John Piper's "Christian Hedonism," Mark Dever's "One Issue Voting, & John MacArthur's take on CRT

Opening Reflections on the Trip to Washington and the Piper Controversy

Welcome once again to the Conversations That Matter podcast. My name is John Harris. I am back once again in my studio of choice, my wife's laundry room. I was in D .C. for the weekend and had a good time there.

Some positive things, some negative things. I'll give you a little report about that. It is with your support that I'm able to do these things. And a little controversy going on right now on Twitter over a tweet I put out.

I was outside the Supreme Court building right after Donald Trump announced Amy Coney Barrett as his ideal replacement for Ruth Bader Ginsburg and got into a discussion with a couple people. One of them though was a self-described political conservative who attended Mark Devers' church or was a member there, Capitol Hill Baptist.

That's what he told me at least. And he's studying for the ministry. Nice guy, really enjoyed the conversation, but he's politically pro-choice. And so I'm gonna tell you a little bit about that. People said online, oh, John, you know, some people did.

John's slandering this guy, Mark Devers, that is, because he's mentioning what church he goes to. And look, here's the thing. I responded late last night, but I'm not sure everyone saw it. Mark Devers teaches on single-issue voting.

And now Mark Devers probably has a more nuanced, he has probably a different approach slightly from at least this guy. But the question is, is Mark Devers' teaching on single-issue voting compatible or would it at least give you the impression that you could hold the kind of position that this young person held, that I talked to outside the Supreme Court building?

Could you be pro-choice and say, well, this is what the argument he gave me. Well, everything is, you know, racism is a pro-life issue. And basically insinuating conservatives don't care about race, racism, so he's voting for Joe Biden.

That was the logic. So we're gonna talk about that. Did I mention it's a beautiful day? It is a beautiful day. I actually took the air conditioners out, opened the windows. You can feel that crisp fall air coming in.

So I love it. I love this time of year. You know, as a kid, I think summer was my favorite. I still like summer, but the older I've gotten, I've appreciated fall more. I'm not sure if that's something, a lot of people I think are like that.

Anyway, we're gonna talk about that trip to DC though. We're gonna talk about John Piper. I got some pushback for that interview I did with Enoch Burke on his book on John Piper and Sam Albury and their teachings.

And I read about half the book. I read the section on John Piper and I need to say something about this. I have, I've read really every resource people are recommending to me. John, you know, you're slandering John Piper.

This is a character assassination, one person said. Haven't you seen this or that? You know, this book, this article, this interview with John McCartney? Yes, I've seen all of them, just so you know. I should probably say this, about 12, 13 years ago, Piper was the biggest influence on my life theologically, probably.

As far as theologians, I would read. I've read more John Piper than probably anyone else. I love John Piper. I mean, I would wait for every, the books he'd come out, I thought, well, maybe I'll find more resources to fight for joy in the next book he brings, he releases.

I taught the, what's the study he has? Don't waste your life. I've taught that three times. I've led the study in college career context. You know, his teachings on TULIP, the TULIP series he did. I've given that to people years ago.

Again, his gravity and gladness, I've used that to train worship team leaders, worship instrumentalists and singers and people on the praise team at church when I was a minister of music. I still like that teaching.

So, just need to let everyone know, I'm familiar with John Piper and the thoughts that Enoch Burke was bringing out in his book, many of them, I've been thinking for years now. And I haven't been quite sure how to approach it or how to talk about it, because it's definitely, it's in a different category in my mind than say what we're seeing from J .D. Greer and Thabiti Annabouile and Eric Mason and the list goes on.

It's different, John Piper's not in that crowd. I don't think John Piper is necessarily woke, not fully at least. I don't think that John Piper is, in fact, I'll just say this, I haven't called him a false teacher.

Now, I know that, I think Enoch Burke may have called him that. I know E .S. Williams has called him that or said he's promoting false teaching. In my opinion, the issue with John Piper is emphasis. And by the way, I'm not against those guys because I've heard their logic and rationale of why they come to the conclusion they do.

I'm gonna share with you a little bit about why I come to the conclusion that I come to. And it very much parallels their concerns. But in my opinion, it is an emphasis thing. It is not, I don't think that John Piper necessarily has a fully fledged, systematized false gospel that he's putting out there and especially knowingly putting out there.

I think with John Piper, the danger is that if you take his ideas to the next logical step, you can get there. You can get to that false gospel, or at the very least, you can get to a situation where you've subverted the law of God for this kind of almost semi-mystical understanding of having joy in God.

