April 20, 2021 Show with Dr. William Webster & Rev. David T. King on “No Infallible Interpreter for Rome’s Infallible Interpreter”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on

the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this

20th day of April 2021.

And I am so thrilled to have two of my dearest friends on the program today,

yet today, so excited that I can't even speak.

And I'm not using hyperbole or exaggeration.

These two dear men and dear friends and dear brothers are those kinds of

friends who would be among the very first you call when something tragic happens in your life

or when something incredibly joyful happens.

And I'm speaking of my dear friends, Dr. William Webster and Reverend David T. King.

Dr. William Webster is pastor of Grace Bible Church in Battleground, Washington.

He's an author with Banner of Truth and other publishers.

He is a conference speaker and founder of Christian Resources.

It's my honor and privilege, first of all, to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Bill Webster.

Thank you.

And also joining us, our mutually very dear longtime friend,

Reverend David T. King, who is an ordained minister, having served in the Presbyterian

Church in America and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

He's a co -author with Dr. William Webster of the three -volume work, Holy Scripture, the Ground

and Pillar of Our Faith.

And he currently is the assistant to the pastor at Christ Church of

Katie, Texas, which is a congregation in the Presbyterian Church in America.

Today, both Bill and David will be addressing Rome's dilemma.

No infallible interpreter for their own alleged infallible interpreter.

Why.

Rome's claims to being impervious to the dangers of private interpretation are false,

hypocritical, and unattainable.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to the program as well, David T. King.

Thanks, Chris.

And Bill, why don't you start with a little brief description of Grace Bible Church of

Battleground, Washington.

Well, we are an evangelical

congregation, 89 London Baptist.

We're committed to the authority of

Scripture, the affirmation of

the God, and that

they understand how to walk the

central way with the lives of our

commitment.

And if

anybody either lives near Battleground, Washington, plans to visit there,.

Or has family, friends, and loved ones near or in Battleground, Washington, and you'd like to find out more about

Grace Bible Church, go to gracebiblebattleground .org.

Gracebiblebattleground .org.

And now, tell us something about Christian Resources.

Christian Resources comes out

of my understanding of biblical truth, to

understand the authority.

It's a great deal coming

out of my own experience.

Now a committed evangelical, teaching the

Scripture that is

devoted with that ultimate

end

in

the evangelical church, are

related to the affirmation of

the Scripture.

Wow, that surprises me, that last statement.

I thought that the evangelical church at large was just fine and dandy, exactly the way it is.

Not hardly.

Obviously, you know me long enough to know that I was just being sarcastic.

And David, please tell us something about Christ Church of Katy, Texas.

Yes, we're a PCA congregation.

It's a passion for the gospel.

Both Bill and myself, to come together

and

for the...

And if anybody wants to find out more about Christ Church of Katy, Texas, go

to cckpca .org,

cckpca .org.

And I believe I forgot to announce the website for Christian

Resources, the ministry of our other guest, Bill Webster,

christiantruth .com, christiantruth .com.

And there's a phenomenal bookstore available to you on that website as well.

Let me return to you for a moment, David.

What is it about Roman Catholicism that drew you

to really do very deep research into Rome's claims,

into Rome's actual history, their actual belief

system and dogma as set forth in the Council of Trent and other councils?

What is it that compelled you to really do more in -depth

investigation and research into this one area?

And of course, when I say one area, I mean one church.

There's many, many facets of Roman Catholicism.

But what drove you to study this so deeply and become basically

an apologist defending Reformation principles, teachings, and

doctrines?

Also,

it's

amazing.

You find that after having listened to so many Roman apologists that you will really...

Yes, it is quite amazing, the claims that they make.

And as you know, having been someone myself raised in the Roman Catholic Church

and having been an altar boy and educated in a Roman Catholic

parochial grammar school for eight years and having come to

salvation in Christ and the true gospel in the 1980s when I was in my mid -20s,

it was surely an eye -opener.

I believe I learned more about Roman Catholicism after becoming a Reformed Baptist than I

knew as a Roman Catholic.

But having been a part of live public moderated

debates that I have arranged and orchestrated for the last

nearly 30 years, I have seen quite and heard quite a

number of outlandish claims by Roman Catholic apologists,

some of which are mind -boggling.

Today we are going to be addressing, let me repeat our theme, Rome's Dilemma, No Infallible

Interpreter for Their Own Alleged Infallible Interpreter.

Why Rome's Claims to Being Impervious to the Dangers of Private Interpretation are False, Hypocritical,

and Unattainable.

And Bill Webster, this seems to be the key

reason that I hear that Roman Catholics

claim to have a far superior religion than that of anyone

else who claims to be a Christian.

