June 14, 2023 Show with Joel Saint on “Calling Homosexuals to Repentance is an Act of Love”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father

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James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister

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George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

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This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 14th day of June, 2023.

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I'm so thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest who is also a new sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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His name is Joel Saint, and he is pastor of Independence Reform Bible Church of Morgantown, Pennsylvania, and chairman of Mid -Atlantic

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Reformation Society. Today we're going to be addressing the theme, Calling Homosexuals to Repentance Is an

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Act of Love, Love for God, Love for His Word, Love for Our Neighbors, and Love for Those Enslaved to Their Homosexuality.

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We're also going to be announcing an upcoming outreach to the LaTitz Pennsylvania Pride Festival and also a three -day event coming up in September in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, featuring

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Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Joel Saint.

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Are you there, Joel? Can you hear me, Joel? I hear dead silence.

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Now I've got you. Now I've got you. It's great to be back.

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I'm messing with my computer screen here. I finally hit the right button. All right. Thank you. Well, tell our listeners about Independence Reform Bible Church of Morgantown, Pennsylvania.

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Yeah, indeed. And again, yeah, once again, thanks so much for having me today,

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Chris. And yes, this is our 10th year. We have been at the Independence Reform Bible Church for 10 years.

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We meet at the Council of the Christian School right outside of Morgantown, Pennsylvania. And there are about 120 folks there that meet together, and we preach the whole counsel of God as it applies to all of life, society, education, media.

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The Bible speaks to all these issues, therefore we speak to them. I have had some people say, well, you shouldn't bring politics in the pulpit, and my response is, well, it's already in the

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Bible, so if I'm going to preach the Bible, then I better preach it from the pulpit. And tell us about Mid -Atlantic

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Reformation Society. Yeah, the Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society has been around for about the same amount of time.

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We formed the Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society in order to address – and this was actually before, so it's actually one or two years before, thinking about it before the church existed – but we formed it to help church folks address issues that the

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Bible addresses that they generally don't want to or feel inadequate to address.

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For example, we're talking about things like criminal justice, or even things like Christian foreign policy, sound, honest money, these type of things.

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These are things the Bible addresses, many churches don't address, and so that's why we formed the Mid -Atlantic

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Reformation Society. We now sponsor conferences, and this year we're excited about sponsoring a conference which

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Chris, you've helped us out on an awful lot. It's called The Gospel at War.

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It's going to be held in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, and of course we have a real exciting guest that maybe,

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I don't know, you're probably better at talking about him than I am, but either way, we're thrilled to have James White. Amen.

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Well, James White, I'd be shocked if anybody listening to my show is unfamiliar with him, especially since most of my listeners have come from him recommending

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Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio on his webcast, The Dividing Line.

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But he is a Reformed Baptist, he's an apologist, he's a New Testament Greek scholar, he's an author of numerous books, he is an accomplished debater, well over 100 debates now,

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I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 or more debates, all kinds of debates. He has debated

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Roman Catholics, he has debated liberal Protestants, he has debated members of cults, he has debated

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Muslims, he has debated homosexuals, and he has had in -house, friendly, collegiate debates with Brethren in Christ, such as the divide between Reformed Baptists and Presbyterians on the paedo -baptist or infant baptism issue, and I could go on and on with his accomplishments, but I know of no other man on the planet

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Earth who has his debating skills, and I'm also, as you know, trying to set up a debate as a part of that conference, but I don't know if I will be successful, only

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God knows right now. But that two -day conference will be held Friday and Saturday, September 15th and 16th, and he's also preaching for you on the 17th, am

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I not correct there? We're looking forward to hearing from him on the 17th, preaching in our service, that's correct.

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Yes, so we will keep you updates because we're still in the process of trying to find a venue for the two -day conference, but it is hopefully going to be in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

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There's a slim possibility that it may wind up being in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where I am, but we will let you know, and the best website for you to keep checking for more details, more updates on that, is futureofchristendom .org,

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futureofchristendom .org, and by the way, if you want more information about Independence Reformed Bible Church in Morgantown, Pennsylvania, go to irbc .church,

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irbc .church, and for more details on the Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society, go to midatlanticreformation .org,

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midatlanticreformation .org. Now this theme that we are addressing today, calling homosexuals to repentance is an act of love, this is really coming from the fact that you have this outreach, and I've just been corrected by a listener,

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I mispronounced the city, I now understand, according to this listener, it's

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Lidditz, or am I right, is that Lidditz? You are correct, you nailed it,

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Lidditz, exactly. Well, I didn't nail it the first time, though. So you are having an outreach to the

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Lidditz Pennsylvania Pride Festival, and if you could tell us exactly what is occurring at this

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Pride Festival, and why you felt the need to have an outreach to it.

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Yeah, a lot of my motivation comes from Spurgeon, actually, who talked extensively about preaching and proclaiming out of doors.

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In fact, Spurgeon says that there's actually more justification for preaching out of doors in the

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Scriptures than there is even indoors. Interestingly enough, and he asked the question, where would

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John the Baptist be, for example, if there's no such thing as preaching out of doors? So we have an opportunity now to speak to folks who are coming together,

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I mean, this is a horrible thing, it's an abominable thing, to come together and celebrate sin and wickedness.

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Bad enough to commit sin and wickedness where you can't see it, worse yet to commit it where you can see it, worse even than that to celebrate it.

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And that's what these Pride events are, they are a celebration of sin. There's just no other way to say that.

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So they come together themselves, and it gives us an opportunity to speak to people,

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Chris, who are not lining up, shall we say, to come to Independence Reform Bible Church. But they're there, and we're going to go speak to them, and we're going to minister the gospel, we are going to tell them about the

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Christ who came to give life and to give it more abundantly. And when is that happening?

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That is happening this Saturday, it's the 17th of June there in Lyttots, and the event starts at 10 o 'clock, excuse me, and goes till 6 o 'clock.

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And we plan to be there to pass out tracts and engage in conversation and introduce the

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Lord Jesus Christ and His word to the attendees and the passersby. And for more details on that, go to irbc .church

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forward slash Godislove, all lowercase, irbc .church

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forward slash Godislove. And the thing that is disturbing, increasingly disturbing about homosexual activists is that I'm old enough, 61,

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I'm old enough to remember when the rhetoric of homosexual activists and the advocates of homosexuals from the liberal wing of the political arena, whether they're

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Democratic or Republican, but the rhetoric used to be homosexuals want to be treated equally with heterosexuals, they want to be left alone, they want to have everyone treat them with the respect of their privacy, what they do in their bedrooms behind closed doors is no one else's business.

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But all of that is just straight out the window. Today, we are being told, you must not only tolerate our existence, you must celebrate our existence among you.

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We are going to flaunt our behavior, our sexual behavior in the sight of your children.

