With Jesus Together and at Once

1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 as a Comforting Word About Those Who Have Died

Now scripture reading for our message this morning is the same as last week as we're doing part two in the same passage from 1st Thessalonians, which we 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 and verses 13 to 18.

So when you've turned there, please stand with me for the reading of God's Word 1st Thessalonians 4 13 through 18. But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.

For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

And so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words. God bless the reading. Now the proclamation of his word. Please be seated. So I ask you, as we begin, what is it that you take from those verses that I just read?

Many of you have read them before, you've been through your Bibles several times, you've read these words over and over. Many of you have read commentaries on them, heard many sermons on them. So I ask you, what do you take from these verses?

If you were here last week when I preached them, hopefully you took away some encouragement about those who have fallen asleep. Those of your friends, your loved ones, who have died in the Lord, which is what it means by falling asleep.

Hopefully you came away with some encouragement and some strengthening in your understanding of your ultimate destiny, which is to be with Jesus Christ, if indeed, by faith, you are in Christ. Not only you, but the destiny of your friends, your loved ones, everyone who has died in the Lord.

Words of knowledge. I do not want you to be uninformed, brethren. Words of encouragement. Therefore, encourage one another with these words. Encouragement. Jesus will come for we who are left, who are alive at his coming.

He's going to draw everyone out of his grave at their coming. He's going to come with those who are already with him when he comes. God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep, verse 14. And loud announcements are going to tell of his descent from heaven.

The cry of command, the voice of an archangel, the sound of the trumpet of God. What do we take from all that? Last week, as I said, to fill in your knowledge, so you're not uninformed, so that I'm not uninformed, and to bring encouragement.

Encouragement that we are all of God's people alive at the time, caught up with Jesus Christ in the clouds, and there to begin our eternal and close proximity to him, to be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Now that message that I gave last week, which I just gave you just a bare thumbnail sketch summary right now, that developed from my taking, as best I could, the text before us on its own terms, which I and Pastor Owens attempt to do as best we're able to do each Sunday that we stand at this pulpit and declare to you God's word.

I did find myself in my message smack in the middle of standard, traditional, reformed doctrine in that message last week, yet it was a message derived from the text that I trust the Spirit used for the purposes he intended by that text when he inspired the Apostle Paul to write those words.

So why are we having a part two on those same words? Why am I asking what did you take from this text when I told you what I thought you should take from the text last week? You see, there's a vast segment of modern Christianity that takes a very different view of 1 Thessalonians 4 verses 13 -18 than what you heard last week.

The more traditional, conservative, reformed, if you will, take on those verses. I don't normally preach this way, neither Pastor Owens and I normally do. That is, we don't normally preach against other views, but this morning I do want to preach somewhat against a view that is very widespread.

It's so widespread that I wanted to take opportunity to show you this morning, as best I can, why it's not the view that we hold here at this church. And before I pose the question that I want to answer, I want to affirm that I have many friends that I consider true brothers and sisters in the Lord who hold firmly to what I hope to show this morning is erroneous.

That is, it's not a heresy. If you believe what I'm about to preach against, though not polemically, not violently, but I'm going to preach a better way, I think, I only ask for a fair hearing this morning.

Believing what I'm going to preach is not a touchstone test of your faith, nor is this a qualifying or disqualifying factor in your full, vital membership here at Silicon Valley Reformed Baptist Church.

The Premillennial, Pre-Tribulation, Dispensational View

So with that introduction, the question I want to ask is this. Does 1 Thessalonians 4, verses 13 -18 teach, first, that there will be a secret rapture of the church prior to a literal seven years of tribulation, which is second, followed by a general resurrection when Jesus returns.

Is there a two-stage bringing of people to himself? Those who are with him now who have died in the Lord, those who will be brought up later. To put it another way, does this text teach or prove that Jesus comes in two stages, one for the church before this tribulation, then after that to rule for a literal millennium of 1 ,000 years?

This is going to sound a bit like material for a Sunday school lesson, maybe even a lecture, but it's an important question. It's an important question because it's a vast portion of contemporary Christianity that believes that this is just what 1 Thessalonians 4, verses 13 -18 teaches.

This dual-stage bringing of the church to Jesus. This coming of Jesus with those and coming back at another time after the seven-year tribulation and redeeming the rest. This two-stage idea and this literal seven-year time of tribulation.

