Cultic Forms of KJVOnlyism

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 973 4602 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 -877 -753 -3341. And now with today's topic here is James White.

And welcome to the dividing line on a Tuesday morning barely barely got the program Started today and it's not because of he behind the board who is neither the probe nor the pro. He's just the Cowboys fan but That's not your I think the term now is noob noob newbie newbie and a newbie anyway, I You know, your host is not the brightest bulb in the pack.

I Don't know I We had a funny incident for Christmas I I was for I preached Sunday morning. Some of you have said nice kind things about the Sermon that I did Sunday morning. I do not consider myself much of a preacher, but I Worked hard on that one.

And hopefully it was a blessing to some folks. But anyway and then we got back to the house and then the whole family shows up and So I'm not gonna wear my suit and a tie While trying to get a turkey out of the oven and stuff like that.

So I decided to wear A shirt that had been given to me by some some kind folks. There's a few folks out there that have dug around and found my personal wish list on Amazon and they encouraged me by sniping things off that wish list and one of them was this real nice plaid purplish Oakley shirt and So I said that that's what I'm gonna wear for Christmas.

I'm gonna wear that so I Had that on and so, you know, we did the turkey the turkey turned out pretty well. We're getting better it's taking practice, but we're getting better. The daughter was was dancing in the kitchen, which means we got really close to the the right stuff.

But anyway and So we're sitting there doing the gifts and I put a lot of effort into this stuff. I had a theme going and all the rest of stuff. Anyway, I get this present and I can tell it's a shirt. I mean you can tell it's a shirt.

You know, it's it wasn't in a box or anything. So you could feel it, you know, it gives you know, it's a shirt Open it up. It is. It doesn't look like my shirt. It's the identical shirt. I Mean, it's the exact shirt that where we've got pictures of me holding it wearing the shirt and holding the shirt.

So I'm gonna take it back to to this place yesterday and so I go driving all the way out to where there's an Oakley store out in Arrowhead and I I get there and I hadn't I hadn't put the shirt in the in the car.

So as I'm driving back, I'm getting really annoyed because my little Nissan Versa has this little Tire inflation light thing, you know, and those things are great. I gotta admit I mean most of you are actually driving around and under inflated tires and it actually lessens life your tire and all this I understand all that but It's still annoying because it's really bright.

And so as soon as I get back I Go out and and a couple years ago. I bought one of those little compressor things, you know you can plug into your cigarette lighter and then you can fill up your tires and So I got out that's I and last year or the year before wanted to I gave the kids those for their cars, too.

Because that's just what I do. But anyway So I go out and you have to turn the ignition on on my car for the cigarette lighter thing to work so I turn it on and I I Go out and I fill up the tires and I put the thing away.

I close the door I go inside. Yep, left keys in the car and left the ignition on now. Thankfully no one tried to get in the car. I've seen people on my security cameras try to do that in the past, but they didn't last night.

But when you leave the ignition on for like 12 13 hours. Let's just say that we almost didn't get here today. So right now there's a charger sitting under the hood of my car and I'm thankful that we have something called a motorcycle, which is how I got here.

But it's been a cool morning. It's not like it's not like it's all that cold in Phoenix today. It's gonna be 70 for a high which is really nice, but it was very cold this morning. I rode before sunrise and My computer recorded the coldest temperature I've seen since the mid 1990s on my bicycle and it was twenty eight point four degrees.

You put a 16 mile per hour Windchill in that and that's 17 degrees. 17 degrees. Why was I out there. Because I decided I wanted to listen to an e-book and It's a short little e-book. I can tell it's a series of blog articles.

But a man from Issachar if you follow that blog had suggested it. He is a black pastor. I spoke with him At a conference in New Jersey, I don't know two years ago something like that and So I listened to this e-book twice on the way out on the way back on a 30-miler it's fairly short and It was fascinating and I so I want to start the program off today with some information about that and It's I Don't know Hopefully you'll find this to be interesting.

I could just be getting myself into a lot of trouble. Which is which is possible, but I thought it was it was worth taking the time to take a look at this. There's a man by the name of Ronald Everett and Ronald Everett is an ex-con.

He was in prison from September of 1971 to I believe was May of 1975 having been convicted of beating and torturing a woman while he was in prison, he continued his studies and Once he got out he actually had credits toward a PhD and has since earned two PhDs primarily in political science and social ethics and And This this man Helped to found a black nationalist separatist party in fact the woman that he tortured was a member of his organization the us organization now When I first saw us and that's nice the United States organization, but it that's not what it means.

It's sort of like have you seen FUBU for us by us? Well, that's the us it's us versus them white versus black in this case black versus white and So this was an organization with strong socialistic tendings tendencies even Very left-leaning along those lines that encouraged Blacks to for example buy from only black stores and made by you know, things like that.

There's there's strong racial racist under Current there though. I've been told that if you're in the minority, you can't be a racist. Which is sort of seems to be the conventional wisdom today. Is that the only way you can be a racist is if you're in the majority if you're in the minority You can't be a racist which I find very odd.

But anyway Once he got out of prison Ronald Everett Decided to in essence begin a Well, he had already begun a movement and it changed when he got out of out of prison now he had scholarship behind him and and there's been some evolution over the years, but Remember that he was put in prison in 1971 five years before that He had laid out the principles of A black nationalism and A separatist black nationalism and He had expressed his dislike of the Christian faith feeling that the Christian faith was in essence a white man's a White man's religion and Christmas for example It's it's a white man's religion.

I mean that Santa Claus looks pretty pretty white to me and So in 1966 he decided to Start a holiday now he had also taken a new name and his name as it is to this day is Karenga and You've probably figured out now what I'm talking about is What's called Kwanzaa?

Which began yesterday? I believe it's the 26th through the 2nd and The book I was listening to Which was recommended to me Is all about Kwanzaa and what its sources were and what its background is. Its relationship to this.

This philosophy that Karenga developed called Kawida and It's a mixture of a number of things. I Found it interesting that the author of this this book Didn't pick up on some of the Islamic Elements to it mentioned for example the Nia.

Nia is a part of Islamic prayer the intention purpose the Nia and So he established Kwanzaa in 1966. I remember he's convicted in 1971. So this Kwanzaa was before this and Kwanzaa was Kwanzaa was religion for blacks.

It is a religion it's a religious concept. They've tried to de-emphasize that now, but very clearly it has strong religious overtones to it. Some of the things that Karenga has said is that Kawida is a total way of life.

We believe that children are the real life after death and our greatest duty to them is to leave our community in better shape Than the way we inherited it community there being the black community. He says I'm the founder of religion called Kawida and it's based on seven principles.

He also says we are God ourselves and clearly when it was initially established it was meant to be a Alternative to Christmas something for For black people to gather around and to celebrate other than Christmas.

Now since then he has said well No it's not meant to be an alternative to or substitute for any of those the rest of those things but The reality was is you can find some pretty strong contradictions between What He said originally and what he is he is saying now.

I wanted to get a little more time to see if he's Still kicking out there if he's still teaching it in Long I think it was in Long Island not not Long Island. Long Beach. Yeah, Long Beach on the left coast and Long Island and on the other coast.

But I like I said didn't have didn't have time to do as much looking into it as I wanted. So I I found it very very interesting to listen to this. Like I said, if you go if you look for just look for a man from Issachar Is the blog I was gonna have again.

It's gonna have all this up, but just had to be able to Get things queued up in time before the opening music started. That's how close I was getting in here. But look up a man from Issachar good blog to follow.

You'll see the resources link there where you can get that information. As well, but it's it really is interesting to to realize that this thing was started when I was three years old. Doesn't exactly have deep roots in the past if you know what I mean and and it was started as a Distinct political overtones and very very clear religious overtones to in a Rejection of the Christian faith and and of course for our our black Christian brothers and sisters the idea of Separating out and not being a part of the one body.

It's just just completely opposed to what the Christian faith is all about this idea of that's what that's what's made has always made the Ku Klux Klan such a Mockery of the cross and things like that is That there is neither black nor white.

Paul could have said that if it had been a relevant issue in his day though there weren't very white people around of I guess black and olive skin would have been a little bit more of the issue back then but Male or female black or white bond or slave you're all one in Christ Jesus and and anything that comes along that is meant to disrupt that unity is.

Well, it's it's opposed to the Christian faith and so when you when you hear people running around today talking about Kwanzaa well, that's they're talking about and You can get some more information on that.

If you look up a man from Issachar is the is the website there. I do have Wallace Ehrman queued up. I have da Muhammad queued up. But we also have a phone call. So we'll just go ahead and we'll go ahead and take the phone call and I will bring it up on my end.

And I think all you have to do is make sure it's It's up over there and let's let's talk with Bob. Hi, Bob.

Good morning, brother. How are you? I hear your voice? Yes, sir. Excellent. I Have a question. I'm involved with what called Saints Alive. Uh-huh. And so most of our outreach is with. Either in the marketplace or on their territory with people like Mormons Jada abuse and Excuse the expression seven-day Adventist, but in in the course of things We've run across a number of people that we're just really convinced that in a way of thinking Called the King James only movement.

Oh, yes, and at times and I'm trying to be kind here at times. It seems like when dealing with these people there on many of them are unable to reason. Unable to consider evidence. Unable to consider the facts of history friends in the Christian cults.

I can't explain it and I don't understand it. But if you could help our thinking I would pass along your response to some of the brothers and sisters I work with and be able. Maybe in a more kind way to deal with some of these people that seem to be trapped in something that at times.

Is almost cultic. Yeah, I have made reference to a cultic form of King James only ism that is unfortunately what you see most often because these folks are very very bold in their proclamation of of their beliefs and We had an example on this program about Six months ago or so may actually a little bit less than that.

When a guy net by name will Kenny called in and Alright, we had I think this was I think it was July or August if you could look at the archives You'd be able to find it and Will Kenny is a is a King James only advocate and in attempting to reason with him it became very very clear that he simply is is not either willing or capable to reason on the basis of Just just direct factual information and cause and effect and because of X therefore why Just completely lost on him.

He accused me of Misrepresentation in my book and I I went through all the facts Pointed out he had skipped a footnote that had the information in it. And and he just couldn't see how that would be relevant to read footnotes, and he couldn't see how the information Was was relevant and and it was just it was a sad and amazing thing to to observe.

But unfortunately, it is something we've seen many many times. There is a cultic kind of King James only ism where you cannot reason with the individual they will they reason only with emotion and If you if you challenge them, they assume that you're challenging the Bible rather than a a very Modernistic, I mean the King James only movement is less than a hundred years old it's his it's history can be traced into the 1930s and Yeah, so when you when you consider all of that They they don't tend to really know much about history or if they do they only know very very select facts about history and and rarely have a context to place it into and so yes there are the cultic King James only us and then there are the non cultic King James only us who aren't automatically going to default to calling you a God hater or a Bible hater or or the like and are much more rational to deal with and Actually, those are tend to be the folks that end up if if they really do think things through leaving that movement but still There's there's a lot of them.

There's just have never been Challenged to think through the ramifications of their of their position. So how do we talk? I don't I I think it differs from from person to person to be honest with you.

I Think that there is a kind of person who very much likes the black and white world of King James only ism and it's it's very very simplified it just makes everything very easy and Sure, you know, it's really easy to then draw lines and say it's me versus all the rest of them.

And so there's a mindset that it does tend to feed into as far as that cultic level of it goes, so. But again, I want to make it very very clear I'm not saying every King James only us does a member of a cult.

But the ones that the ones that scream the loudest and post the most YouTube videos of them burning NIVs and the like do tend to be the ones that Have a very cultic mindset where you're exactly right when I'm talking to a Mormon.

There are Mormons I talked to and they have their testimony of the Book of Mormon and It doesn't matter what you say how many scripture verses you present to them how how you show them. They're being inconsistent because if there was a Jehovah's Witness staying there They would say things that Jehovah's Witness that they themselves are saying and you know this kind of stuff you see that kind of mindset and you see it functioning as well amongst many of these King James only folks where they just are totally unwilling or incapable of Examining the presuppositions upon which they're they're basing themselves.

So it doesn't seem to have anything to do with smart or dumb.

No, no. No, I mean there there are some very simple folks that They get involved with it because they don't like. Things like having notes at the bottom of their page that says some manuscripts say this and some manuscripts say that even though the original King James had the same thing.

There are some simple folks as you go. I just don't want any of the rest that stuff. But no many of these folks will memorize facts and figures and and everything else. They clearly have the capacity to do that and outside of their religious life.

Some of these folks were engineers and things like that. So it's you know, just as you find I have found many many many Intelligent Mormon people who are aerospace engineers and all the rest that stuff and they believe in Nephites and Lamanites even though there's there's no evidence that such things ever existed, so.

No, no, they didn't leave much they didn't leave anything behind none of those jade and cocoa beans, but anyway, you know You know the Limna's and all the rest that stuff. That's another issue, but you know what I'm talking about.

So so it's it is I can't give you a nice easy way to deal with these folks because They're you know, the best you can do is speak truth to somebody but they're when you're dealing with a cultic mentality, there are times just have to walk away and by the way almost all of The street screechers and I don't call them Street preachers.

I call them Street screech. Yeah, we understand. Yeah. Yeah, exactly who stand outside that the temple in Salt Lake yelling it shouldn't be Mormon. It should be moron and they think that's preaching right the vast majority of them I'd say 85 to 90 of them are King James only as well.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, and so it seems to the world is so I don't have any answers.

Well, we'll pray and try to be more sensitive and and listen to God. All right, I hear you and you're giving us a good clue. Blessings on you. Okay. Thank you. All right. God bless. Bye. Bye.

Well, there you go. I it is. It is unfortunate that that particular movement has had done so much damage. These are the people that very frequently are seen on television and they are the ones that destroyed our outreach in Salt Lake City and disrupted the outreach in Mesa and there is a connection between Their ahistorical circular reasoning as far as Bible translations goes and their behavior and and Proclamation in other areas as well.

So that is that is very much the case. Okay. No other phone calls right now. So we'll dive into the text by the way I didn't see him active be before but I did want to mention that the the primary reason we're doing a jumbo size DL today we still have over an hour to go and Barry already looks tired in there.

It's it's tough man. I'll tell you it's. And the reason we still have an hour to go in the the jumbo DL today is because we had we had special requests. Today is a very special special day. It seems that that special people are born in December.

I'm not sure exactly why that is but it's it's a special day and You know Big Ralph was was born in In December and and I was born in December and Evidently today is someone's birthday and This person's birthday.

He's just a little bit older than I am. He's just completed his 50th year. So he's turning 50 today and I'll do that next year. But he is a fellow who listens to every single dividing line at least three times.

And every one of my debates at least three times and then he just memorizes all of them. So it's he. He makes me a little uncomfortable. He's he's he scares me. I very frequently will say in channel you frightened me because he remembers all sorts of things that I Do not remember at all.

Now if I sat around listening to myself, I'd have a great memory. Just like Algo. Four times. Okay, every every dividing line four times and who knows how many for each of the debates? I don't know but he can quote he can quote my debates and That's frightening to me.

But today is Algo's birthday. So we're dedicating today's dividing line to Algo. Who will then be able to quote everything that I say on this. This this entire program like five years from now. That's the scary part.

Is it is he will and In fact, oh seven times for the debates. Okay, and If I was videotaping right now, which I didn't have time to set up the camera. But if I was videotaping right now, he would remember what I'm wearing right now.

Which again, like I said frightens me and it should frighten you as well. Okay, anyway. So, um You know what? I think what we'll do in there Barry so that you're not all freaked out is we'll just since I'm not recording.

Anyways, as far as the video goes, we'll just We'll just slide through here. We don't have to worry about that. Don't need to worry about the break stuff like that. Though it would be nice. Well, we'll see if we'll see if after we cover some some Bart Ehrman stuff here if we have any more calls to look at.

So we'll take some calls if somebody wants to call in. Want to comment on that about that what I could use from you. However, since I didn't get it is exactly that that's right. All right, let's get back into some of the reviews We're doing we will continue on with with the radio free Geneva material.

Who knows maybe next time with James McCarthy's sermon we didn't really get into the most interesting part of it last time but we will continue on with that as well and then I have a Do y 'all remember the the video that I posted last week where We had a a Salafi Muslim.

Discussing why he did not feel that you could give Holiday greetings or wish a Merry Christmas to Christians. You know, you can open that door a little bit faster than that. It's it's okay. It doesn't make that much noise.

Thank you. And I I only posted it because It helped to illustrate what I've talked about in regards to concept of shirk and I include a little paragraph as to why I do not why I reject the accusation.

The Christians are mushriks. I I really believe that The author of the Quran did not understand what Christians believe and so on and so forth. So I posted that well that particular Speaker I've been in contact with him and I'm gonna let him know when I'm gonna start.

I guess that was. He would rather that people would see this I think it's about an hour and 10 minute long presentation he did called Quoting Jesus not misquoting Jesus quoting Jesus. So sometime last week.

I think it was Christmas Eve. Sometimes a few days ago. I'm sorry Christmas Eve. I think it was Saturday. I listened to the entirety that presentation while doing a 68 mile ride with my wife and I'm gonna let him know When I'm gonna be doing that review so that he can listen and now he's in Riyadh, I believe and there's someplace in Saudi Arabia.

And I'm gonna be sending out. I want to send out some some books to him. I made that offer and Hopefully have some nice a nice dialogue with him. But we'll be doing that after we finish the diya Muhammad series once you finish up diya diya Muhammad.

Then we can go from there. So that's what's in in line here. We also had a request for a British scholars Comments to be played. I listened. I tried to listen to that but it didn't record correctly. So I guess I'll have to rerecord it so we can get to that too but lots of things to queue up and listen to here on the program as we seek to help you in Being an apologist and giving an offense for the faith today.

So let's make sure I've got the computer plugged in here, which I do and Let's go back to Bart Ehrman's comments Bart Ehrman the man promoting the idea that you have to have Photocopies of the originals for the New Testament to be trustworthy in essence is what we're listening to.

Let's let's dive back in.

There have been Numerable stages between the original and our first copy. How many mistakes had crept into the text before we start getting copies? There's no way to know. Because we don't have earlier copies.

But as I have been pointing out given the fact that you do not have a Single line of transmission you have multiple lines of transmission if there were major modifications changes alterations and the like In those first few decades before we do have the first copies appearing.

It seems that given the multiple lines of transmission that when those First copies begin to appear in history that we would see massive differences not just you know, not just small differences not just a word ending here or a synonym there or a spelling there, but if there was any kind of Editing changing going on there would be great evidence of that because of the multiple lines.

And that's why last time we pointed out that Ehrman really tries to minimize the number of copies the originals and to to Narrow down. What he wants to do is narrow down the stream of transmission So that you can cram as much corruption into the early decades as possible.

Theoretically The reality is it would be a very wide broad stream in light of Many of the historical issues that we've already discussed the destruction of manuscripts under the Roman persecution things like that it would be a much wider stream and It's much harder to theorize Massive corruption of a wide stream of transmission than it is a narrow stream of transmission.

So that's why he is invested in This this narrow stream of transmission concept that allows him to promote his his perspective.

These are the earliest the first complete copy.

300 years after how many interviews. Now he's showing p45 for mark, but you know, it'd be nice. And which isn't even complete manuscript of mark. We don't have a complete papyri manuscript of mark. You know, it's funny how the mind works.

I was going to mention this I don't know about three weeks ago four weeks. No. No, it was November 20th. Yeah, November 20th I was speaking to church down to some. And it's so weird over a month later I'm riding along and all of a sudden I realized I had misstated.

So I'd say it's something in a way it could be misunderstood in. One of the three services. Only one of the three services that church. What is going on in the subconscious part of your mind? That all of a sudden just out of the blue you go.

Oh, man, I Said that we don't have any papyri copies of mark. What I should have said is that we don't have any complete Papyri copies of mark and it's. And it's something I said a month ago. And only one of three services.

I mean what what is going on in the mind? That that makes.

That makes I just. Sometimes just makes me go. Oh, that's weird. Intervening stages of copying. Was it we don't we simply don't know. We can't know because we don't have we don't have the manuscripts to tell us.

This again is not simply true for the gospel mark. It's true for all of the books of the New Testament. It seems like when you buy the New Testament that we know what's in it because you go to the bookstore and you buy a New Testament and you know, you go to another bookstore you buy the new test.

It's the same thing but not in the ancient world if you lived in Rome and You read a copy of mark and then you went to Ephesus and read a copy of mark. You might be reading two different copies with two different wordings of this passage or that passage.

Now notice the care with which dr. Erman is speaking with different wording of this passage or that Passage. Now, he has to be very very careful here. Because the most widely divergent copies we have do not give you a different gospel of mark and Erman would have to admit that.

He'd have to know he I mean we played the the portion of my cross-examination where I was. I asked him You know if you edited your own Greek New Testament, is it not true that it would be? Closer to the the version we have today in the Nessie Allen platform than the TRS and it remember he was just yep.

