Daniel 2

Open Air Theology

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Hey, what's up everybody? Here again here to continue the conversation just with a different conversation

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So this is my other podcast that I host. This is called trailer park theology and If you haven't ever lived in the trailer park,

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I do not know what you're doing with your life Like I'm really struggling right now

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No, so so it's me and Braden we're here and I know I think I Before I end it.

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I said that we were going to be talking about Daniel chapter 9 but what we want to do is we want to present

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Daniel chapter 2 and we want to show all the different beliefs that's held on this and then maybe

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Take some questions and then next week. We'll look at Daniel chapter 7 and then

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Daniel chapter 9. We'll work our way to Matthew 24, we'll look at some

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Zachariah like we're just gonna focus right now for some eschatology conversations, but also we have a another guy a pastor friend of Braden who represents the

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Historical pre meal and so we're going to have him on here. And so I will represent the post meal conversation

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Braden with his all meal And then we'll have him to represent the pre meal and if anyone

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Offer still stands if anyone out there that hoes a dispensational pre meal

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They like to jump on and have a conversation with us please contact me and would love to have you on as long as you are

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Respectful and we can joke around and iron sharpen an iron type of a conversation

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All right, so we want to look at Daniel chapter 2 and Daniel chapter 2 we have

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Nebuchadnezzar has a dream And so when he wakes up he's

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Terry I'm not going to read it all You know, he wakes up he's kind of terrified and what he does is is he wants someone

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To tell him the dream and it's interpretation So he doesn't want to tell someone his dream for them to give him in an interpretation he wants them to tell him the dream and to give him the interpretation, which is

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Humanly impossible like like this is something that we cannot do

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Whenever I wake up with a bad dream. My wife doesn't say hey, let me tell you what you dreamed about Like I got something that's not in us.

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So So the idea is is is Nebuchadnezzar is asking for something impossible, but the deal is he's his claim is is if the wise man the

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Chaldeans and and all those who have you know, I don't want to name off the

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I should have marked my spot in here that said it but but anyone that's a part of his

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Kingdom who is wise if they can't tell him the dream and give him the interpretation He is going to put them to death

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Daniel hears about this And so he asks us for time to where he could pray to God him

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Shadrach Meshach and Abednego and then he would bring to Nebuchadnezzar The dream and its interpretation so they pray they ask

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God God gives them the dream Daniel presents this dream To Nebuchadnezzar and Braden's gonna read the interpretation.

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Yeah so I'll just I'll just read verses 31 through 35 and I'm assuming we'll probably just jump in and Talk a little bit about the following verses after that.

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Is that right Jeff? That sounds good. Okay cover that So I'll just read first 31 through 35 and it says in there

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Daniel chapter 2 You Oh King were looking and behold There was a single great statue that statue which was large and extraordinary

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Extraordinary splendor was standing in front of you and it appearance was awesome

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The head of the statue was made of fine gold its breasts and its arms of silver

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Its belly and its thighs of bronze its legs of iron its feet partly of iron and partly of clay

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You continued to look or continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands and It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them then the iron the clay the bronze the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and Became like chaff from the summer threshing floor and the wind carried them away

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So that not a trace of them was found but the stone that struck the statue came became a great mountain and filled the whole earth

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All right Fine reading you got there.

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What Bible version are you reading from? That's the 77 NESB the 77

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Yeah, I love that version has the poetry in it. It does it still carries some of that King James Sound to it but not

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Yeah, I like it better than the 95 personally. I agree. I agree.

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Yeah. Yeah, and I'm not hating on the 95 but you know, it is what it is.

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I might be I might sound like Yeah, so uh,

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I got this little imagery right here this image notice I cut the Cut the feet off And I did that for a purpose

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Like I don't have the feet with me But but I was teaching a class and I had the feet to where you could see it but then

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I could push move down on the feet and it would separate and it would have a list of what

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The pre meal dispensationals believe that it takes place during this time yeah, but but as you see in this list we see as whenever Daniel speaking to Nebuchadnezzar.

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He tells him that he is the head of goad He says Nebuchadnezzar you are the head of goad now.

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We know that The head of goat is Nebuchadnezzar, but it also

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Represents Babylon so the head of goad represents two things Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon now that's going to be

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Good To know when you get to the the stone the chest of silver is the

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Medes and Persian the media Persians the thighs of bronze is Grease and the legs of iron is

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Rome now We know that this is without a doubt what it represents and then when we get into chapter 7 we see the

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Kingdoms again, but they're represented as beast now where I believe

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Interpretation of this text has broken and has not been clear and I've mentioned this the last time that we talked briefly on Facebook Would be the feet the iron and clay

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Who what is the iron and what is the clay and I can remember as a pre millennial dispensational?

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That was a question that I always had in my head if we could figure out who the iron and who the clay is

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Then then we would know at what point The end will come by You know because I had this idea, you know, because like in the pre millennial dispensational system the reason why

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I have it cut off here at the at the ankles is that we believe that That at the ankles where the the feet would come into play the iron mingle with clay that this was a

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Parenthesis and so the feet would separate from the statue because they believe

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I Believed at one time that the feet of iron mingle with clay was often our distant future well

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As a pre millennial believing that the rapture could happen at any time That distant future could be at any moment we believe in the

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Embassy of the of the Rapture. I used to have a a

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License plate that said in case of Rapture this car would be unmanned, you know, like Like it was serious, right?

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So and so and so there's a statue that Nebuchadnezzar, you know, he he has a dream he sees this in his vision

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And so I've always you know as a pre millennial dispensational when I was that I always thought man if I could just figure out

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The statue when it came to the the feet of iron mingle with clay then we would know

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When the end would come Well, I was an idiot and I'm not calling other dispensational as idiots.

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I'm telling you right now. I was the idiot this consumed my life Well Probably about three years ago

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Just reading the Bible. I You know, I asked myself that again I came to this portion of scripture and I asked myself who is the iron and clay and Listen, man, all of a sudden it hit me and I'm not saying

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God spoke to me Okay, don't hear that but all of a sudden it hit me. It's Jerusalem and I had scripture to back it up Isaiah Jeremiah, they all say

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Pointing to God you are the Potter We the

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Jews are the clay and then you get to Romans chapter 9 the context the

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Jews is represented as the clay and So the iron represents

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Rome the clay Represents Jerusalem, there is no gap.

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There is no parentheses All right And then it says that there was a stone carved out by no human hand the stone represents the incarnation of Jesus Jesus Christ Was born of the

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Virgin meaning that he had no earthly father God was his father

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Right the Holy Spirit came upon Mary he was conceived the incarnation the

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God -man Jesus Jesus the hypostatic union was fully God fully man and we and we walked through this text a few weeks ago

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I believe it was this concept of the incarnation So the stone that's cut out by no human hands is speaking of the incarnation and it comes at the time

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When the iron and the clay were mixed because this text says that it hits the statue on the feet

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So the stone comes down and it strikes the statue on the feet During the time of the pox

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Romanus the Roman peace when iron was mingled with clay There was only one time in history that the iron was mingled with clay if the iron is

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Rome and clay is Jerusalem First century Jerusalem is when the iron was mingled with clay

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Jesus born Jesus was born around 3 to 4 BC Okay Rome was in control over Jerusalem During this time and so and it says that this stone lands on the statue

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It lands on the earth the statue crumbles and we'll talk about The interpretation of that and then it says that that statue.

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I mean that stone Grows on the earth and covers the whole earth now,

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I believe just as the head of gold represented Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar, I believe this stone is carved up by no human hand who represents

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Jesus Christ I also believe it represents Jesus Christ's kingdom the kingdom of God the kingdom of heaven so I believe that the kingdom of heaven came at the time of the incarnation and Every since it's been on earth and I know that this is where me and Brayden would put on our boxing gloves and have it out and But it's been growing on the earth.

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You hear me brain on the earth growing on the earth. No Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and so And so what

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I want to do tonight is It's to focus in on this stone this kingdom of God and I want to Talk about what what

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I believe what you believe and what? We know that that the other

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People held host to in Christendom. Does that sound fair? Yeah other other Orthodox Christians what their views are on that right?

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Maybe maybe it'd be fair if you want to mind I'll just give a quick summation maybe of dispensational premillennialism on this and I don't know if there would be a major split in a historic premillennialism according to just this text because there isn't a lot to do with I don't know what

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Historical, I don't know what the historicals believe. I only know what the dispensationals would say and that would yeah

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That that again that the statue so the feats cut off Because they believe that the stone comes down and strikes the feet they believe that Jesus is the stone that this kingdom is

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It is the kingdom of heaven, but the kingdom of heaven is not going to happen until our future

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Yep, so Yeah if I'm not mistaken now,

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I know the premillennial dispensationals believe that that it will be after a

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Rapture with a seven -year tribulation Now if I'm not mistaken the premillennial historical premillennials would say that it would that the kingdom would come this stone strikes the statue

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Would like in my mind it would make sense at the second coming.