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We are going to look for every opportunity possible to indoctrinate your children to normalize what we do in their eyes so they are further insured to grow up celebrating this depravity and even exploring it in their own lives sexually.

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So they have come a long way, haven't they? Indeed, they have.

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One of the reasons why we want to be out there is, I mentioned earlier Christ saying,

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I have come that they might have life and that they might have it more abundantly, and of course Christ contrasts that with the thief doesn't come except for to steal and to kill and to destroy.

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One of the things that Christ was big on, he was big on children. Whenever Christ talks about children, he speaks to them in a very loving way, and he also speaks in a very threatening way, if I can say it that way, of those who would harm children, thinking of whoever would offend one of these little ones, it'd be better for him if a millstone were thrown around his neck and thrown into the water.

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Now that's quite a statement there. I know we often think, Chris, of it's like, well, it would be better for the child, but actually

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Christ says, no, do that guy a favor, but put a millstone around his neck and throw him in the sea.

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Why? Because it's that important that you don't offend the children, and yet this is a celebration of offense towards children.

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Chris, I've been to these events in the past, and you'll see people bringing little children into these things, which obviously the homosexual community, in order to spread their horrible ideas, they need children because they cannot have them themselves.

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So this is an important thing for us to be out there with these folks and to share with them the gospel, let them know that what they're doing is wrong according to the

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King of Kings, the King of the universe, and at this point, they can bow to him as Lord and Savior, but they will bow to him at one point, now or later, but bow they will, and the time to bow is definitely now to Christ, because right now, while we're alive on this earth, we can embrace him as Savior, otherwise we will meet him as judge.

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Now one thing that obviously we have to make clear, just in case there are people who want to volunteer with you in your outreach, conservative

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Christians have had a stain on our reputation because of the conduct of some, a tiny minority, but there are some who identify as being conservative

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Christians who have no interest in leading homosexuals to Christ.

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Their primary goal and purpose in life seems to just appear wherever there are a large number of homosexuals gathered in a public place to mock them and to, you know, use ad hominems,

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God hates fags, of course I'm talking about Westboro Baptist Church, which became notorious for that, and they spread their rhetoric to even include the military and all kinds of other groups, not just exclusively homosexuals, but this strategy, this approach, this is not even anywhere close to resembling

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Christian conduct. If you have seen the films and the TV footage and the news footage of these folks, they are delighted with beaming smiles to inform homosexuals that they are going to burn in hell.

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You never see them pleading with them to repent. You never see any heartfelt compassion exuding from them.

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They have no interest in leading these people to Christ. They want them to burn in hell, and they are exuberant and giddy about that.

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That is a reflection of an unregenerate heart, isn't it? You know what,

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I believe it is. If we could understand, I think it was Bunyan that said that there is enough sin even in our prayers to send us to hell.

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Do any of us understand the great offense that we are without Christ to God, or do we think that there is somehow something good in us and we don't really need grace?

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But I don't see how you could delight in the destruction of your neighbor in the sense of not even knowing what the destruction looks like.

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Who knows exactly what hell looks like? But how can you delight in the destruction of going to hell for your neighbor if you've experienced grace yourself?

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And I'll just throw something else in here. It might be a little controversial here, but I have to wonder about Westboro Baptist Church, to be honest with you,

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Chris. I can't figure out why they keep on getting away with stuff.

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They win their lawsuits. They don't seem to face the sanctions that other less offensive groups tend to face.

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I don't know. To me, Westboro Baptist Church is doing a whole lot more for the homosexual message than they are for the message of Christ.

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Yes, and according to Ezekiel, God's breathed word, breathed out word in Ezekiel 33, which is also repeated in 2nd

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Peter and in Titus, God says, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

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These people have an enormous abundance of pleasure in the death of the wicked, and they themselves are wicked.

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They don't recognize that, but they just love telling homosexuals that they're going to hell.

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Obviously, you and I believe firmly that unrepentant homosexuals are going to hell and unrepentant fornicators and adulterers who are heterosexual are going to hell.

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But we announce that with great sadness in our hearts.

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We announce this, especially when we are telling loved ones that we know personally.

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We are heartbroken over this. We're not smiling and laughing, as we say this, and carry signs and parade around laughing like witches.

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This is a really disturbing phenomenon, and it's interesting to note that the original pastor, the founding pastor, who is deceased now of Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, Fred Phelps, he, believe it or not, a lot of people don't know this, he was an attorney, a civil rights attorney for a

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Gail Sears. Remember Gail Sears, the football player? Chicago Bears.

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Yes, he was arrested for protesting. I don't remember where the school was.

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It was a college, I believe, that was segregated racially back in the 60s.

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And Fred Phelps defended Gail Sears in court when he was arrested for that.

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But in spite of that very noble pursuit for justice on the behalf of Gail Sears, he became a very wicked man.

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And I shudder to think where he is spending eternity now, unless he repented.

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I know that he was excommunicated by his own church because he apparently was telling the congregants of his church, which were primarily made up of his own biological relatives, that they had to be more loving toward one another.

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Excommunicated him for that. But share with us, in fact, before you do that,

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I'm going to go to a commercial break because I don't want to interrupt you mid -sentence. But think about this question, what do you envision is going to take place as far as your activity and your outreach to the

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Lititz Pennsylvania Pride Festival and what you think should be elements, primary elements, whenever Christians are involved in something like that.

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And we'll have you respond to that when I return from the first commercial break. If anybody would like to ask my guest,

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Joel St., a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail dot com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence.

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If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Let's say you are a homosexual and you are starting to feel pangs of guilt over the way you are living.

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You are starting to recognize that you are living in rebellion against God. And if you do not repent, you will spend an eternity in hell.

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And you have some kind of question to ask about that. Well, we understand if you are in that position that you might want to remain anonymous or perhaps you disagree with your own church in their manner of outreach to the homosexuals in your community or their lack of it or whatever the question that that may compel you to remain anonymous.

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We will grant your request. But please, if it's just a general question, give us your first name, at least your city and state in your country of residence.

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Don't go away. We'll be right back with Pastor Joel Saint of Independence Reform Bible Church of Morgadown, Pennsylvania, and chairman of Mid -Atlantic

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Reformation Society, right after these messages from our sponsors. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia, again for the

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And don't forget to mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharp and Zion Radio. We are now back with my guest,

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Joel St. Pastor of Independence Reformed Bible Church of Morgantown, Pennsylvania and chairman of Mid -Atlantic

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Reformation Society. We are discussing calling homosexuals to repentance is an act of love, love for God, love for his word, love for our neighbors and love for those enslaved to their homosexuality.

