August 31, 2021 Show with David J. Engelsma on “The Belgic Confession” (Part 4)

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this final day of August in 2021,

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August 31st, and today we are going to be interviewing one of my favorite guests, and this is a continuation of a series over which we have already had three parts.

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This is part four of our discussion on a new two -volume commentary on the

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Belgian Confession, and we have the author of that commentary to discuss not only the

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Confession, but the truths especially that are contained within the Confession. His name is

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David J. Engelsman, certainly no stranger to the Iron Sharpens Radio audience.

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He is an author and was the Professor of Dogmatics and Old Testament Studies for 20 years at Protestant Reform Seminary in Granville, Michigan, and Emeritus Professor since the

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Synod of 2008. He was the editor of the Standard Bearer magazine from 1988 to 2002, and he is a lecturer and preacher touring in North America and throughout the

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British Isles on behalf of the British Reformed Fellowship, which is devoted to spread and defend the

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Reformed faith in the United Kingdom. And today, as I said, we're addressing part four of the

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Belgian Confession, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Professor David J.

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Engelsman. I'm appreciative of the opportunity to discuss these fundamental doctrines and this great document, the

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Belgian Confession, with you once again. And I will give our audience our email address immediately in the event that they have a question on the

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Belgian Confession or a general question on the Reformed faith, also known as Calvinism, just a nickname because we attribute the teachings to Jesus Christ and the

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Triune God because these are not merely the teachings of men, although God used throughout history mighty men of God to bring us these truths, including

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John Calvin. But if you have a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter, let's say you are not in a

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Reformed church, you're beginning to lean more and more towards embracing these truths, or you at least have a lot of questions that are developing in your mind about these truths, and perhaps your church is so vehemently anti -Calvinist you don't want to identify yourself at this time.

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You might even be the pastor of a church like that. And I know a number of cases, many cases in fact, where that was the case, where a pastor who himself was not a

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Calvinist and pastored a non -Calvinist church eventually became a thoroughly

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Reformed preacher. And I even know of one man who God used this very program to bring a transformation in the life of an

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Arminian charismatic pastor who was so transformed by the program that he actually stepped down from the pastor of his church, being honest with his congregation about his beliefs.

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And since they could not tolerate those things, he left the congregation and became a member of an Orthodox Presbyterian church.

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So God has been using this program and I am very humbled by that. But why don't we, for the sake of those who missed all of the three previous programs on the

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Belgic Confession, why don't you give us some of the background we've already addressed in summary form and bring us to the point that we are going to be launching off today on predestination.

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First of all, the document that I have written my commentary on and that we're discussing on this program is the confession of faith of Reformed churches all over the world, known as the

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Belgic Confession, because that's where it was written and where it was adopted, first of all, by synods of the

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Reformed faith as the authoritative standard of the faith of those churches.

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The document was written in 1561 and it has the credential of being the confession of faith, the standard of all the teaching of Reformed churches all over the world.

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It was written in 1561 and the instrument God used was a man named Guido de

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Bray. This confession treats all of the major doctrines of the

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Christian faith in a systematic order and that's how we have been carrying on our conversation over the past weeks and months.

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The confession begins with the truth of the revelation of God in scripture.

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It proceeds to the confession of the truth of the Trinity, which we have discussed already, including the confession that Jesus Christ is true and eternal

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God, which is fundamental truth of the Christian religion and distinguishes the true church from all false churches.

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Then it proceeds, does the confession to a confession of the truth of creation and providence and the creation and fall of men and the historical

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Adam and the historical disobedience to the command of God concerning not eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

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That leads on naturally to the truth, the important truth of the original sin of mankind.

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Confession states that through the disobedience of Adam, original sin is extended to all man kind and explains that original sin as the corruption of the entire nature and an hereditary disease where with infants themselves are infected even in their mother's womb.

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Then that takes us to article 16 of the Belgian confession, which

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I believe is the point at which we are beginning our conversation today on eternal election and the accompanying doctrine of eternal reprobation or the doctrine of predestination.

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Now, I recall before the program started that you believed that there was some unfinished business, as it were, with article 14 and the teaching of free will.

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Did you want to address that first or do you want to plunge right into the article on predestination?

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I think the doctrine of the incapacity of fallen mankind to perform any good in contradiction of the popular teaching today, including most evangelical churches, nominally evangelical churches, the condemnation of the teaching of the free will of the sinner is so important that perhaps

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I could say a few things concerning the confession's condemnation of the theory of a free will of man.

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The line in the confession in article 14 of the Belgian confession that addresses that error is this, we reject all that is taught repugnant to this, namely the total depravity of fallen man, that's the issue, total depravity, concerning the free will of man, since man is but a slave to sin and has nothing of himself unless it is given from heaven, end of quote.

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Then it goes on with, does the article with an extended quotation of many scriptures that expose and condemn the theory of the free will of the sinner.

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That's an important aspect to the Belgian confession. It is biblically based and the content of the confession strategically with regard to virtually every doctrine that it confesses is a quotation of scripture.

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The issue is this, if man is totally depraved as the reformed faith of scripture confesses, there is in man no ability to will or choose the good and God or Jesus Christ as he is presented in the gospel and therefore the salvation of the sinner cannot be a matter of the choice or will of the sinner himself as though the free will, allegedly free will of the sinner determines his salvation.

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But on the contrary, as totally depraved every sinner by nature as he comes forth from his mother's womb is incapable of choosing the good and that means that the salvation of some sinners is due to the electing grace of God in Jesus Christ so that the salvation of the sinner is by grace rather than by the free will of the sinner.

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That gives the glory of the salvation of those who are saved to God and to God alone.

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That issue is of the greatest importance as far as the faith of scripture is concerned.

