February 7, 2017 Show with Jim Newheiser on “Help! My Anger Is Out of Control!” AND “Help! Someone I Love Has Been Abused!”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the

rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you a happy Tuesday on this seventh day of

February 2017, and for those of you who have not yet gotten used to the

fact that I am including Lake City, Florida in my opening announcements, that's because as of

yesterday we have joined the lineup of Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in

Lake City, Florida, and those fine folks, Justin and Brandon Ellickson, who

operate that station, have added me in a pre -recorded version

to the morning drive time slot, 8 to 10 a .m., which anybody in radio knows is the

most prime piece of real estate anywhere on the day part

calendar on radio, and we are also aired every day 8 to 10 p

.m. in a pre -recorded version, so we thank those fine folks at Grace

Life Radio for including us in their lineup, and we hope that the Lord bears much fruit from

this new partnership there in Lake City, Florida and beyond, because they also

live stream as well, so people also hear this program globally over their

website, which is GraceLifeRadio .com, GraceLifeRadio .com,

so if you miss Iron Sharpens Iron's live program, you could hear it

later that same night.

It's actually going to be the program that was live the day prior, typically anyway,

so 8 to 10 p .m. if you miss us live, and that's eastern time, and then of

course, as I said earlier, the morning drive slot 8 to 10 a .m. eastern time every day,

Monday through Friday.

Well, today we have returning to our program Jim Neuheiser.

He's director of the Christian Counseling Program at Reform Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North

Carolina.

He is the executive director of IBCD, which stands for Institute for Biblical Counseling and

Discipleship, and ACBC, Association of Certified Biblical

Counselors, and he's a fellow and board member of that organization, and he's going to be discussing

two books that he's written, or should I say booklets?

Help, My Anger is Out of Control.

That's the first hour we're going to be addressing that.

Second hour, we're going to be addressing Help, Someone I Love Has Been Abused, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you

back to Iron Sharpens Iron, Jim Neuheiser.

Thank you. Delighted to be with you today.

And if you could, Jim, just let our listeners know, especially because the fact that we,

seems from the emails we are getting, we are getting new listeners to Iron Sharpens Iron every week at

least, and of course, we certainly have a whole new group of listeners in

Florida, now that we have been added to the Grace Life radio lineup.

Tell our listeners something about your personal religious upbringing, if any, how the

Lord sovereignly drew you to himself and gave you the gift of eternal life.

Sure.

Well, my mom was a nominal Christian, and my dad was kind of an anti -church believer in God.

When I was in my mid -teens, a friend invited me to church, and the church to which he invited me

happened to be a church called Believer's Chapel in Dallas, Texas, where S. Lewis Johnson for many.

Years.

Oh, yeah.

I had the privilege of having lunch with S. Lewis Johnson in the 1990s when he was

speaking at a conference in New Ringgold, Pennsylvania, and I was so delighted that he gave me the honor

to sit with him and have lunch with him, and I picked his brain, and it was such a blessing.

Yeah, well, that was the time I was a

sophomore in high school.

I was convinced of the doctrines of God sovereignly.

Just to be back in the set of great expository ministry with sound

theology, and so the Lord saved me again.

I had a desire to be in ministry.

I actually had the privilege again of being with Ray Orland when he was

at Dallas Seminary.

Oh, wow.

They had a lot of other.

Well -known folks there.

Wasn't Ray at one time the pastor of Calvary Baptist in Manhattan?

I'm not sure.

He's been in a few different places.

I know now he's in Tennessee, I believe, but he was

at Wheaton for a while, but anyway, just had an amazing background there.

Desired to be in ministry.

I was actually

on a living in case I got any bigger

in this public ministry, so I was 30, and elders being older, I spent most of my

20s, but in God's providence, when I was working overseas in Saudi Arabia, I was suddenly made the pastor

of an underground church there, and I did that for six years, but I got kicked

out.

Then went to Westminster Seminary in California and was involved in

the counseling ministry, taught some at Masters College in their

counseling program, and then just in July, I was asked to come.

I accepted the call to come on Theological

Seminary in Charlotte.

A new life here.

Well, praise God.

Well, you have written this booklet.

It's a part of a series, actually, as you know, since you're the one that wrote the

booklets in the series, but you have a booklet that we're going to be addressing for the

first hour.

Help, my anger is out of control.

What were the catalysts that led you to want to write this.

Specific booklet on this issue?

Yeah, this is a booklet that was catalyzed, to use your word,

that during the normal counseling load,

this counseling center anger was

a huge issue.

I was probably involved in over 90 of all counseling problems, and I just wondered where the

other 10 was, because I found it almost every case, and I kept

this anger biblically with people,

kind of doing this literally dozens of times, teaching from the Bible, trying to give them

basic principles to remember.

I had worked at the time, so finally, when I kind of already had it in

my mind, how to...

Many books is something that you can read in less than an hour.

It's kind of the equivalent of a good counseling session or a good sermon.

So, for people who might have difficulty reading a 200 or 300 -page book, they can read a short booklet that

gives some of the main ideas of how the scripture addresses a particular problem.

And if you could, this may sound like a silly question, but define anger, because obviously

there must be different forms of anger, because there is anger that is righteous.

There is anger that even our Lord and Savior, who was completely free of sin,

demonstrated.

You know, you have examples of him clearing out money changers in the temples, or you have examples of him calling the

Pharisees whitewashed sepulchres filled with dead men's bones and brood of vipers.

There was obviously anger behind that, but it was obviously completely free from

sin and righteous.

And then, of course, you have anger that is sinful, that the Lord prohibits.

So, if you could, tell us exactly what you are talking about in this booklet.

Right.

The Council on Anger says, anger

is our whole person's active response of negative moral judgment against perceived evil.

And so, putting that into simple terms, anger is a judgment where there's a sense of something's

unrighteous, and then there's a response, and it can be an intellectual response, and sometimes involved with

physical responses.

I mean, it makes you want to act to make things

right, to make things said.

God himself is righteously angry with the wicked.

He brings judgment.

Jesus was merchandising in the temple,

and even Moses was.

And so, there is such a thing as a righteous anger

from those of us where most

of our anger, I think,.

Has an element of unrighteousness in it.

Well, when someone is beginning to feel angry,

I guess, since there are two forms of anger, they've got to really do some self -examination

as to the motives of this.

Sometimes, it may be purely self -evident that it is coming

from a spirit of sin and wickedness and self -righteousness.

And sometimes, obviously, as we've already been saying, it could be over something that is purely

acceptable and even the correct response.

And sometimes, as you know, it could begin as a

righteous indignation, as something that is purely acceptable and honorable to God, but it may develop into

something sinful.

If you could explain where the Christian should be when he feels these.

Feelings of anger rising up within him.

Sure.

Well, one of the challenges in evaluating our own anger is that all anger seems righteous at the time because

anger itself is us having a sense, this is not right, this is not just.

And so, you never feel more righteous than when you're angry, even if it's a sinful anger at the guy

who treated you or something.

And I really can't

when a real thing wrong and

wrong in terms of violating the law of God.

Then second, which is when your concern is for God's kingdom and not your own.

So, give a concrete example of I'm angry at a million babies

unborn being murdered in our nation every year.

That's a real sin.

And I could have a righteous anger in that these people have no regard for the image of God.

And he is the one who

gives life.

On the other hand, righteous anger,

they did

not sometimes, but

more from my own

kingdom that I want to

be

trained

to give a concrete example of that.

I may have been looking back at abortion.