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Our email address is ChrisArnzen at Gmail .com. If you have a question of your own,

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ChrisArnzen at Gmail .com gives the first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. So picking up where we left off, Joel, what exactly are the kinds of things that you should be that you will be doing in your outreach to the

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Lititz Pride Day Festival? And what kind of things do you strongly recommend and counsel other

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Christians when they are involved in similar activity? What kinds of things should they be doing? Yeah, great question.

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So so let's address that. And what do what do we expect to do? What do we want to do? We want to present the problem and the solution.

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The problem is that mankind, every one of us born is born in rebellion against God.

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We are not OK with God. We don't have peace with God. The only way we can get peace with God is through the

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Lord Jesus Christ. And we need to explain the problem. You are lost without Christ.

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But the solution is Christ. You must believe in Christ. That is how you can understand that.

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That's how you can know that you're going to spend eternal with him. That's how you can know you can have eternal life.

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And even here, you can have life and have it even more abundantly. You know, one of the one of the discussions

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I've gotten into with some of these folks, Chris, oddly enough, or maybe not oddly enough, is a discussion over meaning.

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And I've consistently been told by folks at pride events that are celebrating this.

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I've consistently been told that there is no such thing as meaning. This is a consistent theme,

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Chris, which is a self -contradictory statement, of course. You know, I mean to say there's no such thing as as meaning.

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And these folks are lost. They don't they don't have Christ. And many of them have great pain.

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And we're there to tell them of a Christ who died for sinners. And they need to put their faith and their trust in him.

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That's that's one of the things that we I mean, that's where we start. But there's another thing I want to point out, and that is this.

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You can be expected to be yelled at, cursed at, screamed at, mocked. All those things will will likely happen.

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But what we will. Yeah, go ahead. And possibly even physically assaulted, as we've seen recently when there were parents protesting that drag queens were participating in children's activities and that children that parents were refusing to give in to their children's preferences for pronouns and gender identity.

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And because of this gathering that took place where there are parents present protesting this antifa showed up and along with other homosexual activists, they actually were physically assaulting parents.

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Yeah. And we've seen even in the case of Loudoun County there in northern

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Virginia, where a father was apparently arrested for opposing the rape of his daughter, of a self -identifying female.

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It was actually a male in the bathroom. So, yes, these kind of things can happen.

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We know that we're not the first. We know that wherever Paul went in the book of Acts, pretty much somebody seemed to get hurt.

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Sometimes it was Paul. Sometimes it was somebody else. But our Lord went to the cross for us.

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Do we really love him and love our neighbor or do we not? And so we we can expect we can expect to be opposed.

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We can expect to be mocked. But honestly, Chris, unless all this has happened to me.

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But I mean, thinking about that, I've never been physically assaulted. But you think about what I've had to endure compared to what

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Christ had to endure. And you can't put them in the same category. It's nothing.

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Amen. And do you have any tracks that you recommend that you're going to be handing out?

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We will be handing out a track called Good Teacher or God Incarnate.

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By a man by the name of Charles Leiter. And it's a it's a trifold.

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It's filled with scripture. And it gives you a great outline to explain to someone the problem and the solution.

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And the problem is it's the it's the wrath of God. And you know what,

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Chris? It's the justified wrath of God. It's not like God is just an angry judge and he doesn't know what else to do.

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We have offended him. We have seriously offended him and our neighbor.

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And he's a good God. He's a loving God. He sent his own son delivered to deliver us from his justified.

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And I emphasize that word, his justified wrath. What what a savior. No, Chris, no other religion has a say.

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You know, other religions have us dying for for their God. Christianity has

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God dying for his people. What a savior. Amen.

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If it hasn't been done already, some Christian gifted at writing should come up with a tract specifically for the kind of event you are participating in with the title something like.

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Some Christians were once homosexuals, too, because as we all know, who are familiar with our scriptures, there is a very profound portion of the

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Apostle Paul's letter to the church in Corinth. And this after Paul lists.

38:22

All kinds of people who will be damned if they don't repent.

38:29

And homosexuals are just a portion of those people. There are quite a number of other different types of sins listed that send people to hell without the blood of Christ.

38:44

But Paul, he goes from the bad news to the good news in First Corinthians, chapter six, verse 11.

38:53

And he says, in reference to, as I was just saying, things like homosexuals and so on, such were some of you.

39:04

But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the

39:10

Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of God. This truth, this

39:15

God breathed truth. Will be used of God with certainty in the lives and hearts and minds of his elect who are currently in a state of unrepentance and still are living a homosexual lifestyle.

39:35

And I hate to use that word lifestyle as a death style. But even though you may proclaim that truth hundreds or thousands of times over a lifetime to those who are a part of what they call the homosexual community and you may see zero results eventually when

39:57

God's elect here, that wonderful promise. Eventually, God is going to melt their hearts and replace those hearts of stone with hearts of flesh and breathe the

40:09

Holy Spirit into them. And they will walk in newness of life and they will be former homosexuals, just as some of these folks who were in the crowd gathered to hear what

40:24

Paul was saying. Such were some of you, but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the

40:32

Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God. Don't you think that's a good idea to have a track that actually focuses on that powerful and precious text?

40:41

Absolutely. I mean, it sounds like a very focused message. You know, the message we have in the track called

40:48

Good Teacher or God Incarnate focuses on a more general audience. But the subcut subtitle is many think that Jesus was a great teacher, but they don't know what he taught.

41:01

And then all throughout the track is what Jesus Christ taught about himself and about our need to believe in him for eternal life.

41:10

That sounds like it's somewhat reflective. Now, I know that C .S.

41:15

Lewis had a lot of problems with his theology, but one of his greatest statements, and I'm paraphrasing, was that Jesus Christ was either a lunatic, a liar, or Lord.

41:26

You cannot have it both ways where he was a great man and a great scholar or a great mentor of people, a great human being, without him having the logic forced upon us that if he is not

41:49

God, if he is not Lord, he is a lunatic or a liar. Because he said those things in his own word.

41:58

He identified as deity. He accepted worship unto himself and so it is clear that you cannot play the game of many people who are either liberal or members of non -Christian religions who are too intimidated to publicly vilify

42:20

Jesus Christ. So they just present a Jesus Christ of their own creation who is just a wonderful good man, but not deity.

42:30

Is that something where along the lines of where that author of that track is coming from? No question about that.

42:37

And that really even flows over to us, too. Because honestly, if Christ was not the way, the truth, and the life,

42:45

Chris, if there was another way to gain salvation and come to God the

42:51

Father, then I would say that Christ himself really is, was perhaps a lunatic.

42:57

I mean, why would he come down from heaven, die that horrific death, embarrassing, painful death, all that he gave up, if there was another way to be saved?

43:07

If you could be saved by, I don't know, traveling to Mecca or giving alms to the poor or meditating until you realize that all the world was illusion or whatever.

