America in Crisis, Arizona, and Douglas Wilson

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02:13

When the scribes and Pharisees asked our Lord about the greatest commandment, he replied, you shall love the

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Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.

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So why do we hear some of today's most prominent pastors saying things like this? It had everything to do with how we talk about the

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Bible and specifically or along with that, what we point to as the foundation of faith, which for most

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Christians, unfortunately is the Bible. We need to do better.

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We need to love God with all our hearts and stand unashamedly on the rock of his word. We need to love the

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Lord with all of our souls and respond to the worldview issues of our day with the wisdom and discernment that comes only from him.

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We need to love the Lord with our minds and understand the calling of God's people in every area of life in God's world.

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We need to love the Lord our God with all our strength and face the work of building a life -giving,

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God -honoring culture. Join us for four days at the Cultural Leadership Academy as we consider how the gospel influences all of life and culture and the role that we have to play in applying foundational

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Christian thinking to every area of life. Who are you gonna bite?

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We're being delusional. Delusional? Yeah. Delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. Well, you don't chastise chickens for being delusional.

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You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt.

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Is he hung up on me? Yes! What? Oh my God! What? What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

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The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage.

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Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosifs.

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Right. Don't go into the world and make homies. Right. Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck.

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That's a joke, pastor. When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

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Take an homies journey. Woe to those who decree iniquitous decrees and the writers who keep writing oppression to turn aside the needy from justice and to rob the poor of my people of their right.

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That widows may be their spoil and that they may make the fatherless their prey.

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What will you do on the day of punishment in the ruin that will come from afar? To whom will you flee for help and where will you leave your wealth?

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Nothing remains but to crouch among the prisoners or fall among the slain. For all this, his anger has not turned away and his hand is stretched out still.

05:40

Welcome back, everybody. This is the Gospel Heard Around the World. Apologia Radio. Very important show today.

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Kind of an emergency broadcast in a sense. A lot online. Things are happening right now.

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All eyes right now are on Arizona across the country. So much is going on. And so we're gonna start the show today and ask for your participation, your help.

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We're gonna need you guys for this. A lot of things are happening. That's Luke the Bear. What up? I'm Jeff, the Calm of the Ninja.

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And that's Zachary Conover. What's up, y 'all? Director of Communications with End Abortion. Now go to ApologiaStudios .com

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to get more, A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A -Studios .com. Everything's over there, including all access where you guys can get additional content, including the new

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Apologia Academies on apologetics. And we just cut or just filmed the academy with Dr.

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Kenneth Gentry. His new commentary on the Book of Revelation is finally coming out. And so he just did a

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Apologia Academy on the Book of Revelation. So that's gonna be available. Eight specific. Eight lessons.

06:43

Woo, I'm excited. So tons of stuff is there. Not gonna go into it all right now. You just need to go there.

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When you sign up for all access, you get additional content and you are a part of the ministry with us here at Apologia.

06:54

Everything you see is because people just like you are ministry partners with us. And so let's just dive right into it today.

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We need to get right to the conversation. So many of you guys are aware of what's happened the last couple of weeks in the state of Arizona.

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The Arizona Supreme Court ruled that the old law that was on the books through the duration of Roe, one of two laws actually criminalizing abortion.

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That law that remained, that the abortionist was committing a criminal act was upheld by the

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Arizona Supreme Court. And so all eyes right now are on Arizona. Donald Trump has had a big part in trying to convince

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Republican lawmakers, senators, representatives, and pro -life leaders.

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He's had a big part in trying to convince people to move more to the middle on the issue of child sacrifice because we need to win elections.

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That's essentially the response. We need to win elections. We're not gonna win elections on the issue of abortion, according to Donald Trump.

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And so right now, all eyes on Arizona because that law, again, criminalizing the abortionist is on the books and being pointed to by the

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Supreme Court saying that's about law, never been repealed. It stands in the state of Arizona.

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And so the guys were, while I was coming back from Kentucky and doing an event in Shelbyville, Kentucky, with pastors from across Kentucky and other

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Christians from across Kentucky trying to abolish abortion in Kentucky, the guys went to the state Capitol here in downtown

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Phoenix yesterday because believe it or not, believe it or not, there are

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Republican pro -life establishment leaders that are actually trying to repeal the law that criminalizes the abortion doctrine.

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I'm gonna say it to you again because it sounds like a fiction. It sounds like we're living in the twilight zone.

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There are Republican right wing professing, conservative professing

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Christian pro -life legislators in our state who are actually trying to decriminalize abortion in the state of Arizona.

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Let that set just for a moment. And hopefully as it sets, you'll begin to humbly receive what we've been trying to say for the longest time here at Apology of Studios, Apology of Church and End Abortion Now.

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That the greatest enemy, the greatest enemy to the abolition of abortion in our nation is pro -life establishment leaders and the pro -life industry.

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And it's because they fundamentally, they do not fundamentally hold to a

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Christian worldview. They are not consistent. They are not working to abolish abortion. They never were because it's a fundamentally

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Christian, a different worldview and not a Christian worldview. So get mark this down and I'm gonna hand it over to the guys.

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Mark it down. Arizona had two laws on the books, two laws to the duration of row. One was criminalizing a mother who willfully takes a life for a child in her womb.

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That was AZ statute 13 -3604. The next one is 13 -603.

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Now, the one law criminalizing the woman was removed from the books a few years ago.

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And that was done specifically by the hand of the pro -life leader in Arizona, Kathy Harrod, president leader of Center for Arizona Policy.

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So are you ready for this? There were two laws on the books, criminalizing abortion for the abortionist and the mother.

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Those two laws look like they are going to be erased from the books by the pro -life establishment and those who profess to be for life.

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One was by Kathy Harrod, decriminalizing it for the woman. So right now, listen, all the talk right now in the country about Arizona's abortion ban and all the rest.

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Okay, we're talking about a category of ban. The abortionist can't do it according to Arizona. That's on the books.

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However, abortion, this is not an abortion -free state. Arizona is not an abortion -free state even with that law because by permission of Kathy Harrod and pro -life legislators, the woman in Arizona is now decriminalized and given full legal permission and protection to any

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DIY abortion she wants. And that again is given to you by full permission of the pro -life establishment.

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So it looks like if this is repealed and they're working to repeal it, if it's repealed, it will be right -wing pro -life legislators and the pro -life movement that has actually decriminalized abortion in the state of Arizona.

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How do you like them apples? It's remarkable. I don't like them at all. It's remarkable that we even have in this conversation, too, about the law because at the end of the day, we're trying to make this illegal for providers.

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So it's illegal to aid someone in getting an abortion, but it's not illegal to get an abortion in our state, like at the end of the day.