And I'm gonna share with you a little bit about my own experience with that because I was in that for years, wreak havoc on my conscience and what I've learned since then. And then I'm going to, I'm gonna share with you a little bit about, more details about why I have the concerns I do.

So we're gonna go over that. Again, I don't hate John Piper. I don't say, throw out all your John Piper books. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is you gotta be very careful about some of the emphasis you're taking from his material.

If all you get, and I said this in the Enoch Burke interview, if all you get is that we should be more joyful and you take that away, good, good, awesome. Be more joyful, all right? If you're going farther than that, and I'll explain what that looks like, then that may not be good.

And it may explain why, and I've gotten so many questions about this, why Piper is not going after the social justice movement like MacArthur is going after it. And so anyway, we're gonna talk about that.

Christian Hedonism Versus Christian Stoicism

We're gonna talk about also some clips that John MacArthur put out there from Grace Community Church, I think it was yesterday, last Sunday night. Going after critical race theory, you need to hear it because you need to be encouraged.

If you're constantly picking things apart and you're skeptical and you're looking at all these teachers and you're thinking, man, there's just so much false teaching out there. I mean, look, I, probably more than a lot of people, I'm constantly critiquing things.

People are sending me things all the time. John, what do you think of this? Have you talked about this? Could you do a show about this? Look, you can get cynical. You can get very negative. It is possible.

I'm fighting that myself. And we need hope. We need to know that, look, just because people like John Piper aren't using his big platform to go after the guys he's previously platformed, because it's within his power to kill this thing, the social justice thing.

It's within Al Mohler's power to kill it. They're not. So why is that? Why aren't they using that? Well, that question could really grate on us if it's people that we've respected. But here's the thing.

God is bigger than John Piper. God is bigger than Al Mohler. God has his people. God knows what's happening. I believe that. And I cling to that. And we must cling to that. And there are some faithful people out there, and they are telling the truth.

One of them was last Sunday night and what John MacArthur said. And I'm gonna share it with you to encourage you. Not everyone's sold out on this. Not everyone's quietly opposing it, but not publicly.

There are people publicly opposing it, doing the right thing. You need to know about it. So we're gonna talk about that too, a little bit. So let's start with John Piper. Then we'll go to my DC trip. And I'm just thankful to you guys for helping me, supporting me so I can do these things.

And then we'll talk about John MacArthur. So starting off, let's talk about, I'm gonna do this sort of in a roundabout way. I'm gonna parallel two ideas for you. Let's talk about Christian Stoicism. I know you've never heard of that, probably.

I have heard the phrase before. This is not the, just so you know, I didn't come up with this phrase out of a vacuum. There was a book I was reading, The Vanishing American Adults by Senator, I forget the Senator's name off the top of my head.

Senator, I think, from Nebraska. Anyway, it'll come to me. And I think he uses this term, if I'm not mistaken. He uses Christian Stoicism, but I'm gonna give you, this is my version of Christian Stoicism, right?

And I'm gonna give you a little backstory. And so this is hypothetical. But let's say that I had a real problem obeying the commandments of God, right? I kind of, my emphasis wasn't on them. My emphasis was on emotional experience.

Sound familiar, right? This is like most Christians, self-described Christians in America today. You know, I went to the Hillsong concerts. I was trying, you know, I'd read my Bible, I'd pray. I'd seek emotional, especially experience with the Lord.

And finally I realized one day, man, I'm looking at all these Bible verses on obedience and submission and self-control. And I think to myself, you know, that's a lot like Stoicism, at least in its rudimentary form, the way it's used in common parlance, right?

Stoicism is delayed gratification, beating your body in the submission, making sure that duty and willpower overcome emotion and passion. And I realized that and I say, I'm seeing Stoicism in the Bible.

I think the Bible is teaching Stoicism. So I'm gonna come up with my own teaching and I'm gonna call it Christian Stoicism. I'm gonna write a book about it when I don't obey God, maybe, or something like that.

And here's some of the verses, right? 2 Chronicles 30. Do not stiffen your neck like your father's, but yield to the Lord. Okay, we're supposed to. The duty, you just gotta willpower, gotta do it. Joshua 24.

Choose for yourselves today whom you will serve. Gotta choose. Romans 6. Do not let sin reign in your mortal body that you obey its laws. All right, I just gotta, I gotta make a choice. I'm not gonna let sin reign.