43:18

Chris, if there was another way to be saved, why would I believe in a Christ who came down from heaven and didn't even have to?

43:26

I mean, he would be a lunatic and we, frankly, we would be lunatics for even believing in him.

43:31

But there was no other way. God the Father, his justified wrath on sinners had to be placated and either we were going to suffer or his son was going to suffer.

43:44

And he sent his son to die for his people. Again, I sound like a broken record.

43:50

What a Savior. Amen, hallelujah, what a Savior. You informed me recently about a young man,

44:00

I believe, not far from where I'm sitting, in the

44:07

Redding, Pennsylvania area, who was arrested for being involved in some kind of a gospel outreach to homosexuals.

44:15

Am I correct on this? That is correct. It happened about, let's see, would be less than a week ago.

44:23

This past Saturday it happened. He was out testifying. He was across the street from the so -called celebration and he barely said anything.

44:34

He wanted to say, he began to say God is not the author of confusion. He had a sign that said, go and sin no more.

44:41

That's what his sign said. And as soon as he said the word God, a police officer turned to him, slapped the cuffs on him, kept him in lockup until the pride event was over.

44:54

So the police officer effectively stopped the presentation of the gospel until the pride event, so -called pride event was over.

45:03

And he was treated roughly. The police officer had no case because the

45:09

DA has now looked at the case and decided not even to prosecute. So it was an unlawful arrest.

45:15

And he was arrested for preaching the gospel at one of these events. And this is, Chris, I think this is all the more reason why we need to get out there.

45:23

Because Chris, we don't have, basically we don't have entertainment as Christians.

45:29

We don't have influence there. Don't have a whole lot of influence in media, but we still have influence.

45:35

We can still get out on the street. We can still speak in the public places.

45:40

And it seems to me we must do that while we still can. Because if God were to take away our freedom to speak publicly when we're not speaking publicly anyway,

45:51

I mean, why should we even maintain our freedom if we're not even gonna use it? So now's the time more than ever to get out and speak up and say what needs to be said, much like many of the

46:03

New Testament apostles did, Old Testament prophets, Christ himself, certainly Peter and Paul all did this, spoke publicly.

46:13

Now, what was the reason given by the police officers when they were arresting this young man?

46:22

And according to the Lancaster Patriot, his name is

46:29

Damon Atkins. And according to this article in the

46:35

Lancaster Patriot, it took less than 60 seconds of standing on a sidewalk for him to be placed in handcuffs and arrested for quoting a portion of a

46:45

Bible verse. How on earth could these police officers, as liberal and left -wing as they may be,

46:52

I don't know what political or religious ideology they may have or worldview, but do you know of the reason they were giving this young man when they were placing handcuffs on him?

47:06

Yeah, you know what? I saw the complaint. Don't have it in front of me. It was something like disturber of the peace with intent to do harm, something like that, which

47:18

I mean, I'm always concerned about intent when it comes to any kind of an arrest.

47:25

What do you mean intent? How do you know? The police officer had already denied him his

47:30

Second Amendment rights by actually the people he was with, because Damon just showed up.

47:36

He had just shown up and began to preach. But what happened was some other people who were opposing this were chased to the other side of the street.

47:47

There was no reason to do that whatsoever. It was public property, so they had already complied with the officer's request to go to the other side of the street.

47:56

So there they are on the other side of the street, and then, oh, it turns out they're not allowed to say anything once they're on this other side of the street.

48:04

What do you mean they were violating his First Amendment rights? Did I say second? Yes, you did. Excuse me. I know that you're a big

48:10

Second Amendment guy, as I am. Excuse me, first. And the thing that is scary in the 21st century, at this point in the 21st century, is that liberals used to champion the

48:25

First Amendment. They were probably a louder voice for freedom of speech than conservatives were.

48:35

And now you have the concept of liberalism, even though people may still use that term to identify themselves, it is vanishing.

48:45

It's really being overtaken by leftist totalitarianism, where they do not want open dialogue and discourse between differing views.

48:57

They don't want everyone to have an equal say in the public square and in the arena of worldview and ideology discussions.

49:09

They want to silence everyone who disagrees with them, which obviously is going to be even a great problem for them because the left is not a monolith.

49:20

They have all different kinds of disagreements amongst themselves. And it's always a good thing to see them devouring each other.

49:30

But at the same time, there are people who are constantly in our day and age being treated like vile, ruthless, dangerous criminals when all they are doing is acting upon not only the

49:48

God -given right that they have, but the constitutional right that they have as American citizens to publicly declare their beliefs.

49:57

So this is really a spooky day and age. No, indeed it is.

50:02

And the officer himself should certainly be fired. He certainly should not have a badge and a gun.

50:10

Anyone who's that confident of opposing someone's First Amendment rights should not be in a position of any kind of authority whatsoever.

50:20

Yeah, in fact, according to the photograph I'm watching, it's a male officer with two female officers standing right near him while he's putting the cuffs on the gentleman,

50:34

Mr. Atkins. But there are people who say, in fact, let me even be more specific.

50:50

There are brothers and sisters in Christ who say that our duty is to just preach the gospel and not be involved in these public activities such as either being involved in our own demonstrations or responding to the demonstrations of others.

51:17

They will say this is not the loving, compassionate approach to bring the homosexual to Christ.

51:25

And they will use every excuse to act as if this is a political activity.

51:35

Now, you've already said that you're not opposed to Christians being involved in political activity or bringing up politics in the pulpit.

51:42

But at the same time, this totally transcends politics, doesn't it? Well, these same people would say very quickly that the church was wrong to not do more to oppose say channel slavery in the 17th, 18th, and even 19th centuries.

52:01

Well, wait a minute, is that a political issue or is that a love your neighbor issue?

52:08

For example, take abortion. Some people say that's a political issue. We don't wanna speak to that.

52:13

Well, wait a minute, is that not a love your neighbor type of an issue?

52:19

And see, here's the thing. If John 3, 16 was all we needed, then that would be all we have.

52:26

But the Bible speaks extensively to the job of the civil magistrate to protect the life and property of his neighbor.

52:36

That's the job of the civil magistrate. It's not to make sure that you squeeze money out of people.

52:41

That's not the job. No, we have the state in order to punish evildoers and the state has the power of the sword to administer capital offenses or the punishment for capital offenses.

52:57

You know, this thing of just preaching the gospel. My friend, Pastor Matt Truella says this.

53:03

He says, you know, he says, no one says just preach the gospel when it's time to organize the church potluck.

53:09

You know, try that next time. Someone said, hey, we're gonna have a potluck. You know, who's bringing what? Stand up and say, no, no, no.

53:15

No, we just preach the gospel. Or how about like organize a church softball team?

