Take Aways From Francis Collins’s Example at the NIH

Hey, good afternoon everyone welcome to the conversations that matter podcast. I'm traveling right now.

I'm in Massachusetts for one day one day to See some beautiful fall scenery

It's probably the first Sort of break. I guess I don't know It's kind of a half break from a lot of the work

We've been doing on our home in New York trying to get it ready to move into so it's peak foliage right now and just Hopefully if you're following me on social media

I'll try to remember to take some pictures and post them so you all can see kind of what's going on and It's funny

I actually went into town this morning to get a toothbrush Because I that's just how it works, right?

Whenever you go away, even if it's for a night or two you forget your toothbrush at least I do There's always something

I forget and usually it's the toothbrush. So gotta go get a toothbrush and I walk into a

CVS and and Of course, I forget my wallet and I realize while I'm on the way and so I have to find a place

I've only done this twice in my life. I used Apple pay on my phone. And so I asked him you have Apple pay Yeah, they have

Apple pay and then the guy at the counter goes you're not from around here Are you I said no and he goes

I could tell with that accent and I thought I don't think I have much of an Accent, but there might be a slight southern.

I mean we were living four years in the south So maybe I picked up some of that and probably all the country music.

I listen to it It probably contributes a little bit or else. I don't know, but they have thick New England accents where I am right now and It's just it's

New England everywhere. So by the way, there's there's no better place to be Maybe Canada.

I haven't been to Canada in the fall, but New England fall And and in winter winter to some extent

Christmastime in New England, it's it's pretty incredible of course the places that still celebrate

Christmas because New England's pretty pagan and Unfortunately a lot of what used to be there isn't there anymore, but I do digress

I wanted to talk today a little bit about Francis Collins and just what was what has been

That now I guess it's been a few days that his the story of him leaving the National Institute of Health Has been talked about and examined and I came across an article that I thought was really good

In fact, I'm just gonna I'm gonna read it to you. First. I want to read for you a quote though This is from slate slate magazine 2009 so Francis Collins for those who don't know was the director of the

National Institute of Health under Obama under Trump and now to some extent under Biden and He's He's been trumpeted by a number of Evangelicals including whom we consider to be more conservative evangelicals as a very positive

Well his his being Nominated to the National Institute of Health and taking that position has been viewed as a very positive thing for evangelicals because look there's this very professional and accomplished person and evangelicals can still compete with the big boys and In science where you know, it's very hostile to Christianity and they can do very well for themselves and be very successful That's that's kind of the takeaway.

So, um There's been a lot of talk about what's kind of Why did he step down?

What do we make of this? And because the National Institute of Health is very corrupt.

In fact, I was reading some stories about it and I'll get to that in a minute. I don't want to keep interrupting myself

Let's read the slate comment that I wanted to read for you So this is the quote from slate in 2009 if Collins faith mollifies

Even a few political conservatives who would otherwise continue to waste time and money fighting research efforts that violate their specific religious tenets

Then the benefits of his faith should outweigh whatever qualms scientists might have now

I read this article from 2009 and it starts off with saying if there's a DNA There's a gene for being a

Boy Scout Francis Collins basically has it That's who we should look to to find that because he's accomplished.

He's a he's a good old boy. He's just really Well, not not a good not not Southerners are gonna hear that and think that's good old boy

Doesn't mean quite the same thing. He's he's a Boy Scout. He's a really clean -cut Just you can't find a flaw in this guy except maybe he's too good, right?

He's a little too religious, but his religion is is kind of acceptable. It's not He's not crazy.

I mean he believes in evolution He doesn't think that life starts at least he's dubious on whether or not life starts at conception

So he's kind of open to abortion. He's a lot like Obama. That's what the article said And so he's palatable to evangelicals.

He's palatable to the left the secular left to some extent because of his Science background.

So that's kind of the point. That's that's how Francis Collins when he got into the position, that's how a lot of people viewed him

Of course, there were some secularists who still didn't like him because he's a Christian Or claims to be but the fact is, you know, that's that's who he is and that's how most people viewed him now now that Francis Collins is out.

The National Institute of Health is is corrupt I I was reading some stories this morning even the last two years or last year you had what 50 scientists resign

Last year amid I mean in the National Institute of Health was investigating some of this But how did it get this far with foreign governments, especially

China being involved in paying people? doctors scientists in the

National Institute of Health to conduct Experiments and do research and stuff and you know where that research is going there's in in the

For years, but really with the kovat stuff. This has really been amplified the

National Institute of Health has Has been essentially making a lot of money every time this situation right now, they're making a lot of money because not only are they the ones that are involved in Doing some of the development for quote -unquote vaccines and treatments

But they are the ones issuing the licenses for these things So they're making money off of it and then with private companies who want to use this technology

National Institute of Health is licensing it. In fact, you can go back 20 years and there's articles that talk about Fauci when he was working for a

Well, he was working under the National Institute of Health for a different organization under them But basically he was doing the same kind of thing.

And so it's a corrupt Scheme that basically gives the National Institute of Health a lot of money and they already have billions and billions and billions so Anyways, the point of this video isn't to go into the corruption

But I just want to let you know if you go to DuckDuckGo type in National Institute of Health corruption You're gonna find a lot of stuff there

So this is the organization Francis Collins the Boy Scout right the evangelical Christian is resigning from now

Look, here's the thing. I was thinking of Daniel with this, right? Daniel we could say was in a an evil regime working in in that but Daniel was

Uncompromising, right? And so I think there's a place for Christians who are uncompromising to be in positions of authority in Places where there's a lot of evil going on, but they have to take a stand against that evil, right?

That's kind of the key thing. You can't just be okay with it when you have the power to do something about it and when you

When it's especially if it's in your purview if you have the responsibility to oversee something Then and you and you don't and you kind of look the other way or you become part of the corruption then that's where I think things get very wrong and and so That's that's part of this and look

I if you're powerless to do anything if it's not in your purview if it's not Something you're directly responsible for we can talk about that.

There's not necessarily maybe a sin involved there But if but if look if you're the director of the National Institute of Health and foreign governments are somehow on like almost a systemic level getting involved in funding some of the

Scientists who are doing research if you're paying yourself all this money to do development of treatments and so forth and making money every time there's

There's a need for some kind of a treatment like the current situation. We're in and there's ties even to a certain laboratory and Gain of function research and these kinds of things you got to start scratching your head

You got to start saying, you know, I don't think this is just ignorance. I don't think this is just someone who's kind of passively and just ignorantly

Doing the best that they can in their position, but you know, everyone around them is corrupt You know, you kind of have some responsibility when you're the director

Alright, so let me read the article that I want to read for you. This is from Nate Fisher who?

Writes for the American Reformer and I thought this was just a really good article and in the question that's coming up This is the question.

I want everyone to think about Are there certain industries that Christians should not be involved in are there certain positions certain jobs

Christians just you know What I can't take that job. It's too it's compromising.

Even if I just say yes to take the job and Does that mean that we were pushed out of the coveted influential positions because of our convictions as Christians?

That's a question and I think it's a question We really got to grapple with we really need to be able to think through an answer because it used to be that you could

Pretty much do just about anything In the United States anything that was legal Christians could be involved in that and I just don't think that's the case anymore

Here's the article on Tuesday Francis Collins announced He is resigning from the National Institute of Health Collins has long been celebrated by evangelical influencers and upon his departure

Those praising him included Russell Moore Tim Keller and David French, by the way I'll stop here.

If you go to woke preacher clips they have a Clip of Rick Warren praising Francis Collins because they met when they were both speaking at the

World Economic Forum in Davos I kid you not this is from like 2009 and Rick Warren just praising

Francis Collins he's not partisan, which is I mean, this is what these guys covet is the being known as Accomplished in the world not partisan balanced, you know third way type stuff

But still hanging on to some kind of a Christian leadership position And so I mean

Francis Collins is like the poster child for this. So, all right, let's keep going the well -credentialed Evangelicals who populate urban churches like Keller's have been taught to aspire to a faithful presence and elite

Institutions and Collins is often viewed as epitomizing this he succeeded not just at an elite level

But in a scientific world a domain where Christians have particularly hard time gaining respect

Yet Collins record over his 12 years atop the NIH shows serious and repeated moral compromises

That he continues to be praised as a model of elite adjacent evangelicals Suggests that what matters is the presence in elite circles far more than faithfulness to any clear

Christian moral standard Bingo that line right there. That's exactly true.

