good question.

I think it's probably the best thing out there I remember biography of

Jonathan Edwards.

Yes.

It's a came out in 2003 the 300th anniversary of Edwards birth.

It's the there is a short one a little one a short life.

I think it's called the subtitle.

This is the word.

I believe he's probably talking about the full length.

Several hundred page biography well written well researched.

I disagree with dr Marsden of course at points, but but it's it's beautifully

Written and I think it captures the essence of Edwards in its historical setting.

Which is what Marsden?

Dr. Marsden was trying to do so.

He makes him understandable in his own context is what I'm saying.

And well written and easy I think fairly easy to track with.

Well, we are out of time and thank you so much.

Pastor David J Bissett.

Please give us your full mailing address there in Clifton Park, New York.

So we can mail you a free copy of the unif the unified operations of the human soul Jonathan

Edwards theological anthropology and Apologetic and dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington.

Can you please give our listeners?

The website for Knox Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Lansdowne, Pennsylvania.

You would ask me that I don't know.

I have you do have not a Knox dash Presbyterian org, and that's KN OX dash

Presbyterian org.

And for those of you who want to listen to the reformed forum as my pastor John Miller of Grace

Baptist Church of Carlisle Pennsylvania does regularly go to the reformed forum org reformed

forum org and if you want to find out more about

The confessional Presbyterian Journal go to CP journal calm.

CP journal calm.

Do you have any final words before we go off the air brother?

Oh.

Just to say that that I have been drawn to Jonathan Edwards because He

heralds the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And there's not a time that I dip into Edwards that I don't.

Almost always I don't want to say always but almost always come away with a greater Appreciation of my Lord and

Savior Jesus Christ and at the end of the day that that's the paint.

That's the payoff.

Well, I am so delighted that you were able to be on the show today Even though there was a schedule a mix -up

between the two of us.

And I look forward to the next time you being here in the studio so that we can actually share fellowship Before

and after the show.

Thank you for having me and I want you all to have a blessed and safe and Joyful

weekend and Lord's Day, and I hope you all Always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus

Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.