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We are saved by grace and not by the works of the sinner so that the glory of salvation belongs to God and to God alone.

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That issue is a lively issue still today among Protestants and even among Protestants who call themselves and consider themselves to be evangelical

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Christians. I would say that the reigning philosophy or theological position of so -called evangelical churches today is that of free will.

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God loves every human. Christ died for every human so they teach. God desires the salvation of every human and makes an offer to every human in the gospel.

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But whether a sinner is saved by the gospel or not is a matter of his own choice and decision.

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I need not mention the name of haunted evangelists in the

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Protestant community whose teaching is, by their own admission, that the sinner is saved by the exercise of his own free will.

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That, with scripture, the Belgic Confession condemns in so many words.

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We reject all that is taught repugnant to this, namely repugnant to the truth of total depravity concerning the free will of man since man is but a slave to sin and has nothing of himself unless it is given from heaven and what follows.

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Now one thing or a couple of things that we should clarify because this in nearly every single point of the five points of Calvinism is so misunderstood.

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People have knee -jerk reactions to these teachings when they hear them and they begin to formulate without an open bible and without having done the thorough research that should be accompanying any study of these issues or any issue that concerns

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God's teachings. They formulate either things in their own minds that are caricatures or just outright false pictures of what

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Reformed people teach, or while not reading great

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Reformed men of history, they read anti -Calvinistic literature and only have that side of the story from those authors that hate what we believe.

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But the common thing that immediately comes to folks' minds, and I'm including myself, when

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I first began to hear about these doctrines that you and I hold precious,

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I was a person who had been raised in Roman Catholicism where these things were never heard, not even in a critical examination.

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And then when I began to explore evangelical churches and visit churches, the vast majority of them were

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Pentecostal, Charismatic, Church of Christ, all congregations to my knowledge at the time that had rejected these things.

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So I didn't even know about these things because there weren't, I don't even recall any negative sermons preached against these things during this time that I was searching and visiting churches.

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I didn't hear these things until it was a Bible study at the church where I was eventually saved and baptized, a

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Reformed Baptist church on Long Island. During a Bible study, I heard my pastor bringing some of these things up and I began to panic, and I had knee -jerk reactions of my own.

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But obviously, when it comes to free will, people have this very false idea that it's not only foreign to the

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Scriptures, but foreign to what Reformed people have always taught, at least those that are biblically sound and really faithful to what

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Calvinism means, that this means, according to Calvinists in their minds, that God is forcing men to sin against their will, and when men do good things, he is forcing them against their will also, and that when people reject

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Christ, it is God who is forcing them to reject Christ, and when they come to Christ, it is

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God who is forcing them, and the old saying goes, they are dragged kicking and screaming all the way into heaven because God is forcing them against their will.

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If you could just clarify how these are not only unbiblical concepts, as even our opponents would say that, but they are not even historical concepts when it comes to true

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Calvinism. In the thinking of many people, that's a misunderstanding of the denial of free will.

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On the part of the adversaries, the knowledgeable adversaries of the truth of the

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Reformed faith, that presentation of our doctrine is a deliberate caricature designed to turn men away from an important truth of the gospel.

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The truth of, or I should say, the meaning of free will, as I have referred to it and explained it and rejected, the meaning of free will is that the fallen sinner, even though he is fallen and sinful, nevertheless still retains the spiritual capability of accepting

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Jesus Christ when Jesus Christ is presented in the gospel, and that is because, according to those who hold that position, the fall of man in Adam was not total.

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Man as fallen is not completely depraved in all his faculties and then completely with regard to every faculty.

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He still retains the spiritual ability to desire

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Christ, to choose for Christ, and to commit himself to Christ, apart from any grace of God working in him and causing him to believe in Jesus Christ.

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And that's what we deny when we deny free will. We do not deny that psychologically the sinner freely does what he does, and we deny categorically that the disobedience of the and the rejection of Christ, we categorically deny that that's a matter of God forcing him.

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God does not force him to sin. He sins freely and on his own account, but that's all he can do is sin.

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And he loves to. That's correct. He does what he wants to do, but that's also all he can do because of the fallen condition of the human race through the disobedience of Adam.

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Adam's sin plunged the entire human race into a condition of total depravity, not partial depravity, leaving him a free will that's capable of choosing for Christ and saving himself.

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And the effect, the purpose of acknowledging this truth is this, that the sinner is dependent wholly upon God's mercy for believing in Christ as well as for the saving benefits he receives from Christ.

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When sinners are saved, that's God's doing by the power of his grace that works in him so that now he does have a will that chooses

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Christ and believes on Christ and recognizes and confesses

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Jesus Christ to be Lord and Savior. His doing that is not a matter of his own volition so that he can take the glory of saving himself, but the glory belongs to God who has worked in him to save him.

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Now some some folks listening think that we are making a big deal over trivial matters, but this is very serious stuff because those who are thoroughly and logically consistent when it comes to their

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Calvinism are really the only Christians that give 100 % of the glory to God for their salvation.

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Now those outside of the Reformed faith, no doubt most of them will say they do, but if you examine what they believe, they really don't.

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They believe that a dead, or in the words of many non -Reformed people, seriously sick

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Christians, or should I say humans, not Christians, they say that they are the ones that are really the arbiter, the final arbiter of where their eternal destiny lies, and they are the ones that throw the switch, as it were, of whether they are going to be welcomed into heaven or cast into hell.