Just yes, just so I don't know why he didn't want to expand upon it. Maybe he realizes this isn't good for book sales. I don't know but there it was and So it's it's a it's almost a nuanced way of speaking here.

He wants to continue to inculcate a level of of Uncertainty and untrustworthiness, but he doesn't want to overplay his hand. Because he can't possibly substantiate any kind of accusation of major editing and changing.

The best he can do is is copyist errors and maybe a tweak by a Scribe concerning some type of theological Controversy raging at the time or something along those lines.

These copies are circulating throughout the Roman world. Wherever Christians were they wanted of course they wanted copies of the Gospels. If you wanted a copy of the gospel and you lived in Ephesus. But it was made in Rome you had to make a copy in Rome and take it to Ephesus.

And then you made a copy that was maybe a copy of the copy of the copy. So maybe you're making a copy of a copy that in fact had a lot of mistakes in it. But that's the copy you have now in Ephesus and suppose somebody from Colossae wants a copy.

So they come to Ephesus and they make a copy of this mistaken copy, and that's the gospel. They have an in Colossae and then somebody suppose somebody from Antioch wants a copy. Well they come to Colossae and they make a copy there of this errant copy is based on copies of the copies of the cup and it Circulates around the Roman world like this.

Again emphasizing Single lines of transmission no discussion whatsoever of well what happens if you had two copies and We know that scribes did We know that they did in the early period. We know we can tell by some of the scribal Changes and errors That the reason that they struggle at a point is because they had two different readings and manuscripts in front of them.

So it wasn't just a single line sometimes they actually sometimes a scribe would actually have to engage in a level of Textual critical activity even in the early days because they're they're looking and it's okay this one says this and that one says that this one spells it this way and that one spells it that way and Sometimes they go with one sometimes with the other.

You know they might come up with a sense that well This one's more trustworthy than that one or maybe they knew where this one came from or may it was written more nicely or There's all sorts of different reasons, but sometimes they'll conflate the readings sometimes There's two different words.

I'll put them together with a Chi in between them or things like that called conflation all sorts of reasons to recognize that it that this activity did not take place in a vacuum and that for the majority of that very time period that he wants us to focus upon as the likely period of Majority corruption of the majority corruption happening is the same time when eyewitnesses to the gospel events and the Apostles themselves are still in the.

In the world and They're a part of the mix here as well with everybody making mistakes and no way for us to know. What mistakes had been made at the early stages? That's the problem we're confronted with with the text of the New Testament.

So what can we say about our surviving copies? Well, the good news is we have lots of copies of the New Testament. We have lots more copies of the New Testament than for any other book in the ancient world.

We have so many more copies than we have a Plato or of Euripides or Homer or of Aeschylus. Name your author. We have far more copies of the New Testament than any so that's that's the good news. The bad news is we don't have any of the early copies.

It's nice that we have copies from later centuries. But we don't have the copies that we want which are the copies from the early centuries. Well again.

Overblown way of presenting this we have far more early century copies the New Testament than any other work as well and as far as Between the time of original writing and first copies the New Testament is again far better than any other work of antiquity as well.

So when he's talking about early copies, man, if p52 isn't an early copy, I don't know what is. If p45 is an early copy or p46 P75 p66 these are all very very early in if we want to use that word in any meaningful fashion.

But again Bart Ehrman feels he really has some calling from a god. He does not know to radically alter the landscape of New Testament textual criticism and Hence, he feels he can just go ahead and use words in new ways.

The papyri used to be called early copies now. They're not early copies. If we want early copies then as we played In his own words during the cross not the cross-examination the audience questions. Well, you know ten copies of mark written ten days Ten days after the original that agree at ninety nine point nine nine one percent that's good enough for me.

Those are those are early copies and of course this this again is the photocopier standard. That Bart Ehrman is operating on.

What can we say about the ages of these copies? Well, the oldest copy of mark is p45, which we looked at from the year 220. We have a fragment of a piece of the New Testament from almost a hundred years earlier.

Maybe a hundred years. It's hard to date these things the way they date manuscripts is on the basis of handwriting analysis. Basically, I mean to simplify things it's on the basis of handwriting analysis.

There are scholars who are called paleographers who are able to look at a Greek manuscript and and on the basis of the Style of the handwriting tell you when it was written within about 50 years. Well, so we have this scrap called p52 the 52nd papyrus Catalog, which is a tiny scrap probably from the early 2nd century.