October 11, 2022 Show with Ottavio Palombaro on “From Rome to Reformed: The Confessions of an Italian Ex-Catholic”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris

Arnzen.

Good Afternoon.

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.

We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron Radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this

11th day of October 2022.

And I'm thrilled to have as a first -time guest today Octavio Palombaro,

he is an author and a Roman Catholic convert to Reformed Protestantism Who is

conducting the doctoral work on the historic Italian Protestantism of the

Waldensians.

And today? we are going to be addressing his autobiography from Rome to reformed the

confessions of An Italian ex -Catholic.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to iron sharpens iron radio Octavio

Palombaro.

Thank you Chris,

amen, well.

Let's jump right in to your your conversion

testimony.

I know that you are not only an Italian ex -Catholic.

You are actually from Italy as your accent clearly revealed when you just greeted me.

And Why don't you start?

With your your childhood.

Being raised in Italy.

Yes in a

very today comes to

be known as the state that

you should be believe.

I Come to from a town that is right next to

the Pacific of

spirituality.

I have a unto is currently a nun in a very Marian order.

I have many siblings and my parents are very devout.

In fact they were praying that one of us as children will become a priest.

My mother had her eyes on me because of and in fact I was part of

many many Catholic movement throughout my life.

In adolescence, I never doubted God.

I always thought the Catholic Church was the only true church and in particular I looked down on

Protestants.

I was part of even Catholic mission.

I was You know going to pilgrimage both in

Italy outside of Italy places where the Virgin Mary appears and gets vision and

I always Was very very strongly devout.

Struggled several times and season in wanting to become a priest.

One time I got sick and I promised the Lord that I would consecrate my life to the priesthood and

again Attended monasteries.

Several Catholic monasteries both in Africa and Western Africa and South America

Where I was involved with activities within monastic life you could say.

So I was always trying to figure out the will of God for my life.

All the way to my university years I

The

Pope at the time was Benedict the 16th with a cow I

shaked his hand.

I was the Pope even with my fellow students at

university were actually against Catholicism, so I was very jealous.

From time to time I had encountered some Protestants.

And it had always been very antagonistic on my side of trying to prove them wrong trying to

Defend the Catholic Church from their attack

study.

After my bachelor degree in cultural anthropology in Rome.

I then went to turn where I was doing a master degree in sociology.

And I was part of this monastery where my roommates Who was trying to find a

cheap apartment?

Came in and he was actually a Protestant an evangelical now.

I didn't find out that he was evangelical from the beginning.

But in religion came to understand that he was

Protestant and so.

So if he was if he was cheap in a Protestant he must have been from Scotland.

I'm just kidding.

Well, it's really from Albania.

He was in town in turn.

We had already Calvinistic leanings so in our debate.

And I was almost immediately introduced to Calvinism

early in my Conversion so as I was debating with my friend there I

was very very animated, and I was trying to find support to Catholic doctrines.

Not only I couldn't but I was also challenged by the Bible knowledge of this Friend of mine

and the fact that he knew the scripture.

And so I I decided to start reading the Bible the Catholic Bible with all the apocrypha and

to go through the Bible First time in my life Yes, the priest might have read on Sunday

certain passages from scripture, but I never read it and from Genesis to

Revelation I began to see that there was very many of the

Catholic dhammas.

Not only that but I began to kind of be convicted of sin because I started to

see that my devotions to God was very much like a Pharisee a religious man

who knew much and wanted to defend The faith, but I had very very

Much hypocrisy in the heart.

Yes, I went to Mass.

Yes, I confessed the sin to the priest.

Yes, I even Wanting to become a priest and leaving all

selling all my possessions and give it to the poor I wanted to go to as a pilgrim to Jerusalem.

Nothing of this was really bringing peace in fact I I was struggling with

eager toward God because I Felt he

was distant from me.

No matter how many rosary no matter how many good works I was as I

read the scripture.

However, I For the first time in my life the first book in my life.

I read many books through my Learning and no.

No the book was giving me so much peace and I Felt it was

close to me like never before I always thought it was a distant book but now he was speaking

to my issues of my my life both in my

challenging the foundations of my Catholic faith, but also My condition as a sinner

before a just God throughout that season of

conviction of sin I was engaged in the relationship with a

Girl who was actually very much nominal.

It's not atheist and that was it the amount of my Hypothesis, but

she had managed to convince a priest again as I was

seeking to contemplate leaving this girlfriend and Joining the priesthood.

I had think asking.

How do I know the will of God for my life just with a Franciscan priest

Salesian of Bosco priest which in that town was from movement and none of them could give me

articulate answer.

Yes, they would give me a book written by a Jesuit or some sort of Spiritual discipline, but nothing was

actually bringing in peace to my heart.

The Bible did it the Bible did it.

I was coming to a deeper understand of scripture.

That's where actually providentially God brought that relationship to an end with that girl.

And I was honestly in a desperate condition Both to the providential ordeals of

the way that the Holy Spirit was already acting in opening my eyes

picture so I went to my Albanian Protestant friend and I asked

him if I could join him into a Evangelistic retreat where a pastor preached the

gospel clearly that we are unworthy sinners.

But there's no way that we can reach heaven to our good work

unable.

It's all to God, but Jesus Christ at the cross paid the penalty

for our sin by trusting and Trusting alone in his

work perfect work at the cross.

We can be reconciled and at peace with God in Perplexity I went to that pastor and I said how can I be

sure that what you're saying is true?

And he started sharing the gospel of John that if you believe in Jesus Christ You have eternal life

that no one shall snatch you from the father's hand.

I never heard those truths and so out of perplexity.

I left that retreat and I Thought this would pass on just like any

Catholic retreat any any Spiritual journey that I did in places of pilgrimages.

It was instead I had joy for the weeks

ahead months ahead and now it has been 11 years I Was

able to repent from my sin.

Something that I couldn't when I was confessing my priest to the to the priest my sin week by week.

I always want freedom from slavery to sin and

in my The day that I approached my father After a few months of going to

the Catholic Church on Sunday.

I couldn't stand it anymore of Bowing down to Virgin Mary and praying to

her or the Saints or kissing the statue of baby Jesus.

I was convicted of these things and I had to say to my father earthly father.

I am sorry, but I'm leaving.

She was extremely furious.

He took the copy of my Catholic Bible and threw it into the trash and said you have the devil and you

have to live.

A year of my conversion was very challenging.

I had to hide my Protestant Bible and As I was in the

process and I was examining Essentially the

beliefs of the Catholic Church in particular from the Catholic catechism in light of Scripture.

So what then came out to be the autobiography that you mentioned?

So that is proof actually of those extended period of time where I

I was looking at Scripture and I was looking at and in the light of the Catholicism of the Catholic Church and

Yes, so this is the Way that I came to Christ.

Hallelujah.

Hallelujah, and I don't know if you are aware of this, but I am also a former Roman

Catholic.

I was raised in Roman Catholicism attended a private Roman Catholic parochial

school for eight years and the Lord rescued me out of

the enslavement to the Idolatry superstition and false gospel of

Rome and I have to Quickly add to this.

I had no bad memories of being raised Roman Catholic.

I had no bad memories of being a student in a parochial Roman

Catholic grammar school.

I Have nothing but fond memories actually the only time I'm disturbed by the

memories is when I realized that I was being taught.

Damning lies, but as far as the memories of the friendships

that I had in fact Facebook and social media has brought a

lot of evil to the surface of people's lives.

But one of the wonderful things that it has done for me.

It has reconnected me with many of my Catholic schoolmates from

st. Martin of Tours in Amityville Long Island and It's interesting

how many of them frequently like on Facebook

my posts that are very clearly Protestant.

So it's I don't know what the Lord is doing with some of them.

Some of some of these posts are very explicitly Non Roman Catholic and clearly

evangelical Protestant and you know in regard to the gospel and so on.

So I just hope that the Lord Has a domino effect in mind and

is going to bring more souls from my childhood to Salvation, but

just back back.

I'm sorry.

We're gonna say something.

You know

I can.

Yeah, I

was I was going to ask you.

What is the the religious climate in Italy everybody I think

Knows even if they are not a Christian or a Roman Catholic or know very little about Italy

from most of their acquaintances or friendships or even their own family they know that.

The odds are 99 of the time if they meet somebody who has Italian

ethnicity that that person is Catholic.

Obviously sometimes they're wrong.

But that is the assumption that most make.

But as far as the religious climate of Italy is there a lot of

or in any rate was there a lot of very deeply

Believing Roman Catholic families that you knew or was

it Predominantly in your experience other than your own faith, which was obviously

Something that you believed was The key aspect of your life, and you were very deeply

religious in regard to Catholicism.

But did did most of the Catholicism you experience?

Was it nominal?

Were your Catholic friends churchgoers were they people who Actually

observed the sacraments and all that or was it just I'm a Catholic just because I'm not a

Protestant a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindu or Buddhist.

Oh, yeah.

And Evangelicals are

number of people who will embrace kind of a Bible.

Overall, my experience has been

actual very much Strongly Catholic like not

nominal.

I have friends Currently are

part of the most strict monastic order.

I have friends who are part of a Catholic movement.

I

strongly Catholic side of things but it is obvious that out of that 80 of

self -proclaimed Catholics There is a large percentage of people who

now are Very much nominal, which means they might attend

Christmas or Easter and baptism and funeral although still

a quite high percentage of people that comparatively still go to

Mass weekly and.

And then yeah growing secularism obviously like the rest of Western Europe.

It's definitely there so I.

Among people of similar experiences to mine I encountered like ex

-priests who currently and in fact kind of in some ways either

Led the way or like contemporary have struggle with some issues.

Maybe not the whole Embracing of Protestants, but there is probably some issues.

Let's say there is a Priest in South Italy was refusing to baptize

infants.

And so he had a strong even

Social media on that regard.

Why do you mean he's well.

It was a Roman Catholic priest who adopted the Baptist understanding that only only Repentant

believers were qualified as candidates to be baptized.

Theologians once they ran out of argument at the end he was expelled

from the priesthood and Now he's part of yeah, I'm more

evangelical then there's others like nuns who for

40 years Have been you

know part of the Catholic of this nature, but

sooner or later They become I think

example of a very vocal and social media priests who

may be

sympathized but again They're very very few

because they

said an angelical presence in Italy is almost another existence and

The closest more widespread that Italian people can come across is

the cult

cases of this nature.

In fact since you you mentioned Priests and nuns who have left their Roman Catholic orders

and by God's mercy were saved And brought to understand the true gospel.

I just want to give a plug to the ministry of a dear friend of mine that I Had known

for many years prior to his going home to the Lord He passed away

several years ago and entered into eternity with Christ, but are you familiar with Richard Bennett?

The former Roman Catholic priest who became a reformed Protestant evangelist.

And the website for you folks who may want to investigate The works of

Richard Bennett and also works that involved former Roman Catholic priests and nuns

You can go to Berean beacon org.

Berean beacon org and one book in particular Is far from Rome near to God?

Testimonies of 50 converted Catholic priests and The truth set us free.

20 former nuns tell their stories of God's amazing grace.

One thing that this Reminds us of including you and your testimony

is that there are many of us who know the truth?

Who are Bible believing Christians and yet tragically we sin greatly in

the area of being more afraid of men than of God and And and also being

more concerned over the feelings of Our friends and loved

ones than we are over their eternal souls.

And so many of us who know Roman Catholics deeply involved in

their religion we dare not say anything that offends them and that would include telling them that

they have a false gospel, which Obviously you are very happy now

In spite of how angry or hurt or whatever the emotional

Spirals you went through.

You are rejoicing that someone Told you something that made you uncomfortable

in that the very core of your life.

Your religion was sending you to hell.

Yeah.

And so tell us there are people.

Not only Roman Catholics, but even evangelicals.

Tragically it's actually disturbing me deeply.

The number of Evangelical Protestants even reformed Protestants.

Yeah, even brilliant educated Akima did

come.

I can't even say the word right now.

Yeah.

Who.

Yes scholars who know the gospel inside and out and yet they've become very

ecumenical with Roman Catholics.

Not telling them to repent of their idolatry their superstition and their false

gospel.

But for those of our listeners who are.

Perhaps they're angry that we are having a discussion like this or perhaps.

They're just mystified dumbfounded baffled.

They may think that we are just being bigoted Against

a religion that is not now our own it once was both of our

religions, but but now it is not a religion of our own and so they just view it as

Christians making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to the differences.

That we have and in this case it would be particularly with Roman Catholics.

So tell us why this is so important.

Why this is not a matter of trivial issues secondary or tertiary.

Issues or even lower on the rung of importance.

This is not just about the fact that Roman Catholic priests wear

robes and clerical collars and have candles and.

That kind of thing.

There's there's something far more deeply

Damning.

Not that those things are in and of themselves damning, but there are other matters that are deeply damning.

And so tell us why we are even having this discussion sure so this brings the

mind right the Controversy

within evangelicalism 20th

century, you

know Late

Billy Graham

that might take confused on this

regard or Why as you said is it so important couldn't we

consider?

From Rome to

reform is this could we just

consider that the Reformation is reformed as you say

sometimes is even within or like An

evangelical exodus we have been hearing from people.

My answer to this is again.

These are issues first of all that we need to Analyze taking in mind and

noticing something about this notice that Yes

sometimes well -intended And well -grounded so if

you look at the majority of cases when we deal with Those evangelicals or Protestants that

either want to be extremely ecumenical And just passe toward the Reformation

as they deal with from a Catholic notice that usually Even as you

listen for example to their conversion stories.

I have to personally Debate several times with a

seminarian in a Bible college who now is the priest and I mean notice usually what the

refrain is what is the reason that leads them to Roman Catholicism away from the Protestant

faith and You will find out that despite the claim of being you know I was first

decayed I was this I was that there's usually very little reference

usually a Fascination with the history with the liturgy with the tradition

with church fathers which Praise God.

We are not denying any of this.

We love very high personal love church history.

We do love the church fathers even as Protestants, but the question is how much?

Biblical knowledge, and I would say well -rounded Ecclesiastical

understanding of the New Testament passages in particular do these cases show and you will

find that many many time if not all of the time in particular in the

media those that are targeted are usually the very weak and

shallow wings of Evangelicalism which then turn into ecumenism or things like

that, but not so much the Solid and when that happens yes, we can discuss and

there we have to go just like again.

Both our forefathers in the state from the Reformation all the way to

the current Theologians reform theologians and reform Baptist brothers

who are speaking on this issue.

We have to see that this is not a secondary or tertiary issue.

Martin Luther Started the Reformation.

This is a something that we need to explain to our Catholic friends Started the Reformation not

like Erasmus of Rotterdam.

Erasmus of Rotterdam wanted to clean up the moral corruption of the church

Reformation is not that the reason why a Reformation was started the reason why people were ready to be

burned at stake and risk their entire life was not simply because they were Debating the

corruption of the church.

Yes the indulgence per se.

That was not the real issue that ultimately led Martin Luther to make his stand.

Well, let it stand was salvation.

Eternal life.

How does a sinner stand just before God?

How do we answer God?

Justification to Christ alone.

Scripture secondary,

but it was

Church of God the true

all says in Galatians.

Then a great risk of being under the curse

of God the anathema of God.

And what is the irony of the Reformation?

That the response to the desire of

magnify the grace of God and Justificated that no works of the law can make us righteous

before God has actually become The item one of the number one item

of the Council of Trent that is under the.

So it's almost like eating your Hammer on your foot.

So this is not a secondary matter.

This is a matter that pertains the way that we can be reconciled in fact.

In fact, let's pick right up where you left off about this being the core issue.

Regarding how he can be reconciled as sinners to God.

We'll pick that.

We have to go to our first break right now.

So if anybody has a question for Octavio.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Ch r is a r n z e n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence only.

Remain anonymous.

If your question involves a personal and private matter.

Such as you are a Roman Catholic you may be.

Starting to struggle with maintaining the beliefs that you have been raised in

you have questions about.

Where your your faith has led you astray.

You don't want to identify yourself publicly at this point because you're still a Roman Catholic.

That's just one example of.

Obviously a good reason why someone might want to remain anonymous, but if it's just a general Question

about the Bible about Roman Catholic teaching, please.

Give us your first name city and state and country of residence.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Octavio Palombero and more of our discussion on his salvation

testimony from Rome to reformed don't go away.

Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth co -host of Fox and Friends weekend now.

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May God bless you.

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I am now back with Octavio Palombaro who is an author and a Roman Catholic convert to

reformed Protestantism and He is currently conducting doctoral work on the

historic Italian Protestantism of the Waldensians.

And it just struck me as very comical that this Young man from Italy just corrected my

English Accommodation is what I was trying to say and

He knew what I was trying to say and for some reason one of those Moments where you got like a frog on your throat.

You just can't spit out what you wanted to say, but anyway right before the break

we were discussing how the difference between Roman Catholicism and biblical

Protestantism is the difference between how we can as

sinners be reconciled to God and How we will be led on a

pathway to hell.

Unreconciled to him because we are trying to at least Partially earn our

way to heaven.

Am I.

Correct in using that as a summary

people, but I would say

like the divide but what is

the ultimate authority

for any matters in life and

We would argue a scripture piece of yes

that we can be involved us

and involve our either damnation or salvation, but

it's Every single issue.

I would say of difference can be under this umbrella of authority and

question of ultimate Church, obviously has placed

such authority in the hands of the church and Tradition and

not only Scripture.

That is why in my book every single chapter I deal with Essentially how

does the scripture compares with you know, this Catholic understanding of salvation the

Catholic understanding of baptism the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist which is their

understanding of the Lord's Supper their understanding of the priesthood and their understanding of

papal infallibility their understanding of Mary's role as

Mediatrix and in particular her role within Catholic religious practice and

all the way to matters of what is the nature of idolatry and the second commandment

and Ultimately, yes for us as reformed believers.

I understand when grace goes

now.

One of the things that I have said to my very dear Roman Catholic

friends And some family members that remain in Roman Catholicism

when they try to Make me out to be the bad guy because typically

your modern -day Roman Catholic who is not a traditionalist Who is not an old

-school? pre Vatican to Roman Catholic the typical modern

Roman Catholic is an ecumenist and they are Eager

for you as an evangelical Bible -believing Protestant to say you are my brother in Christ

we may have our differences they are minor and we can worship together and

We are one in Christ and I have nothing that I am holding

against you at all.

You are free to remain where you are and in your belief system.

And I will expect to see you in heaven when we don't react that way respond that way to them

there is Anywhere ranging from hurt feelings to anger?

And they will make us out to be the bad guys and I have pointed out to them That centuries

before I was born there was a thing called the Council of Trent the Council of

Trent has dogmatically a cursed

all Who agree with the gospel of the Protestant Reformation?

Therefore all the heirs of the Reformers are Accursed they are

anathema ties.

Dogmatically it was not the personal opinion only of those men gathered at Trent.

This was to define Official teaching of Rome and when something is

dogma in Rome a lot of people whether they are Catholic or Protestant Don't realize this when something is dogma.

It can never be changed the the definitions of things that were

dogmatically proclaimed at Trent are Different from other issues like

syllabus II and the priesthood that may one day change and other matters.

As many former Catholics or current Catholics will likely know

There was a prohibition to eat meat on Fridays at one point that is no longer

something That Catholics are bound to.

So there there are issues that are changeable there are issues that are written in stone etched in

stone and The latter are called dogmas, so I tell them your church

officially Condemns me to hell because of my gospel, so I'm not the bad guy here that

actually proves that we have different Gospels, and there is only one gospel the

gospel of Jesus Christ, and that is that we must solely trust

in.

His.

Sinless life his death burial and resurrection as our only hope

for salvation not in anything we Do not in anything that

we are supposedly given if we are saved or in

order to be saved from the treasury of merit of Mary and the Saints

that their deeds do not contribute to our salvation.

It is the blood of Christ alone in his grace and mercy and.

That is a very crucial difference and isn't the very evidence that even as left

-wing and liberal as Pope Francis's He mean he may

not even believe in many of the things that were dogmatically defined at Trent.

He has never reversed or renounced or denounced Trent and he cannot.

Because that would collapse the whole system the magisterial system of Rome wouldn't it?

I I would say cathedra.

So not everything you said,

right?

Infallible, but when he speaks ex cathedra in matters of faith, then yes.

He's out

of definitely

true theology

meaning I think that now 80 is so

right if there was a salvation

outside the Roman Catholic Church right now.

We are we are obviously in postmodern times that have impacted Even the

leadership of the Roman Catholic Church as it goes global as well as compared to.

Yes previous hopes, but he has not defined dogma.

Francis.

Yes, he's not defining dogma and really push our Catholic friends because you see

when I was Catholic I myself did not understand Many of the

dogmaticism

and to investigate them by my Protestant friends.

Yeah, in fact, let's pick up.

Let's pick up right where you left off there brother we have to go to our midway break that you were pushed by your

Protestant friends about some of the things you read in the Catholic Catechism and other things that were very

foreign to the the ancient history of the Roman Catholic Church and

We're going to our midway break, please be patient with us.

It's the longer than normal break and Send in your emails to Chris Ornson at gmail

.com.

Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least city and state and country of residence.

I thank those who have submitted Their questions already for your patience.

We'll be right back.

Don't go away.

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That's also the email address where you can send in a question for our guest Octavio Palombero

author and a Roman Catholic convert to Reformed Protestantism.

And Right before the break you were talking about how your evangelical Protestant friends were

challenging you.

About some of the things that are taught in the modern Catholic catechism and if unless I'm

misremembering from what I understand.

What you were saying is that you were being pointed to things in the modern catechism that are totally

foreign to the history of Roman Catholicism prior to Vatican to their

you know they have an allowance and a hope.

For people outside of the Roman Catholic Church for instance to go to heaven whether they are Christian

Jewish Muslim Buddhist Hindu let alone

Protestants.

So pick up where you left off there.

Yeah,

so it continues

either.

Because many

Catholics are this

an example of unclarity.

Mother was conceived without sin

and

not Jesus.

Yes.

Understand.

So this is an example where many Catholics maybe as we

Biblical concerns we can point them to those things and maybe at time there will be

Some debates over terms, but this

Pointed out that a new found trend of wanting to say.

Oh, we agree.

Yes, we think like you.

We have to hold them accountable to what the scripture said and what their catechism of the Catholic

Church said.

We have to show them where the discrepancy is

in time come to a proper

understand.

Yes, one thing that I also like to remind my Protestant friends

Evangelical friends who are humanists with Rome is that the Apostle Paul

was not an ecumenist with the Judaizers and From what we know about

the Judaizers.

They agreed with everything that Paul taught about Christ except that they

insisted on adding circumcision to the gospel for men to be made

right with God to become Christians and that one thing

Provoked the Apostle Paul to say that these

Judaizers were not Christians.

They had no gospel at all.

They were accursed he said let them be accursed and

Therefore if Paul Did not have ecumenical relationships with the Judaizers

when he could have used any allies that he possibly could have had.

During that day when the Roman government were was executing Christians and also

the the Jews from which the early Christians came Were executing Christians

including the Apostle Paul when he was soul of Tarsus prior to his becoming a Christian.

If they could have used as many allies as possible and yet The Apostle Paul

said no, this is not Christianity.

This is not the gospel.

So if that's true, how on earth can we have ecumenical relationships with Rome?

When they have even more requirements but the oddity of the

whole thing is.

This is where you have to always remember what Trent taught and what the dogma teaches because today

You're being told even by the current Pope that that what you believe and understand isn't

really important at all.

It's just the way you behave.

And if you're a good person a good citizen and like he said about that atheist man who got his child

baptized That was good enough for him.

He's going to heaven and So don't we also?

Have to be careful Octavio not to automatically Declare that every

single person who calls themselves a Roman Catholic Will be in hell to give you an example

my mother my sweet Polish American.

Mother.

Who was a very religious Roman Catholic all our life when she was dying of pancreatic cancer.

I sat down with her and I was having a Conversation with

her.

She completely renounced prayer to Mary and the Saints she

Described her understanding of the gospel, which was a biblical one.

She was trusting Solely on the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

She said none of her good deeds even though she had many of them None of

them were even helping her in any way to get to heaven.

I Nearly fell off my chair knowing what a glorious gift

from God this was and Having her tell me these things Because it

totally removed the fear of her damnation from me.

I realized she is a born -again believer and Reformed Baptist

Author who's now in heaven.

Peter Jeffrey met with her on her deathbed.

He was from Wales He was visiting the United States met with her on her deathbed and he

Said to me said to me when he emerged from her deathbed after being with her alone for About a

half hour Your mother's born again.

She's going to heaven.

What are you worried about and So therefore we have to be careful there are

Catholics who we will meet in heaven but it's in spite of what their church teaches and

The fact that they either through ignorance of what their church teaches or rebellion against what their church

teaches Actually embrace the true gospel.

Is that not a fact that we have to be careful about?

Sure, I think

For

anyone else

and we know how much nominal

in our country the same standard.

We have professional faith that we have for them.

In considering the fruits of regeneration must be maintained in this case which means that in time people

who might be Indeed regenerate and still within

in time.

They will the Holy Spirit should lead them into all the truth.

In particular I think of yes

Revive some of us of our ancient tries

to make that part of the point that we have to come.

People my people come out of her because again the Holy Spirit will will lead us and should lead

us Into all the truth.

And yes, indeed.

There are cases.

Just like it was at the time of Calvin who writes an entire book to the Nico the mind.

Because he's frustrated of all these nobles who are still Catholic.

But they are Calvinist at heart and he wanted to step up but they are afraid and he's trying to push

them like Nicodemus.

Please come out right do know that I come from God.

So yes, we do not want to make every every everything everything the same, but

we do I

opinion

sense yes, and of course in the case

with my mother she.

Entered into eternity three weeks after she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, so we did not have time to see her.

Officially become a Protestant in any way, but that's not what God's concerned about.

He's concerned with the fact that people are trusting in him alone for their

salvation.

And she certainly demonstrated those genuine fruits of repentance and

clinging to the true gospel, let's take Some of our

Listener questions.

We have an anonymous listener who says I am

a Catholic who is struggling with the beliefs that I have been raised in and

I have a number of friends who are evangelical and even reformed.

I have friends that are both reformed Baptists and Presbyterian.

And I don't recall you ever saying which branch of the Reformation you call your own.

Are you a reformed Baptist or a Presbyterian?

So I am so yay

With Baptism and I want to

also comment to the here that I have a lot of Presbyterian friends.

I Being an aspiring pastor was on the road to be

ordained with the Presbyterians, but because of the baptism issue I could not

equal babies and therefore consider them

as brothers in Christ if they're from the conservative side, we know that some

Obviously liberal theology has done what it is on the past century.

But yes, I do belong more on the reformed

Camp in that regard.

So I do I do believe and in fact, this is one of the things that actually clicked

Early in my process of coming out of Catholicism was exactly the issue of

baptism and what it signifies what it points to and yes, the

The nature of the new covenant as well.

That is an issue where with our Presbyterian brothers.

We do feel In Jeremiah 31 fulfilled in the Hebrews

that everyone shall know me from the latest to the greatest.

So we do embrace a covenant theology like them but we do see a

significant newness in the new covenant is the fact that it will be made of regenerate members who partake

both Lord's Supper and baptism as regenerate members of this.

There is no unregenerate member of the community position.

Yes, and there are.

Interestingly enough.

Even some Pato Baptists who agree with that.

And there are some that view their children as a mission field.

Not as.

Yes.

Joel Beakey is one of them who believes that children are to be viewed as a mission field.

That they should be viewed as lost until they bear fruits of repentance and faith, even though he's a Pato Baptist.

But just just just to throw that in there and by the way anonymous.

If you give me your full name and other contact information.

Our guest today Octavio Polombero has promised us a limited number

of electronic versions of his book from Rome to Reformed and

the reason why we have to give away electronic versions during this interview is that the publisher is overseas

and Then the cost would be astronomical to ship out to our listeners

Physical hard copies of the book.

So we will get make sure you get those electronic copies we have.

Terry in Carlisle, Pennsylvania on the works aspect of

penance from Confession.

Like ten Hail Marys or five our fathers.

As a young Roman Catholic teenager I feared God and burning in hell after

confession.

I was happy because I was not fearing hell, but two days later I was fearing hell again because I knew I had

sinned.

I saw the hopelessness of my faith and was driven away.

I was seeking why did he die on the cross if I had to do penance and the

church did.

Or could not tell me why after I came to Christ at 30 I threw away

my rosary beads and This apparently is not a question.

She just wanted to give a testimony.

So that was.

It's great to hear that Terry and in fact it very much like Martin Luther.

He tormented himself and physically tortured himself.

Because he knew that he could not ever Be good enough to please God.

He knew he was a sinner and he was constantly sinning.

Do you

have

any

comments on

what Terry in

Carlisle, Pennsylvania

has said.

There's almost a

sense in which we are trying to.

We have a theological Underlying and that was the problem of Luther that

even his own Talbots had to address in the Augustinian monastery

that again, we have zero experience

of a heavenly father and Of true grace

into the depths at the end of my brokenness where I

could not say

Continue to earn in venture

to the supply.

That grace

is something that I can very much Identify with and we have to help.

People were under that bondage.

Yes, and It is interesting that Roman Catholics will very

often at least they've said to me that they think that We who are

evangelicals Bible -believing Christians Undermine the seriousness of

sin.

Now, it may be true.

Among many evangelicals that have a false theology of easy

believism and cheap grace.

People who believe that they are saved merely because of a profession.

Even a profession that they made a Bible camp when they were eight years old or something.

And and then from thenceforward they remained slaves to sin unrepentant even

perhaps even becoming an atheist.

There is a false and damning teaching amongst the evangelicals and that's only a segment of

Professing evangelicalism that that teaches those lies of an unrepentant gospel.

But.

Wouldn't you say that?

Dogmatically even Rome really has undermined the depth and seriousness of

sin.

First of all in the very nature of man that they claim exists, although they believe in original

sin.

They do not believe as we who are reformed believe.

And the concept of total depravity and that even our wills are so corrupt

That we cannot freely choose to please God through our faith.

Until we have received by God a heart transplant until we have a new heart.