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Yeah, I would I I would agree with with that for sure and Maybe let me let me just run through this with a dispensational premillennial lens on real fast and then to anybody that would be

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Dispensational premillennial that's listening to this. I this is not me saying that It's me saying that I disagree with you and I I firmly do and and whatnot

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But you fervently disagree with me and this would be my best my my best approach to try to describe that side to that, right?

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So they would they would agree on the interpretation of the dream that that that the gold represents

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Nebuchadnezzar and Nebuchadnezzar and represents the entirety of his Babylon kingdom They written they know that the the chest plate rings

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Medo -persia the the thighs and abdomen the bronze represents Greece and then the legs represent

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Rome and they would say that the the the split where they they very clearly see a difference is that Rome never really had a

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Impact of a defeat such as we see with Babylon being conquered and and a kingdom falling away

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They would say that Rome just just kind of disappeared It just got too big and it just left and so they would say that the the

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Rome never was struck in Verse 35 or verse 34. It was never struck yet And so therefore since Rome never really was struck that can't mean the first coming of Christ That has to mean the second coming and they would say that the second coming of Christ will come about When there will be this

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Rome type Government that this Rome type government in the future not today

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But in the future will come it will unite ten kingdoms and they will bring that about because of verse

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Verse 42 it says as and as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of pottery

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So some of the kingdom will be strong and part of it will be written brittle and so they'll connect these things to the book of Revelation and they'll say look this this has to be a future sense because these

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Ten kingdoms it talks about this ten number in the book of Revelation and then as we talked about in Daniel chapter 7 and a future

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Date there's gonna be these horns that come from this beast This all has to be future to them and they would say that it will appear like Rome ten kings will come together and that will then be

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When from my understanding is that this would be shortly prior to Well now

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I'm thinking about I would assume that this would be a Shortly prior to the Rapture is what they would say and by Rapture means that your your clothes are left on the ground you get

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Pulled up into heaven and they would most likely assume a a secret Rapture that that Christ never

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Physically lands with his feet on the earth. They're taken out before the tribulation tribulation takes place

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The three and a half years three and a half years so on and so forth and of the tribulation happens

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The Christ thing comes back with those raptured people Those that are that are left behind the the

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Jews. They're all saved at that point And from that point that would be the

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Millennial Kingdom the stone that was cut out without hands has come and now struck this Rome like kingdom with ten toes ten kings and And has inaugurated his kingdom in that sense

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And then they would they would look say that that's the Revelation chapter 20 verses 1 through 6 that's that thousand year period

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That's there will be continue continuing death Continuing sin people falling away people coming to Christ Creation not being glorified

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All those things are still taking place in a thousand years at the end of the thousand years there will be a final battle and a final judgment and from that time, then there will be the

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Everlasting everlasting the new heavens and the new king and so they have very much a broken down system

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Doing of looking at it and I would say that the reason that they believe in in this kind of a reading of a text is because I Would argue that this is a hyper literacy reading of the text is that we're looking for things that are not meant to be

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Dug into as much as what they are. This is prophetic language that we see in here There's obvious symbols obviously pictures that are taking place here and and we need to take them as such it

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I Would argue that Rome it says there's ten these toes Well, there was also ten fingers on the arms on the hands.

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Do we see ten Kings in the Medo -Persian time? No There says there's two thighs of bronze.

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Are are we supposed to think that Greece was was two different kingdoms? Rome has two legs.

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The statue has two legs. So are we to think that Rome had two kingdoms?

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you see what I'm saying it you can't you can't just look at this and just pull from it this this type of thinking in my opinion and so That would be my my best description on trying to and and they would also argue that Since these kingdoms that we see here in in verses 31 through 35.

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These were physical kingdoms King Nebuchadnezzar was a physical man Medo -Persian was a physical kingdom

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These these kingdoms literally existed with actual walls actual gates actual borders.

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These were kingdoms Therefore that will be exactly what Christ's kingdom is like to it'll have a physical border.

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It will fill the whole earth It will it will be physically in that same sense

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Physically just as much as those other kingdoms were and so they would say that any other Eschatology view that says that Christ's kingdom is now even on the earth

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That's not physical enough in the literacy that they're reading from a text like this.

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And so that would be the dispensational view The historic view I think would be historic pre -millennialist view would be very similar to that.

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I think they might change where that With the Rapture and the Tribulation they might change some of those things around and I'm not yeah

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Yes, that would be kind of brought into the the second coming of Christ, yes, so instead of having a a premillennial a pre -trib me trib or post -trib

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Rapture they would see The second coming of Christ taking place, but they still would see a future

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Antichrist, I believe you all millennial As well would see some future world leader coming into power or there could be a chance for something like I I don't think all millennialism throws that out the water

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It doesn't all millennialism. I wouldn't I wouldn't say that there's gonna be any necessarily one figure

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I I would take more or less that as speaking of as a type of people throughout the time and But all millennialism is

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Encompassing more in that sense. You can have all millennialists that believe in partial predatorism Millennialists that are historic in some ways historicism or all millennialists that are even or Idealists, I find myself falling on a partial predators and idealist reading of a text depending on which one it is

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But all millennialism is definitely a little bit. I would say Where dispensational premillennialism is very firm on its understanding.

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They might have Some differences here and there depending on person to person all millennialism definitely has a difference in reading of a text from person to person if that makes sense, but Do you want me to talk a little bit about the all millennialism view in here to maybe?

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Roll into the end of that or would you like to speak any more on this with dispensational premillennialism? No, I'm fine with that I just wanted to have like their idea because we know that they would believe that the kingdom is

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Not now but that it is future and so it would have to be That this kingdom this this the stone that's carved out by no human hand that it lands

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During the time. Well, I don't want to get my post mill Talk, right?

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It comes to the earth It would be future to us

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So so if it was historical it would be that the kingdom of God is established at the second coming of Christ It will be a future literal

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Rain, I do believe they hold to a thousand -year future rain on earth yeah, and Yeah, I was

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I was gonna say they would also add in that in that literacy of reading of the text They would then say

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Christ has to sit literally upon David's throne on earth

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Literally some some would even say not all I've talked to both groups of this but some would say

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Christ has to return and Literally make another sacrifice in a newly built temple so they would say that there has to be a new built temple because there's talks about a

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Temple here in this book of Revelation and that had to have been post 70 AD That has to be speaking of a future building up of a temple and that's how

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Christ will bring all the Jews Ethnic Jews of that day and the salvation is through this future fulfillment of this prophecy and sacrifice so they they they

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Like I said, I think that when I say literacy I don't mean that because you and I believe the

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Bible is literal and when we say we read the Bible and not know it to be literal we Mean that a sentence is a sentence a question is a question a noun is a noun a pronoun is a pronoun

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You can't change Jesus says that I am the way you can't change that into a question mark That is a statement of fact that that is what literacy means

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And so when I say hyper literal, I would say that there and I'm not accusing my dispensational

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Premillennialist friends of always doing something like this, but I would say it's hyper literacy of us to see verse 42

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And it says that there were toes and feet that were mixed with car with iron and partly clay

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It doesn't say in there that there were there There are these ten kings that are coming together and creating this

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Union and it's like Rome That's pulling out of the text something I don't think is there and that's the double hyper literacy of reading something like that I think yeah, well, they're not as literal as they

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Claim to be because they don't literally believe that a stone is gonna fall and hit a statue on its toes

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Yeah, and I know there's gonna grow and cover the whole earth And so this idea that they're literal interpretate that that their interpretation is literal and ours is symbolic like like I think it's a

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Horrible argument and I want it should be thrown out the window I mean when you when you tell me that you host to a literal interpretation, but you see in the book of Revelation you see

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What is that creature Dragon coming out of the ocean all those kind of Yes Describing Satan and described

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Satan as a dragon Do you really believe that there's gonna be a dragon flying or or do you really believe that you that a woman?

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Is standing on the Sun and clothed in the moon and she has a crown of 12 stars on her head or that?

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Are that you know, these locusts is are are you know? Helicopters.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, if you tell me that locusts and but the book of Revelation where it speaks about locusts, they're helicopters

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Like don't tell me you're taking the text literal literally. Yep, because you're not right

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Yeah, you're not and likewise in Revelation chapter 5 It says that Jesus the only one that's able to open up this book that is with seven seals is a lamb that is standing

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As if slain. Yeah, so are we gonna say that Christ was a lit is a literal land right now?

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That you can go up and touch its wool Yeah, no, no, no, you understand that but That being said types and shadows.

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It's it's speaking of the anti type that yeah, but prefigured in the Old Testament Yeah, amen, and and the point of it is is that it's this type of Christophany No I I don't

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I don't argue that John the Revelator this while receiving this revelation saw an

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Actual lamb slain before this throne. Oh, yeah. I think he saw that Obvious that it was it was a theological symbolics importance that showed us something that we need to take into account and so another great example and The issue is

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I think when somebody reads something and says I can read something more literal than the next well What happens if I said

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I can read something more literal and I say Christ is a sheep in heaven right now because of that Text I'm reading it literal

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I you can't read it literal because you're you're you're saying I can't read it literal anymore It has to be

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Symbolic. Oh how who draws that line because I could I can say Christ is a lamb right now

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I'm standing next to the Father why? You see the the hard You can't do that.