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So that's a very serious issue, and there are some in the

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Arminian or non -Calvinist world, because obviously there are many evangelicals and others who reject what we believe who do not want to identify with Jacob Arminius either, but they have become so repulsed and hate our beliefs so much on these matters that some have even gone as far, including

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Hank Hanegraaff, who is now Eastern Orthodox, he converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, and a man who was considered one of the most brilliant evangelical theologians alive,

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Norman Geisler, they have said that our understanding of lost sinners coming to faith in Christ as cosmic rape,

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R .A .P .E., so that's how serious our opponents can take these things, so they obviously are important issues indeed, and we, in fact, if everybody listening will please mark your calendars,

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I'm going to announce this already, because it involves some of the things we're saying, Professor Engelsma will be returning to Iron Trip and Zion Radio very soon, in fact, not this

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Friday, but a week from this Friday, September 10th, he will be back in the program addressing the subject of hyper -Calvinism, not the hyper -Calvinism that is used as a label by non -Calvinists, which means every single person that believes in the five points of Calvinism, it's ironic why they would even have to use hyper in the name when they believe

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Calvinism is in of itself seriously flawed, why they need to throw in hyper there,

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I don't know, but hyper -Calvinism is not Calvinism, but we will address that, and you will get to know more about that,

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God willing, on September 10th. Let me respond to those who are listening who think either that the issue of free will or the bondage of the will, and by the way, that was central to Luther's reformation of the church in 1517, so when we maintain that the will of the sinner is bound, that is, it's incapable of choosing the good, we are not a

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Johnny -come -lately church or theology on the scene, but we are simply carrying on what

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Luther himself described as the central issue at the reformation of the church in 1517, that those who doubt the importance of the matter of the bondage of the will read

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Luther's great tome, The Bondage of the Will, in which he says that all of the issue and issues of the reformation come down to that in the end, and he complimented his foe,

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Erasmus, who hated the truth of the bondage of the will as much as or more than contemporary opponents, and you alone have struck to the heart of the issue.

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All of the truth of the gospel, in a way, centers around that question, is the will of the sinner bound or free?

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But now with regard to the importance of that issue, inasmuch as the error of the freedom of the will robs

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God of his glory and salvation, there's nothing more important than that issue.

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Robbing God of his glory is more important than the salvation of sinners. God must be glorified in his great work of salvation, and he is glorified in the matter of the bondage of the will because that means that all of salvation is his.

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Now the churches today and theologians have lost sight of that. The importance for them, the important thing for many is how we feel.

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We feel good, and even the all -important issue is our salvation. But important as the issue of salvation is, it's not as important as that God receives his glory and salvation.

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And I haven't quoted any scripture on this matter, but I want to show listeners who may have questions about this, that the apostle

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Paul taught the bondage of the will in the book of Romans throughout, but I appeal to his text in Romans 9, salvation is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth or works, but of God who shows mercy.

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If salvation is not of him that wills, that's underscoring the truth that the will of the sinner is bound so that salvation cannot in the end depend upon the sinner himself.

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That's the gospel of Romans 9. In fact, let's pick up right where we left off here and launch into predestination.

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When we come back, we have to go to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air, as I said before, the question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if it's a personal and private matter over which you are asking, and please don't stretch that definition beyond credulity.

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Please try to give us your first name and city and state and country of residence as much as possible.

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Don't go away. We'll be right back with David Engelsma in part four of the Belgic Confession right after these messages.

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41:08

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in. Our guest today is

41:14

David J. Anglesma and we are entering into part four of a discussion we began a number of months ago on his new two -volume commentary on the

41:28

Belgic Confession. If you have any questions of your own regarding this confession about Reformed theology in general or about the scriptures and Christianity in general, about the gospel in general, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

41:43

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

41:56

And I just want to read to our listeners something by an

42:02

Anglican listener who always, every time he hears that we are having Professor Anglesma on the program, he gets so excited.

42:10

He's a thoroughly Reformed and Protestant Anglican. He is not Anglo -Catholic, nor is he a leftist apostate, thoroughly

42:19

Calvinistic in his theology, and he has a very high view, to say the least, of Professor Anglesma, Donald Philip Veitch, who is the host of TWISSE House, T -W -I -S -S -E, on Facebook, which is a

42:38

Reformed Anglican discussion group named after William Twisse, a very great theologian in both the 16th and 17th centuries who was very instrumental in the framing of the

42:52

Westminster Confession. But Donald says, one, in regard to our guest,

43:00

Professor Anglesma, one of the few theologians speaking nationally and widely of merit and depth.

43:09

With Professor Anglesma, depth and insight triumphs over niceness, softness, and indifferentism.

43:18

Thank you, Chris. Well, I love that, and I think it's a very accurate description.

43:24

We are now launching into the predestinate, and I'm assuming you've finished everything that you wanted to say about free will before, but if you have, we will launch now into the article on predestination in the

43:37

Belgic Confession. The Belgic Confession treats of eternal predestination, election, and reprobation in Article 16, and the subject follows immediately upon the

43:53

Confession's statement of total depravity and a denial of the freedom of the human will.

44:03

The denial of the free will of the sinner points out that salvation cannot have its origin or source in the sinner himself.

44:15

He's totally depraved. There's nothing in him that's capable of or interested in or desirous of responding favorably to the preaching of the

44:24

Gospel and to Christ in the Gospel. That raises the question, what is the source and origin of all of salvation?

44:31

And that is answered by the Belgic Confession as it is answered by the Reformed faith in all its manuscripts and confessions in Article 16 by asserting that the source of all of salvation is

44:50

God's eternal election, and by eternal election is meant

44:56

God's choice in eternity of some particular human beings in Jesus Christ unto salvation.

45:08

And accompanying that decree of the election or choice of some particular individuals unto salvation, wholly by grace, because there's nothing in the sinner that makes him worthy of this election, accompanying this election is

45:25

God's reprobation or rejection of other human beings, appointing them unto eternal punishment in the way of their unbelief and sin.

45:38

That aspect of predestination, theologically predestination, has two elements then, election and reprobation or rejection.

