Get rich or preach trying

Open Air Theology

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00:04

You can say what you want, but you won't around me, black sheep among misfits, a misfit in the trailer park at night, a misprint with the six cents, been sick ever since my brother died of an

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OD, my two cents never made sense, either to me or anyone else inside of the sheep fence, my 9th

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Smith on my right side, why you staring at your cop dot sign and my John Hancock on the dotted line, tell me what's the bottom line, the bottom line is

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I'm not right, I'm not left but this elephant won't fight, there's nothing left but the spotlight, hold my peer, you can find me in the moonlight, you can say what you want, you can say what you want, but you won't around me, you can say what you want, you can say what you,

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I'm whips in the deep end and I can't find my assigned seat to sit in, my theology don't fit in, black sheep of the reformation sheep pen, to the reformed

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I'm just another Baptist baptized again, the bastard child of Anabaptist, poster child of reformation society, we don't need your education, give me a

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Bible and a bookshelf of dead man, cigars, bourbons and beer cans, bow ties, tattoos and bearded men, making reformation great again, you can say what you want, you can say what you want, but you won't around me, you can say what you want, you can say what you want, but you won't around me, no you won't around me.

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Ladies and gentlemen, we are live. Welcome to Open Air Theology. My name is

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Jeff. I'm one of the pastors at Covenant Reform Baptist Church, and in case you're wondering, that track that was just playing, my fellow elder

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Cal Sunilia did the music for that track. I know it's really, really good.

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He let me hear it, and the words have started coming, so I just want to give him a shout out.

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So again, this is Open Air Theology. My name is Jeff, and I'm one of the pastors at Covenant Reform Baptist Church, and if you haven't heard,

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I'm going to tell you now, February the 17th through the 19th, we're having a conference, an

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Open Air Theology conference at my church that I pastor, and I mean, if you're not planning on being there, like, are you really

03:09

Baptist? I don't know, I don't know, you know what I'm saying, but I'm going to pass it over to my brother, Brayden.

03:15

Brayden, introduce yourself, brother. Yeah, that's a fact. I mean, I'm pretty sure that's somewhere in the

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Bible. If you don't show up to this, you're not Baptist, so you better be there. You'll at least get your Baptist card pulled. It will definitely be pulled, that's a fact, and re -invoking it will take a little bit, but no,

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I'm Pastor Brayden of Valley Baptist Church. It's a blessing to be here tonight with some really, really solid brothers in fellowship and in unity and in Christ, and I also run a

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YouTube channel called Reformed Ex -Mormon. If you aren't subscribed, are you even Reformed, and that's what

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I'm going to say. So anyway, it's a blessing to be here with these brothers that I dearly love and sincerely appreciate their fellowship.

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So on that note, I'll pass it over to Haps. Well, what is up, y 'all?

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This is Pastor Happy with Olive Branch Ministries, and I'm one of the hosts here and also have another show called

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R &B Studios, and I am so glad I could be here and meet Greg, and I'm just going to pass it off to Greg.

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Hi, Greg. Hey. Again, I'm Greg, and I am the former pastor of Valley Baptist Church, and so Brayden and I are good friends, and I would say brothers in a foxhole there in southern

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Idaho, as we've done plenty of evangelism out on the streets together. I'm currently ...

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I live in Florida. I am a member of First Baptist Church of Coleman of Florida.

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We are a 1689 fellowship, which is a unicorn, to say the least, not only in the

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United States, but especially in the free state of Florida. So I am glad to be on here once again with these brothers who get a chance to meet

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Haps other than being on Facebook. Yeah, well, it's good to have you on.

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Again, I know we've extended the invitation to you, and we enjoy your fellowship online.

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We enjoy your fellowship with us on this podcast. Is it really a podcast, though?

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I told someone that we had a podcast, and once I said we're on YouTube, they were like, well, that's not really a podcast.

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It's a show. Yeah, I mean, it's a show. Yeah, so we just start calling it a show, the

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Open Air Theology Show, right? Yeah. I know some people call it vlogging, but I don't think that really took off.

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I'm a vlogger. I'm a vlogger. I'm a vlogger. So if you haven't noticed, our show, this show tonight, it's called

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Get Rich or Preach Trying, and we want to talk about the dangers of the prosperity movement.

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Now, this is something that Braden reached out. He wanted to talk about, and so that's what we're going to attempt tonight.

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I also want to say that in doing so tonight, we're not...

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What do you call them, guys? This is just what they do. They go, and they find heretics.

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Heresy hunting. Heresy hunting. Okay, so this is not what this show is.

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We're not heresy hunting, but we do want to talk about this issue because it's an issue that impacted me whenever I first became a

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Christian, and so I don't know the order, Braden, that you want to go in. Yeah, so what

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I was thinking is that I'm sure that we all have our unique perspectives of the prosperity gospel movement, right?

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I think we all give general ideas and definitions of it, and I'm sure that our definitions would be essentially the same, and I'm assuming we'd pull from scripture the same and all that kind of stuff, which is fine.

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If that happens, that's totally okay, but my thinking on it was that every one of us probably have a unique perspective, whether we've dealt with it inside our local bodies, whether we see it across the corner on another street from us, or we've seen it in a large scale in different ways.

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I'm sure we've seen the prosperity gospel affect us in different ways, and so what I was really hoping for tonight was giving each one of us seven to nine minutes somewhere in that general area since there's four of us just to kind of talk through those experiences, so I was thinking

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I would go last just since I was the one that brought the topic up, but I would say maybe we just start.

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Jeff, go on first. I got to figure out how to point at this because it's backwards for me. Greg, you go second.

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Apps, you go third, and then I can go fourth. Yeah, right? It's almost like the Brady Bunch. It's almost like the

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Brady Bunch. Yeah. But yeah, no, that was kind of what

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I was thinking, and none of us hold to the prosperity gospel, praise God. We're within orthodoxy, and so yeah.

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So I can't get rich or preach trying? You probably shouldn't be. Well, let's just put it like that, but yeah,

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I figured we could all give a little bit of a definition of what it is, some scriptural, and then our experiences with it, so on that note,

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Jeff, if you want to just kick things off, and if it goes over nine minutes, I don't think any of us are too concerned about that.

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Yeah, well, I definitely want to keep it under ten minutes. Yeah. Yeah, so with me, when it comes to this issue of the prosperity movement, so some of y 'all probably know,

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I've said this before, so I originally was ordained in the

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Pentecostal movements, the Churches of God, Assemblies of God, Trinitarian Pentecostal movements, and this prosperity preaching was definitely alive, kicking, screaming, in those circles, right?

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Now, it's definitely something that has impacted me, but before I get into my personal experience,

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I definitely want to go to the text, and so just so you understand where I'm coming from,

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I want to look at Galatians chapter one, verses six and seven, and it says,

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I am not ashamed. No, no, no. That's a good text, too. We could read that one.

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Yeah. I actually had it on here, but I don't know why I was quoting it. I'm looking at this and quoting,

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I'm not ashamed of the gospel, which I'm not. We can go to Romans one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so Galatians, Galatians, not

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Romans, Galatians, beginning in verse six, it says, I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel.

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Now, verse seven tells you not that there is another one, but there are some who would trouble you and want you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

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Now, notice there wasn't another gospel.

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Like he says that you're turning to a different gospel, but not that there is one. The prosperity movement is not a gospel.

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If you have to give to receive a blessing, that's not good news.

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The good news is that we, the good news comes off of the heels of bad news.