Our hearts of stone have been removed by God.

We have a heart of flesh and We now fill with the Holy Spirit after the

rebirth.

We can freely and willingly Follow Christ and we would never will perfectly on this earth.

Of course, we sin every day more times than we even recognize, but we are covered with the blood of

Christ.

We are a new creation.

And The Catholic Church seems to be and I don't mean this

as far as the teaching of limbo.

But they seem to be in a limbo where they have a concept that they are too good

for hell.

But not good enough for heaven.

Hence.

They're they're requiring.

The doctrine of purgatory.

Am I making sense here?

Doctrine of grace was undermining the seriousness of sin and in our

Where there is reform sin, then you will find that there is definitely

a false claim.

But also we have to remember the distinction between Catholicism and between penance

and their understanding of penance.

We obviously are against penance as understood as a superficial

being sorrowful and obviously a sin that leads to death in my judgment

as opposed to repentance.

And what that drastic change that takes place at conversion that

Influences the rest of your life.

And we also must remember I think that the greatest This is how I would

answer that claim is that the greatest sin that we commit against God remains unbelief.

The garden has God we

say so unbelief toward the true gospel.

So here the question and the claim is if the true gospel in the scripture is on.

If we are on that side Then we have to and

submit to it instead of again as you said.

And bind to a very optimistic understanding of human nature which might not be a legion, but it might

certainly be.

Yeah, they say that we undermine the

seriousness of sin and yet they think They can Make it

to heaven Not completely by their own deeds.

But partially they believe that their sins are not so damaging to their

soul That they cannot help be involved

Be in their their their regeneration and their maintaining of

Salvation.

And then isn't this also People don't recognize how

How much of an offense to Christ's finished work on the cross the doctrine of

purgatory is.

Basically even though they may never use these words They would say

Well Christ really didn't mean it when he said it is finished.

He just finished his part You've got to do yours and

It was not a perfect Redemption it was not a perfect atonement that he achieved

for his people it was Perhaps it was even 80 degree 80

percent of the way.

But we still have to have not only our own good deeds and the Treasury of merit for Mary and the Saints

Added to what we do and added to our punishment and purgatory in order to be

received into heaven.

This is it a real I mean I.

Some may call me over reactionary, but it's a blasphemy.

It's it's an offense to what Christ is Accomplished.

Absolutely.

We did nothing to your salvation except the sins that made it necessary.

We're going back to yeah, gradually

completely lost.

It is an insult.

Oh, for example the Eucharist which is central to Catholic

religion because Many confessions of faith.

I think of the other bird I think of.

Which means that to address this problem when they deal with the Lord's Supper and now.

The Catholic Roman Catholic understanding of a sacrifice Really undermined

makes it only the problem.

Yeah.

Insulting our sin as we compare

keep our vertical and if we do we only do when when it's convenient to

us.

But when when it deals with our perfect works Christ, not just is death.

But

if you

read

Romans, it could never be the

case.

Yeah,

the beautiful

way this has been phrased is the great exchange Our.

Sins were imputed to Jesus on the cross and his righteousness

was Imputed to those he redeemed.

What a perfect and glorious truth an amazing truth.

Something that we are so far from deserving.

We're not only undeserving we are ill -deserving because You know sometimes

when you say that grace is unmerited favor.

You may have in an issue or a thought conjured up in

your mind that It's just that we didn't deserve it.

But the difference would be if While walking down the

street and a homeless person holds up a can and I

throw some coins in there and That person didn't deserve that gift but he

received it.

For me the difference would be in the way God has redeemed his people is if

that person had murdered everyone in my family and burned my house

down and I gave him my entire inheritance.

That would be the difference of what really happened.

When when the great exchange took place.

And I wanted

to also I'm saying now it's and this

is not the

case looking at

You know the picture that

from a couple of hundred years

and then lose

I mean you have a pre -reformer if John Huss

and had already developed a certain understanding of scripture which is far closer to

the standing of sola scriptura and Yet it was centuries before

and obviously if it was white press it would not have needed any reformation.

But this idea that both in the Church Fathers and in medieval theology you have no

trace of this is absolutely a false claim because It was there

and it was it is not an innovation.

But it is a going back the understanding of scripture by these

pre -reformed figures trying to be more

Faithful because again,

I think that is that Once

as a Catholic I started to see how in many ways my Catholic tradition was in not

only saying Adding things to what the Word of God was saying as I was studying the Word of God for

myself I was also seeing that it was also going in contradiction both with the Word of God and

with one another so many sources of traditions were saying the opposite

of everything else and Unless we want to be left at sea

We do have to keep the anchor which is once again the scripture and so that

that is where the crux of the matter is both historically and.

Scripturally and theologically and we have to go to our final break.

It will be a briefer than the last break if anybody has a question.

And you want to get in line behind the several people still waiting to have their questions asked.

Please shoot in your question via email immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name your city and state and country of residence and only remain anonymous if it's Personal

and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth co -host of Fox and Friends weekend now.

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Welcome back.

Octavio we have another anonymous listener who says I am going to try to convince the elders

of my own church.

To invite you to a speaking engagement there.

I was wondering if that is a possibility.

Are you here in the States?