1 Corinthians 9. Everyone competes in the games, exercises self-control in all things. Okay, self-control, look, that's the chief thing, right? Paul's saying that Christianity is like a race and for a race, you need self-control.

It's the chief thing. We gotta have self-control. Then it says, they then do it to receive a perishable breath but we, an imperishable, therefore I run in such a way as not without aim, I box in such a way as not beating the air, but I, here's the word, discipline my body, make it my slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself might not be disqualified.

Okay, look, look, here's the deal, guys. This verse, let's say, opens it all up for me. This verse is saying that we must, in the race of life, in this race, we're competing for the prize set before us.

We want to make sure that we are, we live this life well, we go to heaven on the journey, on the way there. I gotta make sure I got self-control. That is essential for this Christian Stoicism right there.

What do you think? What do you think so far? Sound pretty good? Sound like, now I could bring up a lot of other verses but Christian Stoicism, all right, and I'm gonna have a catchphrase for this. God is most glorified in us when we are most obedient to him.

I mean, think about it, think about it, right? Jesus says that we, how do we know that we love him, right? That's what we're supposed to do, that's our prime duty, to obey the commands of God, to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, love our neighbor as ourself.

How do we know that? If we keep his commandments, that's what he says. You will know that you're my disciples if what? If you bear much fruit, Christian Stoicism. We're supposed to obey, all right. What about this?

The chief end of God is to glorify God and submit to him forever. Now, John, is that blasphemous? Well, I mean, Jesus says that he came to do the will of the father. He doesn't do anything if it's not what the father tells him to do.

The Holy Spirit doesn't seek his own glory, he seeks the glory of Christ. There's obedience, in fact, we're supposed to have the mind of Christ, we're supposed to follow his example, right? Obedience, submission.

Now, what am I leaving out in all that? Can you tell there's an imbalance in that at all? Yeah, there's an imbalance. Jesus also said, for the joy set before him, he endured the cross. So if I were to take for the joy set before him and make that the pinnacle, or if I were to take doing the will of the father to be the pinnacle, and that motivates everything, would I be off in some way?

If I just didn't, I didn't talk about the other aspect, I just mentioned one and I called it either Christian Hedonism or Christian Stoicism. Yeah, I'd be wrong. I wouldn't be giving you a full picture, I wouldn't.

I would be giving you part of the picture. There's more to Christianity and Christian life than simply obeying. But obeying is essential to the Christian life. Is it not? Yes, it is. Now, if I wrote a book and all you got from it was, well, we're supposed to obey God, and this really helped me understand I need to obey God and submit, and when I don't feel like doing something, I gotta do the right thing anyway.

I gotta beat my body into submission. That wouldn't be bad if that's what you got from it. But then why call it Christian Stoicism, which is what the Bible teaches? It's not anything new. But if I call it Christian Stoicism, I am attempting to bring up a term, create a term that sets me apart from the pack.

Maybe I can write a book and sell a book based on it because what I'm saying is different than what has previously been said. Or I'm packaging it differently. I'm showing you a different way of approaching something.

Now, if you went to, let's say, theological conclusion of my Christian Stoicism, and you made that the end all be all, and everything was just about willpower, what would you become? A Pharisee, would you not?

Possibly. If you, here's the thing. Now, I gotta be careful here because Pharisaism is subverting the law of the God for the sake of tradition. It's also, it's trying to find redemption somehow, salvation, in fulfilling the law.

Now, if you went that far, that would be, you're way out in left field, way wrong. But if you just simply became a legalist, and the only thing that mattered was fulfilling the law, and let's say I added to it.

Let's say I, well, we're gonna go fundamentalist on this. Obeying the Lord means, there's principles in Scripture that you must obey. And you must not, let's say, go and watch rated R movies. You must not, you shouldn't go to a bar.

It's setting a bad example. It's the appearance of evil. And I started applying all these principles and say, it's about obedience. Well, then you'd be in real trouble. You'd be exercising legalism at that point, right?

And today, that would not be popular. Everyone would reject it. Everyone would reject it if simply I said that the chief end of man is to obey God. They would reject that too. Because modern Christians, so-called Christians in modern evangelicalism, that's not what they're, they're not about that.

It would not be a popular philosophy if I tried to craft some kind of Christian stoicism. Stoicism doesn't sell today, but you know what does? Hedonism. Hedonism definitely sells. That's what we're getting from the world.

