June 15, 2018 Show with Anthony Uvenio on “Starting Your Own Grass Roots Apologetics Ministry”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this

15th day of June 2018.

I'm so delighted to have back on the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program my dear

friend Anthony Uvinio, who is co -founder of New York Apologetics.

He is a returning guest to the program and he is an enormous supporter of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Without folks like Anthony Uvinio, this program would not exist, so I cannot thank Anthony Uvinio enough

in the human language for his support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and we are going to be discussing with Anthony

today, starting your own grassroots apologetics ministry, and we're also going to be

announcing two very exciting and important upcoming events here in New York featuring

Dr. Tony Costa, who is the professor of apologetics in Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back as my guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Anthony Uvinio.

Good afternoon Chris, thanks for having me.

It's always a pleasure to be on the show with you.

By the way, do you realize you said good after goon to me?

Are you calling me a goon or something?

Or is that a subliminal thing?

Oh just wait, we got a long time together, Matt.

Well, tell our listeners about New York Apologetics.

I think that everybody should know about it, whether they live in New York or not.

Sure, New York Apologetics is an.

Apologetics organization started by myself and Nick Mitchell, who's an assistant pastor at Abundant Life Church of

God in Holbrook, and we got together and decided to start training some people up in

apologetics after a debate I had done at Long Island University

and debated an atheist professor,

Amy Karofsky, who is studying for her doctorate in philosophy, and the debate

went much better.

He helped train me and asked me questions.

He role -played an atheist, he's a real good one actually.

So the debate went much better than we had expected and it parlayed into people wanting

more of this type of stuff and more information on how to defend your faith to an atheist.

So we started teaching on the campuses and it led into a website and then it turned into a radio show and.

Now here we are.

Well, praise God and of course this involves the very theme we

are discussing today.

Before we go into more details about New York Apologetics and about starting

your own grassroots apologetic ministry, I want to let our listeners know right away about these two events

that our mutual friend Dr. Tony Costa, who is professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist

Seminary, will be participating in.

First of all, why don't you start with the event that you are more closely linked to.

It's going to be held at the Hope Reform Baptist Church in Medford,.

Long Island, New York.

Yeah, Tony is going to be preaching on, I think it's July 1st, it's that

Sunday before July 4th?

Yes, it is July 1st.

Yeah, July 1st, and anybody who's interested in hearing him, please feel free to come.

It's Hope Reform Baptist Church in Medford, New York.

You can look it up on Google.

It's real easy to find.

It's right off of Route 112 in Medford, but from what I understand he's going to be teaching and preaching in that

service on that.

Day.

Great.

Well, if anybody does want more information, Hope Reform Baptist Church of Medford, Long Island

is found at the website hopereformedli .net,

hopereformedli, standing for longisland .net, and you can call them

also

at 631 -696 -5711, 631 -696 -5711, and you can also email Pastor Rich Jensen at rjensen at

hopereformedli .net, hopereformedli .net, and I hope that as

many of you as possible can participate in that event.

That's Sunday, July 1st, and the morning worship, is that 11 a .m.?

Morning worship starts at 11 a .m., yes.

Sunday school starts at 9 45.

Now, do you know if they're having either an afternoon or evening.

Service with Tony that day?

I'm not sure.

Being that it's July 4th weekend, we might have off.

That afternoon, but I'll let you know.

All right, great, yeah.

Of course, anybody could also email me at chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

The other event that Dr. Costa is involved in is the first Iron Sharpens

Iron sponsored event in New York City.

I have been in attendance at many events, many Christian events in New York City, where I've had Iron

Sharpens Iron exhibitors, booths, and my presence was known there, but this is the first time that I will be

orchestrating and hosting, along with Pastor Andy Woodard, of a

new Reformed Baptist Church that's being planted in Manhattan, or has been planted, I should say, in Manhattan, called New Covenant

Church.

We are cooperating together to have this exciting event with Dr. Tony Costa at

the very historic First Baptist Church of New York City, which is in the Upper West Side

of Manhattan.

It's a 1 ,000 seat historic church.

The pastors of that church in history include John Gano, who is George Washington's

personal chaplain.

There is even some a legend that has been

circulating for quite a long time, a legend that is not completely without actual historic

support.

There is a legend that John Gano, the pastor there, actually baptized by immersion George

Washington, even though George Washington remained an Anglican until he died, and

there are people that dispute it, but I don't, from what I've heard, the disputers don't really

have rock -solid evidence to dispute it.

But that's not what I'm talking about here.

Tony Costa will be speaking at the historic church.

We're also, the great pastor, Spencer Cohn, pastored in the 19th century,

and I hope that all of you come, whether you live in New York or not, or all of you who are

capable of getting to New York, it would mean a great deal to me to have as many people in the Iron Sharp and Zion

Radio audience as possible to be there in New York City at the First

Baptist Church of Manhattan on Friday, July 6th at 6 30 p .m., and there's

going to be two messages spanning the time from 6 30 p .m. to 10 p .m.

The first message will be defending the Christian faith in the postmodern world,

and the second message will be the dangers of cultural Marxism in society and the

church, and also we are in the process of arranging a

very small, intimate, informal pastor's luncheon, not to the grand size that I've normally

had them, but any pastor is welcome to join us at 12 noon that afternoon, and we

are still in the process of arranging where that will be and so on, so keep in touch with me.

But if you want to attend this event or the luncheon or both, call me,

or should I say email me at chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, c

-h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com, and we'll be giving you more information with

more specific details on this event, which I'm very excited about, and I hope you, Anthony, Eugenio,

and as many folks from Hope Reform Baptist and all of those churches that are in fellowship with

Hope can come out there on Friday, July 6th.

We'll certainly do our best.

If you get me some information, we'll put it up on the New York Apologetics website and the Facebook.

Page, and we'll get it out there.

Great, and of course that number there, I keep saying that number, that email address that

you can send in questions to Anthony Eugenio is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

Well, how did you first become interested in apologetics to begin with?

I know that you were raised just as I was, as a Roman Catholic.

The only difference was you were from a family that used your hands a lot when you talked, but we still

are both raised.

Catholic.

Yeah, actually what my mom used to hold a wooden spoon, it was an extension of her hand.

Actually, and that's why I'm kind of disciplined today.

Well, my Polish mother had a wooden.

Spoon that she used as well.

It's very common in Italian households, but be that as it may, you know, growing up

Catholic, I went to Catholic school my whole life, and then graciously God intervened in my life

and saved me when I was 33 years old, brought me out of Catholicism, and

why Catholic

experience.

Search online, and I stumbled across James White's debates and Ligonier Ministries, both were very,

very formative, and I started watching all the James White's debates, so

that was the initial pull into apologetics, and then I met and married my wife,

and her mom is a Jehovah's Witness, so I would...

Oh, I never knew that part of your story.

Yeah, yeah, so that's still, unfortunately, an ongoing thing.

She's still part of the Witnesses, so I had to, you know, really study and understand what they believed,

and then one of my best friends is the one that's Pentecostal, so I got hit

from every different side as far as coming against traditional Orthodox Christianity,

and I had to battle myself out of that, and as I did that and looked up more and more information online and

studied, it just became something that, you know, was inherent to my walk with the Lord, and

eventually ended up to where we are now.

And, of course, it'd probably be wise for us to define apologetics, because of

the fact that there are a lot of new believers in our audience, and some non -Christians who

listen to this show.

People might think that you're apologizing for being a Christian, and sometimes when we hear

Christians attempting to represent the Christian faith in public, in the media especially, they do

sound like they're apologizing for being a Christian in this multicultural, pluralistic world

that we're living in, but if you could, what is apologetics?

Sure, Christian apologists are not people who walk around saying, I'm sorry all the time, that's why God made husbands, right?

So, apology, the word apologist comes from the Greek word apologia,

which comes out of 1 Peter 3 .15, set apart Christ as Lord of your heart, always be

prepared to give a defense or a reason for the hope that lies within you.

So the Greek word apologia is a person who

gives a defense or.

A reason for the things we do.

Great.

And, well, you know, you have given your testimony before, briefly, on this

show.

