June 6, 2022 Show with Jim Mento on “Discovering the Outward & Ordinary Means of Grace in Local Church Ministry”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

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Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live Streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Monday on the sixth day of June 2022. I just want to start off the program with a praise report. If you listen regularly to this program, you know that after the midway break every day I Asked people who are listening If they are not a member of a good Christ honoring biblically faithful church.

To send me an email With I need a church in the subject line. Because I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world that I can recommend and I ask our listeners also to Send me an email like that if they have a friend family Member loved one or acquaintance.

Who? Needs a good church home. Well, I back in January. I got an email from a Canadian listener Kevin and I'm not sure what area of Canada he's from but he was vacationing in Arizona and While at a campsite, he met an elderly couple from Poughkeepsie, New York who were near that a campsite they were camping on their own right near that campsite and They met or Kevin I should say met that couple and.

Began.

Having a relaxing time of Pleasant conversation with them discovered that they were in a cult and that they were beginning to reach the point that they wanted to leave that cult and Kevin contacted me because he wanted a church recommendation in Poughkeepsie, New York where this couple lived.

I sent him a couple of recommendations one of which is Vassar Road Baptist Church in Poughkeepsie, New York pastored by dr. Jake Dunlop or Dunlop and That couple Visited that church they got saved and they were baptized yesterday.

So I just wanted to give that praise report. It always gives me Indescribable joy when I hear that God has used iron sharpens iron radio in some fashion to be a conduit to be a means by which he has drawn someone to salvation and I am still praising God for that after hearing that wonderful news and Keep those emails coming folks because I always love helping people find Biblically solid churches and speaking of biblically solid churches.

We are going to be interviewing today someone from a church that Definitely fits that description. We have a first-time guest today pastor Jim Mento of Bible Baptist Church of Liverpool Pennsylvania, this is a church where one of my pastors Simon O'Maney conducted a conference not long ago and Today pastor Mento is going to be discussing a very important subject.

We have discussed this before on the program. But it's the kind of a subject that I think bears repeating. We are going to be discussing The theme discovering the outward and ordinary means of grace in local church ministry.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to iron sharpens iron radio pastor Jim Mento.

Hi, good afternoon and.

Pastor Jim, please. Tell our listeners about Bible Baptist Church of Liverpool, Pennsylvania.

Yeah, we're. We're a local body of believers 25 or so. Minutes north. In a gospel. And how would you describe the church theologically? You know, our men are our teaching men are we're Baptistic and distinctive online Distinctives.

So if you come and visit the tenants of the tenants of the church, yeah.

I guess and if anybody wants more details about the Bible Baptist Church of Liverpool, Pennsylvania The website is Bible Baptist Church of Liverpool org Bible Baptist Church of Liverpool or just like Liverpool England Li V as in victory er P as in Peter ool and We hope that you will visit that website and more importantly visit that congregation.

Especially if you live in or near Liverpool, Pennsylvania or happen to be traveling through there on a Lord's Day. Well We have a tradition here on iron sharpens iron radio pastor Jim whenever we have a first-time guest That would include you.

We have that guest. Give a summary of their salvation testimony that would include. The kind of religious atmosphere if any in which they were raised. The kinds of Providential circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up in that individual's life that drew himself or herself To God and saved them.

And. We'd love to hear your story now.

Sure Salvation is of the Lord. I Devout Roman Catholic. Southern, New Jersey. Italian Catholic family. So it's kind of like the Marines. Yeah, we were very devout. We were sinners all the men. Learned the how I was really young child Italian Catholic grandmother at the sound of their grandchild in some way.

Having an interest in the Catholic priesthood. So after high school, I was actually in a seminary for a little while side and a real Catholic seminary. Actually carried over into a Bible College and seminary once born again and studying for the ministry.

So I joke in some sense, but it's not really a joke. It's God's providence the Roman Catholic Church actually paid for my first year and a half of a Bible College. The way that works out was I was in the seminary for a while.