That is that they have an infallible interpreter.

They have an infallible magisterium.

And when you do not have that, you are

basically left to your own devices and Roman Catholics will

very frequently, routinely make a caricature of the Reformation

principle of sola scriptura.

And they will make a caricature of we who are heirs of the Reformation, those of us who

are evangelicals, Protestants, Calvinists, etc.

They will make a caricature of us as basically being our own popes, each person being their

own pope, where we are sitting alone with our Bibles and privately

interpreting the scriptures.

And that is what leads to the many divisions in

Protestantism, the many denominations, and as one Roman Catholic

apologist put it, or more than one, but one who coined the phrase, that sola

scriptura is a blueprint to anarchy.

Now, as the theme of our show suggests, Bill,

they really, it's really, to a degree, it's

laughable that they would be pointing the fingers at Protestants,

saying that we are perpetuating a blueprint for anarchy.

And they claim that this infallible magisterium that they possess, so -called,

is keeping them free from the multitudes of

divisions and splits and sects and so on because of private

interpretation.

And yet, all my life, being a Catholic and a Protestant, I have seen

the Roman Catholic Church being represented by a very

wide spectrum of theological, philosophical,

doctrinal, practical, and worldview issues that even

far outrange, far surpass in the

breadth and width of difference than you would find in conservative

evangelical churches.

If you could pick up where I left off there.

Oh, you're doing great.

And in particular, Pachycex

Cathedra, back in the

16th century, which is the official

Roman Catholic answer to the Reformation, one of the basic principles

that is enunciated by Trent, they

believe, has been given by the

Roman Church.

It's because

you have

a claim in 1571 to

be the

ultimate

authority.

Between

Rome and you

involved in this

process,

and you're

taught,

it's not enough

simply

as part of the authority

structure.

Scripture is not the ultimate authority, and scripture is not slot materially.

Handed

down from the

alterative, which

they

still amnation,

and Vatican

I, the Roman

Catholic

Church, unanimous,

unlawful, unanimous consent.

That is a test.

If that

authority has

embraced

all, you can

go back

and following to the,

have you not read when he was constantly dealing

with

false to make sure it was compelling.

Written word of God is the ultimate authority over the church.

Everything

to them and give them the ability to understand the

necessary truths of salvation.

To be an infallible interpreter.

This claim by scripture, it cannot be supported by

the written.

Now you just mentioned the patristic era.

That is the very reason that the support of the patristic era

for sola scriptura before the Reformation, centuries before the Reformation even

occurred.

That it was the catalyst behind the three volume, 900 page

monumental work that you coauthored with our guest today, David King.

Holy scripture, the ground and pillar of our faith, is it not?

It is.

In

fact,

it's hard time by

the will of God.

They handed down their apostolic teaching in the

ground and pillar unanimous

concern

about the

firm by Roman

Catholic word of God.

Reformation is in that print.

And we have to go to our first break when we return, David, I'd like you to define what Rome

says it means by papal infallibility.

Obviously, there are many errors made both among Roman Catholics themselves,

especially those who are your average layman.

I did not understand what that meant until I became a Protestant.

And of course, you may have many Protestants who misunderstand.

We don't want to be guilty of the same slander and caricaturing that is frequent amongst Roman

Catholic apologists.

So we'll have you actually clear up what Rome is actually saying when they claim

to believe in papal infallibility.

And if anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain

anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Bill Webster and David King with more of Rome's Dilemma.

No infallible interpreter for their own alleged infallible interpreter after these messages

from our sponsors.

Hello, dear ones.

My name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and

I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the United States.

We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday,

September 30th through Saturday, October the 2nd on the theme, Christ is

supreme over all.

I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Vody

Balcom, Joel Beakey, and James White.

For details, visit G3conference .com.

That's G, the number three, conference .com.

Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October the 2nd at G3

2021.

This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

Do you know what they all have in common?

They all require training, assessments, and certifications.

But do you know what requires no training at all?

Becoming a parent.

My name is A .M. Brewster.

I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent and host of its award -winning podcast.

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s.

And what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in

their homes.

That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists.

We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be.

We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of

dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

Please visit us at TruthLoveParent .com.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm author Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Dan LeBennick of West Hills Baptist Church in Huntington Station, New York, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Reverend Buzz Taylor, author of God's Lawson, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Dr. William Webster, pastor of Grace Bible Church in Battleground, Washington, founder

of the ministry Christian Resources, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Ryan Galan of Central Islet Community Church in Central Islet, New York, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Brandon Smith of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Jackson, Georgia, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnzen is doing is

Daniel P. Buttafuoco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society.

