Sean Penn's Anti-Christian Diatribe

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three three-three-four-one. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Cultural Decay, Shame, and the Sean Penn Academy Awards Speech

And good morning, welcome to the dividing line on the 24th day of February 2009 a beautiful Tuesday morning here in Phoenix. You can actually get up with the Sun now and ride fairly comfortably. Looking for 85 degrees and a shade today well in the mid 90s if you're out in the Sun.

So we did schedule winter in for about a week or so. And I think my tree out front lost its leaves for about one week. That was it. Week later starts going back. That's just how it works out here. It's a little different than what folks are accustomed to back east I would say eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

I was going to be Last Evening. I was going to record a video in response to certain comments made at the Academy Awards and I Guess I was providentially hindered from doing so took me 75 minutes to with assistance to beat a Can a video conversion codec issue basically and we did get it?

Fixed but that was all the time I had for making the video anyways, so we'll have to do it at some some other point. I just saw someone sneaking around the corner out there and whether one of the videos.

I wonder where Barry is. It's over toward the church somewhere, but anyway It's just letting just letting rich know a little something about this super secret location here and stuff like that, but Anyhow, I could just be misleading somebody you know that's that's that's all there is to that anyway.

So I want to talk about today. I'll still do the video. Though of course I get me bounced right off of YouTube as well. We really do live in an incredibly upside-down age and The speed at which cultural decay is taking place never every generation talks about cultural decay but It really seems like our generation can talk about it and not be making things up because the The speed at which things are changing and the upside-down nature of Morality now in our culture is truly amazing.

Remember back before the election over in California. About Proposition 8 remember the video of the little old lady and the the massive crowd of prop 8 opposers Rowdy individuals and this little old lady has a cross and he knocked the cross of her hand.

They're stomping on the cross and threatening her and all the rest of remember that picture remember that video and Remember that as she was leaving what they were chanting. Shame on you shame on you.

Now, isn't it amazing that people supporting homosexuality. Supporting the utter overthrow of the institution of marriage. Would chant shame on you. I believe that they are doing this because shame is something they live with.

They experience it every day. It is part of that. In Romans 1 when it says and we're gonna look at Romans 1 when they are suppressing knowledge of God. That is a part of what they have to suppress daily.

And so they want to project it out in others anyone who would dare remind them of their conscience is to be shamed. But shame requires some kind of standard. Shame requires some kind really of a divine standard because it has to come from from within us.

I mean It seems today those do not believe that God has created us with a purpose. That God has the right to determine what is appropriate behavior for us that he knows what is life-giving and life-taking.

That Absent that our society has to base shame upon majority opinion. Shame on you if you do not bow and and reverently say the name Barack Obama with breathlessness. Shame on you if if you believe that socialism is a bad thing shame on you.

Well that That really takes away from the meaning of the term shame because you see shame is is something we experience because we're creating the image of God and we know what's right and wrong and and We know that others share that image and so when we have done something that is inappropriate in God's sight that that we've we've in a high-handed way sinned against God we experience shame and.

So it has evidently been you know sent out in one of the memos. That's the what you need to start doing is you need to start saying to anyone who? Believes in Christian marriage. Believes that marriage is defined and established by God.

You are to say that they should be ashamed of themselves that must have gone out the memo because Sean Penn got it Sean Penn got the Academy where everybody if you haven't figured out yet the Academy Awards are when Hollywood gets together and Narcissistically worships itself for its hatred of God and everything.

It's good. That's what the Academy Awards are all about. How can we demonstrate in as many ways as possible that we hate anything that is godly anything that is right? Celebrate our rebellion against God that is what the Academy Awards are so we shouldn't be surprised by this, but once again I Just ask you so I just ask you a question.

Not only is it obvious everybody? That this kind of behavior would have been utterly unacceptable in our society even 30 years ago and Would have caused just an incredible uproar. But change some of the names here.

Because see who opposed proposition 8 well actually a large majority of African Americans Will support it proposition 8 I should say who oppose the revolution of gay marriage. A large majority of African-americans in California voted for.

The the ban quote-unquote on gay marriage is not a ban on gay marriage. It is an affirmation of what marriage has always been our society. They obviously want they have to change the grounds of discussion.

They all do that. You're gonna hear Sean Penn say we have to have equal rights everybody has equal rights to marry. It's just what marriage is you see it's it's it's it's not even a subtle Shift of the real discussion, it's it's blatantly simplistically puerile it's it's infantiles childish, but that is the level of The dialogue in our culture unfortunately and so that's what happens.

