August 19, 2021 Show with William F. Hill on “Advice to Young Ministerial Students”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 19th day of August 2020.

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As always I am looking forward to my interview today with someone who has proven to be an excellent guest on this program, someone who

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I love to interview, and he has become a friend and I also share with him many of his convictions even though I am a

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Reformed Baptist and he is a Presbyterian. We do have most things in common and I'm speaking of Pastor Bill Hill.

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He is pastor of Providence Church which is a congregation in the Presbyterian Church in America in Evansville, Indiana, and today we are going to be discussing

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I think a very important theme. Pastor Bill is going to be giving advice to young ministerial students and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Bill Hill.

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It seems like I just talked to you a couple weeks ago actually. Yes, we did I think a fascinating interview on the most recent

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PCA, Presbyterian Church in America General Assembly. Yes, that's correct.

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And if you could make sure your mouth is as close to whatever thing that you're using.

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Yes, well I tried something different this time and maybe it's not the best plan. Yes, I was very saddened as you know.

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This individual will remain nameless, but I was very saddened and surprised that a fellow

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PCA pastor requested that I remove him from my email list promoting

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio because he believed our discussion on the PCA General Assembly was hate speech.

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And that is quite baffling to me how a professing evangelical, a professing subscriber to the

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Westminster Confession of Faith and the Three Forms of Unity, how such an individual could find the belief that homosexuals need to repent and be transformed by Christ in order to be considered worthy of membership in the church and even into the office of a pastor, elder, etc.,

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how that could be considered hate speech. That's kind of chilling in a negative way.

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Well, unfortunately it is the climate in which we live today I think and the church is not immune to these attitudes and it is a sad indictment, frankly, within my own denomination to have those kinds of views being articulated while we continue persevering and trying to be faithful to what

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God's Word plainly teaches on the subject. Yes, I wonder if that same individual believe it's hate speech to urge a heterosexual adulterer to repent and to put aside his sexual proclivity and activity.

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And, you know, I don't even understand it. I can understand it from the left, the open left, obviously.

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But that is not the subject of our topic. Yeah, we could spend the first hour talking about that, but let's not.

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If you could, tell us about Providence Church in Evansville, Indiana. Sure, I'd be glad to.

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I was called and installed as the pastor here in November of 2020.

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Nobody knows that year. It seems like we're living in 2020 part two, but be that as it may,

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I was called to be the pastor in November of 2020, so I've been here, whatever, 10 months, whatever it is.

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And it's a medium -sized PCA church in Evansville, Indiana, the only conservative

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Presbyterian church in the county of about 186 ,000 people. Medium -sized congregation, really great people, servants through and through.

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So it's been really enjoyable. It's not without its ups and downs, but that's ministered a life for you.

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But very thankful to be here. It's really a privilege, actually, to work in the life of the ministry, and especially when you have a congregation that's fairly easy to lead and guide.

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So my wife and I, we're just really excited to be here, looking forward to great things. We're looking for our own building currently, and we've been renting from another church for, well, since I've been here at least that long.

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It's been longer, but now we're in a position to find our own place financially.

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And so we're actively doing that now and hoping that we'll provide something that's suitable for us to put stakes down and grow into and use for His kingdom.

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Well, if anybody wants to find out more about this very important church, which

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I believe, if I'm not mistaken, there are not a whole lot of confessionally

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Reformed churches in your area, are there? No. I believe there's an

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EPC church here, Evangelical Presbyterian Church. Yes.

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I think Evangelical Presbyterian is trying to plant a church in this area.

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But other than those two, if anybody doesn't know,

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Evangelical Presbyterian I think is it's more of a confederation than it is Presbyterian.

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In my opinion, they don't hold as strong a distinction on the sacraments, and I could be wrong about that.

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Are you talking about the Evangelical Presbyterian Church denomination? No, I'm talking about Evangelical Presbyterian.

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Oh. They came out of the PCA as a micro -denomination a couple years ago, something like that.

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I don't know all the facts as to what happened, but anyway, I know that they're here in Evansville and trying to plan a work here, and then there's the

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EPC, Evangelical Presbyterian. Yeah. There you go.

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Thank you. Yes, and I know that they would be very much in harmony with other churches that adhere to the

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Westminster Confession, except they permit the ordination of women, and they believe in, or they are open to, the charismatic sign gifts.

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Yes, I don't even think they're part of NAPART, but I could be wrong about that. I'm actually looking that up right now.

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Well, anyway, we don't want to spend time dissing another denomination. Oh, no,

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I'm not trying to... I actually do have friends in that denomination, as much as I may disagree with those two things

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I mentioned, strongly disagree. But if anybody wants more information on Providence Church in Evansville, Indiana, you can go to ProvidenceChurchEV dot com.

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That's Providence Church E, that's for Evansville, VV, which is also a part of the abbreviation for Evansville, dot com.

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ProvidenceChurchEVV dot com. All right, now tell us about The Parchment. Oh, that place where I spend my time, not as much as I need to.

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It's a website that I started, oh, I don't even remember, many, many years ago.

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It was designed for me to use it as an outlet for my desire to write and do other types of things.

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And so it's been around for a while. It doesn't do much other than I post a daily prayer there, seven days a week, typically, and there's a video of a morning devotional about 10 minutes in length that I'll do

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Monday through Friday. Right now we're working through the Shorter Catechism. So, and then occasionally

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I'll write articles or something to that effect, something that I'm thinking about, like our topic for today.

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And, but now I just don't have the time, it seems, to write as much as I'd like to, other than writing for church -related material for Sunday school or whatever.

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But, so that's just a personal outlet for me.

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And if people would benefit from it, great. If not, well, that's okay, too. And that website is theparchment .net,

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theparchment .net. By the way, we have a listener in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, who asks, why does your guest sound so upset?

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And he's not using, actually, the phrase upset. He's using a more colorful term that goes by the initials

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P as in Peter O. I don't know.

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Well, I think it's largely because you're a New Yorker. It could be,

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I don't know. Yeah, I'm just chilling in my study. By the way, folks,

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I want to give our listeners the email address if you have questions on our main theme, advice to young ministerial students.

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ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Well, why did you initially, what was the catalyst behind you wanting to discuss this theme?

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And I do believe it's a very important theme because so many young people in the 21st century in the faith, who may even be in very conservative biblically orthodox denominations and congregations are going off to either college, bible college or seminary, and they are being deprogrammed from Christianity.

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They are being brainwashed, and some of these leftists and apostates who may even be disguised as Christian professors are actually making headway.

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They're having an impact on the minds and thinking of young Christians and leading them to abandon things that have always been believed by biblically faithful Christians.

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But if you could tell me your specific reason for wanting to discuss this. I don't know if there's any specific reason necessarily.

