March 24, 2021 Show with Virgil Walker on “How Woke is the Southern Baptist Church?”

Iron Sharpens Iron

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:04

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

00:10

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

00:23

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

00:31

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

00:38

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

00:50

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions and now here's your host

00:59

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

01:10

Cumberland County Pennsylvania Lake City Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com

01:20

This is Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 24th day of March 2021 and I am absolutely thrilled to have back on the program someone who

01:35

I have thoroughly enjoyed meeting and interviewing in the past. Most of my listeners will recall his name as being one of two hosts of the

01:46

Just Thinking podcast that he co -hosts with Darrell Bernard Harrison and he is also the newly appointed executive director of operations at G3 Ministries and today we are going to be addressing the very controversial theme how woke is the

02:05

Southern Baptist Convention how a denomination which was purged of liberalism returned to poison itself from the very same well and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Virgil Walker.

02:18

Well it is my honor to be with you Chris and happy to be here with you half of the dynamic duo

02:25

I don't I don't mind half of the dynamic duo it's always it's always fun doing these kinds of interviews with my co -host

02:35

Darrell Harrison of Just Thinking and but I'm having to figure out with this new role this new title as executive director of operations for G3 Ministries how to kind of navigate some spaces and places on my own so this is this is one of those and so I'm honored to test to do a test run here of that with you so glad to be with you.

02:57

Great well why don't you for those few listeners I'm sure listening to this program who are unfamiliar with Just Thinking I'm sure the vast majority of my listeners are very familiar with it but you never know how many are listening who are even new to the

03:14

Christian faith as I do have on occasion they email me those who are new

03:19

Christians and also those who are not Christians at all we have people from all kinds of religions and atheists and so on who listen but tell our listeners about the

03:28

Just Thinking podcast. Yeah the Just Thinking podcast is the brainchild actually of one

03:35

Dwayne Atkinson. Dwayne Atkinson is the executive producer for Just Thinking he's over the bar network a network of podcast

03:43

Christian podcast and the like and the Just Thinking for myself is the blog of Darrell Harrison.

03:50

Darrell has been writing for eight years or more probably closer to a decade on his own about issues relating to culture, politics, economics and the like and all of those things seem through the lens of a biblical worldview so Darrell and I about three years ago got together through a chance meeting through our executive producer

04:13

Dwayne and Dwayne had called me after an interview and said listen I think this guy and you have a lot in common and I know you've got some radio experience he's a writer maybe you guys could get together and make things work and that long story short after some cajoling on the part of myself and Dwayne because Darrell just was not really thinking that he had the chops for doing speaking he really has a writing gift and sure enough as we began to work together that ability to speak on the fly and to really articulate issues of the culture with the same dynamic kind of force that he has in writing actually began to play itself out in our podcast since that time through a number of different issues as we've looked at culture we have had the great benefit of speaking with crystal clarity from a biblical worldview about issues of race issues of in the culture and we've kind of begun to be seen as a go -to for some of those issues particularly as things kind of heated up in the summer of 2020 with the

05:32

George Floyd the Breonna Taylor and all those other incidents with CRT on the horizon as well we continue to be a resource for a lot of folks and so Just Thinking the

05:44

Just Thinking podcast you can find it at justthinking .me justthinking .me

05:49

you can download or anywhere you download your apple spotify or wherever you get your your podcast information from you can get that it i'll say this lastly two things one is that it is a long form podcast so if you're expecting to kind of listen to something in 20 minutes and be done this is not that we really spent a great deal of time unpacking scripture explaining with with clear definitions the issues of culture so it is a it's known as a long -form podcast so we can go two hours two and a half hours and the latest episode we just did on CRT went three and a half hours wow it is a yeah it is it is a lengthy long -form podcast we unpack all of the information we want it to be each episode to be a standalone episode on a particular subject so if you wanted to really understand the nature and depth of something like critical race theory you have it all there in one podcast episode now what most people do with that Chris is they down they download it and then listen to it over the course of a week as time allows taking notes uh and making their you know and making their assessments of what we've shared but uh but yeah that's that's the

07:03

Just Thinking podcast been around three years it's been known as as a number one podcast that during certain weeks number one christian podcast in the country uh every time we we uh we we drop an episode we're at least in the top 10 of christian podcasts throughout the country well uh i happen to know dewane very well personally and have interviewed him and i have received from dewane atkinson the honorary title of the og of christian broadcast yes and i have to be honest i had to ask someone very familiar with hip -hop culture what that meant that's good that's good you know what he's he's probably he's spot on with that if i if you think about it you've been around for quite some time kind of doing this thing and and and i just want to say to your listeners i'll say to you and to your listeners listen man your patience and kindness with us as you know as those who are who are brand new in the space uh the platform that you provide us uh the kindness that you show us i i know it's been at one point it was it was almost a year that you and i were trying to get together to land a particular interview so i really appreciate your your your patience and kindness toward me and let me uh give our friend dewane uh a further plug by giving our listeners his website the bar podcast .com

08:33

the bar pod podcast .com and that has nothing to do with taverns as much as many in our reformed audience seem to love that so right and it is and it is not it does not stand for as many might erroneously jump to the conclusion since dewane is a black brother it does not stand for black and reformed it stands for biblical and reformed yep and uh that's the bar podcast .com