45:47

The statement of God's eternal reprobation, which is probably the most hated doctrine in all of the teaching of Scripture, the statement of God's reprobation is very brief in the

46:00

Belgic Confession. It reads as follows, God is just in leaving others in the fall and perdition wherein they have involved themselves.

46:12

God is not responsible for the sinfulness of those whom he reprobates.

46:18

It is the fault of the human race in Adam for the fall into sin in which all sinners naturally find themselves.

46:27

Yes, very similar wording in the 1689 one in Baptist Confession of Faith. And it's very important because the enemies of Calvinism insist that our understanding of reprobation is, once again, that God is forcing otherwise spiritually neutral men to reject him and therefore be worthy of condemnation.

46:57

That they otherwise, according to their so -called free will, may have made a decision for Christ.

47:05

But they say that in our concept of reprobation, God is making sure that they won't because he's forcing them.

47:13

And this is obviously nonsense. It's not biblical, nor is it historical. That's correct.

47:21

And at the same time, this eternal decree does appoint some sinners to eternal damnation and the sovereignty of God.

47:35

God's sovereignty is at issue in everything we have been discussing this afternoon so far.

47:42

God is sovereign in his appointing of some particular human beings to salvation who are in themselves no better than the others who are not chosen.

47:54

And God is sovereign in his leaving others in the perdition into which they fell in Adam and Eve.

48:02

So that the fault of the depravity and perdition is their own.

48:08

But nevertheless, God has appointed them to that eternal destiny. And that is objectionable to many folks and enrages them.

48:18

And I wanted to mention that in connection with some of our comments earlier. There is misunderstanding of the truth of the denial of the free will of the sinner, and there is misunderstanding of the truth of predestination as confessed by the reformed faith.

48:36

We ought to clear that up as we have opportunity as we're doing this afternoon, I trust. And at the same time, we ought to recognize that the truth that salvation is by the sovereign grace of God and not by the will of the sinner is opposed by many who do understand it full well and rightly because it ascribes the glory of salvation to God and not to the sinner.

49:04

Sinful men react negatively against that truth. They want to oppose and deny the grace of God and the salvation of sinners.

49:14

That is often the explanation of the rage of the enemies of predestination and salvation by grace alone as we experience that today and as the reformed faith has experienced that always.

49:29

We have a listener who is choosing to remain anonymous, and he says,

49:35

Hello, Professor Engelsma. I am a first -time questioner and am remaining anonymous because I know

49:43

I am going to offend the Christians who are most close to me in my opposition to their beliefs, and it will put me in a touchy situation at church.

49:57

So therefore, I am remaining anonymous. Please forgive me for doing so. Every time

50:03

I have heard someone get into a discussion against the doctrine of unconditional election, they use the tired, old, worn -out phrase saying,

50:18

You believe that God says eeny, meeny, miny, moe, and arbitrarily picks some for salvation and others for damnation, and it has nothing to do about anything else other than a whim of God, and I was wondering how you can explain that away when

50:39

I hear that for the millionth time. My response to that canard is that the saying has, as its implied preference, that God chooses some people because of some good he finds in them.

51:06

That is the alternative. I don't agree with the statement or its implication.

51:15

But in the mind of those who raise that foolishness as an objection, what ought to be the case is that God chooses some people to salvation because he finds some good in them that distinguishes them from others.

51:31

That is what they are really opposed to. But with regard to the charge itself,

51:40

God does not choose arbitrarily. God chooses according to his own infinite wisdom, and he has his own purpose in choosing whom he does, which purpose does not result from anything in them, but which purpose is a good purpose in his own thinking and in his own mind.

52:03

So I repeat, the alternative in the thinking of those who raise that objection is that God should find something in the sinners whom he does choose to explain why he chooses those whom he does, and there is no difference.

52:20

Election is a humbling doctrine, not one that praises those who are chosen or indicates that God is arbitrary in his choice, but election is a humbling doctrine.

52:35

He chooses me who is as bad as or whom I know to be worse than those whom he does not choose.

52:44

The explanation for his choice of me is not some arbitrariness of God, but rather the grace of God who chooses whom he will.

52:54

In fact, we have to go to our midway break right now. We're going to pick up where we left off there. And by the way,

53:00

Anonymous, since you have identified yourself as a first -time questioner, you have received not only the two volume set, which is

53:10

Professor Engelsman's two -volume commentary on the Belgian Confession, absolutely free of charge, but you'll also get a

53:18

New American Standard Bible since you're a first -time questioner, compliments of the publishers of the NASB.

53:23

We want to thank Reform Free Publishing Association for providing these commentaries, and we want to thank

53:30

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com, for shipping them out to our winners.

53:36

Please, Anonymous, give us your full name and address via email, and obviously

53:42

I will not divulge that information on the air. We have to go to our midway break, and please use this time wisely.

53:48

It's a bit longer than the other breaks because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires a longer break in the middle of the show so they can localize

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio geographically to Lake City, Florida through their own public service announcements.

54:04

And while they do that, we air our own globally heard commercials. So please use this time wisely.

54:09

Write down the information provided by advertisers so that you can more frequently respond to them, and also send in your questions to Professor Engelsma at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

54:20

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We are going to be back after these messages with more

54:26

Professor David J. Engelsma. I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

54:37

My friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once again for the

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G3 Conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme,

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Christ is Supreme Over All. I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and singing, including

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For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com. Chris Arnson and I hope to see you

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September 30th through October 2nd at G321. This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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David J. Engelsma, and our discussion on the Belgian Confession, this is part four of a discussion we began months ago because of the launching of his new two -volume commentary on the

01:10:08

Belgian Confession. Before we return to that discussion, just have a couple more announcements to make.

01:10:15

I want to thank everybody for your continued prayers for me and my entire family as I have lost my oldest brother

01:10:23

John at the age of 76. He had been battling cancer and critical stage emphysema for quite a long time, and pneumonia more recently.