If that is a real sin, I could have a passionate hatred of that sin

and affront to God.

I need to express that anger righteously and to blow up an abortion clinic

with people inside.

Someone involved in abortion would be an unrighteous

taking vengeance or even if it has been

unfaithful.

And so you might think, well, I'm concerned for the seventh commandment

being kept, avenge yourself on them.

That is not righteous anger at that point because God has not authorized you to take revenge.

That's something that belongs to him and him alone.

I'm going to give our email address.

If anybody.

Would like to send in a question of their own, it's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the good

old USA.

And obviously this is the perfect kind of subject

that will lend itself to some folks wanting to remain anonymous.

So I perfectly understand that if that is your wish, if you feel

rather uncomfortable identifying yourself because you're talking about a personal and private matter.

In fact, we would prefer that and obviously would not want you to divulge

people's names.

And since these are coming via email and not phone call, I will make sure of that obviously.

But the email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And what are some ways we can help

angered people or angry people?

We'll start with those other than ourselves, those that we know because

obviously the first thing that somebody who has an anger problem is going to do when we try to help them

by pointing out this problem is they're going to be angry.

But any way to help them by diffusing that issue

from the get -go and being of some kind of practical help to them?

Right.

We're appreciating 6

-1 says if someone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual or

stringent to be tempted, bear one of his burdens.

And so we should do so as we're walking in the

spirit, not in a fleshly way.

A lot of times the scriptures is a harsh word stirs up anger.

A gentle answer turns away wrath.

And when people are angry with you, the temptation is to fight fire with fire.

I don't know about you, but if my house was burning up, I would not want them to bring flame throwers.

The gentleness and

the love and even getting non -judgmental, in a sense you're making a judgment, but a non

-condemning, not I'm better than you because you're an angry person, but I'm a sinner sometimes.

I'm angry, but you come gently and lovingly, like Galatians

said, any

sinner comes to Christ

and the Lord has to work.

And

then Bible that

should transform an angry believer who's lying to himself.

He has a false view of reality.

And so this is also an area

where there's such a contrast between worldly anger management

sometimes, and they've yelled at their boss or they've been angry in public and, or they've had abuse

problems, which we'll get to in the next hour.

And they've been sentenced to anger management classes.

Manage, not just control

our anger and hold it in, but it's actually the kind of the water of the grace of God and

the gospels and the word of God.

But as we remind yourself for a believer, it should

things, and it could be five

things I need to tell myself if I'm angry or five

things, someone to listen to me when they struggle.

And actually it's a way of organizing.

It's kind of like how many points of Calvinism are there?

I didn't pick five for that reason, but as a summary of what the Bible teaches, kind of a systematized

version, I just found over and over again

from an ungodly man centered thinking.

Why don't you go through those five steps?

I would be delighted to.

Um, something actually at

the end of the book, what I described the situation where my young adult son had been home

alone for the weekend, and I get home and he's gone and the house is trashed.

And I have to recite these to myself because I'm that way to just kick him out.

You can feel your mind race and go to

anger in James chapter one.

So what do I do?

And counting to 10 isn't enough in a sense, but

because I want something too much.

And in James chapter

six, among you is not the source of your pleasures, which were your members.

You lost and do not have you commit murder.

You do not have because you do not ask.

And an angry person is angry because he did not get what he wanted.

And yet that's what I wanted.

Husband and wife are angry at each other.

There's a famous book called love and respect.

I don't want to go too far down that road, but she's angry because she isn't getting love.

And he's angry because he's not getting respect.

He confusing them.

And they're thinking, well, there's nothing wrong with me wanting to be loved.

There's nothing wrong with respect.

That's what the Bible says.

My spouse should be giving me this, but they're not.

And so the angry person saying, and

often what we want, isn't a bad thing.

You know, I get home from a long day of work and my wife's been home all day.

It's not sinful for me to want to eat when I get home.

But if my wife has lost track of time and gotten distracted and the food is not ready,

I'm hungry and I want it so badly.

I may be tempted because I don't have to then express

that they've been thinking about me and she should have been ready.

Another example would be, it's not wrong for a wife to hope that her husband would give her flowers or candy

on Valentine's day.

And to remember that or to be romantic, but then what is she going to do if she doesn't get what she

wants?

And anger is the recipe for this.

I wanted this and you didn't give this to me.

And so now, you know, I'm going to express my anger.

There's anger in my heart.

It's going to come out.

But when we want something so badly, we're willing to sense

idolatry rather than looking to the Lord.

Ultimately, when I want something,

when I'm angry, I'm desiring something excessively.

And the thing I desire may be legitimate, but what I need is God.

And in this sinful world, I'm going to have a wife who's late or she's

going to get what I want.

And then I'm tempted and I'm feeling this anger because I didn't get what I want.

I'm in very dangerous ground.

And James uses the language when you don't get what you want, you kill, which is referring back to Matthew 5 where

Jesus says, if you have anger in your heart, you're a murderer.

You call somebody a name, you're a murderer.

So that's the first point.

If I'm angry, it's because I want something too much.

And then the second thing I need to tell myself is that if I'm angry, I need to remind myself,

I am not God, which should sound pretty simple.

But James says in chapter four, when he's saying we should not judge each other, there's only one judge and that's God.

And when I'm angry, I'm saying this person,

that could be me coming home and my wife

is distracted and there's no dinner, not even

say a word.

And just, I can be cold or I can give her the silent treatment.

Somebody might yell, somebody might do it.

Somebody might make their spouse sleep in the doghouse or something, but there's some form, be it

verbal, physical, through action, through attitude, because you have hurt me, I'm going to

wrong you.

I'm going to punish you, which Romans 12 says we're not allowed to do because vengeance belongs

exclusively to God.

And a beautiful story, which reflects this is when Joseph was with his brothers and Genesis

did come and they bow before him and they're afraid.

What is the first thing Joseph says?

He says, am I in the place of God?

And the answer is no, you're not in the place of God.

Joseph says, even though they deserve to be punished, he's not going to play God and punish them.

But when we're angry, we're tempted to play God.

I need to remind myself it's not my office to judge.

Yeah, that especially comes into play.

Where it's most obvious in its most grotesque form when we murder someone or physically

retaliate against them.

I'm not talking about self -defense, of course.

I'm talking about abusing someone physically out of anger.

We are behaving like God, that we are so righteous that.

We deserve to punish someone.

Right.

And of course, where Jesus says, if you're angry in your heart or if you call someone a name, that

also is the same as the sin of murder, just as lust is the same as the sin of adultery.

I think that's what James is referring to in chapter four.

I don't think people are literally murdering each other physically.

If people didn't get what they want from each other, then the temptation is to verbally, to mentally

murder.

You know, in my case, I don't yell at my wife.

My temptation is just to be kind of grumpy and not make eye contact very much.

And that wounds her.

That hurts her.

And that is me in the

category of murder.

We have a listener in Slovenia, Joe,

who says, Please ask Brother Jim to exegete,

interpret and apply Ephesians chapter four, six through seven.

Be angry yet do not sin.

Do not let the sun go down on your anger.

And verse 27, and do not give the devil an opportunity.

How should we live out these instructions in our day to day lives?

Oh, that's a great question.

And that's one aspect of that is how

seriously we need to take sinful anger, because he says, if you allow anger to continue,

you're opening the door to the

get very, very angry with his wife.

And I use this analogy that he's kind of he was kind of a tough guy that said you, you wouldn't leave the

doors of your house unlocked.

