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Tyler, I'm one of the pastors here. I want to welcome you to our church building. Thank you for coming. If you haven't been here before and you need to use the restrooms Hopefully that's already done with but if you find yourself in need of the facilities they're outside this door and behind the fireplace out there and Also outside of these doors in between these doors.
You will find an offering box and we are going to be taking an honorarium for Dr. James White, so if you could leave something in there, that would be much appreciated. If you are Somebody who came here this evening and you are in Christ if you have set Christ apart as Lord in your heart we hope that tonight is a blessing to you and that it and just Gives you more reason to to give a hope for the answer that lies within you that you will be bolstered in your faith and you will be encouraged in the Validity of our Bible and the history of our Bible if you find yourself on the flip side like coin and you Have yet to bow the knee to King Jesus.
We want to welcome you here and thank you for coming Even though this might be different for you. And we want to let you know that we are unapologetically praying that you will indeed bow the knee to King Jesus.
So that is our hope that is our prayer. Again we we thank you for coming. We know that the Word of God has been questioned At every turn seemingly in in our world today that the veracity of the Word of God has been under fire.
And so we do hope that you will Leave here knowing that the Word of God is trustworthy. We stand wholeheartedly in agreement with Paul who says that God has given us an understanding of himself that What may be known about God is plain to us because he has made it plain to us in Creation in our own understanding and so we don't see any reason to try to prove God to you this evening.
But we do want you to leave with an understanding that God has revealed himself to us not only in a general way, but in a very special specific way that he has given us his word and it is a trustworthy reliable source.
And we do hope that you leave here with that Understanding and that God would do a work in your heart and and draw you to himself. That is our hope and our desire. Before we get started I do want to just mention to you that The we have the written word that we're talking about tonight Which explains to us the living word Jesus Christ and tomorrow night if you want to know more about him We're gonna be meeting back here again for a Good Friday service at 630.
If you want to come and celebrate his resurrection with us. We will be here on Sunday at 930 for Sunday school and 1045 We'll have our main service where we will gather for that celebration of his resurrection.
We want to invite you to those and then following that we're gonna spend three weeks Studying this this very same thing the reliability of scripture. We're gonna be calling that little three-week miniseries confidence in scripture.
So if you guys are into this kind of thing, which I'm assuming you are because you're here We want to invite you back to join us for that. So I'm going to go ahead and open up in a word of prayer and then I will introduce our speaker for the evening.
God we thank you that you are a good and loving and gracious God. We pray to you who are the the first and last the Alpha and the Omega The one and only God of this universe. We thank you that you have given us your word that it is trustworthy that it is reliable.
We pray that you would speak to us tonight through dr. James White that you would give us better understanding of where our Bible came from that you would help us to Have trust and confidence that it is indeed the Word of God.
We thank you that you have spoken to us through your prophets through your apostles and We pray that we would all leave here with that understanding that there is truth that it is Knowable and that we would be in Christ when we walk out of these doors.
God, I thank you for your love for your grace for your church and for how you have taken and you have bought your church with your own blood you have. You have laid down your life for us. You've taken it up again and you have left us with your Holy Spirit.
God work in us tonight, and we pray that you'll be lifted up and honored that you'd be famous in this building in this city in this valley that your truth would go out and People would come to know you because of the the ministry of your Saints.
I would pray these things in your name. Amen. So I'm assuming that most of you are here because you are familiar with dr. James White and his work. He is an author of over 20 different books Including the King James only controversy letters to a Mormon elder the Forgotten Trinity all great books.
He has engaged in over 175 public moderated debates with all kinds of bigwigs the the biggest names in Roman Catholicism and Islam and Mormonism and Jehovah's Witness and Atheists. He has gone the rounds with pretty much everybody.
He is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries and for nearly 40 years. He has been the host of his podcast and radio show the dividing line 40 years that's before I was born. That's quite a long time.
That's a lot of faithful ministry to the Lord. He has been married to his wife Kelly for about the same length of time 39 years. He has two children four living grandchildren. We are thankful to have him here tonight, so please join me in welcoming dr. James White.
Well It's it's four and a half grandchildren, we're hoping to Welcome a little boy into the world in September. Appreciate your prayers for that. My daughter is experienced two miscarriages in a row so we are praying very much for this this little boy and I.
Those who know my son-in-law Eric and my daughter summer are all hoping that The little boy will come into this world because the combination of those two people is going to be really weird. There's just no two ways about it.
It's going to be going to be going to be a wild time. It's good to be with you. I am on what we call a road trip I In 2019 I flew a hundred and sixty-five thousand miles. I taught in Durban South Africa Johannesburg Samara, Russia.
