Reformation History

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of alpha the mega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 9 7 3 4 6 0 2 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James wife.

Reformation Sunday and the Coming Trip to Peru

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line last dividing line until well into November of 2010 which is only next week, of course, I will be in Lima Peru next week with heart cry ministries doing some pastoral training down there and Probably not going to be attempting to do remote dividing lines while While doing that so you'll we'll just have to pick it back up Week from next Tuesday, and that's exactly what we'll do.

Lord willing Looking forward to that. Of course. It is the 28th of October and for those of you who Aren't aware of this there's something special About this coming Sunday, and if you think that has anything to do with candy or costumes You're missing the point.

This coming Sunday is October the 31st now anyone in costumes looking for candy wandering by my house On that evening is gonna be sorely disappointed as they always are but especially so because I won't be there.

I.

Will be preaching in fact at the Phoenix before maps Church, but Far more than all of that silliness in our society October 31st is of course Reformation day. October 31st 1517 the date that history tells us was when Martin Luther nailed the 95 theses to the Wittenberg door and so we are going to be talking about The Reformation some today,.

Francis Turretin and the Later Reformed Tradition

I'm gonna be joined here in a few moments By our good friend turrets and fan, and we're gonna be talking about a a later reformer his. His well, he's a fan of him Francis Turretin. We're gonna be introducing him to you then the rest of program I'm gonna be talking about some of the backgrounds of Reformation, but before we get started today I wanted to play something for you.

I'm taken aback a little bit some of you may recall. Just over a year ago this past summer I blogged about meeting with Lacrae Tadashi and some other guys. They are Christian Hip-hop artists rappers.

I honestly don't even know difference between hip-hop and rap is I'll be perfectly honest with you about that I'm more of a Bach Beethoven Rimsky-Korsakov Acoustic guitar Doug Smith type guy when it comes to musical taste.

But I discovered right as I started tweeting at that point in time that Lacrae and the guys were watching my videos on their bus as they were on tour and I was I was amazed. Got got a chance to get together with them.

I.

Have been in contact with Shilin and and these guys are all reformed and they all listen to the program and and things like that and. So I was contacted recently by Javon McKenzie and Javon asked me to Record something for him and out of the book of Hebrews.

I've been preaching through Hebrews. I'm not to chapter 11 yet. It was from chapter 11 for an album that he's working on. And so I uh, I did that and So I sent that along and yesterday He sent me it's not the song that that's gonna be used for that what we recorded here using the studios from Hebrews 11 I think is gonna be ending the album, but he sent me one of the songs called pilgrim from this album and It's it is one of my sermons I assume.

It is my sermon from Hebrews chapter 2 at PRBC. I'm not a hundred percent certain but it's on Hebrews chapter 2 and It is. Well, I'm gonna play it for you. He said I could so I'm gonna play it for you.

This album is not yet out. I obviously will blog when it is. But here is what happens when you take I'm sorry I'm making history. Okay, that's good. We do that a lot in here. So here is here is a Reformed Baptist sermon on Hebrews.

Well, you just have to listen to yourself listen listen to the lyrics that Javon has has provided. After after my presentation here is a song called pilgrim. Into the gospel itself.

Christ ain't defeated. He came to earth and defeated death. He gave us salvation now. He's our Sabbath. You see we rest and now you see we bless only because he was cursed. We're justified by grace through faith not by any works.

Bless any man shall boast. Redifusions two and nine. Christ came and opened our eyes home because we was blind. The world is blind too. They don't see God's anger. They don't see Jesus as Lord. Just a baby in a manger.

See, there's a debt to pay we can't afford to pay him for God's people. Jesus came down and made our payment was made lower than angels. He came to suffer death, but he will resurrect and secure all his elect.

Eternal security. Salvation ain't temporary. Yes, we are walking with God, but yet we're being carried.

Although we don't see all things.

Salvation perfect new suffering. Jesus won't lose any sheep man. There's no such a thing. See, he is not ashamed to call his people brethren. He is bringing many sons under glory up in heaven. God gives his people to Jesus.

We don't just give ourselves. We don't just decide to love them. We don't repent by ourselves. He has to grant us repentance from his own free will. He has to quicken our spirit if he wants he will. And man is so evil just like the son of Sam.