Especially if there was a gang in the neighborhood, or you knew somebody was trying to get in, you would keep

your family safe.

And yet when you allow yourself in the house in your state of sinful anger,

inviting the devil himself in to wreak havoc in your home.

So he says, be angry and do not sin.

Certainly there is such a thing as a righteous and would be not simply

expressed in a way that is righteous, which could be a gentle rebuke

or correction.

Although as I read Ephesians, different people have different ideas on it.

The sense I get is unjust to

the wife, whose husband, the day

of the anniversary is nearly over.

And he is when something happens provocative, or somebody cuts you off in traffic,

you're going to experience in your body and your mind, the

reaction to this injustice of anger.

But then in that moment, you have to process it in a godly way and not let it continue to devolve to where you want to take vengeance

and express that anger.

Simply, you need to humble yourself before God, have self -control, realizing that if you

do not exercise that self -control, you're going

to damage other people and damage relationships.

I would take that question.

I really like the.

Question.

Well, guess what, Joe, in Slovenia, you are getting a free copy of this booklet that we

are discussing.

My Anger is Out of Control by Jim Neuheiser.

And thank you so much for providing an American address.

So we will mail this to your daughter through Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service as soon as possible.

And we thank cvbbs .com, that's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

for mailing out all of our winners, free books and Bibles and DVDs and everything

else that we give away to listeners who submit questions.

And a shout out to Todd and Patty Jennings for their

faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And we do have some more listeners who have questions here.

We have an anonymous question or questioner, I should say.

And let me, let's see, we have to enlarge this because I'm going blind and the

email has a very tiny font, so excuse me for this.

Let's see, the anonymous questioner says, I wonder

what your guest's advice would be to an anonymous wife enduring a husband's

fit of rage almost daily, even if she is not particularly the target

of those fits.

Is she to remain in the home during those times?

He is irrationally enraged, or is it okay to exit until such a time as

he calms down?

And when, in fact, I'm gonna have you pick that question up when we return from the break, Jim, so you can

answer that when we return.

And we do have a number of people already holding

on to have their questions asked and answered, but if you would like to join them as well, our email address

is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, we will be right back after these messages.

I am Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World

Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try World at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book

Relationship Between Church and State.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting, I gain insight from the analysis, and World provides

clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio,

and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit wmg .org forward slash iron sharpens

to get your World trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free, no obligation with no credit

card required.

Visit World News Group at wmg .org forward

slash iron sharpens today.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study.

Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible

translation.

The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the NASB is known

for.

The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible.

Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary

topics relevant to today's issues.

From compact to giant print Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible

.com.

Trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today.

Go to nasbible .com,.

That's nasbible .com.

Tired of bop store Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the preaching?

Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well, there's good news.

Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience

featuring the systematic exposition of God's word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

631 -929 -3512.

Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

That's wrbc .us.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he.

Has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past

you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor.

Of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastor's Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastor's Study, because everyone needs

a pastor.

Welcome back, this is Chris Arns, and if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours

of the program is Jim Neuheiser, and we are discussing two

very important topics today, as I think we always do on Iron Sharpens Iron, or at least we

address one important topic every day.

Today we're addressing two, and the first is help my anger is out of control, and the second hour

we will be addressing help someone I love has been abused.

And our email address, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, is chrisarnson at gmail

.com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And before the break, Jim, I was reading an anonymous listener's question.

She has a bit more to say, but for the first part of her question, as I read to you before the break,

I wonder what your guest's advice would be to an anonymous wife enduring a husband's fit of rage

almost daily, even if she is not particularly the target of those fits.

Is she to remain in the home during those times he is irrationally enraged, or is

it okay to exit until such a time as he calms down?

And in counsel,.

Based on the limited amount of information, you also have to speak pretty generally, because there's such a

range of actual situations that could be describing, and a lot of it pertains to the second

topic in battle mind, kind of switching back and forth,

anger.

When Jesus says, if you're angry, you're speaking angrily, it's murderous.

And for the wife, even if the anger is not directed at her, it

smells like murder.

It still has the aroma of this fleshly, and all the things, all the

deeds of the flesh that are involved in outbursts of anger, that list in Galatians 5.

So I can understand that if he's angry enough to put his fist to the wall

while team lost, or because his boss gave him a hard time, or

because the internet isn't working or something, it's not hard for her to imagine

that anger being at her, because sooner or later she's going to fall sin.

What he is doing is very serious.

Jesus would say in Matthew 5, it's very serious sin, and even though it's not directed right at her,

I understand why she could feel that she is in danger, and why it is hurtful and

offensive.

And then, in terms of what her options are, that we don't know.

Does he profess to be a member of a church?

I think she, as a wife, has the right, in Galatians 6, to gently speak to

him, probably not when he's in the midst of the anger, but when things have calmed down to

rage.

I think Matthew 18, where it says, you go to your brother, but he won't listen to you, bring others in.

I don't think that her requirement that she submit to him means that he has the right to tell

her she can't get help in a very bad situation in their home and in their marriage.

Matthew 18, Jesus didn't say, unless he's your husband or your father, in which case you have to keep your mouth shut.

I think she has the right, if they're in the context of this, of this

very serious problem.

And then the church would get involved, counseling him, correcting him, doing what's necessary.

The immediate situation, which really pertains to the abuse,

we have a responsibility.

My general rule would be, if she believes that she

can get help,

31, you know, open your mouth to the mute, to the right, to the unfortunate, open your mouth and judge righteously, defend the right to

be afflicted and the needy.

It's hard to know what's going to take someone from anger, the physical

expressions of anger, but it's all in the continuum together.

Now, it just makes him more angry if she said, well, I'm afraid to tell, I would never hit you, often

the person would say.

Children believe she needs to temporarily get out, needs to get help,

again, not just to get rid of this troublesome man, but to try to help him, help their marriage.

In light of the danger issue, I would say safety,

trying to do so in a way that isn't overly provocative to him, but also in a way that helps

this awful cycle won't continue.

And I'm assuming that due to the fact that the.

Anonymous listener used the term rage, I'm assuming that you wouldn't have any problem with

a wife witnessing her husband in a fit of rage,

especially if that is involving any kind of violence.

I'm assuming that you would think it is completely right and acceptable for her to immediately flee out of

that house with the children, if they have them, to a neighbor or anything that would keep her safe

until this situation changes, because rage is a pretty strong word that she's used here.

Right, and that's what I'm saying, since I don't want her to go saying, well, Jim told me to do.

This.

You don't want a rageful husband looking for Jim.

Well, I'm not as worried about that,.

But I'm just saying I would ask a lot more questions.

But in general, if someone believes they're in danger from an angry person, and they feel that violence

is a possibility, it

can ruin their lives.

And again, family, neighbors, but then not

just to get physically safe, but

to address the believers and non -believers and church members.

There are situations like this going on where these are officers in the church acting this way, and there's this

horrible, ugly, hidden issue going on at home where everybody thinks he's great,

and he is raging.

He's going to cross the line, and next time when he throws something, it's going to hit her

instead of the wall.

And I don't think that that sin has a right to privacy either.

I mean, just escaping temporarily and then going back, I think help needs to be sought,

again, not to condemn the guy, not to destroy the marriage, but to be able to restore the peace of home,

to keep her safe.

And like you said, that he is committed to her safety.

If he's repentant over his murderous anger, he should be the first person to say he has every right to

driven her out instead of what is often the case.

He just is more angry because his wife has been violated by his wife running out the door, and she's

making a big deal of nothing, which is often the angry, abusive personality.

And the second part of this anonymous listener's.

Question is, if there is no attempt at an improvement to such behavior,

is this type of anger abandonment?

Is this man's behavior an evidence of an unbeliever,.

Even if he claims to be a Christian?

Right, and that's why I was so cautious earlier.

Have I seen situations, it could be, by the way, it's been the woman as well as the wife,.

Yes, yes, I mean, you might even have a man who is just physically weaker than his wife.

He may even be disabled, or maybe older, or any number of reasons why he is

being abused.

In fact, I have even heard of one case where a man was

physically abused by his wife because he had a very

godly, biblical, old -fashioned, if you will, concept that you

don't hit a woman.

The cases I've seen, he was angry and hateful,

and it wasn't that he couldn't have given grace

not to do it.

So, if you're with someone who's violent like

that, completely unwilling to live at peace with you, that could wind up through a process

in terms of if you're getting to that point, and that's the question.

If he professes to be a Christian, is he a member of the Church?

The Church needs to be involved.

The Church needs to do everything they can to try to save the marriage.

It needs to disciple him,

help her,

one spouse is provoking the other, simply, and find some pleasure in seeing them

erupt, like they won.

And so, there's so much involved in a situation like this that I don't know.

It could be possibly, and he's unrepentant,

you know, maybe he's abused the kids, and the police, the state has even said, if you let that guy

back in your house, we will take those kids.

A lot of it would really

declare him an unbeliever if you get that far.

A lot of it would be, are you willing to live at peace with her?

And she feels unsafe, she can get out, you know, you live within these constraints,

and he says, no, I have every right to beat her whenever I want to.

I could see it getting as far as my fear is that some people, the

first time they see a flash of anger in a husband, or it could be a wife, ah, I've got ground,

me being a great sinner, and what God is doing, let no man separate, to try to save the

marriage, to get the logs out of her own eye, to try to rescue this person from the consequences of their sin, get

all the help the Scripture says from the Church, from the Scriptures,

that he could wind up.

I'm leaving the door open for that, but there's a long road to get.

Finally, it would be that person who's angry, mean, and violent, abusive.

Essentially, they've made the decision not to be willing to live in peace.

It's not just that the offended, innocent party has said, okay, I've got you now, I have a ticket to get out of the marriage.

Yeah, and lest there is someone who is

so warped in their thinking, and I'm speaking especially to men out there

who think that, well, a wife is supposed to be submissive to her husband,

therefore, if my wife doesn't submit to me, I am free to use this kind of

physical force when I feel necessary.

If somebody is that delusional, or twists the Scripture that much, I

would like them to think for a moment, if they were alone in the pastor's study,

knowing that a member of a congregation, a member of the flock, is to be submissive to their elders,

and that elder started slapping you around.

Is that justifiable, just because you're supposed to be submissive to your elders?

That this man can physically harm you in any way, or use violence against you?

Obviously, you'd probably be the first one to call the police, or what have you, if that were to happen.

You'd think that this is crazy.

Well, then you should be looking at yourself that way, wouldn't you think?

I would like to tag on to that, because I think you brought up a couple of really important points about, now we're more on the abusive, angry

personality.

First of all, the kind of guy who demands absolute obedience from his wife, absolute submission,

nobody else can talk to her, she can't talk to anybody else, is the same guy who has a total disregard for any

authority.

The people under him, in his view, they have to submit, no matter how sinful he is, and they can't talk to anybody about his sin,

if they're good enough for this guy to respect.

You have the same attitude, typically, towards the government, towards bosses, etc.

It's only a one -way view of authority.

Another particular type of abusive man, they use

Ephesians 5, 22, wives submit to your husbands, and here's a guy who hurts his

wife physically, screaming at her, maybe getting

drunk, telling anybody else about my sin.

You know, all of those, or some of those.

I'd go back, Galatians 6, 1 doesn't say, unless it's your husband.

Matthew 18, 15 doesn't say, unless it's your husband.

A wife has the right to be shepherded by the leaders of the church, even as a wife, you know,

gets to that point, to calling upon the civic authorities, the government, to keep her safe,

and the husband's authority was not given so that he could continue to protect himself from the consequences of his sin,

and shield himself from the authorities God has placed over him.

It was given to him as a very common thing, and it's very common in

Christians for men to be treating their wives and their children horribly, and for them

to say, you can't tell anybody about what I'm doing.

Give his own soul, she has to go and get help, lest he continue to go down this path to

destruction, not to mention what it's doing.

To her and to the children.

Anonymous, if you'd like to give me your full name and address, we will ship out to you

a free copy of Help! My Anger is Out of Control by Jim Neuheiser, and obviously we

won't divulge who you are on the air.

This is really for the purpose of sending you out the free booklet, and we're going to a break right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, and there are a couple of people still waiting, and we thank

you for your patience, and we will get to you as soon as possible, but if you'd like to join them with a question of your own

on the air, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I

-S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state and country of residence, unless this is

a situation where you would prefer to remain anonymous because it's about a personal or private intimate

matter.

And we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors, so please do not go

away.

Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes Solid Rock Remodeling to our family of sponsors.

Serving South Central Pennsylvania, Solid Rock Remodeling is focused on discovering,

understanding, and exceeding your expectations.

They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results.

Solid Rock Remodeling offers a full range of home renovations, including kitchen and bath

remodeling, decks, porches, windows and doors, roof and siding, and

more.

For a clear, detailed professional estimate, call this trustworthy team of problem solvers

who provide superior results that stand the test of time.

Call Solid Rock Remodeling at 717 -697 -1981,

717 -697 -1981, or visit

solidrockremodeling .com.

That's solidrockremodeling .com.

Solid Rock Remodeling, bringing new life to your home.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia,.

For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528

-5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch

our TV program entitled Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org, that's providencebaptistchurchma .org,

or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron.

Radio.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round Bible conference and retreat

center nestled on the Jersey Shore.

Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.

For generations, Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars.

Each year, thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families, couples,

singles, men, women, pastors, seniors, and missionaries.

90 miles from New York City, 70 miles from Philly, and 95 miles from Wilmington,

and easily accessible, scores of notable Christian groups frequently plan conferences at

Harvey Cedars, like The Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus

Crusade, and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org.

hcbible .org.

Call 609 -494 -5689.

609 -494 -5689.

Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and changes lives.

Lindbergh Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbergh, Long Island,.

Is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday.

Worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages.

Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join.

Us here at Lindbergh Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

Call Lindbergh Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

That's 516 -599 -9402.

Or visit LindberghBaptist .org.

That's LindberghBaptist .org.

Are you a Christian looking to align your faith and finances?

Then you'll want to check out Thriving Financial.

We're not your typical financial services provider.

We're a not -for -profit Fortune 500 organization that helps our nearly 2 .4 million members be wise

with money.

We provide guidance that reflects your values so you can protect what matters most.

We help members live generously and strengthen the communities where they live, work, and worship.

Learn more about the Thriving story by contacting me, Mike Gallagher, Financial

Consultant at 717 -254 -6433.

Again, 717 -254 -6433.

A new faith, finances, and

generosity.

That's the Thriving story.

Hi,

I'm Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World

Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try World at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book,

Relationship Between Church and State.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting.

I gain insight from the analysis, and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio,

and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit wmg .org forward slash iron sharpens

to get your World trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free, no obligation with no credit card

required.

Visit World News Group at wmg .org forward

slash iron sharpens today.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

The New American.

Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study.

Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible

translation.

The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the NASB is known

for.