09:01

and by the way uh i thought i'd throw in there even though it makes me feel very awkward doing so i hate uh describing people according to the melanin content of their skin sure but my guest virgil walker is a black brother in christ and i mentioned that because there are sensitive issues we are discussing that some people wrongly jump to the conclusion i believe that it is wrong and even racist for uh non -black individuals to even address these issues especially on their own and of course even when somebody who is a biblically faithful black christian addresses them they are still being anti -black racists themselves even though they are black so you can never really win with the with the uh advocates of the woke movement but uh but this uh this subject that we are uh addressing i'm i am hoping that i don't uh lose friendships over it because i have many friends in the southern baptist convention who have even been guests on this program but i have to uh say clearly that most of my closest friends and favorite guests who are still pastors or leaders in some fashion in the southern baptist convention are the first to admit and boldly oppose publicly the truths that we are addressing today absolutely so uh let me repeat the theme it's how woke is the southern baptist convention how a denomination which was purged of liberalism returned to poison itself from the very same well and before we go into that theme uh let us uh begin uh by addressing g3 ministries and your new post as executive director of operations and the upcoming conference this fall g3 conference 2021 yeah i i'm excited about it as you can imagine uh g3 for me has been something that uh you know since 2017 my first actual attendance in person is something that i'd always look forward to it's the largest conference of its kind uh it had more speakers uh from from different areas of you know reformed uh biblical theology uh in one place than any other uh one of the things that i so enjoyed is that is the cross section of speakers from uh you know from all from all over who i've respected were at one place i couldn't think of a one one place where you can go and find this many of thought leaders uh pastors preachers teachers and the like and so i think it's not only does it provide that kind of a an experience from a theological standpoint so it scratches that edge the other piece of it is and i know you you've experienced this as well having been there is the family atmosphere uh that is g3 uh unlike other conferences where you go and and you know you're thinking i've got to be a pastor to be there i've got to be you know at a and at least an associate pastor of some type or maybe an elder this is this is a this is an experience for the entire family uh and so what you what you often see in the in the context of a g3 are our families uh some folks that will will schedule their family vacation around this time and and uh and really experience the full breadth and depth of g3 and so i love being there can't wait to be a part of it this september 30th through october 2nd we will we will address uh the issue of of the doctrine of christology we'll talk about christology we'll talk about uh the nature of christ the office of christ we'll talk about every aspect related to christology possible and in a culture uh that is is is in great need of a savior and is looking for answers from every different direction rather than christ himself and the message of the gospel i think this is that this is an incredibly important time for the g3 conference to have christology as its focus and let me uh list uh some of the speakers and i will only do this once because if i did it more than once we would run out of time and have no time for an interview right so many speakers but uh stephen lawson vody balcom paul washer john macarthur josh bice who is the founder of the g3 conference anthony methenia who is paul washer's pastor one of my favorite preachers on the planet earth hensworth jonas if you do not know hensworth jonas yeah you've never heard him you've got to take a plane train or automobile to anywhere he is preaching because he is extraordinary i had the privilege of hearing him not only preach at the church where i'm a member grace baptist church of carlisle pennsylvania but also at banner of truth conferences and he is just phenomenal yes uh mike riccardi who's been a guest on this program justin peters has been a guest many times on this program joe beeky who's also been a guest many times in this program phil johnson the executive director of john macarthur's ministry grace to you who has actually been on my program more than any other guest uh in fact let me take this time to have you mark on your calendars phil johnson will be my guest again on tuesday april 6th and uh nathan business for the very first time will be on the program on thursday april 1st and that has nothing to do with nathan being a fool being april fool's day but i have been trying to interview nathan for about three years at least on his book long before luther and that will be our our discussion uh my friend for nearly three decades james r white of alpha and omega ministries is speaking and he was my very first interview on iron sharpens iron radio ever not only the first time we went on the air in 2005 but the first time we aired when i returned from a hiatus uh in 2015 after relocating to pennsylvania he was my first guest and he's been a guest many times and uh dr conrad and bayway who i have to say is my very favorite preacher on the planet earth in fact i was in the church when uh dr m bayway was preaching for the very first time in the united states it was the church where i was a member grace reform baptist church of long island and meric that had invited dr m bayway in 1995 to preach there for a three -day conference and i was there and we have we struck up a friendship then and have been in regular contact ever since and he is returning to the program for an interview and also is one of the speakers at the g3 conference and the aforementioned daryl bernard harrison just to name some of the speakers uh so i hope that as many of our listeners as possible will try to attend this and believe me it is never the same when you watch a recording even the live streaming of an event is never the same as being there personally i have such extraordinary memories from the three times that i have been present at the g3 conferences this will be my fourth one coming up and uh manning exhibitors booth especially has not only brought many new listeners to my audience but also i have met for the first time many regular listeners which has been such an encouragement it's it's always so encouraging to hear people that i don't even know yell out chrysanthemum when i'm walking through the crowd or whatever but uh now it is time for the unpleasant task to discuss how woke is the southern baptist convention and if you could first of all this may seem at this point in time like a silly question uh but define what it means to be woke to begin with yeah yeah that's a kind of an urban coquelism it's the idea of someone having been awakened to a particular issue topic subject um and in this instance as it relates to um you know the social injustice of the culture being woke is the idea that one has now been awakened uh to the fact that they are an oppressed group and uh that they that there's some things that uh that they need to begin fighting for and believing in and ways by which they need to view the world they now view the world differently rather than rather than the ways that that have historically been afforded uh from an even from a judeo -christian worldview that now the world needs to be seen through the lens of wokeness through the lens of uh victimhood through the lens of uh being an oppressed group and so uh again urban colloquialism instead of saying awakened uh to an issue they have they've now been made woke and so that's the thought process behind uh the vernacular woke now why is it that most conservative bible believing christians uh perhaps even especially from reformed backgrounds are very opposed to this this ideology and movement and it's it's interesting that although i just said most conservative bible believing christians are opposed to it i think to my recollection i can't even think of something similar where i believe it's the first time in history where something that has become the battle cry of the far left not only politically but socially morally and so on uh where the far left has captivated a significant percentage of conservative bible believing individuals congregations and denominations to follow in their footsteps in this uh this bizarre and i think very dangerous ideology so what what is it about being woke and all that comes underneath that umbrella that is so disturbing to bible believing christians at least many of them well you know that's a that's a great question the way that you phrased it and i i i i agree that many who have fought the battles for biblical um inerrancy uh from the from the decade from decades gone by i mean i i was just recently at the uh national ligonier conference and i'm reminded of r .c.

20:20

sproles and and his battle for for truth and for biblical inerrancy and then john mccarthur who was a part of that battle for inerrancy uh we have within southern baptist circles the conservative resurgence that was a battle for inerrancy and so what you have now that's new on the horizon with woke -ism if you will with the idea of being woke and seeing things through a different lens is that we've abandoned many have abandoned a biblical worldview or even a judeo -christian worldview for a for a secular worldview those who have fought the battle for inerrancy recognize this and so they they rightly so are saying are are are are the ones expressing the warning signs hey this is this is not an this is an issue not only of inerrancy but it's an issue of sufficiency is scripture sufficient to deal with the issues of race of ethnicity of ethnic hatred uh of of injustice uh with calls for justice is the bible sufficient and and those of us who believe that the bible is indeed sufficient um recognize that what's happening with with woke -ism what's happening with the social justice movement is an absolute attack on biblical sufficiency and so your question was was you know why why are many conservative evangelicals opposing this i think it's because they rightly see and have have discerned that this battle is not something that is that is new but rather it's an old battle uh perhaps couched in in new in new language uh but it's but it's the same old battle it's a question of does the bible mean what the bible means uh does the bible say what it says and ultimately at the end of the day do we believe it and uh and is it sufficient to deal with the issues of our day so i think that's why many oppose it i would have i would have approached it from the other angle because i really believe what's true is that unfortunately far too many evangelicals even those who would call themselves conservative and and more importantly reformed have begun to abandon spiritual sufficiency and begun to embrace the ideas of a woke culture and have begun to embrace the ideas of social justice and i think i think for them the ideas that they what they began to see happening in the culture uh caused them to cause them to capitulate in other words they saw the george floyd incident which was the the lightning rod but even prior to that early 2018 we began to see movement in this direction with organizations like black lives matter and uh and what they were dealing with with the trayvon martin issue uh with the michael brown issue uh and and and there and and what they were doing in culture began to have an effect even in so -called reformed uh christian circles and so you begin to see this divide a massive divide uh among those uh who who are evangelical those who are believers those who hold to even reform theology but you're especially seeing it creep its head and i know the topic of our discussion in particular you're beginning to see it creep and creep into areas of the southern baptist convention which is incredibly disturbing yes and to name a couple of specific things that uh raises the ire of those who are biblically faithful christians is that this movement ironically uh is racist it is really has as its foundation the fact that we should treat people and view them differently according to the color of their skin and not the content of their character as dr martin luther king jr was famous for saying and although i have some very serious problems with the theology of dr king that was a biblical ideology that he embraced because it's clear in the scriptures that we are not to view anyone as inferior to ourselves not only judging them by the color of their skin but their ethnic origin even their socioeconomic status we are not to give people of a higher income preference in the church we could go on and on and on about how we are never to use our eyes and the way people appear as a litmus test on how they should be treated and so on and yet this movement is trying to bring this into vogue back into vogue when it was the the very worst element of this country those who were truly racist and bigots those who were amongst the founders of the clan and the promoters of the jim crow laws and so on that's what they championed that that indeed we must treat people differently according to how they look isn't this absolutely insane absolutely it's insane and it's exactly what you stated it's the opposite of what king taught now again for all the for all the concern that we have about king theology what king got right what the civil rights movement got right was that was that their their line of argumentation was on the basis of the imago dei their arguments as to the treatment that they should have an experience in the culture in american culture you know was that that we should be treated equally martin luther king is famous i have a dream speech echoed the words from the constitution right at the declaration of independence part of my we hold these truths to be self -evident but all men are created equal so the idea that he was it was advancing was the idea of equality he was he was advancing the idea of equality on the basis of genesis 127 that god created us in his image and likeness but what we're seeing now the page that's turning is that what we're what what the social justician is now advancing in our current culture and climate is the idea of equity what they are interested in now are equity of outcomes and their thought process is that equity should be it should be adjudicated on the basis of ethnicity in fact can you pick up can you pick right up when we return from our first break on and give us a contrast between equity and equality because there is a difference and if anybody would like to if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

27:25

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the usa and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter let's say you are in disagreement with your own pastor or elders or denomination over this issue or any issue that we bring up under the umbrella of the woke movement or perhaps you're a pastor you disagree with your own elders and your own denomination and you don't want to identify yourself at this point i understand that and there are other reasons why someone might want to remain anonymous because it's a involves a personal and private matter but other than that if it's a general question a general question on history a general question on theology and doctrine and practice please give us at least your first name your city and state in your country of residence chris arnzen at gmail .com