53:23

Just try it. No, no, no, no, no. We can't play soft. We're just here to preach the gospel. And yet then when people do actually promote what the

53:30

Bible has to say to the civil magistrate, now suddenly we've discovered just preach the gospel.

53:36

What is going on, Chris? Right, and we have to go to our midway break right now. Please be patient with us because the midway break is always a bit longer than the other breaks in the show.

53:46

So please write down as much of the contact information provided by as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers and also send in your questions to Joel St.

53:58

to chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away.

54:03

We'll be right back with Joel St. after these messages from our sponsors. ♪

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Oh hail the power of Jesus Christ ♪

01:02:07

This is Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

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Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio financially.

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

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01:09:07

Before I return to my guest today, Joel Saint, on our theme on calling homosexuals to repentance as an act of love,

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I just have some important announcements to make. First of all, folks, if you really love this show and you do not want it to disappear from the airwaves,

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Independence Reformed Bible Church of Morgantown, Pennsylvania. Well, no matter where on the planet

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Earth you live, I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches, and I've helped many people in our audience all over the world find churches.

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I just found a church in Perth, Australia for the second time in Perth, Australia, for a listener in that area, which happens to be a church that my church here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Grace Baptist Church, planted in Perth, Australia.

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Well, and I could go on and on. I found churches for listeners in Africa and in England and in Ireland and in Northern Ireland and all 50 states of the

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and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Joel St.,

01:13:16

pastor of Independence Reformed Bible Church of Morgantown, Pennsylvania, and chairman of Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society.

01:13:22

As we continue to address calling homosexuals to repentance as an act of love, our email address is

01:13:27

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

01:13:33

And we have an anonymous listener who has a question for you, Pastor Joel.

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The anonymous listener says, Do you have any counsel as a man of God and a pastor to help

01:13:47

Christians prevent themselves from acting in kind when they are being physically or just verbally and mentally assaulted with all kinds of hateful speech?

01:14:05

Sometimes even the best of Christians might be very tempted to just return hateful speech since you've been had it hurled at you.

01:14:14

So how do you recommend we keep our cool and remain with a godly character intact in the face of that kind of a conflict?

01:14:26

Love that question. Thank you for whoever forwarded that.

01:14:31

Love that question. So the question really is, how do you not respond in kind when being insulted, mocked, and so forth?

01:14:40

And we are told in Hebrews to consider him who endured such opposition against himself, lest you be weary and faint in your mind.

01:14:51

And so first of all, we look to the example of Christ who was told that when he was reviled, he reviled not again.

01:14:56

However, it sounds like the questioner is asking, what about emotionally? I mean, don't you just get tired of it after a while?

01:15:05

Don't you just want to hand it back? Again, I think we have the example of Christ here that we need to look at.

01:15:13

And in this way, we need to remember what our message is. If we can remember our message, our message is the love.

01:15:21

It's the grace of Christ. It's the need for the person who's mocking us, attacking us to repent and believe in Christ.

01:15:29

If we love that message and we love Christ, then it will help us to stay on message. And I want to give an example.

01:15:36

Anybody asking this question, I would say, please go to John chapter 8, where Christ was attacked personally.

01:15:44

For example, the issue in John 8 was whose father is whose. And Christ had to say some very difficult things to his listeners there.

01:15:55

And they came back with personal attacks. We need to understand when we go out with the message of Christ, it quickly gets personal against us, against our own person.

01:16:05

We see this, for example, all the time in social media arguments. An issue begins, it starts out talking about the issue, then it quickly becomes a personal attack.

01:16:16

If we are serious about our message, you, sir, ma 'am, you need to believe in Christ, we will have a much easier time putting up with the personal attacks.

01:16:28

I want to give a quick example from John 8. There's at one point in John 8, 41, where Christ says, you do the deeds of your father.

01:16:36

And he's talking about their father, the devil, as he will say here in a couple of verses. And he's got a very stiff message for them.

01:16:43

They come back with a personal attack. And their personal attack is, then they said to him, we were not born of fornication.

01:16:51

We have one father, God. Translation, we're not born of fornication like you.

01:16:57

Do you see what just happened here? He was personally attacked. He was personally mocked.

01:17:03

And if you read John 8, we don't read the next verses there, but Christ just stays with the message.

01:17:08

A couple of verses later, in verse 48, it says, then the Jews answered and said to him, do we not rightly say that you are

01:17:16

Samaritan and have a demon? What a personal attack. You Samaritan, you demon -possessed person, you.

01:17:24

Jesus Christ, he doesn't even, see, that's where we would get off track, right? We say, let's start arguing about who's a

01:17:30

Samaritan and who's not. Christ doesn't do that. He simply says, I don't have a demon, and he's right back on message.

01:17:39

So my counsel, when you're being attacked, when you're being mocked, when you're being abused, remember your message and stay with it.

01:17:48

We have another, no, actually, it's not an anonymous listener. We have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania.

01:17:56

And Joseph asks, do you have a recommended age limit when it comes to the youth of an individual who would volunteer for some kind of an activity like the one that you will be engaged in this weekend?

01:18:12

Yeah, another terrific question. We definitely discourage younger people from being at something like this.

01:18:19

Things that you might see, probably will see, that are just, frankly, offensive.

01:18:25

Now, what do you mean by younger, though? I mean, would a senior in high school be old enough? Would a young college person?

01:18:32

Yeah, basically what we're talking about is younger kids. Sometimes people want to bring their children, younger children, 8, 9, 10, to an event to show what it's like.

01:18:42

And we recommend against that. If you go to an abortion clinic, you can probably, that's going to be a little bit different.

01:18:49

Usually at abortion clinics, you don't get the abuse that you get at these pride events. But anyone who is old enough to recognize

01:18:56

God's methods or God's ideas or God's directions for the gift of sex and understand the abuse of it and understand the purpose of it,

01:19:09

I would say anyone that age, especially if you're a young man, I would have to say you should be able to come to something like this.

01:19:17

We actually discourage the women from coming because, again, the things that are said, it's hard for us as men to look at women being abused verbally.

01:19:30

If it's a fellow man, it's different. And so we don't say if you're women, don't come at all.

01:19:38

But we certainly want to see men stand up and be men at these things. And I would have to say

01:19:44

Christy was 12 years old when he began to answer the doctors there in Luke, I believe.

01:19:52

Chapter 2 was in Luke. I'm not sure which chapter it was. So I usually go to that 12 years of age and say above 12, it may be appropriate.

01:20:01

And now we do have another anonymous listener who says,

01:20:09

Is there a particular protocol that you think is most

01:20:14

Christ honoring when it comes to those from the so -called LGBTQ community being in your midst at the corporate gathered worship service of your congregation?

