November 3, 2020 Show with Roger Salter on “George Whitefield & Unconditional Election”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy election day, here in the United States anyway, on this Tuesday, 3rd of November, 2020.

And it's somewhat comical now that I reflect upon it, and quite providential that my guest today, Reverend Roger Salter, Rector of St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, chose the subject, George Whitefield and unconditional election.

And I don't think that that was planned to be a pun today, since it is election day here in the United States. But it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Reverend Roger Salter.

And mind-stimulating as well, today being election day.

Oh, you did? Okay.

I thought that would make it an apt topic. Elections are only for four years, divine election is forever.

Amen.

And one is extremely flawed, no matter which way the election turns out, and the other is a perfect divine act. But not that those who are elect by God are perfect. But if you could, let our listeners know about St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama.

Well, we are from the Church of England in 1990, St. Matthew's for that length of time, group than we used to be. Concept enormous.

Amen. Amen. Well, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Just to say we do meet it.

Well, I want to let our listeners know that if you want to find out more about St. Matthew's Anglican Church of Birmingham, Alabama, you can go to stmanglican .weebly .com. That's STM, an abbreviation for St. Matthew's.

Anglican .weebly .com. And you can also go to rogersalter .com, and salter is spelt S-A-L-T-E-R, no P as in the sacred and canonical hymn book in the Old Testament. And you spoke the last time on this program highlighting the teaching of George Whitefield, the great Calvinist Methodist Anglican of the 18th century.

And you have chosen to revisit George Whitefield, but on a different subtopic, the topic of unconditional election. And if you could, first of all, give our listeners who may be unfamiliar with George Whitefield a summary of who this great man of God was.

George Whitefield and Unconditional Election

Well, I believe—.

Yes, we've interviewed him on that and gave some of his books away.

Yes, I think you still regarded him to make up and close their doors.

Oh, that's fascinating. In fact, one of my favorite biographies is titled—in fact, if you don't have it, I would urge you to get a hold of it. It's out of print, I think, but there are still used copies available on Amazon.

It's called A Pastor in New York, the Life and Times of Spencer Cone. And Spencer Cone was a particular Baptist pastor in New York City in the 19th century, pastor of First Baptist Church of Manhattan.

And he, before coming to Christ, was a stage actor, amongst other things. And he was compelled at the time to leave that profession because at that time Christians, or at least many Christians, viewed it as an ungodly career.

So he departed from that and followed the pursuit of entering the ministry, which he eventually did. But it's a fascinating biography by John Thornberry, a very brilliant and precious brother in Christ, who's actually a personal friend, who is a really knowledgeable historian.

And that biography so moved me and so riveted me that I think somebody should make a movie out of it. But anyway, that's another issue for another time. Now, what is it uniquely about George Whitefield's belief and application of divine election or unconditional election that we should take note of today?

You're not just doing the program on divine election or unconditional election, you're talking about George Whitefield's belief and application of it. And perhaps we could even start, or should start, with a definition of what exactly you mean and what, historically, those reformers who believed in unconditional election, what is meant by that?

Yes.

David, my name's Chris, brother.

That's because I'm looking at the name. I just remembered Chris. Okay. Yes, and going back to a definition of unconditional election,.

I think one of the reasons why people are baffled to learn that George Whitefield and even the great prince of preachers who lived a century later, Charles Spurgeon, many people who are not reformed are baffled that these two men believed in unconditional election because these men fervently and vociferously and passionately pled with sinners to repent.

And those who are not reformed think that that's oxymoronic or self-contradictory. They think that if God has divinely elected unconditionally before the foundation of the world, all who will be accompanying him in heaven, those who are as elect, they think that to preach in such a passionate way, to preach it all and or evangelize it all is a waste of time.

But obviously God uses the means of preaching, which he commanded to draw the lost to Christ. And one of the things I should probably clarify, something I said in my opening statements when I was contrasting when I was contrasting unconditional election with the election that takes place in a country like the United States, when people are voting for a candidate, both things are sovereignly controlled by God.

