Basic Training for Sharing the Trinity and Listening for Presuppositions

1 Peter and the Call to Defend the Faith

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation if you'd like to talk with dr. White call now.

It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight six six eight five four six seven six three and now with today's topic. Here is James white. And good afternoon.

Welcome to the dividing line. My name is James white. We are live today. Right here in Phoenix, Arizona. I'm not off in some distant part of the nation a couple weeks ago. We were in Lynchburg, Virginia when we did the program then last week.

You couldn't quite sneak it in when we were in the beautiful city of Nashville, Tennessee. Ministering there was Steve camp and that was a wonderful time and looking forward to chance getting back there again hopefully in the spring of next year, in fact and Just couldn't quite fit in that the time difference of the time difference had actually switched the day.

Before we would have been able to to work it in but we weren't able to do that. So Live at eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three today watching an interesting conversation the chat channel we have an atheist attempting to Utilize his God-given abilities to think to demonstrate that the God who gave him those abilities to think does not exist.

I always find. And it very interesting and fascinating to watch folks to watch pots Utilizing flowery language to say that the Potter does not exist. We were just told that I'm just scrolling up here that A cause can't logically necessitate its effect so I guess That's starts the presupposition that there can be no self-existent being.

So that's how you do it. You start with presuppositions to say God can't exist and voila. God can't exist. Isn't it? Wonderful. Well, it is. Oh, I have one of these. Let me try it again. Much better cough the cough button still works and unfortunately We're gonna have to utilize it some today.

I apologize for any disappearances of the Discussion at that particular point in time, but it's better than hearing me Coughing at you today. I invite your participation at eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three eight six six eight five four Sixty seven sixty three today.

We're gonna do a little basic training a little basic training in Giving an answer for the hope that's within us and specifically in regards to the doctrine of the Trinity. This is a subject that we discuss fairly regularly over the course of the year and we've done it on the radio program before.

But more than ever Christians are being called upon to give an answer for the hope that's within them and Not only do you have to give an answer to the Jehovah's Witnesses? We saw some out this morning.

In fact as we were driving around saw some in didn't come by our house anyways but in this particular neighborhood and So they're out there but now there is a considerably more Reason to be involved in understanding that doctrine and in giving an answer for that truth.

Because of the fact that we now have the Islamic invasion and I think that's a good way of describing it it is an invasion of discussion of Islam, but it is very rarely from a position of truth and I think it says a lot for the fact that That liberal Educational institutions Seemingly have no problem Being very very kind to Muhammad very very kind to Islam in general The standards applied to Islam is very very very different Concern then then the standard is applied to Christianity.

Even though from a liberal perspective for example Christianity Was very much involved in in the liberation of of women Whereas Islam today as you can see in the Taliban Very very anti woman very much viewing the woman as a secondary person and yet still we find all sorts of Books out there that are very Positive toward Islam and the PBS special that everyone's been talking about, you know every great invention and under the Sun came about because of the The rise of Islam, it's just a truly amazing so there are very few responses to Islam That come from a Christian perspective very few Responses that allow for the existence of absolute truth and so Christians simply need to be ready to give an answer.

Islamic apologists are very very prepared to attack the Christian faith primarily in two areas that is the consistency of the gospel accounts the consistency and integrity of the text of Scripture And on the doctrine of the Trinity so where we got the Bible and why we can trust it and the doctrine of the Trinity are the two areas that Islamic apologists will approach and Of course if we want to gain a hearing for the presentation of the gospel to them Then we need to deal with those areas where those individuals have been given false information about the reliability of the Scripture and false information about the scriptural teaching about who Jesus Christ is and so To be prepared to do all of that type of thing we're gonna do a little basic training today in defending the doctrine of the Trinity and Especially I think one of the main things that people miss and that is that listening carefully to the character of the questions that are asked and hearing the assumptions that are behind the Objections that are placed against the doctrine of the Trinity.

I think honestly if people could simply learn the skill of listening with discernment and Listening with attention to detail hearing what is being assumed by those who are Objecting to the doctrine of the Trinity or really to any element of Christian truth this is true no matter what we're dealing with if people could just learn to hear questions and Immediately see the presuppositions and assumptions that lie at the base of what is being said They would find themselves in a much better position To present the truth and to defend the truth and to do so Effectively and so what we'd like to do today is that just remind us of some some very basic fundamental issues in regards to the doctrine of the Trinity where we can go in scripture to present these things and Then the dealing with objections as they come up.

Recognizing how certain groups even though they may have very very different final conclusions Will very often utilize the same kind of errant Arguments. I've mentioned that for example back in 1999 when I debated Hamza Abdul Malik on the deity of Christ in the New Testament his fundamental conclusions and arguments were the same as Dr.. Robert Sabin who I debated two days later.

Even though dr. Sabin is a oneness Pentecostal and believes that Jesus Christ is God in human flesh. Of course two persons a father and the son they both ended up making however the same Assertion the same argument and that is that we must in essence begin with a Unitarian Presupposition that we in essence need to presuppose Unitarianism that when the Bible says God is one that that precludes a oneness.

That precludes believing that God is one and being but multiple in persons. The three divine persons instead from their perspective you have to start from the beginning of Genesis and assume absolute Unitarianism.

Here you have two people attempting to prove completely different things and the result of that then Is they still however use the same type of argumentation so for the vast majority of people who are involved in doing?

Apologetics if we could simply learn to hear what people are saying. And part of that requires you to short-circuit that part. That part of the automatic response mechanism in our minds that when we get into a dialogue we get into an Argument of you know let's go ahead and use that term sometimes.

They're good arguments, and sometimes they're not good arguments, but we're in the midst of an argument. There is a debate going on. We need to short-circuit that part of our mind. That in essence tells us that we have to say a word within a certain period of time.

That we have to immediately give a response. We need to allow ourself to have enough time To hear the entirety of the statement. We need to be quick to hear slow to speak. That's a biblical biblical paradigm in fact from the wisdom literature and We need to be that way so that we can hear not only what the person is saying we shouldn't jump to two conclusions however.

Beyond just hearing what they're saying. Even when you understand what their objection is there needs to be a second level of understanding and that is. What we want to work toward is Having an understanding of what they believe why they believe it and most importantly Where the errors in their belief system are giving rise to the objections to Divine truths and now the most obvious here is when dealing with those who object to the doctrine of the Trinity and leaving off for the moment.

The the the Mormons and their problems with monotheism. Dealing primarily with subordination is those who would attempt to say to us That the Son Jesus Christ Is less than the Father that he is a created being.

When the Muslims will say that he is but an apostle a prophet when Jehovah's Witnesses will say that he is merely Michael the Archangel The greatest of all of God's creations the one through whom all of the things were made etc. Etc the vast majority of the objections that are Presented by individuals coming from that perspective are based upon a a priori assumption of Unitarianism.

They may not say that they may not just say well. I'm going to assume Unitarianism of course, but the arguments and You might have to actually peel back two three four layers till you get to the bottom layer but the argument is only coherent and only has force if you start with the assumption of the truth of Unitarianism now, what do I mean by Unitarianism?

Well the assertion that the oneness of God. That the scripture very clearly says God is one that the oneness of God is a oneness not only of Ontology that is in his being. But that it is also a oneness of person.

So that when we confess that God is one we are saying that he is one being and one person. Well, of course, what really is the debate? And when we talk about Unitarians versus Trinitarians. Well, that is the debate is God one in being.

Both sides agree is God one in person. No one side aside says that he's trying in person. It says he's one in person. So if you assume Unitarianism from the start if you if you say it is impossible For there to be any other Means of God's existence other than Unitarianism and then based your arguments upon that you are arguing in a circle.

You are arguing in an irrational form. You're assuming the conclusion of The debate before the debate has actually begun. Now, let me give you an example. And this is probably again. I would say that the single most common objection.

That that Christians really really struggle with. I mean when you hear The objection being made in in radio call-in programs when you listen to Christians as they're relating Apologetic encounters that they had here's here's the tough issue that they they struggle with.

You can from many different perspectives Demonstrate the differences that exist between the father and the son. I Mean, let's just think of the few of a few passages that we could go to. The father sends the son the son says he can do nothing outside of what he sees the father doing.

Jesus speaks of how The father is his God and he prays to the father and even after the resurrection there are references like Ephesians 117 they refer to the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ and You have the resurrection narratives and I am ascending to my God and to your God.

Etc. Etc. You have All these distinctions that are made between the father and the son and the distinctions go the other direction as well. It is not the father who has experienced Human existence who has experienced what it means to be One who is inside the creation who becomes tired.

For example, we see in in Mark chapter 4 in the Situation mark chapter 5 in the situation with Jesus asleep on the on the cushion in the boat. Even during the midst of the storm he's exhausted from a long day of teaching the father has never Experienced that kind of thing again.

We can go to passage after passage after passage after passage that demonstrates the differences between the father and the son. So many objections are simply raised upon the basis of saying well since the father is God and He's other than the son then Jesus can't be God.

Now that's both a confusion of the idea that we are. You know many of these groups will try to say that we're trying to make Jesus the father. And even when we clearly differentiate even when we clearly say no, we are not making Jesus the father.

We are not modalist even when we separate ourselves net people still do that. But there's a there's a lower level of Presupposition in the objection that's being presented that we need to get to and That is when you start peeling back these objections that say well if there's any difference between The father and the son and the father only can be God.

Why? Because of Unitarianism if the father alone is God and he must be because God is Unitarian then since there are differences between the father and the son. The result then is the son has to be less than the father and cannot truly be deity.

This type of Unitarianism is Absolutely at the root of objection after objection after objection that is thrown out Against the doctrine of the Trinity and since so few people were are really capable of giving a meaningful definition of the doctrine of the Trinity and Of what the debate is actually about very rarely do people actually Get into these things and and deal with them in the way that they that they need to be Dealt with and so keeping that in mind it is it is Really important that when you get into these conversations that you listen to what the person is saying vast majority now, of course, there's a You know, there's probably Jehovah's Witnesses listening right now.

And I don't see any lights blinking, but they've certainly called in the past. And you know, they throw out this objection that objection and in all these things there are people like that who who've heard it all before and despite seeing all of the material that's right there in front of them have tried to find ways around everything because they have a Ultimate authority in the watchtower Bible and track society and that's what they're attempting to do.

However, the vast majority of folks with whom you're speaking Have simply heard these objections repeated over and over again and they've never heard a good response and They're simply shocked when they encounter a good response.

So we want to give them that good response and you talk to anyone who has been a part of the watchtower Bible and track society for for many years and you'll discover that In many of their cases when they left the society one of the things that got them thinking Was someone took the time to give them a clear answer that that that that did answer the common objections they found they ran some thinking Christians who were prepared and That's that's some giving an answer.

That is glorifying to God it's an answer that's that is seasoned with grace so on and so forth and That will be very very useful apologize for all the cough buttons and thank you for the water so Preparing to defend the doctrine of Trinity you need to know your audience you need to know who you're talking to.

It's one of the things that drives me Batty in the chat room is when people will come in and they'll throw out objections, but they won't honestly answer questions about where they're coming from. These people who want to be secret and secretive in What they're saying it just drives me nuts.

Tell me where you're coming from. Tell me who you are. Be honest about it. Don't beat around the bush so that we know what your presuppositions are and so that we can Apply the same standards to your presuppositions that you want to apply to the position that's being examined.

Many Christians will allow the other side to force them solely on the defensive instead of Applying the very same standards to the other position that they want to apply to the Christian position. We can't allow that to happen.

And so there isn't a need to know your audience to ask questions. And one of the reasons that I've found that some people don't actually want to ask questions is because they sort of feel like well If I give them any time at all Almost if I give them any any Minutes to say anything.

Then I'm somehow allowing error to be promoted or whatever and that just doesn't work. If you don't know where the person is coming from you've got to find out first. You can't engage a battle when you don't know where the enemy is.

And so asking questions finding out where somebody's coming from is not Compromising or some have actually had people that felt they were sort of compromising if they allowed For for the other person to be saying more than they were saying.

I've just got to get my my point in now find out where they're coming from as clearly as you can and then once you have the the a Good bead shall we say on exactly what the background is where it's coming from as best you can.

Sometimes people either are not Forthcoming or they're not really overly certain themselves. I've talked to some very confused people That had almost every element of religious belief in their background someplace.

Which can lead to an incredible amount of confusion truly an incredible amount of confusion. But try to find out where they're coming from. Then once you have at least a decent bead on that Then and you notice all this is incumbent upon the Christian to do what I'm saying is Christian.

You have to take the initiative here. You have to do the extra work. They're not gonna do it. You've got to do it if you're gonna make communication take place. You've got to go the extra mile you've got to put out the extra amount of mental energy.

So once you have that basic concept down Then what you need to do is you need to know the doctrine of the Trinity so well that you Really on the fly in essence Recognize what elements of the Trinity will be objected to by this person if they haven't already stayed their objections and Why?

Why will a person coming from this perspective object to the doctrine the Trinity what elements of the doctrine are they going to object to and Why are they going to object to these elements of the doctrine so that you can then create a plan in your mind?

To communicate as Clearly as possible to them those divine truths from the pages of the scripture. I'm a firm believer in allowing the Word of God to have its way and its work in the hearts and minds of men and women and so.

Once you have an idea where they're coming from then you consider the doctrine and so obviously if you're talking to a Mormon and You discover let's say this person's just been influenced by Mormonism.

They're raised in it. They're really not committed to it now, but they've got some questions about the Trinity well. What is what's the most logical assumption you can make in regards to where their objections are gonna be coming from well?

Probably from their Mormon background. Well. What is Mormonism believe. Mormonism believes in a plurality of gods. What's the fundamental? Problem in in Mormonism is that they've got the wrong God. They don't recognize There's one true and eternal God and so you are gonna recognize.

They're certainly gonna believe in the existence of the Father Son and Spirit is separate and distinct persons but they're going to anthropomorphize them turn them into exalted humans in essence and The divine unity is gonna be destroyed.

So what are you gonna be trying to communicate? You're gonna be trying to communicate the truth of the biblical teaching that there is one true God that he is eternal that his being is unlimited and therefore can be shared by three divine persons and so.

Then you go beyond that and I guess what I'm doing here is sort of giving you how I think when I'm standing on a street Corner talking with someone or or on a radio program when someone calls in and it's not a long process of thought.

But it just simply It just simply takes place. I think you learn how to do it over time. The next thing you think about is alright. I need both positive verses that I'm going to present and If I'm going to present for example verses out of anywhere from Isaiah 40 to 48 in defense of monotheism.

With a person the Mormon background I'm gonna want to present to them the context of Isaiah 40 through 48 the trial the false gods. I'm gonna want to give them a a a ground upon which to stand realizing that for the vast majority of people I'm talking to Isaiah 40 through 48 means nothing they don't know about the context.

They don't know about the background and if you can in a knowledgeable fashion talk about the trial the false gods here God demonstrates The true characteristics that are his over against the false characteristics of idols.

These are the things that make him unique that set him apart, etc. Etc. That helps a person to place your verses in a context simply quoting verses out of context. Probably from books that many of these people have never even read before in their lives is not really gonna be communicating a whole lot and in fact frequently causes an increase in the Emotional temperature of the conversation shall we say and so when I talk that person I'm first of all, okay.

Where am I gonna go? What positive verses am I gonna use and and here's another key? How can I work into my presentation to this person some of the most commonly misunderstood verses and How can I use them to actually communicate the truth?

By going to them before they use them establishing the proper context and Then Utilize having gone there a verse that they probably do know. Providing the context utilizing it and presenting the truth that then has even more force in Helping them to understand What the what the issues are really all about now that becomes even more that becomes even more of a challenge.

When we move into the other areas of the Doctrine of the Trinity for one really simple reason because we don't have a solid understanding of Those other elements of the Doctrine the Trinity specifically the existence of the three divine persons and the Equality of those persons and especially that first point the existence three divine persons very few evangelicals today sadly Really prepared to give a meaningful defense of that of that belief.

And so as we do a little boot camp a little basic training, we'll move to that next point here on the dividing line eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three is the number for you to call with your questions and we'll be right back and Welcome back to the dividing line.

My name is James white. We are talking about the Doctrine of the Trinity today. And we're looking at how to present its and how to defend it and we're taking your calls at eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three and Let's go ahead and take our first caller and talk with Jason.

Hello, Jason.

Yeah, my question was in terms of the Trinity and ecumenism. The gospel. I would probably share with you that the Trinity really is a central doctrine in terms of Ecumenism and it does kind of bring up an interesting point as to If it is an essential part of the gospel.

How is that explicable in the Old Testament if we were challenged upon that? Did the Old Testament Saints have a working understanding of the Trinity? And if they didn't how is it that we share the gospel with them as.

Old well, of course the Doctrine of the Trinity is a part of the progressive revelation of God. And I would not say out there. I know there are some who who do say that's a Old Testament. Saints somehow had a knowledge of the Trinity.

I don't know how a person would go about Demonstrating that from Scripture at least on any meaningful exegetical basis anyways but I believe the Doctrine of the Trinity is revealed in the coming of Jesus Christ and in the ministry of Christ and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, so.

If that is the fundamental revelation of the Doctrine of the Trinity then it is progressive. Obviously it took place after the Revelation of the Old Testament and and therefore while it is constituent to the gospel of Jesus Christ in its proclamation today because of that revelation.

It is a it is progressive in its revelation. So we can't have partnership with someone who denies those revealed truths today. But there was a time when not every element of those revealed truths had in fact been revealed so I Not sure exactly how that relates to Old Testament Saints.

I think they lived prior to the revelation of the Doctrine of the Trinity in the person of Christ. I don't think that for example the use of the terms father or or For example father in Isaiah 9 7 is a Trinitarian name there because it's a reference to the Sun.

It's in reference to creation there those We can we can with New Testament eyes see consistent passages to the Doctrine of the Trinity in the Old Testament, but I have a hard time saying that A person can sit down with the Old Testament and and come up with a dogmatic doctrine of the of the Trinity.

Merely upon that when in point of fact the scriptures themselves Refer us to the coming of Christ as as being the one who has revealed the father. And I mean if you could come up with the whole doctrine the Trinity out of the Old Testament.

Then what what did Christ's coming and? What did that reveal about the father? I guess you wouldn't be able to have anything that could be revealed in the coming of Christ. But I really think that there was so I don't see that that that's really the issue at that particular point.

And we do have to deal with with Jews Old Old Testament Jews in the sense of those who continue to reject the Messiah and the deity of Christ we need to deal with with what they What they have to say they like to attack the doctrine of the Trinity the deity of Christ and use the very same type of Unitarian assumptions that Muslims and others do.

But obviously you would you would not accept someone as being a Genuine Christ should be a believer and reject the doctrine of the Trinity today, right right. Mm-hmm, okay? And that would be based upon the fact that has now been Early right kind of the line in essence.

Well in essence. I mean they are they are basically Saying.

That they they will. Well in essence calling God a liar that he has given testimony to Jesus Christ and it is a rejection of the revealed truth of God and. So yeah most definitely, but I think since it is a progressive revelation that we need to keep that in mind as well.

Okay, okay. I think that's good. Thank you for calling sir. Thank you. All right. God bless Mike. Eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three. I can pretty much guarantee that if you call in That we'll actually be able to get you right on this time so give us a call eight six six eight five four six seven Six three on the subject of the Trinity today.

And that would include those of you hiding out there in the shadows who I think listen every once in a while Just simply to find out if we're going to address these issues. And you have your little pet pet passages that might be somewhat somewhat Indicative as well.

It might be very useful. So anyways, we had been talking about the subject of the second point of the Doctrine of the Trinity the second foundation of the Doctrine of the Trinity and that is the existence of three divine persons and It is that particular issue that is Is most Difficult for Christians to deal with shall we say on the fly or even in depth For that matter.

It is simply difficult for Christians to be able to dig through the use of human language and Get past the fact that when we talk about divine persons for most people that turns into tritheism that turns into an existence of three separate gods or It ends up turning into modalism ends up turning into the idea.

That's The father is just acting like the son or acting like the spirit. But there's not actually any true communication or communion between the divine persons what we need to deal with in the biblical Categories in the biblical language is the fact that we clearly have taught in Scripture That there is only one true God.

We clearly have presented to us three Persons who are distinguished from one another. They are distinguished from one another by their conversations with one another by their functions by their attributes by their roles in salvation, they are distinguished by many many different means and Yet we are also presented with the full deity of Of the Sun the pull full personhood and deity of the Holy Spirit as well and That is the the biblical material and some people would say well, that's contradictory you can't have three divine persons and Yet only one true God that's a you got to have one God or three gods but you can't have this other and of course that is the assumption again of Unitarianism that is the assumption that well, I can only have a God who is a Unitarian God I won't accept a God who is Trinitarian in his existence.

That's the the the problem with presuppositions that I was referring to before. So when we get to this particular issue we we need to have a very clear concept in our own mind of How the three persons are related to one another we need to have banished all Semblances of modalism from our mind, which means we shouldn't be sitting around reading any TD Jake's books we shouldn't be in a situation where we are listening to that channel between 20 and 22 very often because those folks don't know what in the world they're talking about and We should have a clear definition of what the doctrine is in our mind and we should know where the Bible Presents these particular truths to us.