01:20:29

I understand that most evangelical churches would not in any way object to those who identify as homosexuals coming to hear the gospel because that will be the very means by which they hear the good news and repent and turn to Christ.

01:20:46

But what about drag queens? What about transgendered people who are biologically male and dressing as a woman or vice versa?

01:20:56

That's where the area may become more difficult. So what are your thoughts on that?

01:21:02

I remember, I don't know if you remember Chuck McElhaney. Chuck McElhaney.

01:21:09

San Francisco, I believe. Yes, he was pastor of First Orthodox Presbyterian Church in San Francisco.

01:21:16

He wrote a book called When the Wicked Seize the City. Or I can't remember, it might have been

01:21:21

When the Wicked Seize Us City. But basically they fired their organist who was an unrepentant homosexual when it came to light that he was involved in that activity and refused to repent.

01:21:36

And they fired him. And the homosexual community of San Francisco unleashed their fury on this church and even burned the, well they set the the parsonage on fire.

01:21:51

I don't know if it burned to the ground, but I don't remember. It's been a long time since I've read the book. But they definitely set the parsonage on fire while Pastor Chuck and his wife and children were still in it.

01:22:03

They did this at night. But Chuck stayed in that community for years after this happened.

01:22:11

He wanted to remain as a lighthouse, a beacon of light with the gospel of Jesus Christ in that dark, dark and depraved and perverse city, even though that was happening.

01:22:27

And in fact they had hundreds of voicemail messages even before the fire left on there.

01:22:33

I guess back in those days it was an answering machine with threats that their children were going to be raped and murdered.

01:22:42

There was never an arrest in that case. But Chuck did permit drag queens to show up for their worship service.

01:22:53

And he said that they were very receptive on occasion to the gospel and would privately meet with him afterwards, wanting to know more about the truth of God's Word.

01:23:06

But I can't say that just because Chuck did it, that's an advisable thing. But what are your thoughts on that?

01:23:12

Yeah. If a person were to show up to our congregation proselytizing and promoting any kind of sin, they would not be welcome.

01:23:23

I've said oftentimes that a lot of times churches have outside a sign that says, Everyone Welcome.

01:23:29

I would never put a sign out in front of our fellowship, Everyone Welcome. There are those who hate

01:23:35

Christ, hate His people, want to destroy the family. And if you're in that category, you're not welcome in our fellowship.

01:23:43

We'll be happy to speak with you. We'll be happy to interact with you and tell you the gospel of Jesus Christ and call you to repentance.

01:23:50

But a church is the gathered body of Christ. And if you clearly hate the gathered body of Christ, then you're not welcome.

01:23:59

Well, as far as specifically, though, a drag queen or a transgendered person, would they be asked to leave if they showed up, or how would that work?

01:24:09

If they are repentant and want to learn more about the gospel, you are certainly welcome. If you are here to tell us how hateful we are because we don't accept your lifestyle or, like you said earlier, death style, then we're going to have to talk about it at another place.

01:24:24

No, what I mean is if they're just totally passive, they're just here to observe and listen, but they're dressed like a woman if they're a man or vice versa.

01:24:32

Obviously, a woman dressed like a man is a commonplace thing even in a

01:24:38

Christian church, but the reverse is obviously a different story. So, what would you do?

01:24:46

Yeah, for sure. It might be a little bit like what we had to do with the whole mask thing. We never wore masks during all the

01:24:57

COVID nonsense. What I did tell the congregation was this. We're not going to throw you out if you have a mask.

01:25:05

You just might be uncomfortable here. If you are a man dressed as a woman and you came to Independence Reform Bible Church, we're going to definitely have a conversation about why you're doing what you're doing.

01:25:18

If you're doing it to proselytize or make a point, you're not going to be welcomed back.

01:25:24

Maybe you get one strike for sure. Let's find out what you're doing, but you're not going to come and promote sin anymore than an unrepentant murderer or liar or thief would be welcome.

01:25:37

By the way, for all of our anonymous listeners who have written in questions, if you are a first -time questioner, please give me through a private email, of course, your full name and your mailing address because you have won, if you're a first -time questioner, a new, free,

01:25:56

New American Standard Bible. Compliments of our friends who publish the NASB at nasbible .com

01:26:04

and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

01:26:10

who will be shipping that Bible out to you at no charge to you or to us. And to follow up there,

01:26:18

Chris, if I may, at one of our Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society meetings, we had a young person there who is a defender of transgenderism.

01:26:30

And she was respectful, and we had a conversation back and forth. And in fact, at a subsequent meeting, we had a discussion as well in a public place.

01:26:40

No problem whatsoever there. Now, don't you think that we can learn a lot from the life and conversion and transformation of Rosaria Butterfield?

01:26:56

I'm assuming you're familiar with Rosaria. Very much. Yeah, she was a tenured professor in New York State at a liberal university and not only a lesbian, but a self -professed leftist and Marxist.

01:27:17

And through the love and compassion of a Presbyterian pastor and his wife, a

01:27:25

Presbyterian pastor in a very conservative denomination, the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America, they invited

01:27:33

Rosaria over their home for meals. And she fell in love with them, and they fell in love with her.

01:27:43

And she eventually repented, embraced the gospel, became a

01:27:49

Christian, and is now a champion for the gospel and for proclaiming the good news and the gospel of repentance to not only the homosexual community, but all those outside of Christ.

01:28:07

And that is an aspect of Christian life that is often avoided, neglected.

01:28:17

In fact, I just recently posted a meme on Facebook, I don't know if you saw it, where I said that refusing to be inconvenienced may be one of the most predominant idols in the

01:28:33

Christian church. And I really mean that and meant that. We're fine with passing out tracts.

01:28:41

We're fine with preaching to those who are homosexual or otherwise, and so on.

01:28:50

I mean, of course, there are many Christians who will not even do that, but there are many who would be fine with that.

01:28:56

But have anybody of that background in your home? Are you out of your mind? Christians very often will draw a line when it is an inconvenience to them, or it just creeps them out.

01:29:13

Don't you think we have a valuable lesson, or valuable lessons plural, to learn from Rosaria?

01:29:19

No doubt about it. In fact, she has been quite a voice here.

01:29:26

I just saw an article she wrote called, Dear False Teacher, the Puritan Thomas Brooks Would Like a

01:29:32

Word With You, where she just kind of lays it down that she's attacking the false teachers who want to make you comfortable in your sin.

01:29:42

And that's the thing. In other words, I know of a case where a lesbian couple was welcomed in a church, and they weren't thrown out.

01:29:54

They weren't tossed out. They stayed there for a long time, got to be friends with people, and this is kind of like a counter to what you just said, but we can still arrive at the same place,

01:30:04

I think. And what happened was this pastor said, Hey, you're welcome to come. There weren't any problems.