I didn't want to give the impression that unconditional election was controlled by God and the election of a political candidate is not. They are both divinely orchestrated and ordained by God. But the difference is, in an election such as we are going to be having here in this country, human choices are used by God to bring about that which he has ordained.

Whereas unconditional election did not involve our choices at all. Because if we were elected in him before the foundations of the world, obviously our choice had nothing to do with it, unlike the Arminian understanding of election, where sinners elect God, basically, because God is looking through the corridors of time, looking into the future and seeing who will choose him, and therefore he elects on that basis.

We reject that as being a circular reason for our choice. And being just a false teaching. But if you could, anything further that you'd like to say about unconditional election, since it is the core of our discussion?

If we want to usurp in a way the time, unlike the political election of perceived merits, the way canceled is a tremendous sense of assurance.

Now, would you not say that one of the reasons, this is an extremely important issue, although I am the first to say as a Calvinist, that I embrace my Arminian brethren as brethren, even though they reject the teaching of unconditional election, that it is still a very important issue, because whether it's a conscious thing or an unconscious thing, if you reject unconditional election, and you have to believe in the concept of election, because it's clearly a biblical one, if you believe in the inerrancy of scripture and so on, and of course, if you don't believe in the inerrancy of scripture, I have a hard time believing you're actually a regenerate person, a born again individual.

But if you reject unconditional election, then you really are forced to believe, whether you recognize it or not, that God is choosing some people over others because of something good within them. And in this case, it would be choosing those that were good enough, religious enough, self-aware enough, whatever the reason was that they chose Christ, there was something superior in them to their neighbor that rejected Christ, and God is choosing them on that basis of something innately superior in them, whereas we who are reformed, altogether reject that, and it's not only a false teaching, but it's a dangerous one, isn't it?

Yes, it is. I mean, Charles Spurgeon did make him wonder his greatest faith in Christ and Arminian believers in the sense that they could not.

Actually, I do not have that.

And we're going...

Yeah, we're not... Unlike the slanderous caricature and accusation of those who hate what we believe, God does not make us robots. He does not force upon us either a belief in Christ or sinful rebellion.

We are not neutral people that God forces either way on a whim. He gives us a willing heart when we are saved through a heart transplant when he removes our heart of stone and gives us a heart of flesh.

And we would otherwise willfully reject him to follow our own desires. So it is an act of rescue where all humans willingly and even joyfully and gleefully follow their will, but it is a will that cannot please God in the flesh, as the Bible clearly states.

So therefore, God has to rescue some of us and he chooses to save a certain portion of his elect not for anything lovely or attractive or good within those sinners' hearts and minds, but just for the sheer good pleasure of his will.

Yes.

And we have to go to our first break, so I'll let you pick up where you left off there. Don't forget where you left off so we can make sure that you give the point that you wanted to make. If anybody wants to join us with a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Harnson, your host of Iron Trump and Zion Radio. And our guest today, if you just tuned in,.

Is Roger Salter,.

Who is rector of St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama. We are discussing George Whitefield and unconditional election. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisharnson at gmail .com.

C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you disagree with your own pastor over something we're discussing today, and you don't want to identify yourself. Perhaps you're even a pastor yourself. You disagree with your co-elders. You disagree with your denomination over something that we're discussing.

Well, we could readily understand things like that would compel you to remain anonymous. But if it's just a general question, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

Roger, you were about to say something right before the break.

Yes, and I've forgotten what it was, Chris.

Of course.

...whereby God is greatly edified and comforted. And he plainly declares that they who do not believe it cannot hold aright the scripture doctrine of... And this is Eliot speaking. And for my own part, and when any man posed... I think it's the... ...by you, objections of my natural host...