The teaching position of this church is very different from that, and you who call Silicon Valley Reformed Baptist Church your spiritual home should understand why we differ. Another reason this is important is because of the way those conclusions, those other conclusions, are derived.

Now while I include many in that camp as my true brothers in the Lord, and many of you do the same, their biblical interpretation leaves, in my estimation, a lot to be desired. So what are we going to do this morning?

Well, Lord willing, you're going to hear the gospel as we go through this. It's not just a lecture, but first I want to set forth the other position, which I'll define in a moment. And this will be no straw man, which I'm going to set up myself, and then I'm going to knock the stuffing out of it.

I'll use some of their most respected, most capable advocates in their own words, men who I admire and respect greatly myself. That's first. I'm going to set the position. Second, I'm going to show where I think their reasoning falters.

And third, Lord willing, we can find what the Puritans called the uses of this. The uses, the application, what does all this mean to me? So the position I'm referring to here is the premillennial, pre-tribulation, dispensational position.

Premillennial, pre-tribulation, dispensational. I'm going to break that down a little bit for you. Premillennial means Jesus returns before, pre. He comes before the start of his literal 1 ,000-year reign, the millennium, the 1 ,000-year reign on the earth.

So that's premillennial. Jesus comes before the beginning of that literal 1 ,000-year reign. Pre-tribulation, I'll shorten to pre-trib. Just call it pre-trib throughout. And this is going to take a moment, but pre is again before.

And this time the pre means before the literal seven-year tribulation, the one attributed to Daniel 7, verse 25, the one confirmed in Revelation 12, verse 14. Pre-trib, that pre-tribulation is a literal seven-year period.

And it works this way, in Daniel 7, verse 25, and in Revelation 12, verse 14, you don't have to turn there because we're not going to spend much time there, but it speaks of this tribulation being time, times, and half a time.

So a time is one, times is two, and half a time is a half. So one plus two is three, and a half is three and a half. So you have a three-and-a-half-year period of tribulation, which is a false peace, followed by three-and-a-half years of tribulation, which is real tribulation.

So seven years. This is what the pre-tribulation, pre-millennial position is. So what is dispensationalism? It's a biblical hermeneutic whereby God's dealing with mankind is broken up into seven dispensations, and they're innocence, conscience, government, promise, law, grace, which is where we are now, and finally the millennial kingdom.

So in a single sentence, dispensationalism believes that there will be a seven-year tribulation on earth that begins when the church is quietly raptured, the secret rapture, if you will, at the end of which Jesus returns and rules for a thousand years.

Now, I've spent a good deal of time on this, and we're going to get past it very quickly now, but I want to pose a question to you. It's a rhetorical question, and I don't want you to call out, but the question is, where do they get this?

Where does this pre-millennial, pre-tribulation, dispensational position come from? Well, you may be a little surprised, especially if you were here last week, and some of you were encouraged by the message last week, which is what the Holy Spirit intended by these words, therefore speak these words, therefore encourage one another with these words, but one of the core, one of the primary passages, if not the core, the primary passage where that particular doctrine that I just described comes from is these very verses, 1 Thessalonians 4, 13 -18.

John Wolvert, who was once president of Dallas Theological Seminary, the bastion of dispensational theology, he was sometimes called the dean of pre-trib dispensationalism, he wrote, the events related to the rapture are stated here with great clarity and described in detail given nowhere else in the scripture.

He depends upon this to prove his position. A man named Harry Wilmington says it's one of the two most important passages in the whole Bible confirming the rapture. Leon Wood says, quote, one of the fullest treatments of the rapture is found right here, and therefore this passage calls for special attention.

R .G. Klaus admits the main passage on which this teaching, premillennial, pre-trib dispensationalism, which this teaching is based, it's 1 Thessalonians 4, 13 -18, more familiar to many of you, a man I admire and respect greatly for much good he's done in the church, is John MacArthur.

He takes great pains in his New Testament commentary on this very passage to prove from these verses that, quote, the rapture must be pre-tribulational before the wrath of God described in Revelation 6 -19.

So this is it. Premillennial, pre-trib dispensationalism rests here in 1 Thessalonians 4, 13 -18. So what's the problem? Why do we hold a different position? Why did I preach differently from all that?