What do these people value? What do the elite evangelicals the social justice evangelicals? What do they value?

What is important to them being a presence being part of the group being part of the in crowd?

Having a seat at the table. It's not really about having a being taking moral stands that are

That are actually costly it's about still being a Christian but also being part of the in crowd

Let's keep going Collins's most troubling action was his explicit defense in 2018 of research using fetal tissue from aborted babies and the

NIH is 2021 resumption of such research under his leadership after a 2019 moratorium

This August documents were released revealing that under his watch the NIH had given at least 2 .7

million to researchers who sought out aborted babies with a high quota of minorities to harvest their organs and Elite adjacent evangelicals have departed from traditionally, by the way,

I'm gonna stop right there If you really care right about black lives if this is something that really is important to you

You really mean what you what you say, you know, you is in your heart about BLM and all that You would be going after Francis Collins he would be on the hit list.

He's not he's on the the list of people who are Rewarded. I'm just saying just saying these social justice advocates are the biggest hypocrites in the world

As the lead adjacent evangelicals have departed from traditionally conservative positions on many political and cultural issues notably those related to race and deemed and De -emphasized others involving sexuality abortion has remained the one they have typically taken a purist stand on Even when they downplayed legal prohibition most emphasized strong personal opposition to abortion typically including derivatives like embryonic stem cell research

Thus Collins's actions on this issue reflect a direct betrayal on one issue

Christians in these elite circles Can point to where they retain a distinctively Christian ethical position. He's absolutely right

Collins broke the cardinal rule. You're not supposed to be pro -choice or pro -abortion or anything in under that umbrella

But Collins is still praised given Collins's compromise on abortion. It's unsurprising. He also followed secular trends on sexuality here

He did not just preside over institutional actions, but personally embraced the language of the sexual left in a

June 2021 letter Collins wrote that the NIH joins in celebrating Pride Month and recognizing the struggle stories and victories of those who are lesbian gay

Bisexual transgender queer intersex and others under the sexual and gender minority umbrella I applaud the courage and resilience it takes for individuals to live openly on authentically.

Let's stop there that word authentically That's a weasel world word that we hear today a lot. Well, as long as they're being an authentic you know what sinners can be pretty authentic and it's pretty wrong and For Francis Collins to do this.

He's praising the I mean, it's so open -ended But what kind of victories is he talking about?

What kind of achievements? What kind of barriers being broken? He's talking about the Obergefell decision. He's talking about the

Permissions to do pride marches and things like this. I mean at the very least

It's hard to see Nate Fisher continues how a faithful Christian can personally write this that evangelical Influencers continue to praise

Collins as he committed these actions suggest there are few compromises with the establishment They would not tolerate for the sake of worldly status

Collins's failure and the way they were often overlooked by prominent Christians reveal Broader flaws in the approach such people have taken to elite careers and cultural influence this approach reflected in James Davidson hunters 2010 book to change the world and Keller's 2012 book every good endeavor tends to celebrate prestigious careers while discouraging conflict over moral and cultural issues

This presence at elite levels was often portrayed as allowing Christians to do more to exert real influence in these circles and institutions

And the more provocative approaches evangelicals have been known for yet more recent assessments suggest that Christians influence

Christian influence this approach was supposed to manifest has not been realized Okay, so he's saying look this is the whole strategy the whole thing

Tim Keller and all these guys are trying to do Russell Moore is Like we're gonna subversively come in. We're gonna go to these elite

Sections these elite powerful circles We're gonna infiltrate them and then people are gonna want to become Christians because they're gonna want to look at us and they're gonna

Say man, I like that guy. That guy's a Boy Scout. He's a clean -cut. Look how good his life is