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I don't think I think that's why it's important to be a Covenantal to be

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Covenant in your theology because you know that when it's speaking of the lamb

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I mean John the Baptist sees Jesus and he says behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world

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He's saying no more Will we have to have a Passover where we slaughter a lamb and put the blood over our doorpost and over the lentil?

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Because yes, Jesus who's coming toward me. He is that he is what that Prefigured that that this lamb that we slaughter every

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Passover is a shadow and this is Jesus Who's coming is the substance?

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That's him right there. Yeah, that's him. That's the guy He's the one and he's gonna take away the sins of the world how by his blood

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Yeah being spilled And and we see that That's why when

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I try to describe my harmonetical principles that lead me to believing in covenantal theology that lead me

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Ultimately into believing on millennialism as well, but covenantal theology specifically. I know the reason though that I'm led into covenantal theology is because Their Christ says destroy this temple in three days and I will build it up.

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I'm gonna rebuild it. Yeah. Yep. He's the temple He's spot speaking. Absolutely. He's the temple. He's the true

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Jew. He's the temple The physical temple years ago was always pointing us to Jesus.

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Absolutely. It was always doing that There's a theological fulfillment Even though those temples were a literal place and a literal you could fill it

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It always pointed us to Jesus just like the lambs were physical lambs that died It always pointed us to Jesus and and so what

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I would say is that we always have to approach the Old Testament in light of the new because the new explains the old and We have to understand it that this is the

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Old Testament was given to a people that did not Have a physical

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Jesus Christ that they could look to upon a cross They looked through it to it and shadows and types and foreshadowings and and and so on and so forth

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Which absolutely explains Jesus in the cross. I'm not saying it doesn't but These people that had faith in Yahweh and the sacrifice that they were offering were doing it because they realized that this is speaking

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Of a future day and and it's speaking about Christ And so I think another beautiful example though where a dispensationalist and this isn't us beating up on dispensationalism, but the

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Isaiah chapter 2 verse 4 it says and he will judge between the nations and will render decisions for many peoples and they will hammer their swords into plowshares and Their spears into pruning hooks nations will not be lifted up or will not lift up sword against nation and never again

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Will they learn learn war? So that dispensationalist is once again, it's going to put this in a future day

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But I don't know if you know this Jeff But is there any nation today or in a hundred years from now or a thousand years from now that will ever use a sword?

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for war No, we got AR 15s, baby. We got we got we got the good stuff now.

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So I'm a preterist Yeah, right and so they they would look at something like this though and they would say well that when it says swords and spears

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It obviously is referring to the weapon of today. Well pause. You're not reading that literal literal one

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That's right. You're reading that and an idealistic now you're reading this and the changing it to be what you want it to be to fit your theology, right which

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That's just that that's the important thing to remember and it goes on to talk about farming equipment Well, we don't use

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Plow shares to do things anymore. We got these nice fancy John Deere tractors that do a lot of good work for us now

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So are we gonna be melting down our ARs to turn them into John Deere tractors? Or are we are we gonna first melt down the

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AR to make them into a spear and then hammer the spear into a plow Sheer and not into the John you see what I'm saying it.

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Oh, yeah, but you got it. You got a To my it does the same thing when it speaks about the

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Gog and Magog war So the Gog and Magog war like like this war which they see that's taking place in the future

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Well in Scripture is happening on horseback and there's bow and arrows Like like like there's you know, you know swords and stuff like that, or I can't

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I don't know if it's bow and arrows But I think yes, you know, but I get what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but but we don't have wars like that Nor are we going to be on horseback?

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You know and so and so that's why I believe that that war That it's speaking about has already taken place

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Yeah, because I do believe that it was literal but I believe that it was in our past.

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It's something that has already happened Yeah, so if you can just give us a rundown on the all -millennial position of this

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I know we kind of touched on it briefly one day was just kind of rifted off of each other a couple weeks ago

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Yeah, no, I so my perspective of this is going to be like I said almost hand -in -hand Similar to what you would almost say on this so when it says and I'll just jump right into the good stuff because you and I and everyone else almost always agrees that it's

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Babylon, you know Persia Greece and then Rome but when it speaks of the iron mixed with the clay in the feet

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There would be two understandings. I would say that are possible when I when I read something like this since it's a picture

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It's a symbolic thing that we see here just as King Nebuchadnezzar wasn't a literal head of gold

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He was a figure that was that was showing something symbolic to represent something.

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I Have a hard time saying this is exactly what it means because I don't it doesn't say exactly what it means in the interpretation

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It does give us a very clear depiction of it that I think there's a little bit of speculation But the two that I would say would be possible

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Would be one just the exact same thing that you said that clay is often referred to as Jerusalem And there's only one time that the

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Jews ever teamed up with a king in this sense and that was when they said

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Crucify crucify away with him away with him. We have no king but Caesar John chapter 8 and John chapter 19.

34:59

We have no king but Caesar that's very clear Caesar's Rome and That's Jews and Rome coming right then and there to crucify the rock that is being spoken of in here

35:10

So I see that as being a absolute Possibility of what this text means the other one that I would say that that could be

35:17

In the realm of possibility in my opinion would be that that when it speaks of clay and iron

35:23

It's speaking of this brittle ideas this brittle nation that's trying to hold up the rest of the kingdoms and so How do we see

35:32

Rome fall away it's because they they overreached that which they could keep control and Therefore since they had a mask if you look at the maps of the the different kingdoms one was this big than this big than this big and then

35:44

Rome was This big right and so that they lost control partly because of that and so part of me says that it could be speaking of the the the general idea that they were a king of Kingdoms they were they were a kingdom of kingdoms that they had all these different people that were a part of it and we

36:02

See that after that Rome fell away. We we get all these different nations like the Britons and the Saxons and all these type of Kingdoms that come about afterwards from that.

36:11

I think both of those could be plausible And if you asked me today, I would be on the side of the defense that it's speaking about the

36:17

Jerusalem and Rome Just like what you were saying But when I when I read

36:22

I think that the part where where you and I would different I'll do my best to Understand where you're coming from on something like this so We both agree that the kingdom of God was inaugurated in his first advent that that the kingdom of God when he says

36:37

Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. He was speaking about himself That he is that kingdom and I would say that we could look into there's three different verses in the book of Revelation I can't open up to right now.

36:50

It says that That we are living priests in this kingdom that he has made us to be priests in this kingdom

36:59

I'm trying to think of some other ones in Luke 16 16 for the time of the Law and the Prophets real until John and since Then everyone has been pressing his way into the kingdom is what

37:08

I think that says there in the last part of it there there's The reason that I'm a covenantal theology person

37:15

Partly an Amillennialist which is still post -millennialism in a thought is that Because of my study into what kingdom is in the

37:24

New Testament how many times he talks about it? How many times he talks about it being a current reality? so on and so forth and so When I see in John chapter 18 when he's before Pilate and he says aren't you a king and he says yes

37:38

You have said correctly. I am a king and he says He goes on to say that my kingdom is not of this world my kingdom is not of this realm is speaking of a difference between Believers and non -believers in far of this world because we are from this world

37:55

Christ is not from this world and since he is our King our King is not of this world in that sense

38:02

He lived in the world, but he is not of the world his kingdom therefore resides with him not of this world and so since all the prophecy that talked about setting a descendant of David upon His throne that this future descendant of David would be sitting upon his throne

38:20

And you wouldn't agree disagree with this but in Acts chapter 2 verse verse 29 it says brother

38:29

I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried in In his and his tomb is with us to this day.

38:38

So this is a team that you can go to and visit today You know, I don't think no one knows where that team is But this is a tune that you can go and visit a dead body and yeah

38:46

At least at that time his hearers knew where the tomb was Exactly, and so he says because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to see one of His descendants upon his throne and it's quoting from Old Testament prophecy right there he said he speaking of David looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of The Christ what did he speak that he would sit one of his descendants upon the throne and it says he looked ahead

39:16

This is book of the resurrection of Christ that he was neither abandoned to Hades nor or this grave

39:21

Abandoned to Hades nor did his flesh suffer to cave this Jesus God raised up again to which we are all witnesses.

39:29

And so he's saying that we witnessed this resurrection. We've witnessed this ascension He is sitting at the right hand of God today

39:35

Philippians chapter 2 says that he's sitting at the right hand of God and his name is above all names that he is the

39:40

King of Kings and the Lord of Lords that this is something that you cannot get Around and so my argument would be that this kingdom was inaugurated in his first coming that his kingdom is not of this world in the sense that He is not

39:56

Of a sinful man like you and I that that his his being is a divine being and it's not of this world

40:04

It's not of the dust of this earth It just as Adam was this physical man that rose out of the earth

40:10

Christ became this physical man out of heaven and Dwelt amongst us and we're undid what?