Yeah, it was 28 degrees below zero in January. That's a great time to go to Samara, Russia, by the way I Actually spent about two and a half months in London. During that time traveling and then speaking there as well I can get my I can get I can get pretty well pretty well anywhere in London on the tube.
It's it's an amazing place to be and I consider myself to have escaped from Melbourne Australia in December of 2019 when you consider how close that was to when things went upside down. That really was somewhat of an escape but So I was doing a lot of traveling and in fact, I was doing a lot of debating that year.
I did. I didn't I figured it would only take about another year two years to get to 200 debates and Then everything changed as we all know and I don't I don't wear face diapers. And so I don't fly anymore and So, you know, we were doing stuff online and that's fine but I Could spend the whole evening just Encouraging believers with the stories that I've been told from the people that I've been talking to Here in Utah down and in Southern, Utah, I spoke at Cedar City last Wednesday, I believe it was and Just just getting to see people and shake hands and look at people and and hear their stories and so now I I have that pretty GMC truck out there that I pull a fifth wheel around with and Here we are.
It's a little bit different than then Heathrow Airport in London but you get to meet all sorts of neat and wonderful people and it's You know you you you go with where the Lord puts you and take advantage of the opportunities that you that you have.
I'm on my way up to Idaho. I will leave on Saturday heading up. They're Gonna be up in Moscow doing a bunch of stuff with Doug Wilson. We're gonna be recording man rampant and doing a sweater vest dialogue that we've been doing for about a year and a half two Years now, we're also be debating each other on the subject of pedo communion, which is a real interesting subject but again demonstrating that you can have deep friendships and yet disagreements at the same time.
And so we'll be doing that and then I'll be heading home from there. Playing a tag with all of the nice big semi-tractor trailers and things like that along the way by the way. I just today had a sign made and Just today.
I got it taped onto the back of my my fifth wheel and It is it says let me see if I can remember it. Bible questions, let's talk CB channel 15 handle Diagnetus and So I'm really going to be interested on Saturday.
We install the CB radio. How do you CB radio installed on my my truck of course? I'm old enough to remember when CB radios were really cool you know, I was I was on a CB radio when I was in probably that would have been like Before I was driving my freshman year in high school back in 1977 something along those lines anyways.
But I I decided I need one of those things because those trucks, you know, especially when you're climbing hills. Sometimes get angry with me. So I'm like, what did you want me to do? And so I thought you know, I wonder I wonder how many people would would fire up their units and talk to me.
So I'll let you know I'll I'll report on my my little CB missionary adventures over the next a couple weeks worth of travel, but anyway this evening I Am as was introduced one of the pastors that apology at church.
We are planning a church up in Salt Lake City. That's one of the main reasons they come up here. But I've been coming to Salt Lake City for a very very long time the first time I in drove up the the 15 was in a 1964 Dodge Dart no, two body panels were the same color and It did not like driving all the way from Phoenix up here it was running pretty rough by the time we got up here, but I've been coming up here for a very very long time and In in the intervening decades I have had the opportunity of teaching Greek and Hebrew.
I have been a critical consultant on the New American Standard Bible translation. I Do a lot of work and what's called textual criticism the study of the manuscripts of the New Testament some of which are on the screen right now so other than being the director of Alpha Omega Ministries and a pastor of apology at church and a Grandfather, which I'm really enjoying more than almost anything else I am also the professor of church history and apologetics at Grace Bible Theological Seminary in Conway, Arkansas with Jeffrey Johnson Owen Strand and some other Men there and so that's the background that I bring to us this evening obviously in much of the work that I have done both in regards to Mormonism as well as debating men like John Dominic Crossan and Marcus Borg and Bart Ehrman it has been in the defense of the veracity of the text of Scripture and so for example, we have on the screen right now some of the Fascinating little Nuggets of information.
For example the one on the bottom left the two columns that's the end of first Peter in the beginning of second Peter in manuscript p72 and I saw that page during the papal visit in 1993 in Denver, Colorado and I Remember the excitement that was mine to be able to read that Manuscript, it's the earliest copy we have of first second Peter and Jude.
So if you've ever read first second Peter and Jude Then you are looking at the earliest handwritten reference to those materials it's also this was interesting to me during the Dan Brown Da Vinci Code craze anyone remember the Dan Brown everywhere I went every airline gate I went to.
Somebody was reading the Da Vinci Code and then they put the movie out and all the rest of stuff and it was all fiction. But everybody thought that it wasn't fiction that it was the real thing. And if you remember the story the idea was that the deity of Christ had been made up By Constantine and that up to the days of Constantine Constine's around 325 AD.