And again, that's the type of thing you just when was the last time you heard a sermon on On how John chapter 5 demonstrates the difference between The father and the son and yet the perfect unity that exists between them and the accomplishment of salvation and and All the rest that kind of said when it was last time you heard a discussion of Acts 20 28 or the description of Jesus says they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

And how this is relevant to the fact that he is one person with two natures. And that's just not the kind of stuff that you encounter on a regular basis in most evangelical churches today so as a result of that there is a general confusion on the part of many people on that very subject and so if we're confused about something it's gonna be difficult for us to then explain it to someone else and If we're confused about what the specific doctrine is that we're talking about.

It's gonna be very difficult for us to go to the scriptures and and rightfully use them and Then it becomes very easy for the person who is objecting To the doctrine of the Trinity to confuse us and to very often get us to defend That which we don't actually believe in the first place.

And so when it comes this particular issue When you kind of comes to this subject of the relationship of the Father the Son the Spirit. While there is literally chapter after chapter after chapter of meaningful biblical Argumentation to be presented our own confusions keep us from doing it in a meaningful way.

And so really at this point, it's just a matter of knowing what we believe and knowing why we believe it. Knowing where for example in Matthew chapter 3 you have the clear distinction at the baptism of Jesus Between the Father and the Son and the Spirit and Remember a lot of people honestly think that's an objection to the Trinity they believe that it's an objection to what we believe and when they hear you bring it up and You presenting it as being consistent with what you believe.

That can actually put them in a defensive position of saying well, wait a minute. How can you say that? How can that be consistent with what you're saying? That can then help you to say well, it seems you you've got some misunderstandings about what I believe may I explain this to you and That puts that can put take out a lot of them the heat the emotion In the conversation that can keep it in a in a respectful context and that can be very very very useful To to have that take place in that way again.

I'm not I'm not saying when I say useful I'm not trying to be just utilitarian here. But look the fact matter is we all know that you can You can talk to your wife About something that you want the family to do in a multiple in multiple different ways.

You can just tell her honey. I've decided we're doing this and that's generally not the best way to do it. Or you can you know, you can tell her over a romantic dinner. Generally, it's not good to tell her while handing her a vacuum cleaner, you know, there's just obviously just basic.

You know human interaction things to go along there and there's nothing wrong. You know recognizing that there are there are good ways of explaining the truth and there are bad ways to explain the truth.

I guess most of it Really is just getting out of the way getting our personalities out of the way getting our Quirks out of the way our insufficiencies out of the way and allowing the scriptures themselves to speak.

And so when we're when we're doing this when I talk about useful things I'm not not trying to say that we should be using tricks or something. What I'm saying is there is a ineffective way of speaking the truth and then there are ineffective ways of speaking the truth as well.

All right. Let's um eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three. We have another caller online. This caller is a is a pro. This caller should be very easy to get through and so let's try Mr. In-N-Out burger from California.

How are you James? I'm doing just fine cool, cool.

I guess I could say bothered me because I really have never been able to put it together in a way that would satisfy me. And it's been brought up to me by even a Jehovah's Witness. That was really the first religion.

I started to study. And it's the passage in 1st Corinthians chapter 15. Mm-hmm. I don't remember exactly 1528 1528. Okay, that's the one and it says and when all things are subjected to him Then the son himself also will be subject to the one who is who subjected all things to him that God may be all in all.

In reading in understanding the doctrine of the Trinity. I've always understood that in Jesus is divine nature Jesus is equal to the Father, but is Second to him in his order of you know, he's begotten and sent by the Father and the Holy Spirit and so forth.

But it almost seems here. Let me correct. Just one thing there lest someone trip me up. He's not sent by the Father and Holy Spirit the Father and the Son.

Right. Yeah, I mean that the son is sent by the Father and the Holy Spirit proceeds, right? And and You know, there's all there's this equality in their eternity. And of course, I look at a Hebrews chapter 1 verse 8 where it says that your throne Oh God is forever and ever and you rule, you know for all eternity but right here it says that the son's gonna subject himself and then It also says that the son will hand the kingdom back to the father and so that God may be all in all.

Hand the kingdom back to the father. The text here says when all things are subjected to him Then the son himself also will be subjected the one who subject all things to him so that God may be all in all.