Like I said, I was go to work. My mother was sick. Died in that time I just decided to stay Out of the seminary and get a job. I met a young lady was raised in a Pentecostal background actually. But at the time was not a attending any any church Presence at all.

We began dating very attend mass with what is this? What is that? What's up with the statues? What is the whole thing with Mary? The church the Catholic Assembly that I was part of. Had a huge Marian devotion even to the point of every July 16th, even to this day.

Taking statues out of the church building and parading them around the streets very old world kind of stuff so there was there was those things I say the one Misjudgment of her wisdom was that she she accepted my marriage proposal.

We were married and My wife then began asking me even deeper questions about about Roman Catholicism as a seminary. You know as some time in the seminary and kind of being raised up through I had a grasp of canon law.

I had a grasp of some of the tradition behind those things certainly the Family life that I had was just steeped in this kind of devout tradition. And I would give her answers, but none of them sufficed.

And even though she came from a Pentecostal background by God's grace said Providence. He allowed her never to be satisfied unless I could bring her to the Bible. With anything that I said regarding the faith and that really challenged if your proof text is this Bible which It's just so interesting growing up.

We had Bibles in the house, but they were just other Kinds of relics, you know, they were always dusty. They were never open. It was there was never an encouragement to read them. They they they served the same purpose as say a st. Joseph's staff.

They were just kind of there. My wife read the Bible and she Followed as an authority which was very odd to me and and that you know growing up as a Roman Catholic going to a seminary. There was never the statement that the Bible had authority.

It was always the Magisterium was always the Bishop Rick it was always all that to say I Picked up a Bible and began to read it. Really her nagging question was purgatory. We had a as most Roman Catholic churches do a very intricate system of Purgatorial masses being said they were still selling masses indulgent masses.

Indulgence masses. I should know and they still do they they still do and and I had told her one time Interesting. I told her to to stand in line with everyone else and and buy a mass for this. We we were not an arguing couple, but this really kind of led I don't remember an argument, but I need to prove I again her authority was the Bible.

I thought well, I'll go to the Bible and then we were newly book edition of the back the way. But she has it was an NIV student Bible if you're familiar with that. There's little some of them good some of the I began reading.

I thought well David was a general a king. I liked history. I was an avid history reader, you know popular. I thought I'd read that and I'm not kidding you. It took me a where David's life was in the Bible.

I had no idea. It wasn't it was there. Why why would why would you didn't he learned his own book I thought you know and again at the time so. Anyway, I began reading and I just I began reading it through turning but I read it in the morning before work I read it.

Yeah, we read it together. My wife was very patient. She never Probed me or prodded me or she would just read along. There was never an overarching kind of teaching moment or anything like that. It was just I was reading she read then I obviously came to the Gospels and a Roman Catholic would tell you They're familiar with the Gospels.

They're read every Sunday. I was actually a one of the people at the Roman Catholic to read the readings a lectern Able to do that. So I had some familiarity with you know, just kept reading through and then I got to Romans one and next to Roman scene in 17, there is a in the in the NIV student Bible, there is a synopsis of Martin Luther being just Thunderstruck appalled.

I didn't know much about Protestantism. But what I knew growing up was that he was errant. Yes. What was it? What what was it that the our heretic Luther solemnly? I'd never heard of not of man out of sack not of to believe on the Lord Jesus.

It's like like Luther said the gates of heaven were I dare say I I cannot remember a date or a time. I probably have a year Narrowed down and maybe a month or at least a season of the year. I think it was in the fall.

When I was I had just turned I rushed to my wife and I I said have you heard this before? And she said yeah, I've I've heard it before and How wonderful I would say that the Spirit of God took that word and wielded it yielded it into my soul.

And and since then and since that point being sanctified some turns ups and downs. But God is faithful and the gospel is the power of God unto self. I live by faith. So In a sense, I'm learning that text I think as many of us do as we we learn that text Daily, it's not moment by moment to this day.