28:18

chris arnzen at gmail .com we'll be right back with virgil walker right after these messages from our sponsors james white of alphanamega ministries here if you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough you know i have a great love for getting bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity and besides that they feel so good i'm so delighted i discovered post tenebrous lux bible rebinding no radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently but i'll give it a shot jeffrey rice of post tenebrous lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan all his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin tanned in italy used for my nestle all in 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a french tannery used to rebind a reformation study bible i used as a gift the silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art for more details on post tenebrous lux bible rebinding go to ptl bible rebinding .com

29:50

that's ptl bible rebinding .com hi i'm phil johnson host and executive director of grace to you the media ministry of john macarthur i hope you plan to join me and chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio for the g3 conference in atlanta georgia thursday september 30th through saturday october 2nd the theme this year is christ is supreme over all my friend chris arnzen and i will be joined by several of our other friends including voddie balcom justin peters daryl bernard harrison virgil walker and james white more than 20 other speakers will be joining us and the lineup this year includes my pastor john macarthur for details visit g3 conference .com

30:54

that's g3 conference .com chris arnzen and i hope to see you september 30th through october 2nd at g3 2021 this is phil johnson reminding you that christ is supreme overall chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world magazine my trusted source for news from a christian perspective try world now at no charge for 90 days by going to get world now .com

31:32

that's get world now .com i rely on world because i trust the reporting i gain insight from the analysis and world provides clarity to the news that really matter i believe you'll also find world to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's simply not found in other media outlets armed with this coverage world can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community this trial includes bi -weekly issues of world magazine on -scene reporting from world radio and the fully shareable content of world digital there's no obligation and no credit card required visit get world now .com

32:14

today also check out world news groups podcast the world and everything in it at wng .org

32:22

forward slash podcast that's w for world n for news g for group .org

32:30

forward slash podcast hello my name is anthony venio and i'm one of the pastors at hope reform baptist church in corm new york and also the host of the reform rookie .com

32:42

website i want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the iron sharpens iron radio show like i do you can now find it on the apple's itune app by typing iron sharpens iron radio in the search bar you no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work just subscribe on the itunes app and listen to the iron sharpens iron radio show at any time day or night please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and many solidly reformed guests that chris arnson has on the show truth is so hard to come by these days so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news subscribe to the iron sharpens iron radio podcast right now and while you're at it you can also sign up for the reform rookie .com

33:28

podcast and visit our website and the youtube page we are dedicated to teaching christian theology from a reformed baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers from keach's catechism and the doctrines of grace to the olivet discourse and the book of leviticus the reform rookie podcast and youtube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth and finally if you're looking to worship in a reformed church that holds to the 1689 london baptist confession of faith please join us at hope reform baptist church in quorum again i'm pastor anthony evino and thanks for listening if you love iron sharpens iron radio one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers one such faithful advertiser who really believes in what chris arnson is doing is daniel p patafuco serious injury lawyer and christian apologist dan is the president and founder of the historical bible society their mission to foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of god they go to various churches schools and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by mr patafuco demonstrating the reliability of scripture to advance the cause of the gospel they created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of jesus christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611 king james bible this 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of jesus christ going back to adam and eve this book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of noah's ark and the tower of babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe originals of this work are in museums and nobody's ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before you can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more visit historicalbiblesociety .org

35:53

that's historicalbiblesociety .org thanks for helping to keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air when iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the new american standard bible were among my very first sponsors it gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the nasb i'm pastor nate pickowitz of harvest bible church in gilmanton ironworks new hampshire and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor rich jensen of hope reform baptist church in new york and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor sule prince of oakwood wesleyan church in toronto ontario canada and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor john sampson of king's church in peoria arizona and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor chuck volo of new life community church in kingsville maryland and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor steve herford of eastport baptist church in jacksonville florida and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor roy owens jr of the church of friendship in hopley texas and the nasb is my bible of choice here's a great way for your church to help keep iron trump and zion radio on the air pastors are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart consider restocking your pews with the nasb and tell the publishers you heard about them from chris arnson on iron trump and zion radio go to nasbible .com

37:42

that's nasbible .com to place your order welcome back this is chris arnson if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours is virgil walker of the just thinking podcast he is also the executive director of operations at g3 ministries and you can find out more about g3 ministries at g3conference .com

38:05

g3conference .com and the g3 ministries also has a a new website that you can investigate as well and that's g3min .org

38:19

g3min .org and we are addressing today a very controversial theme how woke is the southern baptist convention how a denomination which was purged of liberalism returned to poison itself from the very same well our email address if you have questions of your own is chris arnson at gmail .com

