Good Faith Love Fest at the End - (Finale)

Okay, we're going to finish this double upload day just to get this done and after we're done, we will never speak of it again.

Let's finish this. Times from doing racial justice, because there's this even when you want to do it,

I have to be on the defense because I can't give an inch to the other side. And so these ideologies and parties do stop us,

I think, on both sides from doing all the things we need to do. We could say that we could have that conversation with Democrats when it comes to abortion.

I do all the time, but we have to step out of that and be more biblical. I'm going to ask you a different question.

You were talking about, and I hope I quote you correctly, identifying with Christ above our ethnicities.

Is that an accurate statement? Well, yeah. So obviously our identification in Christ is our greatest identification, but might we be at risk of losing, of flattening our racial and ethnic identities in doing that?

Might we be at risk of seeing everybody in a colorblind way? Because when we look at Revelation, it seems like there is every tribe, tongue, and nation.

It seems like ethnicity is something that goes into the new heaven and new earth. You're talking about a doctrine of ethnicity here, which

I don't think for most people they've kind of defined or filled out. I think it's something that we all need to think well about.

When you say flattened, the church is intended to be the showcase of a new ethnicity of people.

He made a new man in place of the other ones, not just goes on top of the other ones, it's in place of.

They're to have a complete and exhaustive re -identification. So much so that Paul would say, here, there's not that or this.

So there is a degree to which we desperately, I think, need to think well about what it means to live out the new ethnicity we have in the

Lord Jesus. And it's part of, I think, a solution in terms of how we understand how to have certain conversations about racial matters, at least in the church today.

So yeah, I don't think we're in danger of flattening our ethnicity right now. I think we're in danger of over -promoting it.

There was a time where people used to even just like talking about racial reconciliation.

People don't even like talking that way anymore because they're afraid they're going to lose part of them.

And just the Bible does not talk that way about ethnicity. Who we are is not bound up in our ethnicities in the flesh.

God has so redefined us by hiding us in his Son. So actually, he surprised me.

And I think he might have, he's given me something to think about. You know, this is the first time this has happened in these good faith debates.

I honestly think he's on to something there. What he said was, and again,

I don't think he's saying that your identity in Christ erases your ethnicity or whatever.

He's not saying that. But he is saying that it does replace it a lot more than we think.

And at the end there, what I'm saying, he gave me something to think about, is that he said, you know,

I really don't think we're in danger of under -emphasizing our ethnicity and nationality.

If anything, we're in danger of over -emphasizing it. And he basically is saying, that's really not the ditch that we're close to falling in right now.

And I gotta say that that's a pretty interesting point. I have to think it through, but I like that.

I like that. That's actually pretty interesting. Man, Brian Davis, you know,

I was probably harder on Brian Davis than I've been on almost anybody else in this, maybe except for Sean DeMars.

I was pretty hard on Sean. Oh man.

Then the gun debate guy, I was pretty hard on him too. I don't know, but I was pretty hard on Brian. But he said a couple things that I gotta say wholeheartedly either agree with or, at least now, he's giving me something to think about here.

So Brian, hats off to you. I'm not gonna take my hat off because I would have to take my headphones off first.

But man, no, that's an interesting one. I'm gonna let him finish and we're gonna keep listening. I'm sure Justin's gonna really hate that answer.

So if Justin gets to respond to that, he's gonna probably try to tear that up. But hats off to you,

Brian. Thank you so much, Pastor Davis. I definitely think that that needs to be further developed.

I don't think it's in danger of flattening our ethnic ideas. We're in danger of actually promoting them too much. Very interesting.

I like that. Tell me what you think about that point in the comment section below. Because I actually think that our identity in Christ, of course, it's primary.

It's more than our ethnicity and our identity and our nationalities or whatever it is.

But I don't think, I mean, I do think there's everything good about enjoying the fact that you're a certain ethnicity and keeping the traditions alive, so to say.

Of course, as long as they're in line with the scripture and not contradicting the scripture. But yeah, no, that's interesting one,

Brian. Again, hats off to you. Justin, many people who have engaged in this conversation have become disenfranchised with the

American church. And that could take many, many different forms.

Leaving the church altogether, leaving the faith, just not going to church anymore, cell movements, returning to the historic

African American church, whatever it is. But what do you say to them?

What keeps you in this conversation, in a room like this? Because I don't want to be

Jonah. I want to make sure that I'm reaching out to people and having these conversations because I think the church is one.