Are you still in Italy?

And how can this happen?

You can contact

me through my

email

OTTOP at libero .it

In alternative my phone

number.

Great, and if anybody did not have time to write all of that down Just send me an email Chris Arnson at gmail .com and I'll

make sure I get you the information.

And by the way anonymous you have also won a digital Copy of the book that we have been

discussing which is the autobiography of our guest today

from Rome to reformed the confessions of an Italian ex -catholic.

We have another listener.

Who is Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York?

He said have you noticed in your own life any significant differences by

the way Italians live out their Roman Catholic faith and those from other

countries.

From what I have seen and documentaries and other things on television and movies.

It seems that those from South America and the other Latin countries

seem to excel in their idolatry to higher Heights

than Italians do but I may be mistaken about that.

So

everything from Ireland and migrants came from Italy

because the superstition

what

is going on is actually Catholicism is one of those religions that wherever it

goes it tends to be syncretistic in its approach Missiologically, I

would say historically Catholic Yeah, the previous

ruins of the Roman Empire were taking elements of that previous religious text and then

utilizing them for Yes, Christian doctrine, but in the

meantime things get lost, things get compromised so obviously Italy will

be kind of in between I would say an Irish Catholic model or South American model

and I do remember for example when I was in Israel visiting there and Italian

Catholics being actually a little bit shocked in the way that Greek Orthodox Russian Orthodox

were Far more superstitious in their view of their own Italian

Catholics.

But you see this is because again There is more exposure and going back to your

question in American Catholicism There's more exposure to Protestantism so whenever I evangelize

Catholics in America, I find a far greater Bible knowledge or Bible acquaintances and

even in the forms and in the Catholic apologetics that you find for

example online or through books or there will be far greater Appeal to

Protestantism, but notice it is always because of the cultural Surrounding

because as I said in the beginning Catholicism works with whatever the culture does and

Syncretize and in this case paradoxically Syncretizing more Biblical and so

yes, I found far more Bible knowledge.

Yes, I found more Elaborate argumentation in in

North America and Sensitivity towards

Delicate issues, but at the same time I want to I want to declare that there is to

remain the same

And look very quickly

before we run a run out of time one of the.

The biggest defenses that I hear from Roman Catholics whether they are trained

apologists or your average Catholic.

One of the defenses that they hold to that they cling to tenaciously.

They try to defend their veneration of Mary the Saints

and even relics and images.

By saying that this is not worship, but is there really anything different

in the way a Roman Catholic behaves and acts when he

is venerating a person or object and when.

When a person is worshiping the same Person or object is there really a difference.

Isn't it a distinction without?

An actual difference

that we actually are venerating and veneration is different than worship

small little booklet booklets.

But even in the in the Institute's he has a section with the Doctrine of God

where he addressed this very issue and dismantle.

Is it showing that this?

Distinctions of words and I already mentioned earlier often.

This is where many arguments come on.

Oh, but you mean that what we actually don't mean that but in reality that's exactly what you mean

whether you invent a term of idolatry or

more veneration in the Greek.

That doesn't change the issue because so what takes place even from Old Testament.

And all the more if I speak in this chapter of my book of Idolatry, there's a entire

chapter on idolatry.

It is obvious that even the New Testament relies on the Old Testament evidence and

The commandments the second commandment if you look at the Catholic catechism, they have split the last

commandment and completely erase or skip over the commandment on ideology

so We have to wonder if there is a genuine intention here to

actually deal with the issue.

Or is there a way in which we're trying to make sense of our practice?

By going back and pushing it on the Bible same thing with the Mariology, which I think is a big big piece of

Catholic understanding.

Yes, there have been changes.

Yes, there have been times where even the recent Pope wants to clarify that we are actually not

considering Mary as Christ is our only Redeemer.

She's not a co -redeemer.

Yes.

Occasionally he might say this noble statement.

But the overall trend both in tradition and both in the

dogma of Immaculate Conception and the practice.

It shows.

Otherwise it shows again That gradually this is what happens to tradition

gradually things don't get better.

They actually tend to corrupt and this was the case that Jesus first coming where the Pharisees had developed a

religious system that was nullifying the Word of God because of their tradition and so this

same thing can happen in as we deal with with Mariology it is an entire field of

study that again has through the centuries Elevated Mary the mother of Jesus

in so many ways and today currently I speak about my visit

to places where the Virgin Mary appears.

Her claim today to this day as she appears in Medjugorje, Fatima, Lourdes

or other place are claims that first of all puts her.

She's trying to push us away from Christ.

Christ is always noticed depicted as an angry and.

A.

Very very disappointed.

And that's why Mary has come now to appease us and bring us to God and we depend on her.

Which is she's a yes chosen by God.

We just don't want to favors by by the Holy Spirit, but we Obviously don't go

to the extreme of then.

Yeah, making her into something that she never intended to be.

It's a humble servant who calls God my Savior.

What did she have to be saved if she was without.

In fact, we are out of time now brother.

Yes, and I definitely want to have you back on the program to go into a

depth on the Waldensians and What.

Schedule a date as soon as we get off the phone or get off the air here?

I want to thank everybody who listened and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives That Jesus Christ

is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.