01:30:10

Then finally they asked the pastor to marry them, and the pastor wouldn't do it, and they turned around and sued the church and attacked the church.

01:30:19

So my job really as a pastor is not to throw people out of the building, if you will.

01:30:25

My job is to preach the truth, and if people can stand it, welcome back.

01:30:31

If they can't, well, some seed fell on good ground and some seed fell on other grounds.

01:30:38

In the case of Rosaria Butterfield, it fell on good ground, but it didn't look like good ground at first.

01:30:46

My job is not to worry about how the ground looks. My job is to make sure I spread the seed no matter what the ground looks like, if that makes sense.

01:30:54

Oh, yeah. Amen. And by the way, folks, if you want to hear the three interviews that I have conducted with Rosaria Butterfield, just go to ionsharpensionradio .com

01:31:07

and type in the search engine her first name, Rosaria, R -O -S -A -R -I -A, and you will see all three of those audio links pop up.

01:31:17

And I look forward to my next interview with Rosaria. She told me a month or so ago that she is definitely interested in returning.

01:31:27

She's been very busy, obviously, with the kind of testimony that she has.

01:31:34

There's a lot of demands upon her life for speaking and writing, but God willing, she'll be back in the show soon.

01:31:42

Now, one thing to perhaps a caveat, and I'm not speaking for Rosaria Butterfield.

01:31:50

I'm just speaking for myself. Although I completely agree with the

01:31:57

Presbyterian pastor and his wife who invited Rosaria over to their home, I think that when a

01:32:06

Christian family has children at home who will be present for such a meal, don't you think there should be some kind of an agreement, if you are inviting a couple, for instance, a professed homosexual couple over your home, that you have to have some kind of agreement that, hey, love you guys, want to enjoy a meal with you.

01:32:31

I want to share the thing that I love most with you, and that is Jesus Christ and his word.

01:32:38

But please, out of respect for my family and our children, we would urge you to please forsake or not be involved in any kind of affectionate romantic behavior with one another.

01:32:56

And I'm not talking about anything, obviously, that most civilized people are not going to be doing something overtly sexual at a meal like that.

01:33:06

But you may have cuddling and things that a married heterosexual couple might do, and you'd have no problem with that.

01:33:11

But don't you think there has to be some kind of, especially if there are going to be young children present at a meal like that?

01:33:20

Yeah, there's no question about that. We would ask the same thing of, let's say, a heterosexual couple that was living together and not married, committing fornication, which the

01:33:29

Bible has some serious things to say. We would ask the exact same thing. Yeah, I agree with you 100%.

01:33:38

Now, before I ask my own question, we have another. We have

01:33:44

Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who has a question. And Bobby says, are there any videos or training material that helps further equip not only individual

01:33:56

Christians, but churches and parachurch organizations to properly and successfully go about being involved in public activities such as you are involved in this weekend?

01:34:11

You know what? Great question there from Bobby. We did a special training session this past Saturday.

01:34:19

And from folks who have been on these types of missions before, we have four presentations.

01:34:25

We talk about staying on message. We talk about the importance of the gospel. We talk about sharing

01:34:30

Christ in hostile situations. So these are available on YouTube. I'm not sure how to let

01:34:36

Bobby know about these. I don't know if I could send them to you. You can put them up on your site. That's fine.

01:34:43

Okay. I will send you, as soon as we're finished, I will send you those links, if that's good for you there,

01:34:51

Chris. And then Bobby could, I trust, get on your site and have access. Does that sound like the best way to do it?

01:34:57

Sure, and I could even e -mail those to Bobby and anybody else listening who requests those.

01:35:05

Oh, yeah. These are specifically designed to address the question that Bobby is asking.

01:35:11

And I believe it would be a tremendous help to him because, again, we make the point there,

01:35:17

Chris, and I actually do this in my presentation somewhat, that apologetics courses, not against them, a lot of good apologetics courses out there.

01:35:26

But generally speaking, apologetics courses are set up for like, okay, I talk, then you talk, and it's set up for somewhat of a pristine situation.

01:35:36

And we demonstrate that these situations are not, you know, when you're out at a Pride festival there, it's not going to be a pristine situation.

01:35:45

How do you handle when someone's just yelling at you and doesn't give you a chance to talk? How do you stay on message?

01:35:51

So these are some of the things that we deal with and address in our training, set of training videos.

01:36:00

And we have another listener, CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who has a statement slash question.

01:36:11

The statement is, I have heard Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, who is your speaker for your conference in Lancaster, say that he will never permit volunteers to join him and his colleagues in ministry at a public outreach unless they are members in good standing at a biblically faithful church.

01:36:37

He has been approached by people who are lone wolf maverick Christians, not attached to any church, and he has told them politely that they cannot participate in the handing out of tracts or anything else that they are involved in.

01:36:52

Would you agree with this? At something like this, and I'm sure

01:36:58

James has the same experiences that we do, sometimes it's hard to, quote, unquote, control. That's not my favorite word here, but control who, like, stands with you.

01:37:08

I remember last year there were people that came up and stood with us, and I don't remember them handing out any kind of literature, but we did not know them, but they were standing opposed to the, quote, unquote, celebration.

01:37:22

If someone is a lone wolf maverick and is not involved in any type of a church,

01:37:27

I'd like to have a conversation with them and find out why that is the case, because the church,

01:37:33

Christ loves his church, and, you know, we, as people in the 21st century, sometimes we don't care about the church too much, and we have a lot of disparaging things to say about it, and there are a lot of challenges with the church.

01:37:46

However, the assembled body is the body of Christ. I would definitely want to talk to someone before we, well,

01:37:56

I say, if I knew about the situation anyway, you know, tell me about your church.

01:38:02

I don't attend a church. Tell me why that is. I would definitely want to have a conversation.

01:38:08

I'm not saying I'd reach the exact same conclusion that James has reached, but I would tell you I'd be very close.

01:38:14

Yeah, Dr. White's ministry to Mormons at the public events that the

01:38:23

Mormons have had annually, both in Arizona and in Salt Lake City, Utah, have been greatly hindered because of idiots who profess to be

01:38:37

Christians, who, after years of Dr. White's having basically cornered the market on evangelism at those events with no competing voices, these events finally started to, unfortunately, be visited by King James -only -ist mavericks, who very often, if not all the time, when asked, were not members of a specific church.

01:39:16

And they were involved in buffoonery in their hateful rhetoric towards the

01:39:24

Mormons, burning effigies of Joseph Smith, waving

01:39:29

Mormon holy underwear and desecrating it, and, you know, things like that, that you're not going to win any convert to Christ doing that, and I don't even think that was the goal or intent of these people.