01:10:36

It was the critical stage emphysema and the pneumonia that took his life, but that was a part of God's plan to take him when he did, and I can rejoice that my brother gave sufficient evidence for me to believe that he was trusting in the finished work of Christ alone to receive the gift of eternal life with him.

01:11:00

So I expect to meet my brother one day, and I thank all of you who have been praying for me and my family and for my brother before his parting this earth.

01:11:11

Also, please remember to continue praying for his wife Jan, still in the hospital with COVID and pneumonia.

01:11:22

Jan, to my knowledge, is not a born -again believer, and so I'm asking you to let me hear or read from her own lips or pen or keyboard, as it were, a sufficient statement of a profession of faith so that I can also have confidence she will be with Christ for eternity when she departs this earth.

01:11:54

Pray also for his surviving family, which include not only

01:12:00

Jan, his widow, but his daughters Regina and Patrice, his sons

01:12:06

Eric and JJ, and his siblings Andrew, Mary, Robert, and myself.

01:12:14

We all really appreciate it. Also, folks, if you are a man in ministry leadership and you are able to get to Carlisle, Pennsylvania, on Monday, September 27th, from 11 a .m.

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to 2 p .m., I strongly urge you to rearrange your schedule and do whatever you have to do.

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These were the instructions of my precious late wife, Julie, back in the 1990s when we started these luncheons every year.

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They have now increased to twice a year, and it was her idea, since she knew

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I had so many friends who were pastors, she said, instead of us exchanging

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Christmas gifts every year, why don't we use that money to treat your friends who are pastors to a

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Christmas lunch every year, and make sure that they hear a good speaker to encourage them and edify them and embolden them, and make sure that everything is free, not only the meal, but make sure that they get a lot of free books, because pastors love books so much, and they even love them more when they're free.

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And I launched, with my wife's instructions, these luncheons back in the 1990s, and they have grown in size to the point where we require corporate sponsorship.

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But it is absolutely free to everyone attending. So if you would like to attend,

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I've got some even greater news, other than what I've just said about it being free.

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That's Monday, September 27th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, absolutely free of charge.

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Please register as quickly as possible before we run out of room. Send your emails to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:15:33

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line. I look forward to seeing you.

01:15:40

Also, folks, if you really love this show and you do not want it to disappear from the airwaves,

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I am urging you, please go to ironsharpdesignradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

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You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing so. And if you prefer a snail mail, there will also be a physical mailing address that appears on your screen when you click support at ironsharpdesignradio .com

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You could also advertise with us as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what

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I believe. You don't have to believe identically with me. My guest today, Professor Anglesma, have much in common.

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We also have some disagreements on things, and so I'm not demanding that everyone advertised believes 100 % as I do, but you must be promoting something that is at the very least compatible with what

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01:17:32

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01:17:39

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Please use some or all of that money to help us remain on the air. Last but not least, if you are not a member of a local, biblically faithful, theologically sound church, no matter where on the planet earth you live,

01:18:15

I may be able to help you find a church that is faithful to the scriptures and to God. I have helped many people in our audience find churches in all parts of the globe, sometimes just within a few minutes of their home, and they didn't even know that these churches existed, or they didn't know that these churches they pass by every day were theologically sound.

01:18:34

So I may be able to help you too. Send me an email to chrisarns at a gmail dot com. chrisarns at a gmail dot com and put

01:18:40

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01:18:46

Engelsma. That's chrisarns at a gmail dot com. chrisarns at a gmail dot com.

01:18:52

And I also want to personally thank Professor Engelsma for all he did to help me secure the advertising campaign of the

01:19:02

New Reformed Children's Magazine, Ignited by the Word. And I want to remind you of their website where you can order your subscription.

01:19:13

I almost said prescription, but that's also applicable since it's medicine for the soul, for children. That's ignitedbytheword .org,

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ignitedbytheword .org. Thank you so much, Professor Engelsma, for all you did to help me get that ad campaign launched.

01:19:30

Well, we have come back to the Belgic Confession and our discussion on predestination.

01:19:36

Is there anything that you want to clarify from what you said earlier? Yes, I appreciate the opportunity to do that.

01:19:43

Someone had raised an objection to the truth of election by jocularly describing the explanation of election as God's going eeny, meeny, miny, moe.

01:19:57

That's really a remark that addresses the question, what is the origin or explanation of God's election of some?

01:20:10

The Bible takes us this far regarding the origin and explanation of God's election of some.

01:20:18

And that origin, in Ephesians 1 verse 4 and other places, is his love for them.

01:20:25

So that when one becomes aware and assured of his election by faith in Jesus Christ, and that's the way to have the assurance of election, then he knows that God chose him because God loved him.

01:20:43

And further than that, the Bible does not reveal anything about the explanation of God's election of us.

01:20:52

Beyond his love for us, the Bible is silent. And it has nothing to do with our loveliness or being lovable innately.

01:21:03

It has nothing to do with that at all. That's exactly correct. The Bible does say this about the explanation of his election of us, that it was nothing in us that drew his choice of us or attracted his love for us.

01:21:17

And so there's a mystery about election, a healthy mystery. We go as far as the Bible goes in describing and knowing the source of election, and that's his eternal love for us whom he has chosen.

01:21:29

Now, I know that no earthly illustration ever completely satisfies a biblical truth.

01:21:39

But could you say that it is, when I'm trying to explain this to somebody, when parents adopt a child, they may go to an orphanage, maybe even overseas, and there are children there who are seriously deformed, or they may be children who have been involved in violent crime, or they are, as the common phrase goes, juvenile delinquents.

01:22:18

There's nothing in these children that necessarily would attract most human parents to adopt them.