38:38

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com give us your first name at least city and state of residence and country of residence and virgil right before the break you are going to distinguish between equity and equality the former of which is a demand of those who are the leaders and movers and shakers of what is known as the woke movement the social justice warrior movement and on and on we could go with the phraseology that is used to describe this yeah yeah i i only want to mention one thing that you mentioned earlier at the top with regard to g3 conference and and that is uh i know many of your listeners would be familiar with uh with rody bachum and his uh health related concerns and the like and so uh we continue to pray for him uh with with the hope and and belief that he'll return to great the full health and strength and so as as of right now we're kind of on pause with regard to his participation uh in the g3 conference but other than that all the speakers uh that you mentioned will definitely be a part of that and as well john mccarthur as well so we're really excited about that yes in fact i had the privilege of just seeing very recently uh vody bachum speak at a conference in pennsylvania and uh at that time he seemed like he was at the top of his health uh gave me a bear hug that i think broke a couple of ribs and uh so it was a shock actually that he developed a serious health problem but i know that he has actually had symptoms of various kinds arise since his move to zambia uh so we we must pray for him as you said absolutely absolutely but let's continue to talk about but the difference between equality and equity right now in the culture what you're hearing uh unlike dr king's movement uh is you're hearing a cry for equity it's not about equality when the civil rights movement of the 60s pushed forward what you saw were men in these sandwich boards and on the sandwich board uh that they would wear if they walked the street uh they put this over their head and they'd walk the streets there the board would say on on the front and on the back i am a man that was the that was the rally cry uh the idea of being a man treated equally uh giving given equal opportunity to do well but what's now being advocated with those who who are promoting black lives matter and their and its ideology is they're promoting equity equity and so what that requires to the point you made earlier chris was that that's a demand and that demand requires that i take from someone else in order to have equitable footing in order to have equity uh in in hand and so if someone has more than me uh either either i and or government should take from them in order to give to me so that i can have an equitable outcome and so what we're looking at now is language is being used uh is actually being deconstructed for the purpose of reframing society and culture in the very image that those who hold to woke ideology stand so now there are several sins that seem to be prevalent in this whole movement uh you have uh the violation uh or the disobeying of uh god's command not to covet thy neighbor's goods uh and in fact when these things are successfully mandated thou shalt not steal is uh one of the violations of the commandment uh and i would even say vengeance seems to be a primary motivation you have people who want to take vengeance on the white race if you will uh even when those who uh are having the the the vengeance of the left brought upon them have nothing to do personally with the circumstances that anyone in this country or this world finds themselves in uh you have like for instance i'll you an example uh my family immigrated on my mother's side to the united states from poland in the early 1900s and on my my father's side they immigrated from norway in the late 1800s and to brooklyn new york none of my ancestors owned slaves the only possible slave owners that could have existed in my family were vikings and my father's side who if they had slaves they would have been white uh so the the the fact that i should be held responsible and anyone uh in the 21st century should be held responsible because of the acts of people in the past uh just because of our skin color is really not only insane but it is wicked isn't it absolutely well first you're dealing with with the sin of partiality uh it's the idea that if i have a certain melanin count uh i am always in a either victimized status or and i and my ancestors have been oppressed and so what this has done and daryl and i talk about this often on the just thinking podcast for you to subscribe to uh social justice for you to subscribe to woke culture you have to have a it's what it creates and this is why it's problematic within within evangelical circles and and predominantly within within the fbc any denomination for that matter what it sets up in in in this idea of of oppressed and oppressor groups are two different kinds of people so now what you have rather than all of us being equal creating the image and likeness of god genesis 127 regards to the fact that god through one man adam makes all of mankind makes all of the nations right all the ethnos act 1726 rather than that what we now have is a different uh anthropology an unbiblical anthropology of the haves and the have -nots the oppressed and the oppressor and so it what it what wokeism creates what social justice creates it creates a different anthropology it creates a different idea of man it creates a different homology a different idea of sin now the greatest sin is racism and there and and while christ may have paid the penalty may have paid the price for to act to to cover our sin to to uh so that those who repent and have faith in christ can uh can experience eternal life the one sin that he was deficient in really covering the ground for is the sin of racism it is the highest sin that that that can be known in woke culture and so as a result not only did christ pay for those sins but there's sins that you now as a white male have got to adjudicate for have got to repay and and the way that you repay those are by involving yourself in anti -racist works and so it is a different gospel it requires a different soteriology a different idea around salvation salvation is no longer through christ alone salvation is through christ alone and anti -racist works so this is a different gospel and that's why it's so detrimental to any denomination and particularly the sbc yes and we are talking about even the advocacy by those who are movers and shakers in the woke movement of segregation of of mimicking the horrific ideology of the nation of islam and a lot of people might be surprised by this uh i uh was surprised that uh perhaps i shouldn't have been surprised but uh spike lee's movie about malcolm x which actually in my opinion was an excellent movie um he he left out something very crucial that the elijah muhammad had actually invited on two occasions george lincoln rockwell the founder of the american nazi party to speak at his rallies in madison square garden uh because they agreed on segregation right uh even though george lincoln rockwell hated black people and used the n word when he was not in their company at the madison square garden anyway uh they thought they saw him as an ally of sorts anyway and in fact uh you have lewis farrakhan who's praised hitler and so on so it is just utterly amazing that they are advocating that blacks flee white churches and join all black churches and so on and so on if you could just pick up where i left off there absolutely well you've got everything from uh in in the active outside culture in other words on college campuses around the country there are black organizations advocating for safe spaces for blacks uh they want all black dormitories they want all uh black uh areas where they can congregate if there's an if there's an area where where there's more than one ethnicity they want it cleared from that ethnicity their entire days by which what what uh college students are advocating for is they're telling their their teachers and otherwise that they're not allowed in certain areas for for teaching and so this is the kind of thing that's happening in the culture the backwards view of what we talked about which was king's movement and now fast forward that into evangelical circles what you're seeing uh in in those cases and spaces are something incredibly similar but what they're doing is they're encouraging people to leave they're they're this was a new york times article that that that looked at the fact that there were that there's this this exodus of blacks who are leaving white evangelical churches and again a lot of this began around the time that that uh that um trump was inaugurated in the office but what's happening now there's this movement uh that they're calling leaving loud they not only want to leave now they want to leave loud in other words they want to make it very clear why they're leaving that they're leaving and that what needs to happen is change needs to take place before they'll return what people have in their head is a mixed up ecclesiology they really do believe that that church is about them rather being rather than the church being about being the bride of christ now as our theme title has indicated the southern baptist convention at one time uh was i don't know if dominated would be a fair description but it was very highly populated and influenced by the left and god in his grace used men such as al moeller and others to purge that denomination from leftism how on earth did they go from this point of finally uh being able to as it were breathe a sigh of relief that they had the southern baptist convention had returned to its biblical roots uh of course uh only a minority returned to its biblical roots of calvinism but that's for another day in another interview uh there are many vehement anti -calvinists that still remain in leadership in the southern baptist convention but at the very least there was a return to biblical orthodoxy how on earth did this woke ism of all things become infiltrated into the southern baptist convention and begin to poison it again yeah i think i think it's a great question i i don't think it's again this is nothing new none of the things that we're seeing are new it would be paul that that would tell the ephesian elders as he left that as soon as i depart right they're going to be ravenous wolves x19 will be ravenous wolves who come and the desire to devour the sheep um and and so that's what was that that's exactly what took place i think we let we we the conservative resurgence moved forward uh we believed that we had won and that the battle was over and so we we decided you know what we're we're good uh we're safe it's all good no more battle to fight now we can enjoy just to just a just kind of a resting on our laurels and what began to happen and what we see happening in sbc circles was a in adaptation uh if you will to pragmatism uh rather than really understanding inerrancy to the degree that we begin to embrace biblical sufficiency in every area from a from an area of worship to how we disciple uh to how we engage in in in church discipline uh every factor that the bible explained for us uh the regulative principle of worship uh it explains how we should how we should interact uh as a church as a church body with god and rather than appealing to that what we decided was that some of the fastest growing churches were appealing to relevant in fact can you pick up right where you left off on relevance because we have to go to our midway break now absolutely and if anybody wants to join us again our email address is chrisarmson at gmail .com

52:41

remember folks this is the midway break which is a bit longer than the other breaks in the show because grace life radio 90 .1

52:47

fm in lake city florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the fcc requires of them the localizing of this show and all their programming geographically to lake city florida so they have to air their own public service announcements and other local things while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials please use this time wisely and write down as much of the information as you can provided by as many of our advertisers as you can so that they will be happy and want to continue to sponsor the show because we absolutely positively depend upon the finances that come through our advertisers to exist so please respond to them even if it just means thanking them for sponsoring this show and also send in a question to virgil walker on how woke is the southern baptist convention the chris arnson at gmail .com

53:35

chris arnson at gmail .com we'll be right back with virgil walker right after these messages from our sponsors i'm james white of alpha and omega ministries my friend chris arnson host of iron sharpens iron radio and i are headed down to atlanta georgia once again for the g3 conference this year's g3 will be held thursday september 30th through saturday october 2nd on the theme christ is supreme over all i'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of god through preaching teaching and singing including john macarthur phil johnson conrad and bayway daryl bernard harrison and virgil walker for details visit g3 conference .com

54:23

that's g3 conference .com chris arnson and i hope to see you september 30th through october 2nd at g3 21.

54:31

this is james white reminding you that christ is supreme overall when iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the new american standard bible were among my very first sponsors it gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the nasb i'm author gary demar president of american vision and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor dan lebanek of west hills baptist church in huntington station new york and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm justin peters of justin peters ministries and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm reverend buzz taylor author of god's lawson and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm dr william webster pastor of grace bible church in battleground washington founder of the ministry christian resources the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor ryan galan of central iceland community church in central iceland new york and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor brandon smith of trinity reform baptist church in jackson georgia and the nasb is my bible of choice here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air pastors are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart consider restocking your pews with the nasb and tell the publishers you heard about them from chris arnson on iron radio go to nasbible .com

56:23

that's nasbible .com to place your order linbrook baptist church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st century our church is far more than a sunday worship service it's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant it's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement it's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing we're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and together hi i'm pastor bob waldeman and i invite you to come and join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that a church can be call in brook baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org

57:16

that's linbrookbaptist .org was your business shut down during the covid 19 pandemic depriving you of earning any money causing you to default on your rent as you try to survive without income maybe you've had to close your doors for good the good news you thought was that you purchased business interruption insurance as a part of your business liability policy with a major insurance company who told you they are a good neighbor or that you would be in good hands you filed a claim only to be told that it was denied due to the pandemic exclusion clause the pandemic exclusion since 2006 most insurance companies added this clause to enable them to deny your income loss claims in the event of a worldwide pandemic do not give up no matter what state you live in call buttafuoco and associates now at 1 -800 -669 -4878 buttafuoco and associates is a part of a large multi -district litigation and they are working with lead council to bring what they believe will be a successful lawsuit for these claims it is the best way for you to proceed there's absolutely no risk to you you do not have to pay them out of pocket and there is no fee unless you recover on your claim you need to call 1 -800 -669 -4878 right now trust the law firm where the attorneys at one of the largest business firms on long island new york are sending their own clients for representation during this lawsuit buttafuoco and associates here to help business owners rebuild their lives in the wake of the pandemic call 1 -800 -669 -4878 hi this is john sampson pastor of king's church in peoria arizona taking a moment of your day to talk about chris arnson and the iron sharpens iron podcast i consider chris a true friend and man of high integrity he's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the christian faith i've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray i believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide this is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet god has raised chris up for just such a time and knowing this it's up to us as members of the body of christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances i'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting iron sharpens iron financially would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry i know it would be a huge encouragement to chris if you would all the details can be found at iron sharpens iron dot com where you can click support that's iron sharpens iron radio dot com as host of iron sharpens iron radio i frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations a church i've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is grace covenant baptist church in flemington new jersey pastored by alan dunn grace covenant baptist church believes it's god's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world they believe churches need to turn to the bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship god in spirit and truth grace covenant baptist endeavors to maintain a god -centered focus reading preaching and hearing the word of god singing psalms hymns and spiritual songs baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith joy and sobriety discover more about grace covenant in flemington new jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace

01:01:54

.com that's gcbcnj .squarespace .com

01:02:00

or call them at 908 -996 -7654 that's 908 -996 -7654 tell pastor dunn that you heard about grace covenant baptist church on iron sharpens iron radio getting a driver's license running a cash register flipping burgers passing sixth grade do you know what they all have in common they all require training assessments and certifications but do it requires no training at all becoming a parent my name is am brewster i'm the president of truth love parent and host of its award -winning podcast i've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s and what i've discovered is that the majority of christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes that's why truth love parent exists we serve god by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents god called and created them to be we produce free parenting resources trained church leaders and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness please visit us at truth love parent .com

01:03:28

we are excited to announce another new member of the iron sharpens iron radio advertising family bhanu gadi owner of three new york pharmacies lee's drugs of floral park long beach chemists and prescription center of long island in hempstead bhanu gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic please contact dr gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media to find the pharmacy nearest you call 516 -354 -2000 that's 516 -354 -2000 or order online at lee's drugs rx .com

01:04:17

that's l -e -e -s drugs rx .com don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program greetings in the matchless name of our lord jesus christ my name is bhanu gadi i'm a pharmacist in new york which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through in psalm 139 verse 14 the psalmist offers praise to the lord like this i praise you because i'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well he saw god's goodness and kindness and the beauty in what god has designed and he has erupted into praise in any crisis or problem brothers and sisters our only fallback position is to trust god's design and once we do there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him when the whole world is searching for a solution god in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness which can be very serious such is the beauty of his design knowing that design how can we not add up and praise to our great god like the psalmist did may god bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design thank you every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions coffee shops and local hangouts long island youth for christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need jesus we are rural and urban and we are always about the message of jesus our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on long island new york by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following christ long island youth for christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959 we have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world help honor our history by becoming a part of our future volunteer donate pray or all of the above for details call long island youth for christ at 631 -385 -8333 that's 631 -385 -8333 or visit liyfc .org

01:06:48

that's liyfc .org are you tired of looking for the silver bullet when it comes to health and wellness are you frustrated with the medical status quo which masks symptoms and doesn't treat the root problem of sickness more importantly are you looking for one of the most unique books ever written which gives you safe low cost and proven options to regain your health the way god intended then look no further than my new book health for all of life a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the hi i'm jason garwood and i'm a husband father pastor and writer whose passion for helping people led me to write this book if 2020 has proven anything it's that big pharma big tech and big government knows nothing about how to treat people naturally without poisoning them with synthetic drugs and experimental vaccines but what if god has given us a better way what if we can take the christian worldview found in the bible and apply it to health and wellness my book health for all of life does just that you can find this exciting new book on amazon pick up a copy for yourself and for your friends and family give the gift of health and don't be a dead end to truth charles heddon spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading the man who never reads will never be read he who never quotes will never be quoted he will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own you need to read solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart the mission of solid ground christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting books for all ages we invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

01:08:46

that's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present you can unearth from solid ground solid ground christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio and please don't ever forget folks that we here at iron sharpens iron absolutely depend upon the advertising dollars that come through the support of solid -ground -books .com

01:09:12

so please visit solid -ground -books .com frequently and purchase generously always remembering to mention that you heard about them from chris arenson on iron sharpens iron radio at solid -ground -books .com

01:09:27

and also remember folks you're not just going to be them a favor by purchasing books at solid -ground -books .com

01:09:35

and you're not only going to be doing us a favor by keeping one of our advertisers happy you're going to be doing yourself and anyone for whom you are purchasing get purchasing gifts from solid -ground -books .com

01:09:48

an enormous favor because they publish nothing but the very finest and biblically sound works of not only history from centuries past and also the finest and contemporary authors like dr james r white of alpha and omega ministries at solid -ground -books .com

01:10:05

solid -ground -books .com before we return to our guest today virgil walker and our theme how woke is the southern baptist convention i just have a couple more announcements if you love this show folks and you don't want to disappear from the airwaves please go to iron sharpens iron radio .com

01:10:22

click support then click to donate now you can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion if you prefer snail mail the old -fashioned way using the united states postal service you can mail a check made payable to iron sharpens iron radio to the address the physical address that appears on your screen when you click support at iron sharpens iron radio .com

01:10:43

also you can advertise with us as long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe you don't have to believe identically with me but you need to be promoting something that is the very least compatible with what we believe send me an email to chris arnzen at gmail .com

01:10:59

chris arnzen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line and always remember folks i do not want my listeners to siphon money away from their regular giving that they're accustomed to to their own local church where they are a member in order to give to iron sharpens iron radio in other words don't punish your own church financially by blessing us financially please don't do that and also if you are really struggling to survive and make ends meet please wait a while before donating because we don't want to add to your own financial jeopardy through giving to iron sharpens iron radio those two things are commands of god and scripture providing for your church and providing for your family providing for my radio show is obviously not the command of god and scripture but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for your church and family you have extra money that you use for recreational purposes and trivial purposes and you have money collecting interest in the bank and you are comfortable and are looking for ways to use your money benevolently then please if you love this show and don't want it to disappear go to iron sharpens iron radio dot com click support then click click to donate now and donate frequently and generously if you are indeed able to do so without violating those two commands also folks if you are not a member of a local biblically faithful theologically sound bible believing church no matter where on the planet earth you live i may be able to help you find a church that fits that description i've helped many people in our audience all over the globe find churches that are biblically sound sometimes right around the corner from where they live and they didn't even know these churches existed or they didn't know that these churches that they pass by every day were biblically sound so if that fits your description that you need a biblically sound church because you don't currently have one send me an email to chris arnzen at gmail .com

01:12:54

no matter where on the planet earth you live and i may be able to help you find a church that's chris arnzen at gmail .com

01:13:00

and put i need a church in the subject line that's also the email address where you can write a question for virgil walker on our discussion how woke is the southern baptist convention it's chris arnzen at gmail .com