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Right, that's a good way to put it. Right, and so here we are. Here's what we're gonna do. Listen, you may have many times sat in prayerful encouragement of us in this ministry of abolition.

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We're not the only ones doing this. There's abolitionists, faithful abolitionists across the country, Christians, pastors, Christian organizations across the country that are doing this.

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We praise God for them. We're working and laboring together with them. But many times you guys have maybe seen what the Lord has allowed us to specifically have a part in, and you've said, oh,

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I'm praying for them. Lord, bless them, help them. I wish there was something I could do. Maybe you're in a place where you're like, look, there's no abortion mill near me, not within two and a half hours or something like that.

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I can't really go there. I don't know what to do. And so maybe you guys have given financially. We're grateful for that.

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We need your continued financial support for this fight. But maybe you've wondered, how can I help? We're gonna tell you right now how you can help.

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Because as of right now, by the grace of God, they've tried to repeal this in the

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House in the state of Arizona two times, twice in the last week. And they're gonna try again.

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And they're gonna try again in the House. But now it's being pushed through the Senate to repeal the law that criminalizes the abortion doctrine.

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And again, I need to remind you, I need to say it again and again and again so our eyes will finally be peeled open. It's being done and being moved by the pro -life legislators in the state of Arizona.

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They are trying to decriminalize abortion. Why? Because we need to win elections, because we need to stay in the middle. You have turncoat charlatan, despicable, disgraceful people like Carrie Lake encouraging people to be more in the middle on this, to be, essentially she's espousing the pro -choice position.

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Yeah, it is pro -choice. It is the pro -choice position. By definition. She is a despicable, disgraceful example of a professing

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Christian. I'm sorry, you're advocating for the slaughter of children in this state.

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I'll just say this honestly. I have been in this, we've been in this for a long enough now to sit in front of legislators who are lying through their teeth to the public, their constituents.

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They are one way behind closed doors and they are one way on the billboards. I just saw one the other day that actually, let's just put it this way.

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I know the man for real and I know what he says behind closed doors and I know his compromise and I was driving and I saw his billboard the other day about voting for him and it said, faith and family, the faith candidates.

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And it's just like, let me just say, these people, we need to stop giving respect to people who don't deserve respect.

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And so when you talk about people like Donald Trump and Carrie Lake and all the rest and the good things that they have done and you're happy about something, that's fantastic.

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But when they start advocating for the murder of innocent children, that's where you draw the line. And so we need to call these people out, we need to confront, you can help right now.

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So we're gonna tell you how to help. Zach's gonna tell you how to help. So as he said, really the House was the focus yesterday but they're advancing a bill in the

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Senate as well. And so much of this is predicated on the amount of either

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Republicans or Democrats that we have, but the Republicans themselves, there's a handful on both sides that should they flip -flop, they're gonna get what they want.

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And of course we have the ballot initiative coming up in November too, but there are a couple of things that you can do to take action.

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And this is really what we're focusing on now, what we did yesterday when we were present at the Capitol, particularly if you live in Arizona, you need to go to the

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AZ State Legislature's website on your desktop and you need to register your support in opposition of these two bills,

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House Bill 2677 and Senate Bill 1734. If you don't have an account, you just have to create one on their website there on your desktop and then register your opposition, which is a thumbs down to these two bills, you can type them in by name.

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And from what we're told, the legislature does look at those things.

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They do take those things into consideration. So that's a very simple way that you can make your voice heard on this issue.

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And then two, there are senators and representatives, like Jeff mentioned, that are professing pro -life

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Republicans that need to hear from you. We have some content coming out here very, very soon that tells you the information, phone numbers, emails, names of the senators and the representatives that you do need to contact.

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This is happening next Wednesday. The legislature is reconvening. It will likely happen in the

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House again. They will likely motion to bring it back up and to vote on it again, which is a dead even stalemate.

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That's what it was yesterday. It was 30 -30 Republicans and Democrats. The Senate side, there are, of course, a couple

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Republicans waffling as well, which would swing this, which is how they were able to introduce a motion to introduce the bill on the

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Senate side in the first place is because Republicans waffled a couple of them. And they need to hear from you. They need to hear that they need to stand for justice, stand for these children, do what they say they ran on in order to get elected, and follow through with their pro -life commitments.

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They need to understand that you, the citizen, are breathing down their neck to do the right thing because, like Trump and like Lake, these politicians are gonna go as far to the center as we allow them if we don't hold them accountable, if we don't speak and make our voice heard.

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And so those are two things immediately that you can do. All the steps for where you need to go, how you need to create this, who you need to contact, it's all gonna be made available very, very shortly.

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Phone numbers, emails, and of course, the website. But those are two specifically practical ways that pastors in particular can disseminate to their congregations and say, these are two action items that you can do before next

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Wednesday. And then show up if you can. Show up and be present like we were by God's grace yesterday as this was going down.

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We were watching it on the monitor, sitting in the overflow room as they were voting on this. You need to be there.

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And I really think Pastor Zach and another brother from our church, they were there and they confronted one of the

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Republicans that were going in, one of the guys that was waffling, and he ended up voting positively against the bill.

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And I'm telling you, who knows? With the faithfulness of those brothers being there, confronting this man saying, do the right thing before God, you need to be faithful to your commitments, that might have swayed his vote.

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Yeah, conviction. When you show up and you trust God and you have faith, you don't know what can happen.

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Right. So act. Right. Yeah, so I'll just quickly say that, are you gonna give?

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I can give the names at least. Oh, please, yes, yeah, do that. So Matt Grass, who's the

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Speaker of the House, he has really an ax to grind against these children as a professing pro -life

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Republican. There's a lot of things going on in the background there, but he has the ability to bring forward a motion to call this to a vote again.

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So he needs to hear from you. And then of course, in the House as well, there's another

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House member, Timothy Dunn. On the Senate side, T .J. Shope and Shauna Bullock.

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So T .J. Shope and Shauna Bullock, these are the people in particular that need to hear from you on both the

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House and the Senate side. Yeah. Yeah, so just to clarify what's going on. So on the

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House side, as we mentioned, they're probably gonna bring it up again next Wednesday. They're only meeting once a week right now.

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And what we learned today is that they could actually vote on a budget for next year and close the session and be done for the year.

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That's where they're at. Matt Grass, who also is a homosexual, I think is important to note, he is refusing to close the session until they continue to vote on this.

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He's gonna keep bringing it up and up again and again and again. That's what we mean by an ax to grind against his children. Yeah, and he is termed out.

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So you can't, there's no consequences for him. You can't vote him out of office.

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He can't run again. And so he's just determined that he's just gonna do this until they get to vote.

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And then on the Senate side, again, it was like 16, 14 errors. There's the

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Republicans that flipped. So where it's at with that as they are, they haven't voted for the bill yet.

