August 10, 2018 Show with Ryan Davidson on “A Covenant Feast: Reflections on the Lord’s Table”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host Chris Arnton. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth.

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We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this 10th day of August 2018.

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I'm so delighted to have someone on the program for the very first time. His name is

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J. Ryan Davidson and Pastor Davidson received his

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B .A. from Samford University. He received his M .Ed. from the

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College of William and Mary. He received his T .H .M. from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and he is a

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Ph .D. candidate in the patristic pastoral theology at the

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Free University of Amsterdam in the Netherlands. He is an author of a number of books including

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Thinking Through Anxiety. He's a teacher adjunctly at several institutions including being an adjunct professor in pastoral theology at the all -new

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IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas, a new sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and he is a pastor at Grace Baptist Chapel in Hampton, Virginia.

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Today we are going to be discussing one of his books A Covenant Feast Reflections on the

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Lord's Table and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor J.

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Ryan Davidson. Thank you, Chris. It's an honor to be here and to be talking with you.

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Great and it was a pleasure also meeting you face to face at the most recent Banner of Truth Conference in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania and I hope

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I get a longer period of time providentially from our

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Lord to share fellowship with you in greater depth the next time God may cause our paths to cross.

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But I am delighted that that brief meeting resulted in today's interview. Well, first of all, before we go into your personal testimony of salvation, which is something that we have first -time guests do on a regular basis, especially when they're

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Christian, of course, sometimes once in a blue moon, I interview somebody who's not a Christian for some particular reason that is value for the church.

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But when we have a Christian on the first time, especially we typically have a summary given of their salvation, what kind of religious atmosphere they were raised in and what providential circumstances the

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Lord brought about in their lives to draw them to himself and save them. But before we do that, let us know something about Grace Baptist Chapel in Hampton, Virginia.

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Well, Grace Baptist Chapel is the church that I currently pastor. We've just celebrated being here about 10 years, and it is a wonderful and sweet fellowship of believers.

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And my wife, Christy, and I couldn't be more thankful for this body. It's a confessionally reformed

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Baptist church. The church itself is about 40 years old, maybe a couple years, give or take, and we've been here, our family, just shy of about 10 years.

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Now, has it always been, from your knowledge, a confessionally reformed church in all those 40 years?

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No. At various points, I think there have been different statements of faith.

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In the past, I believe the 1689 Confession was amended and was the church's confession, but when we came to Grace about 10 years ago, the church kind of officially had sort of a new covenant theology framework.

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And so over the last 10 years, a lot has changed in the body, and about two, two and a half years ago, we officially adopted the

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London Baptist Confession of Faith as our statement of faith. Well, praise

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God. And now, let's hear something about your own story, about what kind of religion, if any, you were raised in, and how the

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Lord drew you to Himself and saved you. Sure. I was raised in a

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Christian family. My father is, was and is a

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Southern Baptist pastor, and, you know, I grew up kind of a typical pastor's child in the sense that every time the church doors were open,

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I was there along with my family, and it was a, you know, conservative Southern Baptist family.

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I believe I came to know the Lord at a young age, somewhere around the age of five.

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Of course, I'm not, I'm convinced that my understanding of the

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Gospel has grown quite a bit from when I was five, but came to know the

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Lord at a young age, and then walked with Him.

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And in college, I had some seasons of wrestling, and it was shortly after college that I think the

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Lord really worked in my life in several ways.

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And I was sent to Collingdon Ministry as a child, but that kind of came to fruition after college, and so I'm thankful.

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There's a lot that I could say, but I'm thankful for God's providence and His grace,

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His sovereign grace, and just drawing, you know, an unworthy sinner to Himself. So that's a little bit of a story.

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Now, how did you begin to realize that the Lord had placed a call upon your life to enter into pastoral ministry?

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Well, I think the tangible means that He used were a set of circumstances.

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I was a musician from early childhood, and I, growing up, the neighborhood that I lived in, my father was a

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Southern Baptist pastor, and next to us was another Southern Baptist pastor, and that church lost its pianist.

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And one thing led to another, and they asked me to fill in for a few weeks to play the piano, and that actually turned into several years.

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And my family and I talked about whether I should go to another church or not, and I don't know how I would think about that decision today, but as I was at that church serving as a mid -teenager just playing the piano,

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I began to think about service in the church, and it was through that experience that I really believe

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I began to sense a calling to spend vocational energies in the service of the

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Lord. So that's kind of tangibly how it kind of unfolded, and then went to college and began to think about a trajectory of preparation for ministry.

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One thing I failed to do in the beginning when I had you describe for our listeners the church where you serve as pastor,

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I forgot to have you tell us a little bit about, even though we've done this on a number of times on this program, tell us a little something about the all -new

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IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas, where you serve on the faculty.

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And I know that you were also with the Institute for Reform Baptist Studies before it became a full -blown seminary, so tell us about both of those institutions.

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Well, so I didn't have an official connection with IRBS until several years ago.

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I met and spent some time with Dr. James Renahan and became friends with him, and one of the emphases that I've spent some research as well as vocational time in is the area of counseling and pastoral care.

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And as IRBS was transitioning from Westminster, California there to becoming a full standalone seminary,

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I was humbled that the brothers there asked me to consider teaching a counseling class.

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And so, you know, in God's providence, one thing led to another, and the board approved me as a teacher for that course, and I'm very humbled by that opportunity, and I believe classes, inaugural classes, if you will, begin in just a few weeks.

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And so it's encouraging to see what God is doing among the confessionally

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Reformed Baptist churches, and just how this seminary might be a small or large piece of that.

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Yes, well, we are eagerly looking forward to beginning to air their commercials, because they have already agreed and paid for a full year of sponsorship for Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and we know that Matt Stahl over there is just taking his time to make sure everything is as perfect as humanly possible before submitting the commercials to us.

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We're also going to be interviewing, I'm sure eventually, all of the faculty members there, and hopefully you will be on again in the future, in fact, multiple times, and we're looking forward to that as well.

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And just to let our listeners know, I'm hoping to announce this later, but with my memory, you never know,

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I may forget. But if you want more information about the IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas, you can go to irbsseminary .org.

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That's irbsseminary .org. And remember, there's two S's back -to -back. Sometimes when there's two letters back -to -back, people skip one of them accidentally when they're writing in a

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URL. But this is irbsseminary .org. And so now we are coming to our main theme today, the book that you have written,

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A Covenant Feast, Reflections on the Lord's Table. And as you know, there are many books that are dedicated to this ordinance of the church, the

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Lord's Supper, also known as communion, also known as the Lord's Table, as you have titled it in your subtitle here.

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The Eucharist, and there are other names for what is known as the

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Lord's Table. There are books that are dedicated solely to this topic.

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There are books that include this as a major theme in a larger volume. Why did you find the need to add a new volume to this subject, which indeed is a very important subject?

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Sure. Well, firstly, let me say a lot of those books that are out there are books that I would encourage people to read before reading this book that I've written.

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In other words, I think they're far more important than this little work. But this work kind of came out of a sermon series that our church went through several years ago on the ordinary means of grace, and it's kind of written as the three chapters that are essentially those sermons.

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And what I wanted was to try to put into print an accessible resource for people, particularly

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Baptists, who may have knowingly or unknowingly grown up in a context where the

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Lord's Supper was practiced infrequently, and it was viewed sort of as simply a memorial. You know, many people may not even have those categories, that term.

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But I wanted to put together a resource that kind of was accessible, was short, and kind of helped people understand what the

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Lord's Supper really is and why it's of benefit to the believer beyond just something that you occasionally do to maybe think about Jesus in the context of a worship service.

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So, you know, again, I think there are so many good books. It wasn't that there was a lack of good titles as much as I wanted to kind of put something there that we could hand out or was available to the average person in the pew.

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Yes, the memorialist view is also commonly known as the

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Zwinglian view, named after Ulrich Zwingli. But I know that there are historians who actually disagree whether Zwingli actually held to a strictly memorialist view of the

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Lord's Table. In fact, I've had people on this program who disagreed on what

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Zwingli believed in this area. But was this the position that you had at some point in your life before coming to the conclusion that there was more than a memorial going on?

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Yes. And I don't think I knew knowingly of that until, you know,

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I began to study theology. I mean, I think growing up in our context, you know, we observed the

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Lord's Supper every two to three months, maybe in some churches every quarter. And I didn't really have much instruction on what it was.

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And I think when I came to the biblical conviction that it's a means of grace and that it's really a celebration of Christ's spiritual presence among his covenant people, it really took on not just a new theological meaning, but for me, practically, it was really earth -shattering.

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Because, you know, some of the pieces came together on the importance of the

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Lord's Supper, but of the benefits of it. And that's something that our church then walked through together, and it was really a precious season for us.

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We went from practicing it as a church when I got there to maybe once every other month to once every other week, and it's become a staple in the life of our

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Lord's Day gatherings. And it's just a really precious thing to see not only the theological shift, but just the practical benefit that we receive as we prepare for the

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Lord's Table and as it becomes a regular rhythm in the life of our church.

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And, well, if you could hammer out for us the major different views on the

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Lord's Table, obviously there is one view in particular that the

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Reformers and their heirs, meaning you and I, and those in the historically and biblically faithful Protestant church, have believed for centuries that this particular view is not only heretical, but it is idolatrous as well.

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We're speaking about the mass of the Roman Catholic Church that they believe it's a transforming, a transubstantiation is taking place where the elements are said to actually become the body and blood of Christ.

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And it is considered a propitiatory sacrifice, an unbloody sacrifice, but a propitiatory one nonetheless.

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And the faithful Catholic actually worships the elements of the bread and wine.

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But if you could go from there, and then we'll start going to other views such as whatever you know about the

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Lutheran view, and then some other views that are held differently within the evangelical church at large.

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Right, right. Well, just one, you summarized that well, brother, on transubstantiation.

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You know, our confession, the London Confession of Faith, actually has a whole paragraph denouncing, you know, that idea.

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Chapter 30, paragraph 6, and it speaks to the idea of the consecration of the priest and calls it idolatry.

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And so there is certainly that view of transubstantiation.

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I think, you know, there's consubstantiation, and depending on who you ask,

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I mean, you might get a nuanced discussion here. It might be more, it's a longer discussion than maybe we have time for, but just sort of the subtle differences, or large differences perhaps, in the

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Christology, the doctrine of Christ between the Lutheran position and the Reformed position. But in short, you know, the consubstantiation position would not be as far as the

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Roman Catholic position, but that there is sort of a view of the presence of Christ in connection with the elements physically, whereas I would argue the

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Reformed view is that, because of our understanding of the doctrine of Christ, we can, when we come to the

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Lord's table, hold to a presence of Christ, but a spiritual presence of Christ, not contained in the elements themselves, either by transubstantiation or by connection to the physical elements.

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And so you have this transubstantiation of the Roman Catholic Church, you've got consubstantiation, which is not as far on the spectrum, perhaps.

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And I also understand, having spoken with and interviewing Lutherans, that many

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Lutherans in the Missouri Synod and other conservative branches of Lutheranism, they do not like to be tied down to the title, consubstantiation.

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They think that there is more mystery involved than can be spelled out in a description like that.

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Have you found that to be as well? You're absolutely right, and that's sort of what I was kind of hinting at when

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I said there's, depending on who you talk to, there's some nuance there, because I've come across some brief discussions where Lutherans, you worded it well, there's not, either they view that people misunderstand their understanding of consubstantiation, or they don't want to be tied down to it.

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So I think it's charitable and fair to admit that that's probably within Lutheranism, there's a spectrum there.

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Well, now we have, within Evangelicalism, we have those that view the celebration of the

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Lord's Supper purely as a memorial. I mean, after all, Jesus did say, do this in memory of me.

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So we cannot rule out that it is, in part, a memorial. But then you also have

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John Calvin's view that involves a spiritual presence.

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I could never really 100 % fully wrap my head around that particular view, which is possibly the view that you're advocating today.

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What exactly is meant by a spiritual understanding of the presence of Christ in the

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Eucharist that is not specifically talking about a spiritual presence limited to the elements, the actual elements of bread and wine?

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Right, I think a good place to start with that may be the confession itself, and then to kind of move into, okay, how do we think about the

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London Baptist Confession connecting with Calvin's, or the view that is attributed dominantly to Calvin as the spiritual presence?

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I mean, I think what was new to me, which has become so valuable and has become so precious, is in our confession in chapter 30, paragraph 7, it says that worthy receivers, outwardly partaking of the visible elements in this ordinance, do then also inwardly by faith, really and indeed, yet not carnally and corporately, but spiritually receive and feed upon Christ crucified and all the benefits of his death, the body and blood of Christ being then not corporally or carnally, but spiritually present to the faith of believers in that ordinance, as the elements themselves are to their outward senses.

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So I think we start there in the sense that in the Lord's Supper, we are taking physical, tangible elements, and we're putting them in our mouths, we taste them, we chew them, we swallow them, and they are eaten by us.

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And as Reformed adherents, those with a Reformed understanding, we don't believe that we have in any way eaten carnally or corporately

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Christ, but that the eating that we have done is a feeding on Christ spiritually.

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And then I think that helps us to understand both what is occurring in our eating, but that our souls are being nourished spiritually.

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But then if we zoom out and say, okay, well, okay, we can say we're being spiritually nourished, but how about this idea of Christ being spiritually present?

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And it's there that I would say that while Christ's risen and ascended body is present at the right hand of the

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Majesty on High, that as believers commune with Him spiritually through the

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Spirit, there is a sense in which He is the ruling and reigning Savior, a kind of Ephesians 1 -2 language, that He is ruling and reigning now, and He is present with His Church.

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There is special spiritual communion that we have with Christ uniquely at the

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Supper. And then I think a good biblical text for this is 1

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Corinthians 10 verse 16. And there the

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Word of the Lord addresses the idea that we have fellowship or koinonia with the

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Body and Blood of Christ. And so that's probably too succinct of a summary, but I think that's where I would start.

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Yes, and whatever view that one comes to being a

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Berean and seeking to be obedient and seeking to do all things according to what the

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God -breathed words of the scriptures teach us to do, we can never be, and we must never be, guilty of idolatry when it comes to the actual elements of this

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Feast, this Supper, as the Roman Catholics are clearly guilty of.

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Right, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I know that you have broken down this book into three major sections.

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It starts with a covenant sign, and then leads to fellowship with Jesus, and then finally how to take the

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Lord's Supper. I'll have you, when we come back from our first station break, begin with how you begin in the book as far as the

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Lord's Supper being a covenant sign, and then we'll move on to the other major elements that you have there in the book.

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If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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Mike Gaydosh, so please continue to pray for him. We are now back with our guest today,

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Pastor J. Ryan Davidson. We're discussing his book, A Covenant Feast, Reflections on the

36:50

Lord's Table, and if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com,

36:56

that's c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

37:04

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question is a personal and private matter. Well, let's start where you start in the book, a covenant sign, the covenant feast, the

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Lord's table, the Lord's Supper, Holy Communion, Holy Eucharist, however you want to phrase it, is a covenant sign, if you could tell us about that.

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Yes, the first chapter really is kind of an exposition of Mark 14 22 through 25, the

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Gospel of Mark account of the institution of the Lord's Supper.

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And really in that chapter, I'm picking apart that passage of Scripture, and there's kind of several points that come to the surface in the chapter, but the main ones center around the fact that the

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Lord's Supper is the Word of Christ made visible to the one who comes to the table, that it's a

38:09

Word in invisible form, and we also, and I'll explain these briefly, but as such, it's a covenant sign, a sign of the covenant of grace or the new covenant, but it's also a sign that causes the covenant promises to be reaffirmed to the believer, and it's something that points us to what is to come.

38:42

And so I kind of unpack those things in the first chapter and also discuss the fact that as a means of grace, it is more than a memorial.

38:57

You know, I use the language that well, I think the Scriptures, but the early

39:02

Baptists didn't view this meal as something like a tombstone where you just remember someone who has died, but it's an actual meal.

39:12

It's feasting upon the promises of Christ received by faith, and so the chapter kind of walks through all of those points.

39:23

The only other thing that I'll say is when we say that it's a visible Word, you know,

39:28

I'm aided by other brothers, contemporary to me, who've helped me kind of put some pieces together there, but really, we're all indebted to Augustine and his work,

39:42

Contra Faustum, who kind of speaks to sacraments, really, as visible words or the words made visible.

39:51

And so I kind of talk about those things in this specific chapter. Now, okay, if you could please spell out in detail and as clearly as you can, what exactly do you mean and what do other confessionally

40:06

Reformed people mean when they say that the ordinance and sometimes called the sacrament, but there is disagreement amongst even

40:13

Reformed people on whether to call it a sacrament or not, but that it's a means of grace.

40:19

What does exactly that mean, that it's a means of grace? Excellent, excellent question.

40:26

I think really a good place for us as confessionally

40:33

Reformed Baptists to see that lifted out of the scriptures and put into a language that we can confess as is, when the confession speaks of saving faith, it speaks to how our faith is wrought within us, but how it's also strengthened and increased.

40:54

So for instance, the London Confession says in chapter 14, paragraph 1, the grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls is the work of the

41:05

Spirit of Christ in their hearts and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word, by which also and by the administration of baptism and the

41:13

Lord's Supper, prayer and other means appointed of God, it is increased and strengthened.

41:19

So conversion is wrought by the Spirit of God in the hearts of believers through the preaching of the

41:28

Word, but it's through the preaching of the Word as well as baptism and the Lord's Supper and prayer that our faith is strengthened and increased.

41:36

So it is a means or a channel or mechanism that the Lord uses to grow us and nurture us in our faith, and that's what

41:44

I mean when I use the phrase means of grace, and I think, if I'm not mistaken, that's sort of the standard

41:53

Reformed understanding of what a means of grace is. It also contrasts historically confessionally

42:03

Reformed Christians from our hyper -Calvinist friends who think that any use of means in our understanding is a violation of God's sovereignty and is actually, in their minds,

42:18

Arminian and heretical. I know that the primitive

42:23

Baptists are, find a, and I don't want to broad brush, but many of them find it troubling, extremely troubling, even to view the preaching of the

42:36

Gospel as a means of grace, because they, because they being, many of them being hyper -Calvinists, will remove what historically and biblically faithful Reformed people have always viewed as that human beings may not have a role in our election.

42:58

We don't have a role in our regeneration, but we do have a role as far as what

43:09

God has commanded us to do. He's commanded us to preach the Gospel, and he's also commanded us to believe it.

43:15

So there are means that God uses to bring about his ends, am I right? Yes, yes, absolutely.

43:23

All right, well we have a listener in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, Gordy, who says, you'll probably be repeating yourself a little bit, but Gordy says,

43:34

How can I best communicate that the Lord's Supper is a means of grace to my brothers and sisters in Christ who have a strictly memorial idea so firmly embedded in their minds?

43:44

And what I might add to that, since you've really covered that, when we're communicating it to our brothers and sisters who disagree with that,

43:57

I can understand how many people are frightened of attaching to themselves some kind of a superstitious notion that it's too close to what

44:14

Rome believes about this ceremony, especially a former

44:19

Roman Catholic like myself. We want to be clear that we are not buying into something that some of our

44:29

Reformed Brethren have maintained. As you know, Reformed Baptists, we believe that we have brought the

44:37

Reformation further than our Paedo -Baptist Brethren, and no insult intended to our

44:44

Paedo -Baptist Brethren, but we do believe that many of our other

44:50

Brethren in the Reformed camp or in the Reformation camp, such as our

44:55

Lutheran friends and Brethren, they have retained too much of what

45:00

Rome taught that is unbiblical. So I can understand how some Christians, especially if they were formerly enslaved to the idolatry of Rome, how they might be very leery of, and they may have a knee -jerk reaction to this kind of conversation.

45:17

So if you could help Gordy be further equipped to communicate this to brothers and sisters in Christ, to have the strictly memorial concept.

45:27

Sure. Maybe just a practical suggestion or two, and then maybe a resource beyond this book that might be helpful.

45:37

You know, it's interesting in the discussion that while, for instance, myself,

45:44

I want to argue against the Lord's Supper being only a memorial, there is a sense in which rather than going to a person who holds a memorialist position and saying, you're wrong,

45:59

I think a better approach would be to gently and lovingly say, you know, brother, I think there's even more.

46:05

There is a memorial. It's not wrong to say that we remember Christ in the

46:11

Lord's Supper or at the Lord's table. But I think where I was lacking as a believer was that I didn't realize there was more, that there was spiritual nourishment that is occurring, and that there are texts of the scripture that point to that.

46:26

So, you know, my approach is going to be based on the person with whom I'm speaking, but I might try the approach of not saying they're wrong that it's a memorial.

46:36

I think the issue is, it's not simply or only a memorial, but there's more to it.

46:42

Right, because it is a memorial, and that is a part of what it is. Right, right, and so almost encouraging gently the person to see that, yes, it is a memorial, and there's even more richness to the supper than they may be realizing.

46:59

And that's potentially the approach that I would take. And in the first chapter, I kind of look at that, but it's really, and we can talk about this in a moment if you like, but it's really the second chapter that I kind of flesh that out.

47:15

I will say for someone who kind of wants a cursory look at this issue, this book may be helpful, but a book that I really think is helpful and was very helpful to me on the issue of the

47:29

Lord's Supper being more than a memorial is Richard Barcellos' book,

47:36

More Than a Memory. And I think that book is more academically written and may even have a lot more information for Gordy and others to kind of walk through.

47:51

The Lord's Supper is a means of grace, more than a memory by Richard Barcellos. Yeah, I've got to get Richard to discuss that on the show at some point.

47:58

We've discussed other books of his, but so far we haven't touched that one, and I would love to. But yeah, so in other words, the contrast might be between your book and his that his book might be more intended to include an academic audience, where yours is more to not only include academics, but perhaps more concerned with lay people.

48:21

And I hate that term, but for lack of a better term to distinguish between ordained ministers and scholars who have been trained in seminary, opened up to the average

48:35

Christian. Right, absolutely. I mean, his book has sections where there are original language passages listed out, and it was very helpful to me.

48:44

In fact, I would say much of my thinking in one of these chapters is really aided a lot by his.

48:50

But you put your finger on it, Chris. I mean, my book is just kind of a summary of three different aspects, whereas his really dives deep in the issue related to, in some sense, 1

49:05

Corinthians 10 -16 and Christ's spiritual presence. And so that's a very helpful book, and I would just tell someone, if you can only read one, read that one.

49:15

But yeah, that's the difference between the two. And if you want to get that book, More Than a

49:20

Memory by Richard Barcillos, you could go to cvbbs .com. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

49:27

who sponsor this program. If they don't have it already in stock, they can order it very quickly for you.

49:35

Let's go to another. Oh, by the way, Gordy, you have won a free copy of A Covenant Feast by our guest today,

49:42

Pastor J. Ryan Davidson. And since you live in Mechanicsburg and you are so close to the

49:48

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service store on North Hanover Street in Carlisle, why don't you just swing by there

49:55

Monday, and it will be waiting there for you. It's already there. And if you can make it there before they close today, which

50:03

I doubt, but they do have it waiting there for you. So your best bet is to stop by Monday to pick that up.

50:09

Thank you very much for joining us on the air with a question for our program.

50:15

We have a listener, Brandon in Franklinton, North Carolina.

50:24

He says, almost every church at which I've been a member has only taken the

50:29

Lord's Supper once a quarter. When I've questioned leaders about this, I have been told more than once that if we do it too often, it will lose its meaning and become an empty ritual.

50:42

Have you heard this objection? If so, what is the most gracious way to respond to this lack of appreciation for the

50:49

Lord's table? And perhaps, Brandon, you've assumed too much in that last sentence.

50:55

It may not be a lack of appreciation, but they may truly believe what they said as far as it becoming an empty ritual.

51:02

But I agree with Brandon that I don't accept that answer, because if you are going to use that as a rule of thumb, if you do something too often, it will become an empty ritual.

51:14

Then why don't we go to church once a month? In fact, some of the primitive Baptists do that as well.

51:20

They only have worship services once a month. But do you have an answer for Brandon in Franklinton, North Carolina?

51:27

Sure, that's a good question, Brandon. I mean, I think firstly, you know, the issue of the frequency of the

51:35

Lord's table and Lord's Supper observance in an otherwise biblically faithful church is not something that you should separate over,

51:44

I think, or cause disruption over, not that that's what Brandon is saying that he's doing, but yes,

51:51

I have heard that. I'm a proponent of regular Lord's Supper.

51:57

Would you say that by regular weekly, every Sunday? I would, I think, appreciate it most weekly.

52:04

Our church currently does it every other week, and no one in our church has said that they're against doing it every week.

52:13

And we have gone through seasons where we've done it every week instead of every other week, but I do think you could make a case that the early church, seemingly, from a couple of passages in the

52:23

Scripture, devoted themselves, according to Acts chapter 2, to the breaking of bread to the

52:32

Lord's Supper, as I take it, and that there is indication that that's a regular occurrence.

52:39

Yeah, I think that if you think it is any less than that, then you shouldn't be using it as your proof that we worship on Sunday rather than Saturday.

52:49

Right. To me, they go hand -in -hand. If you're going to use it as a proof text or as a biblical example that the

52:57

Lord's people gathered as a corporate body for worship on Sunday rather than their

53:04

Jewish forefathers who worshipped on Saturday, I think it goes hand -in -hand that you have to then say, well,

53:11

I guess then the Lord's Supper must be a weekly ordinance. And I think, you know, having charitable and respectful conversations with church leaders,

53:24

I mean, you know, I mean, we don't say the same thing about preaching. We don't say of preaching, well, let's not do it every week or it'll lose its value, and see,

53:33

I'm equating preaching as a means of grace, just like I am the Lord's Supper, and so to me, both become vital parts of the regulated worship of the

53:43

Church, and they are the ordinary means that we are to regularly go to. So yes,

53:49

I think the impulse, and I don't know, Brandon, but I think the impulse to observe the

53:54

Lord's Supper more frequently is a good one. I think, obviously, there are ways to go about having that conversation, you know, with church leaders.

54:02

But I'm certainly a proponent of observing it more rather than less.

54:08

Well, yeah, it seems to me that if you do it anything less than weekly, you are creating a man -made tradition in the

54:19

Church connected to a biblical ordinance. I mean, we all have man -made traditions when we gather for worship in some level.

54:28

I mean, you know, like our order of worship, for instance, the specific liturgy we might have doesn't, you know, there's no blueprint for an exact, detailed, minute -by -minute liturgy that you have in the

54:41

Bible. So we do bring our traditions into the Church, but at the same time, when it's something as important as the

54:47

Lord's Supper, it seems to me that when you do it less than every week, you are doing it according to a man -made tradition.

54:55

Am I going too far there? Well, as one who loves observing the

55:01

Lord's Supper, you know, I'm zealous for it. But I see exactly what you're saying. I mean, let me say this.

55:09

I have known people even in our own Church who, when we started to do it more, you know, thought, well, you know, is it going to lose its value?

55:20

Or maybe it adds to the length of the service, those kinds of things, and then have come over this last year or two to really love it, and are glad that we do it, because, and again, part of this is a theological assumption on my part, but because if indeed it is a means of grace, the

55:40

Lord uses it, and we begin to long for it as we observe it.

55:47

And when I say long for it, I don't mean in an idolatrous way. It is a means through which we are fed by the only one that we worship, you know, our

55:56

Triune God. So I've seen a Church go from observing it less to more, and to see individual people, men and women, really begin to appreciate the fact that we do it regularly, and it's become sweet to them.

56:12

Well, we have to go to our midway break right now. It is a longer than normal break, because Grace Life Radio 90 .1

56:18

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break since they air their own commercials and public service announcements during that period.

56:26

So please make good use of this time. Not only write down the questions that you have for our guest today,

56:33

Pastor J. Ryan Davidson, on a covenant feast, Reflections on the Lord's Table, but also write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more successfully and frequently patronize them.

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back after these messages with J. Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes

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Lord's Table, we just have a couple of very important announcements to make. First of all, coming up next month on September 7th, which is a

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James White advertise on this show, the G3 Conference returns to College Park, Georgia at the

01:13:54

Georgia International Convention Center. This will be from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th on the theme,

01:14:03

The Mission of God, A Biblical Understanding of Missions. There is also a Spanish -speaking edition of the conference that's entirely in Spanish, so tell your

01:14:14

Spanish -speaking and bilingual friends about that. That's going to be on Wednesday, January 16th at the

01:14:23

Georgia International Convention Center. But the English -speaking conference from the 17th through the 19th of January includes on its speaking roster

01:14:30

James White, John Piper, Stephen Lawson, Bode Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M.

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Bayway, Tim Chalies, Phil Johnson, who's the Executive Director of John MacArthur's ministry, grace to you,

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01:14:54

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It's chrisarnson at gmail .com, put advertising in the subject line. That's also the email address where you send in a question for our guest today,

01:17:28

Pastor J. Ryan Davidson, on our theme, A Covenant Feast, Reflections on the Lord's Table.

01:17:34

It's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. And now we go to the second section of the book,

01:17:42

Pastor Ryan, Fellowship with Jesus. How is the Lord's Table Fellowship with Jesus specifically?

01:17:49

I know you've already touched on some of those things, but if you could be more specific on this in more detail.

01:17:57

Sure. In chapter two, we talk about the idea that Christ is present in the

01:18:09

Lord's Supper. And we talked briefly about this, but I take a lot of this chapter as sort of an exposition of 1

01:18:19

Corinthians 10, 16, where the scripture speaks to the fact that we have communion or fellowship.

01:18:28

You know, the word of the Lord says, the cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ?

01:18:34

The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? And that word from which we get the word communion, there's koinonia.

01:18:41

And we kind of speak to the idea that, okay, how is it that we have fellowship with the body and blood of Christ?

01:18:49

Is indeed the scripture saying that the Roman Catholics have it right, that we're literally partaking of the corporeal, you know, the body and blood of Christ?

01:19:02

Well, certainly not. So then what does that mean? And the chapter kind of speaks to the idea that Christ is present.

01:19:13

I reference in the book Sinclair Ferguson and his work,

01:19:20

The Holy Spirit. He says this regarding Christ.

01:19:26

He says, so he is also present in the supper, not in the bread and wine, but by the powers of the

01:19:31

Spirit. The body and blood of Christ are not enclosed in the elements, since he is at the right hand of the

01:19:36

Father, Acts 321. But by the power of the Spirit, we are brought into his presence, and he stands among us.

01:19:44

Again, that's Sinclair Ferguson in his book on the Holy Spirit. But the idea of Christ standing among us,

01:19:49

I really think is beautifully seen in the last book of the Bible, in Revelation, where we see

01:19:56

Christ standing among the lampstands, standing among his churches. And, you know, I think we all as Christians, particularly if we grow up in the church, we think of, you know,

01:20:07

God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, being present with us.

01:20:15

But there is a unique element to the Lord's Supper, and the idea that when we come to the table,

01:20:22

Christ is spiritually made known to us. So that chapter kind of walks through that and unpacks it.

01:20:31

You know, I have had conversations with, many conversations with Roman Catholics.

01:20:38

I used to be a Roman Catholic, by the way. I was born and raised in a Roman Catholic family. I was an altar boy. I went to Roman Catholic parochial school during my grammar school years from first to eighth grade.

01:20:49

I got saved by the sovereign grace of God in my mid -20s in the 1980s and was delivered from that false church.

01:20:58

But in my conversations with Roman Catholics, most Roman Catholics, unless you have a rare meeting or encounter with a really right -wing traditionalist who denies everything that Vatican II produced that was not echoing the

01:21:23

First Vatican Council, they believe, the traditionalists believe that much of Vatican II introduced novel and false teachings into the

01:21:35

Catholic Church. But that is a tiny minority of Catholics today. It certainly wouldn't include the Pope. But if you ask your average

01:21:42

Catholic, or Roman Catholics, the only one's going to heaven, and 99 % of them will, if not even more than that, 99 .99999

01:21:52

% of them will say, of course not. I take them to John chapter 6, 53.

01:22:00

So Jesus said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the

01:22:05

Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. Now, if they are to interpret that, that they are feasting on the literal body and blood of Christ, then how on earth can any

01:22:20

Protestant or anyone else outside of the Church of Rome have life in them? They can't.

01:22:26

And the Church of Rome today is obviously extremely ecumenical, even their Catholic catechism is extremely ecumenical, even including non -Christian

01:22:37

Jews and Muslims into the circle of those who are children of God, and yet they still stand firm that this teaches transubstantiation.

