WWUTT 1040 Q&A Meaning of Life, Disrespectful Pastors, and Modern Montanists?

What is the meaning of life? What do you do if another pastor takes a member of your congregation away?

And are today's popular women teachers modern -day Montanists? The answers to these questions and others, when we understand the text.

This is When We Understand the Text, a daily study in the Word of Christ, that we may be sanctified completely and kept blameless at the coming of our

Lord. Visit our website at www .utt .com. Here once again is

Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Okay, deep probing question for you now. Okay.

I'm not going to present it to you. I'm just going to go straight to the email. All right. So it's the deep.

It's a surprise. The deepest question. Be prepared. And it's from Jonathan in Arizona. Okay. He says,

Dear Gabe and Becky, I wanted to come up with a fantastic question. All right. Something unique yet simple, not too deep or complex.

Okay. Something I was sure would catch your attention. All right. And I would get to hear it read on your podcast.

Awesome. I'm sorry, broadcast. Good catch. I thought and thought and thought some more, and I think

I've come up with the right question. All right. Ready? Yes. Here it is. What is the meaning of life?

I look forward to hearing my original question on the air. Thank you for your ministry and for all that you have done through when we understand the text,

Jonathan in Arizona. That's a great question. That's awesome. I actually had this email as part of the questions that we were going to read last week.

Oh, yeah. But we just didn't get to it. Yeah. We ran out of time. And it was right before I was about to do the what video on this very question.

What is the meaning of life? Aww. So here is the answer to Jonathan's question in the latest video that was put on our

YouTube channel. What is the meaning of life?

That is the question, right? It's the question at the heart of all philosophical and existential thought, and the answer means everything.

Most of the ancient philosophers believed happiness was the meaning of life, and we acquire happiness through knowledge.

The more a person knows, the happier they will be. So Indian teacher Buddha came up with his Four Noble Truths and the

Eightfold Path to Happiness. Chinese philosopher Confucius taught that the happiest people are the well -educated.

Greek thinker Plato believed we must attain to the highest form of knowledge. Socrates believed in asking questions, which leads to knowledge, which leads to happiness.

Epicurus believed in finding happiness in simple things, like philosophy. Zeno, the founder of Stoicism, believed the meaning of life was freedom from suffering, which can be accomplished with the right kind of thinking.

In all their ponderings, none of these wise guys held a candle to the brilliance of King Solomon. You know what he said?

All things are full of weariness. There is nothing new under the sun. And he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.

Ouch. So happiness is not the meaning of life, and knowledge won't get you there. So what is the meaning of life?

Solomon said this, Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.

There is a king even greater and wiser than Solomon, the Lord Jesus Christ. His words lead to everlasting life and joy forevermore.

Jesus is the answer, when we understand the text. There's the meaning of life.

There you go. All right. And let's broaden that answer now a little bit more. Go for it.

Okay. So in James 4, 13 through 15, we read the following. Come now, you who say, today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit.

Yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.

Instead, you ought to say, if the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.

Very true. So James even philosophizes there, as well as being theological, that it's if the

Lord wills, we will have or we will have not, whether that is understanding or whether that is mystery.

That was my water bottle that popped over here. I was like, what on earth? My water bottle was settling, so it kind of, it popped out, the plastic popped.

So at some point in your life, you've probably found yourself asking, what is the meaning of life? Have you ever asked this question before?

Oh, yeah. Like when in your life would have been this pondering of what's the meaning of all of this?

Definitely in my 20s. Well, no, teens probably is when it started. And then in my 20s, and then,

I don't know, life just got crazy. Then stuff just happens you got to focus on.

You don't got time to be asking. And then I got saved. Well, yeah, there you go. And then you found the meaning of life. I don't know that I ever really went through a philosophical time when

I'm wondering, what's the meaning of all of this? Yep. I mean, there were certainly times in my life when

I couldn't necessarily say that I was following Christ or my focus definitely wasn't there.

But that I was kind of sitting around wondering what's the meaning or what's the purpose of all of this? I don't know that I ever really hit that.

Yeah. Be happy. I mean, I was pretty miserable at that point in time.

Don't worry, be happy. You know the song, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry.

Don't worry. I'll be happy. Do do do do do do. Do do do do do.

And just like that, we started having to pay copyright on the podcast. Only if we get paid, though, right?

Oh, that's right. We're a nonprofit. There we go. We don't have to pay anything. So just don't tip us.

Right, so yeah, all of all of philosophy kind of surrounds is surrounding that question

What is the meaning of life? Hmm. So everybody's been pondering for all these years Why who am

I and why am I here, you know, and we'll say that jokingly, but that's kind of the the bedrock of the the search for significance, you know, and there was a

Carl Sagan who was the well people call him an atheist I think there's dispute as to whether or not he was an atheist but anyway the the atheist astronomer who said that we look into the heavens to try to find

Extraterrestrial life because when they find who they are then we find out who we are Okay, and Frank Peretti responded to that really funny

He said I you know It's really gonna make me laugh if one of these days we actually do find some sort of Extraterrestrial signal traveling through space and we grab it and we translate it and what we translate

The alien saying is when we find out who they are. We will find out who we are They're asking the same question.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. I'm like, they're probably asking the same thing We are now you've been teaching the kids as you've been going through like the timeline the

CC timeline Uh -huh. Yeah, I've been teaching the kids about conversation classical conversations for those who don't know.