Up until that period of time everybody thought Jesus was just a regular man and that he was married and and all the rest this kind of fun stuff and During that same time period I was going around giving presentations and I would show This particular page because the second Peter 1 1 contains what's called a Granville sharp construction it's a special construction the Greek language and Jesus is called our God and Savior Jesus Christ here in p72 right at the beginning.
It's on the right hand side of the page there and The significance of that is this is written between 175 and 200 that means 125 to 150 years before Constantine. So much for Dan Brown making millions of dollars off of lies.
Right next to that is the long tall dark Little piece of a manuscript. I saw that manuscript. I have a picture holding it in at Macquarie State University in Sydney, Australia a number of years ago, and it's probably from about 275 to 300 it's it's from the book of Acts and the only reason I show it primarily is because a friend of mine took me and and we we met the curator and he got it out and he and I started talking papyrology and How you date?
Papyrus, maybe know how you dated papyrus. You just walk up to and say hey you want to go out? To see if anybody's still still awake. Most of you just had dinner or something like that taco time is sitting there bubbling in your stomach and all the bloods down there.
There's nothing up here so I could get away with saying anything right now but No, we were talking about Dating how you date papyri and things like that and I could just tell That I had I had provided a real service to this gentleman because it was plainly obvious that his wife had gotten tired of that subject about 35 years earlier and So he was really looking for somebody to to have a nice conversation about Papyrology with and so we did over on the right hand side is p66 and I like that particular picture because Most of the time what you see in a in pictures of manuscripts and more and more of them are becoming available Thanks to what's called CS NTM the Center for Study of New Testament manuscripts in Dallas.
Dan Wallace is the head of that. They're going around and they are making high quality Digital photography of all these manuscripts, and that's vitally important. There were some there was some stuff that was lost even in The Iraq War and Afghanistan there's probably been some stuff lost in Ukraine War destroys manuscripts and fires destroy manuscripts and floods and bugs and everything else and So it's vitally important that we have high quality digital photography.
Super high resolution of these manuscripts so most of the time all the pages are separated from one another. But here you can see what the book looked like initially and this is actually the beginning of the Gospel of John and you can see notice how the bottom corner is.
The bottom right corner is damaged as is the upper right corner, but the left-hand side is the spine. So you can understand most of our books your Bible will probably have the same pattern of where because you put that on a shelf.
What's the what's the first thing that's getting hit? It's that outside part of where the pages are the inside part has the whole binding to help protect it. But the outside part does not and most of your manuscripts will have your papyri manuscripts the ancient ones this is from around the year 200 and Sometimes I have people look up that and go wow.
It doesn't look like it's really very good condition, and I look at them and say what are you gonna look like in 1800 years? It's doing a whole lot better than you will and so. That's actually John 1 1 you can you can I use that one too because in the beginning was word was with God word was God and there you have that long before Constantine as well.
I like taking shots at Dan Brown just as a fun of it. And the last one up there over on the left-hand side the red colored one. May well be it most people think it is the Earliest portion of the New Testament we possess so in other words.
It's in real life. It's about the size of a credit card and It was Imagine imagine this with me for just a moment. You've got a guy in the night early 1930s in a basement in London. And he is he is shuffling through little pieces of papyri that have been brought to England from Egypt and if You look at it You can see all you're getting is the middle portions of words on a couple of different lines.
So you don't really have any way of coming up with a context or anything like that. So to be able to figure out what this is means you really know your stuff you can read most seminary graduates Would not be able to read what's on the screen right now.
The reason for that is that for the first 900 years the transmission of the text in New Testament. It was written as you can see as a single line of capital letters. No spaces between words and almost no punctuation.
Think about that in fact when you get to the end of the line you just simply start the next line you don't even worry About where you break so the words can be broken at really interesting and unusual places and So that's what you have here in what's called p52.
Which is the manuscript on the left-hand side and what's fascinating to me about p52? When it was discovered it was sent to the leading papyrologist of the day. Three of them put it at around the year 125 and One said it was about 8595 in the first century now when you date of papyrus you you go 25 years each way.
So it's a 50 year date range. So p52 has been dated as early as 125. Which is extremely early because of what it is a a manuscript of it's from John chapter 18 Versus 31 to 34 on this side 37 38 on the back side now.
Why is that significant? Well because if you lived in the 1870s German scholarship had convinced everyone That the book of John was written probably around the year 175. It had nothing to do with anyone who knew Jesus because it had such a high view of Jesus that had to be due to an evolutionary process over time of a Gradually increasing view of Jesus and so German scholarship was absolutely convinced that the gospel of John had been written about 175.
Until you find a fragment of it from 50 years earlier. That sort of ruins everybody's day and lots of books get thrown in the trash, which is good but. And it's I it is ironic to me anyways that this if you think about what John chapter 18 contains.