We do need to come together. And I will always be hopeful for that. I think we have to be hopeful for that. And then I would also say to them that when the church failed, it wasn't because the church was being too biblical or too orthodox.

It's because it wasn't being biblical enough. And that if we're really going to change something, you got to get in there and make sure change.

That doesn't mean people can never go to a different church or things like that. But we have to have hope. We don't mourn people who don't know

Christ. We have to have hope and we have to believe that things can change. That's the story of the civil rights movement.

That's the story of many things. Some of these things are going to be around for a while. I still think we have to have a sense of urgency and a belief that the things can change if we believe our

God is as strong as we say. We're running out of time. I want to finish with - Good answer. I mean, that's what keeps me in the fight.

To be honest, and I think I've been open about this throughout the life of this channel.

But I keep thinking about my exit strategy for this kind of a content that I'm doing. And I still think there's a need for it.

But I often think, have I said enough? I think I've made my point.

I think it might be time. To stop. But I get messages from you guys all the time and in situations at your specific churches and confusion over a new strategy for scheme is really what it is these shysters like to use and stuff.

And so I keep doing the content and I agree. I've often thought about myself, I really don't want to be

Jonah. If this is the platform I have, if this is the one trick pony that God has given me, then

I'm not going to reject that. So I get it, man.

I get it. It's not that I'm frustrated. I mean, my church is wonderful.

I enjoy the fellowship. I serve at that church. And so that's the thing.

You can get frustrated to the point where you leave your church. I don't know.

I don't even really know the point I'm trying to make. So I'm rambling at this point. Let's continue. One question for both of you.

What is the most compelling thing your opponent has said tonight to you?

It's a very good faith. Good faith move. I don't mind this question. I mean, it's a debate.

But I'll answer for both of them. I think that last thing that Brian Davis said, clearly that's the most compelling thing that he said.

That we're definitely not in danger of under -emphasizing our ethnicity in our culture and our time.

That's a good one. I like that. I like that. So I'll be thinking that through probably for the next few days.

And then Justin, here's the thing. He's inverted justice and morality in many instances.

And so in that regard, I've got nothing but contempt for what Justin has said. He says the word biblical a lot, and he'll provide biblical references to certain passages and things like that.

And that's good. But the problem is that he's subverting the message that is taught in those passages.

And this is something that liberals in the church have done for a long time. In fact, I did a video once about a

Tim Keller article about social justice. And there was one in particular, one quotation where he said something about paying unfair wages and how unfair wages are against the scripture.

And he provides a biblical reference. He doesn't quote the verse. He just gives you the reference. And so I went to that reference to see what he's talking about.

Because I know that the Bible doesn't determine what unfair wages are. I know that. I've read the

Bible numerous times. And the quotation that he was referencing was about stealing.

It was about a situation where you promised someone you would pay him a certain amount of money to do a certain job.

And then when the time came for him to get paid, you didn't pay him anything.

You said, hey, mow my lawn for 10 bucks. He mows your lawn. And you say, I'm going to keep the 10 bucks.

What are you going to do about it? That's not what we're talking about when we're talking about unfair wages in our culture.

So Tim Keller was lying to you in that article. But he referenced a verse, so now it has authority because he's, oh, it's a

Bible verse. It's got to be true. But he subverted the meaning of those verses. And so Justin Gibney engages in the same thing.

The reparations verses that he provided, they actually show you exactly why reparations, as it's talked about today, is unbiblical.

They show you exactly why. But he quoted it as if it supported reparations. He's a shyster.

That's what shysters do. So I've got nothing but contempt for his ultimate message. However, his passion for for the

Christian being engaged in more than just the life of the church as an institution, right?

Because the church has the keys of the kingdom, right?

And so the church, the elders in the church, they're supposed to be preaching the gospel. They're supposed to be making disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the

Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, distributing the elements of the Lord's Supper. They're supposed to be engaged in that kind of thing.

And so they're determining who's in the kingdom and who's out of the kingdom. That's their job. They've got the keys to the kingdom.

But so many Christians assume that that's the end of the discussion for the life of a

Christian. And Justin is insisting, no, it isn't. Christians should be active in other parts of their lives.

And this is obvious. I mean, we know this instinctively when we go to work every day, right?

Because we have jobs, most of us, that aren't in ministry, right? They're not involved in the keys of the kingdom.