01:13:12

always give us your first name at least your city and state and country of residence if you live outside the usa you know and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and before i go to any of our listener questions that are mounting up virgil why don't you pick up where we left off you were talking about how one of the key factors in the history of the downfall of any church or denomination or even individuals is when they stop looking at the bible as their god breathed blueprint for what to believe and how to function and worship and they begin to use pragmatism they begin to use the the wisdom of men and even use the so -called wisdom of christ's enemies if you could just pick up where we left off there yeah absolutely i think that the issue of pragmatism just the the practice of hey this seems to work this idea seems to work and uh we've we've pushed the envelope on that to the degree that we are beholden to every wind that that kind of blows in the culture so right now the wind blowing in the culture is that of social justice it's the idea of of that we've been talking about with regard to critical race theory it's the idea that appeals to intersectionality where we've we've taken what god has said is one human race broken them down into their segregated groups kind of reverse engineered things so to speak and have made the decision that what we need to do now is to treat people on the basis of the melanin count or the color of their skin not the content of their character or the idea that their image bears of god that's that's how you can have in 2019 the spc appeal to critical race theory and and the now now infamous uh resolution nine uh the idea that we can that as we as we look at the landscape of our of our denomination we can use a a quote unquote analytical tool like critical race theory of course they put they provide all the correct language because they know this is a this is a uh denomination that has fought the issue of inerrancy so they of course have subjugated to well we're going to use the scripture as the primary driver we're going to use scripture but if you know anything about the world view that's behind critical race theory you know that it really deconstructs everything in its wake it it it begins with language it begins with deconstructing language and so now racism no longer is an attitude of the heart uh followed by an action aimed at a person of a specific ethnicity racism is now systemic and so it now infects every facet of culture it's in the very air we breathe even when we don't know we're being racist we are benefiting from systemic racism and it's boogie men like that apart from the pages of scripture as defined by the word of god that create the kind of chaos within denominations and organizations that critical race theory has created and so that that's what we're looking at currently uh within within uh within the spc now there was a time not long ago where i didn't really have to do a lot of investigation and background checkup when uh someone asked me uh can you recommend this theologically calvinistic southern baptist congregation uh that has some affiliation with the southern baptist theological seminary i used to just say oh i can recommend them right away you know i mean uh without really having to look deeply into the background of the church or the pastor the same goes with the pca the presbyterian church in america i used to very quickly without hesitation say oh that i'm sure that's a solid church i can't do that anymore uh i have people writing me every day from all over the united states and all over the world asking me for church recommendations and it takes a little bit more or maybe a lot more homework on my part before i can with good confidence recommend churches even that had historically biblically sound roots so how did this uh as far as you know start to make its way into a church a denomination like the spc that championed the exposing and refutation of leftist apostasy and opened the door to this do you know exactly how these things happened incrementally perhaps yeah you can you can you can trace this back um i mean i could i james cone uh and and and black liberation theology that unfortunately permeated black culture and black churches and then as as the integration began to take place uh there was there was great benefit in in white churches who had now had an influx of of members of of different ethnicities that they began to appeal to the to the idea of suffering this this idea the theology of suffering and so you know and now when you when you begin to listen to pastors preach about egypt and pharaoh uh the black man or the oppressed were now egypt and pharaoh and or now we're now slaves under egypt and pharaoh and pharaoh the the because of the fact that we began to allegorize a text of scripture rather than rightly divide them based upon the exposition and expositional preaching uh we just began to see this this this looseness about our preaching uh now rather than really getting expositional preaching what people began to develop were were diets of five points uh that could help you become successful three points that can that can do you know have you make sure that you have a better marriage but so the gospel is removed pragmatism is employed the idea of suffering is all a part of it and again i i i could trace back the people the leaders the ideas throughout history but again needless to say this is something that's permeated our culture now for the last 40 years it's been on a march uh since the 60s and really really 60 years now we're in 2020 we began to see an explosion take place though around 2017 and 18 and and again with with men like uh dr uh josh byas with men like john macarthur who came together with a group of men and began to write down a statement on social justice and the gospel and as they wrote down that statement it became it became incredibly clear who stood with him on a biblical the fit on biblical sufficiency and who stood against them on these issues that was that was the kind of the line of demarcation as you kind of as you kind of phrase it with with regard to who who stood where with regard to this particular issue now uh back in the early 2000s my show was launched in new york of wnyg radio originally in babylon long island wnyg and wgbb radio early on in my years of hosting iron trip and zion radio i loved interviewing i think all of the participants i'm almost certain all of the co -authors of glory road the journeys of 10 african americans into reformed christianity and many if not all of those men uh attributed rc sprawl as a primary vehicle that god used in his sovereignty and providence to draw them into the reformed faith this old white guy and and uh i'm not going to uh claim that all of these men and in fact it may be just a couple that were involved in writing that book seem to have joined this bandwagon of woke and it shocks me because when i had these men on the show they were saying things that were the polar opposite of what the woke movement stands for today uh do you know what has enticed some of the the great thinkers that were championing christian orthodoxy as as little as nine years ago uh who have been the movers and shakers that have become the movers and shakers of this movement and it just shocks me i'm i'm speechless about it i just don't even know what to say with that yeah it's not only shocking it's actually heartbreaking uh it's actually heartbreaking to to witness what you believe to be a a really clear gospel resurgence right a clear theological resurgence uh from from a standpoint of biblical truth reformed theology an understanding of sin the nature of sin the message of the gospel uh that that it that it that all of what's entailed there has nothing to do with the level of melanin in my skin so to see them capitulate to the point where now they're embracing that idea i could not tell you with this with with any with anything any you know pinpoint accuracy what was the transformation except now scripture does tell us that they went out from us because they were not of us now i i know that in in even stating that making that statement there'll be some who'll bristle there'll be some who'll be concerned am i saying these these folks aren't saved i don't i don't have a a a crystal ball to look into the heart of these individuals but but i will say this if you've abandoned the core doctrines and core tenets of the faith i think there comes a point at which we have to begin asking questions with regard to what were you saved unto was this just an opportunity for you that you saw as as a lot of these men were platformed early on as they began to become aware of of you know reformed teaching or were they really drawn in by what god had done in the hearts of each one of these men only only god knows only they know but but i can tell you what right now with regards to their actions uh they really tell a very different picture it seems to me that they that they've brought they've bought on to reform theology they've bought on uh to the ideas of you know of r .c.

01:23:55

spole and men like that uh for the purpose of of how how you know how it benefited them for a period of time and now that they don't see that as beneficial and what now becomes the beneficial movement uh is this woke ideology they've left onto that train as it's moved i mean you you you met 10 years ago 15 20 years ago early 2000 uh there were there were articles being written about reform theology and the fact that the that the that the young restless and reformed were on the move and so here you had a movement that was happening and and again i'm i i don't i can't speak to the motivation of these men but you did have a movement that was happening with this resurgence of biblical truth uh under the banner of of reform theology and so that was a movement then and there was benefit great benefit and jumping on that train for some uh and perhaps this is now the new train that they believe that they can extract benefit from and so they're they're on that train watching it roll down the track to their benefit and i have to reiterate that i i don't know that this uh slide into leftism is is something that even the majority of the authors of glory road are participating and i want to make it clear uh it might even might be a minority of the authors i don't know all i could say is that i was very disappointed that uh a publisher a very respected and theologically trustworthy publisher sent me a book by a fairly well -known black christian author who had he's fairly well known especially in reform circles and they wanted me to interview the author on this book and it's interesting that right after i uh began heavily publicizing vody baucom's conference here in pennsylvania that i attended that i mentioned earlier i was contacted by the publisher saying that the author had uh canceled the interview not postponed it not changed the date canceled it without explanation and the publisher could not tell me why uh i can't help but think it had something to do with my very aggressive and enthusiastic and joyful promotion of vody baucom and his conference on critical race theory the timing was too bizarre in fact it was the day after the conference that they canceled the interview uh but it's very sad though yes it is well we have a couple of uh in fact more than a couple of listener questions uh first we have i think he may be a first -time questioner andrew in brooklyn new york hi virgil how close do you think the southern baptist convention is to a breakup yeah that's that's a great question i i don't know the answer to that i don't have my finger on the pulse of all of the movers and shakers within the spc i do know uh that over the course this last two years since the last convention uh folks have been made very aware of critical race theory or groups like the founders founders ministries uh definitely the folks at g3 who were responsible for for co -authoring the statement of social justice in the gospel uh there's been a lot of noise made in spc circles about the nature of you know of critical race theory and there are a lot of folks who are who are rather unhappy and who want to who are who are ready to have a conversation about about how to move forward i've not heard them all say you know with any with any direction hey we're all we're all leaving i think for the most part they they love and care about the southern baptist convention uh and they don't want to see such a large body that it's good but for such a long period of time on biblical inerrancy i capitulate on the issue of sufficiency yes and i uh want to give a shout out to my dear friend dr tom askell who is the president of founders ministries who is very opposed to critical race theory and very saddened about its very strong influence in the southern baptist convention and i have interviewed dr askell many times would love to interview him many more times in the future and i have enjoyed hearing him speak at various conferences and his fellow elder there at grace baptist church of cape coral florida so i want to make it clear that this is not something that uh you have to uh have suspicion with every single southern baptist leader or figure uh there there is uh a a uh significant segment of the sbc that is very opposed to what's going on absolutely it would be remiss not to mention the conservative baptist network uh led by uh dr uh brad jerkovich um there's a number of pastors who express tremendous concern about these issues and i and i believe are standing rightly on biblical sufficiency uh and and they're willing to to to say no to man -made philosophies like critical race theory that are antithetical to a biblical worldview and to and to christianity by the way andrew uh if you are indeed a first -time questioner please email me your full mailing address in brooklyn new york so i can have cvbbs .com