We were born wicked. We need the Son of Man to take our heart of stone and give us a heart of flesh. Just to let the truth be known we was all I see in death. But then he breathed and breathed was there but now we live.

If you are saved today That means you were always his. When Jesus died He took the full cup of God's wrath. When he was crucified it was on our behalf.

Not just to get it started not just to get him on the road. But to complete it the ultimate destiny of himself. Oh, he may confess I can't do it apart from God and I need God's grace and all the rest of that stuff.

But what he won't confess. Well, there you go the book of Hebrews has been grossly misrepresented and there you have song called pilgrim Javon McKenzie, I will link obviously on the blog to that one. It all comes out because like I said, I I didn't know about that one.

I had just Had a request to read section Hebrews 11, which I did so that's different song and So The words are great. I Wouldn't be able to make them fit into it do that. I like I said, I'm Scottish. What do you want?

We have bagpipes so That's a completely completely different world there anyhow, so I wanted to play that for you because I I Like I said, I've had folks coming up to me at places all over though I had a couple and a black couple come to my presentation Thanks Rich just just showed up with a hat on sideways.

I appreciate that. It's still got the tag on it. That's really good. That looks That's good. Yeah, I've never worn that hat before had you all right good I had him show up where was I Great Falls Montana, right?

Is it Great Falls, Montana? Yeah, I can think Great Falls in Montana. Yeah, I think it's where it is. It's in one of those really unpopulated states up there is where I was and How did they know I was there?

They had heard about it from because they were fans of Lecrae as I recall, so It's been pretty pretty amazing it's it's good stuff. All right Reformation Day coming on the 31st. And so we wanted to do some historical stuff today.

Francis Turretin and Reformed Orthodoxy

We do have one call try to get to that call. It is somewhat relevant to the topic, but let's go ahead and Bring on our friend turrets and fan. Hi turrets and fan. Hello there. How are you? I'm doing well.

How are you? I've got a little bit of a high-pitched sound with turd and found not sure what that is I don't think it's turd and fan. It just sounds strange in my headphones, but Evidently you're too old to hear that out there.

That got his attention now he's listening very carefully so turds and fan We really wouldn't necessarily call Francis Turretin a reformer, but we would certainly call him one who carried on the the work of Reformation would that be a fair way of.

Looking at him. I believe so. Yes the if you if you look at his family tree. His grandfather was born also by the same name. Francis was born in 1547, right? So it's 30 years after the 1517 date that that's popularly used for the date of the Reformation, right?

So he's he's third or fourth generation and yet he is part of that process. That begins with with people like Theodore Beza the successor to Calvin there in Geneva of taking what was laid out in the foundation and Synthesizing it thinking it through dealing with the controversies, of course that had arisen since the days of Calvin in regards to Reform theology, would you would you accept the idea that that these later men? Changed Fundamentally the message or that they were just filling it out, which which do you think would be an accurate way of seeing it?

My view is that it the more accurate is Filling out. It's not a matter of reinventing anything. But filling it out and also dealing with controversies that the first-generation reformers didn't say it's like the Armenian controversy Calvin didn't see that later generation thought and The Amaraldean controversy would be one that would be in closer to Turretin's time.

What would you say?

Was his primary. Well actually before I go to there. We know him primarily from what sources today. I mean we know the the Institutes of Atlantic theology is is the primary source. Is that pretty much the only way we know him?

Or do we have other writings as well?

Well. The official works of Turretin are four volumes of which three are his Institute's and the fourth volumes a collection of various treaties traditions, but the fourth volume isn't translated into English so.

By far most people in the English-speaking world know him only through the Institute's or through an essay on justification or something like this, which would would be perhaps Taken not only from the Institute's but also some some part of it cleaned from his other works.

But there's also a few other works that have been translated into English from that fourth volume but generally very short items and the bulk of how he's known is through his Systematic theology in this form of these Institute's.

Well, what what what drew you to?

Adopt your moniker that that you use. What what about him? Why not Calvin fan or Bayes a fan or you know, what what what was? particular about him.

One one aspect that I liked about him was that he was a little bit more obscure than Calvin or Bayes.

And you're looking for obscurity is.