Now, how did you come to discover and embrace the doctrines known as? The doctrines of sovereign grace the doctrines of Calvinism reform theology comes by a number of nicknames. Yeah, how did you come to discover and embrace these truths that you and I both hold?

So very dear.

Interesting enough that wasn't an easy discovery. I can't say that I had. Even you know, I was 21 I was reading the Bible just as much as I could. My wife and I at that point began reading together. Just as you know kind of a groundwork to Explain it.

We read through the Bible. We still read through it. But we actually read through the Bible poignantly and purposely. Three, I think maybe four times In the in the consecutive years. I should say from that point as I knew that that.

That what I heard in the Catholic Church, well, it just wasn't right. There was no reason to resacrifice Jesus Christ. There was no no reason to to go to a priest. At the time I was was working with a born-again Christian that had just come to the shop about the same time.

But I was I would say the Lord said and he would listen to WFIL radio at a Philadelphia.

That was a sister station or is. Is a sister station of the station where I worked for 15 years WMCA 570 a .m. In New York, and we would meet with the leadership There at WFIL annually for sales summits in Maryland and Have other opportunities from time to time, but very familiar with the station.

Yeah, and and I.

Had never heard anything like that before you know, so it's not as if we think that we listen but Of us were newly married. We could and we would go out at night and do oil service kind of out in the middle of nowhere.

And he would put this radio station on and I had I was just more, you know the lineup. So there was like the guys on there, but then there was this one guy. He didn't sound like like anybody else and I'm just so good in my life and That was JM voice.

I never met him. I'll meet him in glory, but I can. I could hear his Blessedly gravelly voice. Yes and all these these texts went deep. He didn't go broad. He didn't go wide. He went a shadow on any other.

I didn't know it then but it was expected to fast forward give you a background kind of a Evangelical life your whole life is is wrapped into picking up my cross and following Christ. I was keeping it easy and so on.

I tried to share the gospel with them that were Roman Catholic and they they let me go and do those kinds of things long. I was as I was at Jersey into central, Pennsylvania and So he moved moved me to a Bible Church from there.

I can't say that I wanted to know more of the scriptures. I wanted to know more theology and I went to Bible College. I worked nights at the shop and then went to Bible College during the day. I was about five years shy of everything being online like it is today.

And so I did it the hard way the old-fashioned way and they're not reformed. I didn't know that was the term. Yeah, I'm still new to all these things. I didn't know these terms. I said I was an old guy.

You know going back your undergrad and the seminary library and in the college was like the lights wouldn't work back there. You know, it's just way in the back some of these books while I'm going through these not reform.

I'm going through these books and I see authors. By the name of I see authors Theology of Worship by turn of God really didn't understand help me understand some of those. But nonetheless people that he quoted I went back and began reading.

Found that a lot of these publishing company called banner of truth and I looked them up and began by BB Warfield began reading that redemption accomplished and applied John Murray. Oh, yeah, and I just all forgotten Spurgeon.

Well, I didn't know much of Spurgeon. I didn't even know I had forgotten Forgotten Spurgeon and I begin reading that yeah, and Murray.

Classic.

Yeah, and so I just and I I just went into anything I can find from a wonderful time. Took my oral exam and had to write a thesis and I'll never forget the prof who was kind of the The head overseer of all that he said, you know, hey, we're passing yeah, I know you don't agree with anything that you said, but We're passing you because you you answered our question as I was studying in a non reform.

What was it at JM voices? How did he preach? Where did he get the God hermeneutic? But but from that from that world and you begin reading them through doctrine of predestination you begin reading that through tell you now that there was that doesn't hold because the Bible is in these.

That makes sense or that that answers the question. Yes, really just cutting coming through it and you know and sometimes I didn't know like the arguments between you know, the five points and whatever I Praise God, he kind of kept me from that and I came to it afterwards when I would hear these arguments, but for me, it was just being in the word and Having these men that God blessed his church with these many centuries ago.

Just kind of taking me by the hand and amen.