Their mission?

To foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God.

They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare

collection of biblical texts, along with a fascinating presentation by Mr. Buttafuoco

demonstrating the reliability of scripture.

To advance the cause of the gospel, they created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the

genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition

1611 King James Bible.

This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ

going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of

Babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims

to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the

public in a large book form before.

You can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35

or more.

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org.

That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

We are excited to announce another new member of the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family.

Banu Gadi, owner of three New York pharmacies, Lee's Drugs of Floral Park, Long

Beach Chemists and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead.

Banu Gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus

pandemic.

Please contact Dr. Gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the

contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media.

To find the pharmacy nearest you, call 516 -354 -2000.

That's 516 -354 -2000.

Or order online at leesdrugsrx .com.

That's L -E -E -S -drugsrx .com.

Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program.

Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

My name is Banu Gadi.

I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through.

In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this.

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows

very well.

He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness and the beauty in what God has designed

and he has erupted into praise.

In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust God's

design.

And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to

address this illness, which can be very serious.

Such is the beauty of his design.

Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great God like the psalmist did?

May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

Thank you.

Oh, my name is Anthony Uvino and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corum, New York, and

also the host of the reformrookie .com website.

I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in the search bar.

You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.

Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show at any time, day or night.

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many

solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.

Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now.

And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com podcast and visit our website and the YouTube

page.

We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as

well as seasoned believers.

From Keach's Catechism and the Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform

Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.

And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession

of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, New York.

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avino, and thanks for listening.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in.

Our guests today are authors William Webster and David T. King,

and we are discussing Rome's Dilemma, No Infallible Interpreter for Their

Own Alleged Infallible Interpreter, Why Rome's Claims to Being Impervious to the Dangers of Private Interpretation

are False, Hypocritical, and Unattainable.

And before the break, David, you may recall that I asked you to give Rome's definition of

papal infallibility because there are lots of misunderstandings about what that means.

I'm sure there are many Catholics and Protestants who both think that means the Pope can never sin,

that the Pope never speaks falsely, never makes errors when he

speaks, but the more learned Catholic, the more trained apologist will be quick to point out that is

not what Rome believes.

In fact, I think it's been comically ironic that many

Catholic apologists have said, oh, part of the beauty of the Roman Catholic

Church is that in spite of the many wicked and evil and

horrible popes that have existed throughout history, God has still preserved his one true

church, and that the magisterium and the popes have never

infallibly and dogmatically declared something that was false.

So that seems to be how they get around that reality that

their history is littered with popes that were false teachers and horrible, grotesque

human beings.

But anyway, if you could, give us Rome's definition of papal infallibility.

Sure, and it's of the

Roman community.

Papal

infallibility

is only the

defined doctrine to be embraced.

You know, when the

Pope does

define the

dogma, it's only the dogma that he defines, and

not

necessarily the dogma itself.

Support the defining of a particular dogma, or not them.

You know, some have even said that the support of a

particular dogma could later, but not the

dogma itself.

Matters are used to define the dogma.

Only the dogma.

Now, Bill, one of the reasons I'm sure you would agree why it is

nonsensical and hypocritical for Catholics to

accuse Protestants of basically

perpetuating anarchy in the church because of our refusal

to bow the knee to the papacy and our refusal to believe

in papal infallibility and to strictly

be guided by the Reformation principle of sola scriptura, that the scripture alone is our

infallible authority over the church.

It is ridiculous that they make this claim that we are the architects

of chaos when it is palpably provable that

even if you want to grant them the papal infallibility dogma,

if you want to grant them, which we are not going to do, but even if you did grant them that this

is a genuine gift to the Roman Catholic church by God, they

hardly ever use it.

Am I right?

I mean, how has this prevented all kinds, myriads of

insane and heretical things that even conservative Catholics are abhorred by?

I mean, it's interesting how you hardly ever hear most of the conservative Catholic apologists that you

and I know, that all three of us know very well, you hardly ever hear them bringing up Pope Francis these

days.

They probably feel like they want to crawl under a rock every time his name is mentioned because he is so far to

the left of mainstream conservative Catholic apologetics.

But isn't this bill nonsensical that they would dare say that we are the architects of chaos just

because we don't adhere to papal infallibility?

If you think

about it, not by

scripture

alone, this

claim is made all throughout the book, that

look at

all

the

dishonesty

and greatest

poverty, and

yet the

greater,

if you will,

utterment, if you read the words of the council, it's

Satan to disseminate for the entire church.

Time, Leo,

but the

church has never believed until, and I mean, the Eastern

church today, along with the Protestant church, to

be a revelation of God.