40:17

Adam had done for us as our federal head And so I would say that when it says that it fills the whole earth that's speaking about this unseen kingdom

40:24

That is not found within walls not found within a building not found within a city

40:30

But that it is this unseen Stones upon stones that are being built upon the rock of Christ that in his death burial and resurrection

40:41

He died for every single believer today yesterday and tomorrow And then that kingdom is continually getting bigger because more and more people are believing in him

40:50

And I would argue that it is a physical kingdom because Christ became flesh 2 ,000 years ago

40:56

And since he is my kingdom, it's an absolute physical kingdom That is seen within the hearts of believers both dead and alive

41:06

That while the dead were alive that was the physical kingdom of God and it is still the physical kingdom of God because they're with Christ now and That it is physical in me and you and everyone else that professes

41:18

Christ because they're physically on the earth now But when we die, it's not like that kingdom is as that part of that kingdom has fallen away but that kingdom continues on with Christ in Christ because of what

41:30

Christ has done 2 ,000 years ago and that when it says that he Struck all at the same time that he struck all these kingdoms at the same time that when he struck this this iron in the

41:41

Clay it does say that it hits the feet first, but it says at the same time they were crushed And so I think there's a there's a significant part that we're getting out in there that it's saying that Christ struck

41:53

Rome and Jerusalem according to how I'm taking it today But what he did had impact throughout all ages before his crucifixion and after Christ's crucifixion that all kingdoms fall at His kingdom that every kingdom will always fall away but he will never fall away that his kingdoms from everlasting to everlasting and that when it says that Something that I've contemplated a lot with psalm 110 that it says that The Lord said unto my

42:19

Lord sit at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy at your footstool when any kingdom conquers another kingdom when any kingdom comes in and conquers one there's gonna be a

42:30

Couple things that would happen right there's gonna be death And then those that are alive are gonna be made footstools before the king right yeah, well

42:37

I Would argue that in that text being made subject in Psalm 110 is not speaking about those that will be future defeated

42:46

In the sense of a future judgment, but that is speaking of those that were once enemies of Christ Have now been accepted into his kingdom and have been made a subject to him.

42:58

They're subjects to him So when it says that we are priests to him that it's because we become a subject underneath those pierced feet that have that that that saved us and so I would say that that his kingdom is a physical kingdom

43:15

But when our physical Flesh dies it does not mean that his kingdom has stopped

43:21

That it's that we still are in his kingdom in heaven those three different Verses in Revelation that talks about us being priests it talks one about I think being priests in the

43:33

Millennial Kingdom if I remember right it speaks about us being priests today currently And it speaks about us being priests serving him in heaven as well

43:41

And so I would say that this kingdom is one that Just always is continuing always continuing, and it's filling the earth in the sense that it's always

43:50

When when Christ his death burial and resurrection happened and his ascension took place we see those spiritual gifts take place in The the apostles these these disciples and they're able to preach the gospel to every common ear of that day and the gospel goes around the world at a

44:05

Fast fast rate, and I would say that that's because Satan was bound in the death burial resurrection of Jesus Christ in his life ministry and all that and When Satan was bound it's speaking of that He no longer has an influence over the

44:21

Gentiles like he was before that it's now His falling this bottomless pit is him continually following falling

44:28

To not be able to deceive the nations because that's what it says that when Satan is bound you that He will no longer deceive the nation so he's no longer deceiving the nations because today

44:38

We see the gospel on every single part of the world the nations as whole have understood

44:44

There's at least one believer in every single nation right now there really is and so since that is that he's no longer to see the nations and it's because of the miraculous gift of what the apostles were able to do the

44:58

Holy Spirit working through them and It comes about in John chapter 12 verses 36,

45:05

I believe it it says that That I will cast the ruler out of the ruler of this world out and in Matthew chapter 12

45:12

He says that he has to bind the strongman in order to ransom the house And I think that the house is speaking of those that the house is speaking of the world and the ransoming of The the belongings of the strongman are those that will believe in him in a future day that he's

45:28

Gentiles that are going to be These nations that come to Christ after his death burial and resurrection. And so I think correct me if I'm wrong, but You want to argue from a millennial stance or not a millennial stance a kingdom stance of Christ Are the kingdom being in heaven right now?

45:45

Is that correct? well, I'm so Yes, and no

45:54

Because I do believe you know, the text is clear That you know Jesus Fulfills the

46:04

Covenant of David the Davidic Covenant through his resurrection and he sits on the throne of David and that the throne of David is in heaven at the right hand of the

46:14

Father And so but I believe that the kingdom of God is

46:23

The church Yes, and and whenever it's my turn. I'll kind of explain that.

46:30

Yeah, and maybe before I turn it over to you That that's that the and I'm not speaking of the visible church

46:37

I'm speaking of those that profess Christ the invisible church the body of Christ. Yeah, I say that the body of Christ It's physically on earth in the body of Christ.

46:45

It's physically in the heaven all those things encompass the fullness of the kingdom. Yeah That's what my argument would be so yeah

46:53

Yeah, I'll let you I'll let you explain your position now after I do that Yes, of course when it comes to Daniel chapter 2 we kind of you know

47:02

Aligned definitely we had to go the the chest of silver that the the thighs of bronze the the legs of iron and I definitely hold to the

47:13

Interpretation of the the feet being partly of iron partly of clay speaking of the

47:19

Pax Romantica the the Roman peace and that this this this stone that's carved out by no human hands that it's speaking of the

47:27

Incarnation the God -man Jesus taken on flesh and it happens at the time

47:33

So when it says that the stone strikes the statue on the feet I believe that it's speaking of that the statue that this stone comes at the time

47:44

Jesus comes at the time During the Roman peace and we see when we see that that is true.

47:51

We read scriptures. We see that this is true Rome Had was what was a kingdom that that was

48:00

Had ten nations under it Right, so this was a time in history where it was peace

48:08

It was peace because there was peace because Rome had taken control of these nations

48:15

And so I Would say where the statue was fallen. I definitely would

48:21

Agree, so what you're saying that I believe that at the cross When Jesus Christ was crucified this one moment in history.

48:30

It's it's kind of like if I take you know kind of Give like a little visual but if I but yeah, but if I was to take this paper towel and Say I I had weights on it like I had it like a table on the table

48:50

Had a hoe in the center, but if I lay this paper towel down and I had let's say weights on each corner and I was to take my finger and push through and In the same way that it would it would push through but those weights on that corner would all come to this one spot and That would fall and it would be put into that one spot.

49:12

Well, that's what I'm saying that that took place during this time So so when Christ was crucified all the kingdoms past Present and future are all being drawn to this one moment of time when

49:27

Christ was crucified Everything past present future is being put under the feet of Christ.

49:34

I absolutely love that analogy By the way, that was wonderful. That was great. Yeah Working with what

49:41

I had that was great My wife thinks that's the best thing about me. I just I just I can look within two

49:50

Sorry, I didn't mean it. Well, I didn't mean to interrupt you because that was One day yes, so so So I believe that when it's talking about the statues fall a lot like the reason why it didn't and because at this time

50:06

Babylon was destroyed long before Christ came so what the music Persians and Greece But it came at the time of Rome and Rome at that time wasn't destroyed until hundreds of years later

50:17

All right, but the the idea is is he saying that when his kingdom comes? past present and future

50:25

All kingdoms everything is going to be put under the feet of Christ Why because Christ Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures.

50:33

He was buried on the third day. He rose He lived a life. We could not live and he died the death that we should die

50:40

He took our place on the cross and because he has done this You and I today we bow our knee and confess with our mouth that he is

50:48

Lord But one day every knee is going to bow whether it they bend it or it breaks and their tongue will confess him as Lord whether it's

50:57

Jesus Christ is Lord now, or it's the screams and and the screams of their and the smoke or their torment like like they're going to say they're going to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is

51:10

Lord and it will be to the glory of God the Father But when he when you're talking about this kingdom that comes right this

51:18

This kingdom that comes so I want to take you back, you know to the the Abrahamic, you know

51:25

So well, let's go back to the Davidic Covenant. I mean, I'm sorry not the David at the Adamic Covenant God made a covenant with Adam Adam broke this covenant and He and he tells them if you eat of this tree you will die.