The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible.

Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary

topics relevant to today's issues.

From compact to giant print Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible

.com.

Trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today.

Go to nasbible .com,.

That's nasbible .com.

Tired of box store Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the preaching?

Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well, there's good news.

Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience

featuring the systematic exposition of God's word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

631 -929 -3512.

Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

That's wrbc .us.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into a visit to The Pastor's Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit The Pastor's Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to The Pastor's Study, because everyone needs

a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with an hour to go is Jim

Neuheiser, Director of the Christian Counseling Program at Reform Theological Seminary in Charlotte,

North Carolina, and the Executive Director of IBCD, which stands for the Institute

for Biblical Counseling and Discipleship.

He is also a fellow and board member of ACBC, which is the Association

of Certified Biblical Counselors.

We are discussing Help!

My Anger is Out of Control, which is a booklet he has written in a series for Shepherd Press,

and also we are now going to be entering into very soon our second discussion

specifically on Help!

Someone I Love Has Been Abused.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i

-s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

And before I return to our discussion with Jim, I just want to remind you that Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio is in urgent need of new sponsorship.

If you know a business owner, if you know a professional person like a doctor, a lawyer,

a dentist, a chiropractor, if you know just a benevolent person

who God has blessed with great means to which to donate to

various organizations that are of some benefit to the body of Christ,

or if you yourself are any of those, perhaps you're just an average person who would

like to donate to Iron Sharpens Iron, well, I urge you to please

contact me at chrisarnzen at gmail .com, chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

and let me know of any recommendations you have.

If indeed you do know of folks that may be a perfect match for us, if they

share the theology or they have a similar theological bent

to what has been expressed on Iron Sharpens Iron, and you think that they may want to

keep this radio program on the air, well, send me their contact information.

If you yourself want to donate, just go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

and the third option at the top of the page is support.

After about commendations, you have support, and you have the full

mailing address there.

You can make your checks out to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, or what you have written there on

the website right now is Cruciform Media.

You can make the checks out to Cruciform Media as well.

It's C -R -U -C -I -F as in Frank, O -R -M as in Michael, Cruciform Media.

Either way, you can make your checks out to either of those names.

In fact, Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is just easier for you to remember.

So we thank you so much for your prayers, most of all, about this issue.

Now we are back to have our discussion with Jim Neuheiser.

We're going to continue our discussion on Help!

My Anger is Out of Control, and we will then enter into the subject

of Help!

Someone I Love Has Been Abused.

Our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, and we do have

CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, Could you give

us some rules that may apply to a Christian as to how

to express their anger rightfully without sinning?

For instance, obviously it's never wrong,

should I say, I'm sorry I misread this, it is not always wrong to

yell or raise your voice, because, for instance, if you have children who are being physically

violent towards each other, you're not going to whisper to them to stop.

But sometimes it is wrong to raise your voice, and of course it would be completely acceptable

to use physical strength to remove one child from the

room or to lift him off of his sibling if he is beating that

sibling.

You are not always forbidden to use any kind of physical action when it

comes to anger, but sometimes it is inappropriate.

Do you have any list like this that would be some kind of a helpful guideline.

To Christians to know when they've crossed the line?

I think the guidelines are almost implicit,

but I think a lot of it is back to Matthew 5, it's within the heart.

In your heart, you're simply angry.

The way you do discipline

is harmful as an expression of anger.

Discipline is meant to be like God disciplines us as our Father, where He does so

lovingly for the purpose of restoration.

Thanks be to God He doesn't vent His wrath on us, because that's already been accomplished by Christ on the

cross.

And so, am I

zeal for the good story of my child, or am I

angry because my comfort and the order of my life has been messed up,

and I'm annoyed that my children are keeping me from doing what I want to do?

And so, am I avenging myself on them?

Which Romans 12 says, vengeance is wrong.

Carnal discipline is never vengeance.

It's loving, and outwardly, in both cases,

you may have had to raise your voice.

I think that should be unusual.

You may be disciplining, including something physical, but if in your heart you're enraged out of

control, like a city with the walls broken down, as the proverb says, is a man who has no control over his spirit,

that is a simply angry expression.

Lovingly thinking I have

righteous anger with my kids,

because I'm afraid that could be just patience.

The fruit of the Spirit is love.

The beads of the flesh include, you know, the rage and the outbursts of anger.

And so, am I walking in the Spirit?

I'll express it by flesh.

I'm in no position to fix anybody.

I need to first get right with God to be walking in the Spirit before I can then, as Galatians 6 .1 says,

gently restore them.

And even my children, when they sin, they need to be gently restored.

Now, if you could address overcoming anger by the grace of God.

Right, and that was

actually five things.

Truths from the Bible I need to keep reminding myself of, and we actually have a card that we give to Council Leads that goes along with

the booklet that just has these five things written down along with verses.

But realizing I'm angry because I want something too much.

I desire something.

James 4 has already talked about that.

Angry, I'm tempted to play God by punishing the other person, but I'm not in the place of God,

as Joseph told his brothers.

And then third, which I think is the key to the whole thing, is just remembering God's grace to me.

Ephesians 4, 31 and 32, let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away

from you, along with all malice.

Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving each other, just as God and Christ also has forgiven you.

You know, and in our

heart, when,

Ronald,

you've wronged me, far more by

God, a debtor who has been completely forgiven.

Now, the one who's forgiven me wants me to reflect that grace to others and enlighten

God's grace and forgiveness when people wrong me instead of this attitude of

judgment.

So I need to remind myself of God's grace to me and how he wants me to forgive others as he's

forgiven me.

The fourth thing to tell myself is just reminding myself that God is in

control.

And it could be the kids, spilling,

breaking.

In that case, good

many lives might be saved.

That's kind of the Roman day 28 of the Old Testament.

God works all things together for good, for those who love him, for those who are called according to his purpose.

So whatever even other people do in my life, and they may, like Joseph's brothers, they may be guilty of

wronging.

But ultimately, God, who loves me as a father, has allowed this to happen.

He's also promised he will not tempt me beyond what he's made me able.

So I need to recognize he's in control.

I'm angry because I'm not in control, right?

I'm not.

But he's allowed this to happen.

I need to see what he does for him, for my

good.

And then the fifth thing is I need to remember who I am.

Roman 6 11, consider yourselves to be dead to sin.

When I was in the flesh, when I was an unbeliever, I couldn't control my anger.

But as Roman 6 says, that guy died.

And I'm a new person in Christ, raised with him.

And now I don't have to be out of control.

I can be under the control of the spirit.

I can bear the fruit of the spirit.

I'm no longer a provocation that tempts me to get

angry or opportunity to see God

working appointments and hurts that God can enable me to bear the

fruit of the spirit instead of the deeds of the flesh because what he's done for me in.

Christ.

You know, looking at this cover for the booklet, you have a picture of a fist, which

looks like it's going through sheetrock, and reminds me of some foolish things I did as

a young man growing up in fits of rage, things that I no longer do, because now

I would have to pay for the kind of damage.

And one thing that I think is a very prevalent problem with even

Christians, because I have not only done this myself, but I have witnessed many other

Christians, even pastors do this.

That is what we know as traffic jam anger,

to put it mildly, where people will say words that they typically would never say

in front of their Christian friends, especially when congregating at church,

and perhaps some hand gestures here and there will be sinfully used to other

automobile drivers.

And this is not only a sin, but you could be inviting upon yourself

some serious violence because of this phenomenon known as road rage, where we actually have people being

murdered because of upsetting other drivers on the highway.