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We broke God's law, bad news. We deserve punishment, good news. God paid our fine by sending his son,

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Jesus Christ. Jesus is the propitiation. God paid our fine by sending his son to live the life that we could not live and to take the punishment that we deserve.

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That's the good news. Christ died for our sins. According to the scriptures, he was buried and he rose on the third day and he ascended into the heaven and he sits at the father's side ruling in rain and putting all of his enemies under his feet.

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That is the gospel. That's the good news. Giving money in order to be blessed, that's not good news.

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That's not good news. That is not a gospel. There's no such thing as a prosperity gospel.

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There's only false teachers, just as we see in the book of Galatians. There wasn't another gospel.

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Getting circumcised was not another gospel, but there were false teachers.

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So it's the same thing that we see going on in our churches today when it comes to the prosperity movement. There's not another gospel.

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There's no such thing as a prosperity gospel. That's not good news, but there's false teachers who are peddling like pimps this false message.

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If you give me money, the Lord will bless you. Now, just to give you some of my experience.

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When I became a Christian, again, this was before YouTube or at least before I knew

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YouTube. So TBN was on my TV constantly.

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I'm wanting to learn about Christianity. I discipled myself through Perry Stone.

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Yeah, true story. I listened to all of his manifest programs.

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I had all of his books. Loved them. Loved them. I was a part of a church, the church that I went to.

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They would have you to walk up and take your money, throw it on the floor, and the pastor would come over and buck dance on it, putting the seed into the ground.

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There was one time where the plate was passed. The preacher got up there and was speaking.

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All of a sudden, the deacon walks up, whispers in his ear, and the pastor stops preaching.

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He says, lock those doors. Pass those plates again. You are going to give.

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There was a time where I forgot to give. I asked the pastor, I said, hey, where's the plate at?

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I forgot to put my money. He said, oh, it's over there. Go get your blessing. There was a man by the name of Peter Popoff.

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I think that's how you say his name. Yes, it is. Well, when I first became a

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Christian, I was listening to him and I bought into it. I asked for whatever he had to be sent to me.

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Now, I'm saying this because I want you to know that there's power in evil.

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Evil is a power. There's power in witchcraft.

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It's not good power, but there's power in witchcraft. Peter Popoff was writing me, and I was writing him back.

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In one of his letters, he said if I would give him a hundred dollars, I would receive seventeen hundred dollars.

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I thought that was a good deal. I gave him a hundred dollars. Well, a couple of weeks,

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I had scored a roof job from someone that I used to go to church with.

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The final cost of that roof was going to be fourteen hundred dollars. They owed me fourteen hundred dollars after putting this roof on.

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When I received the check, the check was for seventeen hundred dollars. There's power in this movement.

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Little did I know that I knew someone else that was writing and receiving letters from Peter Popoff.

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I had just received the letter, again, asking for more money. I walked into his house and I saw that he had received a letter.

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I said, hey, can I read your letter? He said, yeah. It was the same letter, same words, same everything that he wrote to me.

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I mean, same everything. I wrote him and said, look. I sent both letters to him.

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I said, don't write me again. Well, he wrote me again. Again, this is me. I'm a young Christian.

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I still got some flesh in me. I wrote him back. I said, look, punk, you write me another letter.

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I'm going to come to one of your meetings and punch you in the face. Don't write me again.

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He never wrote me again. He didn't write me again. I say that because there's power in that movement.

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It's not the right power. It's not good power. It's like Ouija board power. It's like the occult, witchcraft.

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There's power in that stuff, but it's not good power. It's not good power. We want our lives to be filled with God's presence.

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We don't want our lives to be filled around evil entities. This prosperity movement, it's an evil entity.

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All it is, it's after your money. It's only after your money. Now, with that said,

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I do want to say that we are to give money to the church, but not to receive a blessing.

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A church building has rent. There's lights. There's things that in the building, if you want to be able to meet in a building, there's things that have to be paid.

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Rent has to be paid. Lights have to be paid. Water has to be paid, but then there's also mission work.

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You want to be a church that's doing stuff in your own neighborhood, but also you want to be a church that's giving money overseas to support missionaries.

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Well, you can't do that if you're not giving money, but you need to understand that you don't give money to be a blessing.

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You give money to bless. Also, I want to say when it comes to giving your money that not only in your light bill,

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I mean, in paying the light bills and paying the rent and in paying so that the people in your area will hear the gospel or that people across the seas will hear the gospel, but also the

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Bible tells us in 1 Timothy 5, beginning in verse 17, let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

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Right here it says, for the scripture says, you shall not muzzle the ox when it treads out the grain and the labor deserves his wages.

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Pastoring the last two years and having to work full -time has really been tough.

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I understand this because pastoring, it's a job. It's a hard job, laboring with the messages.

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I don't know how many hours a week I put in to study in the Bible when

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I stand up before the congregation to give the word. I truly understand that this is a job.

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Then you have to deal with the congregation. Not that that's a bad thing, but you have to be there for your congregation.

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Pastoring is, I hate to use the word, a job, but the laborer is worthy of his wage.

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I believe that your pastor, whatever your church is, your pastor, you not only give to pay the rent, you not only give to pay the bills, you don't give to receive a blessing, but you give to bless.

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In that, your pastor needs that blessing because he is working. If your pastor is preaching 45 -minute sermons or better, if he's in that Bible study and if he's having to deal with your butt, trust me, he's a laborer worthy of his wage.

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Not only that, when you look into the book of Hebrews chapter 13, it says to remember your leaders.

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It says to share what you have with them and to obey them. If your leader is preaching and teaching the word of God, you are to share what you have with them.

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That is not for you to get a blessing, but that is for you to be a blessing. So why do we give?

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To bless people, not, listen, not to receive a blessing. If that's what you're doing it for, you're worshiping an idol.

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You're worshiping an idol. I'm done. Amen. Drop mic right there.

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Mic drop. That's how you say that. Greg, it's your turn, brother. Go ahead. I'll drop mic.

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All right. 10 minutes. All right.

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So here we go. All right. I want to actually start from the Old Testament, from the prophet

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Jeremiah, an actual prophet, not these self aggrandized ones. So here, in Jeremiah 23,

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I'm not going to read the whole chapter, but I'm going to read verses 1 -2, 25 -27, and 30 -32.

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So hear what it says. This is the Lord speaking. He says, Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture, declares

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Yahweh. Therefore, thus says Yahweh, the God of Israel, concerning the shepherds who are shepherding my people, you have scattered my flock and banished them and have not attended to them, and both are about to attend to you for the evil of your deeds.

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Skipping ahead to 25 -27. It says, I have heard what the prophets have said, who prophesy a lie in my name, saying,

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I had a dream. I had a dream. How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy a lie?

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Even these prophets of the deception of their own heart, who intend to make my people forget my name by their dreams, which they recount to one another just as their fathers forgot my name because of Baal.

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And then 30 -32, it says, therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, declares Yahweh, who steal my words from each other.

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Behold, I am against the prophets, declares Yahweh, who take their tongues and declare, Yahweh declares.

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Behold, I am against those who have prophesied lying dreams, declares

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Yahweh, and who recounted them by their lying and reckless boasting.

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Yet I did not send them, and I did not commend them, and they did not furnish this people the slightest benefit, declares

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Yahweh. I could end it there.

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So, but I mean, because this goes for any, you know, any false prophets, any of those who take upon themselves the name of the

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Lord, who take upon themselves the mantle of prophet, God's got a beef, period.

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And if God's got a beef, I've got a beef. If you've got, because here's the thing.

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It's like, I really, genuinely have problems with the prosperity gospel.

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I'm from the South, okay? The prosperity gospel is rampant throughout the

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South. It's especially rampant here in Florida. If you're familiar with, like, the stuff that came after the

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Toronto blessing and all this other stuff, that the

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Lakeland revival is one of the things, one of the big shenanigans. Lakeland is, like, the county

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South of us, or one of the counties just, like, South of us. We're, like, connected to the county that Lakeland is in.

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So this hits home pretty close for me. Like, I mean, this is very close to home for me.

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And my troubles with it is, like, one of the things that really bothers me about it is its bastardization of the scriptures, okay?

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I am one who, I do believe that the idea of the tithe is something that carries on into the new covenant.

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We can have a discussion, whatever, but that's where I go. And Malachi does tell me to bring all the tithe into the storehouse.

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And the Lord himself says, test me in this and see if I won't pour out a blessing, okay?

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God says to do that. And what do these people do? They take the scriptures and they bastardize it.

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They attack it, they assault it, and they twist it like their daddy, the devil, where God says, the only time he tells us to test him in something, to see if he won't be faithful, they take it and they go as one of these shepherds that God decries, and they twist it.

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I have a grave problem with that. You know,

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I would like Nicholas and punch him in the face, you know, or Jeff in Peter Popoff.

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I wouldn't make that watch, you know, so that, but the trouble, the prosperity gospel, the biggest thing is, again, it twists the scriptures.

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You know, we look at what Malachi says about bringing the tithe into the storehouse, it twists that. If we look at James 5, 14 and 15, where it tells us that if a man is sick, that he's to go to the elders of the church, and they are to anoint him, and they are to pray.

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God says to do it, right? God told us to do that sort of thing, and yet, how many of us in, you know, the reformed circles, let alone evangelical circles, and particularly, let's say reformed

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Baptist circles, are going to look at James 5, 14 to 15 and go, that seems too charismatic.

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Not me, I keep all in my pocket. We're not talking just for your beard, dude.

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But, you know, but the thing is, like, you know, how many people even stop because of these prosperity preachers, because of what they've done?

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Or, you know, we look at Isaiah 53, or 1 Peter 2, 24, you know, 1

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Peter 2, 24 in particular, you know, how often have you heard, you know, by his stripes we are healed?

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Praise God, it's what the Word says, right? It says, by his stripes we are healed, but then if we look at the context, the full context of 1

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Peter 2, 1 Peter 2, 24, it says, who himself, because, you know, we're being told to, you know, follow in his steps, follow in Christ's steps, who himself, verse 24, who himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that you die, that having died to sin, we might live to righteousness by his wounds you are healed.

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The obvious thing is that what you've been healed from is sin, and yet, and you know what, and there is something to be said, that yes, there will be healing from our illness, there will be healing from our sickness, and from all the things, but the good chance is it ain't in this life, but we do have a resurrection, and so there's a belittling of the scriptures, there's a belittling of God's promises, there's a belittling and bastardization of God's, you know, what his

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Word has said, and you know, those, you know, us good cessationists have said, oh, we don't want to stay away from that, because we don't want to be seen too crazy, when in fact, it's really stupid, because God has spoken, and we should obey, and we should hear him, but then the issue, other issues that I've got with this, that with the prosperity gospel, and this is men, not just Peter Popoff, he's,

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I mean, he, you know, Peter Popoff, Mike Murdock, guys like that, the TBNers are, you know, that's the easy game, because they're so ridiculous, but what about men like Stephen Furtick, what about T .D.

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Jakes, I mean, he's big name, oh, you know, what about, you know,

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I know, what's this Greg Locke guy that we see, you know, people like this, that, you know, get real popular,

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I mean, I've had issues where you speak out against somebody like Stephen Furtick, I had this in a place that I serve, you speak out against, you know, against the

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Furtie, and people freak the heck out, never mind the fact that he's in favor of a man like T .D.

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Jakes, a, you know, a blasted modalist, you know, a heretic, damn to hell, and says, this is my guy, but here's the issues, like, here's some issues, not only do they, not only does

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God warn us against this, I mean, Jeremiah, we see that, I mean, God is very explicit about this, and not only do they twist the scriptures, which alone is bad enough, but think of, you know,

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God's problem with them, that we saw there in Jeremiah 23, is what they do to God's sheep, yeah,

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Jesus doesn't take kindly to this, I do believe that there are believers that are caught up in this trash, that they are ignorant, and that they are being wrung dry because of this, and we have seen what the

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Lord God omnipotent has had to say about that, because these people, they give false promises of wealth, never mind that Jesus said in Matthew 8 20, you know, the foxes have holes, the birds of, you know, the sky have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head, they have false promises of health, never mind the fact that, you know,

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Jesus was crucified, and then we've also see 2 Corinthians 12, 7 through 10, 1

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Timothy 5 23, Galatians 6 11, you have examples where the apostle Paul was getting murked all over the place, that, you know, he had his issues with his sight, and so, you know, and if it was just, you know, name it and claim it, if that was all that the problems were, but that's not it, it is usually anti -Trinitarian, you know, it's, and there's so many, there's just so much that's involved in it, so, you know, the troubles are that it teaches falsely, it points away from the

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Word of God, because you're wanting to seek a new fresh revelation from God, and the thing is, is the prosperity gospel is so rampant, we don't, it's embedded everywhere, when

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Lifeway existed as a standalone store, it was very easy to walk in there, and you would see

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Sarah Young's Jesus Calling, that's prosperity stuff, okay, because you're trying to get a fresh word from God, when he's giving you a book that you're not even reading, and then not only, like here's another problem, like one thing that just bugs the heck out of me,

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I understand you're about three minutes over, oh I'm sorry, I'll, I appreciate you calling me out there, is so, is that it, it condemns the saint for not having enough faith, when, when things don't go right, the saint is a problem, you know, is because they just simply didn't have enough faith, and it's, it's disgusting.

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Yeah, when I hear blab it and grab it, I hear regurgitate it and eat it. Barf it and snarf it.

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Yeah. Apps, what you got on this topic, brother? Oh, I got a whole bunch. I bet you do.

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I got a whole bunch, and you know what, you know, let's just really be honest, this, this is satanic in nature, this, this, the reason why this is so dangerous, is this, this goes all the way back to the garden, the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, the pride of life, all right, and that's what it goes, and this is why it appeals to the ungenerated man.

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If it's about health and wealth, you know, this is, this is what draws them in. Of course, their sinful desires are going to draw them in, and so if they're real true believers in Jesus Christ, then the

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Lord's not going to keep them in error for, for that long, because the Holy Spirit that resides in them is going to lead them out of this and reveal truth to him,

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I mean, to them, because that's what scripture says. So, just to give you guys, the people out there a little, little history on this, this, when it was, this is an

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American gospel right here, all right, this is an American gospel, and it started in the garden, but it really started again, and in the 1880s, there was something that started called

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New Thought, and it's an accumulated wisdom and philosophy, and from like ancient

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Greek, ancient Roman, and, and, and, you know, these, these, it's really a form of Gnosticism, all right, and, and then like in the, in the 50s and stuff like that, you had all the, the healing revivals that were going on here in the

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United States, then they, they, from the 60s to the 80s, that's when they adopted the, the name, the

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Word of Faith Movement, and this is when televangelism was really ramping up, and so it really appealed to the ignorant, and, and, and that's, and, and it's, it's a destructive heresies, like the, the

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Bible has told us, and it really appeals to man's sinful nature.