01:22:26

In fact, many might stay as far away from these children as they possibly could get.

01:22:33

But there are certain parents who choose to love these children and adopt them.

01:22:39

And of course, as I said, a human or earthly analogy is not completely satisfactory because humans always need some external force or thing that compels them to do what they do.

01:22:55

God does not need any such thing at all. But could you say that that is somewhere in the atmosphere of what we're saying?

01:23:02

All illustrations limp, but that illustration, it seems to me, is valid as far as it goes.

01:23:08

It helps to bring out that God does not choose us because of any attractiveness in us at all.

01:23:15

We ought to be content with stopping with that and not try to explain further the origin of his election because God is incomprehensible in many of his works, and he's incomprehensible in his work of predestination as well.

01:23:29

Except that we must always know and confess it was not anything in us that drew his love or accounted for his choice of us.

01:23:40

Then with regard to what I would want to say more about the truth of election,

01:23:47

I'm going to quote myself from one of the commentaries that I wrote on the Belgic Confession.

01:23:53

It struck me the other day that I hadn't quoted myself at all from the commentaries that are supposed to be the subject of our conversation, and that may be appropriate modesty on my part, but I am supposed to talk about the commentary.

01:24:08

So here's something that I've written about the truth of election as brought out in Article 16.

01:24:15

I quote myself, Article 16 declares the misery of fallen man in order to underscore that God's salvation of fallen, damn worthy, and ruined humans is due solely to the mercy of God, a mercy that has its origin only in God's gracious election, and that is not at all due to the worthiness of these humans.

01:24:37

There is no worthiness of fallen humans. End of quote. We have a listener named

01:24:45

Robert in upstate New York, and Robert says that he is a first -time questioner and wants to know, is there a difference between predestination and election?

01:25:02

The Bible uses the word predestination and the reference in every case is to election, but in theology, predestination includes both

01:25:18

God's election of some and his reprobation of others. So in theology, there is a distinction between predestination, which also includes reprobation and election.

01:25:31

In other words, election never, in theological soundness, is referring to the reprobate.

01:25:41

In the Bible? Anywhere. I mean, where it's accurately explained.

01:25:48

Biblically, it's always, predestination is always a reference to election alone, but when theologians and churches teach and speak about predestination, they have in mind both aspects of predestination, the predestination unto salvation and the predestination unto eternal death, election and reprobation.

01:26:11

But what I mean is when someone refers to election, reform theologians have never said those who have been elected to hell, in other words.

01:26:20

That's what I'm getting at. Not with election, no. Election always refers to the saving act of God.

01:26:30

Well, thank you, Robert, and you have also won the two -volume commentary on the

01:26:37

Belgic Confession, compliments of Reform Free Publishing Association, and also Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service will be shipping those two volumes out to you absolutely free of charge, and you're also going to be getting the

01:26:49

New American Standard Bible free since you're a first -time questioner, compliments of the publisher, and compliments of cvbbs .com.

01:27:00

The idea, it's kind of interesting how there are many Christians who are not reformed who say they don't believe in predestination or election, and that is very sloppy speaking because if they are believers in the

01:27:17

Bible and the inerrancy of Scripture, those concepts are there. They have to believe in them in some way, and of course you do have those who are perhaps more biblically literate and more well -read and yet not reformed who admit, yes,

01:27:34

God elects and God predestines, but not unconditionally. Doesn't this either unconsciously or consciously render those who are professing evangelicals really on the same side as Rome on this issue?

01:27:51

It's kind of interesting to me that there are many fundamentalists, and not all.

01:27:57

I know that there are a number of thoroughly Calvinistic fundamentalist Baptists and fundamentalist

01:28:02

Presbyterians. Even the landmark Baptists are divided.

01:28:07

They have some landmark Baptists are fundamentalist and thoroughgoing

01:28:13

Calvinists, and others are fundamentalist and vehement anti -Calvinist, but the fundamentalists that really oppose

01:28:22

Calvinism, and even some would call it the doctrine of demons, they also oppose

01:28:28

Roman Catholicism and call it a damning religion, and yet they're on the same side on so many issues when it comes to soteriology, and I'm assuming that's unconscious.

01:28:38

Isn't this true and quite disturbing? To anyone who supposes that a discussion such as we're having on predestination is superficial and unnecessary, the response is, as a believer, what explains your faith?

01:29:01

And yet there is an answer that has to be given to that, and that answer is one of two possibilities.

01:29:07

It's because of my choice of Christ, that's the fundamental explanation of my salvation, or it's

01:29:14

God's choice of me unto salvation in eternity. In the first case, the one who answers like that is taking the glory of his salvation to himself and robbing

01:29:25

God of his glory, or he is ascribing glory to God for his salvation.

01:29:34

But this issue and question are inescapable for everyone who professes to believe in Jesus Christ.

01:29:41

They believe, these evangelicals who are not Reformed, yes, they'll say, of course

01:29:48

God elects and predestines, but he elects because he knows all things, including the future, and he looks down the corridors of time as they say, and he knows who is going to choose him.

01:30:02

That is putting all of the emphasis on men being made worthy in their minds of their salvation because they are the ones that God sees choosing him.

01:30:17

It really makes men electing God, doesn't it? Yes, it does. That's probably the majority opinion in the

01:30:26

Protestant church world today. That is the fundamental Roman Catholic doctrine, so they are allied with Rome in what

01:30:32

Luther called the fundamental issue concerning the Reformation, but they are, in that way, they are ascribing the glory of their salvation to themselves.

01:30:42

God chose them because they were worthy, because they fulfilled the condition of faith. That brings up the great controversy in the church in the 1500s and early 1600s between the

01:30:56

Arminians and the Orthodox Reformed. The Arminians taught exactly what you have just described, an election based on foreseen faith and a reprobation based on foreseen unbelief.