Yes You've talked to them about these philosophers And about the times when they lived or the order in which kind of all these historical events take place, right?

We're still in the foundations, which is for those of you who don't or who aren't

Savvy with this terminology. It's it's like the elementary so in Classical learning they they start with vocabulary and very basic knowledge and then they expound on that as they get older Mm -hmm

So we we have been but it's been very basic But I know that I've heard the kids go through like Confucius and and Buddha like they mention that Confucius and Buddha Okay, so as we were going through that in the video, we were you kind of thinking?

You know, hey, we've talked about these things. Yeah, okay a couple So these philosophers most of the ancient philosophers hail from like India China and Greece And they believed that happiness was the meaning of life, right

So that was what you were saying about like when you were kind of going through the whole search for significance thing

You were searching for happiness. Is that what you were looking for? Yeah, like what's gonna make me happy right and it wasn't being cooped up at home being grounded

It was you know, my friends not liking me at that day or you know

Any of this drama that was going on it was it was like this is not making me happy You know get me out of here.

I need something to make me happy. I need a runaway and then you you were rebellious Oh, yeah.

Yeah, you look at the culture today and how rebellious it is, especially, you know It's what we talked about them being the millennial generation right the youngers.

You don't really see a lot of happiness in that group No, they're all grumpy. Very very angry.

I was angry That's right. You think you're going for happiness But what you come up with is an angry bitter person because you're expect you have high

Expectations if I do this one thing then it's gonna make me happy and then that doesn't make you happy So then you're like, well that must not have been it and and it just total letdown

So then you go after something else this this is gonna make me happy, right, you know, it's it's a constant

And you just don't know you think it's going to but you don't know that it

You're not a guarantee right that you don't know that ultimately this is gonna come out to be unfulfilling, right?

And you're gonna have to look for something and then it gets total drop -down. So it's kind of like you get highs and you get lows just emotionally and it's

Yeah, and you don't like being at the lows. So you you keep looking for the higher and the higher and the higher Then fall into despair.

Did you ever really kind of despair? Yeah, like I'm not finding any significance or purpose in anything

Yeah, it was it was pretty low. I was I mean, I I don't know

I look back and I'm like how dumb I was you know, like You were really depressed over high school stuff.

Like it's high school Who you know, you're just people say that you're gonna outgrow it.

You are trust me and it's okay It's okay to be sad. It's okay to be angry

But you'll get over it. Yeah, I Had a friend who had graduated with like two master's degrees in psychology

Yeah, and the first job that they got was working with youth. It was like a troubled youth. It wasn't like a

Detention center. Okay wasn't a youth detention center, but it was just working with troubled youth They had set times they had to come in and speak with a counselor, right?

And and when I was visiting with her about it after she had been doing it for like a year So you've got your master's degrees now you're putting your psychology into practice.

How are you liking it? She said I'm just working with teenagers and the one thing you want to say to Every one of them and there has yet to be an exception to this.

You just want to tell them you'll get over it No, you can't it's like oh people told me about all the time and I just got even angrier right like it was so backfired

I Can't really say I was all that dramatic a teenager. I mean, I definitely heaped my own drama on myself, right?

I don't know. It's like I just wanted to cause trouble for myself. That was about my freshman and sophomore year

I was little more mature my junior and senior year not a whole lot I always thought myself to be so mature and above my own, you know, and it was yeah

There's still some things I would slap myself kind of but then again, I was really dramatic

Yeah, so I was tough to live with my poor parents. Yeah, your mom keeps telling me that Aria is a lot like you

So yeah, yeah, I'm not looking forward to that only for We got yeah more to look forward to from her

I suppose yeah, that's why I keep praying every day that she's saved The Lord saves her soul and does it early?

Yes. That's right. Yes. Maybe I should add that on Name it and claim it babe

Name it and claim her salvation early Okay, so you had talked about how when you were trying to find significance you would find one thing and it wouldn't be satisfying

And so then you have to go to another thing or it would be just enough Satisfying that I would keep going and then it would look for more or add on to it

Yeah, and then it it got to some extreme situations But so you really see this throughout the pattern of philosophy through the ages as well

And you think about the beginning of philosophy if you're talking about Confucius and Buddha Being like the earliest two big philosophers.

They're about 500 BC so 500 years before Christ is where you've got these guys talking about the significance and the meaning of life and They believed that knowledge

Led to happiness happiness is the meaning of life knowledge Therefore leads to happiness.

So then what you see throughout the trend of philosophy is that? different definitions of happiness and knowledge change

So that would that didn't work So now we're gonna change it to this and maybe this is gonna end up getting us to the solution to this conundrum or this

Problem, right? We've been debating for the centuries, right? The more a person another philosopher who thought that nothing was

Happiness like to not think about yeah, just clear your mind of everything. I tried that too. It don't work

Yeah, well a lot of people it does on the outside, but the inside you still feel Heavy and bogged down right like there were people that got mad at me because I was so happy in high school like literally they said they can't like me because I'm too happy and and I just you know,

I Might have been happy on the outside But in on the inside it was just like I don't

I don't want you to see what's inside, right? because it's all burning and boiling and stuff and and And yeah,

I don't know well the the earliest philosophers it didn't work that's all I know

It's all in vain and that's what Solomon said it's all vanity. It's all chasing after the wind

Yeah, so before these philosophers and it was still to make myself happy. Yeah, and it's all selfish, right?

That was the end goal Before I get to I was gonna read some Solomon here I'm sorry, but before getting to that when

I was in college, this is this is gonna be somewhat of a of a humble brag here But when

I in my senior year of college, I was at Kansas State University I took a philosophy class and when I first got there,

I was told you'll never get into a philosophy class They fill up right away. It's every student wants to go into philosophy.

So don't even try it interesting Well, I got to my last semester and my advisor said you need one more humanities credit

Let me sign you up for philosophy. And I said, I thought you told me I'd never get into a philosophy class He's like, well,

I know the guy and I'm gonna put you in philosophy funny thing about this class Is that the teacher looked just like Keanu Reeves, huh?

And he sounded like neo from the matrix Oh interesting and and so it was it really that's the way he taught.

That was the Keanu Reeves a Personality that he put out was there was neo from the matrix and it just so happened

He really had a thing for Carrie Ann Moss as well Who plays neo's love interest in the movie?

So anyway, so that was really funny I'm in a philosophy class with neo from the matrix

And I was really really good at that class And I when we had papers that were due every other

Friday and it was gonna be on The two philosophers we had talked about there'd be a philosopher one week then the next week

It would be another philosopher And so we're we're talking about the comparisons and the differences between the two and that's what we had to put in our paper

It had to be three -page paper at least. Okay, and I was so adept at writing papers

And I was I had such a grasp on philosophy that I was never writing these papers until an hour before class and I could knock it out every time and there was at one point that I got really concerned about that because I was like one of these times we're gonna get an assignment that's

Gonna be harder and I'm gonna put it off until the last literally the last hour Yeah, I was doing every time and I am

I'm gonna fail. I'm not never gonna get it done So the next time that we had a paper due I gave myself two hours.

Oh I got it done in one hour and then twiddled my thumbs for the next hour

Before class was going to start so I really was I really was good at this class And this teacher did tell me you write the best papers of anyone that I've seen in this class interesting

And of course, I I just you know prided myself in it. Haha. I'm better than all these guys I wish that looking back on that.

I really was not a very solid Christian at that time There were a lot of private sins that I had going on things.

Nobody knew about things that I was doing in the dark alone in my dorm room That that I could do secretly never have to confess to anybody, you know things like that.

So in my in my Outward appearance. I look like the squeaky clean

Christian guy, but inwardly my heart was far from God Right and and the ways that manifested itself in other ways that manifested itself is that I wasn't being evangelical at all

So I wasn't ever sharing my faith with anybody. I just thought I was meeting the bare minimum of a Christian So therefore

I write I can call myself a Christian, you know, and and so I was talking with This philosopher guy one time and he he even asked me

It was when I took my final and I didn't take the final with the rest of the class because I was gone that week And he let me skip it.

Oh, and he said you just come to my office and take it whenever you want You're you've already passed this class

Oh, wow, so the final is not, you know, it's just gonna be the difference between you getting an a or a B That's really what it is at this point

So I went to his office and I took the final and as I was handing it in and we were sitting and talking

He said how how do you have such a grasp of philosophy the way that you do? have you taken other classes before coming into this or Or What's in your mind whenever we're talking about the things we talk about because everything was was open in class

Every class period was just open discussion anybody raise hands say whatever they wanted I'll make a comment here about that in a moment

Before I rabbit -trail too far, but okay I said to him here's here's the basic way that I approach philosophy

There's two rules number one. There's nothing new under the Sun number two.

It's just chasing your tail It's just man chasing his tail it begins and ends with man, right?

And so that's the way I approach it that's the way I look at it whenever we're reading any of these philosophers and and So I'm beginning and ending with the same point.

Yeah, it doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't accomplish anything. None of these philosophers have actually Acquired the knowledge that they were looking for and we think they sound smart

But some of these guys are ridiculously easy to dismantle, right? You know when you have a guy like Emanuel Kant who claimed that you can't really know anything about the real world

Well, then how does he know there's a real world there that you can't really know, right? so so the

You know it's stuff like that and he would just be he would just shake his they'd just be sitting there at his desk shaking His head he's like I've never even thought of that It's like you really right you put these guys up on a pedestal you think they're the thinkers

From history Descartes and Kant and Kierkegaard and Hume and you know

Some of they some of them came up with very good ideas, right? But there was always a flaw and then of course some of them just came up with a ridiculous ideas but what

I wish I would have said to him was All of this is meaningless all of the way all the philosophy that these guys have come up with It's all meaningless doesn't lead anywhere.

It's just chasing your tails just running around in circles, but let me tell you about The one that does give meaning and purpose and significance and that's

Jesus Christ I had the opportunity there to tell him that and that's the other half of the story

That's that's the other half of this should have been the other half of the story should have and it

I mean it should Every day for us. I mean, I'm sure everybody's that Listening to this and thinking, you know, why

I need to say that more to right now Like why don't I say that more 500 years before Buddha and Confucius were ever thinking of these things

Before the eightfold path to happiness or the four noble truths or any of this?

Solomon 500 years before these guys had already thought up and pondered everything. Yeah, and in Ecclesiastes This is what he said.

I said in my heart. I have acquired great wisdom Surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me

Jerusalem the City of God And my heart has had great experience in wisdom and knowledge and I applied my heart to know wisdom and To know madness and folly.

It's like he knew everything backwards in front, right? He knew he knew the highest of wisdom and the lowest of stupidity

I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind for in much wisdom is much vexation and he who increases knowledge

Increases sorrow and you really don't have to Ponder too long to understand that because we have the old adage

Ignorance is bliss, right? You look at the the happy drunk, you know

Totally not a care in the world. He's drunk because he's dumb. He's dulled his senses Yeah to have to think about the stuff in life that he doesn't want to think about.

Mm -hmm this is you know, the same as what you said with All I can't remember the way that you commented on it now

But with how you said none of these things were making you happy So then you just tried not to think of anything at all, right?

I did and it's why people do drugs and get Strung out and and they get totally plastered and loaded on alcohol and all other other kinds of things

They're trying to dull their brain, but that doesn't always work either and that yeah and then that doesn't work and you need more of it right to get you even duller than you were before right and Then eventually it kills you.

Yeah, it does. So the ignorance is bliss statement really Surpasses the philosophers who were trying to say that knowledge is the way that we acquire happiness

But the more, you know, the more sorrowful you become I believe that until you know

Jesus Christ and it's only by knowing him and that incidentally is a gift from God to know

God through Christ is God having given us that knowledge Opening our minds and our hearts to understand what is said in his word about his son

That Paul describes in Colossians in Christ are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge

We find everything that we need to know the answer to everything for life.

We find it in Jesus Christ our Lord amen, and that is

Something that the philosophers are just never going to come to because in all of man's ponderings, they will never get there

It's a chasing after the wind It's the Apostle Paul saying in 1st Corinthians 1 18 that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing

Yeah, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God and then in 1st Corinthians 2 14 where he says that The natural man cannot discern spiritual things for they are spiritually discerned and they are folly to him

The natural man can't perceive this It is we who have been given the Holy Spirit of God that understand the things of God because they are spiritually discerned, right?

So that is not up to us. That's right. The the meaning of life is

Christ in a nutshell John 14 6 Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life and No one gets to the

Father, but by me He is the answer as who was it that Andre crouch wrote the song

Jesus is the answer for the world today Above him. There's no other Jesus is the way

Amen, still true. What did he write that back in the 70s or something like that? I have no idea. Yep Still needed in in the 2010s.

We still in the 2010s. We are that's right. Barely. It's not 2020 until next year So, thank you for your thank you for your question

Jonathan as a matter of fact your question occupied about the first half hour of Our podcast. Yeah, and a great name, by the way.

Yes, that's my brother's name. I think we have another John in here, too it might be the Nope, nope, but I thought a non is what you saw.

No go down Clint. No, David Anon, okay, two anons two that asked not to be mentioned.

Uh -huh, and then a Clinton a David Well, I thought that the David was a Daniel and I was like, hey, that's my dad's name.

That's your dad's name We got your brother's name. We got your dad's name yeah, next question comes from a non pastor

Gabe a pastor of another church is counseling a member of my Congregation and I don't like it.

It's not that I distrust the member of my flock who is also a close friend I'm disappointed in the pastor

I don't like that another Pastor is giving someone from my church spiritual guidance and that pastor has never called to talk with me about it

I'm not asking for the lowdown on what's going on. I would just like the courtesy of being told

Hey, I'm helping a member of your flock. Do you think it is unreasonable for me to feel this way?

It is a common problem in our little community that when someone goes from our church to another church the pastor of the church

They're now attending feels no need to contact their former pastor I am a pastor of a small church and I have no other pastors in my church on whom that I can rely for Counsel, I don't think of myself as a jealous person

But I've always been bothered when these or other similar situations arise from one pastor to another

How have you dealt with occasions such as this? Thank you for your time and for your ministry Well, first of all anonymous pastor.

I really don't think that you're going through anything that That I want to say every other pastor is dealt with this to some degree

Okay, I mean whether you're from a small town or you're from a big city Yeah I think that every pastor has dealt with you know kind of an internal struggle or maybe just hurt feelings over the fact that a member of their congregation would go somewhere else and Why they would do that, you know, it may be for petty reasons or whatever, right?

But then and even going to that next church Why doesn't the pastor called the previous church?

and ask Hey, what's going on? Why has a member of your flock now come into mine or even just a call and say hey

I just want to let you know that the member that was formerly at your church is now at mine and we're taking good care

Of them, you know, why isn't there that kind of camaraderie that exists between the pastors? I've certainly been hurt by things like this before right?

But at the same time I don't I don't want to sit on here and say haha I'm better than all these other guys that doesn't want to be

I don't want that to be my approach at all I just want to say I've learned from this situation that when somebody has come into my flock from another church

I'm not gonna get greedy and like great. I got one more person in my church I'm needing the extra money in the offering plate

Anyway, right, you know or I want the extra body in there because I'm teaching better than those other guys in town, right?

But when that person comes in I'm gonna sit down and have a conversation with him I'm gonna say what other church were you attending before you came here and have you talked with him and Made things right if if things aren't going well

Before you came here, right? Tried to work that right if you tried to work that out and there have been a couple of times that has happened

Mm -hmm, and the result of that has been that the person left our church and went to another one.

Yeah Because there was the one time that they went back to their church Yeah, and that's happened before too where they did go back to their church make things right and I believe they've been there ever since When I was when

I was just starting out There was a former pastor of my church. Not anybody that I worked with.

He had been pastor at our church years ago Okay, I don't even know if you've met him before maybe maybe you have

I'm not sure Anyway, he called we had a funeral one time for a member of our congregation

And it was somebody that he pastored when he was a pastor at this church They had been here at the church for that long.

Mm -hmm, and he called me up and said hey I just wanted to let you know I'm coming into town. I'm going over to visit with the family

I'm gonna talk with him and pray with him and he said he said to me I just am calling to let you know this because I don't go into any other pastors

Jurisdiction or congregation or territory without notifying him of that first that was kind and that taught me a lot

Just him doing that taught me that I need to exemplify that same kind of behavior

Right, so not just when someone comes into my church from another church But even if I'm gonna go into another community somebody's calling me and saying hey,

I want to talk to you about something Could you come and visit with me? I'm gonna go to that person and call their pastor and say just letting you know

Member of your flock has contacted me and asked me to talk and pray with them And so that's what I'm coming over to do

And so I appreciate I appreciate that lesson that the Lord would teach me that Through the example of this pastor of this other minister, and I think in today's society.

We've really gotten away from Common courtesy. Yeah, and Because we just got done talking about it's all about me.

So it's it's hard to get away from it whenever At the the regular society the the courtesies out the window all together

So even if we're talking with someone to help them become better Christian then that's good enough, you know not going out of our way for anything else

So it's it's hard to remember what it used to be like as far as what was common courtesy, you know, and then to to go above and beyond that is just Rarely heard of yeah, and so That's right.

So anonymous pastor. I would just extend to you that I mean you humble yourself in this situation and that you treat people with reverence and respect

If you feel like, you know The other pastor of the church where a member of your congregation is gone

Don't just sit there in bitterness and say well why and that pastor contacted me? Yeah, maybe and again,

I don't know the situation and the relationship between you and this other minister, but Maybe you'd be the one to reach out and say hey

We had a member of your of our flock that had stepped out and I understand they're attending your church How are things going? Mm -hmm, and don't do it to gossip

Don't do it to try to get revenge like well this member left my church and now they're over at yours And here's what they did when they were here unless something really serious did happen in which case you probably do have to either warn them or Because you care for that former member of your flock and they're needing to be shepherded a certain way

Right called to repentance over something may be contacting that pastor and alerting them to that Anyway, if anything

I hope that what I'm impressing upon you is a spirit of humility That you just not think of yourself as being well

I'm better than all those guys and why don't those guys pay attention to me? Give it to the Lord Submit it to God and and let the

Lord work in the hearts of either those other pastors or the members of your congregation that Have walked away and if you never your heart and yes and your heart as well if you never hear from them again

You know my heart breaks for you I certainly relate with you and I can tell you that a lot of other pastors do as well

I know that you wish that the common courtesy would kind of improve but like Becky said be the one that sets the example

Yeah, and be that courteous person though You know that others may not extend to you the same courtesy in return right next question

This one comes from Clint greetings go Becky. Hello. I hope I spelled that right looks right to me looks right

I also hope that I'm sending this email to the right place. I'm meaning to send it to WWTT at gmail .com

or maybe the initial should be spelled out It's why I've cc'd pastor

Gabe on this one, forgive me if I got the main email wrong So I pulled this one out of my pastor pastor

Gabe Hughes at gmail account Because we don't have WWTT at gmail.

Oh Our gmail address is when we understand the text it is all spelled out at gmail .com.

That's right So again, I didn't open the program this way, but being the Friday edition of the podcast

We take questions from the listeners and you can submit your questions by emailing them to when we understand the text at gmail .com.

I Don't think I even said that last week either. I don't remember last week Something about last week leads me to believe

I didn't I didn't give the email address out in that one either Anyway, so Clint goes on here I've been reading much church history as of late and I wanted to ask you some questions on this if my understanding is correct

It appears Montanism placed emphasis on direct revelation from God and women preachers

Would this make such folk as Beth Moore Kelly mentor and Priscilla Shirer?

Shirer, I can't ever pronounce her last name Tony Evans daughter. Anyway, would it make them modern -day?

Montanists if they're Montanists, couldn't we rightly classify them as heretics?

Also, could you pinpoint which historical figures used music to draw people to their teachings the way today's modern heretical quartet?

Do like Hillsong Bethel Jesus culture and elevation worship very thankful for your ministry and how careful slash

Technical you and Becky are in informing the audience that this ministry is no replacement for a local church

This type of technical exhortation is sorely lacking in modern evangelicalism Praying for you both to stay faithful in this blessed endeavor.

Thank you. Thank you so much brother And yeah, we so it reiterating again this program

Nor any of the other podcasts that you listen to right are a replacement for the church body that you should be fellowshipping with, right?

And listen, you can get online and you can listen to better preachers Then you would probably consider your pastor at church being

And I've said the same to my own congregation There are better preachers out there than me You want to sit at home and bring up a podcast and listen to some other preacher that's better than I am

There's plenty there's a plethora of them to choose from they're definitely out there, but that's not what we've been called to right

We've been called to be united as a body to grow together in the preaching and teaching of the word and we're all sitting under the same

Guidance and leadership as that word is being preached not just from me But also from the other elders, that's right, because we're a plurality eldership in my church.

I also submit to the other elders So what they say I submit to yes

That's the great thing about being in a plurality Eldership is like the instruction that Peter gives in first Peter chapter 5 to be in submission to the elders

In a plurality eldership. Everybody has to obey that even the pastor's got to obey that so I Delight to obey that and and I love my brothers

Dave and Dwight and the and the Fellowship and the work that we do together in the Lord They are not just good elders to be in in this work of ministry with but they're good friends as well

Amen, so let's go back to Clint's question now after I've glowingly heaped praise on my on my brothers

So he's asking about Montanism now Montanism Came about in the

I want to say it was the 2nd century. It was a fellow by the name of Montanus who lived

Looking through my info here about AD 135 to late

AD 177 so it's you were kind of uncertain as to when the

Montanism activity was going on But that's when we believe that it was okay And we only know about it because of the writings of others that have said things about Montanism we we don't have any surviving writings of Montanism interesting

And the reason for that is because it was heresy And so the church that was able to suppress that at the time had any of those works destroyed, right?

But you had a fellow by the name of Montanus and he had two female colleagues Pritia sometimes called

Priscilla. Okay, just like you have Akilah and Priscilla right who were Evangelists to Apollos.

Mm -hmm. So this that's the same name, of course, not the same person but same name

Priscilla and and Maximilla was the other woman and they Claimed that they were receiving revelation from the

Holy Spirit that was even above and beyond the things that they were getting from the Word of God and These two women even became more popular than Montanus but together

Montanus with Priscilla and Maximilla they kind of became known as the three and they spoke in just these charismatic ways and in all this ecstasy and they would go into trances like we would think about the charismatics and the

Pentecostals doing today and they would encourage their followers to fast and pray and if they were to Apply this asceticism to their bodies.

So like causing the body to suffer through fasting Okay, or denying the body of something right then it would cause a certain pain or anguish or longing for God that would allow them to see revelations if a person was suffering from Hunger, but you know if a person is deprived of food long enough, they're probably gonna start hallucinating.

That's what I was gonna say Or or like you're so dehydrated because you haven't been drinking and then you start having hallucinations.

Yeah So, I mean I see stars whenever I don't have the right amount of Anything just yeah your blood sugar level.

Yeah, so I can't imagine Yeah, that's what it sounds like they were doing

They were telling people to deprive themselves of certain things to the body that would actually cause You know physical aches and pains and maybe even cause them you mean damage

That's right physical damage cause damage to their bodies. Yes. Now Tertullian is a famous early church father

And he actually defended Montanism interesting. He defended the idea that the

Holy Spirit is still working in such a way that is revealing new truths And I think that Tertullian even kind of came into a sense of boredom at some point with with just the the word studies and he wanted to also believe that there was

Some revelation that was going on outside of the study of the Word of God So that's why he clung to what was called new prophecy and he was even kind of led in the direction of Montanism you see

I knew that Eusebius wrote about it as well. So like I said, there are writings that have been preserved that reference

Montanism, but we don't actually have anything from Montanism to really get a clear idea of exactly what they were teaching whether there were some claims to Basic doctrinal truths that would have the way that they were describing those basic doctrines may have come out to be heretical

Yeah, but we do know that the early church for the most part did consider Montanism to be heresy so then

Clint's question here is Given that there were these women prophets Priscilla and Maximilla along with Montanus who were coming up with these extra biblical revelations

Given that this was being called Heresy by the early church would that then make people like Beth Moore Kelly mentor and Priscilla Shirer modern -day

Montanus Would we call them heretics? well

I'm gonna err on the side of grace and say no. Mm -hmm I don't think of Beth Moore Kelly men mentor and Priscilla Shirer were as Montanists, uh -huh.

I do consider the International House of Prayer and Bethel Church Jesus culture everything else lumped in with them.

I do consider them to be the modern -day Montanus because you've got

You've got a guy like Mike Bickle who is the founder and the leader of the

International House of Prayer You've got him saying things like hey, I went to heaven and I had a personal audience with God He says this didn't just happen once it happened two times and he's having a personal conversation

With Jesus who's telling him what he's gonna go back to earth and do Wow That is really more on the level of what the

Montanus were doing I've not ever heard Beth Moore say something to the degree of you know

I just I just went into this like otherworldly sort of place and God was revealing these new things to me

Wasn't Jesus in her backyard Well, okay She was she was sitting on her back porch and she said that God kind of like raised her up and showed her

The church from his vantage point. Mm -hmm, and that's what she's claiming Okay, and and what she saw was the

Roman Catholic Church was included in with this one church The way that Jesus saw it from a particular dimension is the way that she okay

There's a way that she talked about it So we know that what she was saying was a lie in the sense that God could not have possibly been showing her that but whenever you press

Beth Moore on this stuff whenever Somebody actually has a close enough association with her and really does start to push back on some of these claims that she makes

She'll say well, you know I wasn't really like I didn't Ascend off my back porch and I'm like sitting up here in this upper dimension and I'm looking down on the church or what?

She'll try to qualify that. I don't literally hear the voice of God in my head

It's just the still small voice, you know that she hears in her conscience or something like that Of course the follow -up question of that would be well then what's the difference?

Yeah I mean you are you talking about the difference between a prophet and you is that a prophet heard?

The audible voice of God speaking out loud, but you don't but you're still saying what you think

God is speaking in your heart, which is therefore Just as authoritative as what an what a prophet said or what an

Apostle said. So like what is the difference exactly? What's the difference between hearing the audible voice of God and hearing a voice in your head?

Yeah, like you're claiming. So anyway But there are gonna be some people that will disagree

There are gonna be some people are gonna push back on me and say no We really do think that Beth Moore Kelly mentor and Priscilla Shira are

Our modern -day monotonous And therefore heretics, okay

I just I don't go that far simply because I've never heard Beth Moore say anything

That I would that would lead me to believe that she's a heretic Everything that I've heard her say regarding the teaching of Christ Honestly is all right on as far as the fundamentals are concerned

Never heard her say anything that I would consider to be heretical I do believe that Beth Moore is a false teacher, but even if a person won't accept that she's a false teacher

I hope that at the very least they can recognize that she is unqualified and I think that goes without saying

And not just in the sense that she is a woman who is teaching men and she even fills in pulpits in Churches on Sunday morning.

So she is doing something that first Timothy 212 Explicitly prohibits when

Paul says I do not permit a woman to have authority over a man rather She is to remain quiet teaching women.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with Beth Moore if she were doing that There's certainly still a pragmatism to her teaching that I don't like and we wouldn't use our materials

Or we wouldn't use her materials in our church, right? But nevertheless, there's not enough Substance there for me to say of her that she's a heretic

She's a very very poor witness though. She gets very very childish online picks fights with people

Puts fellow believers down. Yeah, she will say Yeah, she will say things that are just cryptic enough that it causes quarrels among people

She does not speak on tough issues rather She loves to side with those things that are culturally trendy and popular, right?

And so there are many there's a multitude of ways that Beth Moore has disqualified herself

You very very rarely ever hear her say things about like God took me to this other place and showed me this other thing

As a matter of fact, you find just very few bits and pieces of that stuff Just smattered around in some video clippings on YouTube, right, but it's not common to her teaching

I've listened to a lot of Beth Moore sermons and you very rarely Hear her say that I say that I've listened to a lot of Beth Moore sermons and my wife rolled her eyes

Yeah, I feel sorry for you. Well, a lot of it was before you and I met

Because yeah, that's right because when I was in Christian radio, we were playing her on the air So I've listened to her a lot and I can say that of every sermon that I listened to her preach on the radio.

I never heard her say anything like Like God showed me this vision or he spoke into my heart or something like that now now there certainly was that story of her

Combing the gut or brushing the guy's hair in the airport, right? I heard that long time ago long before it ever got popular.

I was hearing that story and And yeah, she definitely tells stories like that where she feels like God is telling her something and you know

So she's relaying this happy -go -lucky God in her story of like I want you to go brush the man's hair

Here's God telling her I want you to go brush the man's hair, you know So there's certainly things like that, but it's not the sort of a deal where she is is getting like this this voice from the cosmos that's speaking to her or giving her some sort of Trance vision or something to that degree.

Yeah, those stories are very rare. They're few and far between She's definitely more charismatic.

She's like that Baptist hostel. Yeah, and she seems to be getting more and more chummy with the the people who are

Heretical the the ones that are heretical. Yes. Yeah. Yeah like with concerning the

Bethel Church crowd I mean Jackie Hill Perry's doing the same thing Yeah, she's starting to minister with the

Bethel Church group and I you know this really kind of I won't say it necessarily started with Francis Chan, but he was certainly one of the first big names

That started partnering with this group of not just Charismatic and Pentecostal heretics who actually teach fundamental doctrines in a heretical way

They teach heresy on the fundamental level, right? So so they're not just Heretics in that sense, but they're also prosperity preachers.

Mm -hmm and Beth Moore certainly has association with that She's preached at Joel Osteen's church, right?

She's done numerous things with Joel and with Victoria Osteen with Hillsong and Brian Houston With the crouches on their program on TBN shows

So she is heavily connected to the prosperity movement folks And there there's a lot of danger there with Beth Moore enough to not have to try to make these

These comparisons to her being a Montanist. In fact, I feel like most of the time this this is just my opinion

I'm just sharing my opinion here Alright, but I really feel like our tendency to want to paint

Beth Moore as this person who claims to hear voices from God I think that when we're harping on that aspect of her ministry

I don't think we're we're gonna be winning many of her people into understanding what's wrong with her, right?

I really think if you're gonna find a vulnerable place in the stuff that she does you really need to be pointing at Joyce Meyer Right Joel Osteen Joel and Victoria Osteen or associations with Brian Houston or associations with with Bethel Church That's where you need to go and say this this is why

Beth Moore is dangerous A lot of folks really just don't know enough about her teaching

They just grab little bits and pieces videos off of YouTube and say see this is why

Beth Moore is dangerous To people who really really like Beth Moore that just makes you look like a conspiracy theorist, right?

I'm not to say that you're wrong It's just probably not the best approach to try to win people

Who really are under her influence and warning them about the the problems that she poses?

Yeah, you're more likely to cause a Argument then yeah, it's actually good. Anyway, they're gonna right away.

They're gonna dismiss you. Oh, you're one of those Yeah, you're one of the heresy hunters. Yeah, you know, so you have to be discerning about it

You understand the instruction of Christ to be as shrewd as serpents and as gentle as doves, that's right

It's almost like shrewd as serpents almost means you have to think like they think like how what's the other side of this argument, right?

How do I think like the person that I'm arguing with so that I might be able to show them some truth?

Mm -hmm, and then being as gentle as doves when you when you do that Okay, so having done those questions now.

I've got two more questions left here and Both of these questions are pretty heavy.

Okay, and I really don't think we have enough time left in the program to address them both and You are you also?

Get closer and closer to fading. I do when we get to kind of this part of the program If we can somehow get to on a

Thursday recording these earlier in the day Yeah, I can I can probably keep Becky's energy level up through right through the duration of the program actually napped that would be helpful

Yes, or at least laid down, you know, cuz then we can come downstairs and record while they're napping, right?