It is not a revelation of God.

It is contrary to the word of God.

It is a dogma to be necessary for salvation.

This was never a

teaching question of unanimous

consent.

Some declarations have always been the very beginning.

The interpretation given to

Matthew 16

is

no

infallible interpretation of scripture.

You have a handful of verses.

Matthew 16, 18, surely is one of them.

Luke 22, 30, even Roman Catholic

history, very

few claims

that it's

made.

And anytime a Roman Catholic scripture, they're using

private interpretation because they do not

know, they do

not know

that that's true.

Have you ever heard a Roman Catholic apologist attempt to

explain why that is, that there have not been officially

declared ex cathedra interpretations of verses

of the scripture when they have this great benefit that they think

only they solely possess of having this infallible interpreter, and yet he never uses

this gift.

So what is their explanation behind that?

Well, hardly ever.

If you can look at certain papal declarations, it is

absolutely necessary.

1302, it is necessary because that is an

ex cathedra statement.

If you look at the teaching on the assumption, papal declaration,

declaration of the dogma, all they're doing is giving you a dogma

finding.

You could eliminate all that ever existed in the

history of the church by the fishermen.

And we're going to go to our midway break right now.

Please be patient with us, folks.

It's the longer than normal break in the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of

us a longer break in the middle of the show because the SEC requires of them to localize

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and all of their other programming geographically to Lake City, Florida.

And they do so by airing their own public service announcements and other local announcements and things.

And while they do that, simultaneously, we are airing our globally heard commercials.

So please use this time wisely.

Write down as much of the information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you possibly can so that you can

more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.

Hopefully, often, that will mean patronizing them, purchasing their products,

using their services, visiting their churches, supporting their parachurch organizations.

But when you cannot do any of those things, please, at the very least, use their contact information

that they provide in their ads to contact them and thank them for sponsoring Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If, indeed, you are thankful and grateful that they are doing that, if you love this show

and you don't want it to disappear, thank our advertisers.

That should go a long way to keep them happy because we need our advertisers to exist.

The finances they provide are indispensable.

We require them to remain on the air.

So please respond to our advertisers as often as you can.

And also write down questions and send them in to our guest today, Dr. William Webster and

Reverend David T. King, as we continue our discussion, Rome's Dilemma, No Infallible

Interpreter for Their Own Alleged Infallible Interpreter.

Don't go away.

God willing, we'll be right back after these messages.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

My friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once

again for the G3 Conference.

This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme,

Christ is Supreme Over All.

I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and

singing, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and

Virgil Walker.

For details, visit G3conference .com.

That's G3conference .com.

Chris Arnson and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G321.

This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World

Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try World Now at no charge for 90 days by going to getworldnow

.com.

That's getworldnow .com.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting.

I gain insight from the analysis, and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a

depth that's simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes biweekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio, and the fully

shareable content of World Digital.

There's no obligation and no credit card required.

Visit getworldnow .com today.

Also, check out World News Group's podcast, The World and Everything in It, at

wng .org forward slash podcast.

That's W for World, N for News, G for Group, dot org forward

slash podcast.

When

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American.

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, president and professor of systematic and homiletical theology at Greenville

Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Chuck White of the First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmerville, Long Island, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in Southlake, Texas, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus, reading, preaching, and

hearing the word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.

Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy,

and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at

gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com, or

call them at 908 -996 -7654.

That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Radio.

We are excited to announce another new member of the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family,

Bhanu Gadi, owner of three New York pharmacies, Lee's Drugs of Floral Park, Long

Beach Chemists, and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead.

Bhanu Gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus

pandemic.

Please contact Dr. Gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the

contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media.

To find the pharmacy nearest you, call 516 -354 -2000.

That's 516 -354 -2000, or order online at

leesdrugsrx .com.

That's l -e -e -s -drugsrx .com.

Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

Daniel P. Patafuoco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society.

Their mission?

To foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God.

They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare

collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr. Patafuoco

demonstrating the reliability of scripture.

To advance the cause of the gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the

genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition

1611 King James Bible.

This 17th century hand -engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ

going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of

Babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his

claims to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the

public in a large book form before.

You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35

or more.

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org.

That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love, Hope

Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher

McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church

in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into

the unfathomable riches of Christ in his Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and

beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing

of being showered by their love as I have.

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net or

call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa

on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron.

And please, folks, never forget how important solid -ground -books .com is to Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

They are a primary, a premier, a vital sponsor of this program.

If they were to cease advertising with us, we likely would not be able to remain on the air due to lack of

funding, barring a financial miracle of God, of course.

But I am urging you, therefore, to please visit solid -ground

-books .com frequently and purchase from them generously.

And every time you purchase from them, mention that you heard about them from chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And remember, folks, you're not only going to be doing solid -ground -books .com a favor by purchasing

books from them, and you're not only going to be doing us here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio a favor by making one of our advertisers

very happy, you're going to be doing yourself and anyone for whom you are purchasing a gift from

solid -ground -books .com an enormous favor, an incalculable favor, because they

publish and bring back into print nothing but the finest in Christian literature from the past

and from the present.

Not only books from centuries ago, going all the way back to the Reformation, but even contemporary

books by such living authors as Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

That's solid -ground -books .com, solid -ground -books .com.

Always tell them that you heard about them from Chris Arnson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Before we return to our guest today, William Webster and David T. King, as we continue our discussion

on Rome's Dilemma, No Infallible Interpreter for Their Own Alleged Infallible Interpreter,

we just have a couple of important announcements to make.

You've been hearing the G3 conference ads every day, promoting the conference where I will be

manning an exhibitor's booth once again for the fourth year in a row, promoting Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Well, you've been hearing in some of the ads, when they list different speakers among the

20, over 20, that will be present, you've been hearing Vody Balkan's name mentioned.

Now that is to be heard with a question mark after it, because Vody Balkan has

suffered a serious health setback not long ago, which required quadruple

bypass surgery.

So he is recovering now, and everything seems to be going well, according to my last update that I

received.

But it is uncertain whether he will be healthy and strong enough and have the energy

by the time September 30th rolls around for him to be featured on the roster.

He may be, but we just can't guarantee it.

But please pray for Vody Balkan, please pray for his health, please pray that the great physician,

Jesus Christ, restores him to full health and strength and vitality and energy,

and that his family is spared a great loss by losing him.

Please pray that that does not occur.

And also pray that the Church of Jesus Christ doesn't have to suffer a great loss by losing him at

this young age either.

He has been such a blessing to the body of Christ.

So please pray for Vody Balkan.

Also, continue to pray for my oldest brother, John, who is 76, in

a hospital right now in Justin, Texas, or in that area.

He has cancer, he has an aneurysm that has grown, and

he has critical stage emphysema.

Right now he is undergoing a blood transfusion.

He also contracted pneumonia on top of everything.

He was rushed to the hospital on Sunday, I believe it was.

So please keep him in prayer and especially pray for his salvation.

Also, folks, I want to give you the great news that Vody Balkan's

colleague at African Christian University, who is also Vody Balkan's pastor, Conrad

Mbewe, pastor of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and

faculty member for African Christian University, Dr. Conrad Mbewe will be my guest again

this Friday, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

So mark your calendars for that.

It's always a great joy for me to have Dr. Mbewe on the program.

He's been my dear friend since 1995 when I was there sitting in a pew at Grace Reformed

Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York, where I was a member before relocating to

Pennsylvania.

And that was the very first church in the United States where Conrad Mbewe preached.

So we've been friends ever since in 1995.

But please mark your calendars for that interview.

I'm looking forward to it.

Also, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to be dropped from the airwaves due

to lack of financial support, please go to IronTripandZionRadio .com, click support, then

click, click to donate now.

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing so.

If you prefer snail mail, an address will appear on your screen, a physical address where you can mail checks

made payable to IronTripandZionRadio .com.

And also, if you prefer to advertise, as long as whatever it is you're

promoting is compatible with what we believe, send me an email to ChrisArnsin at gmail .com and put advertising in the

subject line.

I certainly do need your advertising dollars as well as long as you're promoting something that is at the very least

compatible with what I believe.

Also, folks, please remember, I never want my listeners siphoning money away from their regular giving that they're accustomed

to to their own local church where they are a member in order to give to IronTripandZionRadio.

Please never do that.

In other words, don't punish your church financially by blessing us financially.

Also, please don't put your family in further financial peril and jeopardy if you are really struggling to survive

and make ends meet.

Those two things are commands of God and scripture, providing for your church and providing for your

family.

Providing for my radio show is not a command of God and scripture, but if you love the show and you are blessed above and

beyond your ability to obey those two commands, providing for church and family, then please

use some of the extra money that is collecting interest, some of the extra money that you use for recreation and trivial

purposes.

Please use some of that money to help us remain on the air if indeed you love the show.

Go to IronTripandZionRadio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

Also, remember, folks, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, I may be able to help you find a church no matter

where on the planet Earth you live.

Just before the show started, I referred a listener to a church in Detroit, Michigan.

And wherever you live on the globe, I may be able to help you find a church.