01:31:11

We have Mary Teresa in West Babylon, Long Island, New York, and she says,

01:31:19

I have heard that Calvinists believe that the number of people in heaven who have been predestined to be there will be a comparative very tiny handful of people.

01:31:33

Is that true? That the number of the elect is tiny is not true according to the

01:31:41

Bible. It's a multitude that no man can number, but the

01:31:47

Bible also indicates that in relationship at any time to the number of unbelievers, that the people of God chosen unto eternal life is a remnant, a smaller number, but we leave the number of the saved up to God.

01:32:05

It's not our duty to pronounce judgment on that, except insofar as the

01:32:10

Bible itself addresses that matter, but it's not a tiny handful of people.

01:32:17

Thank you, Mary Teresa. You've also won the two volume set on the Belgic Confession. Make sure we have your full mailing address so that cvbbs .com

01:32:26

can ship those two volumes out to you. We thank, once again, Reform Free Publishing Association for providing these free copies.

01:32:37

We have, let's see, I was just looking at it a moment ago.

01:32:45

Okay, we have Christopher in Western Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, and Christopher says that, let's see, he says a lot of things, and I'm trying to cut to the chase.

01:33:03

Christopher says, oh, here it is, many fundamentalists who attack

01:33:11

Calvinists say that we are the ones that are far too close to Rome because we honor, as a hero,

01:33:20

Augustine. But isn't it true that Augustine actually was on the side of the

01:33:25

Reformers, of course, prior to their existence, in many ways that are most essential to soteriology and the faith, and that the

01:33:35

Catholicism of today, even though it reveres Augustine in their rhetoric, is really far from what he taught in most ways that are the most important ways?

01:33:50

The Reformed faith can be called Augustinian in regard to its teaching of salvation, and particularly with regard to predestination.

01:34:02

Augustine developed in his understanding of the Word of God so that relatively late in his career and ministry, he came to see the truth of the doctrine of predestination, and he came to see it as the origin of all of salvation.

01:34:20

And so much was that true that Calvin, who was faithful to and developed

01:34:26

Augustine's doctrine of salvation, said on occasion that everything he taught he had learned from Augustine, that is, with regard to the doctrine of salvation.

01:34:37

The Roman Catholic Church, although it is supposed to revere Augustine as a saint, despises and condemns everything that Augustine taught with regard to the truth of salvation, that is, the truth of salvation by grace alone, so that its adherence to Augustine is empty noise.

01:35:03

What I'm going to do now is I'm going to go to our final break right now so that I don't have to interrupt you again mid -sentence, and if anybody has a question, please send it now, or as at least soon as possible, because we are running out of time.

01:35:21

We do have 25 minutes left or so, but that will go by in a bullet, so if you have a question you want to get in line, please send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:35:30

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

01:35:43

USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

01:35:50

Don't go away, we'll be right back with more of Professor David J. Engelsma after these messages.

01:35:57

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Engelsma for helping to launch that ad campaign by putting me in touch with Bernie Camps and others who are involved in that new magazine.

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That's ignitedbytheword .org. Please tell them that you heard about them from Chris Ornson and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We have what is a very touching email from,

01:47:13

I believe this must be, yes, it must be one of your daughters, Professor Engelsma.

01:47:20

Dear Chris, thanks so much for giving a voice to the truth. I am one of nine of David's daughters, as I tell him often, his favorite.

01:47:30

We all feel we are his favorite, which speaks, I believe, to the love of a human father, to the love a human father displays, which reflects the love of our

01:47:41

Heavenly Father, not because of anything in myself, as anyone with a child knows.

01:47:47

My father is an amazing father, showering his love on all of his children.

01:47:53

Thank you for all you do and your ministry. Kara, and I'm assuming the

01:47:59

David that she's referring to is you. She is. I did not put her up to that.

01:48:06

I had no knowledge that she was going to do that. I'm as surprised by that as probably you are.

01:48:13

Thank you, Kara. Thank you very much, Kara, and I hope you keep listening to the program and spread the word about it.

01:48:23

Let's see. Oh, well, why don't we, since we only have, let's see, we have about 11 minutes left, why don't you let us know if you want to move on from predestination?

01:48:33

Do you have anything else that you want to say about predestination before we run out of time? We could spend 11 more minutes on the doctrine of predestination, but let's move on briefly to the next doctrine in the

01:48:44

Belgic Confession, which is the lengthy and rich exposition of the doctrine of Christ that includes and begins with the truth of the incarnation, which the

01:48:57

Belgic Confession explains as the becoming flesh of the person of the eternal son of God, flesh including both soul and body.

01:49:09

So close is that union of soul and body with the person of Christ that there is in the

01:49:19

Belgic Confession what I regard as a striking statement. So close is the union of the person of Jesus with his human nature that that union remained when

01:49:33

Jesus' body was in the grave. That is, the person of the eternal son of God was in the grave in the body of Jesus.

01:49:43

That, to my mind, is a striking statement, a moving statement. I have this comment, if I may quote once more from my commentary in Volume 1 concerning what the

01:49:58

Confession has to say about the incarnation of the eternal Son of God. From this article of the

01:50:05

Confession, the Reformed believer carries away the conviction that his misery of the guilt of sin is great if what was necessary for his salvation was the wonder of the incarnation of the

01:50:17

Son of God. If the incarnation of the Son of God, the becoming flesh of God the

01:50:23

Son, was necessary for the salvation of humans, Jesus is the only

01:50:29

Savior with none beside, including the sinner himself. And how adorable is the love of God, which is the ultimate source of the incarnation and its salvation.

01:50:40

Now I quote the Confession, out of mere and perfect love, giving his Son unto death for us.