Yeah Yeah, but that doesn't happen. Did you did you drink anything before we you know, like some tea or some coffee?

Yeah, I also had quite a bit of candy to To pet me up, but it's gone it's it's probably faded

So as as my as my wife's as the head of this household

I could take a break and run upstairs and grab some more then I have about another half hour

Well true, but we like I said, you know as we try to keep 15 minutes day. Oh, yeah, right

We have to stop the recording right we gotta let the sugar kick in What do you call that intermission let's take an intermission let me play another what video

But then while While you would be doing that we still wouldn't have enough time to polish off the rest of these questions

Anyway, I'm still trying to think like how are we gonna fill up the whole hour here? We're just gonna cut it a tad bit short.

Just a few minutes shorter than you Conversed a little bit more in the beginning, huh? So now you can do your plugs my plugs yeah, so the

Friday podcast is when you email in their questions, okay, we answer them and You can be very creative in your question to make sure you get on the podcast which is what

Jonathan from Arizona did exactly right or you can just straight out ask your question and Just if we have time we can put it on the podcast and if not, then

We'll save it for the next part Or we email you back. We always email back though the answer.

Well, I can't say that no Yeah, I don't email everybody back some of you have not received any emails from me at all so now

I love you So much for your support. Yes, we do and we we pray for you and we appreciate your prayers for us

And and we just keep plugging away So as long as the Lord is gonna have us doing this it is a privilege for us to be able to do it

And we thank you for your continued support and by the way in supporting this ministry is a couple of ways that you can do that you can send donations to the church

And we've talked about that before if you go to wwut .com and click on the give tab You can send a contribution to the church that way through the internet or you can send a check send it in the mail to First Southern Baptist Church 1220

West 8th Street Junction City, Kansas 66441 There is something else that I've got coming up in the near future that maybe

You can also do this to help support the ministry and it would be a financial support.

I'll talk about that at another time But in the meantime, you can't give money and we always encourage you to support your local church first Oh, yes, definitely

So you're giving your of your offerings to your local church before you give to us and then whatever else you can send our way

We would greatly appreciate it. Yes Oh, what was I gonna say? Oh and and the way that if you can't give

The way that you can always support us is just to tell somebody else about the ministry Yes, just share the videos on Facebook or Twitter or Instagram.

Can you share the videos on Instagram? I have no idea. I'm not even on Instagram. I'm not either never used it. Don't even know about it

I think I started an account one time so you could probably find when we understand the text on Instagram Yeah, cuz

I might have started it, but I'm not there. Yeah, there's nothing on there Um, I know you can post videos.

So I don't know if somebody can copy and paste it. Yeah, something like that I don't know. I've never seen anybody link it to Cuz like on Twitter, it'll post that somebody posted on Instagram.

Yeah, so I'll click on it to see what they posted and I've never seen anybody post about a different like a link for a different Website, you know what

I mean like Maybe as a blog but not as a YouTube anything, right?

I don't know if you can well I know I've seen us through Pinterest. Yeah, like Pinterest links to what videos and stuff like that before or our memes, you know

So that's a way that you can support the ministry and Just share whatever we post online and let folks know about when we understand the text.

We appreciate it very much We'll be back next week. Yes, God willing. Let us pray. Yes, Heavenly Father We thank you for our time together and we thank you that you have revealed to us

The meaning of life and that meaning is through your son Jesus Christ who died on the cross for our sins

Rose again from the grave ascended to heaven where he is seated at the right hand of the throne of God So that all who believe in him will be forgiven their sins and will have fellowship with God not just in this life

But eternally forever with the Lord in the kingdom that we have been promised as fellow heirs with Christ And we have all of our meaning and purpose and significance in this we were made for worship

We were made to honor God and to love you with all of our heart soul mind and strength all of us are sinners and had fallen short of the glory of God and it is only by your grace and mercy that Our sin has been shown to us and the the path to you through your son

Jesus Christ has been made so I pray that we would rejoice in this daily

We would understand our significance is found in Christ alone And we would share this hope and this truth with others in Jesus name.

We pray. Amen. Amen Bolts and screws and they don't match anything.

That's why I just leave them on the floor. Oh, of course, because that's Right So, I don't know what they go to so might as well just Leave them where they're at That's right, exactly.

That's right. Now you understand instead of the safe place you understand how my sanguine mind works infamous safe place

That always seems to be the worst place to put things even though at the time it's the most logical You can throw that away.

I didn't know if you needed that. No, I got I got the other envelope up there. Oh Straighten all this up You're gonna you're gonna pick something up and find a spider.

I am that's what's gonna happen. I'm gonna go Yes, gonna be like you're gonna have to explain to everybody. Don't do it

Couldn't help myself my compulsive behaviors then you found a spider and then I found a spider and ran for my life

Does your wife leave you no, she's just several blocks down somewhere. Yeah. Yeah staying at Sonya's house

Get away from the spiders Sonny's got him too, babe. No. No, she sprays so I'm gonna pretend that she doesn't

Shh, leave me to my bubble. I Gotta have a safe haven somewhere

Is there anywhere in the world that does not have spiders Anywhere, I haven't been everywhere in the world.

I would say I would suggest cold places But your problem is that you want a warm weather place to live

There's preferably with water the warm weather places where there's the biggest bugs, babe, especially near water

Just want the best of all worlds is that too much to ask it's called heaven it is