Let's let's listen to First of all the Sean Penn when he when he first begins speaking starts like this.

You call me homo loving sons of guns. Ah.

There you go, that's that's a great way to start off your acceptance speech welcome to 2009 in America. Then later on evidently what happened. Is Fred Phelps and his little cult showed up? And they were outside the Academy Awards and as soon as I heard Penn mention the people with their hate signs, I knew who it was and These folks just love Fred Phelps.

Fred Phelps doesn't is isn't intelligent enough well Maybe he is but he he is so self-deceived cult leaders of that way that He doesn't recognize that he is the greatest friend of The people that he protests they could ever have.

I mean he is the biggest blight upon truth and righteousness and everything else. Because he and his little cult Do not understand what the scripture says about how you approach these things. For those of you who don't haven't heard the story.

I ran into Fred Phelps once too he and his little cult were outside the general conference the Mormon Church and They were doing their thing. They just sort of show up wherever they can show up to get some some free advertising and publicity and I started talking to him, and I actually talked to him for more than just a few seconds before he lost his mind.

Because I pointed out that I had just recently debated Barry Lynn on the subject of homosexuality in New York and that caught his interest and Then I said, but sir Don't the scriptures tell us that we are to speak the truth in love now the scriptures do state that by the way that is an apostolic command as soon as I said that his response was God hater and As soon as he does that Then his cult members are trained like like Pavlovian Ringing of the bell to descend upon whoever he's talking about get between them and Fred Phelps shout them down with irrational Diatribes, and that's the end of that and that's what took place that was on the Let's see that would be the north side of North Temple Right out on the sidewalk in front of the assembly hall of the LDS Church there in Salt Lake City, so anyway Fred Phelps and his cult evidently were out there Being used to Bring great disrespect and disrepute upon the gospel as they always are and So Sean Penn used that he's not going to differentiate between them and and serious Christians and people who aren't members of cults.

No, of course not they just throw them all the same thing because well you can't be prejudiced. You can't be biased you can't be bigoted you're on the left and So you don't need to make necessary distinctions anything like that hypocrisy is the name of the game when you're on the left.

Thanks and So he took that as the basis for saying the following words for those who? Who saw the signs of hatred?

As our cars drove in tonight. And I think that it is a good time for those who voted for the ban against gay marriage to sit and reflect and Anticipate their great shame and the shame in their grandchildren's eyes if they continue that way of support.

We've got to have equal rights for everyone and there you hear of course Hollywood demonstrating its utter lack. It's other bankruptcy on the moral level. Cheering and so on and so forth notice the the tremendous leaps of illogic.

Which no one's going to accuse Sean Penn of being a logical person a philosopher really what has Sean Penn done in his life? I mean, he's talking about shame. Evidently, he's not ashamed of sex drugs rock and roll and everything else.

So we have a complete change of paradigm here do we not. So he goes from the Fred Phelps people. To anyone who voted for the quote ban on gay marriage, okay now notice that the shift. Not only are you changing what it was?

Which was an affirmation of what marriage has always been in the state of California and in the United States of America. Up until last what five years. But then you have this idea that anyone who voted for that anyone Who holds a position other than the orthodoxy of the left Should be ashamed and not only should you be ashamed But you will be a you will be the shame that you will experience in the eyes of your grandchildren.

Please note that the forces of cultural decay have Decided that your grandchildren are theirs and They are going to shove their hatred of the institution of marriage. They are going to shove their Rejection of anything that is that is good and right Down our throats and we just have to accept it.

We just have to embrace it and That's that's just all there is to it. And that's how it's gonna happen. There's not gonna be any argumentation here. In fact, the only argumentation given here is that we're talking about equal rights and yet That's such a completely bogus argument that that that kind of argument would not last in a meaningful debate.

For more than a few moments a few seconds. That Now, of course, I said meaningful debate. We don't have much meaningful debate in the United States any longer. So if you're just going for you know The emotional thing then you can you can milk that one for a lot.

But it is not a matter of equal rights. If that is the argument that Marriage should be redefined so that two men can marry and two women can marry then on the basis of equal rights. What other things need to happen?

Well polygamy obviously needs to be brought in and apologies made to the state of Utah and to the Mormon Church. Upon what basis can you possibly say otherwise logically? There is no argument against that none zip zero nada.

It just you just need to be able to have polygamy age limitations on marriage. They need to go equal rights and who said you have to marry another human being. I Mean seriously the the lady, you know last week the chimp attack.