That's the philosophy of the world. So why wouldn't it be a popular thing in the church? Now, I could sell some books if I did that. And I'm not saying that's Piper's purposes to sell books at all. I'm not doing that.

I think Piper really, I think he had a real awakening. That's the word he uses. I think he really did see that there was something lacking in his life. And I think he wanted to help people. I do think that was his motive.

Here's some quotes from Piper. This is Christian hedonism. Chief end of God is to glorify God and enjoy himself forever. Okay. Does God enjoy himself? Yeah, yeah. Okay. True? Yeah, I guess that's true to some extent.

God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him. Well, is that true? I mean, we are supposed to be satisfied in God in the sense that we're supposed to have joy. Now, Piper's kind of loose.

He uses joy and happiness and, yeah, satisfaction kind of interchangeably. But, you know, God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied with him. Yeah, I could go with that, I guess. To be born again is to taste that God is more to be desired than anything.

That's what he says. Now, you might start to realize at this point, isn't the emphasis a little off here, though? I mean, those things are important, but is that, I mean, is it a one-to-one comparison?

Glorification, satisfaction, same thing in every sense? To be born again is to taste that God is more to be desired than anything? That's the definition? I mean, I guess I could see that your desires change as you're born again, but what does Scripture say?

Where do you find this in the Scripture? Well, John 3 talks about being born again. Jesus is talking to Nicodemus, and what does he say it is? It's belief. It's whoever believes in him has eternal life.

That's what being born again is. That's the process. As Moses lifted up the serpent, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up. It's about faith. So we're kind of, we're making a lot of conclusions based on logical constructs, but we're not using biblical language.

We're not going back to the Scripture on this and the passages that actually talk about being born again. Here's another quote from Piper. You go to hell if you're not happy in God, and he bases this on Deuteronomy 28, 47, and 48.

Now, if you read the preceding verse, and this is gonna be key, I wanted to bring up this verse for a reason, because I think it exposes kind of the emphasis problem. You're gonna find that it's not, the emphasis is not being joyful here.

Let me read it to you. So all these curses shall come on you and pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you would not obey the Lord, your God, by keeping his commandments and his statutes, which he commanded you.

They shall become a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever, because you did not serve the Lord, your God, with your joy and a glad heart for the abundance of all things. Therefore, you shall serve your enemies, whom the Lord will send against you.

Now, listen to this. First you have, the problem is, you would not obey the Lord, your God, by keeping his commandments and his statutes, which he commanded. Okay, Christian stoicism, right? You did not, you just didn't fulfill a duty.

But hold on. He also says, because you did not serve the Lord, your God, with joy and a glad heart for the abundance of all things. So you weren't actually worshiping with a heart that sought to have joy in God.

You, Christian hedonism, we could say there, right? Well, which is it? Which is it? Well, Piper just quotes the part that fits his Christian hedonism. But if I just wanted to quote, let's say verse 45, I would quote the part that fits my Christian stoicism.

And is either philosophy going to give you the full picture? The answer is no. That's why I think this is an emphasis problem. And this emphasis problem can manifest itself in other areas, in ways that are problems.

Joy is one aspect of the fruit of the Spirit. John 15, eight. My father was glorified by this, that you bear much fruit. So prove to be my disciples. So how has God glorified? That you bear much fruit.

Okay. What's the fruit of the Spirit? Galatians 5. Well, it's love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. There it is, self-control. Must be Christian stoicism.

No. Well, there it is. Joy must be Christian hedonism. Well, no. Fruit of the Spirit is love. And under that umbrella of joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

Against such things, there is no law. This is part of the law. The principles behind the law, the character of God behind the law are these things. So why is any of this important, especially as it relates to the social justice movement?

Well, I'm gonna give you a little testimony of my own and explain how I'm approaching this. When I was deeply involved in Christian hedonism and trying to just really drum up joy in myself and disappointed at myself, because I just could not maintain the level of joy.

I get little glimpses here or there, I felt like, and it was always eluding me. It left me high and dry. It just really, I was so disappointed. I thought the Christian life must just be, it's just impossible, which it is.

Like you can't actually obey the commands of God either. You can't have perfect joy, but you can't perfectly obey his law. And this was a burden. Now, maybe you say that was my fault. Well, okay. I know a lot of other people that had the same kind of issue though.

And what essentially was happening was every little thing I looked at in my life, right? Whether we eat or drink, whatever we do, we're supposed to do all to glorify God. What that meant, because of the Christian hedonism understanding I had, was I had to just, in an abstract way, kind of filter everything through this grid so that in my mind, I would be having joy.

