April 5, 2021 Show with Dr. Carl Trueman on “The Rise & Triumph of the Modern Self” PLUS Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this fifth

day of April 2021.

And I'm so thrilled to have back on the program Dr. Carl R. Truman, esteemed

church historian who previously served as the William E. Simon Fellow in Religion and Public

Life at Princeton University, author or editor of more than a dozen books, including

The Credal Imperative, Luther on the Christian Life, and Histories and Fallacies, and

currently professor of Biblical and Religious Studies at Grove City College in Grove City,

Pennsylvania.

Today we are going to be addressing his brand new book, The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self,

Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Carl Truman.

It's great to be here, Chris.

Thanks for having me on.

Oh, it's great to have you on.

And I'm also thrilled to have joining me as a co -host for the first half hour, while Dr.

Truman is with us, and also transferring over to my guest for the remaining 90 minutes of

the program we have today, Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington, who is pastor of Faith

Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Fawn Grove, Pennsylvania.

He's an author, a conference speaker, vice president of the board of directors for the Reform Forum, and

article editors for the Confessional Presbyterian Journal.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to the program, Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington.

Oh, it's always a pleasure to be here.

Amen.

It's great to have you on all the time, brother.

And I want to give our email address immediately, because Dr.

Truman can only be on with us for the first 30 minutes of the program during previous

scheduled appointments that he had.

So, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail

.com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live

outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And before I even ask a question, I just want to read a really powerful endorsement for this book by my

friend, Rosaria Butterfield, who has been a guest on Iron Trump and Zion Radio a number of times,

and has written a glowing endorsement for this radio program as well.

But Rosaria Butterfield, who, by the way, if anybody listening is unfamiliar with her, she is a

former lesbian and also a former leftist professor at Syracuse

University, and she doesn't mind that description.

She is very open about her left -wing fanaticism at one time before coming to Christ.

But she says, this is a characteristically brilliant book by Carl Truman helping the church

understand why people believe that sexual difference is a matter of psychological

choice.

What was the most compelling factor that you saw happening

around us today?

Not only the things and the issues that challenge the body of Christ,

but even things that are corrupting our world in general that led

you to the point that said, I've got to sit down and begin writing an answer to the rise and

triumph of the modern self.

What were the catalysts involved in that?

I think, above

all, it was

when Bruce

Jenner slash

Caitlyn

Jenner came out

as

transgender,

and it became obvious that gay marriage in the culture for

the previous decade, really, that gay marriage was not going to be the end of the revolution at this point,

but it

stayed in

the

book,

wasn't it,

for

a long time.

Yeah, one thing that fascinated me when I was broadcasting live out of New York

years ago from 2005 to 2010, actually,

when I had addressed the issue, or should I say, most of the time when I had addressed the

issue of homosexuality with a guest who had written on the subject, or perhaps I was interviewing a

former homosexual or whatever the case may be, there was a listener on Long Island

who would frequently call in when we actually had call -ins rather than email

questions from the audience, but a guest would call in who was a

licensed professional psychiatrist who was openly

identifying himself as a liberal and most things political, and yet

he knew that there was something tragically wrong with homosexuality and something that was

tragically dangerous about it to the human psyche and to humans in general,

and he saw that there was a lot of dishonesty going on in the world in regard to this, including it being

entirely removed from the psychiatric journals as a mental disorder, but

so there are people even outside of our conservative Christian circles that are

viewing this issue in quite a startled and

disturbed way, aren't they?

Oh yes, yes, and I

think that the

book I look

at in many

ways are

very courageous.

Yeah,

it's

quite

fascinating

how

sometimes things arise where the most conservative of.

Evangelical Christians and even fundamentalists find themselves side by side with feminists

on issues.

In fact, it was pretty much for decades we were in agreement on

many things involving pornography, being mutually opposed to it, and now

the transgendered issues where women are being stripped of their rights, ironically,

and even you have people who identify themselves as homosexuals being opposed to much of the

transgender movement's activism,.

Aren't they?

Oh yes, I mean I joked to friends that you know you're getting a good

goodie,

not a

badgie, but

you're

up to a year or

two

ago.

So you

would

actually

describe

what's.

Going on as a revolution, I know.

Can you tell us something about the architecture of the.

Revolution?