Bathed with that chimp ate with that chimp slept with that chimp. Why not? I Mean seriously, we need equal rights as long as a person's desires are the new determination of what is right and wrong in our society and If you desire to marry your beagle, then you should be able to marry your beagle.

Why not? Give me a reason why not? Well, there isn't any reason why not because Once you have abandoned what marriage is what marriage is supposed to be how it's supposed to function in society. And once you abandon the fact that God has revealed in his word What is right and what is wrong and that our society up until only the past few generations did not blush.

To say that openly and to accept that. Then you've got you've got no other basis upon which to to act anyways and so. What is the basis however of this shame. That's the basis of the shame. Mr. Penn I Think if I compared my life and your life together.

And we would look at what we've done in our lives. That you know, everyone has things that bring them shame and I certainly have not lived a perfect life, but Comparatively speaking, I've heard a lot about Sean Penn and his behavior over the past number of decades.

Evidently, he's not ashamed of any of that behavior. So what makes one's viewpoint on marriage something that should bring shame? Whereas one's personal behavior and One's personal morality is now irrelevant.

I Don't know about you, but it strikes me as sheer hypocrisy on the highest level for someone like mr. Penn to even use the term shame and Yet the left is more than willing to do so. But upon what basis.

What basis what logical basis is? There for the left to talk about shame. Well, the only only basis they can come up with is they believe that they are going to build a cultural consensus. And that cultural consensus will change now.

We all know all of us know what this leads to. Well, I'll take that back. At least people in my generation should know. But one of the things that has truly frightened me. Frightened me about the next generation.

I've talked with my daughter about this and she agrees with me. Her generation is utterly disconnected from history utterly disconnected now you can blame my generation for not building that foundation that bridge and Connecting our children to those who've come before us.

You can blame us for that. We we are accountable for much of we are the ones who are so busy building our own dreams and fulfilling ourselves. That we did not instill in our children. I'm speaking generally here.

It's not everybody I certainly tried on some level but only as I get to this age. Am I really seeing how much more important it should have been to build a connection to those who've come before to see you know, what's.

The great worth of those who have sacrificed so we might have what we have. The next generation thinks they deserve what they have. That they have a right to whatever it is. They have and that's frightening really is it's part of that is they have no connection to history and.

So things like World War two are ancient history to them. The people who fought that don't don't really exist in there in their thinking. The sacrifice that took place in that context. Don't doesn't really exist in their thinking so they all they hear the only thing they think of when they think of Hitler is how you if you're losing an argument try to Defame somebody by comparing them to Hitler.

But the reality is there is a period of time. Almost a full decade in length when one of the most enlightened cultures of the past century engaged in the most amazingly sub human behavior and How did it happen?

How did it happen and Why is it that we thought we had the moral right to destroy that culture for what they were doing? Serious stuff to think about isn't it. But this next generation doesn't think that way.

They're too busy, you know making sure the iPod's full and you know that I've got my good internet connection and and That my my car is good-looking and so on and so forth just so obsessed with the things of the world that that higher order stuff higher order Contemplation of the meaning of life and important overarching themes just doesn't enter into anybody's mind.

And what they don't seem to understand and what all of us need to recognize is That the rights we have the rights that even allow Sean Penn to stand up there and make a fool of himself. Because in God's sight, it's exactly what he did and man I wouldn't want to be accountable for what he had what he said on Judgment Day.

Let's remember there will be a Judgment Day and Every one of us will stand before God to give answer for every word we have spoken. There will be a Judgment Day the freedoms that we have To do even what we're doing right now are based upon certain societal foundations and My friends those foundations are being openly not just attacked.

They're gone. We are living on inertia. We're living on the fumes in the gas tank. It's like in those cartoons, you know remember the Roadrunner and how he can run out into open air and the poor coyote when he gets out in open air, he just.

But but there's a moment where he's still there long enough to make a funny face. And then somehow his body gets much longer and he falls down into the poof of Sand down there at the bottom of the canyon and somehow the Roadrunner can run right back on the solid ground.

That's where our culture is that we we are at the poof point. The poof point may there's a book there the poof point we've we've gone as far out as the inertia is going to take us and now we are heading down at a shocking speed and If the foundations are no longer there for the freedoms the freedoms will disappear.

We have lost the lesson of fascism we've lost the lesson of what happens when a government is given unbridled power and We are already seeing in our own society those who wish to Utterly destroy free speech rights now.

