A Few Thoughts on the Crush of the World, Responses to Pullmann/Hess

And greetings, welcome to The Dividing Line. Just seeing this come across Twitter. McDonald's bows to pressure and closes all its Russian restaurants. Now that is fighting below the belt. No more, no more quarter pounders of cheese.

No more Big Macs. The worst part is no more French fries, because everybody knows that there's some kind of drug in McDonald's French fries. And I'm sure you know what it is, because you are Mr. McDonald's.

Most people do not know. But but Rich is they is a McDonald's expert, not because he went there so much, but because he actually worked there at times past and has a degree from Hamburger U. Do you not?

He he he has he put his head down. It's like, yeah, sort of like that, but has a degree from Hamburger U. So he probably knows what what the addicting element is that makes you even want to eat the last half of a fry in the bottom.

It's the one the one that's in the bag. It's not even hot anymore because it fell out in the bag and you still eat it because there's something addicting in it. And I think cutting that cutting anyone off from that, I think, is probably a war crime right there.

Well, welcome to the program. I'll just be perfectly honest with you, I I would not know how to comment on current world events if I wanted to. Not in any meaningful fashion in the sense of. Knowing what's going on, I mean, I was on last week.

On Iron Sharpens Iron with Chris Arnzen and and my friend Nick from Irpin. And that was about the day before it. It hit the fan right there, and I have had people there telling me that it is it is now lying in ruins.

I've been told that he's that that Nick, however, is going to be back on with Chris. Maybe tomorrow. I hope that is possible. I certainly will listen if that's the case. But so. I've I've seen video and pictures of roads I recognize.

I've driven up and down them. I started going there in 2014, I think was the first year that I went there. In fact, I landed right as the State Department warned Americans not to go to Ukraine. So I was there during whatever that revolution was.

And so, you know, I know that my Ukrainian friends talk to me about the. The corruption that is just this marks the Ukrainian government, just like the Russian government. And that there's a lot of parallels between the two along those lines, things like that.

But I don't know the back back stories. I don't know. You know, I've seen I've seen stuff on both sides. And man, if you listen to one side, then you're you're buying into this stuff and have listened to the other side and you're buying into that stuff.

And never before has mankind had access to more information and yet has less understanding of what's actually going on. It's I know this, if you if you spend more than half an hour. Contemplating all the negative scenarios that are before us.

You will live in a state of utter depression. You will be distracted. From doing good for your own soul, your family, for your neighbors. You'll be distracted from the word of God and prayer. And I'm just speaking from personal experience, OK?

I'm just going to be honest, I mean. Is anybody is anyone going to argue with me about this, that you haven't experienced some of these very same things? And so I think we have to. Draw a line. And we have to recognize that.

This is a time to live out your faith. And when you think of all the horrible negative possible futures. You have to recognize that whatever that future is, it's in the hands of God and he's going to use it to make you more like Jesus.

And it's so easy to say that. It's something completely different to live that. But whatever that future is going to make you more like Christ. If. If you will. Allow his spirit to work within you and to conform you to the image of Christ.

And the only thing that gets in the way of that is your love of stuff, because that's the stuff we're going to be losing. I mean, I, I have honestly been thinking about, you know, some of the little things that I like to eat.

Like to drink, I like cold, cold ice water in Arizona is a wonderful thing. Doesn't even have to be flavored. Just cold ice water. There are people who don't have ice water and there have been for decades.

And we've been blessed. We may not have it in the future. OK, are you going to be. Are you going to allow that to cause you to be a person who complains against God's providence and God doesn't love me anymore and et cetera, et cetera, we've had it so easy for so long.

And so just some thoughts does lead me to mention one thing. In trying to make plans for the future, I noticed that. Someone who remained nameless was criticizing me, I think sometime over the weekend, I think.

Someone posted a video where they were accusing me of inconsistency because I had been invited to go to have a conversation in Northern California somewhere. I'd say, I'm not going to California. It's just a big communist state, even though my wife's there at the moment.

And and then we've announced that I'm going to be that I'm supposed to be going to the G3 conference at the Museum of the Bible in Washington, D .C. It's like, see, you're a hypocrite. You you said you wouldn't go to that conversation in California, but Washington, D .C. is just as bad as California, which it is.

Of course, Josh Bice will tell you that when he called me to ask me to be a part of that. I was on my hands and knees in my fifth wheel. Mopping up water, because that was the day that I had driven south from. Arkansas and did not realize that I still had a sheet of ice on the slide out, and so the slide out came in, it's warmer inside.