His son-in-law Benedict gave a eulogy for him sort of a eulogy sort of a memorial message about him when when his when his relative took Over the academic position that he had held there in Geneva and he spoke very highly of him.

But one of the things he emphasized is his own personal humility, and I think that that trait of Turreton is quite admirable. But as well one nice thing about about having as as your. To be the fan of someone it's nice to have to be the fan of someone obscure and that you'll be one of the few fans of that person.

Although actually there's there's quite a lot of fans of Turreton out there. Yeah. Yeah, there are now described from folks.

It might not be familiar with it. Not not. Many of us have the Institute's of Atlantic theology in our in our library. So We're talking about a work that's Longer than the Institute's the Christian religion.

What what kind of form is it in and what was its importance?

Well, the form that it takes generally is that it poses questions and gives an Argument in response. That's why it's called the Institute's of electric electric means in the form of an argument. This Institute's of electric theology there some people mistakenly think it's eclectic.

Like the guy debate he thought Synergistic was syncretistic and I had to sort of correct him on that. But anyway.

Small difference in words can make a big big difference. Yes, but in any event, so the. So the Institute's generally the format he follows is he states the question. He then says. We affirm or perhaps we deny.

Against the so-and-so where he'll fill in the blank. Maybe it's the Sassanians. Maybe it's the monstrance, maybe it's The Romanists whoever it is. He fills in the blank with you know. Here's who we affirm it against or here's who we affirm it with if he wants to be more positive.

And then he gives an explanation of why? Very briefly and in a very concise form. So sometimes he just it's just a matter of stating here's what our position is. Other times he spends more time and argues the position.

So he's addressing a lot wider a much wider variety of Objections to reform faith then then Calvin even would have faced.

Yes. Yes, he faces more objections and he spends time on areas. Maybe that Calvin hadn't spent as much time on because perhaps Calvin's work had already become fairly widely Accepted and already widely known so he didn't have to spend as much time on some of the fundamental aspects.

That Calvin spent his time on and was able to get into some more nuances. That Calvin hadn't had the pleasure of working on but also keeping in mind that the Institute's Calvin's Institutes were written quite early.

Initially written quite early in his career.

Oh, yeah, he was quite young when the first edition came out, but it grew a lot now. The issues that he is primarily focused upon you've mentioned some of them, but the vast majority of Evangelicals today wouldn't know what most of them were.

You mentioned the remonstrance? Flesh that out a little bit for us.

Well, the remonstrance of course are the Spiritual ancestors in some ways of the Arminians today. They had they were Generally Reformed initially, but then adopted certain and non Calvinist principles with respect to God's decrees so they began to assert that God's saving grace was resistible and they would also question whether or not the those who were blessed with saving faith could fall away.

And Some of course then ultimately didn't absolutely affirmed that such people whereas maybe the remonstrant movement didn't. Didn't have all those characteristics. The five points of the remonstrance the five issues they raised Have were responded to by the Senate of doors and that's how where we get our Acronym tulip from those five points.

Those are the Calvinistic responses to the five points of the remonstrance, even though historically they didn't put him the same order.

It would have not even made a nice acrostic the order they put him in but be that as. And then you also mentioned the Sassanians. What what? Why would that be relevant to him?

Well, I think That's an interesting question. This is Sassanianism is It's a non-trinitarian system and It became It became popular Among this what we'd call the radical Reformation that would go beyond the Reformation to a point that's sort of a point of absurdity the Sassanian what himself was apparently quite a vehement writer and a lot of his works ended up Serving.

Sometimes it seems to me when I'm reading some of the Reformers almost as though that's a Scarecrow that you want to steer people away now you're starting to sound like one of those Sassanian and and helps try to steer people away from that kind of view in fact.

One place that I read indicated that Sassanianism had sort of become Later later in time had sort of become a catchphrase for any kind of dissenting belief any kind of any Non-orthodoxy you start to call them just Sassanians.

Yeah, it really is is it's a rationalistic system pretty pretty early on and. It's denial the deity of Christ and and things like that. Yeah, it was easy to sort of use as a catchphrase and then you also mentioned one.

That's important to a lot of folks and that is and something you've done a lot of work on and that is the subject of Amaraldianism.