Why don't you, since we are talking about apologetics, and it's deeply rooted in

why we must tell those that we love, especially, let alone strangers,

but those we love especially, and those who God has providentially put in our paths,

why we must tell them that their religion, if indeed it is a false religion, we must tell them

that if we truly love them and care about their never -dying souls, and even in the body of

Christ, because we love God and we love his truth, we need

to gently and humbly, when appropriate, correct our brothers and sisters in Christ

when they are in error, especially when it's serious error.

So tell us why you actually entered into evangelical Christianity from a Roman

Catholic background.

Well, I had started dating a woman who is now my wife, and she was going to an

evangelical church in Stony Brook, and I started attending with her, because as I started to like

her more and more, I said, you know, I better not get too deep into this relationship and find out she's a nut.

Let me go check out the church she's going to.

Actually, you know, she should have been thinking that about you.

Well, she was, but that's besides the point.

It's a funny story.

She started attending her church, you know, the pastor would get

up from the pulpit, and it got to

the point where, after going for several weeks, I turned to her and asked her, I said, are you telling him things about me?

I mean, is this how the cult works, telling

him things about me?

And, you know, he talks about it from the pulpit just to get me part of this, and she promised.

At one point in time, I was,

who I met there was a Christian, and then

one day, you

don't believe in a trinity.

So I just happened to mention it to this guy.

I said, you know, a buddy of mine's a Pentecostal, and he doesn't believe in a trinity.

He says, well, I'm Pentecostal, I believe in a trinity, why don't you come to my house and we'll talk about it?

And I was like, oh, I don't even know a Pentecostal thing, a bad thing.

So to make a long story short, the following week, I ended up going to his house, and we went into his basement, and

there was a gentleman sitting there, and the guy who invited me was there, and then all of a sudden, two guys, three guys, four guys,

five or six guys started, you know,

piling into this.

I mean, you know, if I had to get out of the basement, and it was one or two guys, I know I could get out.

Seven, it's not going to happen.

So listen, this is New York, Chris, right?

So they all start sharing their testimony with me.

They start sharing their faith with me, and I was, you know, I was in hospital, too.

I was like, wow.

So finally, they asked me, you know, what's going to happen to you, you know, when you die?

I'm going to heaven.

And they said, why?

Well, one of the gentlemen asked me to read Psalm 51.

So I didn't even know where it was in my Bible, so I penned through, I start reading, and he says, no, out

loud.

And I was like, oh, this is

serious.

And now I'm going to be in some, I was very uncomfortable, but I start reading it out loud.

And as I'm reading the psalm out loud, two things are going on in my head.

The first conversation is, I have, what am

I going to say at the end of this thing?

And it says, young bulls will be slaughtered on your altar.

And it was at that moment, God basically cut my heart wide open.

And he said, you could do, you could do things your way and be slaughtered, or you, and

I, I was getting emotional.

I said, what do I do?

And they're like, what do you mean?

Statues of bulls, pictures of bulls, everything in my life revolved around some kind of bull, right?

In fact, everybody who knows you knows that you are always full of bull.

It's good to have Christian brothers like you.

Kind of turn the tables on them, because they didn't know me from a hole in the wall, and they had no idea that the last line of the psalm

talked about bulls being slaughtered, and this would resonate with me.

And this is the verse God used to just open my eyes.

And from that moment on, I changed, and I was on like this fast -forward

track to get all the information I could possibly get, because I knew people, why are

you doing this?

Why did you leave Catholicism?

That's the type of person I am.

And you know, it's

something that

Catholics,.

Including Catholics in my own family, Catholics that I know, they will

very typically respond when someone they love becomes an evangelical,

that they're in a cult, or they must be in a cult.

And it's funny, you know, because I've said to more than one Catholic after I left the

Catholic church and became an evangelical, a Reformed Baptist to be precise, so I'm

the one who's in a cult.

You're in a religion that has a leader that sits on a throne in Rome,

that believes that he's infallible when he defines teaching,

a religion that forbids its leaders to marry,

a religion that prays to dead people and statues and paintings,

and I'm the one that's in the cult.

Okay, now the thing that's interesting about that is what I

think they really mean, Roman Catholics, when they hear this.

I think it's typically your average nominal Catholic that says that, because they think that they have some kind

of security in just the fact that their family heritage

is somehow rooted in Catholicism and that they get their babies baptized and they

have their babies or their young children confirmed and they go to church on

Easter and Christmas and, you know, they have statues in the house and on the front lawn.

They think they have some kind of security in that, but when they see an evangelical who's actually committed

his life to Christ, where he may go to church three times a week, he

may, you know, refrain from doing a lot of things that used to be a

major part of his life, whereas, you know, a more religious

Catholic, I'm talking about the kind of Catholic that goes to Mass every day, they might not look at an

evangelical as a cult.

They would look at us perhaps as damned or as in a false religion, but I think it's your average person,

because it's not even your average Catholic that might say that.

It's probably your average Protestant, even, who would say, I'm talking about mainline nominal

Protestant, who would say, man, this guy is a Jesus freak.

He's an occult.

Yeah, definitely.

And I think, you know, once God does change you and now you start pursuing the things of the Lord,

it convicts the people around you.

You know, when you start acting in accordance with righteousness, and, you know, my

language changed immediately, the things I watched changed immediately, the way I handled myself at work changed

immediately, people started to feel uncomfortable because the things of the flesh, you know,

are naturally opposed to it.

It kind of makes people feel uncomfortable, whereas before, they had no problem, you know,

joking with me coarsely, you know, using foul language and that kind of stuff.

All of a sudden, you know, that changed, and, you know, I politely, you know, excused myself from that.

It just made them feel uncomfortable.

And I think that's on top of the fact that, you know, in a Roman

Catholic's mind, he has this long line of tradition that he's

supported by.

Same thing with, like, the Witnesses and these other people.

And what I find is this, when you're speaking to somebody, an occult member or, as an occult

member or a Roman Catholic, let's say, they want to win you to their church, you know, the Jehovah's

Witnesses want to win you to the Watchtower, the Mormons want to win you to the Tabernacle, they want to win

you to their church, whereas Evangelicals want to win you to Jesus, they want to win you to a person, not an

organization.

That's a big difference.

So once you do meet Jesus, you meet the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, and he changes your heart, you know, all

bets are off.

Now you're in a completely different realm.

It's not about.

An organization, it's about a person.

Amen.

Well, as far as New York apologetics, so far, anyway, it

seems from what I have observed, at least for now, the primary

emphasis of New York apologetics is bringing Christianity to those who are

agnostics and atheists.

It's not yet, at least that I am aware of, been involved in major events

that would be more either in -house debates between Christians of opposing theological

views or even other religions like Muslims or Roman Catholics or Jehovah's

Witnesses or Mormons or whoever.

It seems to me more targeted towards the agnostic and atheist.

Am I right on that?

Yeah, in the sense that any of the conferences that we had or the debates we

had have held at Stony Brook University and the other one at Long Island University,

atheists and agnostics.

However, when we're in a church setting, we are teaching them, aside from

arguments against atheism, we're also teaching them about Jesus being the only way.

We're talking to them about the essential Christian doctrines, not the non -essential ones.

We're not going to bring up issues of God's free sovereign grace

or the gifts of the Spirit or anything like that, because when we're in a church, we're there to

equip them with the information they need to defend Christianity.

It's the pastor's job at that point to teach them whatever doctrine that that particular church holds.

We're not going to start dividing over those things.

I mean, at a point in time, once the United States is fully Christian, yeah, then let's start

going.

And I don't mean to minimize it.

I mean, those things are very important.

You know, Nick and I hold several different views, and we go over those over and.

Over and over again, and we knock heads together.

Nick Mitchell, who you mentioned earlier,.

Yes, yes, absolutely.

And he's a sharp thinker.

He's a deep thinker.

So iron sharpens iron.

That's why we're on this radio show, right?

So he sharpens me, I sharpen him, and we join together.

Same thing.

Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus.

How someone gets into Jesus is where him and I may see things differently,

in the non -essential's

liberty and in

all things charity.

Yeah, only a New York former Catholic would say, Augustine.

Well, I know both are apparently acceptable pronunciations.

The thing about apologetics ministries, and we're talking about starting your

own apologetics ministry, grassroots apologetics ministry, in my

mind, because in a sense, that's what Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is.

The way that I think someone listening, if they are interested in starting an apologetics ministry is,

there are different levels and different kinds, I guess, of ministries that could be developed.