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They voted to hear the bill. And so they're still, and they're gonna meet again in two weeks.

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So there's two weeks that we can try to encourage these so -called pro -life legislators to do the right thing.

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Hold their feet to the fire. And I mentioned this last week, this is how crazy it is. Shawna Bullock, who's the main one on the

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Senate side pushing for this, her husband is on the Arizona Supreme Court and he voted to uphold the law.

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Right. Yeah, I hate to be around that dinner table. Yeah, so just to give you guys a feel for the state right now, what's going on.

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And look, by the way, you might be thinking, I'm not even, I'm in Canada, I'm in the UK, I'm in Australia, whatever.

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South America or a different state in the US, like how does this apply to me? This has everything to do with you, our culture, the communities around us, because when these things happen, they spread, okay?

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They spread, this kind of mindset spreads. And what's being spread right now is compromise and pragmatism by the

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Republican right -wing conservative pro -life establishment people. They are saying, this is our position, this is where we all need to move and now watch the dominoes fall across the country where everybody's compromised, nobody stands on the truth, nobody will speak the truth, nobody will be courageous.

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Why? Because it falls in one place, it falls in all the rest. And we don't want to acknowledge, but Trump has a big influence on that too.

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Huge, massive influence, and he's not even in office. Huge, and so now you've got conservative Christians in the pews who are listening to the guy that they love and they're going, oh,

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I guess this is the right position, I gotta follow my leader sort of a thing. Trump is compromised, Trump is inconsistent.

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We just did a show on it last week and encourage you guys to go watch that show as we dealt with some of those issues. But listen, this is not just this happening right now, it's not just this.

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As we've mentioned, there's ballot measures taking place across the entire nation right now where they're trying to force this into the constitutions of each individual state.

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We've got a happening in Arizona right now and you're talking about abortion essentially up to birth by way of constitutional amendment in the state's constitution.

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We are not an abortion -free state anywhere. The passing of Roe versus Wade did not do away with the issue of abortion.

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And so brothers and sisters, this is the moment, this is the moment to be prophetic, this is the moment to be consistent, this is the moment to stand.

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I wanna say specifically to pastors, my fellow pastors out there, brothers, stand, use your pulpits, be prophetic.

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Right now is not the time to back down. Now is a time to speak the word of God and the truth in this issue.

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And now you can see the leadership across our nation right now has either given up completely on this or is waffling on this issue.

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And we're talking about lives. Listen, Roe versus Wade goes away. We were always saying the whole time, it wasn't

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Roe versus Wade, that was not the problem. It should have been ignored, it wasn't the issue. What we have now going on after, after the overturning of Roe versus Wade is that we may find ourselves in short order in a far worse, more bloody

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Holocaust than we ever were in the 50 years of Roe versus Wade. And what I mean by that right now is abortion numbers are on the rise.

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They're on the rise. Planned Parenthood just dropped their annual report. They've committed more abortions. Yeah, they are on the rise after the passing of Roe versus Wade.

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But beyond that, when I say bloody, I mean a far more bloody, brutal

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Holocaust. It was always brutal. It was always bloody. But when we're talking about now, what they're suggesting with state constitutions and where we're going right now and all the cowardice and compromise happening with the pro -life establishment, we're talking about abortion being legal in states across the union from zero to nine months, essentially is what it looks like with the ballot measures in terms of like viability, but that's not really defined.

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And if they require extreme medical care, which you're talking about NICUs, like what, my girls were in the

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NICU for two months to 29 weeks. And according to this, they're up for grabs.

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They're up for grabs. And then beyond that, there's even language in some of these things that says, even if viability is a thing, if the mother's mental health is affected, the doctor can sign off.

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She mentally can't do this. And so we're talking about abortion up to birth. That's what we're talking about essentially.

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And so we're talking, listen, do not relax. We are in the middle of the fight right now.

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The fight isn't over. We're not mopping up. Right, we're in the thick of it. We're in the very thick of it.

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And as you can see right now, this is what we're dealing with. And the near total civil war era ban that continues to hang over our heads only serves to create more chaos for women and doctors in our -

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You know what's funny about this? This ridiculous tactic of the leftists. The civil war era ban.

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You know what else is banned since the civil war? I do. Slavery. Yeah. What if someone comes along and uses this ridiculous argumentation and says, oh, this ridiculous slavery ban has been around since the civil war.

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Do you see the games that they play? It's just simply, it's emotional manipulation.

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They cannot stand cross -examination over the facts and the issues. All they can do is play with people's emotions.

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That's what they did yesterday too. We're sitting in the house and what were the arguments for supporting? Rape, incest, life of the mother, health of the mother.

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Listen, this lady right here, you just put your finger on it. Bottom line, murdering people is wrong, whether that's 1864 or 2024.

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There you go, that's right. Eight. As governor, I promised I would do everything in my power to protect our reproductive freedoms.

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Here's what I've done so far and how we can continue to work together to end. I just got to say it.

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Nobody's trying to stop anybody's freedom to reproduce. Yeah. It's just another word game.

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It's just all mind games, emotional manipulation, reproductive freedoms. We're not talking about -

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It's a spell, the freedom to enchant the public. Right, we're not talking about the ability to reproduce and the freedom to do so. The reason we're having this problem is because there's been not responsible reproduction.

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Not reproductive righteousness. Yeah, exactly. That's a better way to word that. Right, so just pay close attention to all the emotional manipulation cues.

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It's never ending assault on our basic rights. First, my executive order, removing the ability of county attorneys to prosecute women and doctors for performing abortions remains.

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I refuse to allow extremist county prosecutors to use this abortion ban to lock up women and doctors seeking or providing needed healthcare.

26:47

Ooh, healthcare. Healthcare for whom? Who? Healthcare. We're talking about abortion.

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You're talking about the systematic disemboweling, dismembering and decapitating of another human being.

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Genocide. A distinct human being inside the womb. That is not healthcare. You're talking about a distinct living human being that you are willfully and unjustly attacking.

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And that's what we're talking about. So healthcare, reproductive rights. Pay close attention to the manipulation.

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Second, my administration has expanded access to over -the -counter contraceptives. Today, Arizonans across the state can walk into their pharmacy to obtain a birth control medication without a doctor's prescription.

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Third. And by the way, again. That is 100 % legal to do. I have to mention that thank you to Kathy Harrod and thank you to the

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Center for Arizona Policy and thank you to the pro -life legislators that decriminalized it for the mother in Arizona. Again, two laws in Arizona, all since the

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Civil War. Essentially, you've got these old laws. And the one that was taken down was prosecuting the woman who willfully takes life for a child.

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And that was done, not by the pro -choicers, it was done by the pro -life establishment. And so the women right now in Arizona have freedom to kill their babies willfully, completely, and freely by permission of the pro -life establishment.

