The "Gay Christian" Movement: A Response Part 2

Introduce everybody yesterday. So my name is Paul in case you you don't know. Yes, so let's get started let's pray. The father we do pray for James this evening Lord God that you give him wisdom. Father we are Amazed at the the speed that this message has Infiltrated our society and so we pray that we would have the loving spirit To confront those in this movement with the truth.

And bless us. Now we ask in Jesus name Amen.

Opening Remarks on the Gay Christian Movement

Dr. James white. I want I want everybody to know that.

I'm allegedly able to see my text in front of me more clearly because I was unaware that Brother Paul has a thing for clean screens and so I put this thing up here and I went toward the back and I turn around he's up here rubbing away on it and I've just sort of gotten used to it.

There's a reason it's called a touchscreen and so, you know, you just look past that kind of stuff, but It is it is good to be with you this evening last evening We began looking at the subject of what is calling itself the gay Christian movement.

I would like to point out I rarely use that terminology myself. I don't think that the term gay is an appropriate term. It is a term that some Homosexuals demand that we use or we are offending them but it is not descriptive and It reminds me of certain Christmas carols.

That's No longer have the same meaning they once did Because a word has been completely altered as to its meaning, but I don't think that's a major issue outside of the fact that it does illustrate once again the fact that Many people within this movement seem to feel they have the right to demand that the rest of the world Accommodate their particular perspective.

We began looking at this movement and in essence what it is is a minority movement. The minority of people who self-identify as homosexuals would identify as Christians and Then within that group There is not a unanimous perspective.

I mean certainly I know of individuals who Experience what we mentioned last evening that being same-sex attraction and And They recognize however that it is not an appropriate set of desires that it is not Godly it is not something that That God has given freedom to act upon and to allow these desires to define who they are and.

So.

You do have however a militant group of people that would be seen in the gay Christian network in Matthew Vine's Reformation Project and They are receiving support from non-homosexual liberal scholars.

Who utilize this particular perspective for various reasons? As a means of promoting a particular view of the Bible a particular view of Christianity, you know that in our day the term progressive has become very popular.

Of course any movement involves progression. Lemmings progress off of a cliff. And so just utilizing that kind of terminology that does not mean that you're progressing forward in any way but together this small minority of a small minority movement is Making great headway because the fact that our society Wants to believe That the scriptures really are not clear enough To identify any activity as sinful our society wants reasons to disbelieve and I will Finish this evening by making one incredibly important point that I want you.

I'll make it now. I want you to hear it and then I will Explicate it later on. This is a gospel issue. This is a gospel issue a Lot of people would say it's not no no, no this this should not divide this should this is this is not a gospel issue.

This is a ethics and morality issue. It's an interpretational issue. It's just six verses anyways, and I hope that After our talk last evening, you know why that's not an appropriate perspective to take.

But I say to you it is a gospel issue not only. Will we see this evening? The the primary argument being used against the understanding of Romans chapter 1. Which is where we'll be starting if you want to look at that text.

Not only is the primary argument.

That.

The prohibitions against homosexuality came from a time when people did not know.

About.

Monogamous lifelong committed homosexual relationships and Therefore since Paul didn't know about this kind of homosexual and This kind of homosexual relationship then he must have been talking about something else.

He must have been talking about what we see in gay pride marches. Well, it's interesting to me that people like Matthew Vines and Justin Lee and others I don't see them out. Calling those people in gay pride marches to repent of their Outrageous behavior.

It's interesting that that is the case. But be that as it may their whole argument is the scriptural writers simply didn't know what we know today. That is a fundamental denial the sufficiency of scripture.

And I do not believe that a person who holds that view will long be able to hold almost any orthodox Christian Perspective because what it requires us to believe is that the level of knowledge of the writer determines the application of what is written and Historic Christian belief has been that all scripture is theanoustos.

It is God breathed and while men are The ones through whom God brought the scriptures They spoke from God as they were being carried along by the Holy Spirit and So they could speak of truths that transcended their own limited knowledge.

The fundamental argument that is being made today is that's not how we should view scripture. And so it is a scriptural issue. But again, it is also a gospel issue. I believe That if we listen carefully to what is being said By the Matthew Vines and the Justin Lees of our world today By for example a book was just put out a few months ago a letter to my congregation I believe the name was Ken Thompson.