01:39:43

They seem to have a lot in common with the God Hates Fags group with Westboro Baptist, but that is a reason, obviously, to be very cautious about who may tarnish your reputation while you're out doing a good work like that.

01:40:03

Yeah, and speaking of that last year, speaking of tarnishing, we were out there with our group, and there were a few of us with signs.

01:40:11

We find out from the local newspaper, Chris, that we've been infiltrated. Now, stick with me on this crazy story.

01:40:19

The local newspaper reported that we had a sign out there that said, Burn Gays, right?

01:40:26

And this was in the newspaper. And at first, we were like, man, were we infiltrated? How in the world could this be?

01:40:31

They said they had a picture and so forth. But as we looked into it, it turned out that it was a counter -protester that had a sign that said,

01:40:39

Born Gay. Now, you would like to think that the local newspaper would have someone who could spell.

01:40:50

And that might have been just intentional fraudulent coverage. Exactly, exactly.

01:40:57

And it turned out that's exactly what it was. We had no one that said, Burn Gays. But there was someone with a counter -protester sign that said,

01:41:06

Born Gay. Well, they reported us as being these mean, hateful people that had a sign that said,

01:41:11

Burn Gays. Aren't these people awful? So my point is it's going to be bad enough.

01:41:17

You're going to be distorted enough and attacked enough. While you're staying on message, Christ died for sinners.

01:41:24

He died for those who will believe in him. And you need to repent and believe the gospel. Stay on message.

01:41:30

You know what? I'd be happy to burn Joseph Smith in effigy. If that was the way that the gospel was to be preached from the

01:41:38

Scriptures, I'd be happy to do it. Except that we don't see anything like that anywhere in the

01:41:45

Scriptures. This is how to get the gospel out. Let's burn somebody in effigy. Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with all 66 books.

01:41:53

I haven't seen it yet. Yeah, that was not the approach the Apostle Paul took at Mars Hill. Not hardly.

01:42:00

We have to go to our final break. Send in your question, if you have one, to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:42:05

We'll be right back with Joel St. Please do not go away. ♪♪♪

01:42:24

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Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and kings.

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We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.

01:48:01

We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt

01:48:07

Christ. This is Pastor David Reis of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.

01:48:14

Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.

01:48:21

Puritan Reformed Church. Believe. Build. Fight. PuritanPHX .com

01:48:38

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

01:48:48

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

01:48:58

Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

01:49:04

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

01:49:16

Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

01:49:27

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com. westminstercommentary .com

01:49:35

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

01:49:44

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr.

01:49:51

Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you. I'm Dr.

01:50:04

Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

01:50:15

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jansen and Christopher McDowell.

01:50:22

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear Saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

01:50:40

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

01:50:47

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

01:50:56

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net

01:51:02

That's hopereformedli .net Or call 631 -696 -5711

01:51:11

That's 631 -696 -5711

01:51:16

Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

01:51:29

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a longtime partnership with our friends at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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They specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for everyone.

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CVBBS has been a family -owned book service since 1987, operating out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

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They seek to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices.

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Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available or popular because, frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time.

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That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith -insulting materials promoted by the secular book vendors.

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Order online at cvbbs .com. That's cvbbs .com.

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Or you can order by phone at 1 -800 -656 -0231.

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That's 1 -800 -656 -0231. Please let our friends at CVBBS know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:52:58

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

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NASB. I'm Dr. Joe Moorcraft, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Anthony Uvino, founder of thereformrookie .com

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and co -founder of New York Apologetics, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

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I'm Pastor Tim Bushong of Syracuse Baptist Church in Syracuse, Indiana, and the NASB is my

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Historical Bible Society, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Josh Miller of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Joe Bianchi, president of Calvi Press Publishing in Greenville, South Carolina, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jake Korn of Switzerland Community Church in Switzerland, Florida, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

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Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

01:54:52

Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing 6th grade.

01:54:58

Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?

01:55:07

Becoming a parent. My name is A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

01:55:14

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

01:55:25

That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents

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God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

01:55:43

Please visit us at TruthLoveParent .com. Pastor Joel, we have time for one more listener question who is anonymous.

01:55:52

The listener says, A great deal of the homosexual rhetoric against Christians is that all of the converts that we claim exist among us who are formerly homosexuals are not really converted and eventually always fall back into their former lifestyle.

01:56:14

Are there people that you can actually point to who were involved in homosexuality who have repented of this and have remained faithful to Christ and have even become married to somebody of the opposite sex that we can point to these people as a person that would be opposing what they are claiming?

01:56:38

Yeah, Chris, great question. One of my favorite people, if I'm allowed to have favorite people, is

01:56:44

I'll just give his first name. His name is Gary. He has stood with me to minister the gospel at some of these events in the past.

01:56:53

Gary is a former homosexual, now married. He's got three or four children, and he's been standing at these things now for years.

01:57:03

Gary is thoroughly converted. And people will oppose him,

01:57:08

I think, more even than me, knowing that he is a former homosexual. He has been in that lifestyle or death style.

01:57:16

And Gary is one of the folks that speaks the loudest and most consistently about the danger and the deadliness of homosexuality.

01:57:27

So I not only see the numbers, I know the man himself in this case,

01:57:33

Gary. And I'm looking forward to standing with him again this year at an event in Harrisburg.

01:57:40

Not sure if he'll be with us in Levis. I've talked to him. He works. I'm not sure if he'll be able to be there.

01:57:46

But I'll see him again in Harrisburg as I've seen him in years past. And, of course, don't forget about the woman that both

01:57:53

Joel and I were discussing before the break, Rosaria Butterfield, who not only has she written published books, but she has videos available of her speaking engagements and so on.

01:58:06

And there's many, many more than those two folks. And they can be found if you put enough effort into it.

01:58:14

Well, we are out of time, brother. And I want to make sure that our listeners have all of the information that they need to contact you.

01:58:24

First of all, the website for Independence Reform Bible Church of Morgantown, Pennsylvania is IRBC .Church.

01:58:31

IRBC .Church. The website for the Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society is

01:58:37

MidAtlanticReformation .org. MidAtlanticReformation .org. And to keep updated on the upcoming event,

01:58:47

September 15th, 16th, and 17th in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, go to futureofchristendom .org,

01:58:54

futureofchristendom .org. I want to thank you so much for once again being a superb guest on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Pastor Joel.

01:59:04

I look forward to your frequent return to the program, as well as having others who are your colleagues at Mid -Atlantic

01:59:11

Reformation Society that join me on this program during the next year of sponsorship that you and your colleagues have generously provided for this show.

01:59:22

So I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for that, and I look forward to interviewing everyone involved with Mid -Atlantic

01:59:28

Reformation Society. Thanks so much for having me. It's been a pleasure, Chris. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater