The Here I Stand Theology Podcast (The Laborers Podcast on Church Membership)

This what y 'all need to be listenin' for Yo, let me explain what I mean It's not too complex It's preaching

God's Word in its proper context As you listen, be discerning What you have to determine What's the point of the passage, the point of the sermon?

If not, this problem must be confronted today Cause he just used the Bible to say what he wanted to say

And even if it's delivered with fire and intelligence That's basically making what God has inspired irrelevant

Instead of applying the Word's realities A lot of passages rely on personality But gifts of communication

Can never be a true replacement For the Holy Spirit's illumination Without exposition, you'll lack major profit

All you'll get is tradition and your pastor's favorite topics And that can be a slippery slope The Word should be giving you hope

It's due to just giving you jokes That won't help you love cry It won't help your obedience We need more expositors, not more comedians

But shepherds who labor in the text Then faithfully connect you to the Savior Then wait for its effects

God gives the increase Holiness, love, unity The Word faithfully preached builds up the whole community

If not, your Sunday meal will not last And you'll have to supplement it with the podcast Don't entertain us, that won't sustain us

Preach the Word, preach the Word, preach the Word This verse right here, it's for the pastors

I just want to encourage y 'all, man Y 'all should be mindful of this devout thesis

All of the Bible is about Jesus The Old Testament, Jesus Christ concealed The New Testament, Jesus Christ revealed

This truth of the Lord Christ boldly conveyed this In Luke 24, on the road to Emmaus The law of the prophets and the teachings of apostles

All of these point back to Jesus in the Gospel So if the work of Christ is what the Word is about Ultimately, that should be what the sermon's about Forget applause, you gotcha

Let the cross rock ya All roads in the Bible lead to Golgotha Whatever the text, faithfulness demands

That we should hear the echoes of nails hit in His hands Don't try to be original, say the old story

And watch your people change as they behold glory The glory of Jesus, we need to see that Preach the

Word All right, all right, welcome to the

Labor's Podcast 1 Timothy 3, verse 14 through 16

This is the Word of the Living God Paul said, I hope to come to you soon

But I am writing these things to you So that if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave

In the household of God Which is the church of the Living God A pillar and buttress of the truth

Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness He was manifested in the flesh

Vindicated by the Spirit Seen by angels Proclaimed among the nations

And believed on in the world Taken up into glory

So guys, how are y 'all doing tonight? Doing good Doing all right Good, so tonight we are going to be talking about the church, right?

And more particularly, church membership What is church membership?

Can we make a biblical case? These are some of the things that we're gonna talk about We're gonna talk about a false view of church membership

A consumeristic view of church membership Different kinds of church membership

What makes church membership different from anything else on the earth Is having or requiring a local church role or membership, even biblical

And what are our roles and responsibilities when it comes to church membership? Not to mention a couple of other questions

That sounds like a whole lot that we're gonna be tackling today But I believe it will be well worth it

It will be beneficial for us It will be beneficial for those who are watching This podcast

But right before we get into this Since I get to host this tonight, the

Here I Stand Theology podcast I'm making a big announcement tonight So tonight, officially, the

Here I Stand Theology podcast Has become a member of the Truth and Love Network So Rob, tell us about the

Truth and Love Network What it's all about, where we're heading Truth and Love Network is just whatever

God wants it to be My desire is for my community And I have been hoping, praying, and seeking

And loving the fellowship that God has brought together so far And we're praying and hoping and seeking that God would bring more men together

That are like -minded in theology But also with a desire to reach their community

And so together, I'm hoping that God will use us To help each other reach our respective communities

And then we want to support each other In what we are doing individually

With our own individual podcast Or preaching, church planning, whatever you guys are doing

We want to support one another as we do that And then once a week, come together

And just fellowship as brothers And reach our community together as one podcast

And yeah, we're off to a great start We've been doing it for a while But we're trying to make it more official

And the Lord is blessing in that Awesome, awesome

So tonight, let's do something Let's kind of add a niche to our conversation tonight

So tonight, as we approach these questions As we approach these issues

As we approach church membership What it is, what it's about Is it biblical, so on and so forth

Let's do this Let's make this like we are sitting at a table with each other

We'll pretend like these five squares on the screen in front of us Are just chairs which we're sitting at And we're staring at each other

And so as we are talking tonight Tyler, if you want to interject

You just say, hold on a minute Dan will say, hang on a minute there, youngster

Jesse will say, alright, I got something to say So let's make this fully conversational

Let's bring this down to Let's make this rubber meets the road talk tonight

So, which one of y 'all would like to start in On can we make a biblical case for church membership

Hint, hint I read some scripture that points to it I'll go

Yeah, go ahead So, let me start off with Ephesians chapter 4

Ephesians is one of my favorite books of the Bible But Ephesians 4 is unique He's writing to the church,

Paul is But he's writing a very encouraging letter He's been hammering a lot of churches pretty hard with some stuff for a while But Ephesians is encouragement

It's very encouraging instruction And he starts off in chapter 4

With, therefore I the prisoner of the Lord Urge you to live worthy of the calling you have received That's salvation, that we've been called into the family of God And we are to live worthy of that calling

With humility and gentleness With patience Bearing with one another In love

Making every effort to keep the unity of the spirit Through the bond of peace There is one body

One Lord One Spirit Just as you were called to one hope Add your calling One Lord One Faith One Baptism One God and Father of all

Who is above all And through all And in all That there is this unity that we have in Christ That we are brought together into one body

We're one person And this thing we call the church Is a gathering of like -minded

Christians We are all brought into this assembly And we abide in Christ together

We bear with one another in love We are united in not just our calling

Not just the fact that we're saved But we're united in mission We're united in worship We're united in who

God is That we're all underneath the banner Of who Christ is And what

He's done That's good guys How can we compliment that?

From what I see The doctrine of church membership Is very similar to the doctrine of the

Trinity You don't have You don't have a specific verse

You have to use your systematic theology Like we talked about last time And draw your different verses together

To help understand that God is triune And so I think the same thing is true When it comes to church membership

There's no one particular verse that says When you gather at one place

Because it's geographically friendly With your neighbors And you're all people whom

God has saved Create a role You don't have that particular verse But what you see is that concept

And that idea taught throughout Scripture The idea of God marking people

Is all throughout Scripture There's a mark that He talks about On the hand and the forehead

For the antichrist And then there's a mark of the lamb For people

And that's not talked about as much As the mark of the beast The mark of the lamb is not talked about as much

Here as individuals We're supposed to mark out Those among you who are false teachers

We're to mark out the widows and the orphans And then you have in Scripture We hear talk about the lamb's book of life

Where God does have a role And He knows whom are

His And then we learn from Christ That He teaches us to pray

Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done On earth as it is in heaven And so if God is marking

And knows whom are His Then I think we can do that here on earth

By knowing whom God has drawn to Himself And then that leads us practically

To the application of it The church discipline The helping of the widows and the orphans

And all that stuff Right, so we'll get into that in more detail too So what you're explaining there

Would you say that it's really pointing Pointing toward the church universal there?

Because of the references you pointed out We're really talking about the body of Christ as a whole

The church, the church universal Right, yeah, and that's how it starts off But that as our example

When we move to our geographically friendly locations It works out practically to help us in those

Other areas that we were talking about Church discipline I mean you can't kick somebody out

If you don't have anybody in So Jesse, let's go to you

The biblical case for church membership Absolutely I would like to think of Back to a letter of Paul In Philippians 1, verses 3 and 5

Paul says something that's very unique Somewhat overlooked And he uses a phrase that I actually

Come to like more and more And this one he says And I quote I thank my

God every time I remember you In all my prayers for all of you

I always pray with joy Because of your partnership in the gospel

From the first day until now I want to focus in that little phrase

Because of your partnership in the gospel From the first day until now

So the last part of that section And he is very thankful of this partnership

Now this partnership of what Paul has in mind Is not a business partnership

Is not a 50 -50 investment type partnership

Like an entrepreneurship He has more in mind like a fellowship More in mind like the word koinia

Which has the connotation of fellowship And koinia here is actually reference

Is translated as partnership in this You know verse here

And a lot of people do relate it to business But I like to take it a little bit more higher than that And because we get to enjoy each other

You know fellowship When we get together every Sunday You know what

I mean And that body, that assembly Which is the word kosia is assembly

When we get together we become this assembly This special body

And you know what I mean And there's many bodies in the world

That actually try to be like the church I call them wannabes And most people think about the

United Nations As a great example of a body Of an assembly of people called out together

That are together for one purpose But yet they can't get along They're not really a great example

Of what the church really is So that koinia when we get together

We actually have that fellowship We get to enjoy our fellowship This is the context where you know

Where you know the context of You know where we share each other's gifts Where we build each other up And that immediately takes me to The world

Because the world is very lonely Very dark, very isolated

Individualistic people out there Culture and all that People don't have relationships They really don't

It's very shallow if they do And all you have to do is take a quick look At statistics and you will see

That these relationships That exist in the world Are shallow, very weak

You know what I mean And is nothing in comparison With a brother in Christ Sometimes your relationship

With your brothers and sisters in Christ Is actually way more deeper And meaningful Than your relationship with Your own family in some context

You know what I mean And you know it takes me to another verse In Ecclesiastes This koinia and action type thing

And in Ecclesiastes chapter 4 Section verses 9 and 10

He says two are better than one Two are better than one If one of them falls down One can help each other up But pity anyone who falls

And has no one to help them up That's the world out there

You know what I mean They're all against one another The homies, the friendships are shallow

They're weak They don't really help each other You know what I mean It's like tick for tack You scratch my back

I'll scratch your back In the Christ community What we're talking about Is a community here

That doesn't really exist At least it's not supposed to be like that You know we walked with the brother

We walked with the widow We walked with the orphan Like extra miles You know what I mean Somebody told me

If you want to be an elder in the church Just go ahead and lay down Like a speed bump right there Because you're going to get around over a ton

You know what I mean And you got to do it to the glory of Christ It's a lot of service

For the elders And it's not to be served Right And the world out there

Is very looking to be served And what's in it for me And that's not the community

That Paul has in mind here That he's thankful of You're not really thankful For people who take advantage of you

You know what I mean You're not really thankful For cheaters and liars and back biters And stuff like that You're thankful for your pastor preaching

You're thankful for your That encouraging word you got on Sunday That fellowship meal

That koinia that we're supposed to get Every Sunday And you can't get that If you're not in church