It's it's a Ken something. I don't have it in front of me. But here was a pastor if I recall correctly of a vineyard church in The north-central part of the United States Explaining to his congregation why he had come to a gay affirming position.

When you listen to the arguments that these people are putting forward and they're primarily Dependent upon a certain core of scholarly literature starting back with John Boswell and now the the most current big book that they are dependent upon is a Book on the Bible gender and sexuality by Dr. Brownson from 2013 when you when you listen to what they're actually saying and Follow it through.

If you were to believe in that kind of interpretation, we would no longer be able to define what sin is. If you can't define what sin is Then you can't explain why there's a need for a cross a savior the resurrection and the gospel itself.

Why does Jesus die upon a cross? If one of the most plain and clear violations of God's law isn't Then can't that same reasoning be used for anything else and Hence, we no longer have a basis for understanding what sin is in the first place.

We'll get to that before we finish this evening, but last evening we pointed out that it is wrong to say That there are only six verses in the Bible that are relevant. The entire Bible is relevant. Why?

Because everything that the Bible says about God's creative purpose about marriage about men and women is always Heterosexual even though there are diminishments. There are steps down from God's perfect plan in the form of polygamy That always brought pain and destruction to those that were involved with it.

It was always Heterosexual there is nothing Absolutely, positively nothing anywhere in Scripture that says anything positive about homosexual relationships. Now this is so devastating that there have been many especially within what's called the metropolitan church movement Who have attempted to find some of the most incredibly absurd Examples of homosexuality in the Bible.

I'll just mention two in passing and by the way, if you're taking notes Let me let me recommend to you a further reading right now before I forget. Surely the the most scholarly work and what remains the most scholarly work is Robert Gagnon's work on the subject of homosexuality.

G-A-G-N-O-M. In the past couple of years I co-authored a book called the same-sex controversy. Back in I believe it was 2001. It's amazing how much the book needs to be updated now. Not because the biblical arguments have changed at all.

But because of the vast volume of literature that has been produced and of course the huge changes in society that have taken place since that time period a few years ago.

I.

Have a dear friend and brother and if if Michael Brown and I do not demonstrate my ecumenical spirit I don't know who else possibly could because Michael and I end up debating each other more often than we end up debating others unfortunately.

But our debates are always brotherly. But Michael and I have a lot of different perspectives on things. But when we're talking about the same issues the central core of the Christian faith. We are Let's let's say a very effective duo in debating these subjects and I love Michael and I look forward to working with him more in the future, but He has written two books now on homosexuality.

And if you don't have them, you don't have the best books on the subject. A queer thing happened to America is a huge volume. Extensively researched, but it will help you greatly in understanding what's going on in our society.

And then he just came out with can you be gay and Christian? Which he did not have access to Matthew Vines book but it came out within about two or three weeks of when Matthew Vines book came out and Is very much along the lines of the same-sex controversy that Jeff Neal and I wrote.

So if you can avail yourself of those those works you will have a great deal of material to work with in responding to these issues going beyond the brief period of time that we have Here last evening in this evening to address these particular these particular subjects.

So I wanted to make sure to mention those. Because further study would be very good. Because all of us if we want to be able to interact with our society. We'll be interacting with the types of argumentation that is out there and believing scholars have responded to this material but obviously Have one mid -20s Non-graduate from college write a book on this subject and every media outlet in the world Wants to interview him.

Have someone who has extensive experience and biblical knowledge the subject write a book on the subject and they could care less. Which only demonstrates the nature of the mainstream media and the society in which we live.

So we saw that the entire Bible is heterosexual in its orientation and That it's not just a matter of six verses. That the Bible gives a positive presentation in regards to God's creative purpose in male and female and their relationships with one another.

Then we began looking at those six verses because they are Subject to revision on the part of these individuals who are writing these books. And as a result we looked at Sodom and Gomorrah. We looked at briefly not as long as I would like to have Leviticus 18, Leviticus 20 and the subject of the Holiness Code.

I would strongly recommend to you the further reading of that section of Leviticus so that you might Really have a full understanding and recognition of how central that section really is To any type of moral and ethical system when you read that section and it talks about Caring for the elderly and caring for the poor and all of these things you have to remember that that stuff is there and That those who mock and deride that section of Scripture always ignore the centrality of That kind of just simple human morality that is contained in in those texts, but obviously the greatest Focus and debate is Upon the New Testament texts that we will look at this evening and as I said the first will be Romans chapter 1.

Romans 1 and the Sufficiency of Scripture

Romans chapter 1 now as I said this may well be one of the most important of all New Testament texts I certainly find myself in so many contexts. Returning to Romans chapter 1 it is fundamental for our understanding of sin.

It is fundamental for our having a meaningful Anthropology. I would submit to you that there is far more wisdom to be gathered from a full reading of the first chapter of Romans than in the vast majority of Psychiatry and psychology that is available today.

In fact I would submit to you that one of the amazing examples of the inspiration of the text of Scripture is the fact that in these rather few Sentences the Apostle Paul could so accurately Identify the issues of mankind that would transcend Geographical boundaries, cultural boundaries, language boundaries, and time boundaries.

These words were written 2 ,000 years ago and Yet they continue to accurately reflect what we see in mankind in all of his various manifestations around this world. How does that happen? Well, we know why it happens In Romans chapter 1 beginning of verse 18.

Before Paul ever gets to the good news. He has to explain the bad news. One of the major problems we have in what's called evangelicalism today. Whatever that term means anymore, and I don't know it can be defined any longer, and it may not even be useful.

But one of the main problems that you see in conservative churches that still take the Bible at least somewhat seriously is a rush to get to the good news Without announcing the bad news. Jesus never did that.

The first words out of Jesus's mouth were not John 3 16 even if Jesus said John 3 16. We're not sure whether John's saying that or Jesus is saying that but be it as it may. Those weren't the first words out of Jesus's mouth.

If you look at the first recorded examples of his preaching it was repent and believe the kingdom of God is at hand and So when Paul decides he wants to lay out the entirety of the gospel and Explain this the church at Rome knowing that if the church at Rome has this letter That that teaching is going to be then be distributed throughout the known Roman world at the time He starts.

With the second half of the first chapter all the second chapter and the first half of the third chapter all is bad news it is about sin and If we're going to address what Romans 1 26 and following says about homosexuality.

Don't just jump into it. I mean okay if you're You're sitting with somebody on a bus, and you only have a few minutes all right. Fine. If you have to do that, but if you really want to address this issue in a meaningful fashion You especially every one of you Needs to know The flow of the thought in this text so that you can express it and answer questions about it.

Now I'm not saying it's not good to memorize those verses it'd be great if you memorize those verses, but We really need to understand What the entire text is saying because when we do then we can answer questions, and when we explain it to people.

It's not just sort of a rote memorization type thing. We're really actually explain explaining to people what the text is really all about so let's walk through it. I can't spend as much time on as I'd like I'm gonna have to fight the temptation to start preaching in a number of points but especially because we need to get some to some other texts, but Digging into verse 8 18 for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men Who suppress the truth and unrighteousness?

Now the wrath of God is being revealed. It is a present tense in the original language. It's not something. It's just going to happen in the future someday the wrath of God is Being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth and unrighteousness.

Now some people say well That's just some people no. All ungodliness. Paul's going to conclude at the end of this all have sinned and so these are universal statements. They're gonna be people will say well Romans 1 is just about a certain select group of people.

It's it's only about people who engage in idolatry. Yeah, that's everybody if you're not bowing the knee to God you're engaging in idolatry because you're giving to the creation that which belongs to God alone and notice the description of Men who suppress the truth and unrighteousness it is a present tense participle cata canton.

It refers to holding something down sort of like when you would have a If you have a pool or something like that. And you'd take one take a basketball or one of those beach balls you try to hold it underwater it takes energy to suppress the natural desire of that ball to come flying up out of the water and if you stop Expending energy for but a moment what's gonna happen?

It's gonna shoot right up out of the water well in the same way there is a suppression of the truth on the part of sinful men. Paul's whole points gonna be that God has made his existence and the truth about him.

So well known that as he's gonna say in just a couple of verses men are unapologetus. They are without an apologetic there without an excuse they cannot make a consistent argument in defense of their rejection of his truth.

