The Intent Of The Atonement

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. My adrenaline ministry.

My name�s Mike Abendroth. It�s been a while, Mr. Cooley. Welcome. Thank you for having me. All right. I wanted to say, �In peace, let us pray to the Lord. But that would have been going back to my Lutheran days.

I�m thankful you didn�t do that. Did you know many Lutherans when you were growing up? No. I mean, I�m trying to think.

I knew a Catholic. I knew a Jew. I knew a Jehovah Witness and a lot of Mormons and probably a lot of people. I just didn�t know their religion. But like a Heaven�s Gate member?

Yeah. I was just listening to a podcast. I think it�s a new one about cults or something. I can�t remember the name of it. Maybe it�s called cults. Bible Answer Man. I just, behind me, see that stack of books over there?

You got the squeaky chair. I think you�re going to have to change that chair. Let me talk. I�ll change it. Oh, sorry. You change that chair. I was cleaning through my books, going through my books, and I saw the Bible Answer Man ones that I had, the Christianity in Crisis and Counterfeit Revival or whatever, and I had to get rid of them.

I�m kind of shocked that my chair was squeaking given that it�s such a high-quality chair.

We�ve had these chairs. These were chairs donated to us 25 years ago from a school board.

I�m not trying to say these chairs are old, but there�s one that has scribbled into it, John the Beloved Apostle. That�s fascinating.

I thought it�s not Hale-Bopp. It was Bill Haley and the Comets. People were listening. Really old. So what was I just saying? Oh, Lutherans and knowing people. I grew up across the street from St. James Catholic Church and it was literally across the street and you had the nuns who lived in it�s not a parsonage but some type of domicile where the nuns would live.

Oh, the nunnery. Get the 2A. And then behind over to the other side of the church building, they had where the father lived. But one of the things that the nuns love to do is they love to chip golf balls and put around and stuff like that on the lawn adjacent to St. James Catholic Parish.

That doesn�t seem very nun-ish. I know. And what we would do is we would go the next day after they did their chipping and stuff and they had certainly forgotten some and lost some. So that�s where we got our golf balls.

You would steal golf balls from the nuns?

Well, it wouldn�t steal them if you lose them. Somebody might find them.

Hmm. You know, what I used to say with because Janet would find loose change in the couch and I would say if she didn�t give it back to me, that was stealing because if you know whose it is and you don�t give it back to them, that�s stealing.

Well, see, that�s why you�re a policeman, you�re tired type of thing. Speaking of which, last week, the guy pulls up to the church outside of Nashville and shoots some people. Hmm. When you�re a policeman and you now are a pastor, anything churches should do just in general as they think about safety?

Well, I think it�s good to have a security plan, you know, to sort of sit with your ushers, others who would be there and look at your places where people could come in and where they might sneak in, you know, and make sure that you have those places covered.

But I mean, other than that, there�s really not a whole lot you can do. I mean, you want to know who�s armed, you know, if you can know that. But I haven�t read a full write-up on the situation. I don�t know, did he just start shooting from the outside?

He was familiar with the church. I know he had been there before. I haven�t even read what his motive is yet, if they know that. They haven�t really said a whole lot about the church.

The last I heard, I guess it was alleged that he grew up as a Christian and then had some Muslim leanings or something. I don�t really know. I was just thinking these days with ushers, you know, you try to teach ushers how to ush, right?

Typically, ushers just stand there. Maybe they look mean, but if you have it as a real ministry and you could serve people, maybe this is the new part of the ushering ministry.

Yeah, ushers just typically grumble, you know, and,. �Hey, move it you know. Don�t sit in the aisle there.

Scoot it over, you know. Steve, I�ve been listening to a series on the Reformation on iTunes University from RTS, Reformed Theological Seminary, a lot of Luther background and how he says that horror reason, right?

If you�re going to just put rationale above Scripture, that it would be that horror reason. It is also interesting that Calvin was talking about material things and how you should look at them. I just recently learned that he called them ladders or sepulchers.

If you have something tangible or material or even a relationship, a wife, children, spouse, you could look at those and say, �You know, those make me lift my eyes up to God saying thank you very much.

Ladders. If you looked at them as the end all, the terminus, they would be sepulchers. Isn�t that interesting? Ladders and sepulchers.

So even our things can lead to life or death, I guess, isn�t it? I don�t know. That�s confusing.

That�s confusing. Maybe because I listened to it, I�m not confused.

Well, I mean, I certainly think that as we look around at our stuff, what�s the point of our stuff? Does it become stuff that keeps us from worshiping God or not?

Yeah, it�s kind of like back to the old confessions or city of God with Augustine. You got a bunch of people coming in, sacking the Roman Empire and raping and pillaging and please, Augustine or Augustine, depending on who you quote, please write something for us.