So I'd examine myself and I'd navel gaze. And I'd think, John, did you have joy when you drank that lemonade? Oh my goodness, you weren't thinking about God. I didn't think about God when I had that lemonade.

I guess I didn't have joy. Oh no, Lord, please forgive me, I failed. And that's, I mean, it's a miserable way to live, but I was living that way. I still, I'll be honest with you, I still sometimes have that tendency to go back into that.

And this isn't the way that we're supposed to live as Christians. Jesus also said, my burden is easy, my yoke is light. Why did he say that? Well, glorifying God isn't necessarily pushing everything through this grid in your mind and trying to sanctify it by, really, that's what's happening.

You are the one sanctifying it by some kind of almost mystical incantation, this abstract thing that you're doing by repeating mentally, I'm having, Lord, I'm having joy in this, or I thank you for this, and Lord, please give me joy in this, and just, well, who are you focusing on when you try to do that yourself?

That's who you're focusing on. It's me-centered, ultimately. And that's where you can, that's where this at least brought me. I was trying to focus on God, but because I knew that joy, and an emotional joy too, was so important, I was always examining myself, looking at myself, wondering, was I joyful enough?

How do I get to be joyful? And what I've learned is that you don't focus on yourself. You focus on the Lord, and the fruit of the Spirit is joy. You're filled with the Spirit, which is letting the word of Christ dwell within you.

You read the word of God, immerse yourself as much as possible in the word of God. You can't do it all day, I get that. You pray regularly, you live the Christian life, and yeah, you get your feet dirty in this world, and you confess it, but you don't overthink it, and you don't, as much as you want to be perfect, be perfect, for I am perfect, says the Lord, you know you don't achieve that.

Paul didn't achieve it. He was an apostle. If he didn't achieve it, I don't think we're achieving it. Not in this life. It comes in the next life. So it's an attitude of being grateful to God. And that's why, even in sin, I'm just, Lord, thank you.

Thank you for, you've blessed me so much. I fell in that moment, I said something I shouldn't have, but I could have fallen so much more. I know you restrained me, thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord, that you sent your son, and that's ultimately where joy comes from, is understanding that Jesus has paid my fine.

That's the good news of the gospel. It's not good news when you're constantly on that treadmill of trying to make sure that you have an experience of joy. So that's just, I'm just throwing that out there personally for you who have had a similar experience to maybe the experience I've had.

And not everyone has that. I get some people read his stuff, John Piper's stuff, and they say, oh, I should have more joy, and they go on, and they don't obsess over it, and that's great. Praise God for that, all right?

Not knocking that. But what I've inevitably seen happen is that a lot of people influenced by John Piper and David Platt's teaching in Radical, I'll give you the story. I was at a Desiring God conference years ago at Rick Warren's church.

I didn't attend there, I just, I went there for the conference. I live in California at the time. John Piper was asked the question. I was close to him at the time. He said, they asked him, is it a sin to buy a new car?

John Piper said, yes. Now, that was my turning point. That was when I was like, wait a minute, something's off here. David Platt kind of has a similar teaching in Radical. In fact, when I was doing some research on Ron Sider, I found out John Piper had quoted Ron Sider favorably in one of his sermons.

And I thought, this is all interesting. This kind of, you know, the American dream is bad, collecting your seashells by the seashore, bad, you're wasting your life. The implication here, guys, if it's not said directly, the implication is you are in sin for these things, these external actions.

The insinuation is that it's idolatry. Having that picket fence in that house, that's idolatry. Picking up seashells by the seashell for retirement, idolatry. Buying a new car, idolatry. And the fact is those things in and of themselves are not idolatry.

And calling something evil that God does not call evil is wrong. It's wrong. It's adding. It's what the Pharisees did. Subverting the law of God for the sake of tradition. It's adding to the law, right?

And perhaps personally for you, that's not a good idea. You will idolize your car. You will worship your car. Your life will revolve around your car. It's not like that for everyone. And if you understand how just a basic market economy works, you understand that buying a new car is not, it's not like you're just, oh, you're such a waste of money.

You could have just fed the children in Africa. Well, yeah, you could feed the children in Africa, but do you realize where all that money's going? It's not, it doesn't go into a vacuum and disappear.

It goes into the pockets of those marketing, producing, advertising. All the people involved in getting that new car to you are now, they're feeding their families off of it. I don't know if people understand that, but it's not a sin to buy a new car.

It's not a sin to have a nice house. If you can afford those things, praise God. It is a blessing. It is a blessing. And if you choose not to, that's fine too. There's nothing wrong with that. But we're at a point now, and this is where it intertwines with the social justice stuff a little bit.

Idolatry becomes this, something that is used to flatline sin. The American dream can be idolatry. American nationalism, we hear that, that's idolatry. Trump, you know, state worship and loving Trump too much is idolatry, right?

This is how the social justice warriors you weaponize the term idolatry to try to just fit anything that they don't like into that category. What happens if you accept Christian hedonism, I believe, is you rearrange the hierarchy.

Instead of joy being one fruit of the spirit, being something, yes, we should have in God, it becomes the top of the chart. It becomes the end all, be all. And what that does is you create a new hierarchy and it can flatline things that are underneath of it.

In fact, now, like I just said, buying a new car could be wrong in some way. It's insinuated that it could be sinful in some way. And so having joy is the main thing. Now, someone who has, let's say, same-sex attraction or a homosexual orientation of some kind, right?

Against the created order. This isn't how God intended for things to be. It's not how he created things to be. This is actually a Freudian concept that this kind of orientation exists. Accepting that category and saying, well, I'm a same-sex attracted Christian, right?

Well, as long as you're pursuing your ultimate joy in God, then that can be kind of washed away. That can be sanctified. That's not a bad thing. As long as you're not giving into those desires and technically breaking a command of God.

And at the root level, your heart is, everything's being put through that grid of joy in your mind then having that orientation, that's not really sinful. Now, we find in scripture itself, you go to Colossians 3, 5, put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to earthly nature, sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry.

So desires is part of this. And I just quoted from the NIV. I shouldn't have done that. I don't usually quote from the NIV. Let's see if I can get a better translation here of Colossians 3, 5 for you.

New American standard says this. Therefore, consider the members of your earthly bodies that immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. Passion, evil desire, mortify those things.

Consider the members of your body dead to those things. That's what we're told in scripture to do. We got to attack these things, buffet our bodies the way Paul said, discipline ourselves for the sake of righteousness.

So that means, and I'm not putting it, because scripture doesn't do that, I'm not putting this in a category of orientation. I'll put it in a category of sinful thoughts. If you have sinful thoughts about someone else, sinful desires, I mean, that's what a sinful thought is, right?

You have this, you have a desire to do something sinful, then you are called to mortify that. And so in the moment, you discipline yourself. You say, Lord, I'm sorry. Just like if you were, let's say gluttony was your issue, and I really want, man, I want food right now, but you know what?

It's wrong for me, it's gluttony. I find my comfort in that. In fact, it's a health risk. I'm damaging my body, which is irresponsible to my family. I can't go and eat that, that cherry pie or whatever it is you want.

Well, what do you do in that moment? You say, well, I'm just, I'm an obese Christian, I guess. It's my orientation, and I just got to find my deepest joy in the Lord to overcome that desire for cherry pie.

My desire in the Lord must be more. No, no, you say in the moment, Lord, I confess this evil desire. I don't want to desire this right now because I love my family and I love you, Lord. And I know this is a sinful desire within me.

Please forgive me. And you go on and you put on something else. You replace that thing with something else. I'm going to go and I'm going to read my Bible right now. I'm going to go and I'm going to do my job right now.

I'm going to do something else. Occupy my mind with something different than that. That's what you do. That's hard work, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. But you're not sitting there and being like, oh man, my desire for this.

That's the real problem is just that my desire for sexual relationship, it's too strong. My desire for God must be stronger and somehow replace that desire for a sexual. No, God gave you a desire for a sexual relationship.

He gave you a desire for food. He gave you all kinds of desires. Those aren't bad desires in and of themselves. We're not playing a game of competing desires. These are natural. These are things God gave you.

They're part of the created order. Now you could try to fulfill those desires in ways that God has not authorized. That is the sin. If you're thinking of fulfilling those ways and those things in ways God has not authorized, that is a sin.

Sinful, sinful desire. You get rid of it. That's what you do. I hope I'm being clear enough on this. I'm trying to illustrate it for you as much as I can. But I was on that hamster wheel and it's a hard hamster wheel to be on.

It's not merciful. It really isn't. And I'm just so grateful that there's many people who read John Piper and they don't come away with that. But if you read them carefully, then you can see why people come away with that because it lends itself to that.