I have extensive lists spanning the globe, and I have helped many people in our audience from all over

the world find churches, sometimes within minutes from where they live, that they didn't even know existed or they didn't know that these

churches that they saw routinely driving by them were biblically faithful churches.

So send me an email if you are in that category of being in need of a church.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

And put, I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today, William Webster and David T.

King on Rome's Dilemma, No Infallible Interpreter for Their Own Alleged Infallible Interpreter.

And brothers, did we close a point when we went to the break, or is there

something left hanging that we need to finish?

About Rome's Alleged Infallible Holy Scripture,

I'm thinking of J

.D. Thirt.

And he makes the plain fact is that an infallible

Bible, without an infallible,

you

press

them, that is,

give me,

and it

may end up,

even

Matthew

16 and John 21, they claim, have not been defined infallibly.

It's just a merry -go -round.

And that's what makes it a double standard.

They claim that an infallible interpreter is needed.

And yet when you ask for...

And even when, and Bill, perhaps you could chime in here, when we

have encyclicals and other things from popes,

routinely, you hear in the media, on the

internet, you see and hear Roman Catholics

disagreeing about what any given pope actually

meant by what he said or wrote.

In other words, there is no infallible interpreter for what this alleged

infallible interpreter said or wrote about anything.

And therefore, it is a scam.

It is a bait -and -switch.

It is hypocritical for the Church of Rome to say that we are the architects

of theological and doctrinal anarchy in the Church when they cannot have

everyone in a monolithic, lockstep union with one

another because they all disagree about what even their pope says or writes.

Does that make sense to you, Bill?

It's true.

I mean, I talk to Roman Catholics who will tell me straight up,

this is the dogma, I don't believe that.

Or another teaching, what about this pope's teaching, I don't believe that.

Well, you can have their, you know, you have bishops of Rome, they can share what's

going on with Pope Francis.

He'll be quoted by a journalist a

number of times with him.

He's close to it.

And that journalist will, from time to time, disclose something that he has said

to him personally.

That is not speaking ex cathedra.

In his officially declared file

analysis,

don't

scratch

your

head about what

you find is in those declarations, there is

no scripture.

This is a dogma revealed by God.

And this is necessary to

understand the assumption of Mary, what the teaching is.

However, there were two bishops of

great

capacity

that

originate

with

the church, condemned when it was first introduced by

Gnosticism.

But now we have this infallible declaration.

How could it be infallible when you have this contradiction?

When you have an interpretation of the

rock of Matthew 6, you are Peter on this rock, I'll build my church.

And it gives you a Roman Catholic view of that, that is completely

contrary to the unanimous consent of the Church Fathers, who never interpreted that verse that way.

It is

contradictory.

It cannot be infallible on the one hand, when it contradicts the very principle that it

sows, is illegitimate.

It is not perfect scripture in any way contradictory to the unanimous consent of the Fathers.

It is not infallible.

It's proven itself to be.

Yeah, I mean, what does this mean?

How do I know this is infallible from a Roman Catholic perspective?

What is infallible

by the

facts

of history?

We have an anonymous listener who says, I am remaining anonymous because I have many Roman

Catholics in my family, and I don't want to unnecessarily upset them, but I do

tell them the truth when we are together about their aberrations and about their denial of the

true gospel.

But my question to both of you is, when you hear a Catholic

very vehemently and steadfastly and unwavering, truths that

they believe are contained in the scripture and in the tradition of their church

that must be believed, when you hear them discussing things like baptismal

regeneration and a host of other issues that they say must be believed, doesn't it

just make all of this null and void when they say that Muslims can go to heaven because they

adore the same one true God as we do, even as stated in their own

catechism, and they believe that Jews can go to heaven without Christ, and

Buddhists and Hindus and even atheists?

And this is mind -boggling to me that they would go to such great lengths to defend certain doctrines

when it seems to be a moot point if people who are not even professing Christian, let alone Catholic,

can enter into heaven anyway.

So I guess both of you can respond to that, and we'll start with David, since Bill was speaking last.

Sure,

knowledgeable

of one another, and

yet,

one and the same

God, even as

he is taking

you to task and has accused you of being something of a

Nestorian, you almost,

you

break out in laughter because they're so precise when it comes to Christological

issues as defined by the early church and the Trinity.

And even

Pope

Francis comforted that young boy in public that his atheist father

would be in heaven, because even though he was an atheist, I believe the Pope had said that he

still made sure that the young boy went to receive communion or something like that.

And that, in and of itself, gave the Pope absolute assurance that that man was

in heaven, even though he was an atheist.