But any advice before we move on to help

someone I love has been abused?

Anything you care to say about road rage?

That's a great example, Chris.

There's a couple things I would say.

First of all, if this pastor is so angry reformed, if he believed God is sovereign in all things,

then who is he

angry at?

And the waiter who messes up your order.

Ultimately, the God who controls all things has allowed this to come into your life,

perhaps to test you.

And if you're angry, ultimately you're angry with God.

That'd be the first thing.

The second thing would be you're worried about murder, but Jesus said, if you hate,

you're calling an idiot or worse things in your heart, and you're calling names like that, you're the murderer.

According to Jesus in Matthew 5, 21 and following.

And it's also, it's not just, it could be affecting the people outside of your car, but

even more, you know, your wife is there, your kids are there, and now they have the presence of murder.

They get it.

It stinks.

It's awful.

And they're uncomfortable, and they're miserable.

And whatever useless, you know, venting you feel like you did, and venting is not a

difficult concept at all.

But whatever you think, somehow that made you feel better to try to verbally avenge yourself.

You're damaging them, be in the presence of some

example to them.

The fruit of this, if you're walking in the spirit, this is not going to be coming out of you.

Life is full of provocation.

We live in a fallen world, in

traffic, and how does God want us to respond to that?

But to say, again, he's in control.

And who am I to get back to, you know, what do I want?

I want the traffic to be my way.

I want to play God and judge these idiots.

I want a cannon in my car to shoot them.

Well, I'm not God.

God has been so, where should I be right now?

I'm not in traffic, not in an air -conditioned car.

I should be in hell right now.

God has shown infinite kindness and patience and mercy to me.

Who am I to be judging these people?

And then, if God is in control, he's allowed this to happen.

And finally, I'm a new creature in Christ.

Yeah, this is the way I was before God saved me.

But I don't have to be this anyway, because Christ has set me free from slavery to sin and the flesh, and he's made

me able to bear spiritual fruit of love and joy and peace and patience and all these things, even under the pressure

of others sinning against me.

Yes, and I think that we should also not.

Forget when we are, especially when it involves a traffic jam, that we don't even know what's

going on down the road that God, being omniscient

and omnipresent, knows.

And God may be preserving your very life, because he knows that if you were to be at

a certain place on the road sooner, if you were to get to a

certain destination faster, there are times that we will never know this side of glory, and

perhaps never know that God is actually rescuing us from.

Something that lies ahead that we are unaware of.

Yes, and that's trusting him that he's in control.

Again, I want to be in control, which is, I want to play God.

Something we actually created that I sent you an email with that as an attachment, and we made this card that we print up

thousands of.

We call it the anger card that actually has these five things on it, and people could print it if they want.

But we would pass these out to people and say, this is the kind of thing you need to stick in your car and in your, you know,

on your mirror, bathroom, or wherever.

Just a summary, if here's what God says to you, and not just the

concepts.

When I'm angry, I'm thinking unbiblical.

My thinking is false and idolatrous.

So I need to remember these truths of, again, how gracious God has

been to me, that he's in control, that he's working good.

The change he's made in me, I don't have to live this way.

It's not my calling to judge others.

And it's just a reminder in my flesh the things I want.

I want things so badly I'm willing to kill verbally, mentally, if I don't get it.

The only thing I ultimately need is God to give me

everything else I need, and maybe he needs me to be late because I'm in traffic so that I can grow in grace.

Well, if anybody wants to get a hold of this booklet that we are discussing,

Help! My Anger is Out of Control, or any of the other booklets in the series by Jim Neuheiser,

you can go to the Shepard Press website, which is shepardpress

.com, shepardpress .com, and in the search engine you could type in

Neuheiser, which is N -E -W -H -E -I -S -E -R, where you

see a search engine there at the right corner of the screen on the

Shepard Press page, and you can see all of the booklets that are a part of the series written

by Jim Neuheiser.

And you can also go to our sponsors, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs

.com, cv for Cumberland Valley, bbs for Bible Book Service, dot com, and order anything by

Jim from them.

They have quite a number of these booklets and other things by

Shepard Press available at cvbbs .com, and we thank

Todd and Patty Jennings, owners of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, for their

graciousness in supporting Iron Trepans Iron, and by shipping out all of our winners

their free books and DVDs and CDs and all these other things that they win

by participating in the program through their questions for our guests.

And we are transitioning now over to specifically address the second topic

for today, help someone I love has been abused, and if you'd like to

join us on the air with a question on that issue, our email address is chrisarnson at

gmail dot com, chrisarnson.

At gmail

dot com.

If you could, Jim,

define abuse.

What is it?

Non -accidental neglect, or sexual abuse.

It ties in very much to anger, typically, in that much of it

could be hitting someone or people talk about verbal abuse and verbally murdering them, screaming at them.

These are anger.

This would be lust.

Often there's anger involved, but it's more often of lust.

So it's simply mistreating others would be a problem.

We have Tyler in Mastic Beach,.

Long Island, New York, who asks, could verbal abuse in the family give

children false and sinful assertions of who God is?

Obviously, he's specifying verbal abuse, but any kind of abuse.

Would that be the case?

A qualified yes, in

that family is a huge influence.

And you know, in the Old Testament, the verses that people debate over where sins are visited to multiple generations.

I think one way that sin is passed down to generations can be, you

know, there's statistics that show that people who came from very abusive families, people who have been

abused, are prone to be abusers themselves.

Those who are punished by angry parents who keep them in a rage over punished them,

the model they had, and they tend to default to that.

And so yeah, I think that's a huge reason why we as parents,

on the other hand, I'm also comforted by the fact that 1 Peter 1,

knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like

gold, silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, for

the precious blood is of a lamb unblemished and spotless.

The blood that I get from that verse is that you may have inherited a horrible

example from your forefathers, just as, you know, perhaps Peter's original readers inherited.

The gospel of Christ, the blood of Christ redeems us

from the horrible things about our parents, our forefathers,

consigned.

If your parents were abusive, this was an influence in your life, but the gospel can

break the power of that influence and enable you to walk in the spirit and be different from your forefathers.

You're not condemned out of necessity, and

the gospel can transform us and enable us to be parents who

answered that question.

But I think the essential core of the question was correct, is that how parents treat their children,

including abusively, has influence.

But I'm so thankful.

To God it's not determinative.

Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania wants to know, why is it that Jesus

chasing the money changers out of the temple would not be considered abuse?

Zeal for your house shall concede.

Jesus, going back to the criteria of righteous anger, a real sin was taking place, a great

sin, that the temple was being...

Jesus' concern was not a personal offense against him, even in its humanity.

His zeal was for his house.

Righteous anger is where we're concerned about the glory of God, and that God isn't getting what he deserves, not we're not getting what we deserve.

And righteous anger is righteously expressed, and he, as the son of God, over those

tables and rebuking those people, was acting justly.

He had every right to do that.

Such circumstances in our lives may be rare, but his is a righteous

against God.

An analogy I could give in terms of my own counseling, it relates to abuse, is

that when a man comes in, beating a child,

arrogant, thinking he'll leave.

I mean, I've had times in counseling where I believe I was experiencing very

righteous screaming out of control, but I raised my

voice, and from the word of God, I strongly admonished the person and pronounced

warning and judgment upon him if he doesn't repent.

And I believe that's as close as I get to righteous anger, and maybe something in some

way resembling what the scripture describes our Lord expressed and experienced.

In his own life.