51:39

Well, how does he die? He removes him from the tree of life Removing Adam from the tree of life is how

51:46

Adam died if Adam would have kept this covenant He would have been able to eat from the tree of life him and his posterity and they would have lived forever

51:53

By removing Adam from the garden from the presence of the tree of life. This is how

51:59

Adam dies And this is how you and I die Okay God Takes from the descendants of Adam and he and he and he begins a kingdom people through Abraham okay, and then

52:18

He gives this kingdom people a land and a law through the Mosaic Covenant and through the

52:24

Davidic Covenant He gives this kingdom people a king. Yeah. All right. This is an earthly kingdom people

52:31

He he brought them about through Abraham Through the law of Moses he gives them a land the land of Canaan and he gives them a law and the idea was keep this law and Live in the land break this law and you will be removed from the land

52:49

We see over and over they broke this law. They were moved from they were moved from the land the sacrificial system was given as a way to not as a way for Forgiveness of sins in the sense of eternal salvation

53:02

But forgiveness of sin as that record of debt claim that they could continue to live in that land of Canaan It was not an an eternal salvation, but it was an earthly salvation

53:14

So everything dealing with Jews was very earthly keep keep the

53:19

Covenant earthly promises break the Covenant Earthly curses you see what

53:25

I'm saying? Yep. All right, and then he gives to them an earthly King David David was the earthly King Jesus fulfills the

53:35

Davidic Covenant Like you said he was he was born and he of the tribe of Judah the scepter shall not pass from Judah He he comes from the line of David one would sit on his throne would be forever if if Jesus at this time before his crucifixion

53:54

Like it's impossible for someone to sit on a throne on earth forever like in a physical skin without this glorification that that Jesus took whenever he

54:05

Was given back the glory, you know And just to prove that and in John chapters 17 he he

54:17

He he speaks about the glory that he shared with the father and so whenever he was resurrected he had this glory back and and But when he was resurrected and he went to be

54:30

Ascended into the heaven. He sits down on this throne in heaven, right?

54:36

So he fulfills According to the Apostle Peter he fulfills the

54:42

Davidic Covenant. He right now. Well he then 30 beasts 30

54:48

AD sat down on the throne of David He right now is on the throne of David then and now ruling and reigning

54:57

All right. Now the kingdom So you have the earthly kingdom, but then you have the heavenly kingdom the kingdom of heaven

55:07

John chapter 3 Nicodemus comes to him and Jesus says to him unless you're born again, you cannot see the kingdom of heaven

55:16

All right. Now if the kingdom of heaven was only in heaven was only a heavenly reality

55:22

Was only something that you could see in heaven Why would he say you cannot see unless you're born again now in order to enter the old covenant a

55:31

Jew only had to be born When a Jew male or female were born they were in the old covenant

55:38

Now the male child would take the sign of the covenant which was circumcision And so and he's telling

55:45

Nicodemus who is in the old covenant unless he's born again He cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, which is the new covenants

55:53

And then he says unless you're born of water and the Spirit you cannot well first one was see this is with your eyes

55:59

Second one is you cannot enter And the word born again means born from above unless God does something on your behalf

56:09

You cannot enter this. This is not earthly. You cannot be born naturally born into this kingdom

56:18

God has to born you birth you and that is through the preaching of the gospel what

56:25

Christ Jesus has done all always said I Always will say it the covenant of redemption and God purpose to save the people

56:33

Jesus came and accomplished the purpose This is through his life death the burial and resurrection

56:39

Living the life who cannot live down the death that we should die The Holy Spirit applies that purpose through the message so when we preach this message about Jesus and what he has done the

56:49

Holy Spirit applies this purpose and As we're preaching this and the way the

56:54

Holy Spirit applies this purpose is is that they are born from above They go from not believing

57:01

To believing and I mentioned earlier probably in our other podcast where I was talking about Intellectually believing and actually believing in your heart

57:10

We live in a world where many people have professed with their mouth that Jesus Christ is

57:15

Lord But in order to be a true Christian You also have to believe something scientifically impossible and that is that God raised this

57:25

Jesus from the dead Right, and so whenever you hear this message you go something

57:33

No less than a miracle takes place you go from not believing to believing you're born again

57:39

You're given faith to believe you have You you now see the kingdom of God you now understand why this this church exists the body of Christ and you enter in by faith

57:58

Alone faith alone believing trusting in this faith that you you enter in by is given to you so this is what

58:06

I would call for Renza, so Not seeing and seeing would be forensic

58:12

Transaction and then not having faith and entering in by faith will be an ethical transformation

58:19

Something happens to you and now you're able to enter into the kingdom, which

58:25

I believe is the church And so and I would and I would say although it is the heavenly kingdom

58:33

It is an earthly reality You know you mentioned something about Him saying that the kingdom of God is not of this world

58:43

The kingdom of God is in the midst of you But he also speaks of his disciples and John 17 saying that his disciples were not of this world

58:52

When clearly they were in the world So you can be not of the world and be in the world

59:00

And so I would would agree with you that of course the kingdom of heaven is in heaven

59:06

But the kingdom of heaven is also on earth when you become a Christian you are entering the kingdom of heaven

59:13

Yeah, and that is on earth You know when

59:18

I became a Christian, I didn't I didn't die and go to heaven I Became a

59:24

Christian I I've entered the new covenant by faith alone in Jesus Christ and the faith alone that brought me into the coven is something that Was given given to me for by grace you are saved through faith.

59:35

And this is not of yourself This is not of yourself. The nearest antecedent is faith. God gave me faith to believe something.

59:42

It's scientifically impossible You see what I'm saying and so now I Trust Jesus I'm in this kingdom and I believe where it says that this this

59:54

This kingdom it's on earth and it grows so I believe that every time the

01:00:00

Gospels preached in the Holy Spirit applies the purpose and Someone becomes a

01:00:06

Christian that mountain gets bigger That that mountain is actually the temple of God the body of Christ That's on earth growing and one day

01:00:17

I believe it's going to cover the whole earth now I don't believe it in a sense that most post mill Believe it.

01:00:23

So a lot of post mill would argue that this is saying that the earth will be I mean that the world will Be Christian eyes but the

01:00:30

Bible never says that the earth will be Christian eyes it only goes as far as to say that the

01:00:35

That this mountain will cover the whole earth or it says that the knowledge of the

01:00:41

Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea Now go back to the intellectual believer.

01:00:47

He has this knowledge, but he's not a true believer And so I believe that everyone before the coming of Christ is going to know about The gospel they're gonna know

01:01:00

I mean, I mean everyone now knows that there's a God creation declares his glory

01:01:06

Paintings, I mean painters paint paintings paintings don't paint themselves builders build buildings buildings don't build themself

01:01:14

It takes someone some someone with a mind to create and make something

01:01:22

The heavens declare the glory of God If you say hey, I believe in the

01:01:27

Big Bang Well, guess what someone had to beat the drum if there was a Big Bang someone had to bang it

01:01:33

Like, you know, it doesn't make any sense if it's a scientific Impossibility that nothing created everything like that's that doesn't make sense

01:01:42

Yep, nothing if there was nothing in the beginning then there's there would be nothing now and there's no such thing as a beginning

01:01:49

In order for there to be something Someone had to create it. I cannot take a couch in one hand

01:01:57

And not that I'm strong enough or loves in a love seat in the other hand rub it together and produce a chair because non -living things can't create

01:02:06

Stuff but living things can a man and a woman can come together Rub together and in a way to produce a living channel

01:02:17

As possible Okay But it takes life to produce life

01:02:22

And so when you look around you see puppy dogs, you see cats you see butterflies you see birds

01:02:28

You see squirrels it's deers and and all this other stuff. You know that there has to be

01:02:35

Someone had to create these things and what I'm saying is is that it is God and everyone knows that there's a

01:02:42

God but what the What this is telling us is that everyone's going to know

01:02:49

How to get to this God and that is through Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ comes at the second advent everyone's going to Have knowledge of what

01:03:02

Jesus I mean true knowledge not this TBN. Give me your money Christianity Crap, we see on TV, but true knowledge of what

01:03:10

Christ Jesus has done for us and I'm you know And of course, I don't believe everyone's going to receive it or anything because we don't see that now

01:03:19

There's there's always going to be even among It's always going to be in the church

01:03:26

True believers intellectual believers and non -believers like right the wheat in the tares.

01:03:32

This isn't this is a reality It's always going to be so Yeah, I don't see anywhere in Scripture that that that says it's not

01:03:41

But I do believe that this is speaking of the kingdom of heaven on earth It's going to grow and cover the whole earth

01:03:47

The whole earth is going to have knowledge of what God has done for us in Christ Does that make sense?

01:03:54

Yeah, absolutely. So So you would say that that that isn't a current reality yet that that's going to be a future time that the whole world

01:04:03

Will know those kind of things. Is that what I believe like in Hebrews chapter 2 verse 5 it talks about The world to come and The the word for world there is oikomene and at the time the oikomene was just the

01:04:20

Roman Providence ten nations But it said the oikomene to come that it was going to grow and then you know

01:04:29

It's been close to 2 ,000 years and it's grown a whole lot. And so it is a current reality

01:04:35

But I would also say and So pastor cow my the other elder at our church his wife

01:04:43

Julie Listened to a podcast that I was on and I gave an analogy and she said it really

01:04:49

Brought it to life to her and that and I can the analogy was about the kingdom of God like the

01:04:54

Bible explains it as a mountain As a stone that grows into a mountain Putting leaven in a loaf and the leaven covers the whole loaf

01:05:04

But I explained it to her as a child being born When a woman has a child the child does not come out of her body fully grown.

01:05:14

Yeah You know when the child comes out, it's an infant Then it's a toddler

01:05:22

Then it's a brat. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Did I say brat? I'm sorry Young child, you know, then it's you know, he said brain wrong.

01:05:32

Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and so it grows so that child doesn't come out fully grown a male baby doesn't come out a man a female

01:05:41

Baby doesn't come out a woman. Yeah that child Takes life and then it grows into adulthood

01:05:50

Yeah, and and and and so I believe that when Christ came and in 3

01:05:55

BC 4 BC at that time was born And that the same way that he grew and to be a man that the kingdom of God is growing on earth

01:06:05

To its full potential. Yeah, and then right now I still belong Like if you were to tell me that this church is still in its infancy

01:06:14

I wouldn't argue with you right because we could have thousands of years left but if you would tell me that it's probably a

01:06:23

Man, I wouldn't argue with you then there I don't know the stage of the church the you know, the child like the

01:06:30

Bible doesn't give me that much information but I do know it's a present reality because It's there's no longer there's more than 12

01:06:39

It started out with 12. Yeah, then it was 150 then it was 5 ,000 more then there was 3 ,000 more and then how much more 500 years from then and then 500 years from then and then like it's growing

01:06:52

China Right is having a huge growth in Christianity right now

01:06:57

I mean, there's more Christians in China than there are people in the world. I mean, right Praise God praise

01:07:03

God. Hallelujah. I would say it's a present reality, but I wouldn't say Like I wouldn't say that the whole earth is because I made a lot of people

01:07:13

I know a lot of Supposed. Well, I know a lot of folks that grew up in the church. They can't tell me a lick about Christ And I just believe that there's gonna come a time where everyone will be able to tell you about Christ Even though they don't believe that this knowledge of him will spread.

01:07:34

I got you I got you and then

01:07:41

I believe that when that there's gonna come a point that when that happens then Jesus Christ will come To another to to to inaugurate it out.

01:07:49

I'm sorry What about now? No, you're good. Yeah, I just like the last 10 seconds just like sped up real fast for me

01:07:58

So I didn't hear anything that you just said the last 10 seconds, but okay. Yes, go ahead. Sorry Yeah, so once this takes place,

01:08:03

I believe Listen but yeah, so once this takes place like the whole earth is covered with the not

01:08:09

The earth is filled with the knowledge of the Lord. I believe then Jesus will come back for his second advent will inaugurate the kingdom

01:08:18

Well, the the living and the dead will be I mean he would judge the living and the dead the resurrection of the bodies

01:08:25

I'll take that will take place the separation of the sheep's and goats. There's going to be that the resurrection of the dead

01:08:31

There's gonna be those who come about the grave clothed and the men of dust This will be those who are in Adam their

01:08:38

Adam is their federal head There's gonna be some that that which

01:08:43

I hope are a whole lot more than those are in Adam are going to come out the grave Clothed in the man of heaven.

01:08:50

This will be those whose federal head is Jesus Christ the last Adam And so you so so at the time of the judgment you're either gonna be in Adam or you're gonna be in Christ those that are in Adam are going to be sentenced to punishment those that are in Christ will be

01:09:10

You know with Christ forever fully bought full body glorified

01:09:17

Living their best life now then so I don't know

01:09:26

Right, it's pretty simple, but it's not I Like it yeah,

01:09:32

I like it I I don't think you and I are disagreeing on a No, I know what you mean though speaking of because I I would argue though with the whole the whole earth

01:09:43

Stuff that because I I do think that the whole earth was overtaken by the gospel already in the sense that the gospel is

01:09:52

Circumnavigated the entire earth right it you can go and find a church in China Like you mentioned you can go and find a church in Africa.

01:09:58

You can go find a a church I'm a good church a biblical church totally totally totally and so my my thinking on it though is like Just how you spoke of with Christ being born and raising to adulthood like that Adam Those that have

01:10:14

Adam as their federal hood and die as his federal and when Adam died the entire world died with him, right?

01:10:20

So the child that is born a hundred years from now that never has faith in Christ and dies an unbeliever

01:10:26

He died with Adam He's his federal head, right? So yeah when

01:10:32

I when I think of how Christ Bought the entirety of the kingdom 2 ,000 years ago

01:10:41

It's in the same way that when Adam sin He represented the baby that's gonna be born a hundred years from now.

01:10:49

And so Like your analogy with the paper towel. I don't have a paper towel around me dang it But just like you said that that point in time

01:10:57

Pulls in all the rest right it that that's where it all falls apart on is that one singular point of time?

01:11:03

And so yeah, yeah, so I would say that it that that's already a reality. Yes, it is not happened

01:11:10

Yeah, so so it's as good as done. It's it's like paying the down payment because in Galilee, I mean in Hebrews 2

01:11:18

Chapter 2 beginning in verse 5 it says that it's already taken place He's all the root the rule of this world has already been judged on John chapter 12

01:11:26

He has he has put to death. I mean he has defeated the one who has the power of death

01:11:31

This speaking of the devil it's already happened, but there's a real devil Roman the going to and fro right now

01:11:38

Yeah, so it's already happened and it also says that all things like you It says that all things have been put under his feet.

01:11:45

He has subjected all things But the first Corinthians chapter 15 he is subjecting all things so it's happened, but it's happening right and so That kind of answers just real quick that kind of answer so somebody so Mike asked about how he was wanting us to look at Daniel chapter 7 verse 13 and I would just say real quickly in there it does not say that he came from the ancient of days like how

01:12:11

I Dispensational pre -millennialists would say that it cried that the Millennial Kingdom is speaking about a future day where he comes from the father to receive his

01:12:18

Bride, it says that he come came up to The ancient of days and so my argument from Daniel chapter 7 13 is his

01:12:26

Ascension that when he came up to the father He was sat on the right hand of the throne and that he was given all dominion power and so on and so forth that we see their list in Daniel chapter 7 per Philippians chapter 2 and Ephesians chapter 1 and Several other places that speak about that.

01:12:42

But so would you say? Kind of going back on that so would you say that his kingdom is inaugurated already in his first advent or would you say that that And when

01:12:54

I mean he inaugurated I mean started it began that we're in that moment I'm gonna say it's inaugurated, but it hasn't been fully consummated.

01:13:00

Okay. Copy. That's exactly what I would say, too I probably said something where I probably said it wrong whenever I was talking

01:13:09

I'll go back and listen to some of the messages that I've done. I was like, you know, that's not what I'm stupid I know

01:13:14

I do the same thing. I'm happy that there's another one that does that I do the exact same thing But but but like all the all the fantastic preachers.

01:13:22

I listen to I catch them messing up all the time So it gives me hope Yeah, that's right. That's right.

01:13:27

Like I'm never heard in my son In a couple weeks ago and so you have a has in the

01:13:34

Bible Yep but when I and I was calling him a has all week as I was studying but when I got up in the

01:13:39

Bible with the pulpit I was calling him has a House very consistent with it.

01:13:45

That's awesome. That's good. That's really good so my my my thinking is is that just to expound a little bit more on that Kingdom language that when

01:13:55

Jesus says that Matthew chapter 16 verse 18 after the confession of Peter about him being the

01:14:01

Christ the Son of the Living God He says upon this rock. I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall never prevail against it

01:14:08

What what are gates? representative of kingdoms That gate of the devil will never prevail against his church that has been built upon him

01:14:18

I think that is speaking about his kingdom being built upon the rock that we see in Daniel chapter 2 being cut out and In Dan and John chapter 7 you made mention of it that that you are not of this world

01:14:28

I send you into the world just as I have been sent into the world and that his prayer in Daniel or in not

01:14:33

Daniel John chapter 17. He says that he prays that the evil one Let me let me read it before I miss quote

01:14:40

He said he prays that the devil can't take us away that we can't be pulled away from from God And that's that goes back to the eternal security

01:14:48

But I think that talks also about his purchasing so it says I do not ask thee to take them out of the world

01:14:54

But to keep them from the evil one So we have Christ our mediator Who has built us as an everlasting kingdom in his first coming in this?

01:15:03

Inaugurated kingdom that he has done and he has prayed that our enemy this other kingdom the evil one the devil the gates of Hades Cannot prevail against us.

01:15:13

They will not take us away from him and it's because we're built on Christ So I think the because I agree everything with what you're saying.

01:15:21

I would disagree though with Just as as has Christ's kingdom is could still be in its infancy or not, right?

01:15:29

I I can't say fully right? Yeah, I wouldn't say that it is Right and I I didn't take it as that as you were but the reason

01:15:40

I Couldn't say that that it's in its infancy is that I feel like if I said that that would mean that I don't think

01:15:45

Christ Is coming back tomorrow, right? Yeah, cuz you know, I don't think Christ is coming back tomorrow I'm not saying it right the

01:15:51

MS the I always mess up with that word. Yeah How how do you say it?