And so I was literally on my hands and knees mopping up the water from the melted ice inside my fifth wheel. And the first thing I said to Josh was, well, it all depends on what that the entirety of the covid stuff was pure politics, because golly, Bob, it as we get close to the midterms, it's all gone away and the mandates are going away.

And I happen to notice the at the White House briefing yesterday, you could actually understand what the reporters were saying because they weren't muzzled anymore. What a shocking and amazing thing that is.

So in all probability. Might be able to avoid masking vaccine mandates, but the first thing I said to him is as long as I don't have to put genetic poison in my body and as long as I don't have to restrict my breathing and endanger my health in that way, then we'll find a way to make it work.

And the first thing I did after agreeing to do that on that basis was trying to find the closest red state that I can park my unit. And then just in and back out again. And I think I've found one or two possibilities that are that'll work.

I mean, I won't be able to use the unit. I'll just have to store it basically like an RV park. So anyways, I was being consistent in in what I was saying, but people were accusing me of all that kind of strange stuff anyway.

Just weird what happens in the world today. But I realize that the. The only power. And you've heard me say it a thousand times before, but I'm repeating it in the only power this world has to cause me to be fearful is loving stuff and the the application, though, there's one aspect that I need to bring up.

I know a lot of folks that are excited about what we're going to be doing on the next trip that we're planning for April. We're going up to I'm going up through Utah. Man, that is such a weird state of going up through Utah.

Utah, which is literally becoming a purple state, but it's confused. So you have red states, you got blue states, got purple states. And I think Utah is a green state because they don't know what they are.

I mean, you literally have the Salt Lake City Council doing stuff that you'd expect out of the San Francisco City Council. It's just so strange up there. Anyways, we're going up to Utah. We're going to be planning on hopefully doing some, maybe having a debate, dialogue, something.

We'll certainly be doing some training at some of the churches up there, obviously, with the churches we've been to in the past, as well as the fact Apologia has a church plan up there that I've not been to yet.

And so definitely want to be a part of that and see what's going on there and preach and so on and so forth. But I don't know that we've mentioned, I think I mentioned finally last week on the program that on April 22nd, the plan right now is that I will be doing a debate with Doug Wilson on the subject of paedo-communion in Moscow, Idaho.

Now, we'll also be doing some other stuff. We're supposed to be doing Man Rampant and like two sweater vest dialogues and some other stuff where we're working together and saying the same things, but we're going to have a debate.

And we've had debates in the past. I'm one of the people he's debated in writing and in person more often than anybody else. And that just drives people insane that we can actually do that kind of thing.

But I just love watching people stomp their feet, scratch their heads, stuff like that, both in regards to Doug Wilson and Michael Brown. It's like, well, listen to what we're saying. You'll figure it out eventually.

Anyway, so we've been planning this for a while and you know how I travel now. And the possibility does exist that the mask mandates for the flights may be removed. Interestingly enough, you know who's fighting that the hardest?

The flight attendant unit. Which just amazes me because you look at the numbers. Almost all of the problems that the flight attendants are having with violence and unruly passengers is all about masking.

So why they are the last one standing demanding that this continue to happen? But that could end next week. Really could. So a lot of people are like, well, are you going to start flying again? Well, first of all, I've lost all my privileges.

I had high standing, which makes a huge difference in how travel is. I could do it and I survived it. I flew 165 ,000 miles in 2019. But I had high standing. I was executive platinum, all the rest of that stuff.

It makes it a whole lot easier. So I don't have a whole lot of interest in it, in flying. I have concerns because of how quickly, just because these mandates are disappearing does not mean we've learned our lesson.

In fact, the lesson that the tyrants have learned is these people do whatever we tell them to do, whenever we tell them to do it. All we have to do is scare them. They have removed, they have, what's the term for a spinectomy?

That's what's happened to people in the West through the educational system. The spine has been removed. And so that stuff could come back in a second. And that's why, you know, I look at going overseas and that could happen at any moment.

And so, I guess Rich got tired of that perspective, so we're back over here now. Anyway, here's the issue. Minimally, the trip up to Moscow right now, assuming that gas supplies remain available, will cost twice what it did before.

I mean, the foods could be more expensive, but most importantly, I've got a 26-gallon tank on my truck. And especially going up is, you know, through the Rockies, there'd be mountains in the way. And so, yeah, it'll cost twice what it did before.