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I mean, there wasn't any event or something that I could put my finger on necessarily.

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Something I've thought about from time to time, I guess, watching things that happen on social media, perhaps conversations with other ministers about the climate of the church and various aspects related to that, that I think caused me to start thinking more through it.

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I guess things as I reflected back on my time in seminary, even before that, some of the ways in which

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God providentially worked to get me where I am now.

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And so there was just a number of bullet points that I just started jotting down in a note -keeping program that I use that I can just whip out my phone and just start banging out thoughts and with the idea of eventually turning that into some kind of article that may prove helpful or not.

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But as I think about just the issue of ministry,

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I've been in pastorate now coming up on six years. I was a ruling elder for two and a half years prior to that.

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I'm not young. You even entered seminary later in life than the average seminary student, didn't you?

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Yeah, I did. I went to seminary when I was 46 years old, but I would have considered myself, which really feeds into one of the things

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I want to be very clear about here is that when we're talking about a young ministerial student or someone aspiring to that,

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I don't mean age necessarily. While that's generally the makeup of most young men who either go to seminary or take seminary classes, they go from high school to college.

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Maybe there's some employment in between there or during it, and then they go to seminary at, what would it be, 24 or 23, something in that area.

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I'm not speaking necessarily about the age chronologically, but more to the point of just the reality that it is really a world that is foreign,

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I think, to most people don't have a full grasp or maybe understanding of it. It's something you really have to learn in the trenches.

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So I would have considered myself a young ministerial student at 46. It's one thing to watch it happen.

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It's another thing to start training in that direction and start doing it. It's just a huge difference, not to expect it's like that for any occupation, really.

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You learn something in college and then you go do it. It's like, well, that was all theory, but now this is reality. And it's just not always the same.

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So I don't mean young in the sense of age, necessarily. I mean young in the sense of experience or even understanding as to what all of this means and how to best be prepared or equipped to handle what is oftentimes an extremely stressful, stressful job, job calling.

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I say job. It reminds me of a story of a guy I got cast. I got, well, I got rebuked for saying job.

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My job is, you know, I was just using the common term. Everybody has jobs.

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I go to work every day like everybody else. It's just I don't have a boss necessarily staring over my shoulder all the time.

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That's the reason, Chris. It was more of a I just started thinking about it and based on things

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I've read or conversations I've had and so I just started putting some thoughts together that I think maybe could be helpful for either men who are thinking of going to the ministry.

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I actually had a guy contact me, something I posted on Facebook once in this area, and he contacted me and asked me, you know, how would one know that they should pursue the ministry and I just simply told him sit down and talk to your elders first before you do anything.

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But so I guess, you know, with all of that over the course of any number of weeks, it's been percolating in my head.

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And so that's really that's really how it came to be. So I think it was like,

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I don't know what time in the morning, 430, maybe four o 'clock in the morning when I sent you that message. By the way,

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I want to I just want to quick plug your seminary because it's one of the few remaining seminaries that I think that people can have complete confidence in if you are a thoroughgoing confessionally reformed conservative

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Christian. You can have great confidence in either sending your children or if you yourself are the student attending and becoming a part of the student body at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina.

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And that website is GPTS .edu.

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GP for Greenville Presbyterian, TS for Theological Seminary .edu.

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I just thought I'd throw that out there. And by the way, Joey Piper, if you are listening,

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I left a voicemail for you about a week ago hoping that you return as a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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It was a rich pleasure to interview you in the past and it's been far too long. But anyway,

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I'm sorry. Go ahead. Oh, he's probably I think he was out of the country.

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Okay, actually. That's probably why he didn't get a return call. Plus, the semester is about to start too there.

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So I'm sure it's pretty nutty around that place at this point. So I'm sure he'll get back to you.

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Shoot him an email. Yeah, I will do that. But do you agree with my assessment, though?

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That it is a real I mean, it's not like this is anything new. This was this was happening in the late 19th century, where people were hearing about higher criticism and beginning to adopt

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Darwinianism. And and, of course, not long after that, the tragic fundamentalist modernist controversy rose up in the early 20th century.

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So this is nothing new, but the ideas are even more insane and satanic in these days that professing

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Christians are teaching and adopting. Am I right? Yeah, I think that's a it's a problem.

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I don't know that that is necessarily why

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I was thinking about this subject in general. But it is that it is the difficulty with education these days.

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There's more indoctrination in higher education than there is an actual learning and teaching people how to think critically about matters.

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And I mean, we see this all the time now. And frankly,

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I think if I could do it over, I would tell my children, my children to go to trade school.

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What a trade. You know, it's because the climate is so so difficult.

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If if a child going to going to college or university does not is not well -grounded in the

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Christian faith and does not have a solid Christian worldview going in and is able to articulate things, it is going to be a challenge.

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And I mean, obviously, the Christian worldview is the right worldview.

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It's every other worldview follows from the Christian worldview in order to make their arguments. They have to. So that's the whole theory of epistemology.

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But if a young person is not prepared for what they're going to hear and it's it can be it can be very daunting, a daunting task.

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And I grow weary of hearing how we lose our youth after they get out of the church, as it were, they leave their local church, they go off to school and then they come back.

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And well, they've been enlightened now with. Well, things that are contrary to the biblical

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Christian worldview, so. But no, you're right. I mean, that's certainly a problem.

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I think young men who pursue seminary education more in the.

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For lack of a better way of expressing it within a conservative point of view are probably not have not been influenced in that direction, obviously.

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But yeah, no, I think you're right. I think in general, I don't think it happens to everybody, but generally speaking, that is certainly an issue to be very, very aware of and prepare for ahead of time, because it's hard to challenge your professors in the open classroom when you're hearing stuff that are just wrong.

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Well, we have to go to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us, our email address is

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ChrisArnzen at Gmail dot com. ChrisArnzen at Gmail dot com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence.

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If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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In fact, I'll read a question to you from a listener. In fact, I believe it's a first time listener and you could answer it when we come back.

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We have Adam in Edgewood, Maryland, who says, What advice would you give to young men who desire to pursue ministry in a predominantly atheistic country?

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And he gives us an example, the Czech Republic. I'm not sure why, since he lives in Edgewood, Maryland.

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But if you would like to follow up with another email explaining why the

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Czech Republic is of specific interest to you, let us know. But thanks for that question,

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Adam, and we will have Bill answer it when we come back. He says, Go Blue Jays.

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I'm not sure what Toronto, Canada has to do with Edgewood, Maryland or Czech Republic either.

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I'm trying to think if I know this person because I'm obviously a big Yankee fan.

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And so he's rubbing it in by saying, Go Blue Jays. I didn't mean to ring a bell, but if they know me and whatever.