Well, we have to go to our first break right now if anybody would like to send us a question for pastor Jim Mento. And again, our theme today is going to be Discovering the outward and ordinary means of grace in local church ministry.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Don't remain anonymous unless this is about a personal and private matter over which you are asking and since Jim Mento is a pastor we will broaden the Theme of questions over which you may ask. You may ask pastoral questions as well.

But we are hoping that the majority of our questions will be on The actual theme discovering the outward and ordinary means of grace and local church ministry. Don't go away. We're gonna be right back with pastor Jim Mento right after these messages.

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Welcome back. Our guest today is Jim Mento pastor of Bible Baptist Church of Liverpool, Pennsylvania, and we are discussing discovering the outward and ordinary means of grace in local church ministry.

Well, first of all for those of our listeners who may be new Christians or they may be Members of churches that are outside the orbit of reformed churches who might not ordinarily no pun intended use Terminology like we are accustomed to hearing.

But if you could define the outward and ordinary means of grace.

Order catechism. What are the outward and ordinary means? Whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption. The outward and ordinary means the answer goes whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption are his ordinances.

Especially the word all which are made effectual to the preaching of the lens or the ordinances and prayer ordinary Means they are business ordinances. We see they are visible. We see the elements of the table we We hear outward and ordinary and the reason why they're called not that they're they're a Simple and then a time of prayer and and and not that they're diminished or something.

So so in that he communicates. And it's his will to commune we kind of get but in our culture today ordinary before well while we're at it.

We might as well have you give a definition of grace because Grace is a highly misunderstood concept. I actually did. Conducted a two-hour interview not long ago. In fact, I would highly recommend our listeners to look that up on the iron sharpens iron radio website iron sharpens iron radio .com if you look to Podcast past shows.

You will find if you type into the search engine sasser s a SS er you'll find very recent interview I conducted with pastor William aka bill sasser on. We'd spent two hours discussing that very one concept grace.

Because it is highly misunderstood we have Even amongst evangelical Protestants. Misunderstandings and disagreements. The reformed within Christianity have a somewhat different view of grace than the Arminian Evangelical Christians.

The Roman Catholics have an extremely different understanding of grace than biblical Christians. Cults use this word false world religions use this word grace and people use it in common vernacular. That aren't even Religious individuals at all.

So as far as what you see as a biblical understanding of grace. Can you define that for us, please?

Sure. Well, it's of God the unmerited love of God when you begin to unpack it It just keeps coming. We keep digging deep into it. But as we as we just kind of deal with that one sentence and what you just referenced highly recommended that podcast.

Such thoughtful view and such thoughtful regard to Understanding grace, but but just for for this time a lot of God's unmerited to up as a Roman Catholic. That was completely antithetical to what I was taught and in the end books view of grace is nothing more than work.

You have to try to make it not sound as such. Away the the enamel on her only understands. It's because her tradition will only allow it to be understood and and local Catholic ministry will only allow it to be understood.

Is that what you earn? And sadly, like you said Chris, there's many in the evangelical landscape. That's still consider grace as something earned something that born with in an ability to To conjure or know all of that is.

It's just another word for work grace. And this is this is why I love the language of the Bible. We don't get to define the words. The words Had their own definition when they were being used and even doesn't that term even?

Unmerited favor doesn't that also need a little unpacking because I Have heard and I think These men of God have aptly put it this way that the grace of God that saves us is.

Even.

More specifically ill merited favor if I'm walking down the street and A homeless person holds up a cup and I throw some change in there. That was unmerited favor, but he didn't earn that money. He didn't Do anything that would necessarily?

Make me think that I owed him that. But if that person Who is homeless? I had already discovered That he murdered everyone in my family and burned my home down And I still gave him that money. That would be more Comparative to what Christ has done for us, is it not?

It wasn't that he didn't know if he knew and knows that we are our rebels. What you probe and what you come up with we probe that meaning and believe it or not.

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Please thank our advertisers and also send in your questions the pastor Jim Mento as we continue to discover The outward and ordinary means of grace in local church ministry. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations. A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn.

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