01:22:50

You can't have your cake and eat it too, pardon the pun, can you, when it comes to this? Yeah, yeah.

01:22:56

I mean, because unless you are actually partaking in the Roman Catholic Mass, according to that interpretation of this text, you can't have life in you.

01:23:06

So anyway, I've never heard a Roman Catholic give an adequate answer to that. Let's see here, we have some more listener questions here.

01:23:18

And I'm looking for them now, I had them right in front of me. Oh, here they go. We have an anonymous question, anonymous listener who says, does it matter whether churches use grape juice or wine in the

01:23:32

Lord's Supper? I'm not sure why that was written anonymously. Maybe the person works for either the Welch's grape juice company or perhaps

01:23:39

Manischewitz. I'm not sure. But does it matter whether churches use grape juice or wine?

01:23:47

Oh, that's a great question. Let me lead by saying what our church does.

01:23:53

We have both available at the Lord's Supper. Our church, for the first seven years or so that I was here, used only grape juice.

01:24:03

And we switched to having both available because some would argue that the regulative principle strictly applied, implies that we should use wine only.

01:24:18

And again, just for listeners, I mean, the regulative principle is the idea that we only do in public worship what the scripture prescribes.

01:24:27

And yet, we at our church were sensitive to the fact that you could also make the case that grape juice is still fruit of the vine.

01:24:36

And so we wanted to make both available. So there wasn't that transition stumbling block.

01:24:42

I prefer wine. But if I went to a church that only had grape juice,

01:24:47

I wouldn't feel like it wasn't the Lord's Supper that was being observed.

01:24:53

However, I am sensitive to the fact that I believe that when Jesus instituted the

01:24:59

Lord's Supper, he was not using grape juice, that what he was offering to his disciples had some level of fermentation in it.

01:25:07

Well, then would you also insist that unleavened bread be used? Because there are a lot of churches that use

01:25:14

Wonder Bread or just regular old leavened bread. Let's see, that's a great question as well.

01:25:22

You know, I know that there are brothers and sisters on both sides of the bread issue and both sides of the wine grape juice issue.

01:25:31

So I would not insist, and I know that would bother some people, but I am sensitive to wanting to try to get things right, to want to understand what's the best way to honor the

01:25:43

Lord and to follow what we think his word lays out for us. But literally, no,

01:25:49

I wouldn't insist upon that necessarily. In other words, you wouldn't insist upon unleavened bread?

01:25:59

Right, although that's what we utilize. One of the obvious sensitive issues involving the fermentation question involves people like me who were formerly, prior to being delivered from this sin, we were drunkards.

01:26:19

And there's all kinds of theories involved in what has become known as alcoholism.

01:26:26

I don't like that phrase because I think it's too medicinal. I prefer to call it drunkenness, the sin of drunkenness.

01:26:34

Or I could even say that a person may be addicted to alcohol.

01:26:43

That doesn't remove the fact that they have responsibility and that they are guilty of sin, but alcoholism just seems too much of a medicinal term.

01:26:52

And also very often people are told, it's not your fault, it's a sickness, you know, that kind of a thing, which

01:26:58

I totally disagree with. But you have people who have been drunkards, perhaps even for decades, who are now believers, partaking in the

01:27:08

Lord's Supper. Is it of your opinion that the amount of wine used at a celebration of the

01:27:16

Lord's Supper should not be feared by someone who has had an addiction to alcohol?

01:27:23

Or do you think that that is one reason why a church should at least provide both if they're going to have fermented wine, that they would also have grape juice?

01:27:34

What is your opinion on that? Sure, that's a great question, and it's in some sense a pastoral one.

01:27:40

I mean, how do we think about shepherding people within the body that have a variety of background issues and challenges?

01:27:50

Most succinctly, I would want to be sensitive to brothers or sisters who are coming out of a lifestyle of drunkenness.

01:28:00

I think ultimately, given that the Scripture speaks to the use of wine,

01:28:08

I don't want us to essentially set up in the

01:28:14

Lord's Supper what we set up simply to avoid the possibility of someone's past.

01:28:23

But yes, I mean, I think there's a sense in which if grape juice is offered, that may be beneficial. But I think the goal is ultimately for a person to be able to come to the

01:28:32

Lord's Supper and not be thinking about, well, if I take a small sip of wine, I'm going to be tempted.

01:28:38

I mean, I think part of sanctification is going to be for that person to be growing out of that to the point that when they come to the

01:28:46

Lord's Table, that's not forefront in their mind. And so I think that that's the goal. But I do understand the question, and I think it can be something that elders and pastors need to consider.

01:28:58

And on top of that, I'm assuming that you would believe, though, having said what you said, that there is not necessarily a strict mandate that we use fermented wine or grape juice, or that we use leavened bread or unleavened, that the fruit of the vine and bread need to be the elements.

01:29:24

For instance, the cult of Mormonism, they have water rather than any kind of fruit of the vine.

01:29:35

They don't have grape juice or wine. And of course, they have bigger problems than that, you know, as far as their heresies are concerned.

01:29:42

But for instance, if you are somewhere and you're gathered with a group of believers, and there is no fruit of the vine or bread available, and you want to have the

01:29:57

Lord's Table, would it not be inappropriate to use apples and, let's say, apples and corn, or actually, that would be two foods, apple juice and corn as the elements of the

01:30:17

Lord's Table? That would be wrong, wouldn't it, to substitute something beyond fruit of the vine and bread?

01:30:25

Yes, I think so. I remember teaching several years ago in a part of Eastern Africa, and I was teaching

01:30:30

Bible college students, and I was asked to teach a class on the Lord's Supper, and one of the students asked a question, and I asked them, what do you use in your churches?

01:30:42

And one student essentially said, potato chips and Pepsi. Really?

01:30:49

Yeah, and I realize in some parts of the world, based on poverty, you may not actually always have access to bread and fruit of the vine, but that is rare, and in this case, and in every case,

01:31:05

I would encourage you need to use bread and the fruit of the vine. So I think it's not, it is very inappropriate to use something besides bread and the fruit of the vine, and I think we could go further to say you can make an argument for a certain type of bread and a certain type of the fruit of the vine, but I think that's a lesser issue than the actual necessity of bread and wine or grape juice.

01:31:31

That's an in -house discussion. Yeah, yeah. Okay, we are going to our last break right now.

