Video Footage! Talking to Mormon Missionaries On The Street!

Joseph Smith’s Claims About God Versus the Bible

Jesus has to be set by that standard, so does Moses. So what would you say to a guy like me that has said, look, I genuinely wanted to listen and figure out, okay guys, you're zealous, you're very loving, and I've said, okay, let me examine.

What would you say to a guy like me that says, okay, Joseph taught a different God. He taught that you can become a god one day.

God says he's the only one.

There's none before and none after. He's the only one in the heavens above and on the earth below. Joseph taught us that there were gods before God and you could become one one day. So when I look at that as a Christian, I say, how do I reconcile that?

How would you guys answer something like that?

Personally, the way that I would answer is, we do worship God and only God. He is our God. He's the father of our spirits.

He's the only one Lord.

He is our only Lord.

But he's not the only one.

And honestly, I don't have an answer to that because I don't have that knowledge right now. The knowledge that I have is...

Did you go to seminary?

Yeah, I did.

You can tell me if I'm wrong, but in seminary, most of the time, my friends were taught in seminary, the famous quote, as man is, God once was. As God is, man may become. So when we say we're not so sure, it's pretty clear.

God was once a man who had a God before him, and you can become one one day. So with that, we do know that there are many gods before God you can become one one day. And that's what I mean by elder. Out of a genuine love and concern for people who are Latter-day Saints, as Christians, we would say, guys, God warns us that even if somebody looks legit,.

But they haven't,.

They lead you to a false god, then they're a false prophet. So that would be a question I would ask. For example, Isaiah 43 .10.

Yeah.

Big one.

It says... I like to start by hanging off the roof. Isaiah 43 .10 says, Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. So that's God saying, none before, none after. Now, Joseph said,.

He came to follow that discourse.

He said,.

We've imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea. Take away the veil so that you may see. You've got to learn to become gods yourselves. The same way all gods have done before you.

Grace, Faith, and Works in the Book of Mormon and Paul

So as a Christian, I've had such close friends come to me and say, hey Jeff, I've prayed about the Book of Mormon, I have a burning in my bosom, I've received a testimony. You need to read this and ask of God to see whether it's true.

And I say, well, okay, but look, I have the scriptures, and I know what God has said already long before Joseph came along. And what Joseph says flatly contradicts God. So how do you... how do you help a Christian like me understand where you're coming from when I bring that to you?

Like, God says this, Joseph says that.

Absolutely.

What I've offered people in just my short time being here, when they have had that question, I do invite them to read also, just as your friends have.

Read what? The Book of Mormon.

Okay.

So say I have.

Okay.

And I find the Book of Mormon to be, say, a major contradiction.

Between what I see in scripture.

And you can help me with it. Not necessarily on the spot, but just tell me kind of how you reconcile those. So 2 Nephi 25 -23 says, By grace are you saved, after all you can do. Okay, so then, it sounds familiar to me, because it sounds like Ephesians 2, 8 and 9, kind of, where Ephesians 2, 8 and 9 says, By grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not according to works, lest any man should boast.

But then Joseph says, By grace are you saved, after all you can do. Those two verses are in collision with each other. It's two different Gospels. So I have the Word of God as my foundation, and then Joseph comes along and says,.

You know, the church was destroyed,.

I had to restore it, you know, modern day prophets,.

The golden plates,.

You know, translated them.

From a former edition of Ariglyphics. And I look at what's produced, and I say, but that contradicts everything Jesus said. Everything that the Bible teaches.

About who God is,.

And what the good news is. So what about that? Because I've read the Book of Mormon.

So we believe that, that if we follow Jesus Christ, and do all that He has asked us to do, so pray, read the Scriptures, keep the commandments, things like that, that we will be saved through His grace.

And He's already suffered for our sins on the cross, for each and every one of us. And we believe that wholeheartedly, that that atonement, that sacrifice that He made, that He made for each and every one of us,.

Is true and real.

And it's just like faith. We can have faith that we're going to go out.

And get a job,.

But unless we get up, and go out and fill out applications, we aren't going to find that job. God's not just going to plop something down in front of us. And so when it says through our works, He wants us to show our faith by doing the things that He has asked us to do.

And so you believe that those,.

The grace is sufficient after all you can do. You've got to do, and then the grace is there.

No, that grace is already there. The grace is absolutely already there. He has already suffered for us.

Well, I mean, 2 Nephi 25 -23 says, by grace, after all you can do. So after all you can do, then the grace. Father, do you like the grace? No, I don't like either.

Justification by Faith Apart from Works of Law

So, for example,.

Romans 3 -28 says, we conclude that a man is justified, thus declared righteous before God, by faith apart from works of law. So faith apart from works of law. It says in Galatians chapter 5, that Christ has become of no effect to you, whosoever of you attempts to be justified by law, you've fallen through grace.

Now, by the way, He said that in Galatians to people who were saying it's faith in Jesus, and also just to keep obedience to this work of the law, circumcision. So Paul says, if anybody tries to mix faith in Jesus and any work of the law, to get right before God, he says that, that's not grace, you're under the curse of the law to fulfill all of it.

So, what I would say to my Latter-day Saint friends is, if you're choosing works in tandem with grace and faith, Paul says that that's a false gospel, anyone preaching it is eternally condemned. Paul says very clearly, in Romans chapter 3, that by the deeds of the law, there shall no flesh be justified at His sight, for through the law is the knowledge of sin.

And he says that, the but now part,.

Which is beautiful,.

But now,.

Apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets. In other words, this righteousness from God is through faith in Jesus, it's a gift by His grace, through the redemption that's in Christ.

Now, I know that you're hearing that, it's a different thing, so it's hard for our conversations, is that we both, all three of us, say grace, we say faith,.

We say cross,.

Resurrection, but we don't mean the same things though, like when I say salvation by grace, I mean purely by grace apart from any work of law at all, through Christ and His work alone.

I mean,.

I would say what Paul says, Philippians 3, you probably know this, he says that he wants to be found in Christ, not having a righteousness of his own derived from the law, but that which comes from God through faith in Christ.

He wants a foreign righteousness, one that's not his own before God, and that would bring me to a point of like, I think we're preaching different gospels, and it's not a minor issue, it's an issue of eternal death.

Or eternal life.

That's why I'm concerned,.

That's why I don't think.

The arguments between us are not just pithy, they're pretty serious. Like, we've already talked just for five minutes, and we have many gods before God, you can become one one day, God says there's none before and none after.

Now, if God is the only God truly,.

Eternally,.

And he was not a man who became a god, and you can't become one. One day, it would mean that you guys are out preaching a message of a false god. And I don't want you to think that I'm wanting to rob you of faith.

I don't.

I don't want to rob you of faith, I want to point you to the true and living God, and true and living Christ. Can I just say one thing, I know you guys probably have to be on your way, but just one thing.

Christ as the Way, the Truth, and the Life

How serious this is,.

Jesus says he's the way, the truth, and the life. I know you guys believe that. We would affirm that, and high-five each other on that. So, Jesus taught that, but here's what I'm concerned about. You guys do believe that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers, right?

Is that right? Spirit brothers, Jesus and Lucifer? I don't know. I know, you believe that. The Bible teaches that Jesus is the eternal God, and that he created everything, including Satan. John chapter 1, verses 1 through 3,.

It says,.

Without him, that's Jesus, was not anything made that's been made. Colossians 1, 16, says, By him were all things created in the heavens and on the earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities.

So the Bible teaches that Jesus created Satan. So, you believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, but the Bible teaches that he created Satan.

That's a different Christ,.

And I know that you and I agree.

That he's the only way. So there's only one Jesus,.

But there's lots of false ones that can't save. So that's why I'm concerned for you. And I believe you, by the way, that you're zealous, that you're sincere, that you're earnest. And I think, in many ways, you guys put a lot of people to shame with the zeal and the passion and the commitment you have.

You put a lot of people to shame. So I'm not going to denigrate that. My heart for you is I believe that all of us are fallen, and all of us have to beware.

Of false prophets, false Jesuses.

And the way to test to know if we really have the true Christ is whether the Christ that we believe in, the gospel we believe in, is consistent with what God's already said.

And thank you so very much for your time. And we really appreciate it, and we appreciate your concern. And this world isn't perfect, neither is man, and many things are given by God through man. And we all have our different interpretations, and someday we will all be judged for that.

I would never, Elder,.

I would never want that for you.

Absolutely not.

Consider for a second, imagine for a moment, you're on your mission, you've got a heart that is just pumping, just with passion to just get out there. And you run into a guy that comes to you on a Saturday morning.

And says,.

Hey guys, here's some verses. God says there's no God before Him,.

None after Him,.

That Jesus is the creator of Satan. You're out teaching people right now that there were gods before God, you can become one one day, and Jesus was used for our brothers. The Bible teaches that salvation is a gift of God's grace through faith in Jesus.

Apart from works, you're teaching the opposite. Wouldn't it be a stunning act of God's grace to have that event occur in your life?

Absolutely.

And to know that God sent someone to you while you were on a mission and telling people things that weren't true about God. Wouldn't it be gracious of God?

And that's why I'm going to go home and pray about it.

Would you do this too?

Absolutely.

Because I value prayer. Would you do this too? Would you look at Isaiah, chapters 43 through 46?

I didn't write that down.

Isaiah, chapters 43 through 46, and then Romans, chapters 3 through 5. Just look through there. Just read it and just think through it in relation to what Joseph's revelation, Isaiah 43 through 46.

Just those three chapters.

And then Romans, chapters 3 through 5. And then really the book of Galatians is only six chapters. I love Galatians.

Yeah.

And Galatians, and just look through there and try to think through. So you can see where my concern is coming from.

Absolutely.

What God has already said, kind of contrasted with what Joseph thought. And just see, what does God say?

Absolutely.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for stopping with me.

You guys were a blessing.