01:15:57

You know, you're saying right? Yeah, the embassy so that Christ this Embassy, yep

01:16:04

But like just how you would say pre emmas preeminent one and so like I think that Christ could come back today right now tomorrow and it's

01:16:14

Dependent upon the fulfilling of those that the federal heads represented

01:16:19

So if Adam doesn't represent any more of the world and there's no more people that are to be born that are to die in Adam there's most likely that means that the finality of the believers of Christ that Christ died for have came to Realization in that and since those things have all been just like how you said that everything has been is being made

01:16:39

Subject to him and has been made subject to him in that past and present tense and future tense in that sense

01:16:46

When those two things are filled Then that would mean that the entirety of the world has come to the knowledge of Christ Or has come to the rejecting of Christ.

01:16:55

It's one or the other and that we since we see the Gospels circum Circumvent the well not circumvent.

01:17:01

That's the wrong word Encompassing the entire world, right? We see it all the way around I think that that could happen at any time and I I would look into like Matthew Or is it

01:17:13

Matthew? Oh, I let me look here real fast. Is it Matthew? It's not Matthew 12

01:17:20

Matthew Matthew chapter 7. That's what it is. Matthew chapter 7 Verse 14 it says for the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life and few there

01:17:31

Few are those who find it and then he talks us to tells us to beware of false prophets and before that he talks about the narrow gate and of course the narrow gate in a narrow way, so I would have a

01:17:44

Different interpretation of Matthew 7 With the I got you. I believe that this is speaking about you know, he's speaking to the

01:17:52

Jews The narrow gate is the sacrificial system. I mean,

01:17:57

I'm sorry the he is the narrow gate The wide gate is the sacrificial system. Yeah, and so I would see that this is not even something

01:18:06

Personally then like this is the law. This is not gospel. This is this is definitely a

01:18:15

Preterist idea and and then like even down here where it says Really yeah, yeah, not everyone who says to me

01:18:24

Lord Lord Will enter the kingdom of heaven again right here the kingdom of heaven. I would see just being as a

01:18:30

Christian But the one who does the will of my father who is in heaven What's the will of his father to believe in Jesus Christ on that day meaning will say to me and now he's pointing to a

01:18:39

Future date on that day meaning will say to me. Do we not prophesy in your name cast out demons in your name now?

01:18:46

They're speaking to him as Lord as God and he's saying I never knew You didn't acknowledge me as Lord and God when

01:18:54

I was in your presence. And so he and so this is really not necessarily like Like like firsthand he's speaking to the

01:19:02

Jews who are denying that he is the Messiah that he is Yahweh And at this time they would have been around, you know prophesying

01:19:12

I mean, that was a big part of the thing and prophecies of demons being cast out Demons were being cast out in those days.

01:19:19

We don't see that stuff happening now. Marty works done in his name the name of Yahweh Doesn't necessarily have to be

01:19:27

Jesus Like this was something that's taken place right there Nowhere in the

01:19:33

I don't see hardly eat nowhere in this the sermon on a mount is gospel.

01:19:39

It's a wall Okay, I saw I I Did not know that that was that was a view that was held so that I just learned something right there because I yeah the way that I've read 13 and 14 all the way through and I still would hold to it is that it's speaking of Of a feed that when it says that day there will be many that say

01:19:59

I think of course that day is gonna be the Last day, but he's specifically right Okay Those who denied that he that he was in the

01:20:06

Christ like you think he's saying on that day you will call me Lord But you ain't calling me Lord.

01:20:12

So So I mean because when you look at it So like if you go to back to verse 13 of chapter 5 He says you are the salt of the earth the

01:20:19

Jews were called the salt of the earth It says but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its salt in this be restored?

01:20:25

It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown down and trampled under people's feet And we see that Jerusalem was thrown down and trampled under people's feet

01:20:34

And it says you are the light of the world you go back into the Old Testament The Jews were called to be the light of the world and then he gets into the law

01:20:43

Yeah like this is Law this is not gospel. I mean,

01:20:49

I mean he tells him unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees You cannot enter the kingdom. That's that's not gospel.

01:20:55

That's law We wouldn't tell somebody that so I'm tracking.

01:21:05

So what I would go to with with Matthew chapter 7 Versus and I would have to read around the surrounding context, which

01:21:15

I haven't done as of lately But when I when I see that it talks about there being false prophets and That are gonna come to you in sheep clothing

01:21:24

I think that that is I I would argue that when I read that kind of stuff I see that as an

01:21:31

Idealistic view that that there's always going to be false prophets in the last 2 ,000 years from the time of death

01:21:36

Jesus's death burial and resurrection till today till tomorrow when he comes again, right whenever that happens

01:21:42

There's always gonna be these false prophets And I Yeah, I would say the way that we would view prophets in our days.

01:21:50

Yes, but not the way that he's speaking of prophets Okay, I got I gotta reread this text now as as yeah, because Jesus fills the prophets

01:22:00

Yeah, I mean, I mean whenever we get to Daniel chapter 9, I'll really Go in to explain how the prophets did two things.

01:22:09

They prophesied of the coming of the Messiah and the coming judgment Yeah, like like those are the two things that the prophets did in the

01:22:15

Old Testament a coming judgment against Jerusalem and the coming of The Messiah like those were the two main things at his coming

01:22:22

There is no more a John was the last prophet that prophesied the coming of the of the

01:22:27

Christ and the judgment upon Jerusalem Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophets. There is no more prophets like like for what he's speaking about the

01:22:37

The Jews produced the prophets not Gentiles. Yeah. Yep. And so now we have people who claim to be prophets

01:22:44

All right, this is not what he's speaking about. Mm -hmm. I got you. That's interesting So and so Matthew is a very

01:22:50

Jewish book and I want to go to Luke it has a little more Ideas for the

01:22:56

Gentiles, but for sure Matthew's very Jewish So I would though argue though that that that 13

01:23:02

I think that generally speaking of even I think Throughout the the church age these last 2 ,000 years.

01:23:08

I think that there's always been Just as Israel always had a well as a nation had a large sum of people

01:23:16

There was always a remnant that was an actual believing Yahweh Israel true Israel in that sense Likewise, we see that the church today.

01:23:23

There's a lot of people that proclaim Christ and Proclaim to be a part of that church But there's a very small remnant that has actually been born again that has faith in Yahweh just like how we see in Israel and so I would argue that There are always going to be few that find it in that sense that they're that the the kingdom is always

01:23:45

Is a reality, right? I would take application. That's what I'm saying I would use application but I would say in the context he's speaking of him

01:23:57

Versus the the sacrificial system, right? Okay. Well that so would you say but in the future though whenever that second coming does happen is

01:24:07

Christ I think that the biggest part that post mill and all mill people I Believe that there's gonna be more

01:24:15

Christians. Uh, so I'm a Calvinist. Yeah, I believe yeah

01:24:21

You know, I Believe in the ale and the tulip limited atonement, but I believe limited atonement but I don't believe that it's limited and the amount of people meaning

01:24:32

I believe that I Truly believe there's probably gonna be more saved than damned Okay, so so when you so that's where I was going with that So when

01:24:41

Christ comes to the world the way I see it is is that it he's coming to His bride in the sense that he's coming to receive his elect

01:24:51

But it is also filled with a whole bunch of goats, right that it's still filled with with many the world

01:24:59

Yes, yes Yeah, absolutely. And so that's that's how I how

01:25:04

I would view it in that that term pessimistic Postmill, but I think

01:25:10

Christ is coming to a world that will see him again That same pierced one that they rejected 2 ,000 years ago.

01:25:17

No, the Jews rejected that 2 ,000 years ago The Jews were the ones who pierced him Yeah Yeah, but it was still under when

01:25:25

I saw him on the cross. I saw him on the cross They looked upon him whom they have pierced. Yeah, and I and that was fulfilled then

01:25:32

I agree with that But I'm saying that when he does come again, he's still gonna have those physical wounds. I think that's

01:25:38

Yeah But I'm saying That I think when he comes to the world that that he his elect are gonna be fully purchased in him

01:25:50

There won't be one that hasn't been saved. They're already saved I just think that there's going to be fewer in number than that of the world in that sense even after resurrection,

01:26:01

I think there's going to be a Small remnant if you were looking into the world and everybody that had ever been alive is alive in the resurrection

01:26:11

You were looking at them all in an ocean before you and you have the sheep on the right and the goats on the left you're gonna have a

01:26:18

Minuscule amount of sheep compared to goats and that's yes And yeah I was to look at the world today and you know look at the world and look at the church

01:26:26

Like it's hard not to agree with what you're saying. Like it really right, right, right. It really is

01:26:32

But I again I do have I do ho to the post -millennial hope but I I would say the whole world

01:26:41

Like all the all those Like there's gonna be a time in history with everyone living in the world

01:26:48

It's gonna be Christian like like the but I don't see the Bible teaching that anywhere But I do believe that I'm not saying we're in our infancy.

01:26:55

I don't believe that Of course, I could be wrong and I'd be fine if I am wrong, you know, and then he does come tomorrow

01:27:03

How great would that be to see him? Amen? But at the same time, I don't

01:27:08

I don't think so. I I I I do believe that he's going to save the world And the the world will be uncursed that that he is removing, you know

01:27:19

If you imagine Adam biting into that fruit, whatever kind of fruit that is

01:27:24

The world sees as an apple. So let's just go with that When he bit into that Apple what

01:27:31

Jesus has done on the cross is Is removing the teeth marks from the

01:27:37

Apple and that one day there's gonna be as if it never happened Mm -hmm.

01:27:43

You see what I'm saying? He is uncursing the earth now will that actually be fulfilled in our not in our lifetime, but in in Present day time or would this actually come to its fulfillment at the consummation?

01:28:03

I believe it will at the consummation, but I believe it's working its way to it though right now.

01:28:09

It does not look it Just like you can see in chapter 2 verse 5. I mean chapter 2 beginning verse 5

01:28:15

Hebrews It says we we cannot see this now, but he has already subdued the world

01:28:22

Subjected the world hypotoso That's all even though you would say Just that that those teeth marks have already been removed in that cross that curse being removed

01:28:36

Yeah, yeah through that. It's being removed. Okay, it has been but it Okay, even that moment in time.

01:28:43

It's like that that paper towel all of that So the beginning of time and the last day it's all being

01:28:50

Pushed to that are moved to that center that that center point in time To where Christ was crucified and it's all going to be under his feet

01:29:03

Secularism everything and whatever else the world can dream up. I got you in the in the future

01:29:08

I like it that that that's gonna scare Christians and or I think they can't talk about it

01:29:16

Covid all of it's gonna be put under his feet. I Hope that makes sense.

01:29:25

Okay, cool. No, I It does make sense. So Yeah, I like I said,

01:29:31

I don't I think we disagree on far less than what we agree. Yeah We're very for sure.

01:29:38

I think that if we started diving into individual texts like we were talking about Yeah Like so much of me wants to become an all -millennial

01:29:48

Because it's more acceptable, especially in my camp as a reformed

01:29:53

Baptist. I hope to the 1689 Federalist You know Hey, you basically see how can you be a federalist and a post -millennial is like like the two doesn't

01:30:05

Fit, but I just say I'm just trying to be biblical Hey, so to you know to get along Brother Again y 'all would have

01:30:18

You would definitely have to see that the kingdom is real on earth Yeah, which

01:30:25

I really do I think I think it's real on earth, but I just Do you think because we are those that are subject to the king?

01:30:34

Well, so where I would say that I believe that Christ is our

01:30:40

King in heaven right now sitting upon David's throne at the right hand of the father that he rules and reigns

01:30:46

Over his kingdom right now, and I would say that his kingdom 100 % 100 % without a doubt his kingdom is

01:30:55

Israel true Israel the the daughters of Zion the sons of Abraham His see the church the all those synonyms that we see all throughout the old in the

01:31:03

New Testament The church is the body of Christ And so we have our federal head our

01:31:08

King our priest our prophet in heaven right now. So I am father I would say that the church the individual when he dies is still part of that body

01:31:19

But he's in heaven with The king right now because that's where the king is right now

01:31:25

But the physical king is sitting at the right hand of the father. His physical bride is on earth

01:31:31

But his spiritual bride is in heaven with him right now in the sense that those that have died on are no longer with their

01:31:36

Flesh so there's kind of I would agree with all that. Yeah, cool. That's good. So yeah, I'm an omelette

01:31:42

That's what I believe in brother I Can't we're really close.

01:31:48

We are we really are really close I feel like I have to go over stuff because I'm like I want to make sure I say it and and so then if You disagree with it.

01:31:55

You can you can say no, but what the what the crap are you talking about right now? So yeah, well again,

01:32:01

I don't stay in the same line as all the all those that are post mill like a Lot of the modern -day post mill.

01:32:08

I I don't get along with it all because it's the honor. Yeah Yeah, that's a that's a huge right now, you know right now it's definitely a huge part

01:32:18

It's the same thing, you know when you tell someone your post mill, but you're not a theonomist. All right, then you're not post mill

01:32:25

And so it's like well, maybe I'm not and I want to come to the all meal, but man y 'all be tripping on the kingdom

01:32:35

Well, man It's pushing That's 1204 here where I'm at I gotta get up at five or six and oh, yeah make some bibles

01:32:45

Yeah, man, so if you had just two more minutes before you gate went off what would be your exhortation from Daniel chapter 2

01:32:58

With the kingdom of God being an everlasting kingdom. Maybe that's a good way to end it from Daniel chapter 2

01:33:03

How would you exhort the Christian in the kingdom the reality right now? The kingdom is everlasting

01:33:09

Kingdom. How would you exhort him? Well, I think the idea would be is as you see all these these these kingdoms from that statue

01:33:18

That all of them have fallen and that this stone carved out by no human hand

01:33:24

Which is Christ in his incarnation in his kingdom that's on earth When it was established

01:33:32

But it will never end there was there's going to come a moment in time when Christ comes and he will inaugurate the kingdom and and heaven will be realized on earth and in and that That the church that the kingdom isn't a type pointing to a greater fulfillment but that the church is a substance that that Israel was a type and that the church is the anti type that the church is the eschatological

01:34:07

Israel the like this is what it was all going to the kingdom the earthly kingdom was a type of the heavenly kingdom that we're in now under the the true

01:34:22

King David, which is Christ Jesus our Lord He is the son of David and he sits on his throne and this throne is everlasting

01:34:32

His kingdom is everlasting. We are his body We're called the temple of God.

01:34:39

Jesus is the fulfillment of the temple Jesus like it We are the bride of Christ.

01:34:44

He is our husband And he's coming back Jesus is coming back and when he does he will inaugurate the kingdom

01:34:53

He will give the kingdom over to his father This is something that that that that heaven and earth are actually going to be one

01:35:05

You know one as in WNE and They're going it's you know

01:35:15

At the end of the day whether you're an all -meal postmeal Pre -meal the end result is the same.

01:35:24

Yeah, our Lord Jesus Christ will has Established this kingdom and he will inaugurate it and we will be with him on earth

01:35:35

That is heaven forever With our King with our bridegroom.

01:35:41

Yeah, and and and and And there's no way you or I or any other

01:35:51

Dummy or intelligent man can describe what it's going to be like being with God You know five minutes after we pass we'll know more about theology than any seminarian

01:36:08

Like but but but I think that would be the the idea is it's that this kingdom that has been

01:36:20

Established Will one day be a One day be consummated when Jesus Christ comes he is coming back whether it's today or whether it's 5 ,000 years from now

01:36:30

He is coming back And although I don't believe I don't live in the same light as you as the emissary of Christ Believing that he could come back in five minutes.

01:36:40

I live my life as If he can right because he can

01:36:46

Okay, I'm not saying he can't You know, he surely can but my feet my theology leads me to believe

01:36:57

That he's going to save the world for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whoever

01:37:02

Believes in him should not perish but have eternal life for 17 for God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world

01:37:11

But to save the world and so I believe that the world will be saved that he is

01:37:17

Undoing the bite that as far as the earth was cursed He is uncursed in the earth joy to the world

01:37:24

As far as the the curse is found. He's uncursed in the earth And and it was all done by what took place

01:37:33

Close to 2 ,000 years ago when they nailed my Savior hand and feet to a Roman cross

01:37:38

And that uncut stone, you know, amen Well, cool.

01:37:45

Thank you for having me on brother. Appreciate it always man Again, I'm gonna do this one.

01:37:51

Yeah, I'm gonna do two a week and and So this one just be freestyling for right now we're just gonna be looking at some eschatology and hopefully we get your friend on here and then maybe

01:38:02

I Don't know maybe on our own the one that we're doing together The open -earth theology or on this one we can get into covenant theology one day and really break through maybe even have a

01:38:14

Presbyterian on to kind of Outline what they believe and then we'll kind of go through the

01:38:20

Reformed Baptist covenant theology. I like it and convert them I Love it

01:38:29

Yeah, so anyone that's listening right now if you haven't jumped on our

01:38:35

YouTube pages So we have the open -earth theology YouTube page in the in the trailer park theology

01:38:41

YouTube page Click on there like share Help us out help us to to get the word out.

01:38:49

We're not trying to Which I probably like to do a podcast on this where John says he must increase and And I must decrease and so we're not doing this so that we can increase

01:39:04

We're doing this so that he can increase Yeah, I think a lot of people don't understand that when it comes to ministry that a true minister is not in ministry to to grow his brand all right, we're in ministry to Spread the message of Jesus Christ.

01:39:26

Why so the Holy Spirit can apply the purpose And as many people that can hear the message of Christ The Holy Spirit has that an opportunity to apply the purpose of what

01:39:37

Christ Jesus has done so like and share You know hang out with us ask questions.

01:39:45

I'd love to To see what y 'all thinking but uh Braden thanks, man.

01:39:51

I really appreciate you Thank you. Yeah. All right, man.