01:29:45

cumberland valley bible book service ship you out a brand new new american standard bible which is what we do here whenever a first -time questioner sends in a question they get a new bible uh compliments of the publishers of the nasb and also compliments of cumberland valley bible book service cvbbs .com

01:30:04

we have a very loyal and faithful and generous supporter of iron chirping sign radio grady from ashborough north carolina greetings brothers chris and virgil recently several leaders in the southern baptist convention came out and made a statement against critical race theory do you know if this has made an impact within the southern baptist convention also how much longer before the book you and darryl are writing will be released those are great questions thanks uh for the question you had who came out and uh and spoke against uh crt and basically their statement was one of uh validating the baptist faith and message 2000 and in the statement they had said that uh critical race theory um is is is not in line is outside the bounds uh of of what um of what of that which comports to uh the baptist faith and message so they wanted to make the statement clear and say that you know this crt is not in line with the baptist faith and message it's outside of that line uh that created a great bit of anxiety and angst there were a number of african -american pastors who gathered together um and and wrote a letter uh there were two pastors who said that they were out of the sbc uh they were leaving as a result of this of this letter since that time those presidents of the seminaries and black leaders have gotten together uh and and ronnie floyd brought them together early part of january uh they have since you know written a statement uh affirming that dialogue needed to take place before such a statement went out by the president but what's happened since then are a number of those seminary presidents have jumped onto their vocal podcasts uh podcasts associated with the seminary in the life and absolutely capitulated reversed what they said uh in this statement about critical race there's a lot of ed yeah there's a lot of ebb and flow uh to what's happening and and there's you know i i i don't i believe more of what people do and less of what people say and more it's really sad to witness and in your book uh grady asked about the book yeah we we we are working on daryl and i are working on a trilogy of books uh through founders press right now um and the first of those being just thinking about the state we thought with inaugural season uh with this brand new presidency uh and the like that it would be important to get in the hands of listeners and those who are fans of just thinking and those who want to understand what we're going to be enduring for the next four years with regard to the state with regard to socialism uh the social justice march forward and so what we cover all of that ground in our first book our anticipated date uh somewhere uh somewhere hopefully uh sometime in july we anticipate that being out and then and then thereafter i will see what the other ones one was uh just thinking about the church uh and then just thinking about ethnicity great well i didn't even know of the connection with founders ministries uh that they were publishing it that's great uh more proof that we are fully supportive of a number of faithful southern baptists mm -hmm absolutely thanks grady and we have an anonymous listener who said i am quite concerned that the congregation where i am a member is seriously considering considering joining the southern baptist convention might i ask is this phenomenon of wokeism predominantly existing amongst arminian southern baptists or is this equally present amongst those that are arminian and reformed yeah i think i think what we're seeing is that this crosses the boundary uh i think there's there are those who are so concerned about ethnicity and who have lifted it to a a you know an idolatrous height uh that that have made the decision that you know they're going to embrace these ideas and they're they're encouraging their their their congregation is to read books by abram kindy or robin d 'angelo about white fragility or about anti -racism so now rather than being being being told that you're going to study matthew mark luke and john uh you're being encouraged to study kindy uh d 'angelo uh tisby and so those are the that's the difference that that you're now seeing and and this is this crosses this crosses uh color lines uh this crosses uh so curiology and and ideas around that it's it's not i mean no one's in there yeah you're speaking of jamar tisby correct yeah the the personal assistant of ligand duncan absolutely which is utterly amazing since ligand has always been a go -to guy for sound theology a close friend of john macarthur speaker at even i believe g3 conferences in the past uh i i just don't even understand it i've had ligand on this program and ligand has written a glowing endorsement of iron trip and sign radio i'm just dumbfounded by this which actually reminds me of another prohibition in the scriptures that those in the woke movement seem to have utterly ignored and defied is thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor that seems to be a huge sin that they champion uh by virtue of the fact that they call out people publicly by name and declare that they're racists when clearly the evidence shows that there's no truth in that that condemnation or slander yeah that that that kind of behavior is absolutely abysmal i mean it is on so many different levels uh they they they often use ideas of of uh of correlation as causation and so for example in the instance of the uh of the shooter that recently the shooter that that was in uh in atlanta in georgia uh that that the shooting that took place there he had shot and shot a number of uh of shops i guess massage parlors there happened to be asians uh who were working there um what what the woke uh crowd that are part of of tearing down uh the spc uh and others are trying to do with that is they look at that information they find that they go and find this this idea that this young man had had attended a uh a an spc church that they believe was was was one of the churches that that our brothers from we mentioned founders that our brothers from the founders had said hey this is a solid church now the young man attended the church we we know for a brief period of time the church never advocated the idea of murder had never advocated any kind of sex work in any way shape or form but they take that correlation the idea that the young man had been there and been connected and and say see there's causation it must be because founders hold to the idea that the men at founders hold to the idea of of uh of of complementarianism uh they said they therefore subjugate women and so this is what breathes from that so they take correlation that causation and and and they amplify it by adding racism to it while while there's no evidence whatsoever that racism was involved uh in the shooting they've added racism to it and then begin to slanderously uh accuse good men men of god who love god and are walking uprightly of doing something that is that is absolutely heinous heinous that everyone would repudiate but this is their tactic and it's it's jaw -dropping uh to witness it uh it's mind -numbing uh to watch them walk this out but that's the behavior that we're seeing coming from the woke crowd yeah we have uh joseph in south central pennsylvania who says i happen to be in attendance at the same conference where vody baucom spoke in pennsylvania not long ago during his lectures vody said that he had been accused by fellow black christians who are in favor of the woke movement of not being a black person who truly understands the black experience in spite of his own color vody comically responded to those charges well i was born and raised in south central la to a single mother who was a buddhist is that good enough for you and i was wondering if you and daryl have heard similar charges and how do you respond to those kinds of accusations and arguments yeah daryl for the most part has a has a has a three -word response to those kinds of things and the three -word response that he gives is i don't care that that that i i think i think that i think that is as quick and clear as as a response as we can give and and truth be told uh neither of us have cared you can't well all that we care about is articulating truth if you could show me uh where i've gotten something wrong on the basis of scripture man i will absolutely bow the knee repent and and turn but if you're going to tell me that that if you're going to if you're going to engage in an ad hominem attack simply based upon the fact that you can't address the argument you know i'm not black enough i'm not woke enough i don't understand i have a colonized mind and then all the all the pejoratives that that come from that i'm you know i'm i'm an aunt chamima i'm a coon i'm this i'm that i mean all of the name calling from these folks who are supposedly advocating for racial equality uh racial equity but they engage in some of the most heinous behavior i could tell you about pastors who who who if i named them you would know who they are who've called me everything from a slave to an uncle tom to an uncle ruckus uh for those who don't know who uncle ruckus was don't bother looking him up it's he's a despicable man uh who a cartoon character uh who who uh who who takes great uh great uh joy uh in harpooning uh blacks and so i've been called all of those names and primarily by those who seemingly are supposed to be advocating for racial quote -unquote racial equity racial equality but that's the nature of their tactic and it's sad yeah truth is truth uh jesus christ did not need to experience transgendered feelings uh to be able to speak clearly in his word about what is acceptable and what is damnable behavior and we could go on with the apostle paul and everybody else who is an author of the god -breathed scriptures uh so that is a moot point as you said we have to go to our final break right now if anybody wants to join us on the air there are still a couple of people waiting to have their questions asked and answered if you want to join them and get in line our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:42:01

chrisarnson at gmail .com as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the usa i will be right back after these messages hello dear ones my name is justin peters and my friend chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio and i are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the united states we'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the g3 conference in atlanta georgia thursday september 30th through saturday october the 2nd on the theme christ is supreme over all i'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers including john mccarthur phil johnson vody balcom joel beecke and james white for details visit g3 conference .com