Look at how accomplished he is. I mean, he's just got it all We're you know, we like him his personality the force of his personality

Will become Christians and that's how we're gonna influence and Nate Fisher saying. Yeah, did that work out? Didn't work

Timothy doll ripple the publisher of Christianity Today wrote a piece Describing these urban church

Christians as more likely to live on the margins of power than those who took older Evangelical approaches to politics and influence he followed up by nothing that Despite there by noting that despite their often elite careers and status these

Christians lack political and cultural influence Cultural trends, especially in the circles in which these Christians live and work suggests doll ripple is correct

Collins spent decades participating in evangelical conversations about faith and influence and reached the pinnacle of his field that even with such power

He bent to secular morality instead of bending the NIH to Christian morality reflects the elite adjacent evangelical culture where theoretical influence is celebrated

But accommodation to secular demands becomes the norm this reflects the emphasis of the faithful presence narrative popular among such

Christians discussions typically focus on the elite presence but place little emphasis on the actual use of power in such roles and Offered few clear lines for the limits of acceptable compromises while this accommodation has helped achieve the desired status in elite circles

It has not conveyed the Christian influence that was often described as its ultimate purpose Mission drift, this is called mission drift so you have a purpose but you get derailed and the new purpose is the means by which you were going to accomplish the purpose so You know

You were gonna drive to the store to pick up something right and the means to get there is you're in your car You're driving you're on the road

But suddenly the purpose in your mind becomes being on the road in your car and that's that's you're just taking a drive, right?

That that's what we're talking about here The means by which to accomplish this influence became the purpose altogether in Collins's case

I'm continuing with what Nate Fisher said here The result was actually grimmer than simple failure to achieve impact as head of the

NIH Collins played a role in institutional actions including funding fetal organ harvesting Through a career celebrated as a shining example of faithful presence.

He became an active participant in a grotesque evil It is clear Christians need more robust models for how to address politics and culture and how to use power

This is part of American reformers mission But for Christians who do not embrace doctrines that actually prepare them to fight against evils in the institutions they help lead

Perhaps it's better for the sake of their souls They did that they do not even venture in to these institutions

Nate Fisher American reformer excellent article and a hundred percent true That's exactly what we need to be thinking about now

Having a personal relationship with Jesus or saying that you do at least saying that you signed a card whatever the case may be

Isn't enough to to be in these highly compromised environments You got to have a backbone of steel and you'll probably be fired pretty quickly into it

If you actually retain some of your Christian convict convictions in some of these circles I'm not saying they've all they're all gone

But a lot of them are a lot of you to the higher levels. It is very difficult And so if you do not have that backbone of steel if you're not a

Daniel better don't even go there. No, no your limitations That's what what Clint Eastwood always say that right a man's got to know his limitations

I don't even know where he said that but I just for some reason in my mind just Had a vision of Clint Eastwood saying a man's got to know his limitations, but it's true for Christians right now

We've got to know our limitations and how strong we are. I mean if you have a weakness for money and power

That's that's strong enough to make you compromise your convictions don't don't get into these fields Or don't go as high up on the ladder that you know

And and look I think I hope and think there are Christians who are willing to take stands and are willing to take

Personal risks we need that we need Christians who are willing to do that In fact, I was just thinking recently about you know, politics is such a dirty game who wants to be in it

But we need Christians in it So especially on the local level if you're a Christian you say I don't like politics You're probably one of the people that most needs to be involved in it

But the higher you go the more compromise things can get and Francis Collins is an example of this

Let him be an example to all of us he got to a certain level and There was a lot of compromise going on at the very least a lot of moral compromise

What use is it to be an evangelical? What use is it to be a Christian if you're not going to behave like one?

so I wanted to just throw that out there something to chew on something to think about and to to consider whether or not there are some places where Christians should not be involved or if they are of a certain temperament or certain level of strength, maybe they shouldn't be involved and and and and then also just to ponder whether or not the

Primary way that evangelicals are quote -unquote engaging culture is actually the right way or the biblical way to do it