01:31:40

Before I go to the last break, I'm just going to read to you a question by Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

01:31:49

We have been getting a lot of listeners from North Carolina lately on Iron Trip and Zion. Grady from Asheboro, North Carolina says,

01:31:58

I've always taken the Lord's Supper very seriously because of Paul's words to the Corinthians, but I've always wondered why not also observe washing of feet as Christ did, as Christ did the disciples, did to the disciples,

01:32:15

I think what he meant to say, in the upper room. To me, this would lead to more servanthood and humility amongst believers.

01:32:24

You can answer that question when we return from our final break, and if anybody would like to join us on the air before we run out of time, do it now or forever hold your peace.

01:32:34

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:32:39

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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01:41:37

Ryan Davidson. We are discussing his book, A Covenant Feast, Reflections on the Lord's Table. And before the break,

01:41:44

Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, asked about foot -washing, why don't we do that as well as have the

01:41:51

Lord's Supper and as well as baptizing people? And there are denominations that, some of which we would agree with them on the vast majority of things that they believe and do, that do practice foot -washing.

01:42:05

They believe that it is a third ordinance, but what is your opinion on that? In short, it's a great question.

01:42:12

In short, I would say the church has two ordinances, or sacraments, baptism and the Lord's Supper, and that I think what we see in the gospel account of Jesus washing feet at the time shortly after the meal with the disciples is not a prescription for us to follow like the

01:42:32

Lord's Supper is, something that is prescribed, but it is a description. I mean, Jesus himself says that he has given us an example, and so in John 13, 15,

01:42:43

I'm giving you an example. An example is not the literal washing of feet necessarily, but the humility that he is our master washes our feet and lays down his life ultimately, and so we should do the same.

01:43:01

So I think when we observe the Lord's Supper, we are following the prescribed ordinance that he's given us in the

01:43:11

Supper, and that actually leads to kind of the final chapter of the book, which is entitled, How to Take the

01:43:16

Lord's Supper, and I kind of deal with 1 Corinthians 11 there, and that passage about discerning the body, what does that mean?

01:43:28

You know, and I unpack that and essentially come to the conclusion that discerning the body is understanding that the table is a visible word of Christ's gospel proclaimed, that the signs of bread and wine are not themselves the body in Christ, but they sign it for us, they signify it for us, and so to discern the body means that through these signs we go again in our minds and hearts and souls to the once -for -all finished sacrifice of Christ.

01:44:05

And you know, just if I may, just a quote or two. I really I end the book with the

01:44:12

Heidelberg Catechism, question 75, which is just really pastorally rich.

01:44:19

The section that I quote essentially is the answer, and it says that essentially when we come to the table, quote, we remember that Christ has commanded me and all believers to eat of this broken bread and to drink of this cup, and has joined therewith these promises.

01:44:37

First, that his body was offered and broken on the cross for me, and his blood was shed for me as certainly as I see with my eyes the bread of the

01:44:45

Lord broken for me and the cup communicated to me, and further, that with his crucified body and shed blood, he himself feeds and nourishes my soul to everlasting life, as certainly as I receive from the hand of the minister and taste with my mouth the bread and cup of the

01:45:03

Lord which are given me in certain tokens of the body and blood of Christ. And at grace, when we observe the

01:45:09

Lord's Supper, I'll regularly say that just as sure as the bread crosses our lips and the wine crosses our tongues, that's how sure that we can be as those who come in faith and repentance of sin of the promise of Christ.

01:45:28

And so the book kind of ends with, how do we think about, you know, coming to the

01:45:33

Lord's table? Do we just confess all of our sins as much as we can, or do we come in faith and repentance, looking to the finished sacrifice of Christ, which are signed for us in the elements that we partake?

01:45:52

It's interesting, I'll say this lastly, Calvin wrote a discussion of, how do we prepare, how do we examine ourselves for the

01:46:00

Lord's table? And this is what he said, he said, but now it is asked what sort of examination that ought to be which

01:46:07

Paul exhorts us. Papists, and he's referring there to Roman Catholics of course, papists make it consist in auricular confession.

01:46:15

They order all that are to receive the supper to examine their life carefully and anxiously, that they may unburden all their sins in the ear of the priest, such is their preparation.

01:46:25

I maintain, however, that this holy examination of which Paul speaks is widely different from torture.

01:46:31

Those persons, after having tortured themselves with reflection for a few hours and making the priest, such as he is, privy to their vileness, imagine that they have done their duty.

01:46:43

It is an examination of another sort that Paul here requires, and the examination that he's speaking of,

01:46:48

Calvin that is, is that we bring faith and the Lord's table. And we do have another listener question for you.

01:46:58

We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says that the

01:47:04

Bible warns that if we partake in the Lord's supper in an inappropriate manner, we may get sick and we may even die.

01:47:13

Is that something that we should fear today in the 21st century? And what is specifically involved in taking, partaking of the

01:47:21

Lord's supper in an inappropriate way? Well that's a good question. I mean, certainly it ought to cause us to have a proper fear of God, that the scripture is full of descriptions of the fear of God, the fear of the

01:47:35

Lord. I don't know that Paul is giving out that instruction in 1

01:47:42

Corinthians 11 in a way that we should regularly assume that if we don't get everything right, we're subjecting ourselves to the possibility of death, but rather that there is an urgency in our thinking that we need to consider how the weightiness of the cross of Christ, and that we ought to discern the body, that we don't come to the table in an unworthy manner, but we come to it with repentance of sin, yes, but with bold faith in the

01:48:15

Christ of the supper. And so it's a great question, and it's not one that I simply think we can just say, oh, that doesn't matter anymore.

01:48:25

But I think the intent is given to us to say, this is a serious meal, which is a meal of great benefit to the believer.

01:48:36

Well thank you, CJ. You and everybody else who's written in today has won a free copy of the book,

01:48:44

A Covenant Feast, Reflections on the Lord's Table, by our guest today, Pastor J.

01:48:49

Ryan Davidson. Well, I want you now for about four minutes, at least, to uninterrupted summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

01:49:05

Sure. What I would most want to say is that the

01:49:10

Lord's Supper is a means of grace that Christ has given his Church for their good.

01:49:17

That it is a precious meal that he gives them to be nourished in their faith, to know his spiritual presence among them, to hear with their ears, but to see with their eyes the

01:49:36

Word unfolded and his covenant promise to be our full and complete sacrifice.

01:49:44

And that if there's a sense in which their own lives are devoid of coming to the table, rather than going for other means, sort of extraordinary means, you know, blog posts,

01:49:57

Facebook posts, Christian books, the question ought be in the life of every believer, am

01:50:03

I coming to the ordinary means of grace that the Lord has ordained and that he has said that he will bless.

01:50:10

And those are preaching, baptism, the Lord's Supper, and prayer. It doesn't mean that we don't supplement our daily lives with other things, but we ought to see these as the primary things which he has ordained for us.