Yes, yes, he was. He was one of the leading one of his instructors. Friedrichs Bannheim was one of the leading opponents of Amaraldianism and he seemed to have picked up that torch and Carried it on in terms of defending the reform doctrine of the atonement.

That seemed to be the breaking point at which the Amaraldians Broke away from the Calvinistic view and the scriptural view was on this doctrine of the atonement. They wanted to make some aspect of the atonement a universal aspect.

Though they wouldn't say that everyone was redeemed and in terms of having been Having actually had their sins removed by the blood of Christ they would they did want to say that in some sense Christ died for everyone and and One of them.

One of the Favorite sections of Turdson's works is his section on the atonement and that section has was sort of separately translated Into English quite a while ago, and it has been in circulation for a long while.

I think you can even buy a separate volume from from at least two publishers on the Just a section on the atonement, but it's a very good read. It has a very thorough systematic discussion of that topic and that remains.

Something rather important to this day. You've had a fair amount of interaction with modern Amaraldians. Yeah.

They they still don't like Much, but you know, they they do at least appreciate that. He was although he was very firmly opposed to their doctrine he was still willing to count. He was willing to count them within the Taxonomy of reformed as opposed to Sassanian or Romanist or something like this.

He didn't he wouldn't classify them that far apart. But he certainly didn't accept their view of the atonement as as being the correct one, right, right.

So what would you say? Wrap up here a little bit. Would you say to those who would say that people like well starting with Beza, but especially someone like like Francis Turretin Is is the scholastic? Version of Calvinism that Calvin himself would not have recognized.

What what do you say to those who make that kind of an argument?

Well one. It's it's important to remember that although there's a there's an academic aspect to this. It's far from being purely scholastic. It's not if you're familiar with the categories that people talk about in this.

There's the humanist side and the scholastic side where the humanist Emphasizes learning the original languages studying the Hebrew and Greek books and deriving our theology from those and. The academic or the scholastic side is academic, but it's more focused on Use of reason and sometimes the reason almost spinning off in circles by itself.

He he's very academically rigorous. But he's always tied back to the Bible if you read through his treatise on the atonement For example, it's constantly going back to here's what the Hebrew word is for covering.

Here's the Greek word that's used to represent covering. Here's what? Here's what each of these words mean. Here's why the argument flow needs to flow the way that it does and He does draw scholastic distinctions.

He will say there are Only two kinds there are two types of knowledge that God has. There's natural knowledge and free knowledge and there's there can be no middle knowledge. So he's in a pain into that.

And you know, but what he draws those types of distinctions the way a scholastic Author would but but of course Calvin was familiar with those authors and Calvin was not opposed to drawing distinctions even if you know.

Sometimes he was just he wasn't it may be as systematic as church and was in terms of making everything into a branched Group of distinctions, but I think that's just because church is building on prior generations of work, right?

Yeah, I I sort of get somewhat upset when I I hear people like Beza or Turretin Dismissed out of hand and this is very popular amongst academics. They just dismiss them out of hand as sort of spiritless crusty shallow Formalizations of the more powerful Spiritually vibrant earlier generations, etc, etc.

Blah blah blah you get that a lot in seminaries and I think one of the reasons that people like Francis Turretin are as unknown as you indicated On the part of most people is because they're they're dismissed as just sort of you know.

Well, they were just formalizing and systematizing and and you know they they had pocket protectors and slide rules and who likes people like that basically is is how it's normally presented and I Don't think that's an accurate way of viewing them at all.

And it can be just as you can be just as passionate about a systematized presentation. Sure, we all know that there can be people like that. It doesn't mean that everyone who is is very concerned about crossing their T's and dotting their eyes is necessarily Lacking in passion or anything else and I think that'd be descriptive of of Turretin's work.

Yeah far from being.

Dispatched completely without passion. He was when the city of Geneva during his time ran into a budget problem and they couldn't repair the city walls. They needed they needed money to do this. They the funds of the state couldn't support it.

What they did is they sent Turretin on a fundraising mission to the throughout Europe. But primarily to Holland which was a better off and he went there. He was Well received. The people loved him. They tried to get him to stay there.

They would they didn't want him to get back to back to Geneva, but he insisted he wanted to come back that's where he had basically what he considered as home and. And he eventually came back. We have a few of his sermons left.