So, basically putting that out there and basically say to our listening audience, if you want to see a debate on paedo-communion, because I think it's a perfect topic because it sheds light on the, you know, we've done paedo-baptism, and the same issues will be involved, but from a completely different perspective.

And so, I think it's going to be extremely valuable. I think Doug is the best person to do this with. I think it'll be done collegially, and therefore there won't be all the other stuff that gets in the way.

Though, let's be honest, the two debates that I've done were collegial, and nothing got in the way there either. And I'm thankful for that. What I mean by stuff getting in the way, look, there are debates where sometimes people are far more concerned about who's going to win than how they behave.

And so, yeah, yeah, that does happen. That's not going to happen in this situation. And so, I'm just putting it out there that I know that things are going to be more and more challenging for everyone, but if Rich tells me that he starts getting donations to the travel fund that are specifically marked, make sure to get to Idaho and back.

By the way, we would need enough money to get to Idaho and back. Halfway really doesn't cut it. Yeah, stand by the side of the road next to my RV. Could you pull me? That's not going to work too well.

But if Rich tells me he starts seeing travel fund donations that specifically are marked gas for Idaho, then that's people's way of saying, yes, please, not only do the debates and the recording of stuff up there and the training up in Utah, but the churches along the way.

The places that people normally don't stop. The flyover country becomes drive-thru country with when I'm doing things the way I'm doing things. So, I want to put that out there that last time, well, last time I went up there was during that first spike, but we could literally be looking at double the cost easily, just as far as gas is concerned.

Get up there and back again. So, we put that out there and go from there. So, all right. A few comments made there along the way at the beginning. I need to lay aside the fact that I don't know everything that's going on in the world and could not possibly untangle the knotted mess that is presented to us every single day and the fact that I honestly recognize that my nation is led by its enemies now.

I truly believe we've been taken over from the inside and that the people in charge do not have our best interest in mind at all and just go, Lord, it's in your hands. Need to lay all of that aside and let's talk about Scripture and let's talk about things that will be important at any point in history, were in the past, are in the present, and will be in the future as well.

And the secular mind goes, no. But we want to be a part of pushing the kingdom of Christ forward against the secularism of our day, which I again believe is one of the greatest enemies that has ever stood in opposition to Jesus Christ.

And so, what we're going to do is, I have on our wonderful board, and I keep getting people asking us questions, by the way, and I go ahead and I tell people, but we get people asking questions, what is this thing?

And I've had the folks at the seminary that I teach for, at Grace Bible Theological Seminary, another excellent Reform Baptist seminary that's standing firm as well, just asked me only a couple days ago, what is that thing?

We need one. It's like, yes, yes. It is a Samsung Flip 2, Flipboard 2, and so obviously we are using it in a wired format at the moment. I've been told that there actually is now a Mac app that we're going to go ahead and install, and I just decided that we're not going to do that until we can do plenty of testing.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But this is a Samsung Flipboard, and I am using Accordance Bible software on it, and you've seen what we're able to do with that, and it is wonderful and awesome and all that kind of, and we haven't honestly really scratched the surface of what this can do, because you can preload stuff on it.

I haven't actually been pretty much of a wimp in my use of it, but you can preload things and then drag screens across and have stuff already there and run it off a jump drive and off the net and go onto the net with it and do all sorts of stuff that I haven't been doing, but it is really nice to be able to do this kind of stuff and then to use it as a standard chalkboard, blackboard, whiteboard, whatever you want to do with it.

You can use different backgrounds and stuff like that. So for those asking the questions, there you go. Alright, so having said all of that, what we're going to do is I'm going to be responding to the next section from the Paulman Hess review of the Potter's Freedom, and again, I mentioned last time, or the time before one of the two, just not even sure how much I want to invest in this, but as I think you'll see here, we are able to address important subjects exegetically and theologically that are raised here that are common objections, and as long as that remains useful, great, fine, wonderful.

Once it becomes something less than that, then we move on. So we are set up with audio, Lord willing. It worked before things got started anyways. We were set up with audio, and let's dive into it. Right, and then God, then he says on page 69, Okay, by the way, once again, this is the edition that is being reviewed.

I don't know why. This isn't the current edition, but the original edition of the Potter's Freedom, so the page numbers will correspond to that, not to the current edition of the book. It's not presented in CBF, Chosen But Free, as the free and sovereign elector, but the one who responds to the free choices of men.

