The Danger of “Gay Christianity,” Islamicize Me Redux, a Bit More on the SBC

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00:42

Greetings and welcome to the dividing line have a lot to get to today wanted to have open phones today, but I Was I was told we could not do that.

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I will not name any names You know, there's just so many people involved with this particular

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Program and ministry that as long as you don't name names no more have any idea who you might be referring to so that's that's very helpful to be able to to do that, but anyway

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Mmm, I was gonna do that. But like I said, we've got other we've got things in the way

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Evidently being able to do that. So we will not be able to take your phone calls today Please address all complaints to other people in the ministry.

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So with that we have other stuff to talk about and We have a lot of stuff to talk about actually

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Gonna go back over some things from yesterday because I've been pretty amazed at some of the responses

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That we have gotten from from just yesterday's program and Who would have thought that saying completely uncontroversial things 10 15 years ago would today, you know bring out the the torches and the and and everything else.

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It's things are things are changing fast and I'd sort of sometimes just wish it would slow down just a little bit, but that doesn't seem to be be happening

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One of the things I want to address is I have been Hearing about this revoice conference and I've read a number of articles

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I Saw the Covenant Seminary Commentary on it statement about it

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And I don't remember it. I think it's been within the past year Maybe a little more than that.

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I read a book by a

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Self -identified same -sex attracted Christian individual and I reviewed it on the program and at the time

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I again noted the reality of same -sex attraction and The concern that I had that it seemed to becoming mainstreamed that this is something that Should be expected to be the normative

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Identifying factor in a person's experience and at hands they either need to choose as a

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Christian to not

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Engage in The fulfillment of said desires a life of celibacy Which of course is what

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Matthew Vines and the others say is unfair It's you know you have to be given that gift if you don't have that gift then you should be given the freedom to be able to Have intimacy even if that means a violation of Christian sexual ethics in in the

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New Testament But one of the big issues that's coming up when

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I when I see the phrase gay Christianity I'm mostly accustomed to seeing that from the likes of the

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Reformation Project movement with Matthew Vines and people like that people that are saying no

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God made me this way and It's it's good and it's proper and As long as it's monogamous, then it's okay because everything in the

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Bible is about something other than Same -sex attraction and fulfillment of same -sex attraction desires so to see this coming into What was?

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Once what we might call Orthodox spaces I realize the vast majority of Church members in Reformed churches whether it be the conservative

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Wing of the PCA and you've got to start identifying that because there there's the non -conservative wing of the

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PCA You know just just any looking at denominations in the

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United States Baptists Presbyterians, it's the same process over and over and over and over and over and over and over again

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There is just a constant Leftward turn That eventually results in those who will not go with the next step of compromise leaving

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Starting over again normally with less and less and less because it's the liberals that keep all the endowments and everything else

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But History shows this to be just the reality of How things are in the in the conservative element of the

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PCA the OPC the other conservative Presbyterian groups the conservative

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Baptists not not the American Baptists or people like that that you know head head left at a breakneck speed to see

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The acceptance of this phraseology of gay Christianity There is a fundamental problem in my mind in attaching to the term

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Christianity a Sinful Identifier like Gluttonous Christianity or Angry Christianity or Covetous Christianity or murderous

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Christianity or thieving Christianity or none of these none of these would make any sense

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But people say but the difference here is we're talking about something that actually identifies the individual as they have been created by God and therefore now of course

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People in you know in all of those Sins and in the entire range of sexual sin could make the same argument and I really wonder if people have thought through this but People in those conservative churches have not been exposed until now

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To the kind of mindset that identifies these things as identifying markers

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I've read far too many books Far more than I ever wanted to on the subject of Homosexuality and people defending it and and and all the things associated with it since 2000

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I was about I think it was right around two so over the past almost 20 years I Certainly haven't read all of them and I don't know that anyone could they're coming out so rapidly anymore that I think it would

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Be it would be a full -time job but It just strikes me that There hasn't been a lot of thought on many people's part none of us had to be thinking about this not too many decades ago

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In any serious fashion it just there wasn't any movement to mainstream this kind of stuff

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So many of us have really not thought through what the difference is about homosexuality

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Why is it that the Apostle could Specifically utilize

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Homosexuality in Romans chapter 1 as an illustration. What was he illustrating? What was the issue? Well, let's let's take a look at it

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Romans chapter 1 You may recall About a year ago.

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We started going through a presentation that dr. Brownson had made we never finished it We got to the point where we explained his fundamental error in Trying to cram

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Paul's teaching into a stoic Philosophical concept rather than the

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Old Testament, which is clearly its background And we never finished it up because it was sort of like well

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We got the heart of the matter other things came up. We never never finished it One of the many things I've done like that,

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I'm afraid But It has been a little while since we walked through Romans chapter 1 if you have my book the

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God who justifies I spent quite some time on Romans 1 as a background and foundation for dealing with Romans 2 and Romans 3

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Which I think is important in dealing with justification as a whole but after the introduction of The the fact that sin

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Impacts Man's self -knowledge it impacts all of man so that even his reasoning even his thinking is

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Impacted by being separated from out of fellowship With the source of his life the source of his meaning

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For example verse 21 for even though they knew God They did not honor him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations and Their foolish heart was darkened and so speculations the the very

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Term Dialogous moist And their hearts becoming a

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Sunni toss without understanding That's the that's the central core of man's being

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That's as intimate as it gets sin is not just external to us. It's not just what goes on around us

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It is very very internal It has impacted us and I really think part of the part of the defensive defenselessness the defenselessness of Many churches today to the influx of this identity politics

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Leftist worldview leaning Attack is because many of those churches have not had a true biblical anthropology

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If you have a true biblical theology doctrine of God then it's going to give you a lot better position to come up with a true biblical

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Anthropology a doctrine of man and a recognition of the impact of sin a hamarty ology a study of sin and the impact upon upon man and the result is the darkening of the reasoning the resulting in in in foolishness

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Futility emptiness in man's thoughts and man, all you gotta do is go on on Social media and say almost anything and you'll get to see a good example of of that.

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I mean I wasn't this doesn't This is sort of related. Did you see that guy who was fired from CrossFit because as a minister he had said online that it is sinful and The way he put it was he didn't say it was sinful to celebrate gay pride

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But the point was that it's sinful to be prideful It happened to be in reference to a gay pride event and everybody's just assumed that but the actions that was sinful to be proud

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Can you imagine anyone only 50 years ago? Getting fired for saying that it's sinful to to be prideful to celebrate pride

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Can you imagine that how far We have fallen as a as a society

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But man CrossFit got could have got rid of him quick You can't have can't have

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Christians working in your companies. Not if you want to be cutting -edge, you know Even though all you're doing is doing workout stuff and stuff like that.

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But anyway their foolish hearts have been have been darkened and as a result there has this exchange of the glory of the incorruptible

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God For an image in the form of corruptible man of birds forefoot animals and crawling creatures. In other words man is a worshipping creature and That Impulse to worship is going to be expressed whether it is

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If it's not directed toward the one true God then it's going to be directed at the creation and This is what takes place

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Then he gives an illustration of this and people go, you know that the standard thing you're gonna hear on on the interwebs these days is

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Well, see this doesn't have anything to do with loving monogamous Homosexual relationships or with faithful homosexuals.

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This is only about idolatrous homosexuals. Well, that's Not how anyone who has the background of the

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Old Testament in mind as you have to for interpreting Paul on anything else anybody who tries to separate that out from Paul is

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Obviously trying to avoid an element of his teaching that they don't like So So I'm gonna have to keep that I'm gonna have to keep that Tweet that I just saw up there.

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I will definitely be responding to Joseph the Berean I'll be responding to you in just a little while Let Joseph the

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Berean on Twitter know That I'm going to read his tweet on the dividing line and I'm going to demonstrate that he is no

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Berean He has no clue what being a Berean is So let

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Joseph know somebody pop on Twitter. Let Joseph the Berean know that he might want to tune in because What he said

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Demonstrates he has no clue what the Bereans actually did But we'll get to that So back to the the issue here, so Why would

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Paul having just said what he said Use homosexuality as an illustration

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Well, I think it's very important to recognize that the reason that he does this is

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That there is something about homosexuality that illustrates the point that he's making in this section and the point that he's been making is the

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Core of man's being is impacted by sin. It's right there

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What makes man man? Is Impacted by sin

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So we read therefore God and Paretican is from paradidomi.

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That's the same term that's used to of the betrayal of Jesus. It's to give over But here it's

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God gave them over in the desires of their hearts unto uncleanness or impurity that is the dishonoring of their bodies amongst themselves

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So there is a and the the Soma is pretty much definitely the the issue of the physical body so there is a dishonoring of That in which has has been made in the image of God that the the

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Soma top for they exchanged and and Aleksin Mateleksin, that's just a a

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Strengthened form of the exchange motif that's here in Romans 1 for they exchanged the truth of God for the lie or in the lie and Worshipped and served the creature or the creation

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Rather than the creator who is blessed forever Amen so there is a

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Exchange that has gone on an exchanging of the truth of God for the lie this is

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Necessary if you are not in right relationship to God you have to you don't want the truth of God about your own rebellion

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Don't want the truth of God regarding Your coming judgment and so you exchange it for something else

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Now For this reason de Attuta God gave them over same power did to me unto

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Pothae Atami us anyone remember when I asked Barry Lynn Yo those 17 years ago

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About what Pothae Atami us meant and Because he was trying to say there's two different sin lists and you know

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Some are just expected things and that the data and it just made absolutely no sense So it's like so so can you so degrading passions?

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Is that a sin or not a sin? Yeah, he had no

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Obviously he had gotten way too used to being on on liberal media and being tossed, you know

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Or taking on Christians who? Would never challenge him That's why by the end of that debate.

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He was Not a happy camper and it wasn't just at the end of the bait either as the lawsuit resulting lawsuit later on indicate anyway

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For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions passions of dishonor

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Pothae Atami us Hi take our

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I I think hi take our They lie,

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I they're they're women I Think the best way to for even their women.

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I think there is a There there's actually I think an honoring of women and what is said here, you know why

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Because the idea is that It is shocking and amazing

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That the woman with her maternal instinct the woman with her focus upon Family and children and nurture and all the things that God has equipped her to be

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That even women Could be impacted at the very center point of their being

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So as to twist and turn we've been the whole thing in Romans 1 is about the creator creation relationship so as to twist and turn at that very issue that very that very element and so for even their women

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Exchange and there's your Metaxan again that this is the this is the term that's that's either in the strengthened form here or the or the less strengthened form

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It's being used throughout Romans 1 the exchange the exchange. So even their women exchanged the fusicane the

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Natural crecen function for that which is para fusen Now the only

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I'm not gonna go back over this but the only sensical Consistently exegetical way if you were in if you were talking about anything else with Paul You'd go to the

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Old Testament here. You'd go to you'd get go to the parameters that are laid out by the Tanakh This is the natural he's already and he's already in Romans 1 been paralleling paralleling creation narrative language anyway, so the natural function for that which is unnatural and The the honest way of reading this is this is the only reference in the

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Bible to lesbianism Exchanging a natural function for that which is unnatural. That's that's just all there is to it.

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So The the point is that this exchange is not just external.

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It's not just minor it is definitional once the creator creation relationship gets broken and twisted

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It touches all the way to the very core identity of even the woman with her beautiful created

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God -given Ability to nurture life. She stops nurturing life.

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And if you haven't if you didn't see that last week in Ireland, you weren't looking You weren't looking

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Every time as Western culture just flies off the cliff towards self -destruction and the culture of death is victorious

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When you'd see these women Rejoicing and being granted the ability to murder their offspring

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There there it is. There's there's Romans 1 there's Romans 1 So That which is unnatural

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And in the same way, so the parallel holds in the same way likewise also the men

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Abandoning the Natural function of the woman that I mean that since since it's

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Homoios here and Natural functional woman is obvious. We know exactly what that is.

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We're talking about sexual relationships here. No question about it So that that reads back into the proceeding if anyone's trying to get verse 26 to mean something else the man abandoned the natural function of the woman and This is not about pederasty this is not about anything like that Burned in their desire toward one another this is mutual homosexual desire

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It's the only way you can read it men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error the point of the illustration is

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Not to condemn homosexuality because in Paul's mind that was already given that was already given

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His high view of the law the moral and ethical content of the law his high view of the law

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Made that a given You're not you're not throwing out the moral content of the law

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The same Apostle who in 1st Corinthians chapter 5 holds the Corinthians accountable for what the

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Holiness Code said about incest Clearly held the same views in regards to homosexuality which then comes out in 1st

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Corinthians 6 and 1st Timothy 1 but He's not introducing that here because that isn't even a question

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It's not necessary for him to be repeating the Old Testament law that's the the moral content is a given sorry to some of my

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Friends who don't who think that the New Testament has to repeat everything from the Old Testament for it to be valid anymore

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That's not the case He's not introducing something new here.