They want free speech rights for their side. They want to be able to stand out there and say pedophilia is great and bestiality is great and homosexuality is great. We've got the free speech to say that but you don't have the right to say anything's morally wrong that we say is right and They are in power and I Just simply say to you We have gotten the government we deserved we have gotten the moral leadership that reflects a Nation under the wrath of God and I just asked my fellow Christians Have you given much thought to how you live in a nation under the wrath of God?

The only and I'm saying this to myself the only hook that the world has to rob us of our peace and joy at times like this is How much we love our things. That's the only hook the world has. How much do I love my things?

How closely connected am I to this world? Which hmm now I think about it. Wow ever notice that phrase in first John this world, which is passing away. It has no permanence to it and Christians in most societies for a long time have understood what that was all about.

They've had the right priorities. They've had to because they haven't had much of the things the world we live in a land where we have so much and we love it and We want it and That's the world's power over us.

That's the world's power. We have to give consideration to all these things. I've read it before. Let me remind you of it again there is Much to be learned from the inspired word and it is. Well, just just listen to what the scripture tells us.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven. Against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. God's truth is there. God's the one that's revealed it.

Mankind suppresses it. It is an action of man to suppress God's truth and As hokey as the word is in our society. Our job is to preach repentance. The thought you is across you how many. Let's let me give you just a quick Christian thinking test.

Here's a Christian thinking test. Here it is. Has it ever crossed your mind even for a moment? That the current recession going into depression is the wrath of God. I would say for the vast majority of evangelicals All you think about is well you know if These this group over here Fannie Mae Freddie Mac and if that hadn't happened over there and and the subprime mortgage and a bad A bad bad a bad a bad and and that's all that ever crosses almost any evangelicals mind today.

Because we don't think like a Christian but what is the most perfect logical Punishment upon a nation that loves its stuff More than it loves God. What about a nation that will not give thanks that refuses to acknowledge the source of its plenty and its safety and its bounty?

What is the best judgment there? Look at the Bible. How many times did the people of God become accustomed to luxuriant living and They stopped thanking God and they become idolaters and they start oppressing Everybody around them.

They no longer have any concern about godliness. What happens God brings that nation to its knees and All of its stuff gets carried off and given to somebody else and We are so proud of our Stuff we are so proud of our military strength.

Well, I could never happen to us. Yeah, think about it. It can't happen to us and it will unless there's repentance. And what is the job of the people of God in the context of God's wrath coming upon a culture?

We call for repentance. We do not shrink back from proclaiming to our culture. That the reason what's happening is happening is because of the wrath of God the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men and.

And right now this culture pays millions and millions of dollars to reprobates who stand in front of cameras and Use the skills God has given them to teach us to hate God's law and You think God will be mocked in that matter?

He will not 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number will shift gears after this break be right back.

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Presuppositional Apologetics Versus Evidentialism

And welcome back to the dividing line shifting gears just a little bit here. I know that for many in the audience you are fully aware of issues relating to the discussion of the proper methodology of apologetics.

If you want to read I think an excellent work on the subject. We carry a book in our bookstore called always ready. It was actually posthumously produced from the writings of dr. Greg Bonson. I've used it as a textbook.

We'll be using it again as a textbook. In fact. In a class that I will be teaching. In fact, I should mention this. I will be teaching a class the first and second week of June, I believe. Here in Phoenix in the Scottsdale area for the Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary.

It's gonna be an intensive apologetics class. We'll be discussing the new atheism Bart Ehrman Islam and so that's gonna be you know, if you're in the area or if you're a plan on maybe doing an early vacation type thing and you'd like to take a Seminary class along the way you could get hold of the folks at Golden Gate in the Arizona Regional campus and we'll be doing that in June but anyway.

One of the books that I have used for similar classes and we'll use again is always ready by Greg Bonson. And a lot of folks are new to the program and so I thought I would take a few moments to once again go over the basics and illustrate for you one of the fundamental differences between the presentation of apologetics.

That is very common in our society. Which is called evidentialist apologetics and that which I think is consistently biblical which is called presuppositional apologetics. Is this just some meaningless little distinction.

I do not believe that it is. I think it's a very important distinction and I think it's difficult for some people to really understand what the distinctions are until you hear Presentations based upon the two different perspectives when the Apostle Paul went to Athens and He appeared at the Areopagus recorded for us in Acts chapter 17 We read these words that he proclaimed to the philosophers there at the Areopagus being then God's offspring.

We ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all People everywhere to repent.

Please notice that is a command that is not merely an invitation. There is an invitation but it is a in the form of a command he commands all people everywhere to repent and upon what basis. Because He has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness By a man whom he is appointed and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.