Okay, free and sovereign elector. So the choice of how God's going to glorify himself comes completely from God, or God chooses parameters and then man fills in the rest. These are the two positions being contrasted, and that's where the contrast has been down through church history.

How does.

That get responded to? I never got, like, Calvinists have, like, such a big problem if God responds. Like, what's wrong with God being responsive? I thought he was free. Right, but he's not free to be responsive if he wants.

I mean, it's another false dichotomy. What if God freely and sovereignly wanted to elect.

To salvation those who believe? Now, think about, for a moment, that is Mr. Paulman speaking there, and obviously his position calls himself a historical Arminian, is that the extent of God's choice is that God chooses to save those who believe.

He does not choose who he's going to save, so it is an impersonal choice. His choice is a plan. His choice is to provide an opportunity, but it's up to man, which was the point that I was making. And that is the Roman Catholic perspective, as well, because God chooses a sacramental system, and it's up to mankind to fulfill that sacramental system.

But this has been the dividing line all along, and so the idea is, well, why couldn't God be free to do it this way? Well, the question is, does Scripture say that? But the point is that it is a fundamentally different assertion.

It is the difference between saying God chooses a plan and saying God chooses a people. One is personal, one is not. Just that simple. I guess I'm over here talking to you.

It's just that simple. I mean, Scripture literally says this, 1 Corinthians 121, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. White just doesn't consider that possibility.

Now, please, I want.

Everyone to catch. How many times this is said. I just don't even... But what was the.

Terminology here? To save those who believe. White just doesn't consider that.

Possibility. Just doesn't consider that possibility. This is asserted over and over again almost any point where there is a difference of perspective. I just don't even consider the other side, allegedly.

When the reality is, to any person who's read the book, and that's why I said before, I don't believe this review is for people who actually have read the book. It is intended to keep people from reading the book.

Because if you read the book, you will realize that neither of these gentlemen have a high reading comprehension level. They break context, they break things apart, they don't see how a chapter is flowing, they don't see what the argument is.

As far as reviewers go, they really, really, really bad. I don't know how, I don't know what kind of grades they've gotten in doing book reviews, but it's really poor. But the assertion is, you've never even given that consideration, he's just ignorant of these things, etc. etc.

As we'll see, the book itself demonstrates that's not true.

For White, either election is unconditional or it's not sovereign. But he gives us no reason to think that it can't be both conditional and sovereign, which just so happens to be what virtually every non-Calvinist believes.

Now, please notice.

What he's trying to say there. It is both, the term that he's using there for sovereignty is that God has chosen an impersonal. He's chosen class election, but you get to fill in who the class is. And the whole point of the book is, that's the issue.

That's the whole point. Does God get to elect a particular people personally, or has he sovereignly chosen only to elect a process, a mechanism whereby people can be saved? So, I actually just realized that I had had this set up properly before, but, and again, I can't wait until I come up with, I think I got it there, 1st Corinthians chapter 1, and I believe, yes, there it is, verse 21 is the verse that was cited, saying, well see, it's right here!

Here is exactly what I'm saying. This is what the Bible teaches, that God was well pleased, the foolishness of the message preached, to save those who believe. So there it is! God saves those who believe, not those that he chooses.

Okay, this is where we can help Mr. Paulman with the issue of context, and reading things in context, very, very helpful, and very, very important. So, Paul, in writing to the Corinthians, he says, in verse 17, for Christ not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

So, he's talking about preaching the gospel, and he says, the word of the cross, now we've gone over this over and over and over again, so I'm not going through all the grammar and stuff like that again, um, because we've, it wasn't only a few, it was just a few weeks ago that we did this very section, but we're gonna, we're doing it in a little different bit of a context, uh, right here.

So, the word of the cross is foolishness to whom? We need to just recognize that the text introduces us to two different groups. To, on the one hand, those who are perishing, and on the other hand, so, men day, so here's your men day, so on the one, this on one hand, this on the other hand.

So, the message of the cross is to those who are perishing foolishness, but to those who are being saved, it is the power of God. And so, right here in the context, you have the introduction of these two classes of the perishing and those who are being saved.

Now, the synergist will say, and that's just completely up to their own choice. Well, let's, let's see if that's the case. Let's see if, if that, um, continues on, uh, through the rest of the text. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the cleverness of the clever I will set aside.

Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater or the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not come to know God.

So, hmm, that needs to be kept in mind. The world through its wisdom does not come to know God. God was well pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save the believing ones. Well, no one's denying that believing ones are saved.