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That's a fact. She could stand behind her right now. Unless she might go into Walgreens. That's the abortion pill.

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She could stand behind her on that platform right now on national news, take that pill and face no legal recourse whatsoever.

28:23

Exactly. And so all this talk about an abortion ban is nonsense. We're talking about one category with that law.

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It's just that guy can't do it, is what the law says. It doesn't say that there's a ban on abortion in the state of Arizona.

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Everybody can do it freely. And there's no prosecution. There's legal immunity and do it with impunity.

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And again, you can give a big round of applause to the pro -life establishment for making sure that that is the environment that we're in right now in the state of Arizona.

28:52

Well, I was gonna say, let's not call it birth control either. They're abortifacients is what she's talking about. Right, exactly. Yeah. Last year,

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I vetoed legislation that would have threatened access to IVF and potentially endangered access to any and all abortions in our state.

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And any other legislation that threatens to take away our rights will continue to be met with my veto stamp.

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Fourth, I am calling on the legislature to do. I wonder how people would feel during the time of the abolition of slavery, if we got to a place where I was like, no, we're all abolishing slavery.

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And then a governor stands up and says, I don't care what you do with slavery. As governor, I'm gonna make sure it's not prosecuted.

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You landowners, you plantation owners, you enslavers, you kidnappers, you go on doing what you're doing.

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It's your plantation, your right. And I'll stand for your rights to do what you want on your own property. And I'm gonna ignore all of the standards of justice and law.

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Because in my state, I'm gonna ensure you still have the right to kidnap and enslave black people. How would people feel about this?

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I wonder, I wonder. It's a different category of oppression of human beings.

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It's just a different category. And it's not dramatic hyperbole. No. It's a genuine moral parallel.

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Yes. You can't escape it. It's still an abuse of an image bearer of God. Right, yeah. And like I've said before, legislators across the country, it looks different in different circumstances in history, but we tend to do this as sinful fallen human beings.

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If we draw a circle around our group and we dehumanize another group, it happened in slavery, it happened during the

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Holocaust, it's happening right now with the most innocent and defenseless among us. We draw a circle around ourselves and we say we can destroy these ones.

30:37

And it's just like, you guys also, the clip, maybe I'll get a chance to pull it up in a second. The Bill Maher clip that's making rounds right now, where he said the quiet part out loud.

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I'm so thankful for that. Actually, you know what, the better thing to do would be to pull it up here.

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While you're pulling it up, it's just unbelievable. Like he refuted incrementalism. He came down on the pro -choice propaganda and he admitted that abortion is actually murder all in one fell swoop.

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He covered like every single base there was to cover and then he leaves it hanging in the air saying like, yeah,

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I just don't want these people around. There's 8 billion people on the earth. That's my position. If you're pro -choice, isn't that your position?

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And everybody in the audience is just dead silent. Right. And it's somewhere in here.

31:26

Where are we going? Where are we going? Okay, let's see. Let me see. If you haven't seen it,

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I want to make sure you see it. So forgive me, I just didn't plan on pulling the clip up here. And of course, this also was a cultural.

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So it's probably near the end, maybe. They probably didn't even put it in this clip.

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They're too embarrassed by it. Well, maybe I'll pull it up. Maybe I'll revisit it.

31:48

Come back. Pull it up. Okay, so basically Bill Maher says the quiet, I've been sent it a thousand times.

31:54

Bill Maher says the quiet thing out loud. If you can find it, send it to me. He says the quiet part out loud. And essentially

32:00

Bill Maher is showing his level of disrespect for pro -life establishment types.

32:08

And people like Donald Trump, who will say, well, leave it up to the states to decide how many they want to kill and who exactly they want to kill.

32:13

And the pro -life establishment that has limitations. Well, you can kill these kids, but not these kids.

32:18

And Bill Maher is saying, he doesn't have any respect for that. And he shouldn't have respect for that.

32:24

But then he says the quiet part out loud. It actually is the position of the left.

32:30

Here it is. Let's pull it up. Okay, go ahead, Isaac. Transfer. Not if you believe it's murder. That's why

32:36

I don't understand the 15 week thing. Or the Trump's plan is let's leave it to the states.

32:42

You mean so killing babies is okay in some states? Like I can respect the absolutist position.

32:48

I really can. I scold the left on when they say, oh, you know what? They just hate women.

32:54

People who aren't pro -life, pro -choice. They just, they don't hate women. They just made that up.

33:01

They think it's murder. And it kind of is. I'm just okay with that. I am.

33:08

I mean, there's 8 billion people in the world. I'm sorry, we won't miss you. That's my position on it.

33:14

That's quite harsh, Bill. Yeah, exactly. Honest. Yeah. Harsh.

33:20

You notice how we have to laugh to alleviate the conviction that we feel in our own hearts. Oof. That's how we cover it up is with hilarity.

33:27

So here, Bill Maher is actually showing that these are the two real positions. Like all this stuff, all this conversation happened in the middle isn't even real.

33:34

It's not important in terms of, you're not getting anywhere in the conversation.

33:39

He says the absolutist position that says this is murder and has to stop. He's saying all these people that say that they're pro -life, they're not making any sense.

33:47

Well, what you want to say in some states can decide who they can murder. He's like, that doesn't make any sense to me. That's right. It doesn't make any sense to Bill Maher.

33:53

Consistent. He hasn't lost the image of God and his ability to reason through those questions. And so he says that makes no sense.

34:00

It's not consistent. And the other side, he says, well, you know, it's murder and it is. It kind of is. I just don't care.

34:05

And you know, what's amazing is that that's what we've been trying to say to the pro -life leaders and establishment is that you don't spend a lot of time outside of abortion mills because that is what we hear outside the abortion mill.

34:16

I know it's my baby. I have a right to kill my baby if I want to. And so what we're hearing at the abortion mill is precisely that.

34:23

I'm just okay with that. I'm just okay with what I'm doing. And that's where this conversation really goes.

34:30

And so I don't like the fact that we have to be corrected by the likes of Bill Maher in the pro -life movement and within Christian conservative circles, receiving correction from a rabid unbeliever and hater of God like Bill Maher.

34:46

And so, yeah, there you go. So let's get into a conversation with our friend,

34:53

Douglas Wilson. You might be thinking like, well, why bring these two things together? It's important because it's, we're kind of dealing with the same things.

35:00

Now, mind you, please be very clear on this. I'm not saying that Pastor Doug, my friend, my very good friend, a man that I've gone to many times for counsel and I will continue to, someone that I love dearly and I respect greatly, someone who

35:17

I've spent, I don't know how many Sabbath dinners at his house, I've forgotten, a couple, three, I don't even know.

35:23

We've shared meals together. We've served the Lord together on platforms together, preached the word together.

35:30

I love Doug. And so I'm not putting Doug in the same category as the typical pro -life establishment types.

35:35

However, however, however, Doug's promotion of so -called smash mouth incrementalism,

35:42

I think is not helpful and it only adds or exacerbates the problem.

35:49

And so we're gonna deal with some of the comments that Doug recently made on, again, smash mouth incrementalism.

35:55

And I know we've done talks like this before, but it is very important to this conversation because if we don't get this right within the church, we are gonna lose our ability to have the impact that we need to have with the word of God and the gospel in this area.

36:07

And so, first thing we'll do is we go to Doug's conversation he recently dropped.

36:13

It is called fixing pro -life strategy, smash mouth incrementalism at the polls. And Zach, can you help me out a bit here with the timestamps?

36:21

1 .30, here we go. Here is our friend Douglas Wilson. An issue, an abolitionist is someone who does not want to chip away at our ungodly abortion laws.

36:30

He wants simply to outlaw the practice, pure and simple. An establishment pro -lifer is someone who wants to discourage abortion by whatever means are currently expedient.

36:39

And a lot rides on what the cool kids tell us expedient means and a smash mouth incrementalist is someone who wants to implement whatever restrictions we can successfully place on abortion now with the stated goal of coming back for more in the very next round.

36:52

And with all of us understanding that the final goal is the entire eradication of human abortion. This is something

36:58

I wrote. So what kind of laws are they? Ungodly is the word he used.

37:04

Ungodly, that's right. So the scripture that you read at the beginning, Isaiah chapter 10. Yes. Iniquitous decrees.

37:11

So these are laws that show partiality. These are laws that condemn the innocent and acquit the wicked.

37:17

These are laws that have unequal weights and measures posited. One standard here for this group, another standard for this group.

37:25

So ungodly, in my mind, my contention would be with love and respect to Brother Doug, that an ungodly abortion law,

37:34

God calls an abomination. Right. It's not just ungodly, right? There's no neutrality.

37:41

It's an abomination. And the contention that smash mouth incrementalism is really the way forward here, you know, in other words about this, is there a law that you wouldn't support?

37:54

And is there a limiting principle that you're working with in terms of what kind of laws you would support and what kind of laws you wouldn't?

38:02

Because we would say, if the law, which the pro -life lobbies have been putting forward now for five decades, have told us anything, it's we show partiality, there's unequal weights and measures, and we condemn the innocent and we acquit the wicked, the guilty.

38:18

Now, is there a standard in scripture that holds us accountable to say, no, we're not going to go along with that?

38:26

Right. What's the principle? And he's about to talk about the need for a standard. So let's talk about a standard. Yeah. Is there a standard that closes off to a certain pathways of ending abortion?

38:36

I believe there is. Yeah, so what the Christian abolitionists are arguing is we're arguing for a prophetic ministry, a gospel centered ministry in the midst of the abortion

38:44

Holocaust. We're saying that the word of God is the standard and that what we need to do in a time like this is be prophetic and not pragmatic.

38:52

And so I specifically read this particular chapter, this word from Isaiah chapter 10, starting in verse one, specifically read that because scripture does talk about those who actually write iniquitous decrees.

39:05

And it's interesting because praise God for the providence in this, it doesn't just mention an iniquitous decree, it says that the result of the iniquitous decree is that they make the fatherless their prey.

39:16

And so God says, woe to you, a curse on you, to hell with you, damn you, who write these iniquitous decrees, who make fatherless children prey.

39:28

And what we're arguing as Christian abolitionists is based upon the word of God, we have to confront these legislators and our nation with the very words of God, not compromise with them, but tell them prophetically, woe to you.

39:42

You are making these fatherless children pray. They have no representation, they have no covering, they have no protection, these children in the womb.

39:49

They are the fatherless, they are without representation of a father. That's what these children in the womb are.

39:54

They are made prey by this so -called incremental legislation because the legislation says you can kill these children, but you cannot kill these children, therefore making these children pray via legislation, by law, with a fancy pen.

40:16

And so what we're saying is that the Christian abolitionists says, no, our duty in the culture is not to play politics and pragmatism, but to be prophetic, to use the word of God.

40:27

And what we're arguing, brother Doug, and we've learned this so much from you because you've done it so well in so many areas of your ministry, is that we have to be prophetic here and speak to the industry and the legislators like prophets.

40:42

And how does the prophet speak to those who write iniquitous decrees, who make the fatherless to pray? He doesn't speak to them with compromise.

40:49

He says a curse on you. He doesn't go to the ones who write these iniquitous decrees and try to see if he can get them just a nudge a little bit further and just do a little less iniquitous decreeing.

40:59

He says, woe to you, a curse on you. And mind you, and this is really important, where our heart is on this, is that the way that the prophet speaks to those who are doing iniquitous decrees here is he does it by way of a threat.

41:12

Listen to what he says after he talks about making the fatherless pray. He says, what will you do? This is to those who write iniquitous decrees.

41:18

This is how the prophet speaks to them. What will you do on the day of punishment in the ruin that will come from afar? To whom will you flee for help?

41:24

And where will you leave your wealth? Nothing remains but to crouch among the prisoners or fall among the slain. For all this, what?

41:31

The iniquitous decrees, the fatherless pray, right? The not establishing justice. His anger is not turned away and his hand is stretched out still.

41:42

That's how the prophets speak to those who write iniquitous decrees. And I will say one more word on this particular point. The one thing that I struggle with when

41:50

I listen to brother Doug talking about smash mouth incrementalism, and we're just gonna go, we're trying to get everything we can, but with the stated goal that we're not done and our goal is abolition.

41:58

We're gonna do it. Here's my question. And I don't mean this in any way disrespectful to Doug. Doug knows how much I love him and respect him.

42:04

And I can't say it enough, but this is a vitally important issue. I'm not seeing a lot of smash mouth incrementalisms, incrementalists at the legislature.

42:13

Precisely. Where are they? I don't, cause here's what I see. What I see at the legislature is the pro -life establishment types.

42:22

I see the pro -life establishment types that Doug. Which he alludes to. Like Doug, brother, they don't hold to your worldview.

42:29

They don't, they do not. And what I mean by your worldview is your standard of justice has got standards of justice.

42:36

And so when you talk about getting to the ultimate end goal of abolition of abortion and equal protection, that that's where you want to go.

42:42

Doug, what I've said before, and I do hope you see this brother, public talk responding with a public talk, nothing behind your back.

42:48

What I've said before, brother, is that you don't seem to understand, you have missed this, that the establishment doesn't hold to your worldview and they are not working for equal protection.