But I think that while almost anybody who has the

resources could start an apologetics ministry, they have to be

very careful about how they themselves are involved in it.

For instance, if you have some businessman who is a new Christian,

and he's got a lot of finances, he's got a lot of contacts, he's got a lot of resources, and he says, you know something,

I want to put my time and efforts into an apologetics ministry because I'm so fascinated

by theology, I'm so on fire for my new faith.

But he must recognize that he is not the person necessarily, well, especially if he is a new Christian,

he's definitely not the person, to be the one who is the apologist.

To give you an example, as long as I've been a Christian, I've been a Christian since the 80s,

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has always been a platform for greater minds than myself

to be the ones defending and explaining and defining and teaching the faith, or

debating over it, or what have you.

I am not the Bible Answer Man, nor could I ever claim to be a Bible Answer Man.

I don't believe that I am scholarly enough or knowledgeable enough to be in that

realm.

But I know that you, for instance, though, you definitely did your homework when I saw you

debate that female professor.

What was the theme on that again?

It was a while ago.

It's Does God Exist.

Yeah, right.

You did a really good job, and you did your homework.

So that's an important thing, that if someone especially is going to be involved in the apologetic

teaching, as the Bible tells us that we're not supposed to lay hands suddenly on a novice.

People have to be very careful in handling this realm, don't they?

They have to be very cautious, and they have to realize where their gifts are in the relationship

to how this apologetics ministry would run.

And they should also be having the support of actual men in ministry,

pastors and so on, who are encouraging them in this way, don't you think?

Oh, certainly.

I think it's a two -pronged approach.

First of all, I wouldn't recommend that anybody who just decided, hey, I want to be an apologist to go and do a debate.

In fact, the way I got into that debate was I was running a Bible study at my

house on Sunday nights, and one of the girls who was coming went to that college,

C .W. Post, and she says, hey, would you be interested in doing a bit of a

debate?

So Anthony in his big mouth said, yeah, sure, I'll debate somebody, no problem.

And then she set it up, and I was like, uh -oh, now my mouth is cutting checks that my body

can't cash, I better start studying.

So I had the basics down, and I knew I could maneuver, but it

took a lot of effort.

And honestly, Chris, the debate went much better than I expected, and it was truly by the grace of

God.

I'm not a scholar.

I don't even have a degree in any kind of ministry,

organization, or anything like that.

So what I do, the second half of this is I do want to

say this.

If you're a Christian, if you are a Christian, you are an apologist, whether you know it or not.

That's right.

So every Christian...

You're just a good one or a bad one.

Exactly.

So it's definitely incumbent upon everyone to be able to give an answer for the hope that lies within them.

Now, I'm going to give you one of my secrets.

It's something that I think everybody should...

I got the best book available for apologetics, and you have to read it.

It's called the Bible.

And if you read this book, this is going to train you to see the world through

a different set of lenses.

This is going to train you to see the world through...

It's going to bring the world to life to you.

So everything begins and ends with the Scriptures.

Now, obviously, there's plenty of other resources that can help train you and fine -tune you and teach you the

arguments and the methods.

There's several different methods that you can use as an apologist.

So what I would suggest is if you feel a hook in online,

you can start at our website, apologetics .com.

We have a wealth of resources there.

In fact, there's websites

like Frank Turrick,

Cross -Examine, a lot of different guys on our website that you can learn from.

Plus our

blog is designed to do

apologists and want to

teach and train the youth to make a defense of Christianity.

We're going to get all of them together and start putting all of their stuff up on our website.

We're going to collaborate together and start having

Warner

Wallace.

Great guy.

I've come to know him through the years and going down to Cross -Examine Instructor's Academy in North Carolina.

Wasn't he involved in law enforcement or something before he became an apologist?

Oh, yeah.

He was a detective for 20 -something years and ends up becoming a cold case homicide.

That's right.

Yeah, and he's the only cold case homicide detective to solve all the cases

that he's been given.

He's solved every single one that he's been on.

He's a phenomenal guy.

One of the things that he teaches other apologists is this.

He said, we don't need another million -dollar apologist.

What we need is a million one -dollar apologist.

In other words, if we can get the basics into the hearts and minds of all of the students and train

them to be one -dollar apologists, now we have something going.

Now they can begin to build on the foundation that they have.

Everybody looks at the big guys like Ravi Zacharias and Lee Strobel and those type of guys and say, oh, I could

never be that.

You can't, but that's fine.

God didn't design you to be that.

He designed you to be you, to take your talents, gifts, and abilities and use them in

the area that he's planted you.

Again, another interview on your show, Greg Koukl,

where you're planted.

Take the information you have and affect the

people.

And we have to go to our first

break right now.

If anybody would

like to join us

on.

The air with a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if you're asking about a personal and private matter.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Don't go away, God willing, we will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round Bible conference and retreat

center nestled on the Jersey Shore.

Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.

For generations, Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars.

Each year, thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families, couples,

singles, men, women, pastors, seniors, and missionaries.

90 miles from New York City, 70 miles from Philly, and 95 miles from Wilmington,

and easily accessible, scores of notable Christian groups frequently plan conferences at

Harvey Cedars, like the Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus

Crusade, and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org.

Hcbible

.org.

Call 609 -494 -5689.

609 -494 -5689.

Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and changes lives.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio,

and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit wng .org forward slash iron sharpens

to get your World Trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free, no obligation with no credit card

required.

Visit worldnewsgroup at wng .org forward

slash iron sharpens today.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastor's Study, because everyone needs

a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns, and if you just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, our guest today is Anthony

Uvinio, co -founder of New York Apologetics, and we are discussing starting your own

grassroots apologetics ministry, and we are also announcing two upcoming New York events

featuring Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary, that we will

repeat the information for during the remainder of the program.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We have Bebe in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who has a question, Anthony.

Bebe says, having hindsight now as a more mature Christian,

what would you have done differently when you became a born -again Christian in regard to breaking the

news to your Roman Catholic family?

Are there any mistakes that you made that we can learn from?

Were you overly harsh, or were you overly timid, or were there just some kind of

problems that occurred in the manner with which you informed your family of your departure from

Roman Catholicism and entering into biblical truth?

That's a great question.

In my situation, my family was nominally Catholic,

so I had sat down with my mom and my dad, actually before I got married, and just

explained to them, you know, what was happening and why I wasn't getting married in a Roman Catholic church.

And they actually agreed with me and sensed the hypocrisy that they've experienced

in the Catholic church with regards to my grandma's funeral and just several different things.

The Catholic church had turned them off to begin with, so me

becoming wasn't as drastic as it might be in other families.

So I was able to sit down with them and explain where I was coming from and why they needed to hear the

gospel and needed to know Jesus.

And thankfully, they ended up going to the church that I was going to at the time, and still do.

Yeah, they've made professions of faith, so I'm blessed in that sense.

My brother, he's been coming to Bible study at my house for the past nine months, and now

he's bringing his son.

And although he's not saved yet, he's seeking after God.

He hasn't missed a day, so I know God's doing something in his heart.

Some friends of mine who, again, they were nominally Catholic, but

opposed betraying.

What I could have done is been a little bit more gentle in the way I handled myself with them.

And I think it's Hank Hanegraaff who says, you want to bring light, not heat to the car.

I could have done a better job in explaining why I left, what

it is,

family or whoever it

is.

If you ever

use

God's

name in

vain, you know, based on God's law, you're a sinner too, and you need a Savior.

If you could get to heaven by doing good things, why would God have to sacrifice?

For my family, it wasn't a tremendous shock because they were nominal Catholics.

You mentioned Hank Hanegraaff saying.

That you need to bring more light than heat into the conversation.

Well, now Hank Hanegraaff is bringing incense and candles and icons into the

conversation because he's converted to Eastern Orthodoxy.

When I was listening to him, it was a different story.

Right, I know.

It is a very strange turn of events in his life.

And what's stranger is that he says he really hasn't changed anything, which really bothers me when he says that.

We have another listener who is asking, I guess, somewhat of a related question about your wife.

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who says, how did your wife's family

handle her becoming a born -again believer when her family is from a Jehovah's

Witness background?

Now, is it just her mother, or is it her full family?

Well, her mom and dad are divorced, and she was living with her mom.

Her brother and her mom lived together, and her mom was going through a real difficult time.

And she was going to Roman Catholic Church at the time, and two witnesses knocked on the door

that she had at the Roman Catholic Church.

And this is my mother -in -law, not my wife.

She started going to Kingdom Hall and got indoctrinated, and she would start now telling her daughter

and her son how they needed to come.

They never did.

My wife ended up going to several different counselors.

One of them happened to be a Christian counselor and pointed her to a church.

She started going to that Christian church and got saved in a

Christian, that Jehovah's Witness, and

would talk to her mom about it.

But again, she was never able to give an

answer.

And then when she met me, and I became a Christian, and I started

studying how I was answering her mom, and now

she's dived in.

And to

them, they were going in two different directions.

I've got to introduce you and your.

Wife to a friend of mine.

She and her husband live in Staten Island.

Deborah Antignano and her husband Sal, they were Jehovah's

Witnesses.

They are from Italian Catholic backgrounds.

They became Jehovah's Witnesses, and they spent years with the Jehovah's

Witnesses.

Just before they were baptized, the Lord broke through their hearts of stone and

gave them hearts of flesh.

Praise God.

But Deborah is also a remarkably blessed and talented singer.

And she sang at one of Dr. James White's speaking engagements on Long Island.

But she has sung all over the place.

But I will have to give you her contact information because she might be of help to your wife

in communicating, even though she was in the reverse situation.

She was a former Catholic who became a Jehovah's Witness.

But still, she would have some, I'm sure, some help, too.

Yeah, and you mentioned Dr. White.

Please send him my regards and thank him because he was very, very instrumental

in discipling me from afar in listening to his debates and his online

presence.

I mean, back then when I was searching him out, searching out answers on YouTube, I came across his

website.

And although YouTube wasn't out at the time, he had lots of articles online that I would read.

And then I bought, gosh, it had to be, it seemed like a hundred videotapes of his debates and

cassettes.

And I would listen to him constantly.

So without him even knowing, I mean, he helped me give an answer to

Catholics and substantiate me leaving the Roman Catholic Church.

And in a funny sort of way, I learned theology through him.

Because as I'm listening to him and the way he's answering these people and leaving their mouth shut,

it's like, wow, you know, he's coming from this at a much different angle than most other people that I hear.

Obviously, then I came to an understanding of Reformed theology.

So just.

Tell him thank you when you talk to him.

By the way, were you ever in the audience of any of those debates that I orchestrated for over a

decade on Long Island with Dr. White?

Yes, I was at two of them at the Huntington townhouse.

One was on the authority of scripture.

With, oh,

let's see.

Well, I'll list the debates that I had on Long Island.

I had Patrick Madrid.

I've had Robertson Janus.

I've had Jerry Matitix.

I've had, let's see, Peter

Stravinskis.

I've watched all those, but I wasn't there.

Okay, I'll have to, oh,.

Father Mitch Pacwa, perhaps?

Nope, nope.

The other one was, can a non -Christian enter heaven?

Oh, yes, yes.

Yeah, and oh gosh, Dr. White did a number on that one.

Yeah, that was probably one of his more vividly obvious slam dunks,

although they all were on some level.

Yeah,.

You're right.

He was very instrumental in me understanding theology.

Same thing with Ligonier Ministries and R .C. Sproul.

That's a tremendous resource.

Boy, I mean, what a huge loss

to the body of work that so many people are blessed by.

Yes, he was a very prolific writer,.

And he's got a lot of things in print and on DVD and CD and so on.

I just want to give my friend Deborah Antignano a shout out.

Her website is matteroftheheart .net, matteroftheheart .net, and you can hear her singing,

and you can see an interview she did on CBN giving her testimony.

Let's see, we have, let's see, we

have Christian in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.

Christian says, you mentioned before that your family didn't take your conversion

to evangelical Christianity too hard because they were nominal.

I recognize that that is your experience and perhaps is the experience of many, but I have found that

even the most nominal or the least committed of Roman Catholics or even

members of other religions that have just a cursory understanding of those religions and a nominal

relationship to them, they can become just as hostile to a family member converting

as one who is deeply rooted in the religion.

Have you found that outside of your own experience to be true?

I know, yes, I know that to be true, not with my own experience.

My family handled it very well because they were so delighted to see a

raving alcoholic and somebody with a very dangerous

behavioral pattern become a Christian and put that aside and repent of it.

So there was a little bit of a different reaction because of that by my Catholic family, but

I have seen people whose Catholic families and Jewish families

react in outrage when someone becomes a actual true born

-again believer because they believe it is a betrayal of how they were raised

even if they were not raised in some kind of a very religious home.

They just view it as a betrayal nonetheless.

Absolutely, I mean this.

Is the case I would say in just about there are going to be the rare times when

people are happy that you've been delivered from alcoholism.

They're going to see that and they're going to say, wow, you didn't have

an alcohol problem and you did this.

They would say, what are you doing?

This is crazy.

You're joining the cult or something like that.

I think, again, I'd like to give a theological answer.

There's only two seeds in this world, two offspring.

You're either the seed of the woman or the seed of the serpent, and that battle is going to rage on until the end of time, until he

comes back, and the seed of the serpent gets upset when someone is adopted into the

family of God and born of his spirit.

So that's going to be the naturally, again, the natural reaction to

things.

Others cannot know them.

You know, in the flesh, no one is going to submit to God's law.

They just don't want it.

It repulses them.

When someone becomes a Christian, we should actually expect that this is going to be the natural reaction, and that's why at that

point it's so important that we be able to give them answers for why we believe what

they believe, and use the law effectively to show them that they're...

Yes, and we have to go to our midway break.

It's a longer than normal break.

It's 12 minutes, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a 12 -minute break

so they can air their own public service announcements and other things.

So please be patient as we take this elongated break.

Take this time to write your questions for Anthony Eugenio.

Also take this time to write down the information that our advertisers provide so that you can

properly patronize them and not only help them, but in doing so, when

you help our advertisers remain in business or remain in existence, you are going to help Iron

Sharpens Iron remain in existence since they support us with their dollars, their advertising dollars.

So please patronize our advertisers as much as you can, and don't go away.

We'll be right back.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

We'll be right back, God willing, with Anthony Eugenio.

Tired of box store Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the has vanished from Long Island?

Well, there's good news.

Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience

featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631

-929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc

.us.

That's wrbc .us.

Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes Solid Rock Remodeling to our family of sponsors.

Serving South Central Pennsylvania, Solid Rock Remodeling is focused on discovering,

understanding, and exceeding your expectations.

They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results.

Solid Rock Remodeling offers a full range of home renovations, including kitchen and bath

remodeling, decks, porches, windows and doors, roof and siding, and

more.

For a clear, detailed professional estimate, call this trustworthy team of problem solvers

who provide superior results that stand the test of time.

Call Solid Rock Remodeling at 717 -697 -1981.

717 -697 -1981 or visit

solidrockremodeling .com.

That's solidrockremodeling .com.

Solid Rock Remodeling, bringing new life to your home.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528

-5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV

program entitled, Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org, that's providencebaptistchurchma .org,

or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

advertisers.

I know you all use batteries every day, so I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively

use BatteryDepot .com for all your battery needs.

At BatteryDepot .com, they're changing the status quo, they're flipping the script, they're sticking

it to the man.

In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory

of top -of -the -line batteries that are uniformly new, dependable, and affordable.

Ordering from BatteryDepot .com ensures you'll always get fresh, out -of -the -box batteries you

can count on to work properly at competitive prices.

Whether you need batteries for cordless phones, cell phones, radios, PCs,

laptops, tablets, baby monitors, hearing aids, smoke detectors, credit card

readers, digital cameras, electronic cigarettes, GPSs, MP3 players,

watches, or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries, go to BatteryDepot

.com.

Next day shipping available.

All products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six -month warranties.

Call 866 -403 -3768.

That's 866 -403 -3768.

Or go to BatteryDepot .com.

That's BatteryDepot .com.

Chef Exclusive Catering is in South Central Pennsylvania.

Chef Exclusive's goal is to provide a dining experience that is sure to please any palate.

Chef Damian White of Chef Exclusive is a graduate of the renowned Johnson and Wales University with a degree in

Culinary Arts and Applied Science.

Chef Exclusive Catering's event center is newly designed with elegance and style and is available for

small office gatherings, bridal showers, engagement parties, and rehearsal dinners.

Critics and guests alike acknowledge Chef Exclusive's commitment to exceeding even the highest

expectations.

I know of their quality firsthand since Chef Exclusive catered my most recent Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

Pastor's Luncheon.

For details call 717 -388 -3000.

That's 717 -388 -3000.

Or visit Chefexclusive .com.

That's Chefexclusive .com.

Thriving Financial is not your typical financial.

Services provider.

As a membership organization, we help Christians be wise with money and live generously every day.

And for the fourth year in a row, we were named one of the world's most ethical companies by the Ethisphere

Institute, a leading international think tank dedicated to the creation, advancement, and sharing of best

practices in business ethics.

Contact me, Mike Gallagher, Financial Consultant

at 717 -254 -6433.

Again, 717 -254 -6433 to learn more about.

The Thriving

Difference.

Faith, finances, and generosity.

That's the Thriving Story.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com, and see what priceless literary gems from the past

or present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting.

You to tune into A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 pm

Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www

.wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastor's Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastor's Study, because everyone needs

a pastor.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them

affordable to everyone.

Since 1987, the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available Christian books

and Bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available, because frankly, much of what

is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and

otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is CVBBS .com.

Browse the pages at ease.

Shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you, the church,

and to Christ.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CVBBS .com.

That's CVBBS .com.

Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And you can call CVBBS .com at their toll -free number, 800 -656

-0231, 800 -656 -0231.

You can call that line Monday through Friday, 10 a .m. to 4 .30 p .m. most days,

Eastern Time.

Make sure you call Eastern Time if you want to catch them.

And there is no voicemail, so if you don't get them, you can order online any day,

24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, at CVBBS .com, CVBBS

.com.

If you mention Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, you will receive, absolutely free of

charge, if you order $50 or more worth of merchandise, the book Taken Up to Heaven by

Derek Thomas.

And you will also get free shipping on the entire purchase of $50 or more if you mention

Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And I believe that the only way that you can mention Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio if you're ordering online

is that you have to, when you're ordering it, put that in the details of

the shipping.

I think that's the only way you can mention Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by doing that on their website.

Hopefully, they'll make it a lot easier for you to do that when you're ordering online.

But that's for another day and another time for me to get that accomplished there.

Also, I have just a few more very important announcements to make in regard to upcoming events.

First of all, as we have mentioned before, Dr. Tony Costa, who is the

Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary

in Canada, he is going to be preaching at the Hope Reformed Baptist Church in

Medford, Long Island on July 1st at their morning worship

service.

And if you want more details about that, you can go to hopereformedli .net.

And LI stands for Long Island.

Hopereformedli .net.

You can also call 631 -696 -5711.

And just about a week later on Friday the 6th of July

at 630 p .m., Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, in cooperation with New

Covenant Church of New York City, are going to be hosting an evening of lectures by

Dr. Tony Costa.

And the lectures include defending the Christian

faith in the postmodern world and also the dangers of cultural

Marxism in society and the church.

That's going to be Friday, July 6th, starting at 630 p .m.

And the event is actually going to be held at the First Baptist Church of Manhattan on the

Upper West Side of Manhattan on the corner of 79th Street and Broadway.

And if you'd like more information, you can email me at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And we are also looking for local pastors who are interested in having lunch with

Dr. Costa that afternoon for an informal gathering of fellowship

and lunch and also for Dr. Costa to give some counsel about some very

controversial and timely things going on in the church and in society that he can,

I'm sure, be of great help to provide information, updated

details and counsel.

So that's chrisarnson at gmail .com and put Tony Costa event in the subject line

and I'd be more than happy to help you out.

Then coming up after that in August,

which is just around the corner as well, Fellowship Conference New England is being held at the Deering Center

Community Church in Portland, Maine.

And the speakers at this event include Pastor Tim Conway of

Grace Community Church in San Antonio, Texas.

My dear friend Pastor Mac Tomlinson, who is an author, a book editor and Bible publisher and pastor of

Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas.

Pastor Jesse Barrington, who's going to be my guest coming up on

Tuesday June 26th.

Pastor Jesse Barrington is the pastor of Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas, which is actually the sister

church of Grace Life Church in Lake City, Florida, whose radio station, Grace Life Radio, airs Iron Trumpets Iron

Radio every day Monday through Friday in a rerun form.

They air it twice a day actually, in both morning and evening drive.

My friend Pastor Nate Pickowitz, who's also an author and pastor of Harvest Bible Church

in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire, and he's going to be my guest, God willing, on Thursday the 28th

of June.

So all these men will be speaking at the Fellowship Conference New England.

For more details go to fellowshipconferencenewengland .com fellowshipconferencenewengland

.com.

Please tell the folks there that you heard about the event from Chris Arns and Iron Trumpets Iron Radio.

Then in November, from the 9th through the 10th, the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is having their

annual Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania.

The speakers include David Garner, Ray Ortland, Richard Phillips, Timothy Gibson, and

Carlton Winn.

The theme is The Glory of the Cross.

If you'd like to register, go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet .org, click on events, and then

click on Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology.

That's November 9th through the 10th in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania.

Please tell the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals that you heard about this event from Chris Arns and Iron Trumpets

Iron Radio.

Then we have an event that has become one of my very favorite events of all time

that I attend and have an Iron Trumpets Iron exhibitors booth there.

It is the G3 Conference.

If you've never been to a G3 conference, you've got to make every effort to be there, especially since you have plenty of advance

notice now.

It is being held from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th at the Georgia International

Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta.

The theme is The Mission of God, A Biblical Understanding of Missions.

The roster that they have, it's always a very long and impressive roster.

Some of the speakers are Paul Washer, John Piper, David Platt, Stephen Lawson, Vody Baucom,

Mark Dever, Conrad M. Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson of John MacArthur's Grace to You Ministries,

Josh Bice, who is the founder of the G3 Conference.

By the way, that stands for Grace, Gospel, and Glory, in case you're wondering.

Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, Anthony Mathenia, who happens to be Paul

Washer's pastor and a really talented speaker, and Stephen

Nichols, who's the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries,

and more.

So if you'd like to register for this event, go to g3conference .com, g3conference

.com, and not only can you register there as a attender,

being in the audience, you can do the same thing that I'm doing.

You can man your own exhibitor's booth at the G3 Conference.

They're expecting over 4 ,000 people, so it's money well spent.

And I hope that you can get a booth and get one near to me to promote

either your business or your church or your parachurch ministry, whatever it is that you do that you believe

serves the body of Christ.

Go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and register for an exhibitor's booth as well.

Last but not least, it's my least favorite of the part of the program where I have to beg

you for money.

I hate doing it, but it needs to be done if we are to remain on the air.

If you love the show, you listen to it every day, you share the MP3s, the free MP3s with others,

you are edified greatly by the guests and topics that we discuss, which very often are not

heard anywhere else in the media.

Well, then please consider donating to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I know that since we average about 35 ,000 people downloading our show every

month, there's a lot of people out there who seem to love the show, but I would hope that

eventually someday there would be an equal number of people donating.

And we really need your support.

Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card.

If you prefer the old -fashioned way via snail mail, you will see an address there when you click

support, ironsharpensironradio .com, where you can mail a check made payable to ironsharpensironradio

.com.

Please give as much as you can and as often as you can with this caveat, never siphon money away from the church where you

are a member.

In other words, don't take money out of the regular amount that you are accustomed to giving to your church in order to give to Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

And never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Those two things are commands of God, providing for your church and home.

Providing for my show is not a command of God, but it is something that you need to do if you want us to remain on the air.

So if you're financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey the two commands of providing for church and

home, please provide for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by going to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click,

click to donate now.

By the way, if you are not a member of a Bible -believing church and need help finding one, I can help you.

I've helped many people find churches all over the world.

I have lists of Bible -believing churches all over the globe.

So please email me at chrisorensen at gmail .com if you're having trouble finding a church.

And if you would like to advertise with us, whether it's your church, your parachurch ministry, your business, your professional practice,

your special event, send me an email to chrisorensen at gmail .com.

Chrisorensen at gmail .com.

And as long as whatever it is you are advertising is compatible with the theology we express here, we would love

to help you launch the ad campaign because we truly do need your advertising dollars.

Chrisorensen at gmail .com with advertising in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send a question to Anthony Uvinio, the founder, co -founder

of New York Apologetics on starting your own grassroots apologetics ministry.

That's chrisorensen at gmail .com.

And we do have an anonymous listener and she says, Hi Chris, I

am really glad to learn of your guest's website.

Is there info there to address the Hebrew Roots movement?

I have friends who were former Pentecostals and Assemblies of God and

Nazarene Methodist members who have switched to this.

I fear for their salvation now.

One woman is in hospice.

Could you ask if there are any things your guest might know to say to help her snap out of this before it's too

late?

And also could you ask regarding ecumenical groups, what are the true essentials

when there are Catholics involved who want to teach?

Is there a resource I can go to for this that spells out the essentials versus the non

-essentials?

I do already plan to use your guest's website soon now that I know of it.

Well thank you anonymous.

I have just started hearing about the Hebrew Roots movement and

since I've had several people ask me about it, I think that that's a providential thing that God is

using to tell me I have to find somebody who's an expert on it and do a show on it because I know nothing about it.

Do you know.

Anything about the Hebrew Roots movement, Anthony?

Sure, yes.

Actually, not directly on our website, but if you do go to our website, you can click over to Dr.

White's website, AOMIN .org.

He's had several discussions with Hebrew Roots people.

Is it the Hebrew Roots?

Is that the same as the Black Israelites?

Oh no, that's what I was thinking, you're right.

Because I don't know.

If they're the same thing.

They might be, I just don't know.

They're similar, but they're not the.

Same.

They're similar, but they're not the same.

We don't have anything up specifically on our website with regards to that, but on Facebook there is a Hebrew Roots

group that you can join.

Go in there and...

You don't mean to join the cult?

No, no, no, I'm joking.

While you're at it, you could join the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons if you want.

No, you would join that group and they will give you information with regards to it.

But I tell you what, since I know that you're looking for that type of information, I will get several

articles and videos and I will make a special blog post with that information on it and create.

A resource.

And why don't you give her...

I forget, are you giving your email address out?

Sure,.

It's anthony at newyorkapologetics .com.

And you spell out the New York, right?

It's not abbreviated.

Right, N -E -W -Y -O -R -K -A -P -O -L -O -G -E -T -I -C -S.

If she has specific questions, she can send them to me, I'll do my best to answer them, and then I'll put up a blog post.

With all information.

Great.

That's anthony at newyorkapologetics .com.

Right.

And you.

Spell out New York in two words.

Yes, yes, no space.

Also, I wanted to announce August 11th at Word of Truth Church, Pastor Bruce Bennett is

going to be debating Matthew Luke Broderick on Mary, Sinless Perpetual Virgin or Sinner Saved by

Grace.

So if she wants to come out to that and be a part of that, that starts at 6 30 p .m.

Again, it's August 11, 2018.

She can go on, again, Facebook.

She can type in Bruce Bennett and pull up his Facebook page and...

Or buying because we're going to be putting up flyers because that's coming up in a month or two.

Now, one of the things that she said that would basically be universal, it doesn't have

to be about the Hebrew Roots movement, she says, let's see,

is there any things your guests might know to help this woman who's involved in Hebrew Roots

snap out of this before it's too late?

Well, obviously, Anthony, as you know, we are both believers in the doctrines of sovereign grace, so

we can only plant and water seeds and pray that God gives an increase.

We can't... nobody, no human can snap somebody out of anything before they die.

But do you have any suggestions about a cult member in general?

My thought immediately is how no one can deserve heaven by what they do and that

they have to trust in Christ alone and rest in his sacrifice only as their only hope of eternal life,

but anything you have to add to that?

Yeah, I mean, tell anybody who's, you know, you're

going to stand before God and you're going to have to give and you've done

enough up until this point in your life to escape the flames of hell.

Are you good enough based on the Ten Commandments to get in?

And the answer is no.

Now, one of the things that

the cross and the resurrection are central to

Christianity, beautiful picture of a thief on the left and a thief on

the right.

One thief looks at Jesus and says, hey, you're God, get us down from here.

Let's go.

What are we doing?

Stop fooling around.

The other thief recognizes...

That was the New York translation.

The AUV.

You don't have the AUV.

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

At the right time, at the wrong time, you did this to me.

So the other thief on the cross, he recognizes that he's a sinner.

Oh yeah, yeah.

Okay, I'm sorry.

He recognizes that he's a sinner and he recognizes that he's on that cross because.

He broke the law.

This is one of the thieves there.

One of the thieves, right.

And he looks to Jesus and he says, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

He acknowledged Jesus as Lord.

He says, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

And Jesus says, today you will be with me in paradise.

The thief repented, looked to Jesus as his savior, and he was saved.

Feet were nailed to the post.

He was not able to do any works, yet he exercised faith in Christ and he was saved.

And that's exactly what I would tell to this woman who's on her deathbed, not able to do anything good,

meritorious in God's sight.

You're going to stand before God and have to give an account of your life.

You'll be judged based on that.

You need a savior.

Turn to Jesus, repent, and trust in him for your salvation.

And the evidence that this was quite a miraculous occurrence is that the thief

that asked Christ to remember him was also initially mocking Christ.

People have seen an abbreviated or wrong version in some movies

and TV specials because they act as if the one thief was always the nice and kind and

compassionate thief and the other was the evil and wicked.

They were both mocking Christ.

And then eventually, obviously, the Lord himself changed that thief's heart because not only did he turn to

Christ, he also rebuked the other thief.

Yes, excellent point.

And as far as could you ask your guest regarding ecumenical groups, what are the true

essentials when there are Catholics involved who want to teach?

I personally would never, well I don't know if I would never, well let me put it this way, I

would never be a member of a group or organization that had a Roman Catholic teaching, but I

might visit just so I can have my input later at some point, even when I'm mingling

around with people.

But to be a member of an organization where I am under the teaching of a Roman Catholic, I wouldn't do it.

But if you could respond to the way you would like to respond.

Sure, no, like you Chris, it would be very difficult for me to co -labor with a Roman Catholic when

we disagree on the gospel.

Now, we're united on the fact that Jesus is God, he's deity, he's God in the flesh, we're

united on the trinity, we're united on the fact that there's a heaven and a hell and a judgment.

What we're not united on is how someone gets saved.

We're not united on salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

When some form of works,

catechism says, then you're not, you do not hold to,

not according to works.

Now, works are the natural byproduct of true faith in Christ.

True works would follow.

The same way when you light a candle, there's going to be light and heat that comes from that candle.

If no light and no heat comes from that candle, you know that there's not a flame there.

So those works point to the evidence that you're saved.

They're not the base, and from what I understand Roman Catholic theology,.

To get you to heaven.

That is a required belief according to the Council of Trent, and that same council, that 16th

century council, which is still officially binding, no matter what Pope

Francis may say, and what modern Catholics may say, we are

anathematized, accursed to hell, if we believe that we are saved by grace alone, through faith

alone, in Christ alone, apart from works, we are anathematized.

In fact, it's funny that you said that.

That's.

Canon 9 of the Trent, the Canon of Trent, and what I'm trying

to do right now is set up a debate between Tony Costa and Tim Staples.

The Catholic guy wanted to call the by faith alone, have Tony

affirm, and Tim Staples deny, but I said, no, let's do Canon 9 of the Council of Trent,

because Canon 9 says, if anyone says you're justified by faith alone, apart from your works, let him be anathema.

I said, you have Tim Staples affirm, and we'll have Tony Costa deny, and now he's trying to worm his way

out of that, because he knows he's going to have to bear the.

Burden of proof of that, and he's not going to be able to do it.

Right, so you've got to be very careful about that, because that is the Catholic answers approach, where

they want the Protestant to defend something that can

be easily misunderstood by other evangelicals, and they don't want to

defend something that on its surface even looks like a horrifying or

negative thing to believe in.

You've got to be very careful with that, and I would put the burden on them to defend

something.

Yeah, listen, this is New York apologetics.

We're not letting them.

Get away with it.

They're not going to sneak that one by me, don't worry.

Yeah, in fact,.

Even though I enjoyed being at the debate that James White had in

Georgia with the President, I enjoyed being there,

but they purposely insisted on Dr. White defending

a belief that is not universally agreed upon by evangelicals.

I believe it was whether or not a true Christian could lose salvation, and even though we as Calvinists affirm that

if you are truly born again, you cannot, there are a lot of evangelicals who

really play to the accusations of Rome that if

you believe in this, that means you believe you could live like the devil your whole life and still go to heaven, which is something that

obviously we who are Reformed reject wholeheartedly.

Yes.

But anyway, it is annoying that Catholics very often today, the apologists,

don't want to defend things that have controversial

titles to them, even though they know that their church believes and teaches those things.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, no, that's why I'm holding his feet to the fire.

By the way, the two guys who debated James White, the debate that I were at first

was Gary Machuda.

Oh, yeah, that was on the Apocrypha.

Yes, and the next one was Bill Rutledge.

So those were the two guys, and he did.

A...

Bill Rutland, I think his name was.

Rutland, right, that's right, Bill Rutland, right.

And going back to our guest's question about

ecumenism, even though we can have friendships and be

involved in different kinds of activities with Catholics and others who deny our gospel, the biblical

gospel, as far as ecumenism, wouldn't you agree we cannot have ecumenism with

a Catholic that is faithful to what Rome actually stands for on the gospel?

Absolutely, and this was an issue, I think, two years ago.

I forget what the guy's name was, but he's part of the New Apostolic Reformation.

He rented out the LA Stadium, and he had Catholics up on the podium with him, and he

was kissing their feet, saying that they're brothers in Christ with us.

And when you compromise on the gospel and add works to it, or add anything

but faith alone to the gospel, now you're in a completely different realm, and we

cannot co -labor with them.

We cannot affirm their salvation because of that.

I mean, it's not biblical.

Right, James White is a very strong

opponent, to put it mildly, of abortion, as any Christian with a heart beating with the Holy

Spirit should be, very adamantly opposed to abortion.

But years ago, he had to leave a pro -life group,

voluntarily that is, because they said to him that he could not evangelize the Roman Catholics involved

in the group, nor could he correct them or lovingly rebuke them when they were praying to Mary or praying

on rosary beads.

So, I mean, this is something that we have to be very careful about, and it's because of the fact that we love God and even love

our Catholic friends that we would not want to remain silent on these things.

And so, it's a very important matter, and

it's unfortunately becoming more and more a relic

or an antiquated idea of the past that would say that we cannot have ecumenical

relations with Roman Catholics, when it's so disturbing to see even some of the most famous of

conservative evangelicals.

I'm not saying that Rick Warren is among the most conservative evangelicals, but he is considered an

evangelical, and he's a very popular author and speaker amongst evangelicals, and he calls Pope

Francis his Pope.

Oh gosh.

So, I mean, this is just insane.

But we are running out of time.

This is our last commercial break.

If you'd like to join us on the air, please do it now or forever.

Hold your peace.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA,

and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Anthony Uvino of New York Apologetics.

Hi, I'm Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World

Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try World at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book,

Relationship Between Church and State.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting.

I gain insight from the analysis, and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio,

and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit wmg .org forward slash iron sharpens

to get your World trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free, no obligation with no credit card

required.

Visit World News Group at wmg .org forward

slash iron sharpens today.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools,.

Middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ

staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the

lifelong journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in

need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385

-8333 that's 631 -385

-8333 or visit liyfc .org

that's liyfc .org.

Charles.

Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia,.

For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528

-5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV

program entitled, Resting in Grace.

You can find us at ProvidenceBaptistChurchMA .org, that's ProvidenceBaptistChurchMA .org,

or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

You, and we invite you to visit the Pastors Study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern time for a visit to the Pastors Study, because everyone needs

a pastor.

And please consider calling a visit to the Pastors Study.

My dear friend Bill Shishko is the host of that weekly radio program heard

in the New York Tri -State area, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and even parts of Pennsylvania,

Massachusetts, and Rhode Island at 540 a .m. on the dial every Saturday 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern time.

And you could also hear them anywhere in the world on live streaming at www

.wlie540am .com.

If you call into the program, please tell Bill Shishko, my dear friend, that you heard about his show from

Chris Arnzen and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

We are now back with Anthony Uvino, the co -founder of New York

Apologetics.

We are discussing starting your own grassroots apologetics ministry.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, please do it now or forever hold your peace, because we're almost out of

time.

That's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA,

and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

We have a listener, Harrison in

Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

Harrison says, while the contrast is a much more stark

situation when you have Roman Catholics being compared with evangelical

Bible -believing Christians, the situation is obviously more difficult when you are

trying to maintain love and fellowship with those brothers in Christ within

evangelicalism that are not within your theological circles, but at the same time you don't

want to either condone their error or you don't want to be overly harsh and

unloving about it.

Can you have any suggestions you might.

Give on a balanced way to approach this?

Sure.

In fact, I would point to the relationship between James White and Michael Brown.

These are two guys who are at the top of their game.

They're both scholars.

They love each other.

They're committed Christians.

Obviously, James White holds to Reformed theology.

Michael Brown is an Arminian.

And these guys get along together.

They work together.

They co -labor together.

And they debate one another, because they understand that these things, the things of God, are of utmost importance.

Yeah, they don't gloss over the differences.

No, no, definitely not.

And the thing I love about New York Apologetics, it's almost the same thing with me and Nick.

We're the James White, Mike Brown of New York, only we're 100 pounds heavier and 100 IQ points lighter.

You know, we can, and what we have to remember is that the main thing is the main thing.

The main thing is the Gospel.

Now, are those other matters important?

Absolutely.

I would die on that hill, okay?

However, what's of central importance is Jesus Christ, Him crucified,

Him rising from the dead, okay?

And you being judged before God, you need to know the Gospel.

I don't want to say everything else is peripheral, because it's not.

Those are important matters.

But we get along together.

In fact, the Scripture says, this is how they'll know that you're my disciples, that you love one another.

And love is not, you know, the type of thing that you see in these romantic comedies.

Love is a decision to put someone else before yourself and accept them for who they are.

My brother Nick, he's a brother in Christ.

Mike Brown, he's a brother in Christ.

James White, brother in Christ.

We're co -laboring for the sake of the Gospel, and that's what's...

And if I could, I'd just like to give, you know, some people a word of encouragement about starting

a grassroots apologetics organization.

I'm not a scholar, as you can tell by the way I speak.

I'm from New York.

There's nothing, you know, highfalutin about me, assuming where I'm planted.

God planted me on Long Island.

He surrounded me with certain people who are kind of like me, so I'm able to witness to them

and get through to them.

There's also another woman you may have heard of.

Her name is Natasha Crane, and she was just, you know, a regular mom.

She had two kids.

She was wondering, how am I going to teach my kids about God?

What about the question...

Her children started asking her deep questions about God.

So she got online.

She started equipping herself with the information to answer her children.

She started a blog called ChristianMomThoughts .com.

She ends up writing a book talking with your kids about God across the country.

So here's a mom who took, you know,

something

called Grassroots Apologetics for

Parents.

So if

you're a

parent,

Apologetics

Network, Colorado

Apologetics Network, Florida Apologetics Network, he's got all of those set up for each state so that people

can get on, join the group, and link up with like -minded people who are

looking to defend the Christian faith.

They set up lunches.

They set up meetings

and see how they can make a difference in their communities and in their families.

So I would encourage anyone who has an interest in this to get online.

Get on Facebook.

If you don't like Facebook, I'll

hook you up.

I'll hook you up on our

blog for some more exposure.

Well, while you're at it, why don't you put a link to Iron Sharp and Zion Radio on your website?

I really thought we did have that.

Maybe you do.

I was kind of just joking, but maybe you do.

I think we did.

That just goes to show you we'll put anybody up there.

I'm kidding.

You know I'm kidding with you.

Yes, well, I mean, there is some truth behind that.

But anyway, one thing that I'm hoping and I'm pretty certain you would agree

with me though, while you're giving this counsel that everybody and anybody who has

a passion for truth and resources to do it, even though they might not have a lot of resources, they

might not be rich or even upper middle class, but in this day and age, it's a lot easier

with the internet to do things and a lot more affordable and so on.

But I'm sure you would agree with me that people have to be

extremely careful when they

begin to speak about other people's beliefs.

There seems to be an attitude amongst many evangelicals and fundamentalists

that as long as somebody is from what may be considered by the majority of Christians historically

as a false religion, there seems to be some kind of idea that they have a license

therefore to not be meticulously careful and

truthful when speaking about those groups.