And a vast majority of your friends are going to believe that dispensational position. I believe that at the church where I was saved, where we were taught this premillennial, pre-tribulation, dispensational way of looking at the Bible.

I believe I was fully saved. As I said, it's not heresy, nobody's going to be kicked out of the church or prevented from coming into the church. But if this is your home, you need to understand why we hold the different position, the more traditional, reformed position.

Context, Purpose, and the Problem of Arguments from Silence

What's the problem with the other? Well, first of all, it's context. Now context is the queen mother of all biblical interpretation. Context. Paul tells us very clearly here, remembering that Paul is led along by the Holy Spirit to write the words that we have here.

2 Timothy 3, 15 -16 tells us that this word is inspired directly by the Holy Spirit of God. Verse 13, you heard a moment ago. Now we do not want you to be uninformed about those who have fallen asleep.

Now verses 13 -18 are one unit of thought as virtually all commentators agree. Then here is its purpose-driven introduction to inform us about those who have died in the Lord. They've fallen into this temporary condition we call sleep.

We talked about that quite a bit last week. This temporary condition called being asleep, this euphemism. They're dead. They really are dead, but in Christ death ain't what it used to be. Verse 18 then finishes our context.

It frames those words that we have, this paragraph. Therefore encourage one another with these words. Words of encouragement, words of knowledge. In other words, these words of knowledge are meant as words of comfort to be spoken to those whose loved ones have died in the Lord.

That is the context. That is what Paul is trying to get across. That is what the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to bring to the church then and now. And last week's message was framed by those two verses as the purpose.

My goal is to inform you and to provide encouragement and comfort. If that was achieved, God gets all the glory for using a man like me with feet of clay. In any case, I preached it as I did because of the context.

Dispelling ignorance and bringing comfort is the stated purpose of these verses. So I ask, how is the secret rapture, the seven-year tribulation, and a separate coming found? Well, the first and the quick answer is it's not.

It's really not there. Paul's stated purpose is different than anything to do with a tribulation of seven years. MacArthur's comment from his New Testament commentary is very typical. I quote, There is no mention of judgment at all in these rapture passages, which he says therefore proves that the church has been raptured before it begins.

In other words, we have this rapture and no mention of judgment. Therefore, pre-tribulation, pre-judgment, pre-suffering rapture, and the church taken away before all that. Now bear with me if this is sounding like a lecture.

It is meant as a sermon and the gospel is in here. My friend Brian Borgman, who's pastor of Grace Community Church in Minden, Nevada, he points out there are many logical fallacies in what is going on here.

He points out, and I use this with permission. I spoke to him about this. He does a great analysis of these things. It's a begging of the question. It's the fallacy of begging the question. And that means that the premise is assumed without proving the premise upon which you then proceed to make your conclusions.

Just assuming something that has not been proved. He assumes that 1 Thessalonians 4, 13 through 18 is about the pre-trib rapture. And so proves from that unproved premise that the church is gone before it happens because tribulation isn't mentioned.

So that's also the argument of silence. It's not mentioned. Therefore, the church must be gone before this thing, which I'm assuming is going to happen, has happened. Now the reason the tribulation isn't mentioned by Paul, though, isn't because the church won't go through it.

He doesn't mention it because that is not his purpose. See, Jesus didn't forget, nor will he forget, nor will he ever forget one for whom he bled and died. This is the purpose. This brings you encouragement.

This tells you that the gospel upon which you've staked your eternal soul is a true and reliable gospel, that God is faithful, his steadfast love endures forever, and not one whom he gave to his son will ever be forgotten.

To the Thessalonians, those who died and were asleep would be raised up. It was a temporary condition. You who are alive, it is coming. You will not be forgotten. You will be raised up with him as well.

Different words are used for it, and we're not going to go into that detail, but that's the encouraging point of these verses, or at least one of the encouraging points, that God has not forgotten, that Christ will not leave any behind.

Tribulation in This World and Christ's Victory Over Death

So I want to say a couple things about this tribulation. First, Jesus said the church will have tribulation throughout its existence on earth. So I sort of pull myself away from this idea of being taken up so we don't go through tribulation when Jesus Christ said in chapter 16, verse 33 of John, that in this world you will have tribulation.

Why will we have tribulation? Because of him. Because of our faith in him and the world's hatred of him. You will have tribulation. Tribulation from standing at the water cooler, and I know things have changed.