01:50:46

End of quotation, within quotation, and end of quotation. Let's see here.

01:50:53

We have an anonymous listener again. I am at odds with my church because of some of my beliefs, including some of what you have said today.

01:51:07

How can we remain respectful and honorable to the elders above us when getting involved in disagreements over the serious matter that these issues are?

01:51:22

That question occasions, in fact, requires a broad answer, but I will be as brief and to the point as I can possibly be.

01:51:36

Differences over the truth of predestination by grace alone are fundamental issues regarding the gospel.

01:51:46

They are the issue, for one thing, as I have pointed out, of who is the Savior of man.

01:51:53

Is God the Savior, or is man himself the Savior? Is salvation due to God's gracious will in eternity, or is it due to man's will in time?

01:52:05

These issues are so fundamental that they demand that one who believes the gospel of grace, very much including the truth of predestination, cannot remain a member of a church that denies that gospel and opposes that gospel.

01:52:22

Church membership must be decided on the basis of the pure preaching of the word of God, and the preaching of a gospel, so -called, of salvation by the will of the sinner is not the grace of God.

01:52:34

But that separation must take place in an orderly fashion. The questioner and others who share that questioner's convictions present their objections to the ruling body of the church with the evidence in scripture that the gospel of grace, including predestination, is the truth of the word of God.

01:52:58

And if the consistory or ruling body rejects the opposition, then one is called to leave that church and find a true church of Christ that has the marks of the true church.

01:53:12

We're not going to get there, and I'm sorry about that, but there's a very important and powerful article in the

01:53:18

Belgian Confession, Article 28 and Article 29, concerning the marks of the true church and the calling of every believer to be a member of a true church according to the marks and not to be a member, to withdraw membership from a church that shows the marks of a false church or the marks of apostasy.

01:53:39

Well, having said that, however, I think a part, maybe even the primary part or reason for the question from our anonymous listener was he's asking for counsel on how to remain,

01:53:53

I believe, Christ -like and gracious and humble in the way that he is opposing what his church leaders are telling him.

01:54:04

And unfortunately, as you probably know full well, in fact I'm certain you do, Calvinists have sometimes, not always, sometimes, in fact often it is slander, but sometimes

01:54:16

Calvinists have rightly earned the horrible reputation of being arrogant, nasty, proud, and angry people.

01:54:25

We have to be very careful that we don't actually embody the exact opposite character traits of what the doctrines of grace are supposed to do to a human.

01:54:38

I mean, we're not supposed to be exalted and proud and arrogant and nasty about what we believe.

01:54:45

We are supposed to be totally humbled by them, aren't we? That's correct, and that's why

01:54:50

I emphasized in my response one may not behave in a disorderly fashion.

01:54:56

He must honor the authority in the church and he must conduct himself, as you point out, as a humble

01:55:02

Christian. But that doesn't mean that he's not firm, that he doesn't boldly confess the truth of the gospel to the ruling body of the church when he's objecting to the preaching and teaching of the minister.

01:55:17

And in fact, one might, I think and perhaps you would agree with this, if you just can't compose yourself and you're constantly being nasty to your elders, ask for their forgiveness and say that I have to move on because I am obviously sinning in the way that I am responding to you, not because of what

01:55:35

I believe, but in my manner and my tone of voice or what have you, and just wait for a period of cooling off and so on.

01:55:46

You don't want to just keep being involved in ugly shouting matches or anything like that. No sir, we must conduct ourselves even with regard to contending for the faith in a

01:55:56

Christian manner. But I do want to observe that the bad adjectives that are often applied to Calvinists are unfair and unjust and are part of the hatred of the enemies of the gospel of grace for those who confess the gospel of grace.

01:56:13

Those charges are not always correct. Well, we have a listener.

01:56:19

I think this may just be a statement, not a question. We have

01:56:24

Julian in Ballymena, Northern Ireland, and I have to enlarge the font on his email because it's very tiny.

01:56:36

Incomprehensible that the eternal son remained united to the human

01:56:42

Christ even in death, but surely we cannot say the eternal son died.

01:56:50

Yet we say that only the divine son could bear the wrath of God on behalf of all the elect.

01:56:58

I don't know if you need me to repeat that statement and if you could respond to it if you don't need me to repeat it.

01:57:07

No, I get the drift of the question or statement and my response is that the eternal son of God as the eternal son of God did not die and cannot die because God is immortal.

01:57:21

But it is also true that the mystery of salvation and the wonder of the saving act of God can be expressed by the statement the son of God, the eternal son of God died in the human nature.

01:57:37

Now it's the human nature that died, but the person of the son of God gives that death its infinite value so that it's not incorrect to say the eternal son of God died in the human nature just as the eternal son of God was born in the human nature of the child

01:57:58

Jesus. By the way, Julian, if you ever by God's providence happen to bump into my old friend

01:58:06

Pastor John Greer of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ballymena, Northern Ireland, please send him my greetings.

01:58:14

I would appreciate that. Please keep listening to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and spreading the word about it in Northern Ireland and beyond.

01:58:21

Well, we are running out of time, brother, so I'm going to just make sure that we give the website of the

01:58:32

Reformed Free Publishing Association, which provided these copies of your confession that we are giving away.

01:58:44

That's the Reformed Free Publishing Association, and I think it's rfpa .org.

01:58:54

Of course, we want to thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service for shipping our winners out these commentaries at cvbbs .com.

01:59:08

I look forward to interviewing you again, brother, in just a little over a week on Friday, September 10th, here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on hyper -Calvinism.

01:59:22

It's good to talk with you, Chris. I'd like to see you in the face sometime. I listened attentively when you described the dinner you were giving.

01:59:28

You did not offer a free plane trip. I wish

01:59:34

I could afford to fly out here, brother. I want to thank everybody who listened, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater