History or Legend John 20:1-29

Portions of the Great Depression, maybe not. To remember any of this, you'd have to be at least 90 years old. There may be a few in this room who remember World War II, the war that surpassed World War I in size and destruction.

There are a few more in this room who remember the Korean War. There are probably a good number who remember what happened on November 22, 1963, when John F. Kennedy was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas, Texas.

There's also a good number of you who remember the Vietnam War, and there may even be a few here who served in the Vietnam War. There's a great number of you who remember the presidency of Ronald Reagan.

He was an actor, turned governor, and then president. He famously told Gorbachev, tear down this wall in West Berlin at the end of the Cold War. And this brings history up to the time I was born. That year was 1986, and it was that year that the spacecraft known as the Challenger in the atmosphere suddenly exploded, killing all seven passengers on board.

A large number of you remember the Gulf War that took place in 1990 and 1991. A majority of this room remembers the Waco siege that took place in 1993, and then two years later, the Oklahoma City bombing took place in 1995.

And how could many in this room forget what happened before the end of the millennium? Y2K, what people were saying, what experts, I don't know if you want to call them experts, but what they said was, when the year hits 2000, the computers just might shut off.

And imagine if that happened. The whole world would go into chaos. And how could we forget what happened one year after that on September 11, 2001 in New York City and Washington, DC? Then we flash forward to about two decades after that, and we come to March of 2020, only four years ago.

But what happened four years ago changed our country and the world forever. During this time, something happened that has never happened before. The entire world shut down because of a virus called COVID -19 that started in China and was spreading all over the world.

We can remember this event well, and we still feel the effects of it. Anytime you see someone wearing a mask, we still see the effects of it. I could talk for a long time to explain the effects that have come from COVID -19.

It was not just the virus that was the issue, but the government overstepping their bounds on individuals, businesses, and churches. What happened in 2020 was deep cultural turmoil. It was not only COVID -19, but also the advance of social justice that took full steam with the George Floyd incident.

Social justice is a Marxist understanding of the world pushed by the left that has stained just about every American institution, including Christian academia, parachurch organizations, and churches. And unless you're a very young child, we all lived through this.

And what I have listed are historical events, mostly in our country, that the people in this room have experienced in some measure. These events really happened. They were told by those who lived through them, and then they were written down by historians.

And as we think about history, not every event in life is written down. In fact, most are lost to history. The events that are remembered are the significant ones. In these events from the past are tragedies and triumphs remembered.

Resurrection Sunday and the Question of History

Now, this morning is Resurrection Sunday. I call it Resurrection Sunday. I think that's a better way to say it than Easter. It is Resurrection Sunday because that's what this day is all about, right? It's not about the Easter Bunny.

It's about the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. But the sad reality is that this day that we come to remember what Christ has done on our behalf, many do not believe what happened 2 ,000 years ago actually happened.

They do not believe that it is history, as these events I already explained to you this morning are history. So what we're going to do this morning is we are going to ask the question, are these details retelling actual history, or is it legend, as some say?

So at this time, I encourage you to turn in a Bible with me to John chapter 20. If you don't have a Bible, we have the Red Bibles in the pews. We're going to be looking at most of the chapter here, verses 1 through 29.

And as you can see on the screen here, the title of the sermon is History or Legend. And here's our big idea, what this text, what this sermon is calling you to do. Understand that Scripture's evidence shows the bodily resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact.

Okay, that's the big idea. We're supposed to understand that it is a historical fact. And we're going to see four reasons why in this text. And here's the first reason why, that we're going to see in verses 1 through 10.

Grave Robbers Did Not Take the Body

Grave robbers did not take the body. Okay, let's read verses 1 through 10 to start off here. John chapter 20. Now on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.

So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, they have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him. So Peter went out with the other disciple, and they were going toward the tomb.

Both of them were running together. But the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. And stooping in to look in, he saw the linen cloths lying there. But he did not go in. Then Simon Peter came following him and went into the tomb.

He saw the linen cloths lying there. And the face cloth, which had been on Jesus' head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded up in a place by itself. Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went in.

And he saw and believed. For as yet they did not understand the scripture that he must rise from the dead. Then the disciples went back to their homes. As I mentioned in the introduction, for 2 ,000 years, people have speculated as to what happened to the body of Jesus.

One popular view is that grave robbers came and took the body away. In order to determine if this is true, you need to look at the evidence. Christians, of all people, we are people who look at the evidence.

We don't want to believe things just to believe things. We look at the facts. Do the facts support the conclusion you are trying to reach? True events will always have solid evidence to show that an event actually happened.

For example, when John Kennedy was shot, we have visual evidence. As it was recorded in what became known as the Zapruder film. And we also have numerous eyewitnesses that show this to be a true historical event.

By the same token, events that are fabricated lack evidence. If someone claims a crime was committed, but there is no evidence, the claim should be quickly dismissed. Many have speculated that random grave robbers came and took the body.

But this is greatly lacking, as we will see. While some have said grave robbers took the body, an even more popular view is that the disciples, the twelve disciples, in fact at this time it would have been eleven disciples, the eleven disciples came up with this scheme and they took the body of Jesus.

That's why the body wasn't there. What is interesting is that the Bible actually addresses this accusation. We know this from Matthew 28, verses 11 -15, where that passage reads, While they were going, behold, some of the guard went into the city and told the chief priests all that had taken place.

And when they had assembled with the elders and taken counsel, they gave a sufficient sum of money to the soldiers and said, Tell people his disciples came by night and stole him away while we were asleep.

And if this comes to the governor's ears, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble. So they took the money and did as they were directed. And this story has been spread among the Jews to this day.

Okay, so Matthew is writing the Gospel of Matthew and he's saying, Just so you know, this view is out there, this fable that the disciples stole the body. The Jewish leaders lied and this became a myth that spread among the Jews.

And many Jews and non-Jews still believe this to this day. It's hard to fathom the hardness of the hearts of these Jewish leaders, the very ones who put Jesus on the cross as they delivered him over to Pilate to be crucified.

At this moment, deep down, they probably realized that he was resurrected from the dead. So why don't they just believe? Why don't they just admit we were wrong? He truly is the Messiah. The answer is they hated him and they murdered him.

And they would never be willing to admit that. And they would never want to follow him. So they just were okay. Okay, let's just lie and let's believe this lie. If Jesus is who the people were saying he is, that he is the long-awaited Messiah predicted by the Old Testament, then the Jewish leaders are wrong.

This means they're not for God, but rather against God. Their hard hearts would not let them come to this place. So let's look at the evidence about how we know the body was not stolen. Let's zero in on verses two through five, where we see that Mary ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved and said to them, they have taken the Lord out of the tomb and we do not know where they have laid him.

So Peter goes out with the other disciple. And we read here that the other disciple, John, is in fact faster than Peter. He outruns Peter and he reaches the tomb first and stooping to look in, they see the linen cloths lying there, but do not go in.

Verse five says that linen cloths were lying there. If a grave robber were stealing the body, do you think they would take the time to fold his clothes? A grave robber would take the body as is. When the thieves steal, they do it quickly.

This is the first piece of evidence. But verses six and seven say something even more convincing. Okay, so the claws are off of Jesus. And I already mentioned this in verses six and seven. They're not just off of him, but they're actually folded.

Okay, it says that they're folded in verses six and seven. Jesus had a face cloth on his head when he was buried. Do grave robbers fold a face cloth before they leave? Of course not. Grave robbers are not going to fold a face cloth as they steal the body.

The apostle John, who wrote this, deliberately included this detail in this text to emphasize that the body could not have been stolen. Jesus took off his burial clothes and neatly folded the face cloth to show that he was the one who took off his clothes.

Okay, who did this? Jesus did. And he left it for them to see. Just a little piece of evidence to show that this really happened. It's interesting how God does this. He shows us enough to believe. We don't have video footage of that day.

Video cameras were not invented till the last 130 years or so. What God does is he shows enough evidence and we are to show faith with what he has given us. Now John, who was running to the tomb with Peter, was persuaded by what he saw.

As verse 8 says, when he reached the tomb first, he also went in and he saw and believed. Peter may also have believed at this point by what Luke says in chapter 24, verse 12 of Luke. Peter marveled at what he saw.

They believed even though at this point they were a bit confused about how a resurrected Messiah fit in with what the Old Testament said concerning the Messiah. And this is what verse 9 says, for as yet they did not understand the scripture that he must rise from the dead.

We've talked about this before. The Old Testament predicts the death and resurrection of Christ. And every time Jesus told them, I am going to die and rise again, the disciples were always confused. Because there was this, the common view was the Messiah is going to come.

He's going to drive out his enemies. And then he's going to reign. So this is their belief. And then Jesus tells them, I'm going to die. So they understood a reigning Messiah, but they didn't understand that he needed to suffer.

They would eventually come to understand that that's what the Old Testament said all along. So there we have it. But John and Peter believed as they came to the tomb. And as we have seen the evidence, it shows that there were no grave robbers.

He took the body and the disciples did not deceitfully take the body away. So you and I are to understand that from scripture's evidence, the bodily resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact. And the first reason why is that clearly robbers did not take the body.

Here's the second point. The second reason why the bodily resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact, and that is that women played a prominent role in the events of that morning. In this one, we have to flashback.

We have to put ourselves in the shoes of those who lived 2 ,000 years ago. 2 ,000 years ago, women were not considered a reliable witness. But in verses 11 through 18, what we see here is that Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept, she stooped to look into the tomb.

And she saw two angels in white sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet. And they said to her, Woman, why are you weeping? And then she says, They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.

And having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing. But she did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to her, Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking? Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.

Jesus said to her,.

Mary.

She turned and said to him in Aramaic, Rabboni, which means teacher. Jesus said to her, Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and to your God.

Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, I have seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her. So the narrator John states that Jesus was standing near Mary, but she didn't know immediately that it was him.

This suggests that while indeed this was Jesus, this is Jesus in a resurrected body. And this is interesting, because if you are in Christ, one day you will have a resurrected body, but apparently you won't look exactly the same, because they could not recognize him immediately.

It's an interesting fact. And what we see in verse 15 is that Jesus talks to Mary. Mary thinks that Jesus is the gardener and has taken the body somewhere. But the moment Mary knew it was Jesus was when he said her name,.

Mary.

At that moment, she knew. It's amazing when babies are in the womb, they can recognize the voice of their mom and their dad. So that when they come out of the womb, they already know the people. Now they finally see their parents with their eyes.

It's so interesting. We actually made a CD a few years back. It's mostly Mark Brooks singing. Brianna's singing a little bit. And there's one song on there. It's the worst song on the CD by far. It's I'm singing a song.

And my voice would come on. And Isaiah was like six months old and he would just lighten up. Oh, that's dad's voice. Like, it's amazing how that works. We recognize people's voices and everybody has a different voice.

You think of how many people live in the world. Everybody has a little bit of a different voice. But the moment that Jesus said Mary's name, Mary knew it was him. And he tells her in verses 17 and 18 to tell the disciples that he has risen and that he will be ascended to the father.

Jesus will only be with them a short time before he goes to heaven. And he wants them to know that. But there's a very important point that we need to notice. The first three people that Jesus appeared to were all women.

The four gospels all describe the events of that day. And when you read all of them, all the details are brought together. What we see in our text is that Mary Magdalene is the first person that Jesus appears to.

And then the other two women that Jesus appeared to were the other women described here in Matthew 28 and 9. And Mark 16 tells us their names. They are Mary, the mother of James. And James was one of the twelve disciples.

And the third woman is Salome, who was the mother of the disciples, John and James. Okay, so two of the women are mothers of the disciples. And then one of them is Mary Magdalene. Now, why is it significant that women were the first eyewitnesses?