The question is, who are these believing ones? For indeed, Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom. But we proclaim Christ estaro menon, crucified, to the Jews indeed a scandalon, to the Gentiles morion, foolishness.

But, right here, and we'll go ahead and activate the screen again. So, we have a scandal to the Jews, foolishness to the Gentiles, but to those who are what? Tois kletois, to the called, to the called ones.

Now, the very meaning of kletois requires an external force that does the calling. This is not people calling themselves, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ, the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

So, Christ is seen as the power of God and the wisdom of God if you are the called, whether Jews or Greeks. If you're not amongst the called, then Christ is foolishness, a scandalon. Christ is either a scandalon or foolishness.

So, what makes the difference? Calling, right there. Calling. It's in the context, right? This is the same context, right? Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For look to your what? Your calling, brethren. Look to your calling. That there are not many wise, according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, but God has what? Now, this is a, it's a related term.

God has chosen. God has chosen the foolish things of the world. Then you might shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world. So, there's God's, and notice what comes afterwards. God's choice, God's choice.

Not our choice, God's choice. That he might shame the things which are strong. The base things of the world, and the despised, God has chosen. Notice something here? You see a pattern here? Three times in a row, God has chosen.

Not we chose, God has chosen the base things of the world, and the despised, things that are not, so he might nullify the things that are. Why? So that Passa, Sarx, and Opion, all flesh before God may not what?

Boast. May not boast. No boasting. Oh, but I'm, I'm prime meat. I'm choice meat. I followed the Father, and because I followed the Father, then I'm prime meat, and so I will, will be given to the Son as a result of my having been following the Father.

We'll see that in John 6. Well, that's the exact opposite we'll see in John 6, but that's the argument. A lot of people don't see this, because maybe it just doesn't jump out at folks, but this is sort of vitally important.

Ex altu, but by his doing, you are in Christ Jesus. By his doing, you are in Christ Jesus, and again, the sinner just goes, of course, of course, it's all of God. God made the way possible, and God extended the grace, and what we're going to discover for Palman and Haas, Palman and Haas have a massive role of Arminian duct tape.

Arminian duct tape. What is, what is Arminian duct tape? Arminian duct tape is called prevenient grace, okay? Prevenient grace. We got prevenient grace. Grace that comes before and enables, and if you listen carefully, I don't even think they realize how often they rely upon this, but their idea is God has given everybody prevenient grace, and this prevenient grace evidently somehow undoes the result of original sin.

Everybody's brought back to a moral neutral point where they can then make a free decision. Everybody gets prevenient grace. The one thing they forget to do is ever demonstrate where the Bible talks about prevenient grace, because here's the problem.

It never does, but the Arminian system is held together. Remember, I've told the story in the past, and I have to tell it again because it's important. Back when I was a younger, you know, young teen, maybe even before my teen years, I wanted to have those really cool models of B -17s and jet aircraft and stuff like that, but I was not the most patient young man, and the instructions would say, glue this part to that part, set aside to allow to dry.

For like 20 minutes, I didn't want to wait that long, and so I'd glue them together, and then I'd use cellophane tape. I'd tape the stuff together. That didn't work well. That really, really did not work well, but that's what prevenient grace is.

It's the cellophane tape that holds the entire Arminian system together. Without it, it all just explodes all over the place. There's one problem. It's nowhere in Scripture. I'm not just simply saying the obvious thing that the phrase prevenient grace does not appear in Scripture.

What I'm saying is the entire concept of an unsaving grace that is not even intended to save, but is only intended to remove the effects of the fall so that man is in a position of moral neutrality. There is nothing in Scripture that even hints at such a concept.

I remember I mentioned on the program a couple years ago, I'd purchased a book called Prevenient Grace. I'm like, you know, I'd like to see how this is substantiated, and so I start reading this book, and I'm stunned.

I'm just stunned. The whole thing is, well, it has to exist, otherwise the Calvinists are right. Oh, okay. That's great argumentation. At least there's some honesty there. So when they see, but by him, by his doing, ex autu, you are in Christ Jesus, as long as you have this prevenient grace idea up here, you go, oh, well, yes, you see, God gives prevenient grace, and he makes things available, and that's his part.

So by his making it available, you put yourself in Christ Jesus. Paul said, but by his doing, you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom of God, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption, and notice the importance of the context here, so that just as it is written, let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.