Yeah,

debating the

limit

of

the

idea

of

debate.

Now

we're

going

to expand

highly

by

whether

being

fundamental to who we are.

We see that really gaining pace in the 18th century with the French philosopher Jean

-Jacques Rousseff's romanticism.

In the 19th century, we see major assault on the idea that moral

shit comes in different forms.

Karl Marx attacks it from a kind of Hegelian position that changes over time.

Nietzsche just gets rid of the whole metaphysics of human

nature

and it's only a

matter

of

time.

And I

know that

Dr. Jeffrey C.

Waddington loved.

Your book, and I know he's chomping at the bit to ask a question, so

especially since Dr. Truman can only be on with us for 30 minutes, why don't you ask what's on your mind

before we run out of.

Time?

Sure.

Yeah,

synthetic,

drawing, Gnostic

development,

Gnostic

-like

development,

psychological,

give us some broad strokes.

Yeah, and I think the key issue there,

Jeff, and that is that authorization of that,

think about

that statement.

I'm

pretty

sure that

was

not

the case, Jeff.

I'm pretty sure it

wasn't.

I don't doubt that either, Jeff, but you know, it's the sign of the...

Well, I have seen Jeff kill and eat a squirrel with his bare hands, so

I'm just...

The very fact that

your

bodies are not

things that we

inhabit, like we inhabit a house or a suit of clothes.

Our bodies are actually who we are in a deep, profound way.

And being that we're bodies also means, yes, who we are is, we are

those who are totally

dependent, we become more

independent,

complete,

and

that's

a

good...

We need to

hold on to

it.

We tell ourselves things in emotions,

actually incapable of accounting for...

We have a listener who happens to be a dear friend of mine dating back to the 1980s.

Her name is Dr. Latane C. Scott.

She is an author herself, and I've

been pleased and blessed to have her as actually a guest on my program a number of times.

And she has written, among her many books, she has co -authored

Talking with Teens About Sexuality and Protecting Your Child from Predators.

She co -authored those with Dr. Beth Robinson, and she was so excited that you were going

to be on the program today, and she has submitted two questions for you.

Dr. Latane C. Scott says, I know that Carl and Rod

Dreher are colleagues.

I greatly admire the thinking of both, and I thank you, dear friend Chris, for having Carl on

your show.

I would like to hear Carl's thoughts about the mechanics of forming a dissident

body or bodies of believers.

That's her first question.

Yeah, it's an interesting one, and I mean, I think

that

is, I do

think it's

very difficult for Christians, impossible,

which

must

be the

site look

different

in what we engage in hospitality.

I think

when I grew up,

aligned with the biblical ethic, even though, but we can

no longer make that assumption, so I

think very proactive.

And Dr. Scott also says that she was reading chapter two.

Of the Gulag Archipelago, and how the Russian government efficiently shut down all

dissidents, given that surveillance has gone far beyond 100 years ago, and is now an

advanced art in the 21st century world.

How can we expect that dissident Christians can survive?

It's fair, and that's a very interesting question, because -.

Thank you for your excellent questions, Latane, and please give me your full mailing address in Albuquerque, New Mexico, because

you have just won a free copy of The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self, compliments to our

friends, or of our friends, I should say, at Crossway, and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, who will be actually shipping that book out to you

once we have your full mailing address.

We have, I believe, a first -time questioner, but I'm not 100 sure, Johnny in

Ocala, Florida.

Johnny asks, now this is a question that could get you and Jeff in a lot of trouble,

but I'll have you both answer it.

Has the Orthodox Presbyterian Church been infiltrated with any of the sexual identity issues?

I guess what he means by that is people affirming the LGBTQ

community's definitions and so on, and instructions and

dictates, I'm assuming that's what he means, but I'll start with you, Dr. Truman.

Do you care to answer that?

I'm not aware of

that.

Now, Jeff,

he's

probably

maybe

dealing

with

this,

I guess,

dramatic,

that

movement.

Now,

Johnny

has

a

question for

Dr.

Truman,

a

second

question,.

That I think is an inside joke, perhaps, but he says, Dr. Truman, have you ever

had a student.

That was as culturally hip, HIP, as Charles Williams?

Well, Johnny in Ocala, Florida, give me.

Your full mailing address, because you have also won a free copy of The Rise and Triumph of Modern Self,

Compliments of Crossway, and CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

Make sure we have your full mailing address in Ocala, Florida, and if you are a first -time questioner, you'll also get a

free New American Standard Bible as well, so make sure that you give us your mailing address.

Jeff, I know that Dr. Truman has to leave shortly, so I'll give you.

The honors of

asking

him

a final

question.

Thank

you,

Dr.

Truman,

for

an excellent

contribution to.

Our program today.

Do you have, in a minute or so, before you leave, any summary of what you want.

Most etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today?

I think a couple of things.

One, I'd want something played

out in

front of our eyes.

It's the

result of a

long stage, so that's not a

cause.

One is, and

then

the second

ground for

hope, of course,

is the obvious one, at the

gates of

hell.

Amen.

Well, Dr. Truman, I

hope that you

could come

back

as a guest

soon and

often on the program, and hopefully next time

for a longer portion of the two -hour show.

Amen.

God bless you,.

Brother.

And we are going to be continuing this subject with our co -host,

Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington, and if anybody else wants to join Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington

with a question on this subject that we are continuing for the remaining 90 minutes, our email address is

chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, for the G3

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avino, and thanks for listening.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, we were privileged with the presence of Dr. Carl Truman

on our program for the first half hour to discuss his new book, The Rise and Triumph of the Modern

Self, Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to

Sexual Revolution.

And we are continuing that subject with a mutual friend

of Dr. Truman's and mine, Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington, who has been a guest on this program many times.

He is going to continue the same theme, having read the book, being thoroughly acquainted with it, and

approving of Dr. Truman's message in the book very highly.

If you have a question of your own that you'd like to join us on the air with, give us an email or send us an email to

chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give his first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of

the USA.

Dr. Waddington, this issue, unfortunately, as was hinted at by

a listener question, although he was incorrect

about any apprehension as far as your knowledge, or Dr. Truman's knowledge, about

the LBGTQ agenda having been infiltrated as of this

point into the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, and I'm sure what he was referring

to was actually in the leadership amongst those who are preachers and teachers and

those that have a realm of authority there.

Thankfully, you both were unaware of that, but it is, as Dr. Truman just

mentioned before he left, it has seeped into to quite a significant degree

in the Presbyterian Church in America, the PCA, and of course we have to be quick

to remind our listeners that there are

many, many fine, outstanding pastors and Christians in the

PCA, so we cannot indict the entire denomination for this.

But what would you say are some of the most dangerous aspects of this whole mindset

that are being endorsed by otherwise conservative Bible -believing

Christians, even Reformed Christians who believe in biblical inerrancy and agree with us on many things, but on this issue they're

putting their own spin on it?

What would you say some of those issues and approaches to those issues are?

Well,

while

it's

interesting

how all

these

ideas are filtering

down, or later,

weddings, I think will become more, are becoming more

common, not will become, but are becoming a more common issue.

Carl did make reference to, of

course, they wrote things about how

does the

church...

What I mentioned earlier when I asked Dr. Truman the

question about, you know,

the LGBTQ

involved, their

identity is

going to have to.

It's not an

apologetics book,

call it that, of the ocean.

The rise

and the triumph of the

modern

set depended upon

college

campuses

who

react to

having conservative speaker, university,

and this

is...

In fact, in fact, could you bring up those two things when we come back from our midway break?

I can't believe the time just flew by so fast, but we have to go to our midway break.

Please be patient with us.

It's a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio and 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida

requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show because they are required by the FCC to localize this program

geographically to Lake City, Florida with their own public service announcements and other local

announcements and things that they air during the midway break while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

Please be patient with us.

Use this time to write down the information that our advertisers provide so that you can respond to those

advertisers and also write down questions for Jeff Waddington who...

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington after these messages from our sponsors.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

My friend,.

Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once again for

the G3 Conference.

This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme,

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Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G321.

This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

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As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending, as far back as the 1980s, is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Here's what Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

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Good to be back, Chris.

I always enjoy our time.

I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more

than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment.

How much do I owe you for that?

You don't have to owe me anything.

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I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

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Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ,.

Today and always.

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In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this,.

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Thank you.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading.

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Without their continued advertising and the finances that come from that, we would likely have to go

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Before I return to my discussion with Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington, I just have a couple of

announcements to make.

First of all, you've been hearing the ads for the G3 conference coming up in Atlanta,

Georgia, September 30th through October 2nd, and I am so

excited about going there again.

This will be my fourth year in a row attending the G3 conference where I'll be manning another Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio exhibitors booth, which has always proved to be a phenomenal experience for me

personally and for my program.

But I do want you to pray specifically for one of the speakers on the roster who

you hear being announced every day.

That's Dr. Voti Baucom.

Voti Baucom, as many of you have heard, especially if you love and admire him

and gain much from his ministry, Voti has had serious heart

problems as well as other heart, as well as other health problems,

but he is going to now require bypass surgery.

He is here in the United States for that.

He left his new home in Zambia, Africa, to return to the United States to have his health needs

attended to.

So please pray for this dear brother and the surgeons that are going to be operating

on him and also just for all of those health care workers who will be caring for him at this

time.

He and his family as well.

And I know that my guest, Dr. Jeff Waddington, greatly admires Voti Baucom as well, don't you,.

Brother?

I do.

Yes, I do.

In fact, we want

to see him.

So please pray for

Voti

Baucom and his

family.

Also, folks, if you love this show, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves.

Please, I'm urging you now more than ever before to go to www .IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

click support, then click, click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

And you can also, if you prefer snail mail, if you prefer the old fashioned way

of mailing things via the United States Postal Service, which has been of late a

nightmare, by the way, taking much, much, much, much, much, much longer to get

things into my mailbox than they normally would have because of this coronavirus

pandemic hysteria.

But if you prefer that, a physical address will appear on your screen

where you can mail a check made out to IronSharpensIronRadio when you click support

at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

Also, if you want to advertise with us, please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line as long

as whatever it is you desire to promote is compatible with what I believe.

You don't have to believe identically with me, but you need to be promoting something that is at the very least compatible with what I believe

and send me that email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

Last but not least, folks, I hope that none of you are siphoning money away from

your regular giving to your own local church where you are a member in order to give to IronSharpensIronRadio.

Please don't, in other words, punish your own church financially by blessing us financially.

As much as we need your money, we don't want you doing that and we don't want you also putting yourself in further

financial peril if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet.

Those two things are commands of scripture, providing for your church and providing for your family.

Providing for my show is not, obviously, a command of scripture, but if you do love the show

and you have been blessed financially above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, you have extra money that

you use for recreational purposes, trivial purposes,

pocket money, please help us with some of that money if, indeed, you love the show and don't want us to disappear.

We are in bad shape right now financially, worse than we have been in months.

I know that my appeals to you for financial help are always urgent.

This is even more urgent.

We don't know where our money is coming from for our May rent,

yet we don't know where our money is coming from to pay for a large portion

of our internet bill, which we need to live stream the show.

So we are in one of those positions again where things are looking scary and I have to constantly remind ourselves

or myself that Jesus Christ should be anxious for nothing, but I can tell you that these are scary

times.

So please help us.

If you love the show, go to www .IronTropeAndZionRadio .com, click support, then click click to donate.

Now donate as frequently as you can and as generously as you can.

I thank all of you who have been doing that, not only those of you who have been doing it for months, even years,

going back to when we first launched in 2005, but also those who are new time or first time

contributors.

I thank all of you from the depths of my heart.

And if you've never given before but love the show, please search your heart, search your bank

account, and if you can bless us financially and you want us to stick around, please do it at www

.IronTropeAndZionRadio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

Also folks, I want you to be aware if you are without a church home,

I have lists, I have biblical, I have lists, extensive lists of biblically faithful

churches all over the planet earth.

And I can help you find a church possibly, very likely I can help you find a church near where

you live, no matter where on the globe you live.

I have helped people all over the planet earth find churches, sometimes even within a minute's drive from

their own home that they didn't know existed or they didn't know were

biblically sound churches even though they pass them every day.

So I'm asking you folks to please, if you are without a biblically sound church home, send me

an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

It's chrisarnson at gmail .com, I need a church in the subject line.

It's also the email address where you can send in a question for my guest

today for the remaining 90 minutes of the show, Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington,

and he is the pastor of Faith Orthodox Presbyterian Church of

Thorn Grove, Pennsylvania, author, conference speaker, vice president of the board of directors for the Reform Forum,

and articles editor for the Confessional Presbyterian Journal.

We are continuing our discussion on Dr. Carl Truman's book, The Rise and Triumph of the

Modern Self, Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual

Evolution.

Dr. Truman, if you just tuned us in, Dr. Truman was on with us for the first 30 minutes, but he had other

previous engagements that he had to take care of.

So now we have Dr. Waddington, a friend of his and mine, who is

thoroughly knowledgeable of the contents of this book, carrying on a conversation on the theme.

And right before the break, the midway break, Dr. Waddington, you were about to address two

critical aspects to the snowflake generation, and those

folks, I'd be shocked if you didn't hear that term.

If you watch TV and listen to the radio and around the internet at all,

if you not heard that term, that is basically a pejorative term, I think an

accurate description of some of these activists

who act like delicate little snowflakes and act as if their skin is

so thin that they can barely tolerate the slightest

offense in words spoken by those who disagree with their

worldview and ideology.

And to tell you the truth, Dr. Waddington, I don't believe 99 .99999

of these people that claim they are offended are offended at all.

That's just a way to bolster up their image of being victims.

Yes, that's of course a possibility.

Now, Dr. Truman does

act as an

expressivist,

and

there

are rules

of

religion

to the 2015

recognized the

right to

get

bedrock, are not granted by

the Constitution,

nor the

son

of a

prophet.

And I

don't

make a profit to hazard

a guess.

But if

you were

asking

me, what do I

say?

The

bad

on the right of the two minute rights is the freedom

to assemble.

We want to be on the lookout for the right to

frame

the gospel

forsaken in our culture, they're no longer held in high regard.

As you can imagine, if you

don't do exemplify

part of

this, that means that I'm

remember, that's a

key element in this whole

thing, but in

jail, and

anybody

that can see how

that would not mesh well,.

An anonymous listener who says I'm having conflict with people

in my own congregation over an issue that has seemed to grown wild

in the PCA and other formerly pristine denominations

and fellowships.

That is the acceptance of people who in their thought and desires,

label themselves as gay or homosexual.

And they think that this is acceptable as a Bible believing Christian, because they

remain chaste, and do not consummate these thoughts and desires in

physical activity.

But this is really just as sinful in some cases, as

allowing yourself to physically participate, is it not?

After all, Jesus said, even if you look at a woman with lust in your heart, you have committed

adultery already.

So why would it be any.

Different for a homosexual?

That is correct, and that's getting into a debate.

I think that,

and that is that people, there are certain,

try to argue

inclinations,

just

as

we

have,

your affections are either, they are wicked

or

homosexual,

quite another to tell them is okay.

Now, one of the things about that, and I have to be very careful how I phrase my words, so I'm not

misunderstood.

It bothers me when many conservative Bible believing Christians,

even those that would agree with us on most matters involving theology, it bothers

me when the inappropriate sexual desire for somebody of the

opposite sex is totally made equivalent

to a same -sex desire or lust.

Well, they both may be sinful when you're actually desiring someone of the

opposite sex that is not your spouse, or you're desiring

them and intend to marry them, but you don't let your thoughts

travel into lust and sexual sin.

Obviously, there's an attraction that occurs to people, with people, among people that

become engaged and become married, but

the homosexual version of that is never a good

thing, and it is an unnatural sign of something.

More deeply evil going on.

Yeah, that's correct.

We're actually touching upon a point that is part of that early, that other conversation,

that struggles

with same

-sex attractions,

to agree

with

me.

Right,

because

it is not heterosexual attraction,

as

long as it's not.

Abused and misused.

It is a gift of God, isn't it?

Correct, yes.

You're dealing with something.

That isn't in other

countries

around

the world.

This is an

indication that God's judgment may already be resting upon us.

Not only does homosexual

sexual

attraction

itself

sinful,

whereas homosexual lesbian attraction...

It's an abomination, is it

not, that we have men.

And women, I think I've predominantly heard this from men,

who are even theologically on the money with other matters of faith and scripture,

who will actually identify themselves.

As gay celibate Christians.

Yes.

Now, isn't that a denial of

God's power to transform and rescue ultimately?

Yeah, because

they're so

long and

deep, almost any human,

but

of course

that lands you

right into that whole

thing.

All of that is related, you know, all of these

things are not

suddenly over time, they've converged.

So, Dr. Truman, however, that was

the burden

of Eden, but

you

know,

in

recent

identifying

yourself

as a gay

man,

you

do that,

which

is what's

happening

in which we live.

We lived in a different age.

We might want to wish ourselves back to the days of the father

knows best.

I'm going to

read a question to you before we go to our final break,.

And I'll have you answer the question when you return, when we

return.

We have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, who asks,

I recall some previous interviews with you, Dr. Waddington, on Iron Trump and Zion Radio,

where you had mentioned that you were formerly in the Salvation Army denomination,

which ordains women.

My question is, historically, have denominations that have

made it an official policy to ordain women into the ministry,

always subsequently fallen into viewing homosexuality in a favorable or at least

a tolerable manner, since the hermeneutic seems to be very identical?

We'll have you answer that, Dr. Waddington, when we come back from the break.

This is our final break, and it'll be a lot faster than the others.

If you intend to send in a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages.

Supreme over all.

I'll be speaking there, along with over 20 other speakers, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Votie

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For details, visit g3conference .com.

That's g, the number three, conference .com.

Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October the 2nd at G3

2021.

This is Justin Peters reminding you that.

Christ is supreme over all.

Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio first launched in 2005.

The publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

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Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa.

On Iron Sharpens Iron.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron radio, one of the best ways you can help.

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Lynbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

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Hello, Dr. Waddington.

So our listener.

In eastern Suffolk County, Ronald, wanted to know from your experience formerly being

involved in the Salvation Army, has their hermeneutic that permitted them

to ordain women into ministry at all made them subsequently

make the same allowance for homosexuality?

And to your knowledge, is that atypical or is it always the result of

that hermeneutic of allowing women into.

Ministry?

Well, that's a very perceptive question.

I

haven't done a scientific study and I've

not kept up with, you know, the positions taken by the

Salvation Army, but I suspect the,

I know that

could be a

Syrian army, but it come

from

mainline

churches where the gate

had

no

problems

for one allows for the other.

As you might imagine.

Yeah, well, there are, we have to admit very quickly.

That there are still conservative Bible -believing denominations and

churches that ordain women that still oppose all forms of sexual

perversion and sex outside of sex outside of monogamous.

I know

that here in

Pennsylvania, a very prominent denomination is the Church of God.

General Assembly, which is based in Findlay, Ohio.

They are basically for lack of a better term or lack of a better description, Wesleyan Baptists.

And they ordain women, but they are still very opposed to

homosexuality and all forms of sex outside of a monogamous

marriage between a man and a woman.

And there are also obviously Pentecostal groups that ordain women and

still oppose homosexuality.

And even in our circles, the Associate Reform Presbyterian Church

would be one that ordains women.

We would be opposed to that very much, but they are still opposing

homosexuality as well with just as much fervency as we do.

In fact, Sinclair Ferguson was a pastor in that denomination when he was still in the United States.

Yeah.

I mean, it's not a guarantee that approving of female ordination will

in the one case or

because you're disregarding

what is God's

Word in another case.

We have Grady, a very loyal listener and financial supporter of this program in Ashboro,

North Carolina, who says, if the current United States administration passes the Equality

Act, do you see those of us that proclaim the gospel being imprisoned?

And does Dr. Truman cover this in his.

Book?

Not directly, no.

I don't

satisfy that law.

It is available online and people can go.

The bill, I should say, is online.

The act doesn't make for exciting reading.

It's what it's doing is...

By the

way, I have

to quickly interject

here that the Associate Reform Presbyterian.

Church in Canada does not, thankfully, ordain women as the United States wing

of that denomination.

Does.

Interesting.

Okay.

So, the difference on the

two sides

reminded us

that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

That doesn't mean

individual chapters.

If that does become law,

you can bet your bottom dollar that there'll be a thinning of the ranks.

And we're out of time, brother, and I want to make sure our listeners have your website.

It's faith, O -P -C dot net, F -A -I -T -H, O -P -C dot net.

And for those of my listeners interested in the Reformed Forum, go to reformedforum .org,

reformedforum .org.

Thank you so much, Dr. Waddington, for being such a superb guest, and shout out again to

our first guest, Dr. Carl Truman.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a

sinner.