I've already told you that. 2 ,000 years ago, when in a court of law, a female witness was not considered reliable. And obviously we know that's wrong, but that's what they believed 2 ,000 years ago. If the disciples were trying to fabricate this story, as some have said, they would not have written it this way.

They would not have written it as three women going to the tomb first, finding the tomb empty. They would have written someone prominent from society found the body. Someone who was respected. That's the way it would have been written.

But that's not how it was written. Because when something is historical, people don't care about trying to persuade people about what happened. There's one job. Just say what happened.

That's it.

And that's what the disciples are doing here. They're just writing it down. Three women came to the tomb and found Jesus before any of the men ever found her. So understand that scripture's evidence shows the bodily resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact.

And the second reason why is that women played a prominent role. The third reason why it's a historical fact is that the eyewitnesses were not mistaken. I once heard a Christian apologist, an apologist is someone who defends the Christian faith.

This Christian apologist argued effectively for the legitimacy of the resurrection of Christ. And this apologist once debated a man who agreed with him that the disciples really thought they saw Jesus after his death.

But the man, this Christian apologist was debating, said that the one they saw that looked like Jesus wasn't actually Jesus. It had to be that he had a twin brother. True story. Jesus, of course, didn't have a twin brother.

He was born of the Virgin Mary and there was only one baby in that womb. But with this story, you see the extremes that people have to go to in order to explain away what really happened on that Sunday morning.

What we are going to see in verses 19 through 23 is that the same person who was crucified at Golgotha, at Calvary on Friday is the same one who appeared to the women and the disciples and everyone else after his death.

So in verses 19 through 23, on the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews. Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, Peace be with you.

And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. And Jesus said to them again, Peace be with you as the father has sent me, even so I am sending you.

And when they had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them. If you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.

In these verses, the disciples were hiding because they feared what the Jewish leadership might do to them. They just saw their friend, Jesus brutally murdered and they're afraid. We can understand why they would be afraid.

Peter and John at this point were absent because Luke 24, 12 says that they left after the women told the disciples the tomb was empty, but the rest of the disciples would have been present. This is likely the fifth appearance that Jesus made.

He appeared first to Mary, then the other two women, then the two men on the road to Emmaus, then Peter, then these disciples in this account. So this is the fifth appearance. So as the disciples are sitting there, the rumors that he is alive prove true.

Jesus suddenly appears to them.

Now you'll notice.

That the doors were locked. What we see here is a miracle. Has anybody ever just walked.

Into a room.

When the doors are locked? I know that you haven't. That's what we call a miracle where someone just suddenly appears in a place. Jesus was able to do that. And it tells us something once again about the future glorified body just suddenly appearing in places.

It sounds too good to be true, right? But this actually happened. What Jesus does in verse 20 is show his disciples his hands and his side. OK, so his hands and his side. OK, why is that significant? Because as Jesus hung on the cross, his hands were nailed to the cross.

And what happened to his side? The Roman soldier right at the end, right as he died, pierced his side and all the blood in the water came pouring out. So his hands and his side are pierced. One with a spear and one with nails.

The same man who went to the cross and died is the same man who stood before them. The evidence is there. His hands had nail marks in them. His side had piercing marks in them. What's so interesting is that in the book of Revelation in chapter 5 verse 6, what we read there is that this vision that John had, John the Apostle had, he saw a lamb as though it had been slain.

Is that something? Jesus dies and is raised from the dead, and yet he still has marks in his hands and he still has the spear marks in his side. Why is that? Are we going to still have scars on our body when we are raised from the dead if you know Christ in this room?

The answer is no. Why is it that Jesus has marks in his hands and his side? Here's the reason why I believe. We will always be reminded millennia after millennia in eternity what Jesus did on our behalf.