Yeah and it takes us back to Jesus' words The Son of Man came not to be served

But to serve and to give his life a ransom For many Right You just hit on a bunch of the questions there

So let's move over to Dan Dan The biblical case for church membership You know

I don't know Is that the Bible makes a case For church membership And here's why I say that It's because the Bible doesn't really argue for it

Because it just assumes it It kind of just assumes church membership As you go through it Everything that you come up against Where it deals with a church setting

There's authority structures Which you have to define Who's in, who's out If you're going to discipline someone

Who can be disciplined, who's not Even the Apostle Paul talking about You should judge those who are inside of the church

And not those who are out Because God will judge those who are outside of the church Paul again in Hebrews Because that's who wrote

Hebrews Fight me about it I agree man

We can arm wrestle But we're arm wrestling for the same thing He says in I think it's chapter 10

Not to forsake the assembling over yourselves together How do you know who to go meet with If you don't have a group of folks there

They chose from the godly men Those who would be deacons I mean it just goes on and on Paul was looking for people

Who were going to be worshiping on the Lord's day So he went down there to the place

Where the church would gather It's not argued for in the

New Testament Because it's assumed It was just If God's going to call people to himself

Then those people who are gathered around the gospel Are going to be his people And those people are just to act a certain way

They're held to a certain standard Or they are brought under discipline Yeah I agree

I agree And Jesse Jesse I thought you was reading my mind When you went to Philippians there

Because I mean If you go right to the very first verse of Philippians there

Right So what does Paul say Let me get there Sorry I'm not bringing this all up on the computer tonight

I'm doing it manually So Paul and Timothy Servants of Christ Jesus To all the saints in Christ Jesus Who are at Philippi With the overseers and the deacons

There we have the structure Of the local church In two verses right there

The saints The deacons And the elders Or the overseers

We have it all right there The Belgic Confession Talks about the church

Marks of the church Article 28 of the Belgic Confession states We believe

Since this holy congregation Is an assembly of those who are saved And out of it there is no salvation

That no person of whatsoever state or condition He may be Ought to withdraw himself to live in a separate state from it

But that all men are in duty bound To join and unite themselves with it Maintaining the unity of the church

Submitting themselves to the doctrine And discipline thereof Bowing their necks

Under the yoke of Jesus Christ And as mutual members of the same body Serving to the edification of the brethren

According to the talents that God has given them That's succinct right there

That's a stick of dynamite That will blow a mailbox up right there We're all done

Thank you for joining us What were you reading the

Belgic Confession out of? My Bible The Reformation Study Bible It's got all the creeds and confessions

In the back of it Yeah, it's handy It's handy to have all of them there together

So Rob Let's go back to you here now Let's talk about different types of church memberships

You started us on this path here Let's go ahead and continue What are by different types

Different kinds of church memberships So we have universal The universal church The church body as a whole

Referred to as Catholic And we have the local church Talk to us a little bit about that Yeah I mean this is a discussion that I would like to have with you guys sometime

Just to pick your brain Because we Some people talk about us carrying over that word church

From a different place Us Protestants May not use that word

But we But it's the most familiar word to us So we continue to use it But I think we're more

Familiar with this Assembly or Could use the word assembly but I think what

I was talking about there is The different The different areas of our

Our membership I mean when we're born again When God saves us initially He Brings us into his

Assembly His kingdom His church That's the universal or capital

C Catholic or lowercase C Catholic church And And so That's where we start

And then the verse that Dan quoted to us You know It's going to be like our

Well, I guess it would have to be our For if we're if we grew up outside the church

In many cases And things may be changing Because You know in the

Last Several decades Most people were Or would maybe claim to be churchgoers

People took their families to church and And many people were saved in church But things may be moving in a different direction

So We used to talk about the first act of obedience Is baptism But now if you're outside the church

Or got saved outside the church Didn't grow up in the church Maybe your first act of obedience

Is going to that Hebrews verse that Dan was talking about And find that local assembly

Where you can become Baptized as a believer For the first time

And And then you join that That local assembly

And that's where you can You yourself can be accountable To brothers and sisters

You can keep others accountable You can be fed You can feed others

And you can You know just like the characteristics We represent

God And we We reflect him in that Where you know

God shares his Characteristics among the Godhead The Father, the

Son, and the Holy Spirit Where they're able to show love towards one another They're able to communicate with one another

And so the same thing is true When we reflect him amongst One another in that local assembly

We're able to you know love one another Serve one another Discipline one another

And so on and so forth So That's kind of what I mean in Helping us understand and making those distinctions

Between the universal church Versus the local assembly Yeah and so I can see a

Credo versus pedo Debate brewing between you and Dan right now I don't know Tyler's up there

Or were you sprinkling? I was sprinkling yeah I thought you were sprinkling

Alright so Matt by the way we didn't get to We brought it up there Matt Breeding's on with us he said hi

There's another Facebook user on but that's all that comes up Facebook user we don't know who you are

Tell us who you are in the comments And we'll give you a shout out Alright so Universal Invisible church

Local visible I know those sometimes are taken Kind of you know

They ought to be taken at face value What they're talking about So Jesse or let's go to Let's actually go to Tyler Jesse you had mentioned this

But let's see what Tyler has to say about this What makes church membership Different from anything on earth

Abraham Kuyper A philosopher from about a Hundred years ago So you know where I'm going

He once wrote in a fantastic Book that is very hard to read That the church is both

An institution and an Organism That it's an institution and an organism

That it's an institution And that it's something organized It's something established and very defined

That there is a hierarchy There is a certain order to it But in the same token

It's an organism it's something living It is flowing It flourishes it grows

It learns and things like this There's not a Parallel for that in The secular world

While we have the state which The bible is very clear is instituted By God The state is not an organism

In the way that the church is And it's certainly not purchased by the blood of Christ I can't find anywhere in Scripture where it says that Christ died

For the propitiation of the republican party But I do find About how we are the ransom

Saints of God and that he has Built us into a spiritual house We can

There are a lot of great descriptions like that Because We have this beautiful temple in the old testament

We have many beautiful temples And This is where they gathered to worship It was organized it was an institution

And it was In some ways it actually Pointed to What God was going to build spiritually

With his church And he was going to purchase it with his blood And so we've been built up In a spiritual house but it's not just This stony cold building

It is something living It flows And it grows going back to Ephesians chapter 4

And it says he himself gave some to be Apostles, some prophets, some evangelists

Some pastors and teachers To do what? To equip the saints for the work of ministry

To build up the body of Christ Until we all reach unity In the faith and in the knowledge of God's son

Growing into maturity Stature Measured by Christ's fullness

Then we will no longer be little children Meaning we're growing And we will not be

Tossed by the waves and blown around By every wind of teaching By human cunning with cleverness

And techniques or deceit But speaking the truth in love Let us grow in every way

Into him who is the head, meaning Christ From him The whole body fitted and knit together

By every supporting ligament Promotes the growth of the body For building up itself in love

By the proper working Of each individual part And so it is

Organized in that we have Leaders, we have We have roles, we have expectations

But it's an organism In the sense that it grows It matures, it guides itself

It learns, it adapts Not while straying from its original purpose But it is fluid

It grows, it adapts I'm saying that a lot, but the point is The state does not grow beyond what it was

Originally designed to do And when it does, it ceases to be God's design for the state

Wait a minute Let's let Dan interject here Dan's bobbing on something

Right there, go ahead Dan Our government has definitely grown beyond what it was Originally intended to do Our government's a blob

Which is Have you ever seen the 1950 movies

The Blob, it's like this Good borrowing and everything The Stay Puft Marshmallow Man Ghostbusters I think

I agree with What you're saying though It's the only thing that continues to grow bigger Than what it was designed to And still be good and functional

Yes It seems that we're growing more in a Dysfunctional sort of way

We'll go with that Alright, so let's pick up Let's keep this moving

I've got another question This, we want to This was asked that we address it

On the podcast tonight So we are So Tyler gave us a great

Scriptural Biblical explanation Of the purpose of the local church

The function of the local church The function of the Offices within the local church

So here's a question I would like to hear Some official thoughts

That's not a question right there but still It's a statement being posed as a question Just go with it

I'd like to hear some thoughts On official membership Official church membership

I .e. being voted in Placed on the church roll Signing papers

Versus just being committed to And involved in the local congregation Without any

Official status And the actual question is Is commitment slash

Involvement sufficient Or should the Christian make Quote unquote official

Membership a priority Jesse let's start with you Amen Yes Churches need to make membership

A priority They need to know who's who In the zoo

You can't just come up Into church buildings nowadays And then leave

So like The community Of God has a

Privilege on one side And a responsibility on the other Side I agree

And people need to know They need to know that Coming in It's not just a social club

You don't go to church just to hang out Sure we have Relationships We do hang out at church by the way

But at the same time That's not our primary goal So People like to think of church

As a You know Where all the people go When they're scared

You know what I mean So after 9 -11 if you remember 9 -12

Church Attendance was like the highest In American history Because everybody went to church the next day

You know what I mean And then like that same Sunday Church services was like Back to normal It was like the normal Attendance rate

So because everybody thought that the world Was going to end the next day So it was like Everybody's going to church the next day

So people like to think that church is just a place You just go when you're scared Or you know a social club

You know what I mean Shame on those churches out there That are just social clubs

And hangout spots For like college age people And then They ferment into like hookup spots

And it's like They don't teach And disciple their people

You know what I mean I don't know where I heard this from But the pastors are supposed to be feeding the sheep Not entertaining the goats

Right And that's what happens a lot in church

You know what I mean So people don't really put two and two together Like when they think of membership They think of Costco They're like what?

Do I have to pay into this? You know what I mean First of all if you're paying into your church membership

It sounds like a scam Exactly So you may want to double check that So yeah

Church Because you know It depends on your eschatology Your view on the end times

If your view on the end times is incredibly positive Obviously The world is getting

Every Monday doesn't necessarily need to be a better place If you're like a post male But at the same time

The world is getting better if you're a post male If you're dispensational The world is going to hell

You have a very pessimistic point of view You know what I mean So like It depends on how you view the world

The relationship with the church in the world You know churches are not You know a lot of churches are not

Offering membership It's just a hangout spot So churches do need to make it a priority

Because the world is becoming more secular More post Christian So you know

It'd be really nice to have an institution Out there, the church To be a light on the shiny hill

To be like this is the place This is the last institution Standing when the world collapses

You know what I mean Just like the dark ages When the Roman Empire fell The only thing was standing was the church

You got the monasteries Monasteries is the only thing there Everything else is just collapse You know what

I mean The strong churches will stand And will last The weak churches won't last

They're the ones that are getting swallowed up By the By the leftists

And all the secular culture right now So church membership kind of does Put a stiff arm

You know from Those flakes and those People who are really part of the sheep

Those who follow Jesus they know his voice So you're going to obey the scriptures

And follow Jesus and not Become part of the membership Right so part of this

So are you saying then Part of the Issue that are taking place

And part of the challenge of folks Grasping the importance of Literal Official Status church membership

Is because the church Has been lax on this I agree with that Yes the church has been lax

You know what I mean and we can't judge The world based on our circle of influence You know what I mean

We go to church We're holding it down But like that doesn't mean

The church down the street Across the way across the river You know across the ocean

Is holding it down Obviously God knows who are his But you know what

I mean The world is becoming way more secular But at the same time Christ is still ruling So yeah it all depends on your view

In the end time see how that's going to work out But yeah the churches Definitely need to make it a priority

I agree so let's go To Dan So should the

Christian The Christian The believer in Jesus Christ The one who is born again

Make official membership A priority End your full screen

That's right Yeah absolutely They should make it a priority Because one of the issues

I think people have Wrapping their heads around the idea of church membership They don't think of it as the same thing

As kingdom citizenship Which really We should think

More In those terms than we do In terms of like club membership Or membership with some other

Organization that we're familiar with On earth Amen So if we think of it as a kingdom citizenship

Like if you go into a new Kingdom that you want to be a part of A new country that you're trying to be

A citizen of Yeah he's a handsome fella You're going to You're going to need to seek out

You know get your You want that citizenship You want to pass the test You want to get your green card so to speak

And what that does Is it gives you Or it entitles you to all the rights

And privileges of the people In that citizenry So when we think of those

Who are a part of the kingdom of God We When you think of church membership

And those who are a part of the kingdom of God What they have then access to Is to the teaching

Of the church Sacraments to Discipline from godly

Leaders who've been vetted and had their hands Laid on by people who have gone Hopefully but not always all the way back

To the apostles It's It's the way that God Has set things up It's one of those things where If you seek out church membership you're seeking

A Representation of kingdom citizenship Here on earth because you're

Making a claim that I'm living as one Who has hope in the gospel of Jesus Christ that one day

When everything is said and done I will Be a part of that kingdom and that Kingdom will be here on earth

Like Jesse was saying the shiny city On a hill So Rob let's jump up to you

You're sitting up there I can tell you've Got some deep thoughts happening So let's Pick your brain now on this

Let's talk a little bit further So we talk about the Importance of church membership

And I would say By a Consensus head nod

And amen whatever the case may Be is pastor I like to hear Amens if it's the truth

Do we have a consensus on the fact That official church Membership should be a priority in the

Life of a Christian amen I would say yes Yes alright so Rob on that note

What are the Benefits of Official church membership

I think a lot of us have touched On many of them already

You're going to receive love You're going to be able to give love There's That idea of taking care of one another

Accountability Being able to Discipleship And disciple others to be disciplined

And discipline others all For the purpose of reconciliation And glorifying

God Community fellowship

First and foremost Being obedient to Christ submitting To him And learning about him

Knowing him more loving him more Through all this So That and Many other reasons

While it's beneficial to Join a fellowship and be Officially a member on the rolls

At a local church As you guys were talking I was looking at some other verses

Just to quickly throw them in there Paul Paul makes

Distinctions and he makes lists If you look at Galatians chapter 6 Verse 10 he says therefore as we have

Opportunity let us do good to all People especially And there's the distinction especially

To those of the household of faith So there Paul is making a distinction Between yeah we're supposed to Do good to all men

But especially those within the household Of faith so how do we know who's in the Household of faith

It's those who are on the rolls And I think I think we have to do that Practically Because we're not

God You know God is able to judge the heart See the heart and make those distinctions

And make those Disciplines Because he knows

And he has the ability But for us Putting it on paper

A class Or an interview Making sure

That somebody is who is joining Your fellowship is truly Who they say they are

Those type of things Just because of our limitations We're not God And it helps us to determine those things

But then that one last verse That I wanted to mention was Galatians 6 talks about The distinction that Paul makes

And then he makes a list In 1 Timothy chapter 4 when he's talking about Taking care of the widows

Verse 9 A widow is to put on a list Only and then he gives the qualifications Of That she has to meet before she's put on a list

To be taken care of Yeah and there's a benefit For the widow That she's taken care of Yeah the local church

The local church Should Be The body

Should be the group That Particularly like you just read there

Takes care of its own I think One of the things

That I think And I don't know maybe this is not

The exact right term That I'm going to use here But one of the overblown

Ideas From within church membership Is that it is one particular

Church or one particular Association of churches responsibility To take care for the needs of the world

When the scriptures Teach us clearly like you just read That it is the

Responsibility of the local body To care for its own The church Like Reformation Baptist Church Can't take care of the whole world

We can take We can particularly zoom in And focus on those within The congregation that have needs

And we can better help Them with a concentrated Focus of care

Than we can sprinkling A little bit of care throughout the world Yeah a couple weeks ago

My pastor said there are no Poor in the church Because we take care of our own

Yeah And we're failing at our intended purpose And we're doing

What the world is supposed to do when they see us So the modern church Looks at the world and they say

We want to be that so we can attract More members but when in reality We're supposed to be

Lifting up and taking care of our Widows and our orphans and our own So that when the world looks in at us

They say I want that And we've got a good flock Yeah and that goes to That goes to your question

Rob Or your statement you said I think we should touch on The false way that so many

View church membership as Consumers Yeah exactly Rather than as believers

So Tyler We've not got to you in a minute

Let's ask this question to you So how is church Membership viewed consumeristically

Or basically Let me put it another way I'll break it down like this Let me say this

How is church membership viewed As though that you're going

To jumbo buffet For lunch and you've got about a thousand Different things that you like That are set before you

But you only want a few How is that happening with folks in the world Today There's quite a few avenues

Where we see that Taking shape some of it depends On certain persuasions

For example We talked a while back About the songs we sing And about often we focus on A particular style

Or a particular sound And then there are some elements like that That we go to this church

Because we like music Or we like the accent the guy Preaches in or things like that And so there's that pick and choose

Kind of notion there that it's Who's closer to my preference As opposed to who's closer

To the bible And then moving outwards a little bit With consumerism to Like you said about Looking at it not as believers but as Consumers or as Customers that we

Might enter a church looking Solely to be served and that's the Main focus is where Will I be served

Which is something I'm sure we're all guilty of at some point That's a selfish

Mindset. Should the church Serve? Absolutely But that shouldn't be our prime directive

Is to be served Right And so there's

Different layers to how we look At the church as if we're Customers And the church is like a

Grocery store that we come in We get the service I put my money In the basket and I go on my merry

Little way I pay this Amount to the tithe

Every week so I should have This say in what songs We sing or things like that And we get

Into that mindset as well that I own the church That I can direct the church

Because I'm an investor I'm a customer I'm a consumer There are different aspects there

Right And so there is a Growth issue that combats

That going back To this idea of growth that we are Sanctified by coming

Under the word of God by being surrounded By the people of God And that is something that is rooted out through Our sanctification

Philippians chapter 2 tells us To work out our salvation with Fear and with trembling

For it is God that works in you Amen And so as we approach the church

We are approaching we have to approach the church As people that are Working out the deeper points of their

Salvation with fear and trembling That is that we we know who God is we know that God needs to be

Taken seriously and that We are wretched sinners in need Of a great savior And that we are willing to Dive deep into who

God Is what he's done and how We become benefactors of that In theological

Terms we call that the person and work Of Christ who he is What he did and how we

Become recipients of that And I think that undergirds everything The church is

Who Christ is what he did and how we Become a part of that And that also plays into our

Sanctification as well as The Holy Spirit but that is a whole other conversation That when we come

Under the lordship of God When the fact that Christ is King is realized in our lives

There is there is Change there is growth there is Pruning as we are being conformed

To the image of Christ In every thought word Indeed including

How we operate in the church Amen Amen let's move to We got two more questions two more

Issues we'll try to confront here So Rob This question here

Talk to us about this and we're going to jump back over to Jesse What does it mean that the back door

Should be easier to get out of Than the front What did you mean by that So that comes up a lot when you

When you actually Confront study and Try to redevelop the biblical

Doctrine of church discipline In your church again and so You Just as a pastor

Wants to protect the pulpit When he has to be absent And he wants He needs someone to fill in he wants somebody in there

That he can trust that's going to preach the word That's going to feed his flock That's going to exposit scripture

And so the same thing is true For the church We're supposed to Protect our flock

And that's part of the Responsibility of the pastor And the church itself Is protecting its flock

And so There's the concept and the idea of Unregenerate church membership

Right There's Fearfully a lot of people

That we put on our roles That are unregenerate And so You look at the topic

Of easy believism Just trying to get As many people as you can down the aisle

Get them baptized All the roles Just so you can Escalate your numbers

And look good in your associations Or whatever And so we make it so easy

But we Give people a false sense of hope And enable them to continue to live

Their lives in the world As long as they checked a few boxes And that causes trouble

Within the church Because people aren't thinking The Holy Spirit's not working People aren't thinking biblically

They're not thinking in terms of what Christ What God would have us do here in the church But as Tyler was pointing out

It's how can it best serve me How can it best serve my family What do

I want in the church And so It should be harder

To get in the front door Than it Is the back I get you

I hear you now We want to protect our flock And it's also not just to protect our flock

But also to protect Those who are wanting in To give them

A better assurance of their faith And help them understand their Relationship with God and not give them a false sense of hope

And then The back door Is that subject

Of church discipline Which we'll get to in another podcast Church discipline

It's not familiar To folks anymore But when we talk about church discipline The first thing that people think about Is we don't want to Throw people out of the church

And cast stones and judge people And that's not all That's like the very last

Resort that you rarely Come to is kicking somebody Out of the church

It's going to Some person One on one And the whole process

Is the goal is Reconciliation With God and with the church But it

Should be easier to Go through that process As a church

Than Actually getting in I would

Go even I would go even further and just Not even talk about Not even think about a back door

Because that's the whole point of church membership Is being there Being committed

Being caring Being disciplined And staying for the long run

Church membership Is viewed as a temporary thing Oh I'll just go here

So Jesse I noticed in messenger earlier You're in Colorado right?

I am The great states Middle earth So The rest of these guys were all

East coast And Dan You're from Kentucky originally right?

North Carolina North Carolina So you're raised in the country Tyler's raised in the country

Rob's raised in the country I don't know if you was raised in the country or not Jesse But the thing about church membership

In the south In the bible belt Is basically

You go to a church And then When something happens that you don't like You don't

Get mad but you act spiritual And you say this I feel like the lord's telling me

It's time to move on So That is

Spiritualizing That is Spiritualizing and Demonstrating and evidencing

Spiritual immaturity Because the spiritually mature Christian Looks at church

I Probably get hate mail for this But I'm going to say it I think that a

Christian needs to look at church Membership the same way we look At marriage For the long haul

Because When we join A local body We are joining

That local body To care for, to love To spend, to laugh with To cry with, to rejoice with To get mad at even

Because that's the reality of it We're going to get mad Who are the people we get mad at the most in this world?

Probably if you're like me It's your family members And your family members You got to be able to smack in the back of the head

Now I'm not saying this as a pastor I'm just saying this brother to brother You got to be with You got to be able to smack them in the back of the head

And say you are acting Acting like an idiot Why don't you straighten up This is what the

Bible says Let's go to God in prayer together Let's work through this Let's go the extra mile together here

And let's work through this And what happens when that takes place Is that Our bond is strengthened

Within the body Our love for one another is strengthened Because guess what We realize that when we look at our brothers and sisters

In Christ That they ain't no different than we are That they fall

And that they fail But we have the same Savior And we have the same advocate that we go to We have the same

Lord that we cry And confess our sins to And He is faithful And just to forgive us our sins

And to cleanse us from all Unrighteousness Church membership should be centered

Around Christ And not around ourselves When that's the case The body itself is blessed

And the Individual Christian is blessed Wait a second, Becky's saying something here

Let me bring this up If my husband hits me in the back of the head I'm coming for you,

Claude No, no, no Here's the thing It's a shame that we gotta make a disclaimer

On this As a pastor myself I'm not saying this is how we treat church members I am saying

Brother to brother Sister to sister In Christ We need to have a relationship

Such and so That we can be completely honest with one another

And so If Dan And I'll say this, Becky If Dan does that The rest of these guys here

We're gonna pull our money We'll get a plane ticket And we'll come and whoop Dan if he does that Cause that is not a husband

Loving his wife like Christ loves the church I think all four of us Can take him, guys

No, no I might be in New York But I believe in the second amendment So Let's Move to a close here

Jesse, let's close with you here Why is it Would you say it's important To keep a

To clean and maintain An updated church Membership role

Well, because you wanna know Who's actually going to church You know what

I mean, cause you don't wanna be having Like a family member Or like a person

You know, on your roles Who hasn't been there for years You know what

I mean If that's the case I would question Whoever's updating the spreadsheets

They probably need to Choose a better person For that job You're fired

You know what I mean I don't know, maybe when somebody leaves

Or transitions Or a church membership transfer Maybe after Maybe give them a year, maybe less

Six months, a year You know what I mean It's up to every session

Or church leadership to decide On the maximum Or minimum But you definitely wanna keep tabs on Updating the spreadsheet

Imagine if you never updated The address on your license For the past 10 years

The past 15 years You know what I mean, you'd be like Wow, I still have that address

You know what I mean It's just like Sooner or later it's gonna come bite you in the butt

You're like, come on, update your address On your license, man, come on Or imagine if you don't update your tags

On your car, you know what I mean You're gonna get pulled over once in a while It's gonna be embarrassing, you're gonna be like Oh, Rob still comes to this church

You know, they're like, who? Rob? They're like Dude, he left back in 72

Yeah You're like Oh You know what

I mean So I think it's important to keep You know, to If you read one of the books called

Nine Marks of a Healthy Church One of the chapters in there says It's about growth And obviously to grow you need to prune

You know, discipleship And you know Discipline is involved in growth

You know what I mean And you need to prune So like, when you remove church You know, church members

You know, people need Churches need to edit all that stuff So yeah, when you got two new couples

They got maybe, you know Somebody changed their last name or somebody became a widow So yeah, it's incredibly important You know what

I mean I think if a pastor says I don't know anybody I only know faces and I don't know anybody

In here, in this room, you know what I mean And like And vice versa If a church member says,

I don't even know You know, my pastor I don't even know, is he married? You know what

I mean Like, does he even live here? You know what I mean If the elder and deacon are looking at each other

You're an elder Uh oh I think he may have hit a button

That was not church discipline We can't hear you

We can't hear you Can you hear me?