This is Jesus discussion with Pilate where Pilate asks him. What is truth and Here the earliest fragment of the New Testament that we have Comes from from a book like that now just with me for a moment, please realize we have portions of The New Testament vast majority of the New Testament in those first 100 and 200 years.
By the way, the book that is the the gospel that is the earliest attested most attested is John not mark and The book that has the least attestation manuscripts, which makes sense because the nature of the book is the book of Revelation.
Book of Revelation struggled for acceptance in the canon that makes sense. We'll talk about that a little bit more later on and so we only have two papyri copies of the Book of Revelation and what's really interesting just in passing.
I'll just give you this information. You can use it to amaze your friends. Over the weekend as you're getting together with folks in the church or whatever you can you can say Hey, did you know this and they're gonna look like you like wow, you are really sharp.
If you'd want people to look at you and think that way then then great you can use this. But the two earliest papyri manuscripts we have now a papyrus doesn't necessarily contain the entirety of a book.
Obviously p52. That's not all John. That's all there is to it. There's nothing more. But what it does tell us in 125 is that John chapter 18 was just like John chapter 18 is in later manuscripts as well.
So it's an important witness along those lines, even though it's a very small fragment but in in the two papyri of Book of Revelation. We do have Revelation chapter 13 and What's in Revelation chapter 13?
Well, what's in Revelation chapter 13 if we were to stop? Any guy riding by the road out here on a Harley? Okay, and we were to ask him What's the number of the beast? He's gonna go Six six six. You know, right everybody knows six six six, right?
Well, what's interesting is that's in Revelation chapter 13 and what's interesting is in the two earliest papyri manuscripts of the Book of Revelation. It's six one six. Six one six now, I'll tell you you're old enough to remember.
I remember when when people were very very strongly arguing That the beast was Henry Kissinger anyone remember when the beast was Henry Kissinger. Now the amazing thing is Henry Kissinger is still alive.
He's 147, but he's still alive. It's it's astonishing that he's still around. But Everybody has added up somebody's name to 666, right every time there's a presidential election. You know Hillary's name added up to 66 and Obama's name added somebody.
I is a Trump. It doesn't matter Who it is. They all add up to 666 so what if it's 616 and Dan Wallace at Dallas Seminary. This is his joke. So I blame him for it. He says he thinks the number of the beast is 666 and six one six is the number of the neighbor of the beast.
Think that one through now some of you are laughing because everybody else is but you have no idea why that was funny at all I know you because I know I knew my mom. That's how my mom got through all jokes and then two weeks later Jim I got that joke, you know, yeah, that's good.
That's good. Mama says that's wonderful so anyways, by the way, six six six and six one six are just Greek and Hebrew versions of The name Kaiser Nero just so you know, that's that's what that's about.
But that may challenge your eschatology one way or the other. Anyhow, so we had why I put these up here other than me being able to get you to tell you some stories and I like people you look at the bottom of the page here and your Bible and it says certain manuscripts say this and certain manuscripts may say that how many is have us have ever seen any of those Manuscripts.
I like to be able to show folks. These are them. These are what some of those manuscripts look like and in fact, here are some of the Later Manuscripts for example on the left-hand side. There is a close-up of a section from John chapter 14 in Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Sinaiticus is a when it was discovered anyways by Count von Tischendorf.
How many of you know who count von Tischendorf was how many have ever heard the name of count von Tischendorf? Marley have you heard of count von Tischendorf? Okay, all right I just want everybody to know Marley's my friend and When if I get too tired to finish up Marley's going to come up and tell you about frozen.
So there you go. That's that's how we'll finish off. So anyway Count von Tischendorf what a fascinating you would think a German scholar. Looking, you know publishing a Greek translation of the Greek translation of the Old Testament and traveling the world looking for manuscripts.
He really believed that the Bible is the Word of God and he really believed that eventually they would find earlier and earlier Manuscripts would help them to defend the Bible against German rationalism.
But what most people don't realize is that in all probability it was Constantine von Tischendorf. That was the model for someone that you all probably know a whole lot better than him. Remember any movies back in the 1980s about someone looking for ancient treasures?
A guy named Indiana Jones. He was modeled after Constantine von Tischendorf. Didn't know that did you now now you now, you know and Codex Sinaiticus was found by von Tischendorf and It's a it's a really funny story.
I've got to tell you it quickly. He had found some ancient material there and it's it's called the Monastery of St. Catharines to even get into the monastery. You have to go up over the wall in a basket all right, and they obviously their their their library was incredibly ancient and and just amazing and When he first visited he he found one of the monks taking some fragments to the kitchen to be burned In helping to cook food and when he looked through it, he realized these were ancient fragments.