01:43:03

that's g the number three conference .com please join chris arnzen and me september 30th through october the 2nd at g3 2021 this is justin peters reminding you that christ is supreme over all if you love iron sharpens iron radio one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers one such faithful advertiser who really believes in what chris arnzen is doing is daniel p patafuco serious injury lawyer and christian apologist dan is the president and founder of the historical bible society their mission to foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of god they go to various churches schools and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by mr patafuco demonstrating the reliability of scripture to advance the cause of the gospel they created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of jesus christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611 king james bible this 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of jesus christ going back to adam and eve this book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of noah's ark and the tower of babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe originals of this work are in museums and nobody's ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before you can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of 35 or more visit historicalbiblesociety .org

01:45:18

that's historicalbiblesociety .org thanks for helping to keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air when iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the new american standard bible were among my very first sponsors it gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the nasb i'm dr joseph piper president and professor of systematic and homiletical theology at greenville presbyterian theological seminary in taylor's south carolina and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor chuck white at the first trinity lutheran church in tonawanda new york and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor anthony methenia of christ church in radford virginia and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor jesse miller of damascus road christian church in gardenville nevada and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor bruce bennett of word of truth church in farmingville long island new york and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor rodney brown of metro bible church in south lake texas and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor jim harrison of red mills baptist church in mayapac falls new york and the nasb is my bible of choice here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air pastors are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart consider restocking your pews with the nasb and tell the publishers you heard about them from chris arnzen on iron trump and zion radio go to nasbible .com

01:47:19

that's nasbible .com to place your order this is pastor bill saso grace church at franklin here in the beautiful state of tennessee our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support iron sharpens iron radio financially grace church at franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of god as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our lord jesus christ and of course the end of which we strive is the glory of god if you live near franklin tennessee and franklin is just south of nashville maybe 10 minutes or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby we hope you will join us some lord's day in worshiping our god and savior please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about grace church at franklin our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org

01:48:35

that's gracechurchatfranklin .org this is pastor bill sasa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign lord god savior and king jesus christ today and always are you tired of looking for the silver bullet when it comes to health and wellness are you frustrated with the medical status quo which masks symptoms and doesn't treat the root problem of more importantly are you looking for one of the most unique books ever written which gives you safe low cost and proven options to regain your health the way god intended then look no further than my new book health for all of life a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the nations hi i'm jason garwood and i'm a husband father pastor and writer whose passion for helping people led me to write this book if 2020 has proven anything it's that big pharma big tech and big government knows nothing about how to treat people naturally without poisoning them with synthetic drugs and experimental vaccines but what if god has given us a better way what if we can take the christian worldview found in the bible and apply it to health and wellness my book health for all of life does just that you can find this exciting new book on amazon pick up a copy for yourself and for your friends and family give the gift of health and don't be a dead end to truth we are excited to announce another new member of the iron sharpens iron radio advertising family banu gadi owner of three new york pharmacies lee's drugs of floral park long beach chemists and prescription center of long island in hempstead banu gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic please contact dr gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media to find the pharmacy nearest you call 516 -354 -2000 that's 516 -354 -2000 or order online at lee's drugs rx .com

01:50:52

that's l -e -e -s drugs rx .com don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program hi i'm buzz taylor chris armson of iron sharpens iron radio has had a long -time partnership with at cv bbs which stands for cumberland valley bible book service they specialize in supplying reformed and puritan books and bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for everyone cv bbs has been a family -owned book service since 1987 operating out of carlisle pennsylvania they seek to bring you the best available christian books and bibles at the best possible prices unlike other book sites they make no effort to provide every book that is available or popular because frankly much of what is being printed is not worth your time that means you can get to the good stuff faster it also means you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic heretical and otherwise faith insulting materials promoted by the secular book vendors browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence at cumberland valley bible book service order online at cv bbs .com

01:52:08

that's cv bbs .com or you can order by phone at 1 -800 -656 -0231 that's 1 -800 -656 -0231 please let our friends at cv bbs know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio welcome back this is chris armson and our guest today for the entire program has been virgil walker we have been discussing how woke is the southern baptist convention we have mike from monroe new york who has a comment slash question i say that the primary reason for the christian compromise is number one cowardice number two fear of negative press number three fear of a loss of money particularly when it comes to academia four and a false sense of winning the culture and youth in particular what does my dear brother think about my observation this is about intimidation from the left and woke crowd blessings in christ from mike in monroe new york got a response to that uh virgil no i i i think i think mike mike is nailed it i'll treat it to the inverse and just simply say that while while there is a fear of of culture a fear of the woke mob a fear of all these things it really it really um what's really at the root of it at the root of it all is the pride of self it's actually the pride of self there's a great they think they know better than god's word declares and i can't say it more succinctly than that ultimately at the end of the day these these men who've decided that analytical tools are a resource for them believe that they know better than god i mean it's what do we do about issues of ethnic hatred and division prior to crt right did jesus just not have it all together was was was the message incomplete were the disciples just you know not not really clear about what to do until the late 1800s and early 1900s when when critical theory and critical race theory began to show up now now we can sufficiently address ethnic hatred between one another i mean who do these people think they are this is about pride this is an issue of pride they believe they know better uh these are the academicians uh these are the folks who who believe they've studied things in such a way that that that the average individual in the pew you just can't simply understand so that's why you're seeing the leadership within the sbc are the ones advocating and promoting these kinds of ideas now how dangerous is cancel culture it's kind of amusing actually that those who have been promoting cancel culture in the major media outlets like cnn and msnbc and other places now they're even saying that this is too close for comfort and hey this is getting out of hand this cancel culture stuff uh why is it uh especially dangerous when christians uh are being told to throw out heroes of the faith because of their imperfections uh great men of god who had their flaws and sins who uh own slaves and so on maybe maybe even defended the institution of slavery uh how do we react to this uh and say uh well just because they have believed and done some very horrible things and not all of them uh believed and acted as they are being accused by the way but right uh how should why is this dangerous and and i actually draw a a parallel between the way that vehement anti -calvinists are are baffled by reform baptists upholding john calvin as a hero when john calvin clearly was no fan of those that insisted on the rebaptized rebaptism of those who are already baptized but already baptized as infants he he despised that and uh one of the reasons that michael cervides was executed was that not only did he deny the trinity but he also was very opposed to infant baptism but anyway um why is this so dangerous well it's dangerous for a number of reasons one is it's a it's a lack of an understanding of the gospel it's a lack of understanding of the gospel and and and the gospel's role in in our own lives um you know we often hear quoted matthew chapter 7 judge not lest ye be judged right and and what that is not is that's not a refrain to say that that judgment can't be made but simply hypocritical judgment should not take place we still have a responsibility to judge ourselves to examine our own lives to see what kind of sinfulness is on the inside of us what cancel culture does is it it provides this pharisaical lens by which to ignore my own sin and for me to look at others as most sinful uh and so as a result then i'm able to from from the from the perch of my own self -righteousness decide who should and should not be canceled on the basis of my own personal preference so that's what that's what's actually happening and that's that's absolutely antithetical to what scripture says what the bible says uh to how we're to respond as as the beneficiaries of god's grace we've diminished the wrath of god which abides on each and every one of us and and and and that by exchange we've decided that somehow our works of righteousness allow us to look down our nose at a previous generation and their understanding or lack thereof of a certain issue so that's why it's problematic uh that's why we shouldn't engage in it i don't think we blindly you know uh uh adore some of these men of old i think we honestly look at their sinfulness at the at the reality of their lives scripture provides that for men like david and solomon and the list goes on and on and so i think we honestly assess the sinfulness of their lives as as at the while at the same time understanding that god used sinful men in those spaces and places and i think rightly discerned rightly divided rightly with clarity uh we can put them in the right place a place of honor for what they did right uh and and a place where we examine what they did wrongly honestly admit that call it for the sin that it is and keep moving forward but the idea that we can erase these men from history and no longer mention their names because someone's now offended by something that they said or did is absolutely ridiculous well we are out of time and i want to make sure that our listeners hear the websites once again that they will need to have in order to visit and attend the g3 conference that's g3 min .org