That's why Romans 1 is also really important when it comes to apologetic methodology, and how we approach That particular issue as well verse 19. Why do they have to suppress this truth. Because that which is known about God not that which is knowable.

But that which is known about God is evident within them. For God made it evident to them. Now I think that's primarily in reference to the internal existence of the conscience. The fact that were made in the Imago Dei the image of God but it could also be understood as amongst them as in amongst the the societies of men where we find these these rather regular common laws that are seem to be the possession of almost all men except those who Seemingly are given over to their evil, but God has noticed God made it evident to them.

God has made revelation. We call this in systematic theology natural revelation. Because as we're about to see it is a part of the creation itself verse 20 for a sense the creation of the world. His invisible attributes his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen being understood through what has been made so that they are unapologetus without an apologetic without a defense and So there has been a revelation in the creation of what of everything in the gospel.

This is this is not the gospel in the stars stuff. This is not if you just look at the constellations, right? You'll figure out the Trinity and the doctrine of sanctification. Specifically it is his eternal power and divine nature that has been made known.

They have been clearly seen being understood through what has been made. With such clarity that the person that refuses to acknowledge the existence of the Creator God and In fact do what verse 21 says give thanks to him and honor him.

Has no consistent argument in defense of his behavior. Now you might say Atheists have all sorts of arguments in defense of their behavior, but they're not consistent Arguments. The whole point is that Anyone if they are going to argue against the existence of God is going to have to borrow From the Christian worldview to do it.

They're gonna have to borrow From the world they really exist in to be able to make their argumentation, and so they're without excuse. The revelation is that clear for even though they knew God It says they knew God.

They did not honor him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations and their foolish heart was darkened and so as Francis Schaeffer wrote in his book the God who got he is there, and he is not silent the God who is there.

What's the point. The point is that even in man's religions? What you have in man-made religion is an attempt to suppress the revelation that God has made of his own existence and If we will not Admit that he exists and will not deal with his own revelation.

Then we can religiously suppress that knowledge we can we can do that in the apathy we see in the society around us. We can do that in any form of idolatry and my is our culture steeped in idolatry. You say well, what do you mean?

I don't see any hideous idols on the street corners. Well actually you do almost every billboard you pass. Points us to the idolatry of our nation. To the fact that we take God's blessings, and we are not thankful for God's blessings.

That that we engage in constant covetousness. It's almost like our economic system is based upon The normality of covetousness. Hey just see what your neighbor got did you see that 60-inch well? We now have 68 inch TVs in stock.

What's the new thing 4k? Is that what the new thing is as far as a resolution? I don't know took me a long time to even get a flat screen, but You know however, that's that's working. That's that's just how we think that's how we are and in our in our universities in our academic settings.

It is the idolatry of the human mind the praise of the human mind not the human mind is created by God under the lordship of Christ. But the idolatry of the human mind that exists in and of itself without reference to its creator and without giving Thanks to its creator.

For everything and every capacity that it has This is idolatry. And notice what says they became futile in their speculations and their foolish heart was darkened when you rebel Against the source of life you will be damaged in the entirety of your being as a result if we are made to have communion with God when that communion is broken every Aspect of our being will be impacted including and this is a real violation of the dogma of secularism.

The mind.

The mind we as creatures Should think in such a way that honors God. If we were to think the way we're supposed to think God would not be a an object of knowledge out there. Instead we would see ourselves as a creature God as the center of all things and instead of putting ourselves in the center and then everything else We just think directly about it.

So here's history. Here's medicine. Here's law. Here's morality. Here's ethics. Here's science. We're in the center. God's out here, too. So we think about God and theology like that. That's a secular world, that's not how we are to think.

If we are God's creatures, then we are out here God is in the center and to have true knowledge of any of these things. We have knowledge of them as we relate to God. So if I want to have a true knowledge of science I do it through God.

I don't go directly to science. I Go through God who created the science and defines it if I want to have true knowledge of it and how it relates to everything Else that's a Christian worldview. Sadly, that's not how most of us think.

We talk about Christian worldview all the time. But how many of us actually expend almost any time during the course of the day. Repairing our Christian worldview if we've even properly formed one to begin with.

The vast majority of quote-unquote evangelical churches in our land are filled with people who have a pagan worldview. Not a Christian worldview. They've just slathered a bunch of Jesus stuff on the top.

You know, it's peanut butter Christianity and We wonder why they so easily collapse When challenges to fundamental biblical truths are presented to them especially when they're presented under the guise of what the society says is right and that is why my friends there will be a tsunami of Collapse Upon this very issue.

It's happening that the first waves are happening right now, but the tsunami will be happening over the next couple of years. We've already seen the liberal denominations, you know that the PCUSA Just a couple weeks ago gave in on this subject.

That didn't surprise anybody because all the conservatives were jumping ship out of the PCUSA for the past number of decades and finally, there's just so few left that they could no longer hold back the The the tide and so a couple weeks ago all it's left are liberals and so they collapsed on this.

But there's gonna be much more much much more From people that will shock you. Will shock you. It will be a tsunami. I guarantee it. You just watch. You just watch it's coming. Because you see the vast majority of people do not have a Christian worldview and the only way for you to understand why Capitulation on this issue is actually a gospel issue.

It's a capitulation to hatred. It's a capitulation to the culture of death. It's a capitulation of the very same forces that promote abortion in our society. The only way for you to understand that is if you have an actually well-formed Biblically based Christian worldview and most of our people don't have one.

They just don't have one. So you notice they became futile in their speculations their foolish heart was darkened the entirety of man is impacted by sin. Professing to be wise they became fools so they profess to be wise.

But you see the only what's what's the beginning of knowledge? It's the fear of the Lord once you reject the Lord and make your put yourself in his position. How can you have true knowledge? How can you have true wisdom?

But you'll claim it and boy do we hear that from our society today professing to be wise they became fools and here we go here's here's where you need to start tuning back in if you've if you've lost me and Exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man of birds and four-foot animals and crawling creatures.

Here is the essence of idolatry. If you will not worship the one you were created to worship. You will worship something. It may be the created order itself. It may be the gross Idolatry of people bowing down before idols which still happens go to India sometime or the more subtle forms that are so prevalent in Western society of The idolatry toward the mind of man towards science toward the fulfillment of one's lusts and desires.

There are many people whose idols they pay mortgage payments on. They pay the bank for that idol that they take out to the lake each weekend. The car they drive around.

The.

Plastic surgery that they've had done upon themselves to try to pretend that. The years are not passing by like they are for everybody else. Whatever it might be There is going to be an exchange. They exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for something else.

There is a fundamental Reorientation of the relationship between creator and creation. It's supposed to be like this it has become twisted in the fall of man. Therefore verse 24 God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity So that their bodies would be dishonored among them.

God Created the body of man to glorify Him when we keep our vessels In such a manner as to glorify God and we have him first and foremost in our thoughts. Then he is glorified and we will not engage in impure activity.

But now that this Exchange has taken place. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity. So their bodies would be dishonored among them when we sin when we take these gifts that God has given to us this life.

That he extends to us when we realize that every breath of our mouth every beat of our heart is being Extended to us by God and we take his gifts and use those gifts to rebel against him in utter foolishness.

There's going to be a result. These are impure actions. And so our bodies become dishonored Amongst us when we use our bodies in a way that God has said not to we are dishonoring our bodies. For verse 25 they exchanged the truth of God for a lie.

They exchanged the truth of God. It literally could be for the lie or in the lie Is another literal rendering of ento.

Sudai.

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and Worshipped and served the creature or the created order Rather than the Creator who is blessed forever. Amen. We are worshiping creatures. We will worship something and.

So this.

Twistedness. When we're not in the right relationship between creator and creature There is going to be a twistedness and so what should go to God now goes to the created order and the result is the dishonoring of our bodies and impurity.

That is the context of verse 26. That is the context of verse 26 now. You'll hear a lot of people who will say well look homosexuality is like any other sin. It's like gluttony. It's like anger.

No, it's not.

In the sense that it's sin and Therefore is subject to the wrath of God and can be repented of and Christ can redeem you from it. Yes. But in the next two verses Right after he describes this twisting of the creator-creation relationship.

