The Here I Stand Theology Podcast (The Laborers Podcast on Church Membership)

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The Here I Stand Theology Podcast (The Laborers Podcast on Church Membership)

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This what y 'all need to be listenin' for Yo, let me explain what I mean It's not too complex It's preaching
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God's Word in its proper context As you listen, be discerning What you have to determine What's the point of the passage, the point of the sermon?
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If not, this problem must be confronted today Cause he just used the Bible to say what he wanted to say
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And even if it's delivered with fire and intelligence That's basically making what God has inspired irrelevant
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Instead of applying the Word's realities A lot of passages rely on personality But gifts of communication
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Can never be a true replacement For the Holy Spirit's illumination Without exposition, you'll lack major profit
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All you'll get is tradition and your pastor's favorite topics And that can be a slippery slope The Word should be giving you hope
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It's due to just giving you jokes That won't help you love cry It won't help your obedience We need more expositors, not more comedians
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But shepherds who labor in the text Then faithfully connect you to the Savior Then wait for its effects
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God gives the increase Holiness, love, unity The Word faithfully preached builds up the whole community
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If not, your Sunday meal will not last And you'll have to supplement it with the podcast Don't entertain us, that won't sustain us
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Preach the Word, preach the Word, preach the Word This verse right here, it's for the pastors
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I just want to encourage y 'all, man Y 'all should be mindful of this devout thesis
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All of the Bible is about Jesus The Old Testament, Jesus Christ concealed The New Testament, Jesus Christ revealed
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This truth of the Lord Christ boldly conveyed this In Luke 24, on the road to Emmaus The law of the prophets and the teachings of apostles
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All of these point back to Jesus in the Gospel So if the work of Christ is what the Word is about Ultimately, that should be what the sermon's about Forget applause, you gotcha
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Let the cross rock ya All roads in the Bible lead to Golgotha Whatever the text, faithfulness demands
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That we should hear the echoes of nails hit in His hands Don't try to be original, say the old story
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And watch your people change as they behold glory The glory of Jesus, we need to see that Preach the
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Word All right, all right, welcome to the
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Labor's Podcast 1 Timothy 3, verse 14 through 16
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This is the Word of the Living God Paul said, I hope to come to you soon
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But I am writing these things to you So that if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave
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In the household of God Which is the church of the Living God A pillar and buttress of the truth
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Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness He was manifested in the flesh
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Vindicated by the Spirit Seen by angels Proclaimed among the nations
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And believed on in the world Taken up into glory
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So guys, how are y 'all doing tonight? Doing good Doing all right Good, so tonight we are going to be talking about the church, right?
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And more particularly, church membership What is church membership?
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Can we make a biblical case? These are some of the things that we're gonna talk about We're gonna talk about a false view of church membership
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A consumeristic view of church membership Different kinds of church membership
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What makes church membership different from anything else on the earth Is having or requiring a local church role or membership, even biblical
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And what are our roles and responsibilities when it comes to church membership? Not to mention a couple of other questions
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That sounds like a whole lot that we're gonna be tackling today But I believe it will be well worth it
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It will be beneficial for us It will be beneficial for those who are watching This podcast
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But right before we get into this Since I get to host this tonight, the
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Here I Stand Theology podcast I'm making a big announcement tonight So tonight, officially, the
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Here I Stand Theology podcast Has become a member of the Truth and Love Network So Rob, tell us about the
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Truth and Love Network What it's all about, where we're heading Truth and Love Network is just whatever
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God wants it to be My desire is for my community And I have been hoping, praying, and seeking
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And loving the fellowship that God has brought together so far And we're praying and hoping and seeking that God would bring more men together
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That are like -minded in theology But also with a desire to reach their community
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And so together, I'm hoping that God will use us To help each other reach our respective communities
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And then we want to support each other In what we are doing individually
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With our own individual podcast Or preaching, church planning, whatever you guys are doing
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We want to support one another as we do that And then once a week, come together
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And just fellowship as brothers And reach our community together as one podcast
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And yeah, we're off to a great start We've been doing it for a while But we're trying to make it more official
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And the Lord is blessing in that Awesome, awesome
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So tonight, let's do something Let's kind of add a niche to our conversation tonight
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So tonight, as we approach these questions As we approach these issues
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As we approach church membership What it is, what it's about Is it biblical, so on and so forth
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Let's do this Let's make this like we are sitting at a table with each other
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We'll pretend like these five squares on the screen in front of us Are just chairs which we're sitting at And we're staring at each other
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And so as we are talking tonight Tyler, if you want to interject
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You just say, hold on a minute Dan will say, hang on a minute there, youngster
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Jesse will say, alright, I got something to say So let's make this fully conversational
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Let's bring this down to Let's make this rubber meets the road talk tonight
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So, which one of y 'all would like to start in On can we make a biblical case for church membership
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Hint, hint I read some scripture that points to it I'll go
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Yeah, go ahead So, let me start off with Ephesians chapter 4
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Ephesians is one of my favorite books of the Bible But Ephesians 4 is unique He's writing to the church,
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Paul is But he's writing a very encouraging letter He's been hammering a lot of churches pretty hard with some stuff for a while But Ephesians is encouragement
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It's very encouraging instruction And he starts off in chapter 4
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With, therefore I the prisoner of the Lord Urge you to live worthy of the calling you have received That's salvation, that we've been called into the family of God And we are to live worthy of that calling
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With humility and gentleness With patience Bearing with one another In love
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Making every effort to keep the unity of the spirit Through the bond of peace There is one body
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One Lord One Spirit Just as you were called to one hope Add your calling One Lord One Faith One Baptism One God and Father of all
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Who is above all And through all And in all That there is this unity that we have in Christ That we are brought together into one body
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We're one person And this thing we call the church Is a gathering of like -minded
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Christians We are all brought into this assembly And we abide in Christ together
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We bear with one another in love We are united in not just our calling
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Not just the fact that we're saved But we're united in mission We're united in worship We're united in who
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God is That we're all underneath the banner Of who Christ is And what
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He's done That's good guys How can we compliment that?
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From what I see The doctrine of church membership Is very similar to the doctrine of the
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Trinity You don't have You don't have a specific verse
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You have to use your systematic theology Like we talked about last time And draw your different verses together
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To help understand that God is triune And so I think the same thing is true When it comes to church membership
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There's no one particular verse that says When you gather at one place
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Because it's geographically friendly With your neighbors And you're all people whom
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God has saved Create a role You don't have that particular verse But what you see is that concept
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And that idea taught throughout Scripture The idea of God marking people
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Is all throughout Scripture There's a mark that He talks about On the hand and the forehead
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For the antichrist And then there's a mark of the lamb For people
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And that's not talked about as much As the mark of the beast The mark of the lamb is not talked about as much
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Here as individuals We're supposed to mark out Those among you who are false teachers
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We're to mark out the widows and the orphans And then you have in Scripture We hear talk about the lamb's book of life
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Where God does have a role And He knows whom are
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His And then we learn from Christ That He teaches us to pray
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Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done On earth as it is in heaven And so if God is marking
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And knows whom are His Then I think we can do that here on earth
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By knowing whom God has drawn to Himself And then that leads us practically
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To the application of it The church discipline The helping of the widows and the orphans
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And all that stuff Right, so we'll get into that in more detail too So what you're explaining there
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Would you say that it's really pointing Pointing toward the church universal there?
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Because of the references you pointed out We're really talking about the body of Christ as a whole
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The church, the church universal Right, yeah, and that's how it starts off But that as our example
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When we move to our geographically friendly locations It works out practically to help us in those
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Other areas that we were talking about Church discipline I mean you can't kick somebody out
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If you don't have anybody in So Jesse, let's go to you
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The biblical case for church membership Absolutely I would like to think of Back to a letter of Paul In Philippians 1, verses 3 and 5
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Paul says something that's very unique Somewhat overlooked And he uses a phrase that I actually
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Come to like more and more And this one he says And I quote I thank my
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God every time I remember you In all my prayers for all of you
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I always pray with joy Because of your partnership in the gospel
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From the first day until now I want to focus in that little phrase
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Because of your partnership in the gospel From the first day until now
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So the last part of that section And he is very thankful of this partnership
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Now this partnership of what Paul has in mind Is not a business partnership
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Is not a 50 -50 investment type partnership
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Like an entrepreneurship He has more in mind like a fellowship More in mind like the word koinia
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Which has the connotation of fellowship And koinia here is actually reference
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Is translated as partnership in this You know verse here
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And a lot of people do relate it to business But I like to take it a little bit more higher than that And because we get to enjoy each other
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You know fellowship When we get together every Sunday You know what
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I mean And that body, that assembly Which is the word kosia is assembly
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When we get together we become this assembly This special body
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And you know what I mean And there's many bodies in the world
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That actually try to be like the church I call them wannabes And most people think about the
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United Nations As a great example of a body Of an assembly of people called out together
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That are together for one purpose But yet they can't get along They're not really a great example
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Of what the church really is So that koinia when we get together
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We actually have that fellowship We get to enjoy our fellowship This is the context where you know
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Where you know the context of You know where we share each other's gifts Where we build each other up And that immediately takes me to The world
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Because the world is very lonely Very dark, very isolated
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Individualistic people out there Culture and all that People don't have relationships They really don't
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It's very shallow if they do And all you have to do is take a quick look At statistics and you will see
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That these relationships That exist in the world Are shallow, very weak
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You know what I mean And is nothing in comparison With a brother in Christ Sometimes your relationship
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With your brothers and sisters in Christ Is actually way more deeper And meaningful Than your relationship with Your own family in some context
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You know what I mean And you know it takes me to another verse In Ecclesiastes This koinia and action type thing
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And in Ecclesiastes chapter 4 Section verses 9 and 10
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He says two are better than one Two are better than one If one of them falls down One can help each other up But pity anyone who falls
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And has no one to help them up That's the world out there
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You know what I mean They're all against one another The homies, the friendships are shallow
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They're weak They don't really help each other You know what I mean It's like tick for tack You scratch my back
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I'll scratch your back In the Christ community What we're talking about Is a community here
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That doesn't really exist At least it's not supposed to be like that You know we walked with the brother
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We walked with the widow We walked with the orphan Like extra miles You know what I mean Somebody told me
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If you want to be an elder in the church Just go ahead and lay down Like a speed bump right there Because you're going to get around over a ton
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You know what I mean And you got to do it to the glory of Christ It's a lot of service
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For the elders And it's not to be served Right And the world out there
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Is very looking to be served And what's in it for me And that's not the community
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That Paul has in mind here That he's thankful of You're not really thankful For people who take advantage of you
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You know what I mean You're not really thankful For cheaters and liars and back biters And stuff like that You're thankful for your pastor preaching
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You're thankful for your That encouraging word you got on Sunday That fellowship meal
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That koinia that we're supposed to get Every Sunday And you can't get that If you're not in church
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Yeah and it takes us back to Jesus' words The Son of Man came not to be served
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But to serve and to give his life a ransom For many Right You just hit on a bunch of the questions there
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So let's move over to Dan Dan The biblical case for church membership You know
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I don't know Is that the Bible makes a case For church membership And here's why I say that It's because the Bible doesn't really argue for it
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Because it just assumes it It kind of just assumes church membership As you go through it Everything that you come up against Where it deals with a church setting
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There's authority structures Which you have to define Who's in, who's out If you're going to discipline someone
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Who can be disciplined, who's not Even the Apostle Paul talking about You should judge those who are inside of the church
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And not those who are out Because God will judge those who are outside of the church Paul again in Hebrews Because that's who wrote
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Hebrews Fight me about it I agree man
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We can arm wrestle But we're arm wrestling for the same thing He says in I think it's chapter 10
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Not to forsake the assembling over yourselves together How do you know who to go meet with If you don't have a group of folks there
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They chose from the godly men Those who would be deacons I mean it just goes on and on Paul was looking for people
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Who were going to be worshiping on the Lord's day So he went down there to the place
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Where the church would gather It's not argued for in the
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New Testament Because it's assumed It was just If God's going to call people to himself
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Then those people who are gathered around the gospel Are going to be his people And those people are just to act a certain way
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They're held to a certain standard Or they are brought under discipline Yeah I agree
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I agree And Jesse Jesse I thought you was reading my mind When you went to Philippians there
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Because I mean If you go right to the very first verse of Philippians there
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Right So what does Paul say Let me get there Sorry I'm not bringing this all up on the computer tonight
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I'm doing it manually So Paul and Timothy Servants of Christ Jesus To all the saints in Christ Jesus Who are at Philippi With the overseers and the deacons
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There we have the structure Of the local church In two verses right there
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The saints The deacons And the elders Or the overseers
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We have it all right there The Belgic Confession Talks about the church
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Marks of the church Article 28 of the Belgic Confession states We believe
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Since this holy congregation Is an assembly of those who are saved And out of it there is no salvation
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That no person of whatsoever state or condition He may be Ought to withdraw himself to live in a separate state from it
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But that all men are in duty bound To join and unite themselves with it Maintaining the unity of the church
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Submitting themselves to the doctrine And discipline thereof Bowing their necks
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Under the yoke of Jesus Christ And as mutual members of the same body Serving to the edification of the brethren
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According to the talents that God has given them That's succinct right there
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That's a stick of dynamite That will blow a mailbox up right there We're all done
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Thank you for joining us What were you reading the
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Belgic Confession out of? My Bible The Reformation Study Bible It's got all the creeds and confessions
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In the back of it Yeah, it's handy It's handy to have all of them there together
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So Rob Let's go back to you here now Let's talk about different types of church memberships
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You started us on this path here Let's go ahead and continue What are by different types
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Different kinds of church memberships So we have universal The universal church The church body as a whole
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Referred to as Catholic And we have the local church Talk to us a little bit about that Yeah I mean this is a discussion that I would like to have with you guys sometime
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Just to pick your brain Because we Some people talk about us carrying over that word church
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From a different place Us Protestants May not use that word
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But we But it's the most familiar word to us So we continue to use it But I think we're more
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Familiar with this Assembly or Could use the word assembly but I think what
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I was talking about there is The different The different areas of our
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Our membership I mean when we're born again When God saves us initially He Brings us into his
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Assembly His kingdom His church That's the universal or capital
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C Catholic or lowercase C Catholic church And And so That's where we start
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And then the verse that Dan quoted to us You know It's going to be like our
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Well, I guess it would have to be our For if we're if we grew up outside the church
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In many cases And things may be changing Because You know in the
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Last Several decades Most people were Or would maybe claim to be churchgoers
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People took their families to church and And many people were saved in church But things may be moving in a different direction
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So We used to talk about the first act of obedience Is baptism But now if you're outside the church
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Or got saved outside the church Didn't grow up in the church Maybe your first act of obedience
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Is going to that Hebrews verse that Dan was talking about And find that local assembly
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Where you can become Baptized as a believer For the first time
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And And then you join that That local assembly
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And that's where you can You yourself can be accountable To brothers and sisters
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You can keep others accountable You can be fed You can feed others
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And you can You know just like the characteristics We represent
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God And we We reflect him in that Where you know
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God shares his Characteristics among the Godhead The Father, the
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Son, and the Holy Spirit Where they're able to show love towards one another They're able to communicate with one another
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And so the same thing is true When we reflect him amongst One another in that local assembly
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We're able to you know love one another Serve one another Discipline one another
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And so on and so forth So That's kind of what I mean in Helping us understand and making those distinctions
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Between the universal church Versus the local assembly Yeah and so I can see a
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Credo versus pedo Debate brewing between you and Dan right now I don't know Tyler's up there
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Or were you sprinkling? I was sprinkling yeah I thought you were sprinkling
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Alright so Matt by the way we didn't get to We brought it up there Matt Breeding's on with us he said hi
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There's another Facebook user on but that's all that comes up Facebook user we don't know who you are
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Tell us who you are in the comments And we'll give you a shout out Alright so Universal Invisible church
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Local visible I know those sometimes are taken Kind of you know
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They ought to be taken at face value What they're talking about So Jesse or let's go to Let's actually go to Tyler Jesse you had mentioned this
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But let's see what Tyler has to say about this What makes church membership Different from anything on earth
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Abraham Kuyper A philosopher from about a Hundred years ago So you know where I'm going
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He once wrote in a fantastic Book that is very hard to read That the church is both
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An institution and an Organism That it's an institution and an organism
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That it's an institution And that it's something organized It's something established and very defined
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That there is a hierarchy There is a certain order to it But in the same token
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It's an organism it's something living It is flowing It flourishes it grows
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It learns and things like this There's not a Parallel for that in The secular world
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While we have the state which The bible is very clear is instituted By God The state is not an organism
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In the way that the church is And it's certainly not purchased by the blood of Christ I can't find anywhere in Scripture where it says that Christ died
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For the propitiation of the republican party But I do find About how we are the ransom
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Saints of God and that he has Built us into a spiritual house We can
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There are a lot of great descriptions like that Because We have this beautiful temple in the old testament
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We have many beautiful temples And This is where they gathered to worship It was organized it was an institution
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And it was In some ways it actually Pointed to What God was going to build spiritually
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With his church And he was going to purchase it with his blood And so we've been built up In a spiritual house but it's not just This stony cold building
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It is something living It flows And it grows going back to Ephesians chapter 4
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And it says he himself gave some to be Apostles, some prophets, some evangelists
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Some pastors and teachers To do what? To equip the saints for the work of ministry
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To build up the body of Christ Until we all reach unity In the faith and in the knowledge of God's son
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Growing into maturity Stature Measured by Christ's fullness
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Then we will no longer be little children Meaning we're growing And we will not be
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Tossed by the waves and blown around By every wind of teaching By human cunning with cleverness
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And techniques or deceit But speaking the truth in love Let us grow in every way
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Into him who is the head, meaning Christ From him The whole body fitted and knit together
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By every supporting ligament Promotes the growth of the body For building up itself in love
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By the proper working Of each individual part And so it is
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Organized in that we have Leaders, we have We have roles, we have expectations
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But it's an organism In the sense that it grows It matures, it guides itself
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It learns, it adapts Not while straying from its original purpose But it is fluid
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It grows, it adapts I'm saying that a lot, but the point is The state does not grow beyond what it was
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Originally designed to do And when it does, it ceases to be God's design for the state
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Wait a minute Let's let Dan interject here Dan's bobbing on something
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Right there, go ahead Dan Our government has definitely grown beyond what it was Originally intended to do Our government's a blob
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Which is Have you ever seen the 1950 movies
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The Blob, it's like this Good borrowing and everything The Stay Puft Marshmallow Man Ghostbusters I think
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I agree with What you're saying though It's the only thing that continues to grow bigger Than what it was designed to And still be good and functional
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Yes It seems that we're growing more in a Dysfunctional sort of way
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We'll go with that Alright, so let's pick up Let's keep this moving
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I've got another question This, we want to This was asked that we address it
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On the podcast tonight So we are So Tyler gave us a great
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Scriptural Biblical explanation Of the purpose of the local church
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The function of the local church The function of the Offices within the local church
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So here's a question I would like to hear Some official thoughts
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That's not a question right there but still It's a statement being posed as a question Just go with it
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I'd like to hear some thoughts On official membership Official church membership
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I .e. being voted in Placed on the church roll Signing papers
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Versus just being committed to And involved in the local congregation Without any
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Official status And the actual question is Is commitment slash
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Involvement sufficient Or should the Christian make Quote unquote official
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Membership a priority Jesse let's start with you Amen Yes Churches need to make membership
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A priority They need to know who's who In the zoo
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You can't just come up Into church buildings nowadays And then leave
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So like The community Of God has a
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Privilege on one side And a responsibility on the other Side I agree
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And people need to know They need to know that Coming in It's not just a social club
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You don't go to church just to hang out Sure we have Relationships We do hang out at church by the way
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But at the same time That's not our primary goal So People like to think of church
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As a You know Where all the people go When they're scared
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You know what I mean So after 9 -11 if you remember 9 -12
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Church Attendance was like the highest In American history Because everybody went to church the next day
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You know what I mean And then like that same Sunday Church services was like Back to normal It was like the normal Attendance rate
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So because everybody thought that the world Was going to end the next day So it was like Everybody's going to church the next day
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So people like to think that church is just a place You just go when you're scared Or you know a social club
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You know what I mean Shame on those churches out there That are just social clubs
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And hangout spots For like college age people And then They ferment into like hookup spots
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And it's like They don't teach And disciple their people
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You know what I mean I don't know where I heard this from But the pastors are supposed to be feeding the sheep Not entertaining the goats
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Right And that's what happens a lot in church
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You know what I mean So people don't really put two and two together Like when they think of membership They think of Costco They're like what?
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Do I have to pay into this? You know what I mean First of all if you're paying into your church membership
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It sounds like a scam Exactly So you may want to double check that So yeah
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Church Because you know It depends on your eschatology Your view on the end times
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If your view on the end times is incredibly positive Obviously The world is getting
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Every Monday doesn't necessarily need to be a better place If you're like a post male But at the same time
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The world is getting better if you're a post male If you're dispensational The world is going to hell
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You have a very pessimistic point of view You know what I mean So like It depends on how you view the world
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The relationship with the church in the world You know churches are not You know a lot of churches are not
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Offering membership It's just a hangout spot So churches do need to make it a priority
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Because the world is becoming more secular More post Christian So you know
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It'd be really nice to have an institution Out there, the church To be a light on the shiny hill
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To be like this is the place This is the last institution Standing when the world collapses
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You know what I mean Just like the dark ages When the Roman Empire fell The only thing was standing was the church
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You got the monasteries Monasteries is the only thing there Everything else is just collapse You know what
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I mean The strong churches will stand And will last The weak churches won't last
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They're the ones that are getting swallowed up By the By the leftists
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And all the secular culture right now So church membership kind of does Put a stiff arm
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You know from Those flakes and those People who are really part of the sheep
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Those who follow Jesus they know his voice So you're going to obey the scriptures
36:30
And follow Jesus and not Become part of the membership Right so part of this
36:36
So are you saying then Part of the Issue that are taking place
36:43
And part of the challenge of folks Grasping the importance of Literal Official Status church membership
36:53
Is because the church Has been lax on this I agree with that Yes the church has been lax
37:00
You know what I mean and we can't judge The world based on our circle of influence You know what I mean
37:06
We go to church We're holding it down But like that doesn't mean
37:12
The church down the street Across the way across the river You know across the ocean
37:17
Is holding it down Obviously God knows who are his But you know what
37:22
I mean The world is becoming way more secular But at the same time Christ is still ruling So yeah it all depends on your view
37:29
In the end time see how that's going to work out But yeah the churches Definitely need to make it a priority
37:35
I agree so let's go To Dan So should the
37:42
Christian The Christian The believer in Jesus Christ The one who is born again
37:48
Make official membership A priority End your full screen
37:58
That's right Yeah absolutely They should make it a priority Because one of the issues
38:06
I think people have Wrapping their heads around the idea of church membership They don't think of it as the same thing
38:12
As kingdom citizenship Which really We should think
38:19
More In those terms than we do In terms of like club membership Or membership with some other
38:26
Organization that we're familiar with On earth Amen So if we think of it as a kingdom citizenship
38:34
Like if you go into a new Kingdom that you want to be a part of A new country that you're trying to be
38:39
A citizen of Yeah he's a handsome fella You're going to You're going to need to seek out
38:48
You know get your You want that citizenship You want to pass the test You want to get your green card so to speak
38:57
And what that does Is it gives you Or it entitles you to all the rights
39:02
And privileges of the people In that citizenry So when we think of those
39:07
Who are a part of the kingdom of God We When you think of church membership
39:15
And those who are a part of the kingdom of God What they have then access to Is to the teaching
39:22
Of the church Sacraments to Discipline from godly
39:28
Leaders who've been vetted and had their hands Laid on by people who have gone Hopefully but not always all the way back
39:34
To the apostles It's It's the way that God Has set things up It's one of those things where If you seek out church membership you're seeking
39:46
A Representation of kingdom citizenship Here on earth because you're
39:52
Making a claim that I'm living as one Who has hope in the gospel of Jesus Christ that one day
39:59
When everything is said and done I will Be a part of that kingdom and that Kingdom will be here on earth
40:05
Like Jesse was saying the shiny city On a hill So Rob let's jump up to you
40:11
You're sitting up there I can tell you've Got some deep thoughts happening So let's Pick your brain now on this
40:19
Let's talk a little bit further So we talk about the Importance of church membership
40:25
And I would say By a Consensus head nod
40:31
And amen whatever the case may Be is pastor I like to hear Amens if it's the truth
40:37
Do we have a consensus on the fact That official church Membership should be a priority in the
40:43
Life of a Christian amen I would say yes Yes alright so Rob on that note
40:51
What are the Benefits of Official church membership
40:57
I think a lot of us have touched On many of them already
41:06
You're going to receive love You're going to be able to give love There's That idea of taking care of one another
41:15
Accountability Being able to Discipleship And disciple others to be disciplined
41:21
And discipline others all For the purpose of reconciliation And glorifying
41:27
God Community fellowship
41:34
First and foremost Being obedient to Christ submitting To him And learning about him
41:41
Knowing him more loving him more Through all this So That and Many other reasons
41:51
While it's beneficial to Join a fellowship and be Officially a member on the rolls
41:57
At a local church As you guys were talking I was looking at some other verses
42:03
Just to quickly throw them in there Paul Paul makes
42:09
Distinctions and he makes lists If you look at Galatians chapter 6 Verse 10 he says therefore as we have
42:15
Opportunity let us do good to all People especially And there's the distinction especially
42:21
To those of the household of faith So there Paul is making a distinction Between yeah we're supposed to Do good to all men
42:28
But especially those within the household Of faith so how do we know who's in the Household of faith
42:35
It's those who are on the rolls And I think I think we have to do that Practically Because we're not
42:45
God You know God is able to judge the heart See the heart and make those distinctions
42:50
And make those Disciplines Because he knows
42:58
And he has the ability But for us Putting it on paper
43:08
A class Or an interview Making sure
43:13
That somebody is who is joining Your fellowship is truly Who they say they are
43:19
Those type of things Just because of our limitations We're not God And it helps us to determine those things
43:28
But then that one last verse That I wanted to mention was Galatians 6 talks about The distinction that Paul makes
43:34
And then he makes a list In 1 Timothy chapter 4 when he's talking about Taking care of the widows
43:42
Verse 9 A widow is to put on a list Only and then he gives the qualifications Of That she has to meet before she's put on a list
43:51
To be taken care of Yeah and there's a benefit For the widow That she's taken care of Yeah the local church
44:03
The local church Should Be The body
44:10
Should be the group That Particularly like you just read there
44:16
Takes care of its own I think One of the things
44:22
That I think And I don't know maybe this is not
44:28
The exact right term That I'm going to use here But one of the overblown
44:34
Ideas From within church membership Is that it is one particular
44:40
Church or one particular Association of churches responsibility To take care for the needs of the world
44:46
When the scriptures Teach us clearly like you just read That it is the
44:52
Responsibility of the local body To care for its own The church Like Reformation Baptist Church Can't take care of the whole world
45:02
We can take We can particularly zoom in And focus on those within The congregation that have needs
45:10
And we can better help Them with a concentrated Focus of care
45:16
Than we can sprinkling A little bit of care throughout the world Yeah a couple weeks ago
45:22
My pastor said there are no Poor in the church Because we take care of our own
45:28
Yeah And we're failing at our intended purpose And we're doing
45:34
What the world is supposed to do when they see us So the modern church Looks at the world and they say
45:40
We want to be that so we can attract More members but when in reality We're supposed to be
45:46
Lifting up and taking care of our Widows and our orphans and our own So that when the world looks in at us
45:52
They say I want that And we've got a good flock Yeah and that goes to That goes to your question
46:00
Rob Or your statement you said I think we should touch on The false way that so many
46:06
View church membership as Consumers Yeah exactly Rather than as believers
46:13
So Tyler We've not got to you in a minute
46:18
Let's ask this question to you So how is church Membership viewed consumeristically
46:30
Or basically Let me put it another way I'll break it down like this Let me say this
46:35
How is church membership viewed As though that you're going
46:40
To jumbo buffet For lunch and you've got about a thousand Different things that you like That are set before you
46:48
But you only want a few How is that happening with folks in the world Today There's quite a few avenues
46:56
Where we see that Taking shape some of it depends On certain persuasions
47:02
For example We talked a while back About the songs we sing And about often we focus on A particular style
47:11
Or a particular sound And then there are some elements like that That we go to this church
47:17
Because we like music Or we like the accent the guy Preaches in or things like that And so there's that pick and choose
47:25
Kind of notion there that it's Who's closer to my preference As opposed to who's closer
47:31
To the bible And then moving outwards a little bit With consumerism to Like you said about Looking at it not as believers but as Consumers or as Customers that we
47:45
Might enter a church looking Solely to be served and that's the Main focus is where Will I be served
47:54
Which is something I'm sure we're all guilty of at some point That's a selfish
48:00
Mindset. Should the church Serve? Absolutely But that shouldn't be our prime directive
48:06
Is to be served Right And so there's
48:11
Different layers to how we look At the church as if we're Customers And the church is like a
48:20
Grocery store that we come in We get the service I put my money In the basket and I go on my merry
48:26
Little way I pay this Amount to the tithe
48:32
Every week so I should have This say in what songs We sing or things like that And we get
48:40
Into that mindset as well that I own the church That I can direct the church
48:46
Because I'm an investor I'm a customer I'm a consumer There are different aspects there
48:53
Right And so there is a Growth issue that combats
48:59
That going back To this idea of growth that we are Sanctified by coming
49:05
Under the word of God by being surrounded By the people of God And that is something that is rooted out through Our sanctification
49:13
Philippians chapter 2 tells us To work out our salvation with Fear and with trembling
49:18
For it is God that works in you Amen And so as we approach the church
49:24
We are approaching we have to approach the church As people that are Working out the deeper points of their
49:31
Salvation with fear and trembling That is that we we know who God is we know that God needs to be
49:37
Taken seriously and that We are wretched sinners in need Of a great savior And that we are willing to Dive deep into who
49:46
God Is what he's done and how We become benefactors of that In theological
49:52
Terms we call that the person and work Of Christ who he is What he did and how we
49:58
Become recipients of that And I think that undergirds everything The church is
50:04
Who Christ is what he did and how we Become a part of that And that also plays into our
50:10
Sanctification as well as The Holy Spirit but that is a whole other conversation That when we come
50:16
Under the lordship of God When the fact that Christ is King is realized in our lives
50:22
There is there is Change there is growth there is Pruning as we are being conformed
50:29
To the image of Christ In every thought word Indeed including
50:34
How we operate in the church Amen Amen let's move to We got two more questions two more
50:42
Issues we'll try to confront here So Rob This question here
50:47
Talk to us about this and we're going to jump back over to Jesse What does it mean that the back door
50:53
Should be easier to get out of Than the front What did you mean by that So that comes up a lot when you
51:00
When you actually Confront study and Try to redevelop the biblical
51:06
Doctrine of church discipline In your church again and so You Just as a pastor
51:15
Wants to protect the pulpit When he has to be absent And he wants He needs someone to fill in he wants somebody in there
51:22
That he can trust that's going to preach the word That's going to feed his flock That's going to exposit scripture
51:28
And so the same thing is true For the church We're supposed to Protect our flock
51:36
And that's part of the Responsibility of the pastor And the church itself Is protecting its flock
51:43
And so There's the concept and the idea of Unregenerate church membership
51:52
Right There's Fearfully a lot of people
51:58
That we put on our roles That are unregenerate And so You look at the topic
52:06
Of easy believism Just trying to get As many people as you can down the aisle
52:11
Get them baptized All the roles Just so you can Escalate your numbers
52:18
And look good in your associations Or whatever And so we make it so easy
52:25
But we Give people a false sense of hope And enable them to continue to live
52:32
Their lives in the world As long as they checked a few boxes And that causes trouble
52:38
Within the church Because people aren't thinking The Holy Spirit's not working People aren't thinking biblically
52:45
They're not thinking in terms of what Christ What God would have us do here in the church But as Tyler was pointing out
52:51
It's how can it best serve me How can it best serve my family What do
52:57
I want in the church And so It should be harder
53:02
To get in the front door Than it Is the back I get you
53:09
I hear you now We want to protect our flock And it's also not just to protect our flock
53:16
But also to protect Those who are wanting in To give them
53:22
A better assurance of their faith And help them understand their Relationship with God and not give them a false sense of hope
53:28
And then The back door Is that subject
53:34
Of church discipline Which we'll get to in another podcast Church discipline
53:40
It's not familiar To folks anymore But when we talk about church discipline The first thing that people think about Is we don't want to Throw people out of the church
53:51
And cast stones and judge people And that's not all That's like the very last
53:58
Resort that you rarely Come to is kicking somebody Out of the church
54:06
It's going to Some person One on one And the whole process
54:13
Is the goal is Reconciliation With God and with the church But it
54:20
Should be easier to Go through that process As a church
54:26
Than Actually getting in I would
54:32
Go even I would go even further and just Not even talk about Not even think about a back door
54:39
Because that's the whole point of church membership Is being there Being committed
54:44
Being caring Being disciplined And staying for the long run
54:52
Church membership Is viewed as a temporary thing Oh I'll just go here
54:58
So Jesse I noticed in messenger earlier You're in Colorado right?
55:05
I am The great states Middle earth So The rest of these guys were all
55:14
East coast And Dan You're from Kentucky originally right?
55:21
North Carolina North Carolina So you're raised in the country Tyler's raised in the country
55:27
Rob's raised in the country I don't know if you was raised in the country or not Jesse But the thing about church membership
55:35
In the south In the bible belt Is basically
55:41
You go to a church And then When something happens that you don't like You don't
55:49
Get mad but you act spiritual And you say this I feel like the lord's telling me
55:56
It's time to move on So That is
56:05
Spiritualizing That is Spiritualizing and Demonstrating and evidencing
56:13
Spiritual immaturity Because the spiritually mature Christian Looks at church
56:21
I Probably get hate mail for this But I'm going to say it I think that a
56:27
Christian needs to look at church Membership the same way we look At marriage For the long haul
56:35
Because When we join A local body We are joining
56:42
That local body To care for, to love To spend, to laugh with To cry with, to rejoice with To get mad at even
56:53
Because that's the reality of it We're going to get mad Who are the people we get mad at the most in this world?
56:59
Probably if you're like me It's your family members And your family members You got to be able to smack in the back of the head
57:07
Now I'm not saying this as a pastor I'm just saying this brother to brother You got to be with You got to be able to smack them in the back of the head
57:15
And say you are acting Acting like an idiot Why don't you straighten up This is what the
57:21
Bible says Let's go to God in prayer together Let's work through this Let's go the extra mile together here
57:29
And let's work through this And what happens when that takes place Is that Our bond is strengthened
57:37
Within the body Our love for one another is strengthened Because guess what We realize that when we look at our brothers and sisters
57:45
In Christ That they ain't no different than we are That they fall
57:51
And that they fail But we have the same Savior And we have the same advocate that we go to We have the same
58:00
Lord that we cry And confess our sins to And He is faithful And just to forgive us our sins
58:07
And to cleanse us from all Unrighteousness Church membership should be centered
58:12
Around Christ And not around ourselves When that's the case The body itself is blessed
58:20
And the Individual Christian is blessed Wait a second, Becky's saying something here
58:26
Let me bring this up If my husband hits me in the back of the head I'm coming for you,
58:32
Claude No, no, no Here's the thing It's a shame that we gotta make a disclaimer
58:39
On this As a pastor myself I'm not saying this is how we treat church members I am saying
58:45
Brother to brother Sister to sister In Christ We need to have a relationship
58:52
Such and so That we can be completely honest with one another
58:58
And so If Dan And I'll say this, Becky If Dan does that The rest of these guys here
59:05
We're gonna pull our money We'll get a plane ticket And we'll come and whoop Dan if he does that Cause that is not a husband
59:14
Loving his wife like Christ loves the church I think all four of us Can take him, guys
59:20
No, no I might be in New York But I believe in the second amendment So Let's Move to a close here
59:31
Jesse, let's close with you here Why is it Would you say it's important To keep a
59:38
To clean and maintain An updated church Membership role
59:45
Well, because you wanna know Who's actually going to church You know what
59:50
I mean, cause you don't wanna be having Like a family member Or like a person
59:55
You know, on your roles Who hasn't been there for years You know what
01:00:01
I mean If that's the case I would question Whoever's updating the spreadsheets
01:00:08
They probably need to Choose a better person For that job You're fired
01:00:14
You know what I mean I don't know, maybe when somebody leaves
01:00:19
Or transitions Or a church membership transfer Maybe after Maybe give them a year, maybe less
01:00:27
Six months, a year You know what I mean It's up to every session
01:00:33
Or church leadership to decide On the maximum Or minimum But you definitely wanna keep tabs on Updating the spreadsheet
01:00:43
Imagine if you never updated The address on your license For the past 10 years
01:00:49
The past 15 years You know what I mean, you'd be like Wow, I still have that address
01:00:54
You know what I mean It's just like Sooner or later it's gonna come bite you in the butt
01:01:00
You're like, come on, update your address On your license, man, come on Or imagine if you don't update your tags
01:01:06
On your car, you know what I mean You're gonna get pulled over once in a while It's gonna be embarrassing, you're gonna be like Oh, Rob still comes to this church
01:01:14
You know, they're like, who? Rob? They're like Dude, he left back in 72
01:01:22
Yeah You're like Oh You know what
01:01:27
I mean So I think it's important to keep You know, to If you read one of the books called
01:01:34
Nine Marks of a Healthy Church One of the chapters in there says It's about growth And obviously to grow you need to prune
01:01:41
You know, discipleship And you know Discipline is involved in growth
01:01:48
You know what I mean And you need to prune So like, when you remove church You know, church members
01:01:55
You know, people need Churches need to edit all that stuff So yeah, when you got two new couples
01:02:01
They got maybe, you know Somebody changed their last name or somebody became a widow So yeah, it's incredibly important You know what
01:02:08
I mean I think if a pastor says I don't know anybody I only know faces and I don't know anybody
01:02:15
In here, in this room, you know what I mean And like And vice versa If a church member says,
01:02:21
I don't even know You know, my pastor I don't even know, is he married? You know what
01:02:27
I mean Like, does he even live here? You know what I mean If the elder and deacon are looking at each other
01:02:32
You're an elder Uh oh I think he may have hit a button
01:02:41
That was not church discipline We can't hear you
01:02:51
We can't hear you Can you hear me?
01:03:03
Yeah, now we can Alright, sorry about that If an elder and a deacon are looking at each other
01:03:10
And they don't know each other I'd say that's a bad sign Communication is key as well
01:03:17
Cause, you know Like a member If a member wants to leave the church There's a process
01:03:24
And there's a right way and a wrong way To leave a church, right So like, if a church member If a church member is leaving
01:03:32
Vanishing You know what I mean I think the elders have the responsibility somehow To keep tabs, like call them, email them
01:03:39
Drop by, buy a visit And going back to the idea you were mentioning You know, you're in it for the long haul
01:03:46
I think I think you could definitely find that In church history Cause when you go back to the early days of the colonials
01:03:53
Especially in England Ireland and stuff like that You go to these old churches
01:03:59
And what do you see? Yeah You see cemeteries You see cemeteries behind churches, old churches
01:04:06
Now in the modern day it's kind of creepy But, you know what I mean You're like, whoa You don't want to be there after 10 o 'clock
01:04:14
But in the old days They had church buildings Had like their own water well
01:04:20
You know what I mean, they had their own cemeteries They were self -sufficient They were like islands They had everything, their own gardens
01:04:29
There's something to that Being self -reliant type community That I think we kind of lost
01:04:36
During the, I don't know Industrial revolution Or after World War II Or something like that That we kind of, we may need back
01:04:44
In the future probably You know what I mean And that probably does have to come down From legislation
01:04:50
Because that comes down to building code Like you can't just build a building And have a cemetery, you know what
01:04:56
I mean And it's like, well back in the day You know what I mean, a lot of cemeteries Are built right next to churches
01:05:02
So, you know I'd like somebody who would change that And we could fix that You know what
01:05:10
I mean I agree, and in closing I would add this one last thing
01:05:16
And then Rob If you wouldn't care to Close us out with the gospel here in a minute But the importance of maintaining church
01:05:23
Membership role like what you just said Jesse, is very very important And I would go
01:05:29
A step further and say It's very important So that as the church
01:05:35
Is designed and set up to be Under a plurality of elders With deacons serving
01:05:41
So that the Elders can love And pastor and care
01:05:47
For the folks that are there Goes back to that concentrated care We can't care
01:05:53
For the church member that's on the role That ain't been there in 20 years There's I mean there's no way to keep up with that But when you know who's there
01:06:03
Regularly, then you can Set aside Time, effort
01:06:09
Energy, resources To actually focus On those members
01:06:15
So that they get the best care possible Whether it's Encouragement, whether it's discipline
01:06:22
Whether it's food Physical needs, right Food, electricity Whatever the case may be
01:06:28
So that we actually do What Christ commanded us to do And that is care for one another
01:06:34
Guys, this is a big topic Rob had laid us out Big time on this
01:06:40
Rob, I hope I did you justice On this. Rob's usually The one leading here
01:06:46
He got kind of a reprieve Tonight, just to sit and be put on The spot and answer questions
01:06:52
But thankful again Rob, you gave us this opportunity To host tonight
01:06:58
Any of you guys got any Closing comments? One minute closing comment Let's start with Tyler Tyler, start your timer
01:07:07
One minute closing comments On the importance of church membership I would say
01:07:15
Invest in the body of Christ I would say As we've been talking about all night
01:07:21
Be rooted In this community Even with the hard stuff Even when it gets complicated and messy
01:07:28
That we invest in people That this is important This is worth the work
01:07:34
Amen Rob, why is church membership Important? Local church membership I would just echo that I know we've talked a lot about having names on roles
01:07:44
But those names on roles We have responsibility From Scripture To be involved
01:07:51
And so I would echo what Tyler was saying That if you join a church Become a church member
01:07:57
Dig into Scripture and obey Christ Amen Dan, why is church
01:08:03
Local church membership important? Local church membership Is important because God has given us
01:08:11
A group of people to work With in order to Push each other closer
01:08:17
To Christ To remind each other of the gospel To uplift each other And to go out and build something
01:08:25
In the community Which is the kingdom of God Now obviously God does the actual Heavy lifting
01:08:30
But He's called us to go out there And to disciple the nations And to baptize people and command them
01:08:36
To do everything that God has told us to do It gives meaning and purpose to your life
01:08:46
It's something to do It's what God has called you to do If He called you to do it, it's not going to disappoint
01:08:52
Amen And Jesse Switching gears Question, who's the head of the church?
01:08:59
Christ, Christ is the head of the church That's right Not the Pope That's right
01:09:06
Many members One body What's the importance of the local church?
01:09:13
Jesse I really have That person who's on the fence
01:09:19
I have him in mind Because there's many people out there That are on the fence about Joining the church
01:09:26
And I want to direct this last second To them Listen, you know
01:09:31
The secular world is going to give you Despair That's the result of secularism
01:09:37
It gives you despair The church, the gospel Because of the gospel
01:09:43
Is going to give you hope It's going to give you hope You know what
01:09:49
I mean And you cannot find that hope Outside of the church And that's because the church has the gospel
01:09:55
Amen And that's part of God's plan Is to use the church
01:10:01
To spread the gospel, spread the hope So if you're thinking That you can find hope in the world
01:10:06
You know what I mean, you cannot You can only find despair Deep, dark despair
01:10:12
And if you're looking for hope, you're not going to find it There's no hope in the world You know what I mean, there's no salvation
01:10:17
Outside of Jesus You cannot have God as your father Without having the church as your mother
01:10:24
I think somebody said Amen Guys, thank you,
01:10:29
Rob Lead us out Tell us about the hope, the head Yeah, we have no
01:10:36
Greater desire, any of us Than people, others Coming to know Jesus Christ As their
01:10:42
Lord and Savior God saving them And so Just as Ray Comfort said
01:10:49
We don't know that we need a cure Until we know that we have a problem And so we
01:10:54
Follow scripture and let the law Lead us to Christ, and how do we do that? We look at God's law
01:11:00
Which reflects His character And who He is and His requirements Of perfection
01:11:06
And we see that we have broken All of His commandments, if you break it down We've broken every single one of them
01:11:12
But just to reassure you We have all lied, we have all stolen No matter its value
01:11:18
We've all looked with lust We've all dishonored Our parents
01:11:24
We've all blasphemed in some way And the list goes on and on and on We have broken God's law, and James 2
01:11:31
Verse 10 says if we've kept the whole law And even stolen at one point We're guilty of it all
01:11:36
So we need a Savior We need rescuing, we need someone Outside of us to come in And deliver us and rescue us
01:11:45
Because we can't do it ourselves We are, as Jesse said We are in deep, dark despair
01:11:50
Being in the world And God in His Mercy and His kindness to glorify
01:11:56
Himself and to love us Sent forth His one and only Son That everyone believing in Him Might not
01:12:05
Perish but have everlasting life Scripture calls us to repent of our sin Turn from our sin
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And put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ And there's No greater No greater gift to us
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To hear that you have Repented of your sins, put your faith and trust In Jesus Christ, and that's how
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God Brings most glory to Himself Is saving Wretches, saving
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His own Enemies, and we would encourage you And exhort you to repent of your sins And put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ Tonight Amen, amen, so guys hang out here