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He's using it as an illustration Yes, God has already said this is wrong.

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This is not how I created you But what it's illustrating in his argument is how deeply to the very core of the human being sin can go now

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Some people looking at this text say well Then there's no reason to evangelize

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Homosexuals because it says God has given them over But you have to let Paul speak for Paul 1st

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Corinthians chapter 6 He mentions homosexuality and says such were some of you but you were cleansed you were justified your salvation came to those individuals and They were cleansed.

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It says such were some of you not such are Some of you and that brings us to why

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I've been talking about all this for nearly half an hour now specifically

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Is Homosexuality in Any way different than any other sin?

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it seems that people are trying to promote the idea that You know, it's it's just the same as As any other sexual sin so if if a husband or a wife

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Falls into immorality in a marriage There is infidelity that takes place sexual sin outside of marriage

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It's just the same as if homosexuality takes place and the desire

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For sex between a man and a woman is Directly parallel to the desire for sex between two men or two women.

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There's no difference As long as it's in marriage, but it can't be in marriage for same -sex couples is in the

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Christian ethic and so You have to be chaste and you have to be celibate But here's the question is the desire

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No different It seems that many people are functioning on the basis that the desire there's no difference in the desire

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And this is where I have to go There is a difference in the desire

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The desire of a man to have sexual intercourse with a woman is a natural desire

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It becomes inordinate Excessive when that desire is outside of marriage

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But it remains a natural if If Overdriven or excessive desire, but it's still it's still a natural desire.

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There is a fundamental difference between Having a natural attraction to a beautiful woman and having a natural attraction to a horse there's a fundamental difference and I would hope we're not quite to the point yet Where someone would argue that there is no difference there

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That it would be you know, if someone happens to have that kind of desire that You know as long as they don't act on it

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Then It's not sinful. No, that is, you know, the the

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Roman Church in its magisterial documents has referred to homosexuality as a disordered desire because it is

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It's you know Confusion. Tevil is the is the Hebrew term From the

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Old Testament. It's confusion. It's confusion of categories. It's confusion of the created categories of order which is we find right here the natural use because there's a creator who defines these things and so The desire you all saw, you know in In The social media last week,

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I think it was last week. Well the past few weeks. It's been a little bit hard to follow In the social media of the past few weeks.

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There was a story about this guy I think in Virginia or somewhere back east or south or something openly promoting pedophilia

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Abuse of women just this a complete sexual pervert if you can even use that term anymore. I mean

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That that term used to have meaning I'm not sure that it does anymore in our society but There was outrage

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I Don't know how long there will logically be able to be any outrage towards something like that We recognize that is absolutely disordered.

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It is it is inappropriate. It is wrong To have a desire

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Like that man has expressed So that's not parallel There is a fundamental violation of categories represented

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The desire for a man For a woman is a natural desire, but it can become excessive

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But it's still a natural desire children animals and the same sex

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Involves a corruption of the categories of the natural desire

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It is disordered and therefore When you talk with someone who is same -sex attracted it seems to me that there is a massive huge category distinction between counseling them by saying

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Well By saying what the Pope said that guy a couple weeks ago. God made you like that.

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Okay, that's way out there we can throw the Pope and his sexual ethics out the window, but There is a difference between saying your same -sex attraction

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Needs to be controlled but you can identify yourself by it and Say that that is how

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God has made you as long as you don't act upon And saying to someone it's a disordered desire and the desire itself is

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Displeasing before God now, please don't tell me as I've been seeing a lot in social media

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Please don't tell me that You can limit

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The area of sin solely to that of activity and not of desire Because covetousness thou shalt not covet

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Covetousness is an attitude. It's solely in the heart It's solely in the heart greed is solely in the heart

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So God does address that and identify as sin Attitudes in the heart.

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How is it any different to say? I mean there is a sense of greediness in a person who wants to commit adultery to go beyond what

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God has provided in his wife or his husband But that's not a twisted desire in the way that homosexuality is or bestiality would be or pedophilia would be

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Or any of these things that involve Tevil the fundamental confusion of the categories of creation itself now

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I don't I've seen Arguments from both sides on this conference and I've seen

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I've seen some of the workshops just make me go. Whoa. Whoa, wait, wait, wait, I seriously

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Reject the idea of a Christian finding their identity in a disordered sinful desire for same -sex encounter along these lines

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I listened to I Listened to a about a two -year -old interview that Eric Metaxas did with a fellow by the name of Dr.

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Nate Collins Dr. Collins is a graduate of Southern Seminary and As far as I've seen indication

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He's still At least teaching for them in online classes for Southern Seminary He is a married gay man by his own description in a mixed

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Orientation marriage So that he's married to a woman.

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He has children by her. They are his children through natural sexual intercourse but He said right in the interview

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I Cannot imagine Having the feelings for any other woman than for my wife

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But I can't imagine having them for men So he is a he calls himself a gay man

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And he defines it in the context of beauty

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That in which he finds beauty now, of course, we're talking about sexuality here and it would be nice if You can create all these divisions and distinctions

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But we all know Those divisions and distinctions become very very blurred in human experience and in human fallenness but What has to be as far as I can see what has to be said?

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To have any kind of meaningful understanding of a biblical homology biblical doctrine of sin is that the desire for any of that kind of Behavior orientation that fundamentally redefines the categories of what

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God says Through creation we are to experience is sinful and Should never be for a

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Christian that by which we identify ourselves and It just seems that so much of the titling at the revoice conference just is not based upon that and and in looking at some of Nate Collins stuff, you know is is

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Homosexual desire sinful in a short in short. No In short no, but then he goes on to say but you can't act on it.

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Well, I have a real problem with that and I think the reason that it's

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I think there's a lot of reasons why this is growing and Becoming a thing with more and more people

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But I think what's causing a lot of confusion a lot of people's parts is we're seeing this within Context that we just never we just never dreamed it would be there

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But we were naive Because the reason that we were rejecting this kind of thinking is because we'd never encountered it

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We'd never heard anyone presenting it and now that it's found allies within our own circle, we're having to think these things through and We're way behind on the curve and besides the societal flow the tidal wave of The society making us basically completely rethink our

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Entire worldview so as to be acceptable to them or lose our jobs like the guy at CrossFit Is really is really part of the issues

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So there is no question that For the believer in the audience right now that maybe has been following this program for a long time

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We are going to have to spend much more of our time in the future

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Reading thinking and teaching Our children and our grandchildren because the world

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Gets all day long to do it and we get very little time to do it

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And that means we have to give up a lot of the things that we call our freedoms to do these things or just Watch our children and grandchildren

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Sucked into the dark vortex of a dead Christianity that no longer has the very core of what is definitional about the faith.

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That's what's going on and I'm not the only one sounding the alarm but Certainly I was one of the first ones not first in the sense of a

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Francis Schaeffer But certainly in the in the current battle. I mean the Barry Lynn debate.

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I think was 2001 and And Had a debate with a homosexual in Salt Lake City on gay marriage shortly after that I think it was like 2003 or 2004 because I remember the videos.

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I'm still it's very very large So it was it was prior to 2005 Yeah, all the debates are on YouTube the sound in the

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Lynn one is horrible, but that was just part of what happened So, so there you go

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Gay Christianity there is ain't such thing That that is a misnomer.

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It's misleading. It shows I think a an inappropriate foundation and I don't think it can go anywhere

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Other than down or into unbelief one of the two So With that Let's let's press forward we have looked at one text of Scripture I would like to look briefly at another text of Scripture and I want to revisit a topic from yesterday there is a

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I'll scroll back here To this gentleman that I mentioned to you guy named

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Joseph the Berean J Kimoni I 2017

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Oh, he's from Nairobi, well, okay and Joseph the

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Berean Writes Just half an hour ago

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Who made you the yardstick when it comes to Christian apologetics? Let David would Sam vocab and the entire crew of islamicized me series do their thing your methodology doesn't work useful idiot

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And then a little bit later on Get out of the way and let Muslims be evangelized stick to your polemics to Roman Catholicism and Mormonism learn your area of gifting

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And then mentions a Shows a guy Right in Acts 17.

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I'm a former Muslim who turned to Christ nine years ago, and I approve of your methods Keep up the good work Well Joseph the

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Berean if you're actually a Berean which clearly you are not There's only one question

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Joseph the Berean What do the scriptures say? Do they address?

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How we are to speak to unbelievers do they address how we ourselves to speak what our standards are to be what our morals are?

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to be Joseph the Berean and the fact is the scriptures do in The past 24 hours as I've heard a lot of argument about this what

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I haven't heard is Anybody who bothered to take up the Bible and provide counter?

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Argumentation for what I said from the Bible no counter exegesis. No counter argument

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It's all well. It's worked here. What about that guy over there? That's not being

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Berean Joseph and everybody else I Have been stunned and deeply disappointed and How many people claim to believe the

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Bible, but when it comes to actually taking the time to read it? Don't even touch it there is not the slightest room for debate as to what the scriptures teach us as to what our

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Behavior is to be marked as and it's not a Western thing versus a

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Eastern thing or Westernized versus non -westernized or anything else.

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I am stunned at the pragmatism of People involved in apologetics.

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Well, it works. Really it works. I Haven't seen a shred of gospel in the islamicized me series.

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There is none. It's all a mockumentary there's no gospel there and When challenged on that the response has been hey if we can get him out of Islam, that's all that matters

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Doesn't matter if we get him into Christianity. We can work on that later. Just got to get him out of Islam That's helpful.

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I remember the Apostles doing that a lot No, they never did that you have no apostolic examples of Engaging in this kind of behavior ever anywhere

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Nowhere well, they use sarcasm. That's not what you're doing That's not what you're doing

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Don't pretend that it is That's not what's in this series. I got a couple screenshots.

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I'm still debating myself. These are so vile They are so disgusting That I don't even know if I should even describe them let alone show them it's that bad

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And if you haven't watched them if you think I'm exaggerating well, I guess you're just gonna have to take the time to watch them yourself and Then don't come back to me and say you should have warned me because I've warned you

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I've warned you Let's go back and this is this is where I it just it just stuns me.

45:28

Why why are why are you folks even involved? Mr. Berean man in Doing evangelism to Muslims when it doesn't seem like your first default source is called the

45:40

Bible Scripture What's the power of God into salvation?

45:48

It's not your pragmatism. It's not your methods. It's not your trickery.

45:53

It's not your sarcasm It's not your mockery. You want to you want to talk about getting in the way?

46:01

Every time we use something other than what God has given us We are wasting everyone's time and playing right into the hand of the enemy

46:09

Right into the hand of the enemy now I Pointed out and no one bothered to even mention it

46:21

No one even mentioned it That first Peter 3 15 which is considered to be the classical text on apologetics

46:32

Gives us specific Commandment in regards to how

46:39

We are to respond to those who ask us a reason for the hope that's within us now if you go back to About the 2012 wretched conference somewhere around back then it was at a

46:52

Mennonite Church back in Ohio someplace. I Gave a lengthy sermon on the background of first Peter 3 which takes us back into Isaiah 8

47:01

Actually, it's really 6 through 11 There's this incredible section in Isaiah where you've got the

47:06

Emmanuel passages Son will be given to us a child born to a so -and -so worth all these passages about about Christ Prophetically in this material.

47:16

It's really deep. It's really beautiful and I gave a sermon on that particular subject which gives us the background for what we have in first Peter 3 and It's specifically and you can sort of see this

47:31

Here in if we see it on the screen here for a moment if we could bring this up You'll notice that New American Standard over here says and Do not fear their intimidation and do not be troubled now notice.

47:46

That's all in caps Which is the NASB's way of saying this is citation from the

47:52

Greek Septuagint and here you have over in in the Greek The Greek is likewise in italics for that section, but what's weird is once you get into into 15

48:06

They don't put Lord in caps and they don't put sanctify in caps, but in the

48:14

Nessie Olin text it is in Italics because it is a continuation of the citation.

48:22

Why is that important? Because what's being said is but Korean here is in the

48:31

Greek Septuagint is Replacing the Hebrew Yahweh Jehovah so you have

48:41

Korean and then you've got ton Christ on they're both in the accusative as The direct object of hagiocitate to treat as holy to sanctify so treat the

48:55

Messiah as Yahweh in a worshipful sanctifying

49:03

Manner of holiness. I mean that we just we struggle to You know, the verb is not just sanctify, but but it's to to treat as holy

49:15

So treat as holy The Christ as Yahweh in your hearts

49:22

Always being ready cross a polygon to give a defense to everyone asking you

49:32

A reason for the hope that is within you so the point is that If you have that central ordering principle of the recognition of who

49:45

Jesus is the lordship of Jesus Christ Which in here very plainly is connected to his deity if on a daily basis

49:54

You rise in the morning and say I am a servant of the Incarnate One The Creator who made all the universe entered into his own creation in the person of Jesus Christ left behind that empty grave

50:10

That's going to order your priorities in such a way that you are going to respond to the difficulties and trials of life in such a fashion that people are going to ask you a

50:22

Reason, where'd you get that? Hope we don't have that. Hope Where'd you get that hope and when you're asked that question

50:34

We are then and it's interesting that the Greek I don't know why the

50:40

NASB does it this way but Notice it puts yet with jealous and reverence in verse 15, but the

50:46

Greek has it in verse 16 The answer that you're to give is

50:53

Allah metta Proud a toss Kai fabu Proud a toss

51:01

Kai fabu So proud a toss is gentleness. It's it's gentleness, and then some say, you know fabas is fear

51:15

But in its semantic domain you have reverence That kind of attitude so Peter recognizes that when we are asked to give a reason our flesh can get in the way and So there needs to be a reminder that when we are engaged as representatives of the

51:42

King That we do so as redeemed persons and therefore given the danger of sin and hence becoming an impediment

51:55

Then with gentleness and reverence Engage in those conversations that those are you could ask well reverence toward Well, you're not gonna do reverence toward false teaching

52:12

But you can have reverence and respect toward those who have been entrapped in false teaching

52:20

It might be reverence toward God the gentleness doesn't make any sense In in thinking that's toward God you don't have gentleness toward God So that's why most

52:35

Noting that it's metta Proud a toss Kai fabu. It's just one phrase. It's hard to necessarily divide them up and say well

52:41

It's gentleness toward the person talking to reverence toward God reverence toward the material might be but in in all likelihood exegetically they're going together with the same object and so there is to be an attitude of reverence in our conversations why and verse 16 in NASB, but continues on the same

53:11

Section degree Having a good conscience or keeping

53:19

Possessing a good Conscience, please mark that good conscience when you walk away from a conversation

53:31

If there has been anger if there has been vitriol It shouldn't have come from you

53:38

It's so wonderful to be able to walk away from a conversation with a good conscience, and if your only goal is

53:51

Pragmatic shock and awe I'm not sure you can have a good conscience If you will use any means at your disposal

53:59

I'm not sure you have a good conscience. I want to walk away from every debate Knowing that I did everything in my power

54:06

To honor God honor his truth, but I never Violated the very standards of truth that he has provided to me that he says this is the arena in which you are to function you can't go outside of it and Every time

54:20

I do you don't have a good conscience in order that so that in the thing in which you are

54:36

Slandered spoken against spoken evil against the ones reviling your good conduct in Christ Will be put to shame

54:50

They'll be put to shame. So Here's here's my question if we apply this to these videos if we apply this these videos

55:09

What happened I could I could not

55:15

With good conscience Direct any Muslim to these videos. I would

55:22

I would yeah, I couldn't direct Christians these videos I've decided even though I have the screen caps.

55:31

I can't show them Even if I gave you the warning and said send the children out and everything else

55:37

I I can't even show you the screen captures that I have That I just grabbed before the program it it is lewd it is so far beneath any kind of Christian standard of thought

55:57

Presentation behavior it is mockery taken to the it's not and it's not just the content of the mockery it it is the utterly inappropriate

56:08

You might say well, but Mohammed did it I'll look at another text in a moment to address that But I I can't even show them to you

56:16

So, but I don't know how you can present this say I've got a good conscience. I've got a good conscience

56:23

You know the things that I did the things I portrayed myself as doing I Just I just pointed to the one on breastfeeding and just watch at the end

56:36

Watch what vocab and and David do and that that woman. Oh my gosh

56:46

I Don't have words. It's just abuse. It's just I don't know who came up with it, but it is so far beyond the bounds that it's

56:57

You know if they won't hear it fine But I did ask a question and you know what? Let me let me look here

57:03

Haven't got an answer. You've been watching I asked vocab on the on on Twitter today Let me see if I'll read you what

57:11

I what I wrote Brother did the elders of any sound recognized church

57:19

Review or have input on the content of the islamicized me video series are the participants in that?

57:27

Series members in good standing in such churches. Is that is that a fair?

57:36

Can someone actually take take offense? To That question

57:44

I Cannot imagine the elders plural of any sound church

57:54

Reviewing These materials and going. Oh, yeah. Hey, well, we'll show this in the

58:00

Sunday morning service. No, they won't Or the Sunday night service the

58:05

Wednesday No, they won't Yeah, we're behind a hundred percent. Mmm, I don't think so.

58:13

I don't think so in Ephesians chapter 5 We have these words beginning of verse 3

58:24

But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you as is proper among the hagiois the

58:35

Saints and there must be no filthiness and And silly talk or course jesting which are not fitting but rather You cut a stea the giving of thanks now this term right here course jesting low

58:58

Anita Define this as course jesting involving vulgar expressions or indecent content vulgar speech

59:10

Indecent talk and then Ephesians 5 for the reference these things are not fitting

59:22

They have no place amongst the Saints. You might say what this isn't it about the same This is only meant these videos aren't meant for Christians.

59:31

They're meant to shock Muslims into reading their own sources

59:37

Okay I do think there is great value

59:45

In getting Muslims to read their own sources, here's the problem when you do it in this fashion

59:54

You might say oh, I we've seen people leave Islam into what? Into what?

01:00:01

Well, first of all, there's no gospel here. I think you'd admit that you're not these are not evangelism videos These are thoroughly only

01:00:10

Anti -muslim videos. There's no redeeming value to them unless you think that getting someone to leave

01:00:16

Islam is Redeeming in and of itself I think that when you get somebody to leave a religion the reason to leave that religion is to embrace the truth

01:00:26

You might be saying well, it's better to have them as a burned -out religious person then we can reach them with the gospel It's not been my experience

01:00:32

My experience vast majority of people who leave a religion because they have

01:00:38

Concluded that it's false end up being irreligious the rest of their life Over a million people, you know,

01:00:44

Dave was talking about 30 people have left Islam a million people Left the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society after the 1975 failed failed prophecy a million 99 .999

01:00:58

% of them never found the truth never They became the religiously abused

01:01:05

There are people pouring out of Mormonism today. They're finding out all sorts of stuff about Mormonism And not ending up in true churches there are many wonderful people like Sandra Tanner and Bill up in Salt Lake and Yeah, Bill McKibben That are doing everything they can to direct them

01:01:32

Away from agnosticism and just a complete rejection of Christ and Scripture and things like that because the perversion of Mormonism That's wonderful.

01:01:43

But The reality is the vast majority of people leaving Mormonism aren't leaving it because they've gotten a

01:01:48

Christian witness they've just discovered that it's not what they were told and They'll end up the religiously abused but more than that aside from the the obvious error of pragmatism

01:02:01

Where do you have any Biblical war where the Apostles do this and don't give me well, they were sarcastic.

01:02:10

I mean look at Isaiah He mocks he mocks idolatry. He did in the context of presenting the truth

01:02:15

He didn't do it by describing

01:02:22

Kind of stuff that you're doing in these videos It's just it's it's it's below junior high school level.

01:02:32

That's not what you have Anywhere in Scripture, it's just not there.

01:02:40

You have no apostolic Command to engage in this kind of activity let alone one from From the elders of your churches.

01:02:52

It's interesting this same chapter you go on down Do not verse 11 participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness but instead even in New very

01:03:08

Sarah has exposed. That's not that's not a good translation of length a day a length a day means to reprove reprove convict refute

01:03:18

And so you are to refute The false teachings

01:03:26

I just changed the space down that sorry about that. Um, I guess I can sort of go like That and make it look good without having to make you doing any work.

01:03:35

Anyway There is to be Exposure But that exposure should be done in the context of truth fairness respect and Always with the eye

01:03:54

To Consistently presenting the gospel of Jesus Christ now, you know what?

01:03:59

You know what one of the criticisms I've gotten over the past 24 hours You think you're the only one knows how to do this because you say you're the only way to do this

01:04:06

So when I sit here and say that we should always have as our central focus the presentations of gospel

01:04:12

That's something about me being arrogant What are you people thinking?

01:04:21

Come on That is a basic truth If I get run over by a truck this weekend riding my bike, it's not gonna change that truth

01:04:32

Has nothing to do with me I'm a nobody this is what the Bible says show me

01:04:38

Someplace else come to me with an open Bible and tell me that what

01:04:44

I'm saying is not true but I'm gonna hold you the same standard because see the

01:04:51

Exegetical standard that I'm using it Look in these texts is the same standard That those guys on that video and I have used in the same studio to demonstrate the deity of Christ I'm being the consistent one here.

01:05:09

You cannot use the same Exegetical method by which we defend the central aspects of the

01:05:16

Christian faith and then come up with a defense For the kind of representations

01:05:24

That have been central in this presentation This is all this this is just on the basic stuff that's way over the line

01:05:35

Let alone just simply recognizing That we have to be consistent in our apologetic toward others

01:05:46

Or they have every reason to turn it around on us That doesn't accomplish anything now.

01:05:57

I was watching one of the episodes and And you know

01:06:04

I'll say something. How about I say something positive tough to find something, but I'll say something positive Sam Shamoon Roleplays any mom in a mosque teaching these three guys absolutely frightening.

01:06:22

I Mean it is spot -on He could walk into a mosque he could walk into a mosque if they didn't know who he was

01:06:32

Take the place of the guest speaker or something and he'd get away with it has all of the phraseology down everything everything

01:06:42

It's amazing And I just sit back and go man what that could have been used That could have been used in a inappropriate way in such a devastatingly powerful way if there just been a trust

01:06:56

In what the church has been given rather than the pragmatism what you win them with is what you win them to If you can mock them out of Islam somebody else can then mock them out of Christianity if they happen to stumble into it.

01:07:08

I really think this is a matter. This is a theological matter If you believe that the gospel is the power of God in the salvation

01:07:15

Then you're not gonna go looking for doing this kind of thing. You're gonna trust what

01:07:22

God has given us His word the gospel his spirit. It's still enough.

01:07:29

Oh, but there's just so many people going to hell a day Yeah, maybe we're under the judgment of God in the world right now

01:07:36

God has never said that Christianity is going to be the majority report in every generation

01:07:43

There have been dark times. We are simply called to remain faithful to what God has given us not to run around find something new

01:07:52

This is about why you do what you do and the content of the gospel that you are presenting so If y 'all are gonna fire back

01:08:07

I challenge you Do it on the basis of the Bible Not your pragmatism

01:08:16

Not your well, it worked over here and I demand every one of you because I've worked with every one of you but one

01:08:26

The exact same standard the original languages of the Bible Don't you say a word to me until you're ready to go there.

01:08:35

Don't say a word to me unless you're ready to go there I thought we were on the same page on that We need to be

01:08:48

We need to be going to I say what's in there water

01:09:00

It's dry in Phoenix right now Won't be for long, but it will be

01:09:06

Okay Wow, look at that ten minutes after three All right one more subject and it's

01:09:14

I'm at least thankful that it is not at all controversial I mean we haven't

01:09:20

I am so glad that we have avoided Controversy so far on the dividing line today.

01:09:26

This has been very very easy light program Didn't you say

01:09:35

I was supposed to take this week off? You know, you should learn to listen to me.

01:09:41

No, I told you, you know, you need to just relax You know Sid drink a little wine eat some cheese

01:09:49

Be cool Take it easy, but no I don't have time to take it easy

01:09:56

I've got to get packed up. I've got to get over to Southern, California. I've there's over a hundred people in this class over a hundred people in this guy

01:10:07

Thankfully, I don't have to grade anything but but it's over hundred people as well looking forward to being at with the folks at masters next week and then

01:10:19

Immediately the next day off to Dallas and Give me with Emilio and Trish There in Dallas on on Father's Day And the morning he wants me to be talking about textual variants in the

01:10:34

New Testament, which I love to do It's just sort of it's like he's weird. But yeah, we'll be doing that and that'll be fun.

01:10:41

Anyway last subject Um there's some guy and Again, I've I've blocked a lot of these people and which is sort of dangerous because then you can't see what they're saying

01:10:56

You only see what other people are saying and it's it's a it's one of the problems with with Twitter but there's this

01:11:03

There's just a group of people out there. It doesn't matter what I say They're gonna twist it.

01:11:08

They're only gonna hear one part of it. They're gonna you know do their thing and I happen to stumble on to one of it because I couldn't see it in my normal feed because they're all blocked

01:11:19

But I followed what somebody else said cuz I was like what? What and then you can go and you can find what what other people responding to and there's all this nastiness out there there was

01:11:33

There was pushback about my comments about what is happening in the SPC as well

01:11:40

And There's pushback in regards to the Paige Patterson situation Where evidently the way that people heard me was saying that it had nothing to do with what

01:11:52

Patterson Actually did that it was just the Southern Baptist deep state. I didn't say that in fact,

01:11:59

I specifically said I know things that Paige Patterson did that were worse than at least the initial things

01:12:07

That were publicly Talked about I mean, you know, he went after him for Objectifying a 16 year old girl.

01:12:17

Did you watch the clip? He's telling the story about what two other kids said to their mom or something

01:12:23

I mean, it's just it was a stretch. It was a massive stretch, but All I was addressing is the fact that there is massive politics going on in the

01:12:33

SPC Massive behind -the -scenes power struggles with lots of money involved Lots of money because you're controlling denominational

01:12:43

Structures and it is been documented that people who work for those

01:12:48

Denominational entities are being told you shall not in the public sphere comment on these things pretty much only on one side

01:12:56

That's a fact. No one bothered to deal with the facts and these these there's this John Argyle guy

01:13:01

I don't think it's his name or whatever, but they don't care about the facts. That's irrelevant to them They're just slander mongers.

01:13:08

They're just trying to twist things and do their thing and cause problems fine the the real allegation that got

01:13:21

Patterson out and got it got him to have to abandon his

01:13:27

His golden parachute Because when he was first retired And wasn't much of anything

01:13:36

It was like, you know president emeritus you get to live on campus the rest of your life, you know, sweet deal

01:13:42

You know, everybody was looking at going man. I'd like to get fired like that Be very nice But what was

01:13:55

Devastating Was the accusation and I don't know that this is even fully Out there yet, but it's you know, it's it's in court right now

01:14:04

But the big thing was the Pressler issue Because what judge

01:14:10

Pressler has been accused of is just absolutely predatory and it's not predatory toward women primarily if you know what

01:14:16

I mean And so if you've got a guy who's picking up guys young guys on campus and that gets covered over What else is gonna happen

01:14:30

I Mean that's more than a sufficient basis for Whatever actions are taking place.

01:14:37

Now. The problem is hasn't been proven yet. And these days man You know mere accusation is more than enough to end everything

01:14:51

You know in the current climate the no one seems to care about justice or anything like that anymore, it's just Once you're accused that's it.

01:15:00

You're gone. You're out of there that Would have been more than enough

01:15:07

For the action that was taken I never said that I Was supporting, you know some type of reinstatement of Paige Patterson or anything like that?

01:15:18

No, of course not But you have to have some

01:15:23

Wisdom here folks. There is some strange stuff going on in the

01:15:29

Southern Baps convention You look at how fast and radical the shift in fundamental worldview issues,

01:15:42

I mean most of this stuff happened the stuff that Patterson was accused of in regards was while he was still president of Southeastern not

01:15:49

Southwestern and Southeastern you look at where they are today and You can barely see them way off to the left out there someplace

01:16:03

You know, you know the doing the James Cone Did the screen just flicker or something?

01:16:09

That was weird the the James Cone stuff and and just doing social justice warrior

01:16:17

CRT stuff right right down the line How is that how has that happened in a relatively short period of time the entire conservative resurgence you know you had to Back in the 90s.

01:16:34

You had to sign a statement about inerrancy teaching a Southern Baptist school

01:16:40

That didn't take long for people to find ways around that you could sign it. You've just redefined what inerrancy is

01:16:49

But that whole resurgence a lot of people thought wow, you know, we've got the 2000 Baptist faith and message

01:16:55

We've got some good stuff in there and da -da -da -da -da -da -da and the whole time These folks were working slowly, but diligently getting key positions and It's all of a sudden like a switch was flipped this year and I don't know what's gonna happen next week in in the convention.

01:17:19

It's it's gonna be confusing. It's gonna be strange But To push back at me and Say well, you're you're ignoring the real reasons and saying

01:17:32

I was going off into weird You just I'm sorry. You folks have no idea what you're talking about. Why should

01:17:37

I believe you? I don't even think these people are Southern Baptists I mean, I'm not a Southern Baptist either by a lot of people who are and was

01:17:45

And I was so you put all together I've had to deal with that political structure

01:17:52

I mean I taught at a Southern Baptist Institution for years as a Reformed Baptist as other Reformed Baptists do so Yes, yeah, and Paige Patterson is why

01:18:03

I don't do that anymore. Yeah That's and I and I was open about that. It was one of the first things I said yesterday was

01:18:10

I'm not a unbiased observer here Paige Patterson does not like me

01:18:17

But the main reason doesn't like me is because my theology I'm all those dreaded

01:18:22

Calvinists I mean there were there were years at Southwestern Where you had to read the

01:18:28

Potter's Freedom in a brown paper cover quite literally. I'm not making that up I I can't tell you how many people from Southwestern I've talked to that literally would would gather in dorm rooms and put pillows at the door and And and go to the far corner and whisper about Reformed theology and Literally carried the

01:18:50

Potter's Freedom in a brown paper cover so I'm not a I'm not a

01:18:57

Unbiased person here. I was open about that from the start, but I'm also not blind or Overly naive and in this situation.

01:19:06

I'm just simply telling you there's a whole lot more to it than what meets the eye This flood of stuff

01:19:14

It's been known The the Pressler thing. That's probably the one thing. I think that's probably what emboldened people to say hey

01:19:21

We can take out one of the key people standing against our movement

01:19:27

And you keep an eye on what ends up happening at Southwestern. That's gonna be fascinating you see who ends up in leadership there and If it goes the same direction as Southeastern Hmm Don't tell me

01:19:43

I didn't tell you so Because I told you so I told you so so I didn't see much to be honest with you

01:19:55

As far as the comments that I made on the sudden influx of compliment of Egalitarianism well, okay, they're not calling themselves egalitarian, but they are

01:20:07

They they you know the left knows how to do these things you don't identify yourself as to what you really are until you have the power to identify yourself as what you really and That's happening in the politics.

01:20:22

That's very very clear in what's what's going on and what we're seeing and Just today a few people

01:20:36

Reposted a short article that my daughter posted on the subject of the the gospel coalition's women of color at TGC w18

01:20:53

And some discussion of that you might want to look up You know

01:20:58

I told I told people in Belfast I said, you know, it's pretty cool Getting old because then you can start learning from your kids if if you invested and I certainly tried to if you invested in them when they were younger

01:21:16

Lo and behold all of a sudden they might be able to start teaching you stuff that you'll find useful because you gave them a good foundation later on in life

01:21:25

That's a definitely a blessing from the Lord. So when it comes to intersectionality and all this other stuff that Those of us on the far side of the half -century mark are sitting there going what where did this all come from?

01:21:39

Well on earth it's it's nice to have someone you can contact and go, okay Another new term what in the world is this about and then they explain you go.

01:21:49

Oh Really? This is a thing. That's that's another thing. This is a thing That's not how we spoke when

01:21:56

I was when I was younger. So yeah, there you go So you might want to look up summers a thing if you don't follow her on Facebook or Twitter it's summer

01:22:06

Jaeger J a e G er, she's certainly getting her share of We're all getting our shares of nastiness these days.

01:22:16

It's just seems to be you know when you when you fire up the computer get ready for the the

01:22:23

Get ready for the nastiness because that's it's gonna be there. So I I do

01:22:30

Want to try to figure out some way next week. I I I lecture in the evenings

01:22:40

You'd be busy during the days but We might try to find out some way to comment and I I Like to have a guest on if I can it would all be done by Skype which thinks we can figure it out

01:22:56

Maybe it will work. Maybe it won't We'll try we'll see If if we can make it work because I I don't want

01:23:05

I mean I won't I won't be back Until a week from Thursday So two weeks from today,

01:23:15

I won't be back in in in Because I'm in Dallas so Don't what there's just gonna be so much stuff going on that I you know

01:23:28

This is my primary way. I get to respond and you know what? It may take an hour and a half, but It's a lot less time than typing

01:23:37

And it has a much larger audience and it lasts longer at least until YouTube gets rid of us, which will eventually

01:23:44

Eventually happen. So there's a there's a program for today as I said

01:23:52

Rich has some folks lined up for next week But I I want to try to sneak in there if I can we'll we'll see if my

01:24:01

Even if my hotel Wi -Fi, which is always fun Doesn't work real.

01:24:07

Well, I probably could pop in early to class and use Wi -Fi there to to get in so we'll see if we can do so because that something tells me

01:24:19

That there will be some responses to what we said today on the program What do you think I think you think it's possibility maybe

01:24:32

Yeah Has rise and you can use this phone as a hotspot. I I know that I'm well aware of that but even

01:24:39

LTE I don't know is necessarily the meme is going to have that finger pointing at the camera with it

01:24:45

I everything I do sitting in this chair gets memed Did you see the the meme where I became?

01:24:52

Thanos Thanos. Oh, you never saw the movie. Did you you didn't see eternity wars?

01:25:00

It was eternally long movie, but So you are you are completely out of the loop, dude.

01:25:07

I mean that was like a culture defining moment well Two hours and 40 minutes were the moments

01:25:15

It's very very long But yeah, thomas is this big huge massive

01:25:21

Dude and they put my actually did a good job putting my head on thomas's body at one point He's about to kill somebody and he says

01:25:29

I hope they remember This he was actually being nice before he killed somebody So somebody put me on that and said this is what every person

01:25:38

I debate here's right before the debate. I hope they remember Because whoever did that that was a good that was that was a good

01:25:45

I kept that one if I if I keep the meme if I if I store the meme someplace That means I I went like that.

01:25:51

That's a good Though I'm sure somebody that guy that you played that I didn't download. What was that guy?

01:25:58

theology student or something Yeah, I'm sure that he probably would say something about I mean he was actually complaining that I gave a report on Three weeks away in ministry in other places.

01:26:10

Yeah, apparently you were bragging You were bragging bragging. Oh, yeah Myself so Yeah, you know there seems to be a number of people that don't like you very much.

01:26:20

I don't know It's not actually all that new but it does The reasons get odder and odder over the years.

01:26:29

So yeah, I escaped Ryan a channel lawyer. Yeah, cuz he Well, you know he was

01:26:35

Posting the the video from a year and a half ago is just before Christmas 2016

01:26:41

When he smuggled in the left -behind book when he he posted a graphic of that.

01:26:49

Oh He did. Yeah. Well, he he posted a link to it earlier and I was playing a graphic and I sent him in the prosper

01:26:55

Oh, there you go. Okay. Yeah So I only did it for one minute this time, but I the next the next iteration is five minutes

01:27:03

And I've got him all the way up to 20 So well, we'll see It might be worth worth it so Anyways, we have now left the important stuff and are talking about so did y 'all see the splash of color though?

01:27:17

I I didn't I didn't mention see a splash of color back there. I Got that beautiful woven

01:27:25

African oh, well, yeah, I'm not sure if you this one's a lot. This one's at a lower Yeah, you see you see it better on that one because it's a high it's higher up, but it's a

01:27:33

I got got it in Johannesburg and It's it's a beautiful Woven African thing, but I'm sure that that means cultural appropriation

01:27:44

Yeah. Yeah cultural appropriation, by the way I Bought two beautiful African shirts in Johannesburg.

01:27:52

I mean they are stunning. They are really nice and I have to wear one one day.

01:27:58

But the first thing I thought of when I walked out of the shop was cultural appropriation I Asked people down there.

01:28:04

I said so and they're all like what? What why would someone be offended by you wearing an

01:28:12

African shirt? What what it's it's nice It the insanity is pretty much here and in Europe and in Europe but Anyways, Oh Ryan's back.

01:28:25

Hi. Hi Ryan. I'm glad that you're back okay, so Those of you that don't go in channel don't know what's going on there.

01:28:37

But anyways That's that's like a episode of the honeymooners to the moon to the moon.

01:28:43

Well, you've seen that the the cartoon where they find Yeah, it's

01:28:50

One of these days right one of these days what was her name Alice Alice what crammed it crammed it

01:28:57

Alice cramps Yes, Alice crammed it. Yeah, that was good All right, we're done we were in fact we were done five minutes ago

01:29:03

I think most people will recognize that but hey, that's okay. We filled up the time So hopefully at least once next week me and then you could end up being three programs hence next week