We want to know how to think and he basically says, �Have you lost Christ? Have you lost the Spirit? Have you lost eternal life? These are just other fleeting these other things are fleeting, but make sure you have the right priorities.

You put in your backpack? You got the dog, down to one dog? Yes, down to one dog. One dog, your grandkids are someplace else, so it's you and your wife and the baby. Dog and you each have a backpack before you jump in the car, what do you put in there?

How big is the backpack I'm going to put in? I think I have to take my laptop. I think I have a fiduciary responsibility to take that. You know, maybe some charging cords, a Bible and some water. You know, everything else is just kind of...

Okay, we'll see. Ladders or sepulchers?

Everything else is superfluous. I mean, I could live without it, right? Or get it back later if I really need it.

Sometimes if you go on vacation, I know you've just been to the UK and, you know, you just have a suitcase and you're living out of that and you think you come back to your house, you think, man, I got a lot of stuff in this house.

Got a lot of stuff. And, you know, I mean, for what, almost three weeks, all we had was laundry and soap, you know? Is that what it was? A three-week trip? It was like 18 days, something like that.

Wow. Okay. Well, my name is Mike Ebendroth. You're also listening to Steve Cooley. We are pastors here at Bethlehem Bible Church, bbcchurch .org. That's two b's, two c's. If you want to pull up any sermon series, Pastor Steve has been in John while I was gone in the mornings.

He's doing a London Baptist 1689 confession, Sunday schools currently. And what else is on that website? I mean, the search engine, I typed in something the other day. A person said to me, Mike, you don't seem to talk a lot about the Holy Spirit.

You know, maybe they were wondering about the mystical thing and subjective stuff, and I'm not a charismatic. And, you know, do you ever talk about the charismatic, the Holy Spirit rather? And I said, I just did a series.

It seemed like a couple of years ago. What if the Holy Spirit left Bethlehem Bible Church, right? Everybody would lose their salvation. Nobody would get saved. Nobody would be sanctified, right? Because the Holy Spirit, he reveals, he revealed, he inspired, he illumines, he saves, he seals, he sanctifies, all these things.

And I just put that information in there. Holy Spirit leaves BBC, popped it right up on the search engine.

Wow. Wow. I mean, we're better than Google.

I think Google is actually used in it.

Oh, well, that just wrecks it for me.

Any theological tidbits that are in your mind these days that you just can't wait to talk about, you know, the Packers needling tonight or something like that?

No, I mean, there are a lot of tidbits that I've been, you know, because I've just been reading about counseling and about, you know, just reading arguments about did the reformers, you know, address biblical counseling when not directly, indirectly.

So, you know, things like that. And then talking about free will and last Sunday morning, we were talking about, you know, what is it? John 129, when Jesus, John the Baptist says, you know, there's the lamb that takes away the sin of the world.

What is the world? So, you know, somebody suggested it was the whole created system, you know, and I'm like, in other words, the creation, the physical universe. So, I don't know, you know, with a lot of different ideas.

When I first got here, someone said to me when Jesus was talking about, I have other sheep, other places or something. I think it's John 10. That's just a loose paraphrase.

Other sheep I have that are not of this fold. Yes.

And that was on other planets. And I started to crack up and he was serious.

Well, the question did come up, too. You know, if the death of Christ was intended for, you know, all the people of all time. In fact, if there were people on other planets, is it sufficient? And I'm like, well, absolutely.

You know, the issue is, of course, first of all, are there people on other planets? Nothing that the Bible would speak of, certainly. And, you know, how would they find out? I have no idea.

Well, Steve, what would happen is if there were people on other planets, because we've gone about this in other, with other. With the reformers. Angles. But those people to be redeemed would have to be humans, complete humans.

They couldn't be humanoid. They'd have to be human because Jesus as representative and substitute is a human. So whatever makes us human, there couldn't be some type of. Variation. Uh-huh. Klingon or something like that because his death wouldn't match up.

So it'll almost take like a Book of Mormon, too, where somebody would secretly have to leave earth and go to another planet.

Because we know the entire world that is the physical world and everything else has been affected by the fall. Adam's sin did affect. That's why there's, you know, squirrels died.

And by the way, for any of you listeners out there, please don't listen to what I said and start your own cult by writing a new bogus scripture.

And, you know, thinking about that, taking away the sin of the world. As you have heard me say thousands of times, probably at least, you know, a dozen. At least five. Straight from S. Lewis Johnson. You have one sacrifice, an animal for Adam's sin, right?

