What are We Conserving? What are we Debating?

Opening Banter and Technical Changes

Greetings and welcome to the dividing line boy. Everything looks different around here every time I leave. It's rich and my wife both. Basically try to wipe out any evidence of my existence while I'm gone.

It's really weird. I come back in here. Everything's moved around. My mouse doesn't work. I've got completely new cameras. That why does an ugly face like this need 4k? I'm thinking 640 by 480 stop that.

Quit playing around with that. Get back to where you work. Don't don't mess. Don't know. No, none of that kind of stuff. In fact, you were tired than that before but anyway. So rich has stuff to play with now.

But yeah, every time I come back everything everything's different and changed the 2023 reform podcast championship. Thing back there, so that's I guess good, but I'm hey, I'm I'm sort of used to having control now.

I don't have a little I don't have any buttons to push or nothing. Yeah, there's there's is that that's that mine right there? Uh-huh, okay so. Well, you could put one in here. Oh Okay, so allegedly I'm being told I'm I'm being told allegedly that next week.

I have to do this on my own. So I have to I have to somehow figure all this stuff out. So it's you might just want to tune in next week just for the laughs. If it even gets posted, you know, because it may not even get recorded or you know.

It reminds me of it for some reason. I was just thinking about Years and years and years and years ago when they first introduced wireless microphones. We tried them at the church. I was at this big huge Southern Baptist Church and The one time we tried them all of a sudden a local country music station popped it on the frequency and We didn't use them again.

I'm sure they did eventually but not Not while I was there anyway. Here we are. Back in Phoenix. I'm not coughing my head off. Thankfully. I think I turned the corner last night. I Would like to thank whoever in prior, Oklahoma Graciously granted to me the gift of Respiratory infection, but I'm hearing everybody these days either has this or the stomach thing.

But have you noticed? The regime hasn't said anything. We don't have any mask mandates and Yet, I would imagine that the mortality rate is pretty much the same for the vast majority of the population.

As it was for kovat which anyways, that's not even I can't even talk about something that where we where are we live-streaming? Yeah, I can't talk about that on Facebook. No, I can't. No, I can't. You know that You're well aware of the fact I can't and no no No.

Until we have Twitter and then who knows how long Twitter's gonna last look eventually it's only gonna be Odyssey. We just we all know what's what's coming. In fact, I posted a video from that Robinson fellow in England talking about all the friends of his and all the Podcasts and organizations there in the UK all of their bank accounts are being canceled and They can't find banks to open an account with.

Because they don't support the narrative chick-fil-a is now going for their ESG score and If you're wondering why all all this is happening other than the judgment of God taking out the United States for its sin.

If you're wondering why all this is happening I Didn't understand it either but I've had a number of smart people direct me to sources demonstrating that it's not the it's not the Tyrants in the Biden regime that are doing this though.

They're allied with the people that are it's people at Blackrock and these huge Conglomerates that control banks and industry and If you want to get You have to have a certain ESG score DEI ESG all this stuff.

To get a decent bank loan to get a decent rate on a bank loan and And people keep saying why would why would these companies just absolutely I mean look at what has happened to Target ten billion dollars in market value gone of a billion dollars a day Bud Light just destroyed why?

Because you can get better loan rates and that ends up making up for all that money. I Mean, I'm no financier. But what what everybody's telling me is that's that's what this is all about is You know just having your place in the corporate world and the people at the top have decided we are going to destroy The United States of America, we're destroy Western culture.

We're gonna destroy Judeo-christian values sexuality humanity. All of it got to go and So we're just use money to do it and we use people's greed to do it. They're the same people destroying farms the same people destroying livestock.

They want us hungry poor and dependent. I can't help but think of just one movie. What was that movie? With Matt Damon in it. Where all the the elites live up on a space station and they have special Medical treatments and then all the rest of stuff and all the rest of the scum live in Township type towns townships from South Africa Soweto and stuff like that back on earth.

That's that's their goal that's what they want and they are accomplishing it it is astonishing at the rate. They they they labored for decades they laid the foundation they prepared the environment educational system the universities.

They they've made it so people think that the first place you turn is to the government the government needs to do this for me the government needs to do that for me and so they you got to give them credit they had their goal and now They're not going to accomplish it in the end they don't realize that what they're doing they do realize it's rebellion against God, but They don't realize that you can't live in the world God created in that way and it's all gonna fall down on top of itself.

But yeah as it may we have to go through the the judgment in the process and so Anyways before we get to other stuff. And get back in that I have with me a little item that I showed From the mobile unit, which is currently in storage and I think it's gonna.

It's gonna be really interesting when I pull that thing back out of storage in just a matter of weeks. We've got a Unfortunately, we're gonna have to take that background down and redo it we're gonna have to pull that and then clean that surface and then use some kind of Pre adhesive something To to do it right, but hey, I got really close.

I It nobody could tell but it's not gonna survive but it can be done and We will we will make it happen and I love it and it's it's great to be able to do that. Anyways, I showed you this and oh Better be careful.

This is our Derek Melton forged I don't know how he would describe this. He had a specific thing, especially for this handle. And I saw what the handle looked like as a block I'm not sure exactly how he does this.

He has this. Well, it's changing he's having a new workshop built but Anyway, it is he said this is the most Amazing Damascus steel that he's he's he's ever forged and It is truly truly gorgeous. It is it's a piece of art With a really nicely made and it clicks right in there.

Travel Fund, Fundraiser Items, and Upcoming Trips

That's why it took me a second to get it out there and sheath and so this was originally for the fundraiser and You all have already been so gracious. We have paid off those things. But so now You know, I sat my my the new RV sat in Derrick's right in front of right in front of I mean literally I was parked I was plugged into the same electrical circuit.

Okay that runs the forge and all the rest that stuff. And so I was right next to the workshop just across the lawn from from the house I got to Have to dodge Sadie their new Puppy who is a puppy and who loves to jump?

But will be a much calmer Australian Shepherd in the future. I'm sure. And their little teeny they got it little teeny tiny kitty that that I fell in love with and fell fell in love with me two years ago a little princess and She's skin and bones now just like my Darth is Skin and bones there.

They're at the end of their end of their run and but it was sweet to see all them. Anyways point being to get back to places like prior we have the travel fund and so The kindly donated items Will be going to the travel fund.

And so I'm not sure. Did we announce what the Bible's final thing was? I think we I think I may have I Yeah, so Very very thankful to those who Made bids toward the Jeffrey Rice rebinding the final on that was $1 ,700 that was really really amazing and Just so thankful to Jeffrey and everybody made that possible.

So when are you gonna when are you gonna put it up? He rich says he can put up to dare tomorrow. The only thing is we have to limit it to the United States. It's a knife. Literally, you can't own this in London it's Astonishing but it's true.

You can't own it in London. Sorry guys, but That's that's the way it is. So we don't want to have to play games with stuff getting hung up in customs and all the rest that kind of stuff. So we're gonna have to limit to the to the US where you can still own a knife at least in most places, maybe we should keep New York City out and San Diego as services go as if anybody there would be bidding on it anyways, but And we'll be putting that up and that'll be going toward the travel fund.

We have Three more trips this one two three more trips this year. The one in July is about 4 ,300 miles 33 days. I have not started booking September yet. I need to but that one takes me all the way back to Pennsylvania Atlanta, that's gonna probably be I estimate around 5 ,300 miles something like that and So Gotta gotta make all that happen.

And so we very much appreciate pastor Melton support and looking forward to There is a little there is a little competition. You know, there are people going Which one's gonna get the biggest biggest a bid?

And If you're familiar with handmade blades and stuff like that. Then then you have some idea what something like this would normally go for and So we'll see what happens from there. So that'll be great.

All right. Watch that'll be on Facebook as we are at the moment. Anyways for now until we're not Because in essence what we're discovering is there is a tiny tiny tiny minority of very loud screechy people Who It only takes one or two complaints and that gets people taken down.

It gets their bank accounts canceled it the cancel culture is amazing as long as you are the victim and It is There's no way for free speech and civilization to continue Under this kind of a regime, but that's that's what we're facing.

Yes, sir. So on the twitch front. Remember twitch, right?

I've tried to forget it so they they've reactivated the account after a 30-day suspension and they can't figure out why we're not coming back and I keep getting emails and I keep sending them emails back and through support and saying hey.

You guys arbitrarily canceled us. You never once gave us an example of how we Violated your community standards yet when you actually read point three on the charge that you make against us it has to do with accusing or attacking a religious organization.

How is it that what you did here was not an attack on a religious organization? You guys are hypocrites. Just delete the account. You can't be depended on you can't be trusted. Goodbye. Yeah, and that's what I'm trying to do with them.

So.

Corporate Censorship, ESG Pressure, and the Coming Loss of Free Speech

Yeah, well that's gonna look this is The kind of secular Totalitarianism that has taken over corporations government Across the Western world. Not so much in Africa. But everywhere else. And Cannot allow for free speech you cannot allow for anyone to think other than The way you're supposed to think according to them.

They lose their minds when anyone has a thought outside of the realm that they Demand that we that we possess and so this is coming for all of us. We were talking more about it in 2021 because we saw all the lockdowns and the VAX stuff and everything else.

It's coming back. We will not escape this. Like I said banking and boy once they've got digital currency. That's it I I don't have the answers as to how we will be able to continue to try to be of encouragement and To discuss important subjects and to get information out there and do research and things like that.

I don't know. I just don't know. You know, there's the dark web and stuff like that, I suppose I don't know about that stuff and most people who really need The ministry we provide don't know about that stuff either and I can guarantee you what will eventually happen is It will be illegal to even try to access such things and Then they'll just put away anybody they want to put away By accusing you of trying to access that and since they probably have access to your computer.

Anyways, they can make it look like you did. That's what mono parties that you know We have all these books that described all this stuff 40 50 years ago and yet we're doing it. Despite the fact that 40 50 years ago people were saying, you know Things keep going this way this could happen and we were we were just like Didn't even see it coming.

So while we still have the opportunity, let's let's talk about the things that are important. Um, I just made a mistake. And I wonder if I can get back to that. Oh good. Nope. I didn't. Oh, is it here?

Okay good. All right a couple things I Need to get to a Catholic answers article that I had never seen until yesterday. I think It was published on my birthday last year by Joe Heschmeier. Who looks about?

Well, I don't think Joe Heschmeier was around when we were doing all the debates with Catholic answers. Let's just put that way. I think he's that young I want to take a look at that Article which again I said just saw it and went.

Oh, okay. There's something we need to respond to before we get to that and the debate threads that developed Without my input or permission. I would I would add Over the past on a week or so a couple things that again I'm hesitant to address it not for any other reason than This particular program could just disappear in the middle of its in the middle of its being broadcast.

Because the topics that we need to talk about again are no longer topics that allow for free speech. But we'll take a shot. And if that means we're Back on Odyssey on Thursday, then that that's what it means but Two things over the past 24 hours.

One was a video of a Charlie Kirk Turning Point USA event. Charlie Kirk has a black male on The stage with him who I guess is a self-professed Homosexual in fact calls himself a gay Christian. I Like I said the video just sort of popped up last evening and a fellow in the audience Basically asks, how can we be defending conservatism?

When we won't hold the line on Marriage homosexuality Transgenderism all of these types of things and At the same time you have that video which Did not turn out. Well, let's just put it that way There really wasn't an answer given other than we just need a big tent and There are other important things to focus upon and we need to have people like this in our movement at the same time Ted Cruz Posted a tweet the nation of Uganda has passed a law criminalizing homosexuality and in fact, including I believe the death penalty for Exacerbated homosexuality or something Whatever term they use and all of a sudden People are having to think about stuff.

But they didn't have to think about again prior to 2020 I would like to ask Ted Cruz What he thinks about Leviticus 18 and 20 and whether The Mosaic Code was horrific and wrong but I'd have to ask that question of pretty much every evangelical across the Western world I Think I could be wrong but I think The answers today would be different in 2023 than they would have been five years ago.

I don't think the vast majority of us had even Given consideration. I had obviously but I don't think the vast majority of evangelicals had even given consideration To the concept and to the relevance of God's law in the modern context.

Most people are probably not aware of the fact that sodomy was a crime in the United States From the beginning The Founding Fathers certainly did not believe it was one of the human rights That have since been discovered in their writings that they didn't know were there at all and that these had been overturned only recently.

American history is not the biggest strength of most Americans. Unfortunately, but the real issue is if we were to honestly ask if we were to honestly ask most Church attending Christians I Way over fizzed my fizzy water today.

I mean It kept overflowing it is Wow. Anyway, if we were to ask Pretty much everybody attending church is coming Sunday about that Ugandan law, I think 99 of People would go that's this date. I agree with Ted Cruz terrible and then if you were to say was living under God's law under Moses a Horrific and wrong thing.

Yeah, you're right aggravated homosexuality Was it was that grotesque and an abomination Really poorly chosen terms there from Senator Cruz. Since that's the term used in Leviticus 18 and 20 of that activity.

What would they say then. Well, that was then this is now. Okay. So the nature of the law That Defined sin so that there was a need for A Propitiatory sacrifice on the cross of Calvary. That law is horrific wrong grotesque and abomination, is that right.

Christians really struggle. When the law was first given, you know, there's a man went out broke the Sabbath law he was stoned and Modern sensibilities That live very very sheltered lives Modern sensibilities Go no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not I'm not gonna accept that.

I can't accept that. I can't go there. I can't do that Without realizing The disjunction that will eventually lead to you unhitching the Old Testament from the New Testament. That's where it goes. There's no way to avoid it.

That's been the process it's I just I can't believe that God would wipe out the Amorites because the idea of the wrath of God against a Horrifically Sinful nation like our own not like we've done anything worse than the Amorites we have.

That's just not. It's not there and that's why your doctrine of atonement Amongst a large portion of Christians is weak sauce. It's It's emotional It It isn't biblical. That's why much of what Hebrews says is just lost on people.

Because it's all based upon that Levitical law that they don't even read anymore because they don't like it it doesn't fit my views. That's that's where we are that's where we are and so It has been well said that There should be no problem passages in the Bible.

Not that there are not passages that are difficult or take a lot of study to understand things like that. But once you understand what it said, it shouldn't be a problem anymore, but that's not where the vast majority of Christians are.

That's where the majority of professing Christians Do believe that they have the right to pass judgment on God's law and God's Word and what God has done the past ago, you know, my God wouldn't do that.

Well, then your God is an idol. Your God is you. I Wouldn't do that. So my God wouldn't do that. So I'm God that's pretty much how it functions. So here's the situation where once again, we have been given the opportunity To think through something to think it through well, and when you saw this When you saw what senator Cruz said.

What was your thought what was your thinking what did you think at that point in time did you go he's missed something here or We've outgrown the Mosaic Code. There's a lot of Christians who believe that.

That we've outgrown the Mosaic Code because they recognize well, you know, it's been fulfilled. Okay, everything is prophetic Ceremonial. That that marked and here's the big one that marked the people of Israel as They were being the people through whom the promise would come.

But you can't get away from the moral content of the Mosaic Code and the fact that the Apostles continued to believe that it was a Fundamental standard you can't get away from that, but people don't like it and We're not gonna have a consistent response.

So let's We think we've thought about that. Okay. Have to think through. Does Uganda have the right to do this as a nation? Then we go to the Charlie Kirk thing now Charlie Kirk's based here in Phoenix.

I've never met the man. I don't know anything about him. Really don't. It's based here in Phoenix and At this point we are we have to once again look at there are those who are saying We need the Big Ten.

We need the numbers. We need to have this movement. To preserve the United States. Okay. And what's gonna be the basis of that preservation? What what United States is going to be preserved? Because What Charlie Kirk may or may not understand is The founding fathers would not have been sitting where he was sitting in that context.

They they would not have accepted The idea of the redefinition of marriage the profaning of marriage the profaning of sexuality the profaning of gender. And by any of that and so what we've done is we've created this this way of thinking Where it's like well We really appreciate the big ideas they had but you know We've we've come up with really better applications and better understandings.

And what we're saying is We have a higher moral plane than they did and what that means that moral plane No longer is based upon mankind as being made in the image of God. And so we have a number of people who are saying well, it's almost June and you just you just you just be ready.

And It is gonna be worse than ever. I Was looking at an email from a company that I do business with and oh my goodness The Pride stuff is Unbelievable it it's it is going to be at a level. We've never seen it before and I talked about this last week and week before that.

And There's no deep temptation, you know but then I look I look around and I go, okay if I Stop doing business with them. Who am I going to do business with they're all doing the same thing they're all doing the same thing and For all the same reasons.

Anybody who stands up and says we're not gonna do this is Just gonna get hammered. They're they're they're gonna be destroyed so What's the answer if if we call ourselves conservatives, what are we conserving what what is there to conserve?

What what has value if? The male-female relationship if the family mother father the biggest problem in our country Is that we think that any man in any woman of almost any age anymore Can have sex just for the fun of it and that's the ultimate good.

There's no such thing as adultery anymore. There's no such thing as fornication anymore. Those are good things. And so What kind of political alliances Can be produced When you can't answer the question, what are we conserving and why is it a value?

So if you've got Charlie Kirk sitting next to a quote-unquote gay Christian, I'd love to talk to this fellow about why? That is an oxymoron. It doesn't work. It's unbiblical. We've addressed it a thousand times and I know that there are Plenty of apostate progressivists out there that will pat you on the back and say oh, yeah.

You're right with Jesus don't worry about any of that Bible stuff. I Know that's why they're there. That's why they're doing what they're doing. That's their whole function in this whole mess. But I'm not interested in conserving that I Can't be interested in conserving that there has to be a foundation.

There has to be a worldview that makes sense that gives guidance To any kind of governmental system and that's the problem with Donald Trump. He doesn't have that worldview either. I'm sorry, all of you who are just massive.

You know you I see you driving down the road by the way. That big old honking Trump flag really destroys your gas mileage. I just thought I'd mention that to you in passing. You know, it's like putting a sail behind.

I don't know what you're losing but you're it's a it's a lot I hate to tell you he doesn't have it either. In fact, especially on this subject. Did you see the thing? He had at Mar-a-Lago only a few months ago?

You know all the log cabin Republicans and all the rest that stuff and What's-her-face here in in Arizona, I'm sorry just lost the name ran for governor should have won. Carrie Lake was there. Carrie Lake was there.

Carrie Lake may end up still being the governor of Arizona the way things are going. Some of the evidence that I did you see the videos? Oh my gosh, I mean if that doesn't get over to Move along. Let's not talk.

That's right. Can't talk about that. If that election doesn't get overturned. No election will ever get overturned if you can have video of the people reprogramming the voting machines. Yeah, and it still doesn't get overturned.

It's done. Just don't even bother with elections. It's it's over with. Here in Maricopa County forget it forget it. If those people don't end up in jail, just just don't even I'm not gonna bother that.

There's there's no reason to. Anyway, Carrie Lake was there and he doesn't have this worldview. Ted Cruz doesn't have that worldview and I thought of all people he might but he doesn't. He doesn't. Um, what are we conserving that's the question that's the question.

We are called to be faithful. Even in the midst of judgment and that's the big issue right now. You got the the young wild-eyed Christian nationalists over on this side that are thinking that they're Um 5 ,000 people across the United States are going to rush in and and save everything.

Then you've got serious thinkers. Who are trying to say? This is all going to come apart. It's gonna fall apart excuse me, it is gonna crash and burn and Something has to rise from the ashes now we know That the Chinese and the WF and the WHO and Blackrock and they have a vision of what they want to see rising from the ashes, but the problem is What they want to see Requires the fundamental negation of God's creative decree.

It can't last. There's no foundation. It has to be the only foundation is pure force and The Soviets managed that for 70 years and with technology they may double or triple that I can see that happening.

But it can't last. It will come apart and What do you do then? What do you do then? That's the issue. It was very disappointing to see that video and A lot of people being put in a position where they feel like they're between a rock and a hard place.

I get that but the fact is the only answer that we have is summed up far too simply. But it is summed up in the phrase. It's Christ or chaos and Here's the chaos. The chaos is all around us so What do we look are we gonna try to build a a lean to in the middle of the hurricane of chaos.

No, you got to have a solid foundation and Conservatives don't understand people who are conservatives politically, but not because of the lordship of Christ. Don't understand. They look at us ago. You don't get it.

We have to have the votes and We go votes don't change hearts. What are you trying to conserve and. So anyway, there's there's that all right. Wow, it's 1040 how'd that happen. There's a really high chance I'm not gonna get through all this but we can try.

I Don't know who Joe Heschmeyer is but he Wrote for Catholic answers last December and The white question what James White gets wrong about Jews and the Bible, okay. How did the believing Jewish person know that Isaiah and 2nd Chronicles or scripture.

50 years for Christ. That's the question that the Protestant apologist James White asked of his then Catholic opponent Jerry Matitick's, I'm really surprised they even used Jerry Matitick's in the even mentioned his name.

Then Catholic opponent Jerry Matitick's who of course was Working at Catholic answers until. Was it 92? I Forget when he left. Might have been he may have still been there. I Think yes, I think so even though they recommended Rich asked he was out by the time we debated him in in Denver.

Was that 93? But the weird thing is It was Catholic answers that suggested Jerry for that debate because they were doing a debate there. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know anyway in a 1993 radio debate and for the next 29 years.

He's repeated this question even dubbing it the white question after himself. No, my friend you are wrong Catholic answers gets. I don't know why it is. But you know when they did the the hit piece on my CRI article in the 90s.

Just not accurate in their information, and I don't know why it is. You can take some guesses but anyway I Did not dub it that at all. I don't remember who it was it was on a it was either a Interview that was being done With st. Joseph's Catholic communications or it was something Tim Staples did.

But I was listening because someone had said you listen to this and this was this was back it I was using a cassette tape recording and. You know what. Do you have a quick splash screen? Yeah, I do did you just pop it up real fast give me give me just a second sure.

We'll be right back. Hold on. All right. Sorry about that.

Some things just can't wait. I was listening on a cassette tape recording of One of those two sources it may have been a college in fact now I think about it it was a call-in show and It was the Roman Catholics that called it the white question and I heard it twice.

Two different shows may have been two different people. So I did not Name it. I did not name it after myself somebody else did and So there is that correction? According to white Roman Catholics don't have an answer for it.

Well, I would agree that's case because Jerry did not have an answer for it and And in the weeks and months afterwards One guy suggested that the only way was to use the Urim and the Thummim the sacred dice.

Is the second Chronicle Scriptures, you know that type of thing? The other answers were the Jewish Magisterium Which doesn't work because in Fact that was the other thing. I was gonna I I knew I'd forgotten something.

I was gonna grab it, but Hold it up. Because as has been demonstrated in the Old Testament Canon the New Testament Church, which is a book That should have had like 14 footnotes in this article, but was never mentioned once by Roger Beckwith as he demonstrated conclusively The Jewish Magisterium did not accept what Rome? has defined Fifteen hundred and forty six years after Christ As the Canon of the Old Testament.

So if that Magisterium was infallible then the Roman Magisterium is not for obvious reasons you can't have one contradicting the other and so The answers that have been offered Simply have been self-contradictory.

Because the recognition of Canon over time has been a messy process and There have been disagreements down through history and Especially on the issue of the Apocryphal books that New Testament stuff not so much.

Really you you you don't have that but of course New Testament is a smaller Smaller body of documents than the Old Testament is the New Testament is written in a much shorter time period and There's a lot of differences in how the New Testament is transmitted over the Old Testament but The fact is and here is here.

It's a fact that was not dealt with in this article at all. You had two traditions That can be easily traced in church history. You have a tradition represented by someone like Augustine who accepts the canonical status of the Apocryphal books the deuterocanonicals as they're called by Roman Catholics and Does so basically Upon the acceptance of the Septuagint as a whole and the form of the Septuagint that they experienced that they the manuscripts that they had access to and Then you have a tradition That is made up of the people that knew the most about the Old Testament and the Hebrew language.

There really is a distinction When you look at the people who actually learned Hebrew Interacted with Jews learned Hebrew from Jews. When you look at a Melito of Sardis When you when you look at Jerome They recognize That the Jews did not accept These books as scripture and since the oracles of God were entrusted to the people of Israel Romans chapter 3 Then that was definitive for them and This continues on this is represented by Pope Gregory the Great who plainly said that the Book of Maccabees were not canonical.

This was the Pope in Rome all the way through to Cardinal Jimenez who interviewed Luther at the time of the Reformation. Who in his commentaries likewise said? That the Apocryphal books were not to be considered canonical scripture.

And primarily because he was representing Jerome's perspective. So you have Two parallel traditions the less informed and the more informed you come to the Council of Trent and The Trent is a and Trent is a reactionary Council it is reacting against the Protestant Reformation and because of the Incredibly weak References in Maccabees that are they're taken as being Supportive purgatory.

They're not. They had idols on their bodies for crying out loud. It was not it was not venial sin and mortal sin. It's just amazing at How far you've got a stretch? Someone gave me a stretch Armstrong.

I forgot to bring it in. It's actually out in the kitchen. Someone while I was traveling gave me a stretch Armstrong to use for when you're stretching the truth but because of that a group of people and I would say 99 .9995 of the human race has no earthly idea who all the bishops at Trent were or why they Should all of a sudden be granted the final access To God's mind when it comes to Scripture because if you're Roman Catholic Trent Dogmatically defined the canon for you and you see The issue here is that especially back in the 90s, especially back when I was debating Jerry Maddux on this subject I've told the story before but when Jerry and I had talked about the two subjects we were gonna do we decided to justification and the Apocrypha and And We sort of jokingly said wow, I hope we can I Hope we can be heard over the snoring.

I Think was the actual joke that was that was being that we were bantering back and forth I hope we can we can hear over those the snoring. When we when we do the Apocrypha debate, that's not how it turned out.

The Apocrypha debate was considerably more Contested and If there is a description then the justification debate was and when we got to the end I When I got to my final closing statement, I I said, I hope that what you understand you you've heard here this evening is Jerry's argument is The Apocrypha is Scripture because we say so and we're right and You know when you think about it when you think about what Trent Horne said in That post debate thing that he did a few months ago after the soul scripture debate with Gavin Ortlund That's basically what he said, too.

This is the only thing that's worth debating is this subject because if we're right, we're right. There's no reason to debate The Apocrypha, we're right. We're the church. We tell you what to believe Sola Ecclesia, it's Sola Ecclesia versus Sola Scriptura.

That's all it is and There is a sense in which when you're talking about ultimate authorities, that's yeah, that's what it boils down to but of course our perspective is God's revelation is true over history, so You know If Roman Catholicism is gonna say well the Pope has always been the infallible Vicar of Christ.

You might be able to demonstrate that through history, but you can't you know, you can't You know that flies in the face of everything that took place in church history. But You know, I keep reminding everybody When John Paul II was still alive he put out a a Statement that was very clearly in in contradiction To what have been said by in Unum Sanctum Long long ago by previous Pope obviously.

And when I point out the contrast it was Bobson Janus who said you don't have the right to interpret what the church has said In the past only the church has the right to interpret what the church has said in the past so It's a vicious circle.