He went to the cross. He paid the full penalty for our sins. And any time we see him, any time we see his bodily presence before us, we will be reminded Jesus paid it all on our behalf. So we can conclude here that the disciples didn't see a lookalike or as one scholar has said, a twin brother.

They saw the crucified man who was now risen. So understand that Scripture's evidence shows the bodily resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact. And the third reason why is that the eyewitnesses were not mistaken.

They really saw Jesus alive. And here's the fourth and final reason why you and I are to understand from Scripture's evidence that the bodily resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact. And that is this.

The greatest doubters were persuaded. The greatest doubters were persuaded. As we have seen thus far, as different people have seen Jesus, they believed one by one that it really was him. But there was one disciple who had yet to see Jesus.

His name was Thomas. And the well-known title given to him is what? Doubting Thomas. And it comes from the Gospel of John. Thomas wasn't with the other disciples when Jesus appeared. Let's see how Jesus appeared to him in verses 24 and 25.

Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, we have seen the Lord. But he said to them, unless I see his hands, the mark of the nails, and place my finger in the mark of the nails and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.

Okay, so Thomas didn't believe their word that he had risen from the dead. He would only believe if he could see Jesus with his own eyes and feel him. Thomas would get his chance in verses 26 through 29.

Eight days later, his disciples were inside again and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, peace be with you. Then he said to Thomas, put your finger here and see my hands and put out your hand and place it in my side.

Do not disbelieve, but believe. Thomas answered him, my Lord and my God. And Jesus said to him, have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. Okay, so you might say, well, Jesus wasn't present when Thomas said, I'm not going to believe unless I can see the nails in his hands and see the pierced side.

Well, guess what?

Jesus is more than a man. He's also God. He hears everything. And he heard Thomas say this. So the moment he walks into that room, the first task is I'm going to find Thomas and I'm going to tell him that it really is me and that's what happened here.

It took a lot for Thomas to believe. He had to see him, but he eventually did after seeing Jesus. It's interesting too, by the way, it feels like some people have a harder time believing than others. For some people, it's just so simple and they're satisfied.

Other people, they need to see lots and lots of evidence. Thomas is one of those people. He needed to see lots and lots of evidence. He was one of the greatest doubters and yet even he believed. And it's interesting here.

This is a verse here that actually says the deity of Christ, that he's not just a man, he's God. Thomas says to him here, my Lord and my God. Jehovah Witnesses who deny the deity of Christ, they have this verse in their Bible because they have to have it in there.

They would love to take it out if they could, but they can't. So what they say is he said his name in vain. My Lord and my God. No, if you have to say that, just give up your beliefs and just move on and actually believe the truth.

You see the extent that people have to go to believe lies. It's really sad. But here's something very important we need to see in these verses. None of us were there 2 ,000 years ago. What we are doing is we are believing the eyewitness testimony of a number of people, the testimony of the women.

Testimony of Peter and John, the testimony of the two men on the road to Emmaus, the testimony of all the disciples, including Thomas and the testimony as 1st Corinthians 15 says of more than 500 brothers at one time.

So how many eyewitnesses were there of the resurrected Christ? Well, there was over 500, 500 and something. He appeared to many to show I am truly alive. And it was these people who would tell the whole world that Jesus has risen from the dead.

But he says this in verse 29. Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. That's everyone in this room. So if you are a follower of Jesus Christ, if you understand your sin, if you understand that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, if you understand and believe that He has risen from the dead, if you believe this, blessed are you.

God's favor is upon you. You believe. You believe the credible eyewitness testimony of these men and these women. Blessed are you. What an encouragement it is to hear that. These eyewitnesses are trustworthy and we must believe.

And people will ask you, how do you know that He lives? I mean, we can look at evidence, right? We can look at the eyewitness testimony. We've done that this morning. But here's, I love, I love, you know, I'm a guy, I love facts.

I love studying things. You know, the people I admire the most though, the people who don't need those things, because that shows faith. We all need a little bit of evidence to believe. But we, we want faith.

Remember when Jesus was with the centurion? What did he marvel at about the centurion? He marveled at his faith.

Remarkable.

There's a hymnist by the name of Alfred Ackley. 1933, he wrote a hymn called He Lives. And in the chorus, he writes, you ask me how I know He lives? He lives within my heart. And I'm not saying apologetics is a bad thing.

I think apologetics can be used in people's walk with the Lord. But what I am saying is the most powerful testimony as to a changed life is the most convincing evidence there is that people are born again, that Christ really is alive.

Jesus is changing people's lives every single day. And right now, right here in this room, that might be you. For the first time ever, you might actually believe that Jesus died for your sins and He rose from the dead.

And the Lord wants to change you. He wants to give you a new life. He wants to transform you. He wants you to be able to say, how do people know that He lives? He lives within my heart. He has changed me.

And that's the testimony of many in this room. You were once dead in your sins. You were once following the devil. You once belonged to the world. You were once on the fast track to hell. But He saved you.

Yesterday, Brianna and I and the kids were driving on Highway 8 on the way to Forest Lake when a crash happened in front of us. We were about 30 seconds to a minute behind when the crash happened. Two vehicles, maybe you heard this on the news, hit head-on.

And I wasn't sure what to do. We weren't sure what to do, but I said, I'm a pastor, so I'm going to go see if I can help. So I actually went to the site. There was about a dozen of us. A couple people were trapped in the car.

Four people, a mom and three kids. They were less injured, but still injured a little bit. And I got to talk to them for a while and pray with them. But just seeing the shock on their face at what happened.

So why do I share this with you? Because what struck me yesterday, at any moment, your life could be over. At any moment. Because what the lady told me was, it just suddenly happened. Because we all think, I have time.

I just want to live life the way I want right now. And you know, years down the road, then I'll start following Jesus. Then I'll be okay. But right now, I just want to have a good time. That's how people think.

On your way home today, that might happen to you. No, God forbid that happens. But it could. It's within the realm of possibilities. You could die today. But you need Christ. And what comfort it is to know, I was telling this to Brianna, if we would have been a couple cars forward and we were hit, and let's say we died, we would be with the Lord.

We wouldn't have unfinished business.

We would be good.

The lady I talked to yesterday didn't know the Lord. And we should pray for her that she would. Her and her three boys. And I didn't get to talk to the other ones. But it happened so fast. And we need to be ready to meet the Lord.

So, what we have seen this morning, from Scripture's evidence, it shows the bodily resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact. And we've seen four reasons why in this text. Grave robbers didn't take the body.

Women played a prominent role in the events. Eyewitnesses did not see a lookalike. And lastly, even the greatest doubters had to believe. If Jesus isn't raised from the dead, everyone in this room right now is wasting your time.

We don't just come just because it's, we love the tradition and we love the nice building and we love just to get together. We are here to remember what happened 2 ,000 years ago. As Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15, if Christ is not raised from the dead, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.

But as we have seen this morning, he truly has risen from the dead. And because of that, everything changes. And if you don't know Christ, my prayer is that you would believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved today.

If you do know Christ, rejoice at this event. Your very life, your eternal life depends on it. And he has saved you and you celebrate that this day. So with that, we'll close in prayer. Let's bow our heads right now.

Father in heaven, we do thank you for this time we've had to look at your word, to see the reliability of it, Lord. But I also understand, Lord, that nobody truly comes to faith in Christ based on historical evidence or scientific evidence.

People come to faith in Christ because they are deeply grieved over their sins. People realize that they have offended you greatly because of their sins. And they deserve hell because of their sins. And they need a Savior.

And Jesus is that Savior. There is one God and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for sinners. And so he is the payment. He paid it all. And he rose gloriously from the dead.

And my prayer, Lord, is everyone here would believe that. And may we this day celebrate the risen Savior. And it's in his name we pray.

Amen.

One thing we always say at the end of the service is that if you have any questions or comments or prayers, we'd love to hear from you. And myself and Doug is here. Keith and Mark aren't here today.