Now, please notice when the Apostle proclaims the gospel on that hilltop He does not say to them. That's well. Here's how I think things are. I Think there's a better probability that my religious beliefs are true over against yours.

Let's put these in a computer and figure out. Hey, I've got 54 and you've got 642 so you should take my viewpoint because I've got a better probability than you do. That's not the apostolic proclamation.

He has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness By a man whom he has appointed not whom he may have appointed whom he has appointed and of this He has given assurance to all By raising him from the dead.

So on the day of judgment, there's gonna be no excuses. God's gonna say I raised him from the dead. No one's gonna stand in front of God and say well, you know, I didn't know and and Romans 1 addresses that yes, you did know and you suppress that knowledge.

But even more so why didn't know it was gonna be Christianity. I thought maybe it was gonna be Buddhism. I thought maybe it was Islam. He has given assurance to all By raising him from the dead. The new American standard says having furnished proof to all men.

By raising him from the dead he's provided the evidence that this is the one whom I have appointed. The resurrection of Christ demonstrates this and So the point is that from the apostolic perspective The preaching of the gospel even and this was in the context of unbelievers.

This is this isn't these are not Christians. These are pagan Greeks who are gonna mock His mention of the resurrection of the dead soon as he says and he knows that he knows as soon as he says that. That they're gonna start laughing because to the Greek mind resurrection from the dead was just the exact opposite of what you would expect.

Salvation was being freed from the physical body not being encased in it again. So he knows that but he will not pander to That which he knows. His audience wants to hear. He's gonna tell them what he they need to hear and so He preaches this he presents it and the apostolic proclamation is not a matter of probabilities.

It is a matter of Certainties and it makes sense because if you're gonna proclaim Jesus Christ is the creator of all things in heaven and earth. Visible or invisible whether principalities powers dominions or authorities all things are created by him and for him.

He is before all things and in him all things hold together. That is a radical Christian epistemology. That is a radical Christian view of knowledge. Everything that exists does so in Christ for Christ is held together by Christ is defined by Christ.

That's radical, but that's Christianity and so The apostolic proclamation is not well, we invite you to judge God. That's not the proclamation the proclamation is you are going to be judged by God and he has provided evidence.

He has given assurance to all Through what he has done in Jesus Christ, and so that's the foundation of apologetics. The presupposition list goes the Bible. He says look there are certain presuppositions that are a part of the fact that we are creating the image of God and We also find the Bible there are certain sinful presuppositions that are part of the nature of the fallen man.

You cannot make appeal to those fallen. Sinful presuppositions that are opposed to the knowledge of God and You have to oppose those things you have to expose them refute them and Call the person to repentance for having held them.

Yes, even holding certain presuppositions is sinful in God's sight. We live in a land in this culture where what you think is totally up to you it doesn't matter. God doesn't care about your thoughts.

That's not the case so that's what the presupposition list emphasizes is that you cannot grant to man a View of himself that is going to be fundamentally opposed to the gospel you which wish to proclaim to him if your apologetic methodology always has you going back and Changing what you said before Fixing your arguments in essence.

Well, you know, I know I said this before. But now I didn't really mean that but but you've already agreed with me. So, you know, this is good. But now you see what I really meant was this if that's what you have to keep doing.

I I don't think that's honoring to the truth. I don't think it's honoring to God. It's not biblical. Just not biblical. So with that in mind Normally how I illustrate this is I have my classes listen to the Bonson Stein debate on the existence of God and I prepare them for that we go through biblical texts about Christ the creator of all things try to you know build a meaningful Christian epistemology from scripture allow God's Word to define that rather than man's philosophies and so on and so forth and Then I contrast that with at least the opening portion of a debate that took place a number of years ago Between William Lane Craig and Frank Zindler and I I think this is in the late 90s.

Maybe middle 90s now that I think about it because I've been playing this hmm, I I'm pretty certain that I used it as Early as 96 or 97 teaching up at the Mill Valley campus of Golden Gate so it's probably early 90s now that I think about it and I want you to Hear again, let me let me emphasize What the presuppositional is saying when when Greg Bonson debated Gordon Stein.

Basically, here's the argument apart from the Christian God. Not just a nebulous concept of God. But apart from the Christian God, we cannot even explain why we're having debate here this evening all human predication all human thought.

Requires that you borrow from my worldview you have to borrow my God long enough to deny he exists. The presuppositional is says that you have to start by defending the right God. That it's not a step-by-step process where you maybe bring a person to deism and then maybe to theism and then hopefully to monotheism.