I think he killed, God killed one animal for Adam's sin. As federal head, one animal for Eve's sin. Then you move toward Exodus chapter 12 and you have the Passover for the family, one animal for the family.

Yom Kippur, Leviticus 16, one animal for the nation. You know, one's let go, one's killed. And then John the Baptist sees Jesus. He doesn't say, behold, the Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world two times.

The second time he just says, behold, the Lamb of God. But still, he takes away the sin of the world. And you just watch John. I mean, I don't have to lecture you in John, but you just watch John. And here we have, for God so loved the world in John 3.

And who is that world? Well, it's answered in lots of ways. One way it's answered is in John 4, Samaritans. He really is the savior of the world. He doesn't just save Jews.

He saves Gentiles. Right. He's not limited in that sense. Yeah, and I think what it all comes back to, and we've talked about it many times, is the intent of the atonement. People want to argue about its extent, but the real key is the intent.

You know, what was the intent? Why did Christ come into the world? Was it to save everyone? And if so, why are they not saved? So, yeah, I didn't. Mission almost accomplished. It is almost finished.

Steve, why do you think when it comes to limited, unlimited atonement, particular redemption, general redemption, why is this the one that is so, it just creates firestorms? When I would imagine, really, it would be election or maybe depravity.

We don't want to think we're as bad as we are. But this is the one, this century, at least in the last 100 years. People are upset about it. If you say Jesus Christ died for the elect, they're pretty mad.

Well, I think it goes back to depravity, really, because they don't, if we understood the plan of God from the beginning, if we understood the covenant of redemption, if we understood that people are really incapable of responding to the grace of God apart from work and He's only going to work in the elect, if we understood all those things, then the extent of the atonement would not concern us because we would accept it as being a logical extension of total depravity, unconditional election, you know, irresistible grace and preservation.

I mean, is God going to preserve everybody? No, He's only going to preserve those who are the elect. Is He going to irresistibly draw everyone? No, only the elect. So, you know, the answer to all these questions regarding salvation is always the elect, the elect, the elect, the elect.

But when it comes to the atonement, everybody's like, oh, it's for everybody. Why? And I think it comes from having a faulty foundation, a faulty beginning, and then it's hard to come to the right conclusion.

Steve, when you look at Calvin's Institutes, well, I just, that was a weird sound. He almost follows Romans, where Romans 9, you begin to see this grand doctrine that God's in charge of who's going to go to heaven and who isn't.

And Calvin doesn't lead right away with predestination in his Institutes. It's almost tucked in soteriology, trying to make it, I don't know, more palatable, but he doesn't show his cards on predestination as early, even though logically, of course, you've got to go back with the decrees and stuff like that.

Is there a way we can talk to new Christians about predestination and limited atonement in a way that, without being, you know, compromising, that we can just be more shepherding, pastorally driven?

Well, I mean, I don't know if this is right or not, but I mean, years ago, before I was a pastor, when I was still, you know, an unpastor, you know, people who profess Christ would say to me, well, I don't believe in predestination.

And I'd go, well, that's interesting. I'd go, can I just see, because they'd usually have a Bible, that's why I'd be bringing it up. And I'd go, can I see your Bible for a minute? And I'd open it up, you know, and I'd go to Romans 8 and, you know, and I'd go, it's here and it's in Romans 9 and it's in Ephesians 1.

And I'd go, so, you know, do you believe the Bible? And they'd go, yes, I just don't believe in predestination. And I'm going, well, if you believe the Bible and this is in the Bible, then you do believe it, you just don't know what it is.

So, you know, my charge to you is to figure it out. And I think if you study these things in context, and context is always the key, if you study in context, you're not going to have these big problems.

It's just somebody dumps the doctrine on you and you're just like, well, I don't know if I like that or not. And I'm not surprised that you don't like it because it comes as a big shock the first time you hear about it.

But when you study the Word of God, it's not so shocking.

Steve, with Calvin and Romans, I heard this pastor talk about, well, this is the right way to do it. Follow Paul and don't introduce sovereignty until later because after all, you know, we're going to talk about like in a systematic theology where the sovereignty of God, i .e. predestination is talked about before we even discuss Jesus.

They said be like Paul. Well, be like Paul in Romans. That's what he did. Yes, I know, but be like Paul in Ephesians where he praises God for election first and then the redemption found in Christ, then the Spirit of God's sealing.

So which Pauline epistle am I supposed to follow?

Yeah, because like you said, right out of the chute in Ephesians 1. But I mean, in Romans 1, again, this is, and it is foundational, but it's offensive to people when you say that the wrath of God is revealed against all unrighteousness, every single sin, and that we're all condemned.

I mean, what is all Romans 1, 2, and 3 about? It's about the universal condemnation, and he doesn't really come to the good news till towards the end of chapter 3 when he's talking about the propitiation that Jesus Christ has been put forth as a propitiation.

So, Steve, these hard doctrines, these sharp doctrines, these, can I say obtuse? No, it's not obtuse. These acute. Yeah, acute. That's better. I think once we say to ourselves, well, with predestination, the words in the Bible, we have to define it.

Everybody believes in predestination. It just depends on what your definition is. But I think if I could try to persuade new Christians and or maturing Christians about the doctrine of predestination, I would just step back and say to them, or have them step back as they're studying this topic, are there not many doctrines in the Bible that are very, very difficult, and we are sinful, and we're finite, and all of a sudden, this is God, and God's not like us.

Remember back to the Bible study with Psalm 50, you know, if I were hungry, I wouldn't tell you. God is just completely different. And I was looking at Deuteronomy earlier, and I just went to chapter 13.

If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife you embrace, or your friend, see how he's trying to say, you know what, that wife, he didn't even say wife, but the wife that you embrace, who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, let us go and serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known.

Some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, who are near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him, but you shall kill him.

And then it says, your hand shall be the first against him to put him to death.

Trevor Burrus. Can you imagine? I mean, the list of people that he gave there and everything like that. So I'm just picturing, you know, as a former police officer, rolling up on the scene of a domestic disturbance, you know, and the husband standing over his wife, she's dead.

Why'd you do that? She was enticing me to go serve foreign gods.

Paul Matzko. Well, obviously, I know you're not saying we're under mosaic law today, like a theonomist or something. My point is, that's a very, very difficult statement. Did not they say of Jesus very often, this is a hard saying.

That's a hard saying. Trevor Burrus. Who can bear it. Paul Matzko. Yeah. I think it's probably a good congregational rule that you should have in your mind, is if your pastor never says anything that's hard, i .e., echoing what Scripture's saying, then you should say, you know what, why am I here?

Trevor Burrus. Soft teaching, hard hearts, right? Well, I was just talking to a brother, I'm counseling somebody. I mean, it's interesting, the internet's interesting because you wind up counseling people, you know, online, people that you don't really interact with on a constant basis.

And so, you know, this guy was just relaying the way that he was taught at his former church, and he's just like, it is so, you know, it was so weak. And he talked about the elders there and how they're responding at his former church.

And I listened to what he was saying, and I'm like, you know, those elders responding just like unbelievers, why? It's because they get all this, you know, all these marshmallows thrown at them week after week, after week, after week.

And so ultimately, how do they respond?

Like unbelievers. So true. Well, if you'd like to go to Israel with us, that will be February, the last 10 days of February, you can go to nocompromiseradio .com or the Pilgrim Tour. We'd love to have you go with us.

You can invite other people if you'd like. You just need to tell them simply that there will be Bible teaching at the sites. It's a Christian group. We've had unbelievers go with us. That's been fun, and we've been nice to them and kind, and we've done friendship evangelism.

No, but if you've got family members, you'd love to have them come. You can bring Roman Catholic friends, whatever you want. It's just going to be a Bible teaching trip with lots of fun. Bring your swimsuit, Steve.

We do the Mediterranean dive. We do the Jordan. We do the Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea, the four seas. And the Barents Sea. Yeah, on the way back. Just to kind of cool down a little bit. I've said before, when you go to Israel, you know, it's funny because around here, back in the old days with Mahdesh Yahu, he was dressed up, you know, Brooklyn Heights, kind of Jewish look and everything.

And then you get to Israel, there's about 10 ,000 Mahdesh Yahus.

Yeah, and it is definitely interesting, isn't it? Well, because you, and then you go into the more modern area of Jerusalem, and it's like, it's like you just walked into West Hollywood or, you know, what, pick your kind of whacked out modern city, and that's what Jerusalem's like, so.

Jerusalem, if I forget you. Steve, do you think the real burial spot is more the Church of the Holy Sepulcher or the.

Gordon's Calvary or whatever? See, my prejudice just, you know, it doesn't seep in. It overwhelms me. And I'm just like, wherever the Catholic Church has built a church, that, that, that. Oh, that can't be.

Yeah, nothing happened there.

That's almost the Star Trek thing. You know, nothing happened there. You know, Obi-Wan gives the. Star Wars. Oh, sorry. I said Star Trek. That's exactly right. I watched the thing the other day. May the force be with you.

He just gave the Vulcan V. That was funny. So anyway, you can write us info at nocompromiseradio .com. If you have ideas for shows or anything else today, we did talk about a few things were very important pastorally, sovereignty of God.

We did. And then we laughed at our own jokes, which people like, I understand.

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's Word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.