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It also, it's like a combination of the, the American gospel is more like pragmatism, individualism, you know, more of a, a man -centered instead of God -centered, unless it makes you a

36:06

God, and so what it, what it does is it takes the faith that, that has been, get that, that is a gift of God, all right, that this grace and this faith, that is a, a gift that is given to us by God to, to glorify

36:19

God, and it turns them into like a genie in a bottle, all right, where Jesus, and all of a sudden becomes a slot machine that we just keep putting coins in, and it's gonna hit,

36:32

I'm telling you, it's gonna get, it's gonna hit, thinking that, that somehow, and what it, what it is, it's, it's legalism, all right, it's, it's actually works -based, it's very, very works, it's very damning, it's, it's, it's a damnable heresy, and it's not

36:50

Christianity, all right, and, and let me, let me just, let me just share a couple scriptures that they have hilted, because I deal with this every day, all right, so one of them,

37:02

I think that, you know, Greg, you, you hit one of them, let's see, let me go to Jeremiah 29, 11, they always use this one, always, always and forever, you know, but this is what they say,

37:22

Jeremiah 29, 11, and then this is, this is what happens when, when people take scripture out of context, and then they, they, they just believe everything they hear, well, the, the reason why they believe it is, is because they're not a sheep, because they're, the, the, the, the sheep knows the shepherd's voice, and it goes to them, another they will not follow, all right, and so, anyway, so let me just read it,

37:52

Jeremiah 29, 11, for I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans of welfare and not for evil, to give you a fortune and a hope, then you will call upon me, and come and pray to me, and I will hear you, you will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart,

38:14

I will be found, be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes, and gather you from the nations, in all the places where I have driven you, now, a, a, a really, really important one, that, that, remember, they, they, they cherry pick the, the scriptures, so another really, really important one, that they will always get, and if you don't read it in context, and understand, um, listen, this right here, this, uh, wasn't written to you, it was written for you, all right, and that, that, when it's talking about like, when a lot of these promises were made to national

38:56

Israel, ethnic Israel, and it was for like land promises, or, or whatnot, you know, um, because a lot of these people, they, they, they want the blessings, all right, they, they just don't want the curses, you know, and for us now that are in Christ, um, there is no more condemnation, you know, and so, uh, another one,

39:20

I, and I'm just going off the top of my head, um, Deuteronomy, um,

39:25

Deuteronomy 8, 18, you know,

39:46

I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, um, yeah, hold on a second, uh,

39:59

I'm gonna start in 17, 8, 17, uh, beware lest you say in your heart, my power and my might of my hand have gotten me this well, you shall remember the

40:10

Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get well, when he may confirm his covenant that you swore to your fathers, as, as in this day, and they'll take that, and they will run with it, all right, they'll, they'll take that, and they'll run with it, and, and, and this is a twist in God's scripture, and, and were we warned about this?

40:33

Yeah, we have, uh, out of 27 books of the New Testament, 26 of them speak of this,

40:41

I mean, directly, 2 Peter 2, 1, I mean, like, just straight up,

40:54

I'll just, just read it, uh, 2, 1 through 4, uh, 2 Peter, uh, uh, 2, 1, but false prophets also run, uh, um, arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and we know that, um, if it's destructive, that means it destroys people, all right, destroys, even denying the master who bought them, and a lot of these people, uh, preach kenosis, by the way, or they're preaching the little doctrine, all right, so you're seeing the pattern already, but it gets better, or worse,

41:35

I should say, denying the master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction, and many will follow their sensuality, and because of them, the way of truth will be blasphemed, and in their greed, hello, in their greed, they will exploit you with false words, their condemnation for long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep, and so God warns us in his words that this is what we're to look out for, and, but they, they actually put a heavy emphasis on that you're actually sinning, all right, you're actually sinning if you, if you're not wealthy, and if you're sick, so that's an actual sin,

42:25

I have literally been in rooms where, um, I, where I used to take my guys here,

42:32

I'm not timing myself, so, um, I used to take my, my guys here, and you're right at the, at the mark,

42:39

I'm right at the mark of, yeah, yeah, I mean, go ahead and finish your thought, finish, okay, so, so I, I have been right there at these places where I've taken my guys, and, and, and I'm like, all right guys,

42:53

I'm gonna take you to a cult tonight, an actual real authentic cult, and I want you guys to pay attention, these are my students, you know,

43:03

I want you to pay attention to what's going on, and you tell me afterwards, all right, so me and my wife, we take them all in, and, uh, hear the guys up, and he's, he's, you know, an apostle, of course, it's called the shepherding movement, by the way, by Derek Prince, he started it in the 80s, and, uh, later renounced it, but anyways, he's declaring and decreeing, and he goes like this, now

43:25

God, now God, I want a Corvette, and you have to give it to me,

43:33

I want to go to Disneyland, or you have to give it to me, or you're a liar, and this is in, with tons of people in it right here, all right, and so we, we ended, we got up, and we left, they, they were doing the, you know, everybody's getting knocked over, filled with the, the, uh, uh, non -holy spirit, we asked our, all of our guys afterwards, what did you notice, what did you notice, they noticed all the right things, but the main thing was, is nobody had a

44:01

Bible, and that's where it comes down to, you will fall into this, if you don't know scripture, if you're not planted in the house of the

44:10

Lord, and you don't know the, the real thing, you're, you're gonna fall for the counterfeit, and you're gonna believe a lie, just like back at the garden,

44:20

Raiden, yeah, I love it, um, no, I just really appreciate what everyone has said already,

44:27

I really appreciate Jeff defining what the gospel is, and talking about there is not really another gospel, so when we say this prosperity gospel, we're not saying that this is another, we're saying that it's actually just a false good news, it's not really another, it's, it's actually terrible bad news, and, and brings about damnation into the person that's holding to it,

44:46

I appreciated Greg with all the scriptural references that he went into, and the, uh, truly the, the, the detestable thing it is to, to claim the prosperity gospel, and then with Haps, I, Haps, you,

45:01

I think, honestly have the most experience with this, with where you're at, and what you deal with on a daily basis,

45:07

I would say anyway, so I just very much value you guys, I, I think that in my mind, when we talk about the prosperity gospel movement,

45:16

I think when we talk about Christians giving, and, and receiving, or a pastor in that position, and making an income in that sense to support his family,

45:26

I think a lot of it has to deal with intent, and what the purpose is that's behind it, right, and so, yeah,

45:33

I was just going to read from 1 Timothy chapter 6 real fast, uh, verses 5, um, to 11,

45:41

I believe it is, but we'll, we'll read 1 Timothy chapter 6, verse 5, and on, it says, and constant friction between men, and of depraved mind, and of depraved truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain, so, so pay attention to the intent of these kind of men that think godliness is a means of gain, but godliness is actually a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment, for we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either, and if we have food, and covering with these, we shall be content, but those who want to get rich fall into temptation, and a snare, and many foolish, and harmful desires, which play men into ruin, and destruction, for the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some, by longing for it, have wandered away from the faith, and have pierced themselves with many a pain, but flee from these things, you men of god, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance, and gentleness, fight the good fight of faith, take hold of the eternal life, to which you were called, in which you, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses, and so,

47:10

I, I really, there, there was a text that I got to listen to, it was actually somebody that filled the pulpit for me recently, his name's

47:17

Rick, a really great brother of mine, he, we were going through the book of Ruth, and he pointed something out that I hadn't even taken really much notice of, and in that book, you see a really huge exhortation that it's never spoken of Ruth's beauty, it never says that she was a beautiful woman, but she's called a woman of excellence, and the reason that she was called a woman of excellence is because of her behavior, and likewise, you also see

47:42

Boaz, of this man of honor, and, and the descriptions of what he is, is one of giving, one of blessing, one of wealth, honestly, he, he had a field that, that Ruth was able to work in, he had maidens, he had servants there, he had wealth in that sense, but we also, when we talk about this kind of, this, this pastor's getting paid, and, and Christians accumulating wealth, it's not a bad thing to, to gain wealth, it's not, it really isn't, it's again, the intent, and the purpose behind what you are doing with it, and what the purpose and means of receiving it is, and, and I really loved how he went into this, as, as he looked at Boaz, and, and, and I'll, I'll just read a little portion here of this text, as we see

48:31

Boaz, this wealthy man, what does he do with his wealth, Ruth chapter three, after he promises to,

48:40

Boaz promises to Ruth that he's going to redeem her, he says here in, in verse 15 of chapter three, he says, again, he said, give me the cloak that is on you, and hold it out, so she held it out, and measured six measures of barley, and laid it on her, then she went into the city, and when she came to her mother -in -law, she said, how did it go, and she told her all the man had done for her, and she's, she's holding this cloak, this, this, this large sum of barley that was given to her, she's already been blessed very heavily by Boaz, and giving to her an

49:17

F of barley, is what's talked about earlier in the text, we see that Boaz is a man of wealth, that has accumulated, and has worked hard, and is building, essentially, this, this household name, essentially, with, with having workers underneath him, but yet he, he's giving, he's blessing, he's loving, and, and notice in there, he's not giving and saying,

49:42

I give you six measures of barley, so that I can get back 17 measures of barley, like Jeff talked about, that, that's not the intent of what

49:51

Boaz is doing in here, he's giving, because he loves, and he cares for, and he's wanting to bless, and so I think when we talk about intent, one of the very first applications that need to be made as Christians, is that Christians should be some of the most caring, loving, and giving type of people, and it's not wrong as a

50:06

Christian to accumulate wealth, it is wrong if you see the form of godliness as a means of gain, if you are, if you are preaching the, the gospel, if you're preaching on a stage, and you think that you can name it, and claim it, and that's the gospel to you, and you are doing that as a way that you can have a jet, a

50:29

Corvette, a hundred dollars being sent to you by some stranger that you're writing a letter to, shame on you, because you are taking a form of godliness, you are placing yourself above people, saying that you're a pastor, a teacher, an elder, an overseer, whatever title you have, and you are seeking a means of gain, and as the

50:50

Bible, as we already read there in First Timothy, pride, this, this, the, this greed is the, is the very root is of evil, it's ingrained into our flesh to, to want to receive, it's, it's, it's, look at me, give to me,

51:09

I want, and, and people know this, that, that's the,

51:14

I think the, the, the evil part about this, is these prosperity preachers know this, they know that people feel guilty when you lock the doors, and you say you're not allowed to leave until you give me, they, they know you feel guilty when they say you want, you want to be able to stand again from your terrible car accident you had five years ago, just give me five hundred dollars, and I'll, I'll bless you, and you'll stand, they play on these strings of emotion, and it's wrong, and it's evil, and not correct, and I think one, one thing that I know, that I have even grown up, this, this doesn't just, this doesn't even just affect the realm of physicality, right, that you, oh you give me, you will receive money, or you give me, and you'll receive health, right, there's, there's, there, there's many, many, many ways that cults, false religions, false teachers will take advantage of their people in different ways, not just physically, but one, one example that I grew up in was the

52:11

LDS teaching, right, what, what, what is their, their common saying, that is their kind of gospel, is the plan of happiness, the idea is, is that this world is a, is a plan of happiness for you, that all you have to do is join this church, and you have happiness, that you pay to this church, you come to our church, you're a member here, and you get even your own planet in the next life, you get this, this form of exaltation, this form of this, families can be together forever, that is a prosperity gospel, that is, it's a false gospel, it's not really another, right, there's not another, we know this, we already talked about it, but that's a form of prosperity preaching, when you're saying that you get this, and if it, by doing

53:01

X, Y, and Z, you've added, first of all, like I think Haps, you said, it's a form of legalism, it's a form of workspace salvation, which is often, almost always associated with any prosperity preacher, they also always have a false view of who

53:14

God is, especially right, right out of the gates, if you're preaching prosperity, you have a false view of God, and not only that, but usually they deny the

53:21

Trinity, and so, with these kind of cults that are guaranteeing you eternal life, based off of what you do, and what you give, that is, it is sincere abuse,

53:31

I think, first of all, because we understand the value of salvation and eternal life in Jesus Christ, right, we understand that it is everything, what

53:40

Christ has done for us is far beyond me getting that Corvette that I really want, it's so far beyond that,

53:48

I can't even fathom the preacher that would say, I'm going to want this, and then I have every right to this, and you need to give it to me, salvation that we've been given is unmerited favor, this grace that we have received, that goes far beyond any sort of dollar value that we can put into any of this, and that's the part that really irks me, is that when we go, when these, not we, when these other preachers are wanting to accumulate money, and is promising a false reality to the people that are giving it, you are attacking the very thing that Christ has done on the cross, you are making salvation not worth anything to these people, because you are trying to undervalue what

54:37

Christ has done for you, and that's where I would end it, is that I think that this is truly blasphemous against Christ, it's blasphemous against God, it's abusive to the sheep, it's abusive to the

54:49

Christian, it's abusive to even the unbeliever that's unknowing in this, it's abusive to these kind of people, and anybody that is caught in the prosperity movement, you need to repent, believe in the true gospel, the one and only, and if you are a preacher, and I hope, that would be so cool if Stephen Furtick listened to this, or Stephen Heretic, excuse me, or any of those bigger name guys that are preaching this kind of stuff, you need to repent, and you need to be placed under biblical discipline, and you need to know and look to Jesus Christ for your only means of salvation, because that is far, far better than any sort of wealth or money that you could get from anybody.

55:25

Yeah, well said. Victoria Osteen, we read a quote from her today, and I don't remember it verbatim, but it was in the line that God wants us to be happy, and the things that we do, we don't do it for God, we do it for our happiness, and that is even coming to church, coming to church, we don't come to church for God, we come to church so that we might be happy.

55:53

Yeah, like how false is that? Let me tell you something, there's days, you know, you know, whenever you want to church can be hard, right, especially, you know, family, little kids, getting there, you know, like, you know,

56:10

John Bunyan said that, you know, his greatest prayer had enough sin in it to send the whole world to hell, and God be just for doing so.

56:17

Just think about the car ride to church with a bunch of little kids, like how much sin in your life there do you have for the

56:25

God to send the whole world to hell, and him be just for it, right? It's just an idea, like we don't go to church to be no, but like that's not our reason.

56:35

If that was the reason, I wouldn't go to church, right? A lot of bad things happen on the way to church.

56:43

We go to church to worship God and to be with God's people, yeah, and perhaps you had a verse, and it really stuck out to me, and reminded me of a conversation

56:53

I had with my daughter, that verse from Deuteronomy chapter 8, verse 18 says, you shall remember the

57:01

Lord your God right here, for it is He who gives you the power to get wealth, so before we eat a meal at my house, we pray, and my daughter,

57:15

Trinity, asked me, she said, why do you thank God for the food?

57:22

You know, so I work at home, so she sees me in here working, and she knows that by my labor,

57:28

I receive wages, and so like she's just putting two and two together.

57:34

She sees daddy working, because of the work that I do, I receive wages, and that money that I receive from working buys food, right?

57:45

I mean, that's, you know, pretty smart. She's putting two and two together. She sees, oh, that's how we eat.

57:52

That's how we have a house. That's how that the bills are paid, but I had to remind her that it's, you know, everything that we do is in God's providence.

58:01

This breath of air I just took, you know. Some people might think it'd be stupid for me to, every time

58:07

I breathe, thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord, but it's true. God gave me. It's totally true, yeah.

58:13

You know, God has caused in my heart to beat. If He stops thinking about me, I die. Well, God has given me this job, and if God hasn't given me a way to provide for my family, the health it takes to do these things,

58:26

I wouldn't be able to provide for her, so I thank God for everything.

58:32

Everything that I have is by His hand, and so I'm just explaining that to her, and when he read that verse, it just reminded me of that, because it is

58:41

Him who gives us the power to get wealth, right? Well, how does someone get wealth?

58:47

Well, they work. They have a job. Like, that is a way that we recognize that in America, at least, that I, you know, and I tell this to my kids.

58:59

Every, you know, all my kids, everyone I know, when I was a kid, all my friends, everyone wants to grow up, but no one wants to pay bills, right?

59:10

Everyone wants to grow up, but no one wants to pay bills. In order to pay bills, you've got to have a job.

59:22

Well, it's the Lord, I believe, in His providence, it's the Lord that's caused me to have a job most of my life, to where I can work and buy things that I want and provide for my family.

59:35

Yeah, right, right. You know, and I had just this, you know, the conversation we had earlier,

59:43

Jeff, and Brayden's well aware that, you know, this past Sunday, I didn't know if that, you know, if that stuff was going to be taken away from me.

59:52

I ended up laying up in the hospital on Sunday, Monday. Praise the Lord, it was only for vertigo that I'd never had before, but I mean, there was those concerns that whether or not is

01:00:03

God, not only is He taking away my ability to work, but is

01:00:09

He taking away my life? And He's free to do, He's free to do that.

01:00:15

I'm His slave, He's my master. He paid my debt, and if, you know, if He was giving me an incurable brain cancer, who am

01:00:24

I to argue? But the thing is with the prosperity gospel, what this does is something like that happens, and you go, what have

01:00:34

I done? How have I sinned? Oh, if I don't get this, if I'm not healed of this because I named and claimed, well, but I didn't have enough faith.

01:00:43

Oh, I don't have enough faith. Well, then there's God love for me, and it's going to go over and over and over and over again when the reality is, guys,

01:00:54

God, it doesn't work that way. And when you're looking for a word outside of His word, you know, you're going to get confused.

01:01:06

It's going to get confuddled, and it's going to harm the sheep. And, you know,

01:01:12

I have a hard time with that. I really, really do.

01:01:18

I mean, somebody talks trash about my wife. I carry a gun with me at all times.

01:01:24

So if I feel that way about my bride, how does

01:01:33

Jesus feel about when His is being abused, and His word is being twisted? Oh, yeah. Oh, and that goes, honestly, without breaking down in front of you guys right now, we need to be as Christians focused on what we're going to church for.

01:01:50

We don't do this just out of habit. If you do it out of habit, don't come to church.

01:01:57

I'm sorry. You need to be coming to church to worship God, to fellowship, to sing, to learn, to feed, to be fed, to grow in Christ.

01:02:10

And if you're not going there for those reasons, don't come. And I know that that's harsh to hear that, but Christ is worthy to be heard.

01:02:24

He's worthy to be known. He's worthy to be praised. And if you're not doing that on a church

01:02:29

Sunday, then you don't have a right to be there. I mean, like, you know, the church is not for lost people.

01:02:36

The church is for the gathering of the saints. Yes. All right. I mean, let's make that crystal clear, right?

01:02:42

Yeah. You don't go to church to evangelize. You go to church to worship God. Now, I believe all of us, if I'm not mistaken,

01:02:50

Greg, you as well, we do street ministry, right? We as Christians, as ministers, we leave the church doors, and we preach the gospel to the lost.

01:03:03

When we gather on the Lord's day to worship, it's for the saints. The saints gather to worship

01:03:10

God and to fellowship with one another. Now, of course, we hope that lost people come, but we can't, you know, build our service around what they want.

01:03:21

We build our service around what God has asked for. Yep. And you know what?

01:03:28

It's, if I could just throw on a couple of things real fast. We're not coming to the

01:03:36

Lord so that we can get something. No. We're not serving the Lord so that we can get something.

01:03:42

We're not going to church so that we can get something. We go to worship God, and that's what it is.

01:03:50

We go to worship God. We go to worship together. We go to partake of the Lord's supper, but we go to worship

01:03:56

God. It's not man -centered. It's God -centered, and we're pursuing holiness, not happiness, therefore happiness does come from our happiness, our joy.

01:04:09

Everything comes from God, of course, but it's not through materialism or through our health.

01:04:16

I know that in my bad health, I have drawn closer to the Lord, and he's, you know, same thing with my wife.

01:04:26

You know, I'll just end it right here. You know, I heard this story. I mean,

01:04:32

Jeff, you hit it so right on the head right there about the church being for believers because I was reading this article the other day, and it blew me away, and it was this evangelist, and he was talking about how,

01:04:46

I think it was over in Iran or Afghanistan or something like that, but there was a, he was preaching at a,

01:04:55

I don't know, it wasn't Iran, but it was a Muslim country, and he was preaching at the pulpit, and at the very end, he gave an altar call, and then afterwards, he noticed nobody got up, nobody did nothing.

01:05:12

Afterwards, the whole congregation came up to him and said, what, why'd you do that? And he goes, well, in case somebody wanted to hear the gospel, and they go, well, that's why we're here.

01:05:25

We died with him in baptism. You know, why would somebody come in, and that twisted my cat back right there.

01:05:35

Yeah. That, I was like, man, we got it all backwards over here in America. Yeah, one of my congregants,

01:05:43

Robert Bracewell, he goes out and knocks on doors with me, and he said something this past week.

01:05:51

We're not called to invite lost people to church. They don't want to come to church.

01:05:58

Why would they want to come to church? That's not what we're called to do. We're called to preach the gospel, and if we preach the gospel and God regenerates them, guess where they're going to go?

01:06:10

To church. Church, yeah. Yeah, the shepherd has laid his life down for the sheep, and the sheep will know his voice, and he has other sheep that he too has to gather, and they will become one flock with one shepherd, right?

01:06:24

He is that great shepherd, and his sheep will hear his voice, and what a great privilege it is to be a heralder of that good news, to be the one to take that to the world.

01:06:38

What a privilege it is, but church is for the sheep.

01:06:43

It is. It's centered around worshiping God from the mouth of the buying sheep.

01:06:50

That's what it needs to be. That's what it has to be, right?

01:06:56

Well, hey, guys, I got to get going. I got to go have dinner. Get your grub on.

01:07:03

I'm going to get my grub on. We'll probably carry on for a few more minutes. Perhaps it was good to fellowship with you, man.

01:07:10

I love you, brother. I love you guys, man. And we'll definitely see you on the text chat group.

01:07:17

Oh, yeah, yeah, and I'm going to show you my next tattoo. I'm getting you guys. You're going to like it.

01:07:23

What tattoo? What? What? Yeah. You want to get an open earth eulogy on you? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

01:07:29

Oh, that's hilarious. I want to get the bull horn. Tri -tip taco. And a tri -tip taco, you know, and I'm going to have a tri -tip taco, one hand, and that bull horn in the other.

01:07:42

Ah, all right, guys. God bless you. Remember, guys, to glorify God and enjoy him forever.

01:07:48

Amen. Late. Amen. And what I was saying to your point,

01:07:55

Braden, about the heralding, you know, maybe

01:08:03

I just take it so personally, you know, being a herald and then to have false prophets get out there and run their mouths, you know, and, you know, that's why

01:08:17

I look at Nicholas and, you know, what he did to Arius and you go, I understand, you know, and, you know, sometimes you would, you know,

01:08:31

I wish that the Lord would pop this false prophets in the mouth and shut them close because they, because it is truly destructive heresies that then abuse the church.

01:08:54

And then when the gathered body comes together, that then as a, you know, as a pastor, you're having to sit there and correct, you know, just something that's just so off.

01:09:04

Like, I wish it was something like we, you know, we're just dealing with discussing discussions about eschatological issues.

01:09:12

You know, if that was it, it would be nice because, you know, we can have fun with that.

01:09:17

And, you know, there would be, you know, some stuff like that. But when you're talking this, this sort of trash,

01:09:24

I mean, it is, it is the vomit of swine. Yeah.

01:09:30

And to quote, to quote a dear, dear, dear brother of mine, who

01:09:37

I look forward to seeing at the feet of Jesus one day. He said, when we were discussing in the book of John about people that disagreed with something to quote him on this, slap him in the face with the

01:09:51

Bible. Like that, that there's sometimes that as a

01:09:57

Christian, I feel like St. Nick in that sense was justified.

01:10:03

You know, not to get off a topic, but I see Greg stroking his beard and I see me stroking my beard and I see you over there playing with your, what is this?

01:10:15

Soul patch. It's a soul patch. It's because I got a lot of soul. Stroking his soul patch.

01:10:22

All right. We got the curls going on. All right. There you go.

01:10:28

That's good. I got mine. Actually, that was pretty damn. Yeah, I need it. Yeah. Yep.

01:10:33

So I'm going to need you to make me some mustache wax. Okay. It ain't happening.

01:10:39

I'll send you some, bro. Send me some, man. I got you. Send me some. Because I've been growing a good stash and I got to do something with it.

01:10:48

I will send you some. It'll be a trial product and then we need to go into business together selling it. So let's do it.

01:10:55

I already got the, we'll call it heresy because it's only here that you can see. And then, yeah, we'll, yeah, let's do it.

01:11:04

I'll send, I'll send you some though, for sure, bro. Yeah. I really, I really could use it. I mean, say that I might have to try something.

01:11:11

No, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't, don't do something else. I got you some. Don't worry. I'll make you some here in the next couple of days.

01:11:18

In fact, I'm going to put a reminder on the phone right now. So I think we'll shut down with that.

01:11:25

And let's just end with talking about the conference that's coming up, which is going to be, you know, which

01:11:32

Greg, are you going to try to make it? I'm hoping to. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a look at it.

01:11:39

Yeah. And I'm going to try to find something for you to, to do.

01:11:46

Going over the schedule has been really tough. And now I have to get a,

01:11:52

I have to actually, which I was telling Brayden and Haps earlier, I have to, you know, officially make

01:11:59

Open Air Theology a ministry on paper, right? In order to have this conference,

01:12:05

I have to get a 5013C. I have to get a bank account for Open Air Theology. So, you know, dealing with that, dealing, you know, trying to get, you know, the speakers that I've already asked, waiting for them to respond.

01:12:21

And, and, and, and a lot of it's going through email and I hate email.

01:12:26

Like, like just like, let's text, right. Or let's have a conversation. Right.

01:12:34

Samantha asks, is the conference going to be on end times? No, but I love to have a conference on end times.

01:12:40

The conference is going to be based on Ephesians chapter four, dealing with the truths.

01:12:48

So in Ephesians chapter four, we have, let me see if I can quote it in order. We have one body, one spirit, one hope, one

01:13:01

Lord, one faith, one baptism, one

01:13:06

God. I think I got it all. Did I forget any? Sounds right. The seven truths.

01:13:15

And then we're also going to be basically looking at the book of Ephesians as a whole.

01:13:24

So every one of them that I just named, except for one are implicit.

01:13:30

You can find, you know, find it in the book of Ephesians, except for one that I'm going to be speaking on, one baptism.

01:13:36

It's in there, but it's explicit. And I hope to reveal that, that day.

01:13:42

But we also want to look at chapter one, dealing with the covenant of redemption. And we may, we may do something with chapter five, talking about the flesh and blood.

01:13:53

Not sure yet, trying to, you know, trying to figure everything out, but we do want to have a lot of time to where we can hang out.

01:14:01

And we plan on having an after party, which that'll take place Friday night. So we're trying to set up a debate with James White.

01:14:10

And we're trying to set up a debate. We're trying to find someone that's willing to debate James White, particularly on, on King James only.

01:14:22

Yeah. King James only ism. Yeah. He, he's open for other things, but, but I think it would need to be on the topics that he, he deals with.

01:14:31

So we'll see what we need to do one with like Mormonism and we'll get like two, we'll just scour

01:14:40

Tennessee until we find two missionaries. We'll bring them on over and then James and I can sit down.

01:14:46

Yeah. And everybody else will just awkwardly look at them as we all debate. Like if we couldn't, like, if James wasn't coming,

01:14:55

I was going to try to, if James wasn't coming, I was going to try to, to see if I can find a

01:15:01

Presbyterian to debate me on baptism, but yeah, but James is coming. So we're trying to find someone to debate him.

01:15:07

Yeah. But, but at this conference, we will announce the next, because we plan on having one a year and we'll probably have something else throughout the year concerning like with local evangelists and stuff like, because I want to be able to invite evangelists to the church and do evangelism training, teach people how to, you know, like the, you know, the principles of preaching the gospel in the open air and witnessing one -on -one.

01:15:41

And so it'd be nice to have, you know, I'll reach out to some evangelists that I know to come and help me, help me with that.

01:15:48

But yeah, but anything y 'all like to say on, on, on the subject of the conference,

01:15:55

I'll tell you, man, I'm so excited every, every night I'm dreaming about, I don't bend to the conference five times.

01:16:04

No, I'm so excited for the fellowship is going to be outstanding. I think the preaching is going to be

01:16:13

God glorifying. And I just, I cannot wait for it.

01:16:20

If anybody's watching this right now, I know that it's at the end of the pod or the show, not the podcast, whatever we want to call it.

01:16:27

It's at the end of the show. So usually people start dropping off, but you need to be there. It's going to be so much fun.

01:16:34

It's going to be wonderful. I seriously cannot wait for it. Yeah.

01:16:39

I mean, just the, the, the hanging out, like, like I have a lot of schedule hangouts. I mean, we're going to be hanging out.

01:16:46

Like there's a, a part will, you know, for those that smoke, you can go, we have a really nice cigar shop here in town and we, yeah, go ahead.

01:16:56

Sorry. No, I was going to say, we're going to go to the, we're going to go do evangelism, like every single day. Like this is going to be so much fun.

01:17:04

Yeah. And we're going to, you know, like rent out a restaurant and we're going to, you know, have a, have a, you know, a

01:17:11

Psalm singing at a restaurant and Psalm reading, like, like it's going to be so good. And Samantha is going to be three days, the 17th through the 19th.

01:17:21

So Thursday, Friday and Saturday. And, you know, I would say, how's it looking for, you know, families, you know, and bring it, bringing the kids along.

01:17:33

Okay. So kids will be free, but, but, but, but if you're an adult or old enough to understand, then you'd have to pay for the kids, but small kids will be free.

01:17:44

What happens if my, my, my three -year -old really wants to come and I don't want to go, but I'm just going to have to accompany him.

01:17:53

I'll say that again. Do I still have to pay? I'm just, I'm messing with you. I'm messing with you.

01:17:59

You lost me. I'm messing with you. I'm messing with you. And let me answer

01:18:04

Samantha again. Samantha. Yeah. Just reach out to me and we'll take care of it. Yeah. Yeah.

01:18:10

But it's going to be fun. I mean, again, the guys that I have speaking now are people that I listen to.

01:18:20

And, you know, someone had mentioned that a lot of the guys that I have are people that they don't know.

01:18:27

Well, that's the point. Yeah. Um, I think if you, if you, if you keep only listening to the guys, you know, that, you know, you know, that are very popular, that everyone knows, like you just getting the same thing over and over.

01:18:44

My favorite preachers are the ones that I, you know, are really that no one knows.

01:18:51

Right. Like I, I listened to pastor, uh, Braden constantly when he, when he posted something,

01:18:57

I listened to him preach and I, I feast on that. Now, of course, you know,

01:19:03

James White. I love James White. I listened to all of his stuff. Him and I become, you know,

01:19:09

I wouldn't say he probably wouldn't say that we're friends. I might say we're friends, but, you know, but I'm also trying to get some other guys that, you know, that are well -known, but, but the guys that I listened to the most would

01:19:20

Braden would be, uh, uh, uh, Claude. Claude is, is, is a fantastic preacher.

01:19:28

Oh, yeah. I mean, just listening to him, man, it makes me think, man, do I even have a heart?

01:19:34

That's right. I'm right there with you. I think the exact same thing, you know, and then happy, like, you know,

01:19:40

I listened to him preach all the time and I got my friend, John, uh, also he's a fantastic preacher.

01:19:47

He's young. He, he, he's so knowledgeable. He's so passionate for God. And then, and also

01:19:54

Brandon, Brandon Scout, you know, Brandon Scout is an amazing, amazing preacher.

01:20:01

You know, these are guys that I, that I listened to. And, and so, um,

01:20:07

I haven't been able to hear Greg preach. I don't, I don't know if he has anything out there that he could send me.

01:20:13

You can go onto the Valley Baptist website and go just before Braden. You know, he actually fit, he finished my series for me.

01:20:21

Oh, look at John. Yeah. I just started the gospel of John. I'm still in chapter one.

01:20:28

I mean, I guess the money of a profit. I can let you know that the back half is really good because I got to preach throughout.

01:20:34

I know the front half is good too, but I didn't get to preach on it. So, so right now I'm waiting for Jeffrey Johnson to message me back.

01:20:42

He, he might be coming to speak. And he, he's, he's, uh, you know, he has a seminary.

01:20:48

He's an author. Like, you know, there's going to be guys that, you know, and then guys that you don't know.

01:20:53

And I'm telling you, do not sleep on the guys that you don't know. Yeah. Right. I mean,

01:20:59

I mean, these are guys that are laboring in the Lord, just like everyone else. And, um, and to be honest with you, there's some of my favorite preachers.

01:21:07

I mean, I do listen to the big name people, but for the most part, I listen to people that no one knows.

01:21:15

I mean, the thing is, I'll say this, I've had a very interesting, and I've said this, like when

01:21:20

I go and do pulpit supply, I've had a very interesting experience, uh, with doing pulpit supply all over the place.

01:21:28

I've gone as, you know, super far North in Idaho, uh, to North, you know, to Northern Nevada.

01:21:35

I've preached around here that one of the experiences I, that I've had in the, and I'm going to apply this to what you're saying here,

01:21:43

Jeff, is that by going to these different church,

01:21:49

I'm reminded like that Jesus said he would build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

01:21:59

And you know what? He hasn't stuttered and it's still happening.

01:22:04

And when you've got, you know, these guys that nobody's heard of, you know what, you know who has heard of him,

01:22:11

King Jesus. That's right. And these are the men that he has raised up for his people in those locations.

01:22:18

And that these men are going to be, they're held just as accountable to Jesus as James White, as John MacArthur, as R .C.

01:22:30

Sproul, you know, and they're going to be likewise rewarded as well.

01:22:39

And I mean, there's, it's, it's just, you know, having those no -name preachers, you know what, that's, that's how

01:22:48

Jesus functions. Yeah. And one more that I forgot to mention. It's all about him.

01:22:55

Yep. Yeah. And one more, I forgot to mention, I don't know why I did, but Anthony Mathena, Paul Washer's pastor.

01:23:04

Yeah. I mean, just, just think about, you know, he has to preach to Paul Washer on a weekly basis.

01:23:10

What an intimidating. Oh yeah. And so he's going to be preaching the one

01:23:19

God, you know, listen, don't miss that message. I mean, you're talking about a man of God, man, like, you know, he's one of those guys, you know,

01:23:30

I mean, he's been a pastor for a long time. You know, when I have questions or something, you know,

01:23:36

I reach out to my brothers that I'm, you know, Braden, we have a text message group.

01:23:43

When I travel outside of that group, I'm reaching out to my old pastor.

01:23:49

I'm reaching out to Anthony, you know, guys that I know, like the people that are going to be at this conference speaking.

01:23:57

These are guys that I reach out to. Yeah. You know, like, like I, Brandon, listen,

01:24:04

Brandon is, listen, everyone, the guys that are going to be coming, we all disagree with each other on certain things.

01:24:12

Like, I want to point that out to you. Viminently so. Viminently so. We disagree on stuff, but, but I want to show that, you know, despite disagreements, we can have unity.

01:24:22

We can love our brothers. Yeah. Right. You know, I mean, like there's things that I just thought like, you see me and Braden debate all the time and when we're doing it, you would think, man, do they really love each other?

01:24:35

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. You show me somebody that's a boxer, but he's never been in a ring with someone outside of pads.

01:24:48

I'm not saying he's not a boxer. Yeah. Listen, growing comes with pushing and pulling.

01:24:54

Yep. You need a wrestler. It can only be a wrestler if he's got someone in front of him, an opponent, right?

01:25:02

He's pushing and pulling. If all he's doing is picking up a bag and throwing it, it's not a wrestler.

01:25:09

No. A boxer without an opponent, he's a shadow boxer. He's an air guitarist, right?

01:25:16

He's playing the air drums. Like, what are you doing? And so it's good to have people that you disagree with, but especially in times like this at this conference, because every one of us are going to be, there's going to be some things that we see different.

01:25:33

And I think that's good. And I know that every one of us, if God was to say, hey, you got this wrong, we would fix it.

01:25:42

Oh, absolutely. We would change our belief. Immediately. Immediately. Yep. But the whole idea is that even though we disagree with each other, we love each other in this conference.

01:25:52

Like, if you come to this conference, you're going to be in a room filled with people that agree and disagree with you, but still love you.

01:26:02

I think that's important. Absolutely. I think that's a perfect way to end today.

01:26:10

I love you guys. Greg, I love you. Haps, I know you're not here any longer. I love you. Love you, Haps. Love you,

01:26:16

Greg. Love you, Greg. I love you guys. Thanks, man. Any last words? Love you guys.

01:26:26

All right, everybody, y 'all stay home. As always, I hope y 'all get to come to the conference.

01:26:33

If you're in Tallahoma, come check out the Reformed Baptist Church. I mean, excuse me, Covenant Reformed Baptist Church.

01:26:40

Love to have you. I'd love to minister to you in any way that I can. Outside of that, hallelujah, hollaback.