42:57

They are not. They're not working for abolition and equal protection. They don't have the same goal. They are not. They believe that a mother who does it willfully must be given legal immunity and to be able to do it with impunity.

43:08

So your goal, Pastor Doug, of working towards abolition, the smash mouth incrementalism that gets to abolition is not their goal.

43:15

They don't want that. They're the establishment types. They're the ones that are writing the so -called incremental legislation that you're referring to.

43:23

Again, I don't see the smash mouth incrementalists at the legislature. I haven't seen them yet. I haven't seen them there.

43:30

I don't see them putting in bills trying to abolish abortion. I see the establishment there. Why do you think that is though?

43:36

If you're going to speak like a prophet, then you have to reference the standard. Yeah. Like that's the point, is that those lifting up the prophetic witness in the public square are pointing to something.

43:46

They're standing on something, right? We're not standing on compromise. We're standing on the scriptures.

43:54

We're standing on the standard and that's what we're heralding. Like that's what's going forth.

44:00

And just very quickly, and I kick it over to you, Pastor Luke, just this is so important to get brothers and sisters. I really hope you grab hold of this.

44:07

The debate between smash mouth incrementalists and abolitionists is actually not about incrementalism versus immediatism.

44:18

That is a false distinction because in reality, the issue is between justice versus injustice, which will you support?

44:27

Because the abolitionists know and acknowledge we're doing it all the time and so are others just like us.

44:33

We acknowledge that we've got to, we're probably first going to abolish it in a place with a small circle around it, like Kentucky or Georgia or Louisiana.

44:41

We'll establish justice probably in an increment, but it'll be a just increment. So abolitionists are not opposed to incrementalism in terms of justice in this spot first, and then it's going to spread from there.

44:53

So it's not about incrementalism versus immediatism. It is about injustice versus justice. What can you support?

44:59

Can we faithfully be prophets in this culture and support something that God specifically identifies as an abomination?

45:07

Can, and here it is, can I use iniquitous means to get to a righteous end?

45:16

Does that honor and glorify God? And will God bless that? Can we do evil that good may come?

45:22

That's right. And look, there's no way around this. And Doug would agree. Doug would agree with this. He would agree that these bills of partiality are wicked in God's eyes.

45:31

He would agree that unequal weights and measures are wicked in God's eyes. Doug's a theonomist, just like us.

45:36

But I don't believe that he's allowed the consistency that he has normally to get into him in this issue of the issue of abortion.

45:45

I think that Doug has a lot of experience. He's older than us. He's wiser than us in so many ways. A lot of experience over the last generation where he's mingled with and been in contact with pro -lifers and pro -life

45:56

Christians and everything else. And so he hasn't, I don't think he's actually realized that the establishment who's running all the plays, okay?

46:04

They're running all the plays. They don't hold to your position, Doug. They don't believe what you and I believe about this.

46:10

They're not working for equal protection. And they've specifically put their name on the line,

46:15

Doug, to say, with my approval, I will not support any bills of equal protection for children in the womb.

46:22

And we don't want any legislators in this nation to do any bills of equal protection that would lead to the prosecution of one of the people involved in the murder of the child, and that's the mother.

46:31

And so, Doug, they don't hold to your position. They don't hold to your worldview. And so all the ones running the plays aren't actually on the same field as you.

46:39

They're not even playing the same game. They're somewhere off in the distance somewhere else. They have a different end zone to push the analogy.

46:47

The sports analogy. You just lost, Jeff. Yeah, right. That's as far as I can go, Zach. You were well. It's not soccer, don't worry.

46:54

Well, before I wanna challenge Doug here, I wanna come to his defense for a minute because I'm seeing a lot of people in the chat saying, oh,

47:02

Doug's the same as the pro -life industry or incrementalist, whatever. And I wanna say, no, that's not exactly true.

47:10

Basically what Doug would say his position is, run all the plays, which includes the plays that we're running, the equal protection plays.

47:17

The play to criminalize abortion. Yeah, so they would be supportive of that. We've been on cross -politic. They've supported our bills. So there is a difference.

47:26

I just wanna, because the pro -life industry is just flat out against anything we're doing, which we've talked about time and time again.

47:33

We're saying Doug's unaware of this. He seems very much unaware of this. Yeah, and so, like you said, we love Doug. Doug's probably gonna watch this.

47:39

Doug, you're one of my heroes. And we'll be hanging out with Doug sometime I'm sure in the year and I'm gonna be at his house again or if he comes to Arizona, he's coming to my house.

47:46

And so this isn't a fight between Doug and us in terms of any kind of relationship issue. Yeah, so I think the main point is what we're asking is that you're just consistent.

47:55

And the setup you gave to the bills that we're doing about inequitous decrees and everything,

48:01

Doug would agree with 100 fold, 100%. He'd be like, yep, absolutely. So the question is, why is it that when it comes to abortion, you're not consistent?

48:11

That's what's kind of mind boggling to us and that's what we're trying to get to the bottom of. Yeah, all right, so this is at five minutes, 30 seconds in his

48:17

Smash Mouth Incrementalism at the polls. It is a difficult process for a purist ideologue to understand.

48:24

The Smash Mouth Incrementalist knows where he's going and he's willing to get there by means of incremental gains.

48:30

So the abolitionist has a dilemma. The former president has just made it crystal clear that he is not an abolitionist.

48:36

Can an abolitionist vote for him? He's not a pure presidential candidate, but is purity the standard or is actual progress the standard?

48:44

All or nothing purity is likely to wind up with nothing, but the only way to measure actual progress is by increments.

48:51

Even though Trump is not an abolitionist, he has stated a policy that makes room for abolitionists to work at the state level.

48:57

Leave it up to the states means that abolitionists could actually succeed at the state level. And for Trump, these are not just words.

49:04

Because he appointed the three SCOTUS justices that he did, Roe, which was a federal straitjacket on all the states, was reversed in Dobbs.

49:12

And because of Dobbs, abolitionism at the state level is now a possibility. Abolitionism is not on the rise because incrementalism is a dead end, just the reverse.

49:22

Abolitionism is a real option now because of the success of incrementalism. All right. There's a lot there, a whole lot there.

49:28

Quickly, quickly. Dobbs was not a success in terms of the eyes of God.

49:35

The Supreme Court justices washing their hands of this issue, not condemning it, calling it murder and saying to the states, you decide to kill the children is

49:45

God striking a straight blow with a crooked stick. It's not an amazing thing we should be glorying in.

49:51

We should condemn the fact that they were wrong to do what they did in terms of saying, you guys decide if you want to kill the children.

49:57

But we're thankful that God did away with it. And Doug, we paid to have the amicus brief put into the case that was arguing from a consistent position of as to why

50:07

Roe needed to go away. Go ahead, I'll let you speak. There's just so much. I mean, the overturning of Roe, has that made us more diligent and vigilant in our efforts to end abortion as a nation?