Yeah, now we can Alright, sorry about that If an elder and a deacon are looking at each other

And they don't know each other I'd say that's a bad sign Communication is key as well

Cause, you know Like a member If a member wants to leave the church There's a process

And there's a right way and a wrong way To leave a church, right So like, if a church member If a church member is leaving

Vanishing You know what I mean I think the elders have the responsibility somehow To keep tabs, like call them, email them

Drop by, buy a visit And going back to the idea you were mentioning You know, you're in it for the long haul

I think I think you could definitely find that In church history Cause when you go back to the early days of the colonials

Especially in England Ireland and stuff like that You go to these old churches

And what do you see? Yeah You see cemeteries You see cemeteries behind churches, old churches

Now in the modern day it's kind of creepy But, you know what I mean You're like, whoa You don't want to be there after 10 o 'clock

But in the old days They had church buildings Had like their own water well

You know what I mean, they had their own cemeteries They were self -sufficient They were like islands They had everything, their own gardens

There's something to that Being self -reliant type community That I think we kind of lost

During the, I don't know Industrial revolution Or after World War II Or something like that That we kind of, we may need back

In the future probably You know what I mean And that probably does have to come down From legislation

Because that comes down to building code Like you can't just build a building And have a cemetery, you know what

I mean And it's like, well back in the day You know what I mean, a lot of cemeteries Are built right next to churches

So, you know I'd like somebody who would change that And we could fix that You know what

I mean I agree, and in closing I would add this one last thing

And then Rob If you wouldn't care to Close us out with the gospel here in a minute But the importance of maintaining church

Membership role like what you just said Jesse, is very very important And I would go

A step further and say It's very important So that as the church

Is designed and set up to be Under a plurality of elders With deacons serving

So that the Elders can love And pastor and care

For the folks that are there Goes back to that concentrated care We can't care

For the church member that's on the role That ain't been there in 20 years There's I mean there's no way to keep up with that But when you know who's there

Regularly, then you can Set aside Time, effort

Energy, resources To actually focus On those members

So that they get the best care possible Whether it's Encouragement, whether it's discipline

Whether it's food Physical needs, right Food, electricity Whatever the case may be

So that we actually do What Christ commanded us to do And that is care for one another

Guys, this is a big topic Rob had laid us out Big time on this

Rob, I hope I did you justice On this. Rob's usually The one leading here

He got kind of a reprieve Tonight, just to sit and be put on The spot and answer questions

But thankful again Rob, you gave us this opportunity To host tonight

Any of you guys got any Closing comments? One minute closing comment Let's start with Tyler Tyler, start your timer

One minute closing comments On the importance of church membership I would say

Invest in the body of Christ I would say As we've been talking about all night

Be rooted In this community Even with the hard stuff Even when it gets complicated and messy

That we invest in people That this is important This is worth the work

Amen Rob, why is church membership Important? Local church membership I would just echo that I know we've talked a lot about having names on roles

But those names on roles We have responsibility From Scripture To be involved

And so I would echo what Tyler was saying That if you join a church Become a church member

Dig into Scripture and obey Christ Amen Dan, why is church

Local church membership important? Local church membership Is important because God has given us

A group of people to work With in order to Push each other closer

To Christ To remind each other of the gospel To uplift each other And to go out and build something

In the community Which is the kingdom of God Now obviously God does the actual Heavy lifting

But He's called us to go out there And to disciple the nations And to baptize people and command them

To do everything that God has told us to do It gives meaning and purpose to your life

It's something to do It's what God has called you to do If He called you to do it, it's not going to disappoint

Amen And Jesse Switching gears Question, who's the head of the church?

Christ, Christ is the head of the church That's right Not the Pope That's right

Many members One body What's the importance of the local church?

Jesse I really have That person who's on the fence

I have him in mind Because there's many people out there That are on the fence about Joining the church

And I want to direct this last second To them Listen, you know

The secular world is going to give you Despair That's the result of secularism

It gives you despair The church, the gospel Because of the gospel

Is going to give you hope It's going to give you hope You know what

I mean And you cannot find that hope Outside of the church And that's because the church has the gospel

Amen And that's part of God's plan Is to use the church

To spread the gospel, spread the hope So if you're thinking That you can find hope in the world

You know what I mean, you cannot You can only find despair Deep, dark despair

And if you're looking for hope, you're not going to find it There's no hope in the world You know what I mean, there's no salvation

Outside of Jesus You cannot have God as your father Without having the church as your mother

I think somebody said Amen Guys, thank you,

Rob Lead us out Tell us about the hope, the head Yeah, we have no

Greater desire, any of us Than people, others Coming to know Jesus Christ As their

Lord and Savior God saving them And so Just as Ray Comfort said

We don't know that we need a cure Until we know that we have a problem And so we

Follow scripture and let the law Lead us to Christ, and how do we do that? We look at God's law

Which reflects His character And who He is and His requirements Of perfection

And we see that we have broken All of His commandments, if you break it down We've broken every single one of them

But just to reassure you We have all lied, we have all stolen No matter its value

We've all looked with lust We've all dishonored Our parents

We've all blasphemed in some way And the list goes on and on and on We have broken God's law, and James 2

Verse 10 says if we've kept the whole law And even stolen at one point We're guilty of it all

So we need a Savior We need rescuing, we need someone Outside of us to come in And deliver us and rescue us

Because we can't do it ourselves We are, as Jesse said We are in deep, dark despair

Being in the world And God in His Mercy and His kindness to glorify

Himself and to love us Sent forth His one and only Son That everyone believing in Him Might not

Perish but have everlasting life Scripture calls us to repent of our sin Turn from our sin

And put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ And there's No greater No greater gift to us

To hear that you have Repented of your sins, put your faith and trust In Jesus Christ, and that's how

God Brings most glory to Himself Is saving Wretches, saving

His own Enemies, and we would encourage you And exhort you to repent of your sins And put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ Tonight Amen, amen, so guys hang out here