That's the same sentence. By him, you are in Christ Jesus, in order that just as it stands written, the one boasting in the Lord, let him boast. You're going to boast. You can't boast in yourself, and so if you have a system where you can take by him and turn it into by me, you don't understand what the New Testament's saying.

You don't get it, okay? Now, this is the context, 1 Corinthians. This is called doing echo Jesus in context, and so you have the election of God before, you have the election of God after, and so when you get to the one verse that was quoted by Paulman, where he says, well, look, yeah, you know, it's right there in verse 21.

God was well pleased with the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. Who are those who believe? Those who are called by God. So there you go. Sort of important to look at context each and every time that we look at, this is interesting.

I was actually seeing where my cursor was on the screen over there, right? And over here, it's actually sort of helpful to do it that way. All right, we press.

Forward. Yeah, yeah, let's just briefly hit it. You know, he quotes the 1689 Baptist Confession on page 68. R .C. Sproul, page 69 through 70. Charles Hyde. Now, let me just mention in passing.

Here, one of the criticisms that Paulman repeats a number of times, and I don't know if you've noticed, but there's a real tone to the young man's voice, and what you'll hear a number of times is, why aren't you quoting Arminians?

You say Arminians believe this, but why aren't you quoting Arminians? And of course, it's a book responding to Norman Geisler, specifically, who called himself a moderate Calvinist. We were demonstrating that moderate Calvinism is Arminianism, but that's what we're responding to.

But you need to be quoting Arminians. And there was a whole discussion about how many Arminians were quoted in the book, and I have all sorts of Arminians in my library, and if I wanted to write a different book than a response to Norman Geisler, then I might have done that.

But it's fascinating. You need to be quoting Arminians, and then we listen to this. Yeah, yeah, let's just.

Briefly hit it. You know, he quotes the 1689 Baptist Confession on page 68. R .C. Sproul, page 69 through 70. Charles Hyde, page 71. And that's a really long quote there. So let me just reiterate again, I don't really care how many people agree with what he's saying.

I'm really a lot more interested in what the scripture has to say. And perhaps the reason why White feels the need to quote these sources in support of his views is because he can't quote scripture to support them.

I just, I don't regard these sources as authoritative, and I mean, as a good reformer who believes in sola scriptura, neither should White.

Right. Again, I just, I can't believe that Mr. Paulman has this bad an ability to read a book, and to, I mean, anybody out there who's read this is sitting there going, what is this kid talking about?

The book is thick with exegesis. It's thick with biblical citation. But I'm defining the parameters and the issues, historically, in these first chapters. And what's interesting is, they're about to get to the section on a biblical anthropology, they skip over the vast majority of my biblical citations, and don't even try to respond to them.

And what's the, what's the way they do it? Prevenient grace. Well, if he's got prevenient grace, he wouldn't have to read all this stuff. The incoherence and the contradiction is pretty astonishing. It really is.

But we continue. It's either, because you say in Reformed Theology that we are incapable of seeing or responding to God unless he does it for us. So it has to be by coercion. By definition, it has to be by coercion.

Now, we get into a section here where we will provide numerous quotations here. You will hear them saying it for themselves. These gentlemen really, really do not understand Reformed Theology. They refuse to understand Reformed Theology.

They refuse to allow us to define Reformed Theology for them. They believe they know so much more about all these things than silly little old me could ever understand, obviously. But most importantly, here you have Hess, and this is one of the main problems of Mr. Hess.

He's come to his conclusions and he will not accept correction. And when it comes to the issue of what the nature of, for example, regeneration is, saving grace is, the taking out of a heart of stone, the giving a heart of flesh, you just heard him say it.

It is, by definition, coercion. By definition. And so when we would say, when I've used the example that I've used often, because there were only a few years in between these experiences in my life, when I was Department Fellow of Anatomy and Physiology at Grand Canyon University, Grand Canyon College back then, under Dr. James Witherspoon, I gave demonstrations of our cadavers.

We had chemically stored cadavers. They were not cold stored, they were chemically stored, with a substance that was later determined to be cancer-causing. Anyway, but thankfully I've survived that over all these years, so I'll probably be okay now.

We're all fine here now, thank you. Anyway, yeah, how are you? That's like the only movie you saw when you were a kid. It's probably the only one I ever showed in Prescott. But anyway, long way up that hill on horseback.

But what were we talking about? And so I was able to do anything I wanted to, to those cadavers. I could pull the top of the head off the one and take out the brain and demonstrate the brain. I could take the chest off the other and we could look at the heart and the lungs.