50:20

Or has it made us take our foot off the gas? Yeah. Absolutely. Take our foot off the gas. And again, abortion numbers are on the rise.

50:27

There is no abortion free state in this nation. We were arguing as abolitionists, Doug, that Roe needed to be ignored because it was not a law.

50:36

Congress creates laws in our nation. The Supreme Court needed to be ignored and rejected by lesser magistrates.

50:44

That would be the consistent Christian doctrinal position on the issue. So we were arguing that, but also

50:49

I wanna say that in terms of Trump making room for abolitionism,

50:55

Trump's fighting against abolitionism. Right. And that needs to be stated. And people are listening. People are listening. That's the point, is when he speaks, those that follow him listen and adopt his positions.

51:05

Yeah. He's incredibly influential. And once again, this has lulled people into adopting these centrist positions on what

51:16

God calls child sacrifice. Yeah. That's really his influence. Yeah. He's taken responsibility for these specific efforts.

51:22

The Alabama IVF thing. He took credit for making sure that children in IVF were not protected.

51:29

Those are real influences that lead to actual tangible lives being lost. And Doug, we know things.

51:35

I'm just saying, brother, we know things right now about what's happening with Arizona legislature, the

51:40

Arizona legislature, specifically by Trump and what he's doing.

51:47

He's not making room for abolition. He's fighting against abolition in our state. Yeah. And we talked about this briefly last week.

51:54

We are grateful that we are able to fight this at the state level. Again, that's how our constitutional republic was set up.

52:00

But I would argue it's not because of Roe being overturned that allows us to fight at the state level.

52:06

It's because we're a constitutional republic. The problem is that our states still should have been acting that way, but they were scared of the federal beast and they were scared of the

52:17

Supreme Court ruling and Roe v. Wade. So Roe being overturned doesn't make it so that we can fight at the state level.

52:24

It was already there. Yeah, because we're a constitutional republic. Because the way our system of laws was created, because of the

52:30

Christian heritage of our nation is really why. But to this point about purists.

52:36

Yes, please. To the point about purists, like, well, you can't vote for Trump then because he's not right in all the right areas.

52:42

I think actually that's a category error saying, I think it's a category error in terms of a leader. Is he perfect in all ways?

52:48

Is he right in every area or I can't vote for him? And then this area over here about the establishment of justice for the pre -born, you're talking about a category of justice, a category of justice in terms of legislation.

53:01

So I think in comparing the perfect political representative, is he pure in all ways?

53:06

Is he fully consistent to the issue of the establishment of justice? I do believe is a category error.

53:12

What we're saying is that you have to speak against the issue as it is. This is murder. This must stop.

53:18

You must have equal protection. And all the ways people have tried to get around the edges of that by compromise and pragmatism, we're saying are ultimately displeasing to God.

53:28

And they represent things that God has already abominated. And so in terms of - Things that he said he won't bless. In terms of our witness now, and I just have to point this out.

53:35

This is so important. And listen, I'll just go on the record here. Doug's a better man and a better pastor than I'll ever be.

53:42

I believe that with all my heart. He is so sharp. He is incredibly gifted by God.

53:47

He has a mind that is rare. In a generation of men and pastors, he's one of the best.

53:55

He's one of the jewels. God's given him a mind that's just absolutely incredible. And Doug is consistent like in so many places.

54:02

I look to him again for so much encouragement and help. And again, Doug and I are good friends, I believe.

54:08

And there's been so many times we've had tough times and challenges as pastors. Doug's the first guy I call. And Doug has always answered the phone for me, even like late night phone calls.

54:15

Like I think once I called him at 11 o 'clock at night. And he did no limitation on time. He was just there for me.

54:22

Any good pastor's just getting started at 11 p .m. That's true. But in this area,

54:27

I'll say this playfully, he's as wrong about abolition as he is about baptism. And only the errors with abolition are far more glaring, far, far more glaring.

54:40

And what I mean by that is just, here's a point. Doug is arguing here for this smash -mouth incrementalism.

54:46

Essentially, you can play in the political field, work with what's pragmatic for the moment, what is real, what is realistic for the moment is we can only accomplish this.

54:56

So he's arguing here with smash -mouth incrementalism that we make some plays, we even compromise, we go along with an iniquitous decree and say, yeah, go ahead and pass that iniquitous decree, but I'm coming back,

55:08

I'm coming back, you better know I'm coming back. And so he's arguing that way in terms of how are we gonna solve this holocaust?

55:15

We'll do it incrementally, and we'll do it with taking some wins, taking some losses, and those losses are abominable losses.

55:22

Those losses are, by permission, you can kill these, but not these. Let's be honest, that's not how

55:27

Doug always talks, and many of you guys probably already saw this week, I hope you did, that Douglas Wilson, and I was grateful to see this, was on Tucker.

55:33

It's fantastic. Brother Doug, this is how you talk to Tucker about how the nation is gonna change.

55:40

And this is in no way to belittle or denigrate Pastor Doug, it's just to say, this is consistent.

55:46

And what the abolitionists are arguing, Doug, is we should be like you here, in this spot. Not the one, not the

55:53

God on our money. How do you go back to a system based on Christian assumptions in a country that's no longer

56:00

Christian? What you do, and this is, you invite a preacher onto your show, you're gonna get some preaching.

56:08

Hope so. All right, so there's no way, there's no way to do it outside of God raising up preachers who preach a hot gospel, and church planting, there's no way to do this politically.

56:21

You gotta make the country Christian again. That's right. Basically, we're in such a mess that there is no political solution.

56:28

All right, we're beyond hope, there is no political solution. The next election, however happy it might make us for 10 minutes, is not gonna fix everything.

56:37

That's right. Okay? Our disease is radical, and it's spiritual. We've got a radical leprosy, and the

56:47

United States needs to repent of its sin, to use an old -fashioned term, we need to repent of our sins, our arrogance, and turn back to God.

56:56

That's what is necessary, and we need preachers who are willing to tell them to do that, to proclaim that this is what you must do.

57:03

And they must not do it in terms of law, like thou shalt, thou shalt, thou shalt.

57:09

The law condemns, but the gospel liberates. So that is in principle what the abolitionists are arguing, is that case, is that you're not gonna fix this

57:21

Holocaust and change the order that is there, the legal order that is there, politically.

57:27

You must do it prophetically. Pastors must be raised up. They must speak against the issue of sin.

57:33

And what we're saying is that these pieces of legislation that are iniquitous decrees, they show partiality, and God explicitly says in his law, he says you should show no partiality in judgment.

57:45

Unequal weights and measures, they acquit the guilty, all the rest, all these things represent sin.