We have a new normal. You don't stand at the water cooler in the office anymore, so take it parabolically, if you will. And someone teases you and says, well, Christianity is silly. You know what that is?

That's tribulation in Christ's eyes. As much as being burned at the stake was for those martyrs who died that way. The church will go through tribulation. So I stand apart from this idea of being taken up before.

Jesus Christ also said in John 16, verse 33, but take heart, I have overcome the world. That Jesus, by his cross, has overcome all that the world stands for. He made a mockery of them, if you will. And Jesus doesn't glorify himself by removing us from the trials.

How does God get glory through us and our faith in Christ and the power of the Spirit within us? By going through the tribulation, whatever it is, whether it's someone who teases you and just takes a little jab at your faith, or even worse, and staying true to Christ.

Holding on to your faith. This is how God is glorified. Not by taking us away from the tribulation. Wouldn't that be easy if he just lifted us up and removed us every time trouble came upon us? No, that's not what God does at all.

It's by going through the tribulation in the power of the Spirit and holding true to our faith that God gets the glory. The church is meant by God to be here as a banner of the gospel during the hard times, during the loss of loved ones, during economic uncertainty, during persecutions.

And as we go through all those things and look to his word and follow the guidance of his Spirit and the power that his Spirit gives us, that power of the resurrection that has worked toward us who believe, Ephesians 119, God is glorified.

And so one of the things that I really reject in this dispensational reading into these verses of being taken away from tribulation, even if we have to call it the tribulation, is that Jesus says otherwise.

You're going to go through tribulation. In this world, you will have tribulation. Jesus on the cross, Jesus by his death has destroyed the works of the devil, especially the devil's use of our fear of death that he effectively has used and uses to keep us and keep people terrified.

That's in Hebrews chapter 12. Jesus has conquered sin and death so completely that Paul can taunt it. In 1 Corinthians 15, he says, oh, death, where's your victory? Oh, death, where's your sting? Where's death's sting?

What became of the victory? It was swallowed up by our Lord's resurrection. And for us, as we endure the trials and tribulations of this world, where do we go through them? How do we go through them? By the power of the resurrection, by our hope in the resurrection to come, by knowing that Jesus Christ will not leave us here, will not forget us here.

And as we go through the trials and the tribulations and bring glory to him by staying true to him in the midst of it all, he gets much glory, and we grow in the Lord and we become closer to him. It's swallowed up in the resurrection.

That's how you emerge from the trials, by faith, by perseverance, by the power of that resurrection work towards you who believe. So that's first. The first thing that I reject in the dispensational, pre-tribulational, pre-millennial view of these verses is you are going to go through tribulation.

And second, an appeal is often made to 1 Thessalonians 5, verse 9, which Lord willing will be our next sermon, beginning in the first three verses of that chapter. But in verse 9 of chapter 5 there it says, for God has not destined us to wrath.

Therefore, the church will be taken up before that wrath, that seven years of wrath, begins. Because we're not destined to wrath. So that proves the pre-tribulational rapture. But what is meant in chapter 5, verse 9?

I'm stealing my thunder here for a few weeks hence when I'm going to preach this again. So you're going to hear it a second time, Lord willing. But chapter 5, verse 9, God has not destined us to wrath is not speaking of some final wrath poured out for seven years on the earth.

God has not destined you to wrath. What wrath does he mean? Not seven years of tribulation on this earth. The wrath he means in 1 Thessalonians 5, verse 9 that we're not destined to is God's wrath at your sin.

Ephesians 1, verse 4 says He chose us in Him. He chose the believer to be in Christ when Christ redeemed you on the cross before the foundation of the world. That's what it means in 1 Thessalonians 5, verse 9 that you're not destined to wrath.

Not seven years of wrath. Eternal wrath. Eternal dying. Eternal consumption by a worm that will never die and flesh that will never be consumed. Eternal wrath of God. His justified wrath at your sin. You are not destined for that if you're in Christ Jesus.

Who was destined for that wrath? Jesus. 2 Corinthians 5, verse 21. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that in Him we might become the righteousness of God. No, 1 Thessalonians 5, verse 9 which is appealed to as proving that the church is taken up before wrath has nothing to do with seven year tribulation.

It has to do with eternal wrath. God's wrath at your sin for which you are not destined because Jesus Christ was destined for it when He became sin and God poured His wrath out on Him for what you and for what I had done.

Not seven years and done. No. Eternal and infinite and fully justified fury at our willing sin. So far from proving that the church is taken away before some wrath begins it has nothing to do with that.

The Meaning of the Rapture as Christ Drawing His People to Himself

So it's the rapture that is sort of in question here. The rapture that's being taken up. Rapture comes from a Latin word and it's a Latin word for the Greek in 1 Thessalonians 4, verse 17. Then we who are alive, who are left will be caught up will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

So caught up is from a Greek word arpazo and again that results in the Latin word rapture and arpazo means to be seized to be carried off by force an irresistible force sometimes used as a violent seizure of something or someone.

From rapture what do we get? We get enraptured. You know if a young man is enraptured by a young woman as for example Isaac was with Rebekah he will do anything to be with her. He is irresistibly drawn to her.

He is raptured, enraptured by her. The word rapture coming from arpazo is not a drawing of ourselves to the Lord. It is He the Lord drawing you to Him. He is if you will if you like to hear it this way He is enraptured to have you with Him.

The power of God affected towards us and we are resurrected if we are in the ground or translated if we are alive when He returns and all the twinkling of the eye made to be like Jesus and with Him forever.

That is what arpazo or rapture is. What he is speaking of here is the resurrection to come. These encouraging words that should get us through the hard times and the emotional heartbreak of losing loved ones or seeing others sick.

The pre-mill, pre-trib construct which seems to be obsessed with timing. When are these going to happen? Are there two stages of this? In my mind it undermines the beauty and the finality of our coming resurrection.

This great hope we have that we will be raised with Christ. If you are in Christ then you have every cause to think of Jesus as so enraptured to have you with Him you for whom He bled and died that He will call you to Himself with this cry of command that must be obeyed.

This is going to be irresistible. He is going to seize you as it were. And in a real sense if anyone is enraptured it is Jesus enraptured to have us with Him. Not that there is any good in me or you or anyone else.

What is the good? What would make Jesus so enraptured so wanting to have you that He would seize you? He would arpozzo you? He would draw you up irresistibly? That answer is simple. To accomplish His Father's will.

To bring those whom the Father gave to Him to Himself and present you the church as a spotless unblemished bride before His Father. I believe that is what is happening here. I have very little concern about the timing of these things and what events in history are going to lead me to think that this is very close.

I could care less about any of that. And I think Paul could. The point is that these things are sure. These things are certain. These are encouraging words. Not to make us watch headlines. Not to make us worry about world events.

No, to give you encouragement. To make sure, to make secure your hope in that resurrection which will follow in a resurrection like Jesus'. He being the first fruits and we the second. Now, there's nothing in you or me that would make us worth being enraptured about, no, it's Jesus enraptured with doing the Father's will which includes your salvation and your resurrection.

What Other Rapture Texts Do and Do Not Prove

Now, as commentary on these verses, MacArthur writes that, quote, the time of the rapture cannot be discerned from this text alone. Now, I've already said why it can't be discerned from it. It's because it's not there.

They're arguing from silence all the while begging and begging and begging the question or the conclusion. He goes on following Wolvard's reasoning that the other rapture passages, that's his term, the other rapture passages don't mention tribulation and therefore the church must be raptured before the tribulation begins.

Now, again, I've said at length what I think of a church or an individual in the church avoiding tribulation. But keep in mind as I read some of these passages that he used to confirm what I just read from him, this idea of begging questions and arguments from silence.

1 John 14, verse 3. Jesus says, and if I go prepare a place for you, I will come again and take you to myself. He calls that a, quote, unquote, rapture passage. Revelation 3 .10. Because you have kept my word about patience, endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world to try those who dwell on the earth.

1 Corinthians 15, 51 to 52. Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable and so we will all be changed.

One more. First, or excuse me, Philippians 3, 2 through 21. And I'm just gonna read two typical verses from there. Verse 10, Paul says that I may know Christ and the power of his resurrection. And verse 14, I press on towards the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

And the only one there that gave me pause in what I'm about to say was Revelation 3 .10, but that one is answerable from a more detailed look at that book of Revelation, more detailed than we have time for.

But I would say that these are not undoubtedly rapture passages. I would say, second of all, they can only be bent to prove the church's rapture before the seven years of wrath if that's really what they're about.

Now MacArthur writes that these taken together prove that 1 Thessalonians 4, 13 to 18 is about the rapture and all the other things I've mentioned. But importantly, these with 1 Thessalonians 4 prove a rapture followed by Jesus' second coming and a general resurrection.

So it's a two-stage idea. Keep in mind as I go through this, as I said before, I greatly respect, almost admire John MacArthur. And I thank God for the good that he's done in the church. He's raised the alarm on so many things.

He's written so well about some of the heresies that crept in to the church and made people like me aware of them just by reading his works. So I have a great respect for Mr. MacArthur. Don't get me wrong that I'm trying to, what do we say today, throw him under the bus?

Not my purpose at all. I want you to understand what we think this Scripture means and why we differ from this other take. But he writes that taken together with these other passages, this passage in 1 Thessalonians 4, 13, 18 prove this idea of the rapture in two stages.

There's a silence from the Scriptures. I think those passages do not mention judgment. I don't think they mention it because that's not what's in them. And they don't mention rapture because that's not what it's about.

There's one thing that Jesus said, just one I'll mention, that I think should give the premillennial, pre-trib, dispensational view a bit of pause. Jesus says in John 25, 29, think here as I read these verses about this two-stage idea.

Truly, truly I say to you, an hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.

And he has given him authority to execute judgment because he is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this. For an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

I hear one voice, the cry of command, the voice of an archangel, the sound of the trumpet of God announcing his arrival and his Son with that great voice speaking and we are all there before him answering for ourselves or pointing to Jesus who answered for us.

All in this one great irresistible rapture before Christ. And what happens then? Well, Jesus speaks of sheep and goats and he'll bring the sheep, those who believe in him, those who have trusted in him, those who have repented of their sin and gone to him in faith and repentance before God and faith in Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross and that's a sheep.

He said, come to my right hand and others will be goats. You who relied upon yourself, you who thought you could make yourself right before God. This is going to happen all at once. There's not going to be a seven year time when you can watch things get worse and worse and worse because they're always worse and this generation always looks back and says, well, this must be the tribulation because it's worse than what they had and it's going to go on and on and on like that until Jesus comes back.

You who have trusted in yourself, you who thought you had time to wait to make what you would call a decision, no. Your faith in Christ must be now because when this resurrection happens, when this trumpet blast sounds, when this cry of the archangel goes forth, when Jesus gives that loud command, there's no more opportunity and those who have trusted in themselves are the goats who will be put on his left.

The resurrection to condemnation. I see in what Jesus says in John 5, 25 to 29, one call, one coming, second coming. So where's the lag between the rapture, so called, and the final judgment? Jesus speaks and the dead arise.

They stand before him. They're judged for their sin and they're given either the crown of life for their faith or they're sent the other direction. Now MacArthur does not advocate the secret rapture. He understands this can be a rather well-heard, allowed rapture, but he errs in my and others' opinions in separating the rapture of the church with the resurrection, including unbelievers, and then leaving Israel as an entity with a unique and a separate destiny.

I can go into any detail on Israel and all of that this morning. So very quickly, what are the problems with the pre-trib rapture idea? Tribulation has nothing to do with 1 Thessalonians 4, 13 to 18.

Those verses are about encouragement, about comfort for those who are grieving. Rapture is in there, being caught up that irresistible command of God by which we will be translated and brought before Christ.

That is in there, but that word is in there. It's simply how Jesus brings the redeemed to himself. Second, it fails to prepare the saints for the tribulations that Jesus promises and the apostles and countless others down through the centuries and we today in this place have actually experienced.

You've gone through tribulations, and our spiritual forefathers have gone through persecutions and before them and before them, all the way down to the apostles themselves, all the way down to Jesus himself.

Tribulation is part of the Christian life. 1 Thessalonians 1, verse 6, speaking of the Thessalonians, says that they received the gospel in much affliction. They received it, they were converted in the midst of affliction.

And much of the rest of that letter and the second letter to them speaks of how that persecution, how those tribulations continued. My fear of anticipating this seven year, this identifiable seven year period of tribulation is that it gives you the idea that we're going to be taken away from it.

When I think the scripture tells us very clearly we're going to be here in it. That's how God gets the glory. When silly feet of clay, inconsistent, sometimes frivolous people like myself stay true to Christ in the midst of the tribulations that are part of our life here on earth so long as Jesus tarries or delays.