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Kathy Keller and Psa 2
Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.
Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.
Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry, always liberal, always social gospel, always not telling the truth at the beginning. Welcome, Steve. How are you? I�m great. How are you, Michael? I�m great, Michael.
Steve, you actually got some sleep last night, so that was good.
I did. I feel like a million dollars after taxes, so about 75 cents. Oh, okay.
I actually feel really good. Are we supposed to be getting more of our money back this year? Is that true? That was the rumor. It didn�t work out so well for me. I don�t think it�s working out for me at all.
Oh, you know what? Actually, it won�t take effect. We won�t actually see it until next year. Huh. Okay. So, but yeah. I mean, theoretically, yeah. Is that like a day-age deal? A day with the IRS is like a thousand years for you, so.
Did you know, when it comes to lessons learned from 30 years of ministry, city to city, Tim Keller�s wife, Kathy, a Gordon Conwell graduate, said, �Another discovery we made was that spontaneity was alarming to New Yorkers who were nervous about even attending church.
Did you know that? I remember reading that article and just hating it.
Well, I�ve already done two shows on it, but I never got to this part. Combined with the value that excellence is inclusive, let�s see.
Excellence is inclusive. Well, see, there�s a word I just hate right away, inclusive, not excellence.
Could this be some type of common grace maybe or something? This led directly to the production of a very hefty Sunday morning worship bulletin with all the hymns included, all the prayers written out, everything there so everyone knew what was going to happen next.
There wasn�t going to be any unannounced snake handling. If it wasn�t in the bulletin, it did not happen. Of course, you can�t control everything, and I remember the time I was sitting in the back pew and a woman sitting next to me turned to me and said, �Who is that woman down there waving to
I looked, it was during a song, and I said, �I think she�s waving to God, just someone who felt like raising his or her hands, which my pew mate had never seen before.
Just waving to God. I think he�s waving to God. Just waving. �Hey, how�s it going
Oh, and the time a woman brought her lapdog to church, Tim came home and said, �Well, I preach the gospel to every creature. We�ve also had a burglar that came running through our hospitality hour. The police cuffed him and threw him over the hood of the car behind the one where all my kids were sitting, looking like the first reality TV show.
That�s another story. Other communities may be more tolerant of spontaneous events than the Manhattanites we were reaching, but that�s why contextualization is so important. You have to learn what will create difficulties for the non-Christians who hear the gospel, good news of Christ Jesus, and remove those, whatever they are, however precious they may be to you.
Just take them out. August Moon is calling you.
Don�t call your church Bible Church, because people don�t like the Bible.
I don�t think we should call it church, maybe. Oh, yeah. Maybe we do what? What should we call it? The Rock. Oh. Hey, okay, here�s a fun one. Steve, there�s all kinds of different names for churches. I�ve seen one in Santa Cruz called Collide.
Maybe like the worldviews colliding or something. You know, interesting.
I thought it was like Kaleidoscope. The K.
No, this is a C. And there�s, what are some other ones that are like that?
Is there, there�s something like Prism or something? Yeah.
Yeah. Reality, journey, focus.
See, I like the Rock, because then you could say we are people of the Rock. Oh. See, that�s. Uh-huh.
Prudential. Yeah. Uh-huh. Anyway, I was down in, let�s see, I was on the Cape, Cape Cod. And there are churches down there. I think Cape Cod Bible Alliance, Cape Cod Bible Church, Cape Cod Bible Fellowship.
The Shark. The Shark. The Mussels. Oysters. Can you imagine? What�s the name of your church? I go to The Shark. And this last Sunday, I was preaching Hebrews chapter 5, verse 9, �And Jesus is the source of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him, i .e. believe.
Well, the source, the cause. That�s what that word means, �cause. Guess what the church name was? The Cause. The Cause. Uh-huh. The Wave. And it was not spelled C-O-S. C-A-U-S. Oh, I see. The Cause.
The Cause. Where do you go? The Cause. Out of all the causes you can have in your life, this is the cause? The Cause. Uh-huh. It�s not a cause. It�s not just a general cause. It�s just not �cause. Uh-huh.
This is a definite article cause. But seriously, who would come up with that?
Probably the same kind of character that came up with Bethlehem Bible Church.
Well, actually, no. See, I think Bethlehem Bible Church, that�s poor marketing there.
I�m over the name in the sense that it kind of bothers me, and I�ve wanted to change it for years. A, I don�t know what to change it to, and since we aren�t moving geographic locations, we shouldn�t change it.
But I just think, okay, Bethlehem, House of Bread, okay. Bread�s like nourishments, you know, sustenance. How about Westminster Chapel? How about it? Well, that little, you know, chapel next to it where the divine sat, I think it was called St. Mary�s.
Hmm. Well, I don�t want to be a St. Mary�s. That kind of sounds funny. I mean, in England, I guess it would be okay in the 1640s.
Actually, you know, St. Mary�s might pack them in. Everybody would assume we�re Catholic.
Do you know what? And then we would, I would put the prayer shawl on from last show. I only want the one with purple, and then we could have the remembrance wear, knock them out of the park. Purple and gold.
So it�s kind of like Lakers. Uh-huh. Just subtle. Yeah. Who are some of the Laker visitors? You know, Mr. T could be there. Well, we could just hire Mr. T for a week. That�d pack him in.
Bring in a Jack Nicholson impersonator?
Yeah. I think Mr. T actually says he�s a Christian, and of course he could be. I don�t know.
But he�ll, I pity the fool who doesn�t believe he�s a believer. Oh, I know. I know. Denzel Washington? Maybe he�d do it. Hmm. Well, he could certainly be the equalizer around here.
I knew something like that was going to happen. I think we�ve told our listeners before, a MacArthur Study Bible just came out, and Denzel was on a studio set, and he was reading something. And a Grace Community Church member who used to go to our Bible study, and they were a grip or a stagehand or whatever you call the different, you know, lighting people, and went up to Denzel and said, you know, �Oh, what are you reading
He said, �I�m reading a Bible. And I think Denzel�s dad was or is a pastor, and I think more of kind of mainstream. And Denzel said, �No, not really. You know, the whole, you know, Acts 8, do you understand what you�re reading?
�No, not really. And so he said, �Well, my pastor just has written a lot of notes to make understanding the Bible easier, and the notes are down at the bottom, and it�s called a study Bible. If I were to get you one, would you read it
He said, �Yes. So he was given a MacArthur Study Bible. Wow. You never know. Hmm. Mm-hmm.
That�s an evangelistic strategy. Do you understand what you�re reading? Well, it works, apparently, you know.
Is there anything else here that I wanted to say about this Kathy Keller article? Number five, remember, she�s given 30 years of ministry hints, �I�ve saved my most important value for last. Okay, well, then that�s� The most?
Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean.
This is not a cause. This is the cause. Okay. So this is the creme de la creme. This is the peak of the article.
How do you describe 30 years of gospel ministry in Manhattan? Right? I didn�t say Brooklyn, I didn�t say the Bronx, I didn�t say Staten Island, right? I didn�t say Queens. Manhattan. I said Manhattan.
Okay. Did I get all the boroughs right?
I have no idea. I try to avoid knowing about New York.
We had some people from Brooklyn here on Sunday. Did you? Yeah. We. Oh, we. Yeah, yeah. I thought they said Brookline. And I said, �Oh, JFK was born in Brookline. They said, �Brooklyn.
Did you ask if they�re Dodger fans? Because if they�re real, you know, if they�re really from Brooklyn� Dodgers. Yeah. Right.
Waiting for the Dodgers to come back. I�ve saved my most important value for last. Okay. Okay. Lay it on me. Carefully screening our language is the most critical thing we can do. Steve just gave me the kook look.
What? Kukla, Fran, and Ollie. Remember them? Careful. Yes. Carefully with Sherry Lewis, wasn�t it? Kukla, Fran, and Ollie. And what was the name? What was your voice?
