The Here I Stand Theology Podcast (The Laborers Podcast on Church Membership)

It's what y 'all need to be listening for. Yo, let me explain what I mean. It's not too complex. It's preaching God's Word in its proper context. As you listen, be discerning. What you have to determine.

What's the point of the passage? The point of the sermon? If not, this problem must be confronted today. Cause he just used the Bible to say what he wanted to say. And even if it's delivered with fire and intelligence.

That's basically making what God has inspired irrelevant. Instead of applying the Word's realities. A lot of passage relying on personality. But gifts of communication Can never be a true replacement.

For the Holy Spirit's illumination. Without exposition, you'll lack major profit. All you'll get is tradition and your passive favorite topics. And that can be a slippery slope. The Word should be giving you hope.

It's due to just giving you jokes. That won't help you love cry. It won't help your obedience. We need more expositors, not more comedians. But shepherds who labor in the text. Then faithfully connect you to the Savior.

Then wait for its effects. God gives the increase. Holiness loves unity. The Word faithfully preached builds up the whole community. If not, your Sunday meal will not last. And you'll have to supplement it with the podcast.

Don't entertain us, that won't sustain us. Preach the Word, preach the Word, preach the Word. This verse right here, it's for the pastors. I just want to encourage y 'all, man. Yeah, y 'all should be mindful of this.

About Jesus, all of the Bible is about Jesus. The Old Testament, Jesus Christ concealed. The New Testament, Jesus Christ revealed. This truth of the Lord Christ boldly conveyed this. In Luke 24, on the road to Emmaus.

The law, the prophets, and the teachings of apostles. All of these point back to Jesus in the gospel. So if the work of Christ is what the Word is about. Ultimately, that should be what the sermon's about.

Forget applause, you got to. Let the cross rock you. All roads in the Bible lead to Golgotha Whatever the text, faithfulness demands. That we should hear the echoes of nails hit in His hands. Don't try to be original, say the old story.

And watch your people change as they behold glory. The glory of Jesus, we need to see that. Preach the Word, preach the Word.

The Church Is the Household of God

All right, all right, welcome to the Labor's Podcast. 1 Timothy chapter 3, verse 14 through 16. This is the Word of the Living God. Paul said, I hope to come to you soon But I am writing these things to you So that if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave In the household of God Which is the church of the Living God A pillar and buttress of the truth.

Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness. He was manifested in the flesh Vindicated by the Spirit Seen by angels Proclaimed among the nations And believed on in the world Taken up into glory.

So guys, how are y 'all doing tonight?

Doing good.

Doing all right.

Good, so tonight we are going to be talking about the church, right? And more particularly, church membership. What is church membership? Can we make a biblical case? These are some of the things that we're going to talk about.

We're going to talk about a false view of church membership. A consumeristic view of church membership. Different kinds of church membership. What makes church membership different from anything else on the earth?

Is having or requiring a local church role or membership even biblical? And what are our roles and responsibilities when it comes to church membership? Not to mention a couple of other questions. That sounds like a whole lot that we're going to be tackling today.

But I believe it will be well worth it. It will be beneficial for us. It will be beneficial for those who are watching This podcast. But right before we get into this. Since I get to host this tonight The Here I Stand Theology Podcast I'm making a big announcement tonight.

So tonight officially The Here I Stand Theology Podcast has become a member of the Truth in Love Network. So Rob, tell us about the Truth in Love Network. What it's all about. Where we're heading.

Truth in Love Network is just whatever God wants it to be. My desire is for my community. And I have been hoping, praying, and seeking and loving the fellowship That God has brought together so far. And we're praying and hoping and seeking that God would bring More men together that are like-minded in theology.

But also with a desire to reach their community. And so together, I'm hoping that God will use us To help each other reach our respective communities. And then we want to support each other in what we are doing individually.

With our own individual podcast or preaching, church planning Whatever you guys are doing. We want to support one another as we do that. And then once a week, come together and just fellowship as brothers.

And reach our community together as one podcast. And yeah, we're off to a great start. We've been doing it for a while, but we're trying to make it more official. And the Lord is blessing in that.

Awesome, awesome. So tonight, let's do something. Let's kind of add a niche to our conversation tonight. So tonight, as we approach these questions. As we approach these issues. As we approach church membership.

What it is, what it's about. Is it biblical, so on and so forth. Let's do this. Let's make this like we are sitting at a table with each other. We'll pretend like these five squares on the screen in front of us.

Are just chairs which we're sitting at and we're staring at each other. And so as we are talking tonight. If Tyler, if you want to interject. You just say, hold on a minute, right? Dan will say, hang on a minute there, youngster.

Jesse will say, all right, I got something to say, right? So let's make this fully conversational. Let's bring this down to. Let's make this rubber meets the road talk tonight. So which one of y 'all would like to start in on.

Can we make a biblical case for church membership? Hint, hint, I read some scripture that points to it.

Can I go?

Yeah, go ahead.

Biblical Case for Church Membership in Ephesians and Philippians

So let me start off with Ephesians chapter 4. Ephesians is one of my favorite books in the Bible. But Ephesians 4 is unique. He's writing to the church, Paul is. But he's writing a very encouraging letter.

He's been hammering a lot of churches pretty hard with some stuff for a while. But Ephesians is encouragement. It's very encouraging instruction. And he starts off in chapter 4 with. Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, urge you to live worthy of the calling you have received.

That's salvation that we've been called into the family of God. And we are to live worthy of that calling with humility and gentleness. With patience, bearing with one another in love. Making every effort to keep the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace.

There is one body, one Lord, one spirit. Just as you were called to one hope at your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of all who is above all and through all and in all. That there is this unity that we have in Christ.

That we are brought together into one body. We're one person. And this thing we call the church is a gathering of like-minded Christians. We are all brought into this assembly. And we abide in Christ together.

We bear with one another in love. We are united in not just our calling. Not just the fact that we're saved. But we're united in mission. We're united in worship. We're united in who God is. That we're all underneath the banner of who Christ is and what he's done.

That's good, guys. How can we complement that?

From what I see, the doctrine of church membership is very similar to the doctrine of the Trinity. You don't have a specific verse. You have to use your systematic theology like we talked about last time.

And draw your different verses together to help understand that God is triune. And so I think the same thing is true when it comes to church membership. There's no one particular verse that says. When you gather at one place.

Because it's geographically friendly with your neighbors. And you're all people whom God has saved. Create a role. You don't have that particular verse. But what you see is that concept and that idea taught throughout Scripture.

The idea of God marking people is all throughout Scripture. There's a mark that he talks about for. You know, on the hand and the forehead for the antichrist. And then there's a mark of the lamb for people.

And that's not talked about as much as the other mark or the mark of the beast. That the mark of the lamb is not talked about as much. Here as individuals, we're supposed to mark out those among you. You know, who are false teachers.

We're to mark out the widows and the orphans. And then you have in Scripture. We hear talk about the Lamb's Book of Life where God does have a role. And he knows whom are his. And then we learn from Christ that he teaches us to pray.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And so, you know, if God is marking and knows whom are his. Then, yeah, I think we can do that here on earth. By knowing whom God has drawn to himself.

And then that leads us practically to the application of it. The church discipline, the helping of the widows and the orphans, and all that stuff.

Right, and so we'll get into that in more detail, too. So what you're explaining there, would you say that it's really Pointing toward the church universal there? Because the references you pointed out.

We're really talking about the body of Christ as a whole, the church, the church universal.

Right, yeah, and that's how it starts out off. But that as our example, when we move to our geographically friendly locations. It works out practically to help us in those other areas that we were talking about.

Church discipline, I mean, you can't kick somebody out if you don't have anybody in.

So Jesse, let's go to you, the biblical case for church membership.

Absolutely, I would like to think of, you know, back to a letter of Paul. In Philippians chapter 1, verses 3 and 5 Paul says something that's very unique, somewhat overlooked. And he uses a phrase that I actually come to like more and more.

And this one he says, and I quote, I thank my God every time I remember you. In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy. Because of your partnership in the gospel. From the first day until now.

I want to focus in that little phrase, because of your partnership in the gospel. From the first day until now, so the last part of that section. And he is very thankful of this partnership. Now, this partnership of what Paul has in mind is not a business partnership.

Is not a, you know, 50 -50 investment type partnership. Like an entrepreneurship, right? He has more in mind like a fellowship, more in mind like the word koinia. Which has the connotation of fellowship.

And koinia here is actually reference, is translated as partnership. In this, you know, verse here. And a lot of people do relate it to business. But I like to take it a little bit more higher than that.

And because we get to enjoy each other, you know, fellowship. When we get together every Sunday, you know what I mean? And that body, that assembly, which is the word kosea is assembly. When we get together, we become this assembly.

This special body. Right, and there's many bodies in the world that actually try to be like the church. I call them wannabes. And most people think about the United Nations as a great example of a body.

Of an assembly of people called out together. That are together for one purpose. But yet they can't get along. They're not really a great example of what the church really is. So that koinia, when we get together, we actually have that fellowship.

We get to enjoy our fellowship. This is the context where, you know, where, you know. The context of, you know, where we share each other's gifts. Where we build each other up. And that immediately takes me to the world.

Because the world is very lonely, very dark, very isolated. The individualistic people out there, culture and all that. People don't have relationships.

They really don't.

It's very shallow if they do. And all you have to do is take a quick look at statistics. And you will see that these relationships that exist in the world Are shallow, very weak, you know what I mean?

And it's nothing in comparison with a brother in Christ. Sometimes your relationship with your brothers and sisters in Christ Is actually way more deeper and meaningful Than your relationship with your own family in some context.

You know what I mean?

And, you know, it takes me to another verse in Ecclesiastes. This koinia and action type thing. And in Ecclesiastes chapter 4, section verses 9 and 10 He says, two are better than one. Yeah, two are better than one.

If one of them falls down, one can help each other up, right? But pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them up. That's the world out there, you know what I mean? They're all against one another.

You know, the homies, the friendships are shallow.

They're weak.

They don't really help each other, you know what I mean? It's like tick for tack. You scratch my back, I'll scratch your back. So Christ and the Christ community. Because what we're talking about is a community here.

That doesn't really exist. At least it's not supposed to be like that. You know, we walked with the brother. We walked with the widow. We walked with the orphan. Like extra miles.

You know what I mean?

Somebody told me, if you want to be an elder in the church Just go ahead and lay down like a speed bump right there. Because you're going to get around over a ton.

You know what I mean?

And you got to do it to the glory of Christ. You know, it's a lot of service for the elders. And it's not to be served, right? And the world out there is very looking to be served. And what's in it for me?

And that's not the community that Paul has in mind here. That he's thankful of. You're not really thankful for people who take advantage of you.

You know what I mean?

You're not really thankful for cheaters and liars and back biters. And stuff like that. You're thankful for your pastor preaching. You're thankful for that encouraging word you got on Sunday. You know, that fellowship meal.

That koinia that we're supposed to get every Sunday. And you can't get that if you're not in church.

Yeah, and it takes us back to Jesus' words The Son of Man came not to be served But to serve and to give his life a ransom for many.

Right?

So you just hit on a bunch of the questions there. So let's move over to Dan. Dan, the biblical case for church membership.

You know, I don't know is that the Bible makes a case for church membership. And here's why I say that. It's because the Bible doesn't really argue for it. Because it just assumes it. It kind of just assumes church membership.

As you go through it. Everything that you come up against where it deals with a church setting. There's authority structures. Which you have to define, you know, who's in, who's out. If you're going to discipline someone.

Who can be disciplined, who's not. Even the Apostle Paul talking about. You should judge those who are inside of the church. And not those who are out. Because God will judge those who are outside of the church.

Paul again in Hebrews. Because that's who wrote Hebrews. Fight me about it.

I agree, man. We can arm wrestle. But we're arm wrestling for the same thing.

He says in, I think it's chapter 10 Not to forsake the assembling over yourselves together. How do you know who to go meet with If you don't have a group of folks there. They chose from the godly men.

Those who would be deacons. I mean, it just goes on and on. Paul was looking for people who were Who would want to be worshiping on the Lord's day. So he went down there to the place where the church would gather.

There's, it's not argued for in the New Testament. Because it's assumed. It was just, you know. If God's going to call people to himself Then those people who are gathered around the gospel Are going to be his people.

And those people are just to act a certain way. They're held to a certain standard. Or they are brought under discipline.

So, yeah.

I agree, I agree. And Jesse, I thought you was reading my mind When you went to Philippians there. Because, I mean, if you go right to the very first verse of Philippians there, right. So what does Paul say?

Let me get there, sorry I'm not bringing this all up on the computer tonight. I'm doing it manually. So Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus. To all the saints in Christ Jesus Who are at Philippi.

With the overseers and the deacons. There we have the structure of the local church. In two verses right there. The saints, the deacons, and the elders are the overseers. We have it all right there. The Belgic Confession talks about the church.

Marks of the church. Article 28 of the Belgic Confession states. We believe since this holy congregation Is an assembly of those who are saved And out of it there is no salvation. That no person of whatsoever state or condition He may be ought to withdraw himself to live in a separate state from it.

But that all men are in duty bound to join and unite themselves with it. Maintaining the unity of the church. Submitting themselves to the doctrine and discipline thereof. Bowing their necks under the yoke of Jesus Christ.

And as mutual members of the same body Serving to the edification of the brethren According to the talents that God has given them. That's succinct right there. That's a stick of dynamite. That'll blow a mailbox up right there.

We're all done, all right. Thank you for joining us.

What were you reading the Belgic Confession out of?

My Bible The Reformation Study Bible. It's got all the creeds and confessions in the back of it.

Gotcha.

Yeah, it's handy. It's handy to have all of them there together. So Rob, let's go back to you here now. Let's talk about different types of church memberships. You started us on this path here. Let's go ahead and continue.

What are, by different types, different kinds of church memberships. So we have universal, the universal church. The church body as a whole referred to as Catholic. And we have the local church. Talk to us a little bit about that.

Yeah, and I mean, this is a discussion that I would like to have with you guys sometime Just to pick your brain. Because some people talk about us carrying over that word church From a different place.

Us Protestants may not use that word. But it's the most familiar word to us. So we continue to use it. But I think we're more familiar with assembly. Or could use the word assembly. But I think what I was talking about there is The different areas of our membership.

I mean, when we're born again, when God saves us initially He brings us into His assembly His kingdom His church. That's the universal, or capital C, Catholic Or lowercase c, Catholic church. And so that's where we start.

And then the verse that Dan quoted to us It's going to be like our, well, I guess it'll have to be our If we grew up outside the church. In many cases, and things may be changing. Because in the last several decades Most people were, or would maybe claim to be church goers.

People took their families to church. And many people were saved in church. But things may be moving in a different direction. So we used to talk about the first act of obedience is baptism. But now if you're outside the church Or got saved outside the church Didn't grow up in the church.

Maybe your first act of obedience is going to that Hebrews verse that Dan was talking about And finding that local assembly. Where then you can become baptized as a believer For the first time. And then you join that local assembly.

And that's where you yourself can be accountable To brothers and sisters. You can keep others accountable. You can be fed. You can feed others. And you can, you know, just like the characteristics We represent God and we reflect Him in that.

Where, you know, God shares His characteristics Among the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Where they are able to show love towards one another. They are able to communicate with one another.

And so the same thing is true When we reflect Him amongst one another. In that local assembly We're able to, you know, love one another Serve one another Discipline one another And so on and so forth.

So that's kind of what I mean in helping us understand And making those distinctions between the universal church Versus the local assembly.

Yeah, and so I can see a credo versus pedo debate. Brewing between you and Dan right now. Or were you sprinkling?

I was sprinkling, yeah.

I thought you were sprinkling. All right, so. Matt, by the way, we didn't get to. We brought it up there. Matt Breeding's on with us. He said, hi, there's another Facebook user on. But that's all that comes up.

Facebook user, we don't know who you are. Tell us who you are in the comments. And we'll give you a shout out. All right, so. Universal invisible church. Local visible. I know those sometimes are taken kind of, you know.

They ought to be taken at face value. What they're talking about. So Jesse, or let's go to. Let's actually go to Tyler. Jesse, you had mentioned this. But let's see what Tyler has to say about this. What makes church membership different from anything on earth?

The Church as Institution and Organism

Abraham Kuyper, a philosopher from about 100 years ago So you know where I'm going. He once wrote in a fantastic book that is very hard to read That the church is both an institution and an organism. Sorry, that it's an institution and an organism.

That it's an institution. And that it's something organized. It's something established and very defined. That there is a hierarchy There is a certain order to it. But in the same token, it's an organism.

It's something living It is flowing It flourishes It grows It learns and things like this. There's not a parallel for that in the secular world. While we have the state Which the Bible is very clear is instituted by God.

The state is not an organism in the way that a church is. And it's certainly not purchased by the blood of Christ. I can't find anywhere in scripture where it says That Christ died for the propitiation of the Republican Party.

But I do find about how we are the ransom saints of God. And that he has built us into a spiritual house. There are a lot of great descriptions like that. Because we have this beautiful temple in the Old Testament.

We have many beautiful temples. And this is where they gathered to worship. It was organized. It was an institution. And in some ways it actually pointed to What God was going to build spiritually with his church.

And who's going to purchase it with his blood. And so we've been built up in a spiritual house. But it's not just this stony cold building. It is something living. It flows and that it grows. Going back to Ephesians chapter 4.

And it says he himself gave some to be apostles Some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers. To do what? To equip the saints for the work of ministry. To build up the body of Christ Until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God's son.

Growing into maturity Stature measured by Christ's fullness. Then we will no longer be little children. Meaning we're growing. And we will not be tossed by the waves And blown around by every wind of teaching.

By human cunning with cleverness and techniques or deceit. But speaking the truth in love. Let us grow in every way into him who is the head Meaning Christ. From him the whole body fitted and knit together By every supporting ligament.

Promotes the growth of the body for building up itself in love By the proper working of each individual part. So it is organized in that we have leaders. We have rules We have expectations. But it's an organism in the sense that it grows.

It matures. It guides itself. It learns. It adapts. Not while straying from its original purpose. But it is fluid. It grows. I'm saying that a lot. But the point is The state does not grow beyond what it was originally designed to do.

And when it does It ceases to be God's design for the state.

Wait a minute. Let's let Dan interject here. He's bobbing on something right there. Go ahead, Dan.

Our government has definitely grown beyond what it was originally intended to do.

Our government is the blob.

Have you ever seen the 1950s movies?

The Blob.

It's like this Bowery and everything.

The Stay Puft Marshmallow Man Ghostbusters.

I think I agree with what you're saying though. It's the only thing that continues to grow bigger than what it was designed to. And still be good and functional. Because it seems that we're growing more in a Dysfunctional sort of way.

We'll go with that.

All right, so let's pick up. Let's keep this moving. I got another question. This we want to. This was asked that we address it on the podcast tonight. So Tyler gave us a great Scriptural, biblical explanation of the purpose of the local church.

The function of the local church. The function of the offices within the local church. So here's a question I would like to hear some official thoughts. That's not a question right there. But still, it's a statement being posed as a question.

Just go with it. I'd like to hear some thoughts on official membership. Official church membership. I .e. being voted in. Placed on the church roll. Signing papers. Versus just being committed to And involved in the local congregation.

Without any official status. And the actual question is Is commitment slash involvement sufficient. Or should the Christian make Official membership a priority? Jesse, let's start with you.

Amen.

Yes, churches need to make membership a priority. Uh, they need to know who's who in the zoo.

You know what I mean?

You can't just come up into church buildings nowadays. And then, you know, leave. So like, the community of God has a privilege on one side And a responsibility on the other side.

I agree.

And people need to know. They need to know that coming in. It's not just a social club. You know, you don't go to church just to hang out. Like, sure, we have, you know, relationships. And we do hang out at church, by the way.

But at the same time, that's not our primary goal, right? So people like to think of church as a, you know. Where all the people go. Where they're, when they're scared.

You know what I mean?

So after 9 -11, if you remember, 9 -12 Church attendance was like the highest in American history. Because everybody went to church the next day.

You know what I mean?

And then, like, that same Sunday Church services was like back to normal. It was like the normal attendance rate. Because everybody thought that the world was going to end the next day. Because of World War III and whatever.

So it was like, everybody's going to church the next day. So people like to think that church is just a place. You just go when you're scared. Or, you know, a social club.

You know what I mean?

So, yeah, shame on those churches out there. That are just social clubs and hangout spots. For, like, college-age people. And then they, you know, they ferment into, like, hookup spots. And it's like, they don't teach and disciple their people.

You know what I mean?

I don't know where I heard this from. But, like, the pastors are supposed to be feeding the sheep. Not entertaining the goats.

That's virgin.

Right, and that's what happens a lot in church.

You know what I mean?

So people don't really put two and two together. Like, when they think of membership, they think of Costco.

They're like, what?

Like, membership? Like, do I have to pay into this?

Like, you know what I mean?

First of all, if you're paying into your church membership It sounds like a scam.

Yeah, exactly.

You know what I mean?

So you may want to double-check that. So, yeah, so church, if... Because, you know, it depends on your eschatology. You know, your view on the end times. If your view on end times is incredibly positive, obviously.

The world is getting... Every Monday doesn't necessarily need to be a better place If you're, like, a postmill. But at the same time, the world is getting better If you're a postmill.

You know what I mean?

If you're a dispensational, the world's going to hell. Because the world's getting... You have a very pessimistic point of view.

You know what I mean?

So, like, it depends on how you view the world. The relationship with the church in the world. You know, churches are not, you know. A lot of churches are not offering membership. It's just a hangout spot.

So churches do need to, you know, make it a priority. Because the world is becoming more secular. More post-Christian. So, you know, it'd be really nice to have an institution out there. To be a light on the shining hill.

To be like, this is the place. This is the last institution standing when the world collapses.

You know what I mean?

Just like the dark ages when the Roman Empire fell. The only thing was standing was the church. You got the monasteries. Monasteries is the only thing there. Everything else has just collapsed. So, you know what I mean?

And the strong churches will stand and will last.

That's right.

The weak churches won't last. They're the ones that are getting swallowed up by the, you know. By the leftists and all the secular culture right now. So church membership kind of does kind of put a stiff arm.

You know, from those flakes. And those people who are really part of the sheep. Because those who follow Jesus, they know his voice. So you're going to obey the scriptures and follow Jesus. And not like, oh, I don't want to become part of the membership.

Right.

So part of that. So are you saying then part of the issue that are taking place. And part of the challenge of folks grasping the importance of literal. Official status church membership. Is because the church has been lax on this.

I agree with that.

Oh, yeah. Is that what you're saying?

Yes, the church has been lax. You know what I mean? And we can't judge the world based on our circle of influence.

You know what I mean?

That's right.

Like we go to church and we're, you know, we're holding it down. But like that doesn't mean the church down the street. Across the way, across the river, you know, across the ocean is holding it down.

Obviously God knows who are his.

But you know what I mean?

The world is becoming way more secular. But at the same time, Christ is still ruling. So yeah, it all depends on your view in the end time. See how that's going to work out. But yeah, the church is definitely need to make it a priority.

I agree.

So let's go to Dan. So should the Christian, the Christian, the believer in Jesus Christ The one who is born again. Make official membership a priority. In your full screen. That's right.