Yes, and of course, what Christ did was not like the scourging or flagellation he

received at the pillar.

There was nothing like that.

There was no indication that there was serious bodily harm done to any of these money changers.

It was really something that seemed to frighten them and cause them to flee, but there

was no serious or remaining.

Injury as a result that we can see from the text.

If he would have called down fire from heaven, it would have been what they deserved.

Yes.

It was merciful.

They got driven out.

He's unique, and we know he's without sin, but also as God the Son, he

has authority, and that is his Father's house.

He won an only unique Son of God situation.

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

That's not that we would never be in a situation of righteous anger, in fact of my own righteous

anger, because I know I'm capable of deceiving myself about my anger, and when I calmed

down, I realized I wasn't quite as righteous in my expression of that anger as I thought at the time.

Jesus was not susceptible to a fleshly, sin nature like mine that

could be self -perceived about how justified my anger might be.

Yes, and of course, there are.

Things that God has the exclusive right to, that no creature

has any right to participate in.

Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, and of course, even the condemnation of people to hell,

which might, by an unbiblically trained mind,

might be viewed as abuse, and even people have wickedly

described the crucifixion of Christ as the worst case of child abuse

in human history.

They don't understand that God, being a holy and righteous

supreme being, has rights to things that we do not

have the right to even approach.

Jesus, even in the passage, it's zeal for God's help, for God.

When I'm angry, my ox, the dumb thing about

me, it's not that I have this passion for the glory of God as much as

concern for my kingdom and not God's kingdom.

I mean, another passage refers to our Lord, I think it's in Mark 3, looking around at them with anger and grief at their

hardness of heart.

He was indignant, and so Jesus perfectly

hates

what God hates.

We can experience that, but be careful if you think that's what you're doing because

yours is not going to be.

And by the way, Tyler and Arnie, you're both getting copies of the book, Booklet

Help.

Someone I love has been abused, so please give us your full mailing addresses, and CVBBS .com

will get those out to you as soon as possible.

And by the way, any of you who are wondering why you may not yet have received a

book that you have won by submitting a question on Iron Sharpens Iron in recent weeks,

well, the trip I had to Atlanta to the G3 conference and subsequent

battle with the flu has kind of held things back, but hopefully within the next week or

so, everyone will have their Bibles and their books and everything else they won shipped to them by

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

We're going to our final break right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We will be right back after these messages with Jim Neuheiser and our subject at

hand, Someone I Love Has Been Abused.

Hi, I'm Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World

Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try World at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book

Relationship Between Church and State.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting.

I gain insight from the analysis and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio,

and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit wmg .org forward slash Iron Sharpens

to get your World trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free, no obligation, with no credit card

required.

Visit World News Group at wmg .org forward

slash Iron Sharpens today.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs

a pastor.

Welcome back, this is Chris Arns, and if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two

hours with about 24 minutes to go is Jim Neuheiser.

We are discussing his booklet Someone I Love Has Been Abused.

It's from a series that will begin with the title Help, and

we earlier discussed Help, My Anger is Out of Control, and now we're discussing Help, Someone I Love Has

Been Abused.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

We have another anonymous listener who wants to know, what is the

best advice in breaking the ice with someone you love when you fear that

they may be being abused by their spouse, but you don't want to insult them

or do anything to harm the.

Friendship.

If I was able to, I'd want to know

why do you think abuse may be taking place,

and you don't want to impulsively, again I'll give you a concrete example

where I'm new of a situation, there's a lady in the church where

she, well I

felt that the behavior of the husband, which we

found out it was, it wasn't like, depending on what you've seen, or you've

seen the husband, you know, yelling at her,

or I guess, then it depends, if you

hardly know them, it's going to be very difficult to get that close.

If you're a pastor, a leader, and you've seen them back to the presence

of the psalm, so we have a duty to protect the weak, uh, you might

look for opportunities.

If you're a close, sometimes it's

being sure they might be comfortable, might feel safe confiding in you, so it really

depends on you to think this, and

if it's inquired as to

what may be going on, and to give hope of help, which gets back to the whole, what kind of support mechanism is

there?

Is there a godly church?

Is the husband a professing believer?

Getting involved to the

extent of providing a person to go, so I think

love, hope, stop

making an accusation unless you have proof.

I don't think it's wrong if you see smoke to gently inquire as to whether there might be a

fire.

Maybe she really did fall down, maybe the husband

raising his voice that one time is highly unusual, have

been abused for various reasons,

turn the question, should be praying for that

person, and if we're close, they biden us, then

to offer them the help, the word of God supplies

through the church, through other means, his family, that they could be safe, and the problem.

Could be.

Well, thank you, Anonymous, and please give us your full name and mailing address, and we will have this booklet

shipped out to you by Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, for CumberlandValleyBBS

.com.

They will ship that out to you at no charge to you or to us.

We thank them for alleviating us from the shipping costs of all these folks who regularly win

Bibles, books, and other items by submitting questions.

If you could,.

Uh, how can victims become overcomers?

Yeah,

the temptations may be many.

Uh, sometimes a victim, and he wouldn't get angry, he

wouldn't hit me, realizing that, yeah, I mean, it's not, I mean, I should deal with my own

shortcomings, but there's no behavior that justifies the

other spouse verbally or physically.

Murder is fear.

Worse, confront him, and I would say confront him the way the Bible says, Matthew 18.

You know, if there's serious sin going on, the purpose is, well, if I

were to bring in somebody else, he would leave me, he

would kill me, whatever, she's a friend, you may need to get wise counsel,

Lord, and not lean on your own understanding.

If the Proverbs says, and to overcome your fear,

sometimes they have a wrong concept of submission.

They mean submission means I should never

report anybody, report him or tell anybody, um, so

as to make clear as

well.

They've gone to counsel.

The response they've gotten is if you were just more submissive, if you were just a

better wife, that he wouldn't be so angry.

I don't diss her as well, but I think a lot of times churches have

really been guilty of horrible failures, and sometimes even sending a woman back,

physical danger, laying on her the blame for the

situation.

You know, here's a guy who's yelling and screaming at all the time, and basically saying, if you're just more affectionate to this guy and more loving,

uh, then he would be okay.

No, some people are so wicked, no matter how nice you are to them, they just take more advantage of you, beat you all the more, and manipulate

you, and sometimes angry people, they get what they

want, willing to hold the

abusive person adequately, um,

and so those are a few things, and then in

terms of,

we have abused, a key

understanding

done to you.

I think this is

a place sometimes is

helpful, which tells you the God will

protect you and bring justice.

Um, I think that a biblical view,

20, you may not grieve, but God may forgive.

Somehow God is at work, uh, and

that doesn't mean, as

God, he's not out of control, he's not abandoning

you.

Addressing issues of, depends

of granting forgiveness, and then if

you've had abusive parents, then abuse does not have to be

labeled by and identified, I am a victim and now I'm going to be an abuser, now I'm going to be bitter, now I can't trust

people.

You don't have to, by

the grace of God, you can walk in the spirit and overcome the softening and the fear,

all the temptations that go with that.

There's a great story in the Bible to go horribly abused,

harassed by his employer's wife, and then he was mistreated by being cast into jail, but he didn't

become a bitter abuser, because he keeps saying the Lord's with him, and Joseph was walking with the

Lord, and at the end of Genesis, when he had his chance to avenge himself, or even

earlier when the brothers revealed themselves to him, because he was walking with an abuser, he

didn't become vengeful, he abused him and cared for

them, and I think rejoiced when God finally brought them to repentance.