They seem to think that sloppiness in their mockery of other people of different

beliefs is okay because those people are teaching a lie.

But the thing is, bearing false witness against your neighbor, which is one of the

prohibitions in the Ten Commandments, that is true even if you are saying something untruthful about

an evil person.

Bearing false witness against your neighbor is not just meant that you can't say anything untruthful about wonderful

people or your brothers in Christ.

It's looking at anybody.

As I have said in the past, if you are a witness to a murder

and you're in a court testifying on behalf of the prosecution and you know that the person on

trial committed one murder because you saw the murder with your own eyes,

you were present, you were an eyewitness, it is still bearing false witness if you say you saw him commit two

murders.

Even though this person is an evil person, you're not supposed to, God forbids us

slandering.

So we have to be very careful.

We can't be sloppy when we're approaching an apologetics ministry,

forming one.

Yeah, again, I wouldn't say starting a blog would be an apologetics

ministry per se, but here are two things I would say.

Number one, speak with your pastor.

Get his input on it, get his blessing to do it, be

mentored by him.

In addition to your pastor, get a mentor.

Find somebody who is doing apologetics, who is obviously an Orthodox Christian, and ask

them to help you.

Again, if you go to our website and you go up on the top button, there's resources.

On those resources, it'll direct you to people who are experts in apologetics, who do this for a living.

Guys like Greg Cockel, James White, R .C. Sproul, anything Greg Bonson, grab a

hold of it.

I even have stuff from Frank Turek up there.

These are guys who do this on a day -in, day -out basis.

You want to learn from them first.

Before you start teaching people arguments or giving people answers for the hope that

lies within you, you need to learn them yourself.

Before you become a leader, you have to become a good follower.

I would say you sit under one of these mentors.

Greg Cockel is essential listening for me.

His podcast, his website is str .org.

I would suggest that you listen to that podcast on a regular basis.

He's got guys, Tim Barnett, Alan Shleeman, Amy Hall.

These people are constantly putting up information on his website and on their blog that is

tremendous.

It's excellent, excellent information.

I would start with those guys, listen to them, learn, and then if

it's the desire of your heart to share this

apologetics group to stop the arguments, I'm not saying go do a

public debate.

I'm not saying start putting antagonistic material up to start poking and prodding at people.

What I'm suggesting is you get a good foundation, a good basis of knowledge, and then begin to

share your faith.

It's not so much about winning arguments as it is about winning souls.

The soul is the goal.

We're looking to get people to understand, repent of their sins, and

trust.

To do that, as

Mormons, it's essential that you have a good foundation.

A great guy to listen to for

witnessing to Mormons

is Jeff Durbin.

He's more than in .com.

You will find.

All...

Yeah, I've got to get him on the program.

I tried once before your last event that featured him and I think he had to back out due to family

situation, right?

Yeah, his daughter got hurt and.

They rescheduled her graduation date from the military so he had to actually cancel on

us and.

Go see his daughter.

You believe that?

He left us.

By the way, I want to thank you, by the way, for inviting me to be the moderator at the

Frank Turek debate when he debated an atheist at Stony Brook University.

I want to thank you very much for that.

That was very kind of you.

Oh, no, no.

It was my pleasure.

Again, think about it.

When I was going to those debates, that's actually when I first met you.

You didn't know me then, but I always recognized you and I'd listen to you moderate those debates.

I'm like, if there's anybody who's going to be our moderator, it would be you.

So thank you for accepting.

Hey, my pleasure.

And we are out of time.

And by the way, Dr. Tony Costa must have been listening to our show today because he emailed me

and said he would like to discuss this Monday on my show the Hebrew Roots Movement.

Oh, terrific.

So that's what we're going to do this Monday.

Mark your calendars for this Monday, 4 to 6 p .m. Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of

Apologetics in Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary, who will be discussing the Hebrew Roots Movement.

So anonymous listener who wrote the question about Hebrew roots that we could not answer, well, you'll find

out your information on Monday.

And why don't you write down a few questions for Dr. Costa on that.

Now I want to make sure that you have three minutes of uninterrupted time to

summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

I erroneously said we were out of time and I looked at the clock.

I looked at a clock that had stopped.

But anyway, if you could.

Yeah, sure.

Look, New York Apologetics as an organization was started by two guys didn't have seminary degrees

and still don't.

I don't think that's our field.

I don't think that's the people we're meant to reach.

There are plenty of other guys who are capable of doing that.

But wherever you're at, just start to dig in.

If you have a heart for this or you want to explore this, do some studying, do some research, get a mentor

and get moving.

Again, we don't need another million dollar apologist.

We need a million one dollar apologist.

Get involved in local apologetics group in your area.

Even look us up online.

Look up New York Apologetics Network.

What we're doing on Long Island is we're getting together guys, Nick and Josh, Vic and Rodney from Abundant Life,

me and the guys from Hope Reform Baptist.

We have Pastor Ryan Golan from Centerpoint Church.

You know Eli Ayala from Massapequa Reformed.

We even have Jamal Bernard from Christian Cultural Center in Brooklyn.

We got Bruce Bennett from Word of Truth Church.

We have Tim Fox who's a Biola graduate.

All these guys are going to come on board into this network and start pooling our resources together so that we can get

this information into local churches.

We have to start educating our youth who are getting attacked in the cultural arena

and they're not able to give an answer.

Listen, when you send your kid to a public school, if you don't teach your children, someone else will.

The public schools are going to feed them stuff that is anti -Christian.

If we don't provide information in their minds and hearts to begin with, they're going to

fall prey to the society.

So we really have to put, especially now when you see things are heating up in our environment, they're

getting to

do what we do with it.

We have to take

a proactive stance.

Hope that lies

will get demolished

in the world.

If there's anything that needs to be known,

he knows it in him.

So we begin with him and that's why I told you that the how to

be an apologist is in the scriptures themselves.

Amen.

And although it.

Would be a great idea to have a million one dollar.

Apologists, we don't want any three dollar.

Apologists.

I was expecting me to say something like, not you, you're polished.

I'm not.

And I'm assuming that you would agree with me that an excellent way for a person to start a

grassroots apologetics ministry, I'm sure that you would agree that the way that I,

just by providence, fell into this myself is that I began inviting a very

gifted person like Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries out to Long Island to conduct

debates and conferences.

And you, anybody could do that.

You could have your pastors give their approval of a

certain apologist that you know that's well read and gifted and talented and experienced and seasoned and invite them to your

church.

And this can start something that could be an enormous blessing that has an impact for decades and decades to come.

Chris, do you realize that I'm part of the fruit.

Of what you did on Long Island years and years and years ago?

Oh, is that why people call you a fruit?

Too apologetic.

Seriously, think about it.

You bringing James White here and making that information available to me and other people that I know, that

helped fuel the fire that I had to learn how to defend my faith.

So yeah, I think that's a great idea.

You know, invite a local apologist in, not a local, invite a top apologist

into your community to have a couple of talks.

You can hold a little conference.

It's not that difficult.

And if you need information on that, again, you can email me, anthony at newyorkapologetics .com.

Send me your phone number.

We can chat on the phone.

I'll help you in any way I can.

But what we have to do is get this information out there.

If you do that in your community, guaranteed, there's going to be a couple hundred people who come and hear things that they've never

heard before.

And we are now.

Out of time, brother.

I just want to make sure that hopereformedli .net is out there.

That's Hope Reformed Baptist Church's website, hopereformedli .net.

That's for the Tony Costa speaking engagement on Sunday, July 1st on Long Island at the Hope Reformed

Baptist Church of Medford, New York.

Don't forget to email me if you want more information about Dr. Costa's New York City speaking engagement.

It's being held at the First Baptist Church of Manhattan in the Upper West Side of Manhattan, but it's being

sponsored by Iron Sherpins Iron Radio and the New Covenant Church of New York City.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

I want to thank everybody who listened today.

I want to thank especially those who wrote in questions.

And of course, I want to really thank you, Anthony, for being my guest today.

I look forward to many returns to Iron Sherpins Iron Radio by you.

I also thank you from the depths of my heart once again for your generous support financially of Iron Sherpins Iron Radio.

I want everybody to have a blessed and safe and joyful weekend and Lord's Day.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.