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OK, fine. Go Blue Jays. But if they go Red Sox. OK, well, if anybody else wants to join us, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

25:41

If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

25:47

Don't go away. We'll be right back. I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

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My friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once again for the

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G3 conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme

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Christ is supreme over all. I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and singing, including

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For details, visit G3conference .com. That's G3conference .com. Chris Arnson and I hope to see you

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September 30th through October 2nd at G321. This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Welcome back.

36:14

This is Chris Arnson. If you just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, our guest for the entire program today is

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Bill Hill, who is pastor of Providence Church, a PCA congregation in Evansville, Indiana, and we are discussing

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Pastor Hill's advice to young ministerial students. If you have a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

36:39

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

36:49

Adam, the questioner that I cited right before the break, who is from Maryland, he explained in further detail why he has a specific interest in the

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Czech Republic. He says, I've had a desire to pursue pastoral ministry since I started to repent and believe in the gospel.

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I've always had a love for my heritage. So I'm assuming he's speaking of Czechoslovakia.

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So it made sense that love for my people and a love for sharing the gospel would merge.

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Pastor Hill and I spoke a few times in person at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

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I'm not the most memorable person, but I think I'm the only student who has had a heart for the

37:36

Czechs. I thought that might have helped his memory. So if you want to give him any advice there.

37:45

I don't know the background. One of the nice things about being in the

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PCA has a very robust... Brother, could you go back closer to the mic again or with the phone, whatever you use?

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Right on top of me. Oh, really? Yeah, you sound kind of distant. I don't know why. Maybe that's why

38:04

I sound angry. Which I'm not, actually. I know you always sound angry, even when you're happy.

38:13

I know that. Oh, come on now. Boy. Anyway, one of the nice things about the

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PCA, and I don't know what his church background is, is that the PCA has a very robust mission to the world.

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And we have missionaries in all the countries across the planet.

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And obviously, if that's something you have a burden for, I would certainly seek, obviously, counsel from your elders.

38:48

If it's something you want to do... I think he is primarily addressing the atheist part, not the

38:56

Czech part. What kind of advice would you give to any ministerial student or somebody even intending to become a missionary, where the majority of people around them are atheists?

39:09

You might even include New York City in that. If there are any Reformed people out there who are interested in church planting,

39:18

New York City is a barren wasteland, except for a handful of solidly

39:24

Reformed churches there. It's amazing to me that a city so large and so heavily populated would have such a small percentage of confessionally

39:35

Reformed churches. But having said that, any advice when it comes to a person desiring to pursue atheists as a mission field is basically,

39:45

I think, what he's saying in summary. Yes. I would find somebody who's actually worked in that field and glom off them as much as you can, because I don't have a whole ton of experience in that.

40:00

I mean, obviously, I run into unbelievers all the time, but I can't say that I've ever been in a situation where it's been so dramatically obvious that they just denied the very existence of God, which is absurd, because everybody knows he's not existent.

40:12

I'm a presuppositionalist. But I've never really been confronted with that kind of environment.

40:20

And so I would just say, find somebody who has been, who maybe has done that already or is even doing it now, and just pick their brain for as much as you can get, because it's certainly a unique challenge.

40:34

I don't know anything about the Czech Republic. I don't know any of the demographics. I would say, if you're intending to go to seminary, apologetics are going to be very important to have that solid foundation, which you can then demonstrate to people who say they're atheists, because there's really no such thing.

40:59

But you can show them why they're really not atheists in the first place.

41:07

But not having any experience in that area is probably the best I've got.

41:13

Yes, and I know personally, because we have listeners in Ukraine, which was formerly a part of the

41:25

Iron Curtain and the USSR, and Christianity is beginning to grow and spread there, and there might even be some of my listeners from Ukraine who could give you some counsel in that regard.

41:43

There are even reformed satellite teaching groups.

41:51

I don't know if they're at quite the seminary level. They may be. I just don't remember right now. But I know that my friend, for instance,

41:58

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, at one time, anyway, was annually making trips to Ukraine to teach.

42:07

So, obviously, when it comes to God and His sovereignty, nothing is without hope.

42:15

He has brought revival in formerly atheistic countries, or predominantly atheistic countries in the past, and he could do it again.

42:26

But anyway, thanks so much, Adam, for writing in, and since you are a first -time questioner,

42:31

I believe, please give me your full mailing address in Maryland, Edgewood, Maryland, so that CVBBS .com,

42:42

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, can ship to you a free New American Standard Bible, complements of the publishers of the

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NASB, and I want to thank, by the way, Pike Lambeth, the Executive Director of the

42:56

Lachman Foundation, who publish the New American Standard Bible. I want to thank them so much for just recently, a few days ago, renewing their advertising contract.

43:07

We depend upon them very much for our existence. All right, but now, let me give you seven minutes to at least get the ball rolling on what you originally attended as your counsel and advice to young ministerial students, before we go to our midway break.

43:27

Yeah, I think the first thing to ascertain, for anybody who has contemplated the ministry, and this has been historically agreed upon issue, or the

43:42

Apostle Paul in 1 Timothy 3 says that the saying is trustworthy if anyone aspires of the office of overseer, he desires the noble path.

43:51

And so, the desire itself is important. Obviously, most of us act out on our desires anyway.

43:58

We typically don't choose food at a restaurant that we don't like. We choose food that we desire, we like, we enjoy.

44:06

So, the desire itself is a good thing, and that has usually been categorized as a single call to the ministry.

44:14

But that itself is not enough to move any man into the actual work of the ministry itself.

44:25

And there's the outward call in which the people of God see and understand that there's true gifts of the

44:32

Holy Spirit in that man that the Spirit is calling him to the work of the ministry.

44:38

So, there's two aspects to this, and I think if any young man is listening and has some inclination towards a call to the ministry, maybe he's not in seminary right now, but he's thinking about going, that's good.

44:52

But I would sit down with your elders, and I would have that conversation with them.

44:59

Let them then evaluate you, that you work with you, which they should do.

45:06

That was my experience. I was very thankful to be in a strong church with very godly elders.

45:15

Found out, I don't know how they found out, but they found out that I had some inclination to the ministry, and so they put me through a whole bunch of things and sat me down and had lengthy conversations, and it was all useful because had they said to me, you know,

45:32

Bill, you probably should wait, or you don't really see it. You shouldn't just lightly dismiss that as, well, they don't know what you're talking about.

45:41

They've been charged with the care of your soul. They're not saying this lightly. So, I would start there.

45:46

If any man has some desire to do that, I would say have that conversation with your elders. Now, if they agree that you should pursue the ministry, then it becomes a question of, okay, so how are we going to do this?

46:00

Am I going to go to seminary? Am I not going to go to seminary? Am I going to do distance education? And in our world today, there's different options.

46:08

Now, I'll give you my personal opinion. Nothing I say is infallible, except when I read the Bible. I would encourage most men who want to pursue the ministry to go to seminary.

46:22

I don't mean go to seminary in your living room. I mean go. Physically move to the location and immerse yourself in the three or four years there, because there's more to seminary training than just taking classes.

46:39

There's a whole bunch of things that are going on that you're not going to read about in the catalog.

46:47

There's the example of your professors. There's informal conversations with them multiple times throughout the time you're at seminary.

46:58

There's the discussions offline with other students. There's the discussions in the classroom that you generally don't get when you do it by distance.

47:07

There's just a lot of benefits, far more benefits, I think. Those outweigh the plan that often comes from the distance program, because you're basically listening to lectures, taking notes, taking the exams, and getting that class behind you.

47:27

While that's all important, the idea is to learn and interact and have a solid understanding of the material that you're working through, because those are the kinds of things you're going to be dealing with on a day -to -day basis.

47:40

You don't pastor your church by distance. You pastor your church face -to -face with real people in real time.

47:47

And so I am more of an advocate. I'm not suggesting that distance education for seminaries is wrong.

47:55

I know there are some men who have done it that way, some are friends of mine, but I would say that that's the exception, not the rule.

48:03

The other thing, too, about going to seminary is that you learn to live on the ragged edge. You learn to live pretty much week -to -week.

48:10

It's a stressful time. It's not always enjoyable, but at the same time, it's really part of the preparation not just the classes, but the entire experience that, at least in my experience,

48:24

I've benefited from greatly. And I started as a distance teacher. For one year, I took classes by distance at Greenville.

48:32

I wasn't benefiting at all, and I knew it. And so I determined to move. My wife and I, my kids were grown, and they were off living their lives.

48:40

We moved to Greenville, South Carolina, Virginia. And when I got there, I started over. That whole first year,

48:47

I pretty much chunked because I didn't really believe that I benefited much from just sitting behind a computer screen listening to somebody lecture.

48:59

And so I do think it's important. It's not the only way I realized, but I think you get far more out of it if you're actually on campus.

49:11

So an inward call is good. Speak with your elders. Hear what they have to say.

49:18

And then ask them, if you think I should go to the seminary, where do you think

49:23

I should go? Now, when I was given the green light by my elders to go to seminary, they didn't give me a choice.

49:29

They told me I was going to Greenville. That was it. Now, I wanted to go to Greenville anyway, so it wasn't much of a conflict, of course.

49:39

But it's important to listen to those men. They've been charged with the care of your soul. And so listen to them, because it's that important.

49:50

It's not a decision that we take lightly. You're not just going out and deciding what car to buy.

49:57

This is vitally important work that needs to be taken that seriously. So that just gets us going,

50:05

Chris. But I think that's a good place to stop if you have any questions. Yeah, what

50:11

I'm going to do, since we are entering into the time when we have to go to our midway break,

50:17

I'm going to ask you another question and have you answer it when we come back. We have an anonymous listener who says, what do you say to an individual who really has a desire to go to seminary and to become trained for the ministry when his own elders do not want him to leave the congregation?

50:44

They want him to rely on the education and training that is available in the local church.

50:51

And they do not want this person to depart for formal education for degrees and so on, because they believe he is of too much value in the congregation.

51:04

And we'll have you answer that question when we come back. Our email address, if you have any questions of your own, if you want to get in line, is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

51:15

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

51:22

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Please be patient with us as this is our longer than normal break in the middle of the show, because Grace Life Radio, who airs this program, is compelled by the

51:37

FCC to localize Iron Trump and Zion Radio geographically to Lake City, Florida with their own public service announcements and other local things that they air in the middle of the show, while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

51:56

So, please be patient with us as we do that, and also please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can, so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.

52:12

We hope that many of you will buy our advertisers' products, use their services, visit their churches, and support their parachurch organizations.

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But when you cannot do those things, please, at the very least, simply reply to the ads with whatever contact information they provide, and thank them for sponsoring

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Iron Trump and Zion Radio. We need our advertisers to exist, folks. Some of you complain about the frequency of ads in the show, but we will not exist without them.

52:43

We depend 100 % on the funding provided by our advertisers, in addition, of course, primarily through the sovereign grace of God, and also our generous donors and benefactors who donate to the program.

53:00

But we can't exist without our ads, folks. So, please respond to them, at the very least, by thanking them.

53:07

And send in your questions to chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away.

53:13

We'll be right back after these messages. Hello, dear ones, my name is

53:23

Justin Peters, and my friend, Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the

53:34

United States. We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th, through Saturday, October the 2nd, on the theme,

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For details, visit g3conference .com. That's G, the number three, conference .com.

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Please join Chris Arnson and me, September 30th, through October the 2nd, at G3 2021.

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This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the

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Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio and thanks for listening. We are excited to announce another new member of the

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In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this.

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I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.

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He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what

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God has designed and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

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When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be very serious.

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Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not add up in praise to our great

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God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

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Good to be back. Chris, I always enjoy our time. You, I have to say, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.

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Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

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We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself.

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that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. That's a very important element so that they are aware of how successful their advertisements are on this show.

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Also, folks, I want to thank all of you who have been sending in via email and text your condolences for or to me and my family after the loss of my oldest brother

01:07:42

John, who entered into eternity with Christ yesterday, yesterday morning at 76 years old, after a long bout with critical stage emphysema and a more recent bout with cancer and an inoperable aneurysm and COVID and pneumonia.

01:08:06

I cannot explain in the English language, according to my limited vocabulary, how grateful

01:08:15

I am to you and how grateful to God I am for you, especially those who have been reassuring me that they believe as well that my brother is in eternity with Christ because of the profession

01:08:32

I shared with them that my brother made in writing last month, assuring me that he was turning to Christ every single day, asking forgiveness for his sins, and asking him, whenever God were to take him, that he would take him into his arms so that he could worship him gloriously for eternity.

01:09:02

I just thank God that my brother did tell me that in writing last month.

01:09:10

And the reassurance I've been having from Christians I uphold as being very biblically knowledgeable and as being champions for Christ, for them to be sharing with me the encouragement that they believe my brother is in glory, has been extremely helpful.

01:09:30

Hence, you could probably detect a lilt in my voice today, a measure of peace and even joy in my voice today that was not necessarily evident yesterday when my brother passed or entered into eternity is a better phrase, entered into eternity with Christ.

01:09:54

So thank all of you who have been praying. I ask of you to continue praying for me and my family and my sister -in -law,

01:10:03

Jan, who is John's widow, his two daughters,

01:10:08

Regina and Patrice, and his two sons,

01:10:15

Eric and John and myself.

01:10:27

So I just thank you all and can never thank you enough.

01:10:32

Also, folks, if you are a man in ministry leadership,

01:10:38

I urge you, if you are capable of getting to Carlisle, Pennsylvania on Monday, September 27th,

01:10:45

I am having my next Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon featuring a speaker whom

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I believe, and I am not exaggerating or flattering this man, which

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I believe would be sin if I were to do so, I believe this man is the most powerful preacher alive on the planet

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Earth. His name is Dr. Conrad Mbewe. He is pastor of Kibwata Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, which is a confessionally reformed

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Baptist church. He is the founding chancellor of African Christian University, and he also happens to be

01:11:17

Votie Baucom's pastor. He is going to be speaking at my next pastor's luncheon from 11 a .m.

01:11:24

to 2 p .m. on Monday, September 27th here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania at the Bongiorno Conference Center.

01:11:31

It's absolutely free of charge. There is not even anything for sale there. Every year going back to the 1990s, major Christian publishers from all over the

01:11:43

United States and the United Kingdom have been donating books that I select from their catalogs for free so that every man in attendance at these luncheons can receive a copy of one of these titles.

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So every man leaves with a heavy sack of books, dozens of books, brand new, absolutely free.

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The entire afternoon is free food, free spiritual nourishment, and free books, and a free time of fun, fellowship, feasting, rest, relaxation, and refreshment.

01:12:21

This was all the brainchild of my precious late wife Julie back in the 1990s, who came up with the idea of treating my pastor friends to lunch every year where we would have a guest speaker and have free gifts, and she always insisted, don't you dare ever have an ulterior motive or a hidden agenda or sell anything.

01:12:46

Don't be trying to convince people to sign up for Amway or anything else.

01:12:52

No offense to Amway salesmen, but my precious wife, my dear late wife, who is in glory with Christ, she insisted that there be no hidden agenda, and it was to be an entire day of treating men in ministry with a gift of this day for their labors, in exchange, or in gratitude is a better word, for their labors as ministers of the gospel.

01:13:23

So if you are a man in ministry leadership and would like to attend this event, merely email me at chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:13:32

chrisarnson at gmail .com and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line.

01:13:39

I look forward to hearing from you and your free registration. Also folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please,

01:13:50

I'm urging you to go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

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We are in urgent need of your donations, folks. The coronavirus pandemic hysteria has hurt us financially in a big way, because many in our audience have been hurt financially in a big way.

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Some people who used to give, give less, and some people do not give at all any longer.

01:14:38

And let me quickly say, I thank all of you in the audience who have been giving all the way back since 2005, when we first launched the show, and those who are giving more recently, some for the first time.

01:14:55

I can never explain to you how deeply grateful I am to God for you.

01:15:02

Your gifts have been necessary in addition to our advertisers to keep this show on the air.

01:15:07

Thank you so much. Don't ever think I underestimate or underappreciate you. I appreciate you enormously.

01:15:16

And I ask of your forgiveness if I don't make that clear enough. But thank you.

01:15:21

But if you have never given, and yet listen to the show regularly, please.

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01:16:02

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01:16:08

A primary reason was to be a friend, a platform, a helping hand, an extension, and an outreach from the local pastors and the local churches.

01:16:21

I never want to do anything that harms or hinders the local pastor and local church, including financially.

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Those two things are commands of God and Scripture, providing for your church and providing for your family. Providing for my radio show is not a command of God, obviously.

01:16:53

But if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, you have money in the bank collecting interest, you have money for recreational and trivial purposes, please, if you love this show and don't want to disappear, share some of that money with us.

01:17:10

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01:17:17

Also, if you are not a member of a local Bible believing church, I have extensive lists of biblically faithful, theologically sound churches all over the world, and I've helped many people in our audience find churches in all parts of the globe, sometimes within just a couple of minutes from their own homes.

01:17:35

I may be able to help you too if you send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line, chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:17:43

and put I need a church in the subject line. That is also the email address where you could send a question to Pastor William Hill of Providence Church in Evansville, Indiana, and we are discussing

01:17:59

Pastor Hill's advice to young ministerial students. And again, the email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:18:07

You may recall, Pastor Bill, that before the break, an anonymous listener wanted to know what to do when his own elders, they may be biblically faithful and theologically sound men, but they may be discouraging a person from leaving the congregation, going to seminary.

01:18:27

Now obviously, I'm assuming you don't have a cookie cutter answer because there may be reasons for that, that maybe the person can't afford seminary and the church can't afford to send them.

01:18:37

It may be that some of the elders are thoroughly knowledgeable in Hebrew and Greek and Aramaic and are capable of training a member for the pastoral ministry.

01:18:53

There are multiple reasons, but sometimes, I mean obviously on an extreme, it could be selfishness.

01:19:00

They don't want to lose somebody that they view as valuable. Not that that is necessarily selfish, but it can be selfish.

01:19:08

And you do also, to add to what our anonymous listener is asking, there are some churches more bent towards the fundamentalist realm who don't even believe in seminary.

01:19:20

And of course, last but not least, we all have to admit, even though I know

01:19:26

Presbyterian denominations typically insist that a seminary degree is required for ordination, we have to admit that that is not a biblical command.

01:19:38

But having said all that I said, why don't you give your own advice to this individual? Yeah, Chris, I'll do the best

01:19:46

I can because as you've already pointed out, there are many, if I had this individual in front of me, there's many questions

01:19:53

I would probably ask before I venture to even give up any kind of comment.

01:20:06

So, let's just take the issue of the elder selfish and they just don't want to let the person go because they're mean -spirited.

01:20:16

Let's just take that off the table and we'll assume that that's not the case. I would advise the person to ask, you know, what is, you know, specific reasons as to their thinking on the subject and, you know, heed that very carefully.

01:20:34

I, you know, again, I think the best course of action for any young man, any man who wants to pursue the ministry is to go to seminary.

01:20:42

I think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. But, and that's just my opinion, I know friends of mine who disagree with me, that's fine.

01:20:50

But with that said, if they are equipped to give you a robust theological training, including the original languages, then, you know, you need to weigh that very carefully.

01:21:04

I mean, there could be circumstances, the man that wrote, the young man that, young, old,

01:21:10

I don't know, wrote the question, you know, married with 12 kids, you know, there could be many factors that I don't have any way of knowing over this medium to explore with him.

01:21:24

So, but I would just urge him to listen carefully to those men because the

01:21:31

Lord's going to hold them accountable for the advice they give. And if they're worth anything as elders, they know that.

01:21:40

And they're going to then give the best counsel, and they should be giving the best perfectly considered counsel to any young man in the church who wants to go to the ministry, or go to seminary.

01:21:54

So again, that's the best I can do, not knowing lots of things, as you've highlighted.

01:22:04

Thank you, Anonymous. And if you are a first -time questioner, please give us your full name off the air, of course, through an email.

01:22:13

I won't divulge this information, obviously. Give us your full name, your full address, and you will receive a free

01:22:22

New American Standard Bible, compliments of the publishers of the NASB, who just renewed their advertising contract with us.

01:22:30

And also, thanks to our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cbbbs .com, who ship out all of our winners, the books and questions to us, at no charge to our listeners or to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:22:47

Thank you, cbbbs .com. Do you have another point of advice that you'd like to give?

01:22:55

I do. Okay, go ahead. The next thing I would say, outside of just recognizing the inward and outward call, and relying on the observation and counsel of men charged by the

01:23:09

Lord to watch over a young man who may believe he's called to the gospel ministry is, and I cannot stress this enough, this is one of the areas that I think is a trap for some young men, especially young men who read a lot, who are knowledgeable, who listen to sermons, listen to lectures, listen to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, you know, whatever.

01:23:39

There's a plethora of information out there in the world today, but I would just strongly encourage any young man who's pursuing the ministry or wants to go to seminary but not there yet, but is in seminary right now, always try to remain teachable.

01:23:55

There's always somebody who knows more than you, and there are lots of people in my life that know far more than I do.

01:24:02

And so you're never going to stop learning, you're never going to ever really leave seminary, even after you graduate from seminary.

01:24:10

In fact, one of my professors said after he graduated, now the real learning begins.

01:24:16

And so it's vitally important, especially in seminary, to stay teachable. Always try to keep that attitude in front of you.

01:24:23

You don't know everything, and you're never going to know everything. And it reminds me of what my professor asked me after my first year of seminary.

01:24:32

He asked me, what did you learn in your first year? And I looked at him and I said,

01:24:39

I learned that I don't know as much as I thought I did. And that is exactly what

01:24:44

I learned. And I went to seminary at 46 years old, I was in the Reformer days for 25 years. Before I went to seminary,

01:24:51

I read as many Puritan books as I could get my hands on, I read as many theological books as I could get my hands on,

01:24:56

I was a sponge. And then I got to seminary and I was like, oh my,

01:25:03

I don't know anything. And I don't tell that story as if I was some great, wonderful guy.

01:25:11

It was just the truth. I felt completely inept and stupid. And I still feel that way most of the time.

01:25:19

So I think it's important just to remain teachable to men who are smarter than you, have done this before, which really leads to the next point, and that is listen carefully to those who have done this before.

01:25:33

When I was in seminary, I had the privilege of getting to know a man who had labored in the

01:25:42

OPC and the PCA and ministered for 40 years. And he would give me unsolicited advice on a regular basis.

01:25:52

And I was fine with that. And I valued tremendously from just getting to know the man.

01:25:58

I mean, going out to dinner with him, sitting in his living room, talking about life in general. It was a seminary education in itself.

01:26:07

And so I would encourage any young man, anybody who wants to pursue the ministry or who's currently laboring in that direction, find somebody like that, that you can learn from, who is willing to invest their time into your life because you will benefit tremendously going forward.

01:26:25

One of the things that this man would tell me, and I can still hear him saying it, as I would be griping about something or some problem or some issue, he would say,

01:26:36

Bill, Bill, more prayer. Pray more. More prayer.

01:26:41

He would say that all the time. And I've benefited from that advice. I know it's simple advice, but when you're in the throes of the ministry, it's easy to forget to stop and just pray about the matters that are in front of you.

01:26:55

And so find someone like that. They're out there and they have way more experience than you do.

01:27:01

Listen to what they have to say. I know I greatly benefited from it during my time at Greenville.

01:27:10

The other thing that's really kind of practical, I think, especially for men who are in seminary right now, plan your week.

01:27:18

Be diligent about your schedule. Map it out. I'm a very organized person.

01:27:24

That's just the way I'm wired. And so I write out everything I need to do every week and I have a plan of attack.

01:27:32

But map out your week. You're going to have more to do than you have time. So if you don't have a plan,

01:27:41

I guarantee you're going to get to the end of the semester and you're going to be way behind and you're not going to be prepared for finals or papers due.

01:27:50

So plan ahead. Be diligent. That will carry you. If you learn to do that in seminary, that will benefit you tremendously in the ministry because you never know what's going to happen day to day, week to week.

01:28:01

And sermons got to get written. People have to be visited. Class, Sunday school classes have to be taught.

01:28:08

There's lots to do. And then there's the surprises. The phone calls remember the crisis and then someone in the church passes away or some other issue.

01:28:18

You never know what's going to come. So if you don't have a game plan every week, you haven't formed a habit of planning your schedule in your week, you will get to the end of the week in total panic mode because Sunday is coming.

01:28:33

No matter what happens between the Sundays, Sunday is coming and a sermon has to be preached.

01:28:42

And you're not going to just get up there and wing it, I hope. So be diligent with your time.

01:28:48

Everybody's afforded the same amount of time every week, regardless of what job they have. We all get 168 hours and we're all accountable for how we use that time.

01:28:58

So use it well. Plan carefully. Want me to keep going?

01:29:05

Oh, sure. I mean, I do have some people who are waiting for their questions to be asked, but if you are on, if you're on a roll, go ahead.

01:29:11

No, I'm fine. Okay. We have another anonymous listener who said,

01:29:17

I heard of your love of baseball earlier in the program. I am a fellow fan, but the problem with being a fan of baseball and being a

01:29:28

Sabbatarian is that you miss out on a lot and you have an added temptation to consume your time on a

01:29:37

Sunday after worship with viewing baseball and other sporting events.

01:29:42

I was wondering how you view the Sabbath and if refraining from watching something like baseball is a part of that.

01:29:51

And most importantly, when it comes to ministerial students, I know of many who pack their

01:29:58

Sundays after worship service with study. Is that proper? As noble as that may be?

01:30:05

Yeah, that's a great question. No, I don't watch baseball on the Lord's day. I'm a strict, strict adherent to the fourth commandment.

01:30:13

I'm not going to tell you that I don't ever get tempted to watch. And that just reveals the worldliness that still remains in my own black heart.

01:30:21

But, but, but as a rule, I have made it a practice during baseball season, not to watch baseball on the

01:30:29

Lord's day. I'll get the score in the morning. It's not the end of the world if I miss one game. It's harder during playoffs, admittedly, but now more to the point,

01:30:42

I would encourage ministerial students not to study on the Lord's day. That's your job.

01:30:48

That's what you do, generally speaking, day in and day out. That's why you're in seminary.

01:30:55

That's your job. And I do believe that if you honor the Lord's day, the

01:31:00

Lord will honor you and he'll multiply the time you spend between the Sundays in providing you're being diligent and disciplined with your time.

01:31:10

You're not wasting time. He'll bless that because he blesses his word.

01:31:16

He blesses his commands as we seek to honor them. He will bless your efforts.

01:31:22

And I would say, no, I didn't do it during seminary and it was tempting, but again, that's just because I'm still worldly.

01:31:33

But I would encourage people not to do that on the Lord's day. That's something they have to wrestle with,

01:31:38

I realize. But now that's an interesting area.

01:31:45

Would you differentiate between a seminary student writing a paper on the

01:31:53

Lord's day after a worship service and studying? Because in some sense,

01:31:59

I'm sure you would not find fault with any Christian. He's hearing a sermon. He's hearing something perhaps that has sparked an interest in something in a text that he's never seen before.

01:32:11

And he begins after service is over to open up his Bible, open up a lexicon, open up other helpful aids, confessions, and so forth.

01:32:24

And he begins to study commentaries and so forth, begins to study on the

01:32:30

Lord's day. I would be hard pressed to find fault with the average

01:32:36

Christian doing that. So why would a student be, in your opinion, prohibited from doing that?

01:32:44

And that's why I asked, is there a difference between actually writing a paper that's due and just studying?

01:32:53

Yeah. Well, I don't see much distinction between studying and writing a paper. It's impossible to write a paper without reading and studying other people.

01:33:01

But the reason I say that, and I realize people are going to disagree with this, and that's fine, but it's because that's your job.

01:33:11

That's what you do all week long. And one of the principles of the fourth commandment is that we come away from our normal worldly employments and recreations, and we give the whole day to the worship of God, both public and private, and utilize it for acts of necessity and mercy.

01:33:30

And so this is what I do on Tuesday. This is what I do on Wednesday. This is what I do on Thursday.

01:33:35

This is what I do all week long. Now I come to Sunday, and I have to use that too, because either

01:33:41

I didn't plan my week very carefully or whatever the case may be, but I chose not to do that.

01:33:51

You need a break, and when you're in seminary, you're going to need a break. And it's good to have that day that you're not thinking about that paper, and you're not thinking about that book you've got to read, and you're not thinking about that exam that's coming up.

01:34:04

You need a break. Everybody needs a break. And so utilize it. Just know that it's coming, so you've got six days to do your work.

01:34:13

But on the seventh day, the worst day, you're going to set it aside. Thank you,

01:34:19

Anonymous. Once again, if you are a first -time questioner, give us your mailing address so that cvbbs .com

01:34:27

can ship you a free New American Standard Bible. Do you have another word of advice before I go to another listener question?

01:34:36

Sure. This is on the subject of reading. As your advertiser, you advertise for a company that sells good

01:34:46

Christian books. I've been in that bookstore, by the way. It's fantastic. And my wife hates it when

01:34:51

I go in there, because, well, I just can't resist. I gotta buy something, you know.

01:34:59

There's lots to read out there in the world. There are books on everything. But I would encourage young men pursuing the ministry to spend time.

01:35:12

I know you're thinking, oh, when am I supposed to go through the poem? I don't have the time. Well, you have the Lord's Day. It's not seminary training.

01:35:19

This is just reading. It's different. You know, spend time reading guys that are dead.

01:35:28

It's not to say that the guys that are living are, but my point is this.

01:35:35

Some of the best preachers in the world were produced from the 18th and 19th centuries. Some of the best preachers we ever heard in our lives.

01:35:42

Read their sermons. Immerse yourself in what they have put down. I think you'll benefit far and away more than glomming on to the new fad within Christendom.

01:35:56

Reading some book on the latest controversy, you'll feed your soul while you're doing it, and your vocabulary will increase.

01:36:07

It can't help but increase. You will benefit tremendously if you immerse yourself more in those guys than the newfangled things that come down the pipe.

01:36:18

Now, I'm not saying don't read the books that get published in 2021. I do.

01:36:25

I also have more time to do that than the average person, but the point I'm making is when you look at your reading list, let the balance of it be in the old guys.

01:36:36

The Puritans of old. They have stood the test of time. Yes, and there's a reason why they're still being published.

01:36:45

There's a reason why they're still being printed, and so immerse yourself in them. You will profit tremendously as you carefully work through those volumes.

01:36:59

They're all available. You can get them in, you know, just about anywhere, and I can give recommendations.

01:37:07

I'm working through a book right now, Grace and Glory by Sermons by Gerardus Vos. They're tremendous.

01:37:13

I thought to myself, nobody preaches like this guy today, and that's probably a good thing in some sense, but it's just the depth of knowledge and the richness of the sermon and the insight about what he says, and it's tremendous, and so I would strongly encourage guys to just think more about having at least one book in your rotation that's something from old

01:37:39

Princeton or the Puritans, um, Reads Virgin Sermons.

01:37:46

They're widely available. Some of them are in public domain. You can just print them off the internet, but put your energies there.

01:37:55

Don't worry about this Newfangled stuff. You'll get to that eventually, but get the solid foundation in front built before you press on to some of this controversy or Newfangled.

01:38:08

Everybody loves controversy, but uh, well, I got no sweat on that one.

01:38:15

Yeah, I think there's a reason why the majority, not all, but the majority of books, for instance, that my sponsor solid -ground -books .com

01:38:26

and also Banner of Truth, uh, they primarily reprint the older works because they are about timeless issues rather than current controversies that may not be applicable to all ages, and, um, and I'm not saying...

01:38:47

No, you're right. I was, I was reading a sermon the other day, um, I can't remember the book it was, what was, uh, it's a new book, new publication, but not new in material put out by Banner, but anyway, the sermon,

01:39:02

I thought to myself, this guy could have preached this sermon today because he was talking about what will happen to the church if we do not heed these instructions right now, and this was written in the, uh, early 1900s, and I thought, wow, he was right.

01:39:19

It's really a timeless thing. You mentioned solid ground books. I'm holding in my hand the works of, one of the works of, volumes of the works of Thomas Manton that they put out.

01:39:29

Yeah. I mean, you cannot beat these guys at all. They are tremendous, and they will give you such a concrete foundation that you'll read some new guy, and you'll be like, what?

01:39:42

What are you talking about? And so, it's really valuable. Now, I'm not disparaging the new guys. I read new guys.