Bill, do you have anything to add?

Well, the Roman Catholic Church teaches a

doctrine of invincible ignorance.

And what that basically states is, if you are ignorant of the Roman Catholic Church,

God's going to look at this so that if a man is a Muslim and he's

sincere in his own convictions,

and he does not really, really truly understand

Christianity, but I'm not equating that,

but of the Church of Rome in particular, then God will accept that sincerity because

you do understand

the

anathema

ties,

those

trend

in answering the Reformation,

anathematizing anyone who would agree with the teaching

on the canon of

the gospel.

If you know the

truth, it's called

wider mercy.

For Peter, himself or

other name under

heaven, in

all

religions, there is only one means of salvation,

and that is the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen.

And Anonymous, guess what?

You have won compliments of our friends at Banner of Truth.

You have won a free copy of The Church of Rome at the Bar of History by our guest, William

Webster.

And if you give me via email your full name, it will not be disclosed over

the air, obviously, since you remain anonymous.

And your full address, we will get you a copy of this book, thanks to our friends at Cumberland

Valley Bible Book Service, who will be the ones that actually ship it out to you.

CVBBS .com are our friends who always ship out our winners, their free books,

Bibles, and other things that our listeners win by sending in questions.

And if you are a first -time questioner, you'll also get a free New American Standard Bible.

But thank you, Banner of Truth, for supplying us with a limited copy of The Church of Rome at the Bar of History.

And tell me, Bill, something about this wonderful book.

This book means so much to me.

It is one, and I'm not exaggerating, it's one of my very favorite books of all time, especially since

I am a former Roman Catholic.

And I don't even know if I ever told you this, I may have told you this, but when my Roman Catholic mother was

dying, and I was seeking to persuade her to

leave the damning teachings of Roman Catholicism, I had to pick up

this book again and read it again to reassure myself that the

Church of Rome is indeed a false church.

I had to make sure, while my mother was dying, about to leave this planet, that I wasn't doing the wrong

thing by trying to drag her out of there.

And sure enough, your book certainly overwhelmingly persuaded me

that the Church of Rome is indeed a false church.

And so tell us something about this book, The Church of Rome at the Bar of History, in summary form, Bill.

Well, when I first got

involved in high

school, I walked away from not just Roman Catholicism, I walked away

from Christianity.

When I was 24 years old, I was converted to

God and Jesus Christ through the real Gospel.

As a result, I began to

find that

from the perspective of the Word of God,

what is the God?

I was shocked when I really got into the fundamental teachings of Rome and how

they contradict the written Word of God with respect

to the

Gospel of salvation of Rome.

And a friend of mine handed me the book Fundamentalism.

I read this, that you

have to

deal

with the

Roman

Catholics.

It came to

acclaim,

said it's not true

historically.

So I basically trace,

show how it evolved over time, but how that evolution

is actually a demerit, so

that what it is today...

They basically, the Church of Rome, did the same thing that the Pharisees did, did they not?

They reached a point where

they invented their own laws, their own dogmas,

and they were redefining things and inventing things that were never to be found

in the Scriptures, just as the Pharisees did.

Is that a fair comparison?

I think it's a great comparison because what you find is blind

guides are

the blind leaders.

That means the entire nation has gone down a path of embracing false teaching,

and he constantly dealt with them, their false traditions.

Basically, what you have, if you look at the different isms with traditionalism,

Phenomianism,

Fundamentalism, with the evolution of Rome,

finally you reach the point at the Reformation in the 16th century where God says, Enough!

That church was so utterly corrupt,

theologically and its authority structure, that God did what he did with Christ,

and the truth of

the gospel

is the Word of God.

We have

John

in Bangor,

Maine,

who asks,.

I see a great parallel between the Roman Catholic Church and the Judaizers, but

I am often baffled that men who are profound and very deep

in their intellect, and very biblically solid on many, if not most,

areas of Scripture, but at the same time they embrace, as our brothers

and sisters, Roman Catholics, even those Catholics that are true to the dogmas of Trent,

and it just makes me ill, I have to say, what is your opinion about these

great men, who we would even call our brothers, but who also include Roman

Catholics in the family of God?

And why don't we start with David this time, and then we'll go to Bill.

Well, the reality of Holy Scripture is that Jesus said that in the last day,

it goes to

show

evangelical

investigation.

I don't

think,

well, don't

worry about that.

We'll clear that up later.

It just goes to show that one's

allegiance to the

Holy Savior, we're never

commanded in Scripture.

That's where our faith is.

He is the one he commands.

You may

find a

closure of allegiance issue, because

that's the heart of the gospel.

What the gospel is over the mat.

You cannot discuss the sanctity of the gospel and sanctify it

clearly.

And Bill, you have anything to add before we go to the final break?

Reformation,

no clue about

salvation.

The problem is, we use the same term.

The Roman Catholic Church would talk about Scripture.

All of the things

you do not know can

be deceived.

Trinity, or

using, and Augustine.

Petrus was a heretic, but Pelagius taught grace.

He did not deny grace, is the term.

Challenged him on his concept.

Saying it is.

I think it's, you know, when John brought up the issue of Galatians 1.

The Judaizers did not deny Christ.

They professed him.

The way they define salvation, the truth of the gospel, in the name of

Christ.

And that's what Rome does.

And quite honestly, it's what

David just

said.

Vying for

Christ

alone,

by grace

alone, by works.

But it always results.

In fact, we have to go to our final break right now.

Don't go away, everybody.

We'll be right back, right after these final messages.

Lynbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages.

Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ.

In fellowship, play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can

be.

Call Lynbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

That's 516 -599 -9402, or visit lynbrookbaptist .org.

That's lynbrookbaptist .org.

Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals.

Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants, as well as radio stations,

theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people groups.

With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see

how God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally as well as

locally.

To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth

.org.

Hi,

I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, for the G3

Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd.

The theme this year is Christ is Supreme Over All.

My friend Chris Arnzen and I will be joined by several of our other friends, including Votie Valcum, Justin

Peters, Daryl Bernard Harrison, Virgil Walker, and James White.

More than 20 other speakers will be joining us, and the lineup this year includes my pastor, John MacArthur.

For details, visit g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G3

2021.

This is Phil Johnson reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and

always.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

Welcome back.

And we have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who wants to say,

can you both point out some of these teachings that Rome claims existed all the way back

to the apostles that were inventions just as they

claim that Luther is the one that invented his own gospel and other things

in the 16th century.

Bill, could you point out some of the things that you actually bring up in the Church of Rome at the Bar of History, which is

the book that we've been giving away?

Okay, he's asking the question, what are some of the teachings Rome promotes,

or is he saying that...

The ones that Rome claims were, I think he's saying, that

what are the teachings that Rome claims existed all the way back to Jesus and the

apostles?

Oh, okay.

Yeah, if you read, they make the claim there

with primacy, John 21 for papal shepherding,

and then Luke 22 for papal infallibility.

Vatican 1 states, this has always been what's been believed.

This is what has always been.

They never interpret

primacy.

Christ did not build his church on a man, but on Peter's confession.

And there he is interpreting the rock.

He quotes Matthew 16, and you are Peter on the Sharaka film,

Peter.

And that was in one form

or another.

No, that is

unknown.

You can look at the teaching of the assumption.

The assumption is non -existent, and

yet these are now

full of unanimous consent

in the unanimous consent of how they interpret Matthew 16.

Contradicts the

claim that there's

somehow a continuity between Roman

Catholicism's claim and the Eastern...

David, how about some of the other core teachings of Roman

Catholicism that they believe existed even back to Christ,

such as transubstantiation?

And even the sacrament of penance.

Yes, these

modern

day

accretions cannot be...

Okay, we have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania,

who says that I have heard some of the most

respected and honored evangelical apologists say that the

Church of Rome is a true church with some flaws.

And I have heard others say that the Church of Rome is a false church that teaches some truths.

What would you both have to say about that?

It's under...

So what men say, really, is not the issue.

The issue is the Word of God.

Perch the gospel.

You're under anathema.

That's a divine anathema.

That is not men's anathema.

And Rome has perverted the gospel.

When you

think of the imputed righteousness of precation,

that is a clearly taught...

Yeah, Norman Geisler used to repeat that sentiment.

And Hank Anagraft did, and look what happened to Hank.

He converted to Eastern Orthodoxy.

Well, I want to make sure our listeners have your contact information.

First of all, and by the way, everybody who sent in a question today gets a free copy of Church of Rome at the Bar of History,

the book published by Banner of Truth that we have been discussing.

We thank Banner of Truth for providing us with these copies.

We thank CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, for shipping the copies out.

But if you want to get in touch with Bill Webster at Grace Bible Church in

Battleground, Washington, go to gracebiblebattleground .org,

gracebiblebattleground .org.

If you want to go to the Christian Resources website,

that website is christiantruth .com,

christiantruth .com.

And if you want to visit the website of the church where David King serves as the assistant to the

pastor, Christ Church in Katy, Texas, go to cckpca .org,

cckpca .org.

I want to thank you both for being my guests today.

I look forward to you coming back soon and often, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ

is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.