What is the first example he gives? Homosexuality. And Possibly in verse 26 the only reference to lesbianism in the entire Bible. Why? Because what it illustrates is a fundamental Disordering of the created nature of man.

What did Jesus say? He made them male and female. You leave your father and your mother. The man cleaves to his wife. They're joined together. They become one flesh. That's how God made us and the only way to explain Acting upon same-sex attraction is this fundamental twisting of the creator-creation relationship.

For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions. Now it's absolutely amazing if you get a chance. I Have debated a number of people who promote homosexuality for a number of years now. One of my debates was a man by name Barry Lynn.

Barry Lynn shows up on Fox News and MSNBC. I'm not sure if anybody watches MSNBC, but it shows up on on these cable news networks he is the head of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State and He and I debated.

Again, I think it was 2001 on the subject of homosexuality. Interestingly enough two of the major debates I've done with leading figures he and Bishop John Shelby Spong on. The same subject is homosexuality compatible with biblical Christianity.

Neither one of them brought a Bible to the debate which just tells you something about the perspective they come from and Barry Lynn had to borrow my Bible as we looked at this text and. And the debates on on YouTube the sounds not great, but the debates on YouTube.

We had to sue. He tried to sue us. We sued him first we won and Got the right to distribute the debate. It's funny. Here's a man who had who had testified the child pornography is a guaranteed First Amendment right before Congress.

And yet he then tried to turn around and sue us to suppress the videotapes of the debate because he knew he lost so badly. And was so angry. See freedom of speech is only for one side when you're an ultra leftist as he is.

Anyway, even though he's allegedly a minister of the gospel, but it's the United Church of Christ. Which hasn't been a Christian denomination for many many decades.

Anyway.

Listen to Barry Lynn try to get around that phrase degrading passions. Mr. Lynn. What's a degrading passion? I kept asking him. It was sad to listen. We know that Degrading passion is not a good thing.

He was trying to say that Paul's really not talking about about sins here and You just go. Okay. God gave them over to degrading passions. Pathos is the Greek passions of dishonor for even and I think I think it.

I Take our I think could substantiate the translation for even their women. Exchange the natural function for that which is unnatural or against nature. Even their women. Now, why would that be? Because the maternal instinct all through the Bible is something that God praises.

Think how many times God even uses the idea of the nursing mother the idea of the mother caring for the child as an illustration of his own care for his covenant people. It is a divine thing you think of the the near supernatural capacity of A woman to care for her child.

I mean, I I feel sorry for him. I've told the story once more than once if you're a parent. You had a couple of those nights with the newborn remember I Remember one my firstborn my son, I Don't know what he ate and I don't know what the terminal pressure of that diaper was.

But it finally failed the explosion was epic almost nuclear and We're awoken at two o 'clock in the morning and There is Stuff not only all over the crib, but the wall behind the crib too. And when you get up at two o 'clock in the morning, I don't know what the capacity is.

I Don't know that I would have it anymore at my age but you know what you just do what you got to do and my wife gets the bath going and I pick up this dripping mess and that wasn't the diaper that was the kid and I Take it in to mom and Mom begins the cleaning process and I begin the cleaning process to you know What's left of the diaper and everything in the in the in the crib?

And you pull it out and you clean the wall and you just do what you got to do. I don't know where that capacity comes from. But it's your kid and you've got to do it. It's just that I think that is one of the greatest ways God has ever designed to absolutely rip the selfishness right out of us.

Is to put that little baby in our life who is the absolute epicenter of selfishness. Um, but you find a way to do it and you just that's just what parents being parents all about. And some of you young people are going i'm not sure i'm really I think i'll keep putting marriage off.

Uh, you know, um I mean the average age now for a man to marry is 28. I was 19. And i'm glad I was. I'm, really glad I was.

I don't.

Get what's going on in the current generation. But anyway, anyway We go back to the text. Even they're women. There is no meaningful Way around what paul's saying. Here the revisionists will come up with all sorts of ways to try to get around this.

They normally focus upon verse 27 i'll tell you what they say there but there is No reason. In the language in the culture in the background in jewish studies in any kind of studies. To avoid what's being spoken of here.

The first illustration that paul gives of how the twisting of the creator creation relationship Results in a fundamental degradation of human relationships is lesbianism. Even women who desire those children.