Yes, I was very pleased that a dear friend of mine who is not theologically reformed, in fact, he's fairly well known amongst those in the churches of Christ, Dr. F. Lagarde Smith, who's been a friend of mine since the 80s.

But he wrote a book called Troubling Questions for Calvinists. And he had the humility to add to the subtitle and all the rest of us. But he admitted in his book that he had no answer to Acts 13, 48. And those who were ordained unto eternal life believed.

The order that is stated in there, those who were ordained unto eternal life believed. Not those who believed were ordained unto eternal life, but those who are already ordained unto eternal life are the ones that believed.

And he admitted that he had no answer for that. And he admitted that all of the attempts by non-Calvinists to explain that passage or refute a Calvinist understanding of it, he believed were eisegesis, that people were actually importing something in the text that didn't exist.

So I'm glad that he at least had the humility and the honesty to put that in his book. And I just wanted to give you a shout out. My brother, Dr. Efflegard Smith, my brother who has disagreed with me over these things for years, but has nonetheless remained a friend of mine.

Yeah.

We do have a question from Bruce in Hoover, Alabama. And Bruce says, Chris and Roger, thank you for this excellent dialogue on unconditional election, which seems to be largely and consistently and regularly avoided in the American church.

At least the vast majority I've had experience with or attended. My question follows this, hopefully not too lengthy introduction to the previous premise. My theory is that while there may be many reasons why this is so, one of the main reasons is that churches, pastors, denominations, they simply avoid the truth of this because number one, they don't want to deal with all the difficult questions they have to deal with from their congregations.

And number two, can't handle or provide the answers to the questions people will bring them. And number three, are afraid that they lose control when they preach the truth of election because they can't sell to their flock anymore that you must attend my church so you will be saved.

And number four, they will not be able to grow their congregation as sustained and maintain lofty goals for financial budgets. If this theory were valid, what could you tell pastors who had fears on how to properly preach unconditional election effectively and regularly to their congregations?

Thank you for keep charging Bruce from Hoover, Alabama. Well, do you have an answer for Bruce?

Well, it's good to be in touch with Bruce again.

Not anymore.

And I don't think we'll analyze it by God. I think there are a lot of. Chris,.

Of course,.

To say, come into the vestry and I'll give you $50. They won't get it. Human nature loves money, but inability is noticed and commanding us probably under being misunderstood. They'll have the alternative enslavement of the lusts of being in love.

And forgiveness and majesty, that changes the direction of our heart and of our desire.

Amen.

Matthew 11. You know, Jesus tells us that he is the one who has.

In fact, if you could write down, so we don't forget it, Matthew 11, so that we can return to that when we return from our midway break. We have to get to our longer than normal break now, folks, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them localizing Iron Trump and Zion Radio and all of their programming to Lake City, Florida.

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Please write down as much of the information as possible provided by our advertisers. Please, if you're listening to this on a recording, don't fast forward through the ads because we need you to respond to our advertisers so that they are happy enough to remain our advertisers because without our advertisers, we will not exist.

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And also use this time to write down questions to send them to Roger Salter on Unconditional Election and specifically George Whitfield on Unconditional Election. And our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line. Webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York.

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Was your business shut down during the COVID -19 pandemic, depriving you of earning any money, causing you to default on your rent as you try to survive without income? Maybe you've had to close your doors for good.

The good news, you thought, was that you purchased business interruption insurance as a part of your business liability policy with a major insurance company who told you they are a good neighbor or that you would be in good hands.

You filed a claim only to be told that it was denied due to the pandemic exclusion clause. The pandemic exclusion? Since 2006, most insurance companies.

Added this clause.

To enable them to deny your income loss claims in the event of a worldwide pandemic. Do not give up. No matter what state you live in, call Buttafuoco Associates now at 1 -800 -669 -4878. Buttafuoco Associates is a part of a large multi-district litigation and they are working with lead counsel to bring what they believe will be a successful lawsuit for these claims.