Lamb chop. Yeah. Let�s see. Okay. So, after 30 years of ministry, I could write one. After 21 years, I�ve saved my most important value for last, the exposition of God�s Word highlighting the person and work of Christ.
Carefully screening. Our language would be hers.
Well, shouldn�t she carefully screen her language and maybe make it biblical?
Shouldn�t she take her own advice? Well, maybe she�s going to explain this. Okay. All right. Here we go.
Good enough. Quote, �I can�t find enough words to stress how important this is. Okay. All right. So, it�s very important. Very. We must have a care for how we choose our words, our images, and our ideas when we communicate, no matter what we�re communicating.
Now, get this. Is she going to solemnly charge us before?
Uh-huh. And then I think she translates the Kai as �even. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God, even the Lord Jesus. Wow. Yeah. That�s, well, I think she learned that at Gordon. Okay. Okay.
No matter what we�re communicating, whether it�s donor updates. A what? Well, you can order those right after the prayer shawls and remembrances.
Like if I gave you a kidney, then you give me a donor update? Yeah.
Well, you really want to make sure you�re specific in your communication because that is the most important value. After people have given you a kidney, there�s certain ways to go about it. Okay. Donor updates, lectures, or emails about events that are coming up.
You absolutely must, italicized, comb out all the Christian subcultural phrases that clutter up so much of the Christian church. This is vitally important, and perhaps it�s even more important today than it was 30 years ago, because the cultural movement that we are in now loathes evangelical Christians, and we don�t need to give them any more reason to disrespect and dislike us.
Oh, so get rid of words like sin, repentance, things like that. Yeah. Christian. Okay. Yeah. Evangelical. Repent.
Bible. Yeah. Six-day creation. Okay. Good. Redeemer has been pretty good at this, partly because it was actually, I have to turn the page, one of the major parts of my job description to search and destroy any pious babble.
That�s a word she�s got there, pious babble. That�s the word I coined to describe language that must not be spoken. You�ve heard of psychobabble, the pop psychology drawn from catchphrases, media, podcasts, pontification, and other non-academic sources.
Pious babble are those phrases and words that creep into your prayers.
Well, yeah, I agree with that. Lord, we just, we just, Lord, yeah. What does it have to do with anything?
It�s like a non-sequitur. We�ve got to comb through all this stuff, and then now we don�t want to say Lord all the time in our prayer.
We want to bathe it in prayer. Okay, now, if she�s just talking about, you know, phrases that are overused and really get a little bit obnoxious, okay, sure. Like, I would agree. We just want to bathe it.
We want to baptize that in prayer. We�re going to hold it under the water in prayer. We�re going to submerge that in prayer. We�re going to do what? How about if we just bring it before the Lord? I think that�s fine.
All right, you ready for this one, Steve? I don�t know if I�m ready or not. A couple paragraphs later. Okay. Back when we had the missions committee, one of the guys in charge saw Fitch write an article based on Psalm 2, 9 to 12.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron. Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter�s vessel. Be wise, therefore, O King. Serve the Lord with fear. Kiss the son lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way when his wrath is kindled.
But a little blessed are all they that put their trust in him. Sounds like some pious babble. No, no, no, no. He went on to talk about Jesus trampling out the grapes of wrath, et cetera, et cetera. It was totally not the Redeemer voice or philosophy of ministry.
So Psalm 2 is... Psalm 2. I mean, when you look at Psalm 1 and 2 as kind of the gateway to the Psalms, I think those Psalms were put there intentionally. If you'd like to know who the ultimate man is in Psalm 1, it's answered in Psalm 2.
Say you don't want any of that kind of Jesus high and lifted up and ruling and smashing. You don't want any of that stuff.
No, that's too... I mean, really, this is shocking. I have to say, I still regret the harshness with which I raked that young man over the coals, even done tactfully. It couldn't be tolerated, not for a minute.
It was not just our outward face to have that kind of believe or burn kind of attitude.
Okay, so why? Well, obviously the pastorina had to take control of the situation.
Okay, and this is number five. This is the most important thing is this kind of talk. And okay, if you don't want to say, Lord, every other word, Lord, and say, Lord, too many times, Lord, when you're praying, Lord, I get that, Lord.
I really do, Lord. Oh, do, Lord. But Psalm 2, what's the one Psalm in the middle of Obergefell and everything else, or the chaos of the world, or nuclear bombs, or anything? Would somebody just please preach Psalm 2, and I would be happy.
Yep, because God looks at them with derision, right?
He sits in heaven, he's laughing. He's laughing at the Manhattanites' self and how the unbelievers there, how they trust in themselves, and trust in their money, and trust in their academics, and trust in their highfaluting Broadway skills, and plays, and all that stuff.
He has them in derision, and he's laughing.
We can't say that? No, no, because you'll offend people. They won't like it a bit if you put them down. Or even, actually, I think if you just picture the Lord Jesus Christ in his rightful place, right?
That's pious babble, apparently. Unless this is a misquote, maybe my printer went bad or something when I was printing this from medium .com. Forward slash redeemer city to city lessons learned from 30 years in ministry, how anyone can think this is right and good and model their ministry after Redeemer, how this kind of philosophy of ministry can then still be taught when they invite Keller to Westminster, Philly and down to, you know, RTS.
You've got a lot of campuses to fill, so you want to have the Tim Keller people fill it. This is crazy, in my opinion.
Well, that sounds like pious babble to me. Well, let me ask you this. Do you think, you know, his success, would you say it's based more on personality than….
Yeah, well, I'm sure, you know, I remember sitting in the car once with MacArthur and he said, Rick Warren could be an Episcopalian and the church would be huge. Bill Heibel is a great manager, and so whatever, I mean, if he's a fundraiser for the United Way, it would work, right?
These men have skill sets with common grace, and they're just good at what they do. So, I think it's the same thing. I'm sure Keller is a smart man, and he understands it, and he's probably, you know, a wonderful personality and, you know, can take over a room and all these things.
But what she goes on to say, let's exegete the people, let's not say what they don't want to hear, and let's adjust everything to the culture versus Paul goes in in Acts 17 and basically says, there's so much paganism here, I want to throw up.
Well, Ray Davies, if he were to start a church, he would say, give the people what they want.
And the other day I was looking through some old, you know, Kinks albums on Spotify or something, and I just thought, are they alive? I think they are. It can't be tolerated. Kiss the son, lest he be angry with you, and you perish in the way when his wrath is kindled.
And then, Steve, how does it end? Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. This kind of thing cannot be tolerated.
It's pretty unbelievable. You know, I mean, I even object to just the title of it. You know, lessons learned from 30 years of ministry. If she wanted to say, you know, the observations of a faithful pastor or something like that, I'd go, okay, I get that.
But if you're going to tell me these are the things I have learned in my 30 years of ministry in New York City, well, then I think you must be the pastor. You must be it. And that she had that much power where she could dress down, you know, people, that says a lot to me.
It says, this article is based on a talk given to the staff of Redeemer City to City. So this is what she's told them. She says one or two sentences after that. In the early years, we trained ourselves rigorously not to make any decision based on what we liked or what we enjoyed or felt comfortable with.
Okay, that part's okay. But on how it would be appraised and received by skeptical New Yorkers. This is exactly what we don't want anyone to do in gospel ministry. And the men were training here and sending out to preach.
This is exactly what you should not do. Pete. Well, you don't want to chase away the.
Seekers. I mean, this basically, we're going to let the depraved determine how we speak, how we teach, and what we do here.
John. Every single man that I hold in esteem, let's start first with the Bible. They were given a charge by the king and said, go herald this charge. And you are irrelevant. And what you think about these people is irrelevant.
And you have to be faithful and discharge your duty, right? Gird up your loins. Be a man. It has nothing to do with male, female. It has to do with courage and delivery. And you know what? Okay, the Thessalonians, they didn't really like what Paul had to say.
The Bereans, no, they didn't kind of like it. The church at Ephesus, you know, the Corinthians. We don't want to say, you know, that little hill up there where the 1 ,000 prostitutes come down every Friday night for worship.
Let's see, how can we talk about this in such a way that we're not like rake them over the...
Pete. How many times was Paul beaten? How many times was he jailed? How many times was he running for his life, right? Well, if he'd just followed this advice, he'd have been fine. John. Now.
Pete. Nobody would have been upset. Tempted to follow this advice. With repentance, we have followed that advice. I mean, we're all far from perfect in our discharge of the duties. But when I look over at my bookshelf here and look at the biographies, no one up there that I respect did that.
Nobody does that. How about, you know, Machen? Yeah, yeah, Machen did that. I mean, nobody does. Adoniram Judson, does he do that? William Carey, does he do that? Charles Hodge? John Payton? Yeah, those men had their problems, but this was not their underlying thing that they would write about and then still teach.
I would say, you know, when I got to New England, I think I softened X, Y, and Z, and I tried to read the culture too much and talk about the gospel in light of the culture. I mean, I don't think I did that, but I would be prone to do it.
Pete. Don't you want to become all things to all people? John I would like to be a rich person when it comes to rich people. Famous when it comes to famous. That principle is a nice principle.
Pete. We talk, you know, behind the scenes, we talk about the difference between elder rule and congregational rule, and I'm going to argue that this philosophy of ministry put forth by Kathy Keller is really unbeliever rule, right?
They're putting the unbelievers in charge of what will be said and what will be done, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Forget about what the Lord says, forget what even the saved people want.
We're after the people who otherwise would not darken the door of a church.
John Steve, when I got here to Bethlehem Bedlam Bible Baptist Church, I said something about the bulletin, and I mean, I was writing the bulletin at the time, and the secretary would type it up, and I said, you know, we're having a Christmas outreach concert, bring your unbelieving friends.
I got chastened by one of the elders for writing unbelieving friends. Because of this type of philosophy. They were pre-believers. Yeah, yeah, pre-Christians. And it's like, okay, wait a second, bring your unbelieving friends.
And if I talk to an unbeliever, are you a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, and are you trusting in His sufficient life and death confirmed by the resurrection for your eternal life? No. Okay, so unbeliever, a-believer, alpha privative, so you're an unbeliever.
But see, if an unbeliever got a hold of what you were saying there in the program, they might be offended and then not come to the Christmas concert.
I, yeah, they might actually take offense. Hey, I'm not a believer. And by the way, how would I know who's a believer and who isn't? It's just so crazy. Nothing about this do I think is good and right and wholesome.
This attitude permeates throughout this type of, I think it's a man-centered pragmatism. Is it not pragmatism? It is absolutely pragmatism. Sorry, people-person pragmatism.
It is. I mean, you are, what they've done is they've accommodated themselves to the culture. They've submitted themselves to the culture. They've determined to know nothing among the people of New York except what the people of New York want them to know.
Now, I hope I read this right, Steve, because as you just said that, and I was thinking of Psalm 2 again, it was totally not the voice, our philosophy of ministry, the Redeemer voice. And she kind of even makes fun of Jesus trampling out the grapes of wrath, etc., etc.
She says it twice. Even done tactfully, she's talking about how she would rebuke the man. It couldn't be tolerated, not for a minute. It was just not our outward face to have that kind of believer-burned kind of attitude.
I guess they must never talk about the Day of Judgment, right? They're probably amillennial, right? But they would never ever talk about the Lord Jesus coming and returning and setting up. I'm sure Tim Keller has.
Is Kathy mad at that? I mean, you know, I've been there at Grace Church before where I've invited friends, and MacArthur's got up and said, essentially, turn or burn. That's the message. The good news is you deserve burning, but God loves sinners like you, so turn.
And I feel the uncomfortableness when John's saying that, but what am I supposed to do? Just say amen and cheer him on. I think you turn from any kind of ministry that spouts this nonsense.
Life-transforming power of God's Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text. Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston.
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