I think there's around a hundred that exist. In mostly are there in French, but not many have been translated in English and there is a project underway to translate them.

Good excellent. Well, thank you very much brother for joining us today. People were noting in channel that I wasn't asking you easy questions and yet you were handling them with aplomb. So. But of course anyone who calls themselves Turretin fan should probably be able to do that.

That's that would be a good thing. I mean if I called myself Rimsky-Korsakov fan, then I would expect people to ask me tough questions about Rimsky-Korsakov, which I would not be able to answer. That's why I don't call myself Rimsky-Korsakov fan.

But anyway Appreciate you're joining with us today and always appreciate all the work you do. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you All righty. God bless. Bye. Bye All right. So there you got some historical background a where else would you be able to get that kind of information?

Then here on the dividing line, we're gonna go ahead and Take this call and then I'm going to spend the rest of the well Let's take this one call and then I'll spend the rest of the time Doing some background on the Reformation.

If you all are going to be having maybe your church if you're in a church that even recognizes that it's Reformation Sunday. Count yourself blessed. Because the vast majority of evangelical churches this Sunday will be passing out Halloween decorations.

They won't be talking about the Reformation, unfortunately. But we'll be doing that after we talk with Hussein in Florida. Hi Hussein. Hey, Dr. White. Thanks for taking my call. Yes, sir.

I'm very very new to a reformed view of theology. I have a question in John 1712. When Jesus is praying and says and none of them is lost except the son of perdition that the scripture might be fulfilled I'm trying to relate that to John 6 44 was the son of perdition.

Originally drawn to Christ by the father. And if so, why was he lost?

No, the context the two is completely different. The point is that John 6 is talking about the elect of God and John 17 is talking about the disciples. And one of those disciples we know. It even says at the end of verse that the scripture might be fulfilled is called the son of destruction.

He is he has a specific name that is assigned to him because there is Old Testament prophecy concerning who he is and what his function is going to be in the betrayal of Christ and we see that the early church recognized very early on if you look at Acts 4 27 and 28.

That the roles of everyone from Pilate to Herod the Jews the Romans and Judas. Had all been clearly a part of divine revelation in prophetic form prior to this. And so the context of the of the two is different in John 6 you're talking about the people as a whole.

That are given by the father to the son for salvation in John 7 chapter 17 verse 12. You're talking specifically there about the 12 and then as you go down From that particular discussion because it talks about that they may have joy and so on and so forth I've given them your word.

They are not of this world. But then you'll notice after the prayer that they be sanctified in the truth so on and so forth. Then you have in verse 20 a transition. I do not ask for these only that is the 12.

But also for those who will believe in me through their word that they may all be one just as you father are in me. And I and you so verse 20 then recognizes that by means of the disciples. That gospel is going to be preached that is going to be used to draw all of God's people together into that one that you have in John chapter 11.

So it's just a recognition that the discussion of Judas. Even though he was in amongst the twelve he saw The miracles of Christ. Can you imagine what it was like to be to be Judas? I mean Judas is an is an incredible example of the fact that you can see all the miracles in the world.

But if your heart is not changed, none of that will change anything at all. I mean, what was it like to have such darkness? I think John was specifically trying to communicate something when when Judas went out.

To to go betray Jesus. There's this little phrase that John adds and it was night and That is descriptive of the time of day that it was. But I think there's more to it than that because here is a man whose darkness was so deep.

His love of money so controlling that In spite of walking with the very incarnate Son of God for multiple years He could betray him for 30 pieces of silver and then even upon recognizing what he had done Does not know him well enough to realize as Peter did that there could be repentance.

This is he was the son of perdition. This was what was prophesied of him and I it's amazing how many Christians I've encountered over the years that are just absolutely insistent that Judas is in heaven.

Because they cannot begin to wrap their minds around the justice of God in having someone called the son of perdition. The son of destruction they can't see how that could be a possibility. So he is a very interesting Interesting case study no two ways about it.

Okay, all right, well I will replay this episode of Dividing Line 47 times and study it.

Thanks a ton in a careless moment. All right. Little bit of background on the subject of the Reformation. And I do this Primarily so that if your church does do something. This coming Sunday if if you know I'm gonna be preaching on the solas and I'm gonna be talking about some Luther and so on so forth on Sunday morning.

If that happens to your church. One of the I think one of the reasons that the Reformation seems so distant to many of us and I sort of started this Last evening at PR BC. I spoke in the Wednesday evening service and I I did some background issues primarily on Luther.

I'm gonna continue that on Sunday morning with some of the historical background. I Think one of the reasons that we we sort of have Reformation Sunday and then we just move on part of it's because we're going into the holiday season and we get distracted with other things.

I understand that. But part of it is because we we struggle to really appreciate the historical context of the Reformation and as such the danger is that we end up having these slogans. And that's what they become is just slogans sola fide and sola gratia and soli deo gloria.

Solus Christus and solo scripture. We they just become slogans to us because we don't realize we have a hard time understanding why how it could be and Why it would be that men would be willing to risk their lives.

For these things now most people don't realize that out of the Academy in Geneva a Steady stream of men Came forth during the 16th century trained in the scriptures and They many of them marked a straight line South a straight line south, you know, what's south of Geneva?

Italy and.

The vast majority of them were murdered by the Roman Church. They became martyrs seeking to proclaim the gospel in that very dark land which remains a very dark land this day, by the way. And We wonder why We wonder why people were willing to Go to the mat to risk their lives to place everything out there for these slogans if that's all we think they are.

One of the things you need to understand. I should have brought the book in with me. It's actually sitting at my desk. That's okay. Al Mohler repeats a a story from Heiko Obermann. I.

I.

Attended a Graduate seminar at Heiko Obermann's house way way back. This was 89 90 somewhere around there. He was teaching church history at the University of Arizona in Tucson and.

I.

That particular Session was was on Saddle Edo's letter to the Genevans. It was fascinating, but Heiko Obermann was a a real scholar in the period of Reformation and Al Mohler tells the story about Obermann lecturing one day to his students and.

He stopped and he said I can discern that you all do not understand what I am saying. You don't get. What I am saying about Luther and his motivations and the reason is That you go to bed at night With a full stomach.

Primarily thinking about what you're going to wear the next day where you're going to go what's going to be happen. You are Westerners and You don't live the life. That Martin Luther and everyone else in Europe lived in this early 16th century.

When Martin Luther nailed those 95 theses to the castle church door at Wittenberg the average person in his day when he went to bed at night did not go to bed with a nice full stomach unless you were in the ruling class and Your primary hope was that you would not die during the night.

The plague had swept through Europe only a few hundred years earlier and taken a third of everyone. Imagine what that was like if one-third of everyone, you know disappeared. Died of a horrible plague and it kept popping up.

The plague was still around. Calvin survived the plague in Strasbourg. Ulrich Zwingli survived the plague. In in in Zurich. Normally when the plague would strike everyone would leave the cities. They didn't know why that was necessary.

They just knew that you had a better chance living out in the in the outlying areas and you did in the city. We now know why? That was the case how the bubonic plague was spread, but they didn't know that then and So in many areas a woman would have to have ten live births.

To get one child through to maturity. The infant mortality rate was sky-high. You saw death Regularly, you knew about death. Death was all around you and as a result you thought about eternity. You recognized your own mortality.

We live in a day Where our society has managed to produce Spiritual Novocaine, it's spiritual Novocaine. It is now by the way. I'm not the Heiko Obermann didn't say all this stuff. I've gone well past that now but he was making the point the reason that the issues that Motivated Luther don't motivate us today is because we live in a different world.

And we live in a world where as I was saying We have developed spiritual Novocaine. We don't think about eternal things. We don't think about death. We hide death away and so issues of eternity Mean nothing to many of the people in our society.

We find them to be cold to discussions of sin and judgment and justification. Because we're primarily concerned about our next vacation and the clothes we're gonna wear and the car we're gonna drive. We do not think about eternity for many reasons.

For many of our secularist friends, it's because we don't think there is an eternity. We're nothing but a highly evolved mammal and Therefore there's no reason to talk about Eternity or judgment or standing before God?

But even in our most honest moments when we admit that we know that there's going to be a judgment. We have placed these things so far beyond us death is not something that's imminent even though we have to admit that every time we get into that car and Go down the road Somewhere in the back of our mind is the recognition that we may not we might not make it home.