57:51

And the issue of the Holocaust in America is a spiritual sickness. And the only way, as Doug rightly says, to overcome that spiritual sickness and that death is through a hot gospel.

58:02

It is through the word of God. That's what you have to speak. That's how the transformation occurs. And so that's all the abolitionists are arguing, is that you have to speak to legislators, not in terms of, okay, we'll accept the iniquitous decree.

58:15

You can kill those kids, but not, okay, we'll accept, but we're coming back, we're coming back. No, the answer is hot gospel.

58:21

The answer is the full authority of Jesus Christ. The answer is the law word of God. The answer is calling out that, that's wicked.

58:27

What you're trying to do is evil. Now, I wanna argue, and I believe this is accurate, that this strategy of like, let's push this out over maybe 20, 30 years until we finally get enough increments that end in abolition.

58:41

Now, again, the establishment is not working to establish justice as an equal justice.

58:47

They're not working for abolition, okay? But this whole argument of let's just wait two or three decades to see if we can finally get there.

58:52

How many babies are gonna die? How many babies are gonna die from point A to Z? How many are gonna die in that time period?

58:59

What I wanna argue is this. If we preach a hot gospel and the law word of God faithfully as ministers of the gospel to these legislators, saying that is wicked, that is an abomination, it is inconsistent, it's a sin against God, you're gonna answer to God for that.

59:11

If we preach that for, say, five years, hot gospel, with all we've got, do you think the world's gonna change?

59:17

Do you think legislators are gonna be convicted by that and they're gonna change? If they see that the Christian church and ministers of the gospel will not accept this injustice and they will tell the truth about it and they will show no compromise, they will not be pragmatic about it, they will be principled about it,

59:30

I wanna say that we'll save more lives over the long run by simply being abolitionists and say, this is the law word of God, repent and believe the gospel.

59:37

That's what we have to do. And Doug says that all the time. And that's one of the main points of his ministry is God blesses obedience.

59:44

Do we really believe that? If we're obedient and calling people to that standard, I don't think we have to choose between our idealists, you know, what's in our minds or in theory, what we're gonna do and our practice.

59:59

There can be a beautiful harmony between those things. It's not about being an idealist or being a realist.

01:00:06

Be faithful. Yes, be faithful, be principled and don't compromise for the supposed victory or the progress, right?

01:00:19

That was the question that he asked. He said, what's the standard?

01:00:25

Like, I keep coming back to that because the whole tagline is by what standard, right? That's what we say all the time and that's what he says.

01:00:32

So is the standard purity or progress? Well, if by purity, you just simply mean, here's what we believe and we're not compromising on the way to apply that to the world around us, then yeah,

01:00:46

I'm a purist, you know? I'm a purist that believes it and means it and those two don't have to be at war with each other,

01:00:54

I don't think. Yeah, I know. That's right. All right, I think we're running out of time here for today. We're gonna go to the after show in just a moment here, everyone.

01:01:00

So if you guys are partners with us in the ministry and you have all access, go over to the channel, apologiastudios .com

01:01:08

or the website and get ready for the after show. We're gonna do a quick after show with everybody here but before we go to that,

01:01:14

I just wanted to say, we've been talking for several months now about Ion Layer, ionlayer .com

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is where you can go, run by great Christian dudes and they have an incredible, incredible thing for your health and well -being.

01:01:27

You've noticed that, probably, do you have yours on today? Not today? No. Luke and I have our Ion Layer patches on right now.

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This is an NAD patch. If you don't know what that is, go and just Google NAD benefits and you're gonna just have your mind blown about how

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God has given us this amazing chemical in our system that you lose a lot of as you age and this is nicknamed the fountain of youth because of what this does for the biochemical processes in your body.

01:01:52

It has truly blessed my life and my health since I've been doing it. It is very expensive when you do it by way of IV and it's also very painful.

01:02:01

Everybody knows that about NAD drips but these guys found a way to do it. They're a medical patch. You get, is it six treatments in a box?

01:02:09

Yeah. Six treatments in a box and for less than you would pay for one

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NAD IV treatment and it doesn't hurt at all. Keep it with you over the day and while I was in Kentucky, there was a dude that drove his motorcycle seven hours to come to the event and when he walked up to me, he's like, hey man, thanks so much for recommending this and he pulled his shirt up and he had it stuck to his side and he was like, it's incredible.

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He's like, it's seriously just changed so much of my life and he's like, I don't even drink coffee anymore when I have it on because I'm just so focused.

01:02:39

I'm like, wow. Praise the Lord for that. So anyways, go to ionlayer .com if you guys wanna give it a shot, wanna invest in your health and well -being, ionlayer .com,

01:02:47

write APOLOGIA in all caps in the coupon code and then you guys will get a discount and they also bless our ministry so we can keep doing what we're doing as a ministry.

01:02:57

Luke. You know who does support equal protection? Bill Rapier. Yes. An Amtec believer.

01:03:04

Dev Gru, SEAL Team Six. Taking the axe to the root. Axe to the root, check that thing out. If you go to amtecblades .com,

01:03:13

you can get one of his sweet knives or this battle axe and you can put APOLOGIA in the coupon code. You have 5 % off your order and he also gives 5 % to end abortion now to support the work we're doing.

01:03:25

So yes. One of the most legendary Navy SEALs from SEAL Team Six are Dev Gru of The Last Generation.

01:03:31

And you know who else supports equal protection? Bradley Pierce. Yes. Our constitutional lawyer who writes all of our bills.

01:03:38

Understatement. If you're homeschooling family, please go to heritagedefense .org and sign your family up right now so you're protected in case any three -letter agency ever comes to your door.

01:03:49

They show up at your door. You've got an account with this organization. You make a quick phone call and you put them on the phone with your lawyer right there on the spot.

01:03:59

And so it's really important, especially in light of our current climate and what Christians are facing.

01:04:05

So if you don't have it, make sure you get it as soon as possible. And put apology in the coupon code there as well to get the first month free.

01:04:12

That's right. All right, everybody. So again, we're gonna head over to the after show right now. Make sure you guys join us over there.

01:04:18

Go to endabortionnow .com to give financially. We've got a big fight ahead of us. We need your financial help and support to do what we're doing.

01:04:24

You can see we're up against a lot. And so go to endabortionnow .com to give there.

01:04:30

We need you to help us to get to our budget if you would so we can accomplish all that we need to accomplish this year with these bills and to abolish abortion in different states.

01:04:38

And don't forget, we're heading over to the after show. So get over there. If you don't have your account, get your account. Meet us over there.

01:04:44

We're gonna do a quick after show. That is Luke the Bear. Peace out. I'm Jeff the Ninja. That's Zachary Conover. See ya. We'll catch you guys next time right here on Apology Radio.