We're plumbers, we're recruiters, we do various types of work, police officers, whatever it is.

So we know we have a life besides that of the church. We're still

Christians in those things, though. Like, I have to be a recruiter Christianly, right? Police officers have to be a police officer

Christianly. They have to do it according to God's moral law and his commands and things like that.

And that's true for government as well, and the way we engage in government. See, the government has a separate—I'm going to do a video responding to Andrew T.

Walker's criticism of the Christian Nationalism book by Torba and Boniface Option. And one of the critiques that he made was sort of like, well, it kind of doesn't really emphasize some of these spiritual realities.

But that's not what the book was about, though. Like, every time we engage in political sort of governmental things, the government is not an instrument of grace.

If you want to get saved, that's what—the church is there to preach that gospel, to do the evangelism, to baptize in the name of the

Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. Like, that's why the church is there. The government is an instrument of wrath, not grace.

We need to understand that. To govern Christianly is to use that government as an instrument of wrath, not grace.

Grace is dispensed through Jesus Christ and his church. Wrath is dispensed—the wrath of God is dispensed through the civil governing authority.

That's its job. It's not there to distribute grace. And so if we're going to judge—if we're going to rule and reign, and the

Bible says we will, Christianly, the government has the sword, not the keys to the kingdom.

The sword. And so that's the thing. And so Justin is essentially saying that, and I agree with that.

I agree with that. So let's hear what these guys say is the most compelling—well, yeah, let's go.

Editing AD here. So I think I need to clarify something. So Justin was saying that you should be a

Christian in your politics and government life, in addition to your church life and all of that.

He wasn't saying that the government should just be an instrument of wrath. That's what he should be saying, but because he's subversive, he's saying, yeah, you need to be a in government, but also that means dispensing grace in the government as well, and mercy, and charity, and stuff like that.

And so I'm commending him saying you need to be a Christian everywhere you are, and that includes—the government does not exclude it.

The Great Commission doesn't exclude your life as a civil governing authority. You need to be a disciple, obeying

Christ in everything, in every area. But I have contempt for the way he's subverting that message, because that part of it is true, but the part that's not true is that the government should be dispensing these mercy missions, and charity, and stuff like that.

No, the government is only to be a deacon of God and dispensing the wrath of God using the sword that God gave it.

So just to clarify that, so I like the main idea, but the problem is that he's subversive in the details.

I hope that's clear. I'll start with you.

Okay. No, I think he makes a very good point just about—I think what he's getting at is kind of the identity idolatry, where we're too far into our ethnicity.

I don't think that we have to push away our ethnicity to be a part of the church or forget that to be one, but I do think identity idolatry has become an issue where we're putting our identity up far higher than it should be and making—almost deifying it in ways that it can't withstand and that eventually hurts us.

That's good. You know, I said that Justin and I probably have similar personalities, and he said that he picked the same thing that I picked, and it's interesting that he agrees with that.

That's interesting. I think two things. One, I was just struck and appreciative of just God's grace and the strength to speak against what you think is unfaithful to God's Word.

I think a call to be about doing that courageously and in as many instances as we can see it.

I thought he modeled that well and desired to do that well. I also think just the lean into what's possible in the

Lord. It's a wonderful thing to remember that what's impossible with man is possible with God.

I think it's a great encouragement. Well, brothers, I'll tell you what. Actually, that's a good point, too, because as much as, again,

I oppose his message—he's got an upside down morality so often—I do appreciate the belief that God can work mighty miracles and things like that.

A lot of people are criticizing Christian nationalism these days and saying, well, you guys are so small. You guys are way too small to affect change.

They might be right, but the thing is you hit what you aim for. You hit what you aim for.

I think as Christians, even though we're small—we're not as small as we think we are, by the way, so that's number one—but even though we are small, we ought to be aiming for a

Christian government, a government that rules and reigns Christianly, a government that distributes the wrath of God according to God's law.

That's what we should be aiming for, because you hit what you aim for. So we might not be able to see how we can get that done now, but we need to be thinking ahead.

We need to be forward -looking. We need to be futurists in that way. We need to always remember that he who is with us is greater than he who is in the world.

We're never in the minority when the Lord of glory, the King of kings, the Lord of Lord, the one who created every single thing that was created, he's on our side.

In any case, that is the end of this debate. God bless you all. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you got some value out of it, and well,