Amen.

Uh, we do have an anonymous.

Listener who says, is it ever right for a husband to use

physical restraint to prevent his spouse from doing something that may be

harmful to herself or others?

For instance, if an intoxicated wife is determined to go outside to

the car and drive away, is it ever right for the husband to, without doing any

kind of injury, whenever possible, put the woman in a bear hug or something like that

until she calms down?

Obviously things like this could be easily viewed as abuse when the intent is never

abuse, but the exact opposite.

I'm not talking about tying someone to a chair or anything like that, I'm talking about using

reasonable physical restraint to prevent harm.

To the spouse or others.

Another example would be, you have

a husband who's out of control and he's beating a kid, and the kid may be

potentially injured, and I think

the wife has a, or even

to protect this person from themselves.

Yeah, could there be this rare case?

Yes.

Is it, is that their danger of it becoming abusive the

other way?

Call, well, you call 911 if you need to.

If other lives are in danger, a person who's drunk or otherwise inebriated is about to get in a car, if

someone is a danger to themselves or others, we as counselors actually have a legal obligation to get the civic

authorities involved to offer protection to life.

So, yeah, I mean, I could see a situation where, you know,

coming at the kids, the wife is trying to figure out in that awful

situation, what is the best thing I can do to protect life?

Or if

you had a man that hateful and angry, but God would provide,

did not involve a massive physical altercation.

I can't promise that would never happen.

The example given was a little easier where if you've got a 200 pound man and a 105 pound

woman, and she's out of control, you know, he might have to

temporarily restrain her.

I would try to get the church authority there pretty fast to help

get control of the situation.

So it's not just on him.

Well, thank you, Anonymous, and if you give me your full mailing address and full name,

we will remain anonymous, of course, and we will get this book let out to you.

Help, Someone I Love Has Been Abused by Jim Neuheiser, and that will be shipped to you by

cvbbs .com.

And I'd like you, Jim, to basically have the floor uninterrupted for about

five minutes to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners before we move on to.

Any further listeners who have a question.

Something we haven't talked about as much of the abuser, and the heart of the abuser is

really the heart of anger as well.

Abuse, they've convinced themselves that if they don't get

what they want, they have the right to vent that anger sinfully.

And abusers can be manipulative, will minimize their own sin,

blame others, very, very self

-centered.

They make much better counselees than the victim of abuse.

And the poor victim says, well, nobody's going to believe me because everybody loves him.

It's been observed, you know, abusers tend to follow a cycle of building up,

blowing up, oh, I'm sorry, and then over and over that happens.

In one sense, it's at

least easier than counseling abusers.

It takes a great work of this who's been playing God and

imposing themselves physically, controlling others, justifying it

in their own mind, blaming them where, yeah, I know I

shouldn't have hit her, I went too far, but repenting of a heart of anger, a

heart contempt for the rights of others and

the self -centeredness, even the narcissism of, you know, I must have my way or else.

Genuinely, yet the spirit can do

that in Psalm 51, like David, and just broken over the

awfulness of their sin, the awfulness of playing God.

Heaven warns against a worldly sorrow.

Wayne Mack has an excellent worksheet about a worldly sorrow versus a godly

sorrow.

And a worldly sorrow is kind of, it's, you know, I want to be trusted, I want to be restored.

This is so hard for me, like Cain.

A godly sorrow is going to be, I don't deserve to be trusted.

What matters to me is not that I get my rights restored,

whatever it takes, I'm willing to do

this abusive act that way, which gets back to, we need to be

prepared to take strong action to protect the victim of physical abuse.

We need to be ready to admonish of anger.

It's very serious.

It can happen,

for God, and it's not because I'm a great counselor if it happens, or you or anybody else, but we

give the word, we point them to Christ.

If someone understands, like the terrible day of merciful sermon, if the abuser is the person who's choking and saying, pay what

you owe, the 10 ,000

talents, not a hateful, vengeful person.

Well, thank you again, anonymous listener,.

And please get us your full mailing address, and we will get this booklet out to you from

cvbbs .com.

We haven't received your mailing address yet, so hopefully you'll get that out to us.

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who says, I am not speaking

of myself, but I have friends who live out of state, who are

members of a church where they are not getting much help in the realm of counseling.

The problem is that the Christian counselors they are aware of charge too much money,

they cannot afford it.

What is your advice to people in this predicament?

Again, not knowing the particulars, I don't want to judge a particular church, but in general,

in Ezekiel, you

have shepherds who refuse to care for the sheep in Israel

being condemned in the harshest way, and so my understanding

would go to the shepherds of the flock and say, I need help.

The shepherds, to be qualified, they know the Word of God, they care about people.

My hope and expectation would be

godly leaders in the church within counsel for the

ordinary things that just keep happening in the church over and over again, and then if

something happens, a child who's cutting, or this couple,

one of them says he wants to be transsexual or something, I've never dealt with that before, then

get help from godly,

biblically -based counseling ministry.

The church is not able to do what is ideal, I

hope the church would be willing to participate, and we will go with you to the

benevolence for us to help you with that.

I've been involved, worked solely on a donation basis and did not charge.

I know others have a different position on that, but even most of those will generally reduce the

charge if there's financial need.

My passion is even both what we've done with IBCD equipping churches, what I'm now trying to do at RTS,

is I want to have churches full of pastors, godly

women, and counsel within the church.

Going outside the church would be rare, but that also involves people when you're choosing a church, not just to be looking

for the church that has the music you like, but true shepherds who are equipped to care for the sheep.

And do you have any organizations or counseling ministries

that you know of firsthand that you.

Could recommend?

I think ACDC is a network of certified biblical counselors, not

state -certified, but this organization is a good place to start, and there are over a

thousand people scattered around, mostly in the U .S., some around the world.

And their website, I have it right in front of me,.

Is biblicalcounseling .com. Biblicalcounseling .com. Any place

else?

That's where I would begin.

The secondary place to look would be through the Biblical Counseling Coalition, which networks together lots

of biblical counseling ministries around the country and around the world.

So that would be a

couple places I would go.

But I would admit that I can't always find

someone where you live, and another challenge like

IBCD is that because so many

churches are neglecting this

ministry, either you're not charging, you're not charging

much and relying on donations.

And so it is hard to find people to help you,

which gets back to we need to strengthen churches so they can do it there.

The situation you're in, you might look for a church in your

area who has that commitment and that ability.

Looking on these other websites can triage in an emergency situation.

They're the long -run care for the sheep, and churches

need to care for one another

in the problems of life people face.

Now IBCD, the organization that we mentioned where you are

the Executive Director, their website is IBCD, which

stands for Institute for Biblical Counseling and Discipleship, IBCD

.org.

For those pastors or church leaders who want their congregations to be equipped.

For one another care.

Yes, and IBCD has video series which are sold for a very reasonable price.

A lot of churches will use a seven -square curriculum.

These include actually observation of what's required

in homes, the kind of normal situations people are in, not just in office.

Then there are hundreds of free resources online if people just want to listen.

The IBCD training can lead either to ACDC certification or IBCD has its own

rigorous and demanding maybe baby

steps and they're ready to use them in their own.

Well, other than shepherdpress .com who publish your booklet

series on help, any other contact information you care to give?

PNR, publishers and booksellers who sell excellent

books, shepherdpress .com,

ACDC has resources on their side as well.

So, I mean, we live in a good time compared to 50 years ago.

And we're out of time, brother, and I thank you for being on the program today and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your

lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.

God bless.