01:39:47

Yeah, those are, the new guys are 99 % of my guests. Right. Well, I'm reading, like, uh,

01:39:53

Joel Beattie's Reform Systematic Theology. Right, right. I'm reading that right now. It's, that's a new book, but Joel Beattie obviously is immersed in, you know,

01:40:02

Puritan reading. He's scholarly. He's knowledgeable. He's solid. I'm not afraid of him, um, so I can read it.

01:40:11

So, I'm not saying don't ever read anybody that is still alive, but I'm saying look at your reading list and ask yourself, what am

01:40:18

I giving my time to mostly? And if it's mostly the newfangled stuff, put that over.

01:40:25

Grab a Puritan volume and start working through it. Read something from Owen. Banner's got the

01:40:31

Puritan paperbacks. Read those. Um, you'll benefit far and away more than, uh,

01:40:38

I think anything else. You mentioned Gerhardus Voss before. I remember, uh, I interviewed

01:40:44

Danny Olinger years ago on my old show when I was broadcasting out of New York, uh, on his, uh,

01:40:52

Gerhardus Voss anthology. I'm assuming it's still in print, but, uh,

01:40:57

I would urge people to look up where they can get a copy of that, even if it's out of print. And I should get

01:41:04

Danny back on the show as well. Um, we have to go back.

01:41:10

We have to go to our final break right now, and it's a lot shorter than the other breaks.

01:41:16

So, please, if you have a question, send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

01:41:23

is our email address. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, city and state of residence and country of residence.

01:41:33

We'll be right back. Don't go away. Back together again, yeah.

01:41:41

Back together again, yeah. Hi, I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

01:41:53

I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, for the

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Visit anchoredintruth .org. I'm Dr.

01:49:02

Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

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Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word and to enthusiastically proclaim

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Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

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For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

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That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711.

01:50:09

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

01:50:34

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

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Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

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Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.

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Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

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Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

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For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

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That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.

01:51:37

That's liyfc .org. Welcome back, and Pastor Bill Hill, do you have another piece of advice or would you like me to a listener question?

01:51:59

Why don't you do your listener, of course. We have B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who says,

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I know an older gentleman who is desirous of entering into more formal training for ministerial preparation, including seminary education, and I was wondering what could you say to prepare an older person who is considering this venture?

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Yeah, since that's what I did, well, I mean, all those things

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I've said previously would still apply, right? So, give counsel and wisdom from men that are over you in the

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Lord. Age is not an issue with that. Evaluate your desire, your reasons why one would want to pursue the ministry, even at that age.

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Um, I had an inward call to the ministry when I was in my early 20s. The Lord didn't see fit to put me in seminary until I was 46.

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So, took 25 years, almost. That's about the age that my very dear friend, now in eternity with Christ, Dr.

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Robert J. Cameron, he was a black brother who was a pastor in first the

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Reformed Episcopal Church, then the PCA, then the OPC, and he owned,

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I believe, it was a trucking business that when he retired and sold the business, he went into seminary in his late 40s, possibly even early 50s.

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Yeah, and I think there's some advantage to that, Chris, to be perfectly honest. I mean, again, there's exceptions to everything, well, nearly everything, including that statement.

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But there's something to be said about an older man as an elder in the Church, whether he's formally the minister of the

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Church or he's serving as a ruling elder in our context as Presbyterians. Because of life experience, there's a great deal of value that you can bring to the equation that, you know, it's just something that you have to learn through living.

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And I have found that that's been a benefit for me because seminary only is basic training.

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I mean, that's really what it is. It's basic training. And not until you actually get in the bitches and the throes of ministerial life, until when it really becomes something you start learning even more so how to handle various issues and concerns and problems.

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So, if you have a tremendous amount of life experience for an older gentleman who's seeking the ministry, you can draw on that in many ways, and it will benefit you as you seek the

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God of Church. People are people. And so,

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I think it's a good thing. It's not the only way. Obviously, we have young men in the ministry, and the

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Lord's blessing their work, and that's great. But I think there's something to be said about being able to draw on 30 years of working in the world, knowing what your people deal with day after day, what they go through, what they wrestle with.

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You've been there. You understand it. You've felt it. You get it. And the connection,

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I think, is just different with the people in the fields. Now, was there any level of discomfort being or seeming to be out of place, surrounded by people much younger, possibly even young enough to be your children or grandchildren, that you had to overcome?

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Or were you just comfortable right at the outset? Yeah, no, you're right.

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I mean, I was one of the older students on campus. My oldest daughter got married in my third year of seminary, and other guys were having their first child.

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So, there was a huge gap, which meant that some of my closer friends in seminary were in my age category, more or less.

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And, in fact, I still speak every week with one of them on the phone. We talk. We call each other and talk shop and play together.

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And that's important. And you'll forge those relationships in seminary. But I don't know if I was uncomfortable so much.

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I was a staff member at Greenville. And so, I just rolled with it.

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But there was a difference. I mean, let's face it. I wasn't in my mid to late 20s.

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And so, it was different. The dynamic was a little different. But I don't think I was uncomfortable with that.

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One of my pastors, John Miller, had a different kind of problem, being the only

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Baptist student at Greenville. At least when he was there.

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Do you know John Miller? I do. I think we've met maybe once or twice.

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If not, I know him. I know of him. Yeah, he's a good guy. I know he went to Greenville. So, I mean, it's not that big a school.

01:57:17

It's easy to keep track of guys that have graduated and so forth. Well, we have about a minute for you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

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The last thing I want to say to guys that are training for the ministry, if you're currently in seminary or if you're seeking to go there, do not sacrifice under any, for any reason, do not sacrifice the time that you need to spend alone in prayer and reading the

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Word. Seminary can be the twice time spiritually of your entire life.

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It doesn't make sense, but I can assure you it is true. So, you need to have that time.

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And if you don't, if you don't do that, you will dry up and wither away. So, make it a priority.

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Start your day in prayer. Start your day feeding your soul. And if you don't develop that habit, you won't carry it out into your ministry, and it will hurt the church, and it will hurt you.

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And so, keep a close watch on yourself and on the doctrine.

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I think I read that somewhere. Paul's advice to Timothy. Yes.

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Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have your websites, ProvidenceChurchEVV, that's an abbreviation for Evansville, Indiana, ProvidenceChurchE, as in Edward, V as in Victory, Vasinvictory .com,

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ProvidenceChurchEVV .com. And don't forget about the blog, The Parchment, which is found at TheParchment .net,

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TheParchment .net. I want to thank you so much for being a superb guest once again,

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Pastor Bill. I look forward to your soon return and your frequent return. I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in a question.

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I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

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Savior than you are a sinner. I thank the Lord that my brother

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John truly came to know that before departing this earth yesterday.

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Thank all of you for your prayers for me and my family as we continue in this journey of grief.

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God bless you, and I hope that you all have a safe, joyful, and refreshing evening.