01:50:24

And I would also just say, you know, some of the listeners might be thinking, well, this is a

01:50:30

Baptist pastor, but he sure does sound like he's Presbyterian, or he's just quoting from John Calvin.

01:50:38

But I would encourage readers to know that, to the best of my understanding, what I'm presenting here is actually the early

01:50:45

Particular Baptists, at least many of them. I don't want to say all of them were, you know, monolithic, but the early

01:50:53

Particular Baptist expression, Stephen Weaver has a great academic journal article in the 2015 volume of the

01:51:02

Journal of the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies, where the article is entitled, Christ Spiritually Present, where he kind of unpacks various 1600s

01:51:11

Particular Baptists and their view of Christ being spiritually present in the Lord's Supper, and in the idea that it's a means of grace.

01:51:19

So this isn't a Presbyterian or Reformed -only thing. This is also a, in addition to being biblical,

01:51:26

I believe, this is a Baptist heritage thing as well. And so the last thing I'll say is, you know, my wife,

01:51:33

Christy, our four kids, our church at Grace, we've enjoyed the growth of the

01:51:40

Lord's Supper, and particularly my oldest son, if he's able to come to the table now as a precious to us, to grow in our understanding of what this meal offers the believer, and that we ought consider that, that it's a feast which

01:51:58

Christ gives to his covenant people. Amen. We have

01:52:03

RJ in White Plains, New York, and RJ in White Plains says,

01:52:12

When we are partaking of the Lord's Supper, we are to examine ourselves, as the

01:52:17

Bible teaches, which is why we do not let very, very young children have the

01:52:24

Lord's Supper. What does it exactly mean that we are to examine ourselves? Because after all, we are all guilty of some level of sin.

01:52:34

What are we to be looking for when examining ourselves, to know whether or not we are to partake of this very special and sacred meal?

01:52:43

Sure, and I'll try to summarize that quickly. In the last chapter of the book, I talk about what this means, to examine yourself.

01:52:50

And this is essentially, the summary is that right examination includes, in 1

01:52:57

Corinthians 11, it points to discerning of the body. What does it mean to discern the body? In the book,

01:53:03

I speak to that. It's succinctly, we come to the table more focused on Christ's accomplished sacrifice than on our unaccomplished sanctification.

01:53:13

So I encourage people in the book, if you know of sin, we corporately confess our sin before the preaching of the

01:53:20

Word and then the Lord's Table, but certainly if you're sitting there prior to taking the Lord's Supper, we should confess known sin that comes to mind.

01:53:28

But I think Paul sets up the discussion that examining ourselves is, are we going to Christ's finished sacrifice as we come to the table?

01:53:37

Or are we, A, holding back sin from repentance based on that sacrifice? Or B, are we not going to the

01:53:46

Gospel? Are we resting in something else? And I think that's what Paul means when he says examination. I don't think it's a,

01:53:53

I need to confess every single sin and I'm going to abstain from the table until I'm absolutely sure that I have nothing that's unconfessed.

01:54:02

If you know of something, confess it. But examination really is more about Christ and his Gospel and what

01:54:08

I do with my sin than my own ability to remember it. Well thank you

01:54:13

RJ and White Plains. You are also getting a free copy of the book we are discussing, A Covenant Feast Reflections on the

01:54:20

Lord's Table. Let's see here. When we are sitting in, oh

01:54:29

I forgot to mention the person's name. This is Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania. When we are sitting in a pew during a worship service and we know that the person next to us is an unbeliever and we know that unbelievers are not to share in this meal, which is solely for believers, what are we to do when we are passing the elements to them?

01:54:53

Should we say something to them or should we just rely upon the fact that this is upon their conscience before a holy

01:55:01

God? That's a great question that Arnie has and I'm assuming maybe he's in some kind of a particular role as either an elder or deacon or some churches use ushers if they're passing the table.

01:55:14

I mean, I think proper fencing of the table is important. I speak to only believers baptized in the

01:55:24

Trinitarian name coming to the table who are not under church discipline. I think there's a sense in which there needs to be a proper fencing of the table, but I would stop just short of calling a person out publicly in the room.

01:55:41

But certainly if Arnie or the pastors or elders of that church have anything to do with the administration of the

01:55:48

Lord's Supper, I think it's wise to spend some time admonishing people not to come to the table if they are not in Christ.

01:56:00

Thank you, Arnie. We have John in Bangor, Maine, who says, I have been at Reformed Baptist churches who will say that only baptized believers are to partake in the

01:56:13

Lord's Supper, and yet they seem to make an exception for Presbyterian brothers in Christ.

01:56:20

I don't understand how you could be consistent with that rule if you do not believe Presbyterians have indeed been baptized, even if they've claimed to be baptized.

01:56:34

Well, in short, I think it's a good question. Some churches I know will only permit their own members to come to the table.

01:56:43

Other churches, including Presbyterian churches, will will do interviews of individuals if they're visiting before the

01:56:50

Lord's Supper. Some churches will only permit baptized basis on the basis of profession of faith believers to come to the table.

01:57:02

Other churches will allow, even though they disagree with our

01:57:09

Presbyterian and other Pago -Baptist brothers on what baptism is, they will leave it to their conscience if they're a guest or a visitor to come to the table.

01:57:21

I mean, we seek at our church to talk about what the truth of baptism is, but at the same time understand that there may be times where visitors who are there in attendance hear the fencing of the table and believe they themselves meet that criteria, and we don't overly talk about the aspect of baptism.

01:57:45

And I understand the question. I think it is a good question. Is that a contradiction? So the core of the issue really is we want to try to understand the ordinances and get them right, and to be biblical about them.

01:57:58

So we've wrestled with that as a church as well. Well, we are now out of time.

01:58:04

I want to make sure that our listeners have all of the information that they need to have.

01:58:09

First of all, the church where our brother who is our guest today is the pastor, that church can be found at gracebaptistchapel .net.

01:58:23

That's gracebaptistchapel .net. And his book has been provided for us by our friends at Icthys Publishing, and we thank

01:58:37

Icthys Publishing for providing us with these copies of the book that we are giving away today.

01:58:45

And you can get all of the books published by Icthys Publishing by our sponsors,

01:58:52

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com, cvbbs .com.

01:58:59

And we hope that you do that often. But of course, you could also get these books from icthyspublications .com,

01:59:11

the website of the publisher, icthyspublications .com. I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who wrote in.

01:59:18

I want to thank you, my guest, Pastor J. Ryan Davidson, for being on today. I look forward to you returning as a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:59:27

I hope that you all have a blessed and safe and joyful and refreshing weekend and Lord's Day, and I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater