Interview With Unchurched Attendees Of Star Wars Easter Spectacle

Okay, moving along. This is my interview recorded earlier with the filmmakers from Winnipeg, who actually took the time to respond to the four-color mailer flyer that was sent to them, inviting them to Church on the Rock's Easter Star Wars spectacle extravaganza.

The Unchurched Audience for a Star Wars Easter Spectacle

Here we go. All right, on the line, I have Darren and Lauren from Winnipeg, Canada. I mentioned them last week on the air and actually played some audio from their video. These are two people who are not self-identifying as Christians who had the flyer to go and see the Star Wars Easter spectacle at the Church on the Rock in Winnipeg, Canada, and I've invited them on Fighting for the Faith to discuss their experience and what they thought of it.

Darren and Lauren, thank you for coming on Fighting for the Faith. Thanks. Okay, so, all right, real quick for the audience, tell me a little bit about your religious affiliation, you know, and what you consider yourself to be at the.

Moment. Darren, tell me a little bit about your religious affiliation. Yeah, currently. Okay,.

All right, so, and then Lauren, tell us about your religious experience. I was raised Catholic,.

And just growing up, just kind of got out of the Church, and yeah, that's pretty much it, nothing.

Too crazy. Okay, all right, so, I mean, neither one of you are self-identifying currently as Christians, right? No, no. Okay, so, you know, let's use the marketing lingo that seeker-driven pastors use nowadays.

So, basically, they would consider you to be unchurched people. I don't know what, you know, how you use that word, I mean, but that's the demographic that technically they would put you into, although churching somebody sounds like a very painful process, if you ask me.

Yeah, again, I'm not bristling against the idea of Christian discipleship, I just don't know what churching is, but anyway. All right, so, tell me about, you know, how did you come to hear about this Easter spectacle that included Star Wars?

Walk.

Me through the process. What made you guys decide to go and see this? Well, you know, in the mail with the, as you would see on the people from the chat, hey, do you want to go there? And indeed, they were streaming it live on their website.

Having made some previous videos, we thought it'd be a good opportunity to maybe make another one and shed some light onto that.

Okay, so, the George Lucas Star Wars fans are, you know, so we're not worried about whether or not they're offensive to Christians, I mean, this is just outright offensive to people who are actually like Star Wars, is that what you're saying?

Production Value of the Star Wars Spectacle

Okay, now, I watched your video several times. What did you think of the dancing stormtroopers? I mean, wasn't that just amazing? Okay, okay. So, I mean, as far as theatrical production value goes, I mean, let's say, 10 is a Broadway performance that you're willing to pay $150, $300 a ticket for, to maybe one being a really bad first grade school production.

Where would you put the theatrical value for this particular experience and spectacle? On that scale, how would you rate.

It? The and everything was like, okay, but the R2-D2, this R2-D2 came out, George Lucas, really, I was like, wow, that's impressive performance and everything aspect of things, I believe. Yeah, no, it was, yeah, like, yeah, in terms of like, what I'm saying, like sets of things, I had a fog machine, like, it was, and they must have put it, yeah, in terms of pretty, yeah, pretty good.

Uh-huh. Yeah, like Han Solo saying space cowboy.

Okay. So, Han Solo, space cowboy. Oh, my. Okay. Okay. So, there's kind of like two things you're looking at here, then. It's like the set itself, they clearly spent a lot of money on the set. Oh, yeah.

Okay. So, as far as that production value is concerned, you're saying that's an eight? Yeah. Okay. I mean, how much money do you think they dropped on this production? I mean, we're talking tens, twenties, $30 ,000, $50 ,000.

How much are we talking here? I mean.

How much? I believe they already had it. Okay. Okay. All right. So, okay, so we got that. Then.

As far as, let's say the show performance itself on a scale of one to 10, where would you grade that? I mean, we know the set's like an eight, but what about the artistic score here? Where.

Would you put it? The whole thing was just like cut, like they just, I mean, you kind of have to do, but like in the movie, Han Solo goes into that, turns into like, and gets like frozen,.

But Luke Skywalker, like it was just like all. Okay. So, the theatrical performance, not so much on the lower end of the scale. Got it. Okay. All right. So, here's kind of the burning question I have is, how did they weave a Christian message into the story of Star Wars, and did you find the parallels that they were trying to tease out between the Star Wars themes and Christian theology, did you find those to be valid parallels or strained parallels or not really seeing the connection at all?

I mean, just kind of walk me through theologically, what was the message.

Of this show? As I mentioned, and the story, it didn't really weave really any theology into it. It was just kind of like local town names and I was kind of waiting for the punchline, you know, where they, you know, go into, you know, this biblical person.

And it just, at the end of the end, quite an upbeat, clappy, yeah, it was the only one they did happen to do, but yeah, I certainly didn't draw really any parallels. Because in the, like, saying Darth Vader, I don't know.

Okay, well, that's kind of weird.

Did Luke Skywalker in the production die for people and rise again from the grave? I mean, I don't recall that in the Star Wars movies. In what sense is he a Jesus character, or at least how do they try to portray him as a Jesus character?

Yeah, nothing. All of a sudden he comes...

Okay, so they froze Luke Skywalker rather than Han Solo, is what you're saying?

Yes, yeah. So they flipped that to try and make the connection, but...

Right. Okay. All right. Yeah, I'm kind of at a loss here. I mean, because here's the deal, is that this pastor makes no bones about the fact that the whole production itself was an evangelistic outreach to make Christianity relevant to the unchurched people.

Entertainment Evangelism and the Failure to Proclaim the Gospel

Do you feel after sitting through this spectacle that Christianity is now relevant to you?

I'm not in the... Yeah, for the younger crowd that are reaching out, you might not know what to tell you or you go do about that, and it's cool that young, they're interesting and different, but to the other end of it...

So what you're saying is that the way to convert an atheist from being an atheist to being a Christian is not just to entertain him or make him laugh or give him a couple hours of something amusing to look at.

Are you basically saying that entertainment is not a compelling reason for you to basically give up your atheism there, Darren?

Yeah, I mean, yeah. I didn't do the trick, he's still an atheist. Okay, so... Something that I'm trying to find things in Christianity that are... Right. ...that we can... if we improve...

Right. Actually, it'd be a 180. A 360 would have you start at atheism, spin all the way around and be an atheist still. That's... There you go. Yeah, okay. Yeah, we want you to do a 180, but that's something completely different.

Okay, I mean, how about you, Lauren? I mean, you grew up Roman Catholic, I mean, after finding out how much these people care about you, so much that they want to entertain you, I mean, if you were to think about going back to a church, I mean, having not been in a church for a long period of time, because they made you laugh and entertained you and kind of were quirky with the Star Wars story, would this be the church that you would want to go to?

No. Growing up, I read the book, for lack of a better term. It's more, you go there, you listen to scripture from the Bible, you sing some songs, you have communion and stuff like that, and so I've never really been exposed to, like, the evangelical-type service.

So, no, Star Wars didn't really hit home for me for that.

Right. So what you... I want to make sure I... I'm going to highlight something here that you said. You found that the Roman Catholic Church was more focused on the Bible than what you saw in this evangelical production, correct?

Uh, yeah. Got it. Yeah, like, normal Mass would be, you talk about... we'll listen to scripture or a passage from the Bible, and then the priest will talk about how it will relate into... Nowadays, that's the church where I grew up, so you talk to the Bible, and then he would say, this is how you can use some of the teachings in your everyday life.

Right. So the Roman Catholic Church is more biblical than the Church on the Rock. Oh, man. I'm going to tell you, there's a lot of people in hearing you say that that are just going to have a huge knee-jerk reaction, but I think they need to go through these convulsions myself.

Okay, so...

Well, I've never sat through an actual evangelical service before, because we left before the whole service started, so we saw the show and left, so we didn't know if... we don't know if they talked about...

Well, I'm convinced that if a Roman Catholic Church had tried to put on this production and tried to somehow weave it into the Bible, they might have started with, you know, saying, may the force be with you, and then the people would have said, and also with you, and then the guy would have said, and now if we're reading from the Gospel of Luke, I mean, you know, because, you know, that's... exactly.

Anyway, okay, so, all right, so neither one of you... so the production and the entertainment and kind of the big question marks that were left in your mind theologically, at the end of it, you were... neither one of you felt compelled to drop to your knees in penitence because of your sins and trust in Christ for the forgiveness of your sins after watching this Star Wars production.

Is that safe to say? Okay, and did you learn anything substantial about Christianity through this production at all? I mean, did you feel like, at the end of it, it's like, oh, wow, I really have a deeper understanding of the Christian faith after sitting through this production?

No, not at all.

Okay, so it actually left you confused. Yeah. Okay, so at least when it comes to you two, this was not an effective evangelism outreach program. No. Got it. Okay, so... oh, wow. And I guess I'm really saddened by all of this, at least in this sense, because what you've described is a church that has spent a lot of money, that has put in a lot of hours of writing a script and doing rehearsal and hiring the musicians and writing the music and sending out those four-color mailers that, I mean, you showed that in your video, you had a copy of the mailer, and advertising it on the internet and all this kind of stuff, and at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, you didn't even hear anything remotely with any depth regarding what the message of Christianity is, who Jesus Christ is, that he died on the cross for your sins, that there's really good news, and that he rose again from the grave for you, and you never really heard a clarion call to repent and trust in Christ so that you, too, can have eternal life that's offered in Jesus.

You didn't hear any of that. No. Then the question is, what on earth did they spend all that money for, then? I mean, ultimately, what do you think the purpose of the production was if it wasn't for that?

I think it was, you know, and the more people you get into, you know, money gets, and you know, the more people you, you, and it was, in the video, it's a hockey rink. It used to be a warehouse, but then they redid it.

They had a few runs of the show, I think they had six, maybe, runs of the show, I could be wrong, but there was more than.

Right, and I saw in your video that they were passing the bucket and, you know, taking an offering to support the cost of the building and the set and all of that kind of stuff. One of the things I've pointed out on my program is that this particular model for doing church, and I'm putting church in air quotes there, is extremely expensive, and I liken those buildings as to kind of like permanent television studios where they always have to kind of up themselves, you know, and, you know, even have greater spectacle over and again in order just to keep the people coming in so that they can raise the money so that they can keep the show going.

It's like a perpetual show rather than just kind of a one-time thing. Do you think that's a fair way to describe them?

Of what they're doing? But the method is kind of wonky in that sense.

Okay, so it's a wonky method, huh? Yeah. Okay, all right. I think that's a good way of putting it. So, all right. Well, I don't think I have any other questions for you, and I think you've kind of painted the picture, you know, obviously, like I said, you were the target that they were trying to reach, and at the end of it you are left with major theological questions, big questions about why, and you didn't leave with any greater sense of clarity regarding the Christian faith after watching the show and the production.

Although, based on your YouTube channel, I'm pretty convinced that if another church does something similar, you'll probably be traveling and making another video. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to come on Fighting for the Faith, and let me just say this, that, you know, I don't think that they did a very good job of portraying what Christianity is and what the message is, and it would be unchristian of me to not say that the Christian message is so much better than what you saw in that Star Wars production, and that there is a God, and that God actually came to Earth and was incarnate of the Spirit of the Virgin Mary, as you would know, Lauren, and He died on the cross for our sins.

That'd be your sins and mine, and He rose again on the third day. I mean, there's some really good, deep answers that Christianity has to the problem questions that we have in life, and I think they're far more satisfying than the answers that are out there in other religions or even atheism.

And I hope that even though the production itself was wonky and all that kind of stuff, that that would not keep you from examining the claims regarding Jesus Christ and who He is and what He's done and what He's accomplished, and really the hope.

And the good news that He brings to the world. I agree, it's a different show, and I just wanted.

To put that out there. I didn't want to debate you, but I just wanted to basically say that what you saw really wasn't the Christian message properly portrayed, and it's just my invitation to you to basically say that if you want to know what the Christian faith is, it's a lot deeper than that.

And I would even invite you to spend some time listening to my program, Fighting for the Faith, because one of the things I try to do is not only portray and proclaim the historic Catholic faith, Catholic with a small c, but also deal straight up and authentically with the fact that there's a lot of people out there who are representing Christianity who, for one reason or another, are not rightly handling the message or purposefully trying to hide the message of what it's about.

And there's so much more to Christianity than what you saw, and I'm saddened that you left with that kind of bad, wonky taste in your mouth, you know?

How you came across that?

Well, funny enough, I covered this Star Wars story a little bit on my program and had mentioned it on my program in the lead-up to Easter, and a listener from your area saw your video and posted it on my Facebook wall.

And my Facebook wall has a lot of traffic on it where people are putting up suggestions for things that they think would be something I would be interested to cover on my radio program, and your video was one of the things that showed up on there.

And after watching it, I knew that, number one, I had to actually play some of the audio of what it is that you recorded in your video, but also invite you on the air, because I knew that your story was important to be heard from your particular point of view as people who are, quote-unquote, unchurched, because you were the people that they were trying to reach out to.

Why the Interview Mattered and What Comes Next

Yeah, okay. All right. Well, Darren and Lauren, thank you for your time, and thank you for taking the time to actually go out and make that video. I think what you actually did was important work, and I hope that it will be a catalyst for some of these pastors who are into this entertainment-driven methodology to maybe reconsider what it is that they're doing.

Great, well, I hope so.

All right. Keep in touch. If you guys can do another video like that, send me a message. I'd like to see what other work you guys are up to. You guys are troublemakers. All right. Thank you. Thank you.

So what'd you think? I'd love to get your feedback. If you'd like to email me regarding anything you've heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith, you can do so. My email address is TalkBackAtFightingForTheFaith .com, or you can subscribe on Facebook, Facebook .com forward slash PirateChristian, or you can follow me on Twitter, at PirateChristian.

Quick break. When we come back, contestant number two, Steve Kelly from Wave Church and his Beatles Easter sermon for our Worst Easter Sermon of the Year contest. Don't.

Want to miss it. We'll be right back. No itching ears are scratched here. You're listening to Fighting for the Faith.