And so he sort of freaked out and well, you shouldn't freak out when you're visiting a monastery and the monks never get out. And so they sort of clammed up and like, okay. This is a weirdo and they wouldn't really tell him much more about it and things like that.
And so he kept coming back and he kept visiting and it was years later. That he's come back. And again, he still hasn't found anything and it's the last night. He's going to be there and so he had published an addition of what's called the Greek Septuagint the Greek Septuagint is the Greek translation of The Old Testament done about 250 200 years before Christ.
It was the Bible of the early church and So his the monk that was the steward who was taking care of him. It would take him to his room and provide him with food and you know, you know the guy that got that dirty job.
He gave him a copy of the Septuagint as thanks for Helping to take care of him during his visit and the monk said started looking at us. Oh, I have one of these. Oh, yeah. Yeah, let me show it to you.
So he takes him to his cell and he Reaches up into the closet and he pulls out this large volume wrapped in red cloth and he lays it down he pulls the cloth back and Von Tischendorf is looking at Codex Sinaiticus Which was written? around 325 AD.
Now there is this would be the earliest manuscript of the New Testament known so von Tischendorf Having learned his lesson and having matured. Sort of goes. Oh, yeah. Hey, that's that's really interesting mind if I Take it back to my room and you know, just sort of thumb through it a little bit.
Take a look at it. Yeah, okay. So he goes into he goes in closes door. Now. This is my interpretation. Okay, I cannot prove this historically from the historical documents. All right, but this is what von Tischendorf did.
But silently because you're in a monastery, okay, because that's that's the way you need to do it and he did not sleep that night. And it wasn't just the Old Testament. It was the whole Bible. From Genesis to Revelation now, there were some parts missing.
It's. It's old it's really real this point in time, okay, and so. The next morning he he asked if they can buy it and they say no and how it eventually ends up in London where I saw it in 2005 in the British Museum is a long and sordid tale involving czars and Backroom deals and all sorts of other stuff along the lines.
But it's all online today. If you go to codex sinaticus org, you can zoom in on the text like that and and see the different Handwriting styles and things like that. The one in the middle in the blue is codex vaticanus, which is in the Vatican Library.
It's contemporaneous with Sinaiticus. And the one the right is codex alexandrinus. I've seen both sinaiticus and alexandrinus in the flesh. When I walked into the viewing room At the British Museum, I was stunned.
I was the only one in the room. There was nobody else there and there's codex sinaiticus. There's codex alexandrinus over here. There's a Tyndale Bible original 1611 and I forget I think maybe a Wycliffe translation behind me millions and millions of dollars worth of Astonishing things and they're just under glass and nobody else around.
I thought this is really dumb. Someone's gonna walk in here and and blow everything up and we're gonna really miss this stuff. So anyway These are the manuscripts you'll notice they look a whole lot nicer and And that's because this is done after the peace of the church after 313 AD Christianity becomes a religio licita a licit religion and so you can have professionals Do the copying without risking their lives and so on and so forth.
And so you can see the quality of the manuscripts that are produced after that point in time, but anyway, so Oops. Cease and desist sir I'm gonna need to use this. So we've got this will be the only video clip I play.
So well no, there's one other but We're gonna go old-school and I'm just gonna hold the microphone over the speaker. That's how we'll get the audio. In 2009 you can see I look a little bit different there in 2009 I debated Bart Ehrman.
Bart Ehrman is the Leading English-speaking critic of the New Testament in the world today really, he did his PhD under Bruce Metzger at Princeton Seminary back in the 70s and We did a debate on the reliability New Testament you can watch it on on YouTube and During the cross-examination.
I asked him a question Based upon the fact I had spent months and months and months Listening to his presentations and take it listening to his classes and reading all of his books and everything else.
And he did absolutely none of that in regards to me. Which wouldn't is not unusual at all, but I asked him a question and I want you to listen to the leading critic of The reliability of our Bible well at least of our New Testament listen to what he says About the New Testament, I did not expect him to say this, but here's where it here's where it came.
That's not what I wanted to do. All right, let's try this again and hit the right button this time. You discuss the length of time that exists between the writing of Paul's letter to the Galatians and the first extant copy that being 150 years.
You describe this time period as enormous. That's a quote. Could you tell us what term you would use to describe the time period between say the original writings of Suetonius or Tacitus or Pliny and their first extant manuscript copies very enormous.
Sorry ginormous would be a good one ginormous ginormous. Okay. Right. I mean ginormous doesn't cover it the New Testament. We have much earlier Attestation than for any other book from antiquity. That's that.
Now Suetonius Pliny these are Latin historians writing contemporaneously with the New Testament and so We know when they were writing because they tell us when they're writing. But on average any work that's contemporaneous New Testament the first Manuscript copies that we have.
So the first physical evidence we have of that book averages between 500 and 900 years later. Okay, remember I told you about p52 how what what was its date 125 from John. So that's within 100 years less than 100 years.
But for all these other books the average is between half a millennium 500 years and 900 years almost a full millennium. And so I asked him would you come, you know compare the two ginormous and then he says the New Testament has much earlier Attestation than any other book of antiquity and he's the leading English-speaking critic of the New Testament.
I think that's very important for us to keep in mind because unfortunately in the vast majority of Universities and college settings you don't hear that part you hear all about the unreliability the possibilities of change, but you don't hear this part and I think that's an important thing to To keep in mind now.
Let me just do it. This is this is the summary screen. From an hour and a half presentation I do on manuscripts and variant readings and I explain how variant readings arise and all the rest of stuff I'm gonna summarize it real quick.
We still have to talk about the canon, too. There's a lot of stuff under all of this is just simply to wet your appetite to get you thinking to to get you some some. Hopefully much more in-depth way of thinking about these things than what's normally commonly going on in our society there.
How many variants are there you're here? You'll hear people from you know Bart Ehrman will say 400 ,000 to 500 ,000 variants in the New Testament. There's only a hundred and thirty eight thousand two hundred words in the New Testament.
So if you got 400 ,000 variants 500 ,000 variants, that sounds like three variants for every word. That's not what that means they won't tell you that's not what that means and people repeat that and Religion reporters.
Oh my goodness. Where do we grow religion reporters today? I mean, it's got to be a very dark secret lab someplace that. To get religion reporters because the things that they will repeat uncritically is just astonishing but that's the site kind of stuff that you're going to hear and I remember when my daughter went to Glendale Community College briefly after she graduated from high school she had an vile nasty anti-christian teacher in a Philosophy of religion class or something introduction to religion class or something just a nasty nasty guy.
And she tried to endure it and eventually she'd been to all my debates and stuff. She someone just recently tried to insult her on on Twitter. Does anybody know sheologians my daughter the summer and her okay few of you know she's been going at it for quite some time now and Someone tried to insult her on Twitter recently to say oh, you know that summer Jaeger is James White's daughter.
The Apple didn't fall very far from the tree on that one. I'm like, yeah, it's exactly right. It's exactly right. So she eventually, you know. He made some dumb statement about the languages of the New Testament that she knew wasn't true.
And so she challenged him on it. His best response was to Google it. Which which tells you but the point is these kinds of professors are all over in the public educational system. And so they'll throw these numbers out and they'll say there's 400 ,000 500 ,000 variants know what they're right.
You know what the vast majority of them are In the English language unless you're from Mississippi or Georgia. You are supposed to say an apple. Right, they say Apple down there, but we we're supposed to say an apple.
You're supposed to put that in in there. Greek had the exact same thing. It's called the movable new you're not supposed to have two vowels crammed up against each other and Scribes really struggled with that.
Well, that doesn't mean anything. It doesn't impact the meaning of the text at all. So there's a large number of them are movable news. And in fact 99 of The scribal errors that have taken place in the transmission of the text of New Testament.
You could not explain to someone if they did not read Greek. They don't impact the meaning of the text at all now there are about it depends on how you break it down but there are about 1 ,500 variants that do impact the translation and Could be original.
So for example, if you have a manuscript if you have a reading in a manuscript from say like 1 ,300 years after Christ and it's the only manuscript that has this reading and No other Greek manuscript contains it and none of the Translations that were made because remember the New Testament was translated into Latin the Hiddick Coptic Boheric all these other languages in the first couple of hundred years after it was written and Those are really important because they can tell us a lot about what manuscript they were translated from.
What kind of manuscript they were translated from and what it originally read? So if you have a manuscript that has a unique reading and there's no versional support for it. There's no earlier manuscript support for it.
It's from like the year 1300 that doesn't have any possibility of being original. Because it's left no history and it's it's left. No trace of its reading in history. There's actually an example of such a reading.
That's that's really interesting. Because it was in a manuscript that a man named by the name of Desiderius Erasmus used and We'll get to we may get to Erasmus later on but Erasmus was a Dutch humanist scholar who public who printed and published.
Not printed first, but printed and published the first Greek New Testament in 1516 and that was a very important Greek New Testament because it happened to have been picked up by someone by the name of Martin Luther and Martin Luther in studying that Greek New Testament is actually Greek Latin diaglot.
It had the Greek on one side and Erasmus is Latin translation on the other. That's when the light started breaking through. When he started recognizing, huh? When attention agate do penance, but over here, it's metanoia.
Tay repent. They don't mean the same things, huh? So Erasmus was was important and and his work was important and it's his Greek New Testament that pretty much. With only a few changes ends up being the basis of the King James translation of the New Testament.
But one of the manuscripts that he happened to obtain in Basel Switzerland and working on his New Testament Was a manuscript that had a singular reading in Ephesians chapter 3. Where all of the manuscripts talk about the administration of the mystery of the ages his one manuscript said the fellowship.
The fellowship if you look at your King James your new King James is at this day. It says fellowship all manuscripts all ancient translations all commentaries and early church fathers. Don't say fellowship, but it's in the King James because Erasmus got hold of that one.
Now. We know that it can't be the original but There's where it took place so 99 inconsequential there might be about 1 ,500 that we have to deal with and we do it is The most thoroughly documented work of antiquity not only the earliest attestation.
It's the best attestation and the most attestation of any work of antiquity. Very important is spread all over the world quickly. There was no controlling authority. I don't care what YouTube says. I Don't care what movies you you track down on YouTube made by someone you have no earthly idea.
There are so many conspiracy theories. But the reality is the New Testament was written by multiple authors to multiple audiences at multiple times in multiple places so there was never a time when any one group could control the text of the New Testament in fact the process was the Gathering together of the New Testament over time and.
So if you go to the Chester Beatty library in in Ireland. In Dublin, you'll be able to see manuscript p46 and That is the earliest collection of Paul's major epistles. Well that took some work to do because when he wrote his epistles he sent them To places that are a long ways away from each other.
You know Colossi is not next door to Rome and so obviously there was a copying process going on and eventually a collection process and so what you get our gospel manuscripts with Matthew Matthew Mark Luke and John and Then you get Pauline collections and you get collections of like first second Peter and Jude p72 which we saw earlier and Eventually that all comes together to form the New Testament, but that took time and So in those early years there was no group that could come along and say you know we don't like the we don't like the doctrine of The resurrection and so we're going to take the doctrine resurrection out.
We're gonna put something else in. Does anyone remember? Always struggle with her name. I'm sorry. She out on a out on a limb. Shirley McLean. Shirley McLean, okay, I don't know why I struggle with her name, but Shirley McLean.
And most of you younger people are going okay. He's going back in danger in history again but Shirley McLean was this actress and She did this movie about her getting into the new age. And she had a spirit guide and all the rest of stuff and and she was you know in the movie.
She was walking along the beach and her her guru is telling her to say I am God. I am God I am God and everybody in the United States is in front of TV going. No you're not no you're not no you're not and.
But she would tell people that the Bible used to talk about reincarnation. But they took it out at the Council of Constantinople. Now I just say I like to say that and then stop and look at folks. Because we all go.
Huh because we all realize I'm Not sure what happened to the Council of Constantinople. So I can't really say well that didn't have the Council of content because I don't really know what happened. I Didn't know there was the Council of Constantinople.
See that's how it works you see and So people make this kind of a claim as if the Council of Constantinople which had nothing to do with reincarnation whatsoever. Had even had the capacity to make changes to the Bible it was impossible in fact by the time the Council of Constantinople p52 and P72 were already probably buried in the sands of Egypt someplace.
He couldn't get to him to change him so all these theories and you know Many plain impression of truism and removes and scriptures according to the LDS Church and my my Muslim friends are Absolutely convinced that all the stuff about the deity of Christ all that that was added in at a later time and so on and So forth there was never a time when this could have happened.
And if it happened to later Manuscripts then as we found the earlier manuscripts there would be these huge differences between them, but there aren't there aren't. So let's let's keep that in mind as you as you think about these things this thing is about to rip my ear off so and if a few moments if it comes off one more time, we're gonna go to go to this baby because Me and Britney Spears microphones.
Do not get along really well. So I'm not saying anything about whoever normally wears this. I'm not saying you're Britney Spears or anything. Just saying you know. Anyways any later editing was now clearly in comparison with ancient manuscripts.
That's a point I just made is if there was this kind of editing process at a later point in time. These earlier manuscripts that we discovered would would demonstrate that and there are not there is no evidence of that.
So but who wrote it? Much of our scholarship based upon skeptical deconstruction. Now deconstruction has become a real popular Phrase in our society now. It's used primarily as a synonym for apostasy but it's been around for a while and In essence what I would say as I look at modern scholarship is whatever we conclude it can't be what the faith has always said it is and I experienced that in seminary when I when I went to when I did my first master's degree we were poor as church mice and Just so happened that our first child came along right as I was looking at going to seminary so that shot down moving anywhere to go to seminary and So there was one seminary in Phoenix For me to go to fuller theological seminary now fuller today is so far off to my left that I wouldn't even be able to see them.
But they were pretty far off to the left of me back then though. They were much more conservative in the 1980s than than they are now and I experienced this I I saw this firsthand. It is a fact that in much of modern scholarship Whatever You you when you have any type of controversy about authorship or anything in the Bible the one answer that will not be considered by people on the left is The answer that Christians have had down through the history of the church.
That's the one it can't be and you won't even you want to take a look at and I can tell you in my debates Bart Ehrman never read a word of anything I said John Dominic Crossan Wouldn't have known where to find anything that I had ever said.
He was a by the way John I I told John Dominic Ross and he was my favorite heretic, and he sort of liked that he was just a nice little Irish monk and We just loved on him. We took him on a cruise actually.
And we debated on the resurrection on the cruise, but all of us Christians in the group. We just treated him Just loved on him. He didn't know what to do with us because we were just completely weird to him.
I mean we were like aliens from another planet. You you come out of a cell where you spent the entire? 1960s studying the Gospels and you run into a bunch of evangelical believers like who are these people it was pretty weird anyway.
But none of these people ever even Bothered to read anything that we had to say and the vast very the time when I encounter people on the left. They've never even read entire tomes of scholarship on the right on the very subject.
They're addressing because they're absolutely convinced. We have nothing meaningful to say. We study their stuff all the time. They do not listen to the other side so when people say oh the vast majority of scholars say that's meaningless.
The vast majority of scholars don't study the vast majority of scholarship. You couldn't keep up with it even if you wanted to. So be careful when people use argumentation like that if Christians believe something down through history that makes it wrong modern men are So much wiser and insightful than the ancients ever could be.
That's just an absolute given. How could you trust anyone who didn't have an iPhone? I mean seriously how could anyone have any knowledge of the world without an iPhone? Oh, I just got a text message.
Oh, well. I boy our our attention isn't really all that good and I Would you agree with me that Plucking people's toenails out without use of anesthesia would be a really good way of dealing with text message spammers.
I Thank you, I'm thinking about making a making a move toward that. It was bad enough when they called you. But now when they text you like really and especially when they don't even have your name. You know they use somebody else's name.
It's like. Anyway, sorry. We continue on. The earliest documents attached particular authorship to the Gospels though the books themselves do not identify their authors. You know you could argue a little bit John on that one and and some things like that, but the earliest documents the earliest material we have outside of the New Testament identifies the four Gospels as Matthew Mark Luke and John and Does not recognize any other Gospels you know people today was oh, they're all these Gnostic Gospels.
We'll look at some of them later on. The reality is those had extremely small distribution and not amongst Orthodox believers that had any belief similar to what you find in the New Testament at all. The Pauline corpus has shrunk a good bit in modern times resulting in far-reaching theological consequences.
What I mean by that well Bart Bart Ehrman only believes that seven of Paul's epistles are genuine. So can you imagine what happens if you're writing a commentary even if you're writing a commentary? You know he does believe that Paul wrote Romans.
But if you're writing a commentary on Romans, and you don't believe Paul wrote Ephesians. Can you see how that's going to impact your interpretation of Romans. Many times Christians will come up to me.
I went to the Christian bookstore. What are there such things as Christian bookstores anymore? Do you have a Christian bookstore around here? No, no see see that use of man. I'll tell you the world has changed.
Okay back back in the horse and buggy days we had Christian bookstores and people would go and they buy a commentary and They start reading the commentary, and it's like where are they getting this stuff?
I what? And people don't realize that so much of what is written today is written from a perspective of Breaking the text apart and not not viewing it as a harmonious whole in any way shape or form. In other words.
What you get in the commentary is going to be very different than what what you get from the pulpit most of the time. And that bothers people. And this is one of the reasons for that. So what is the basis of denying apostolic authorship of various books like Ephesians and Colossians or one of the real obvious ones is.
Everybody says well look at first and second Peter. There is no way that Peter is the author of first and second Peter. Why? Well you you might be able to sort of detect it a little bit in in a good consistent English translation.
But the reality is if you translate first and second Peter from Greek itself. They are nothing like they are radically different. One of them is just filled with complex participial constructions, and the other one has almost none at all and it's like.
So so scholarship says see clearly second Peter is a Apocryphal work, and it's pseudepigraphal. It says it's Peter, but it's never enough Peter blah blah blah blah blah and. That is what's taught in the vast majority of Bible colleges and seminaries.
And so that's what you end up with in vast majority of pulpits as well in in large number of denominations the problem is. While Peter certainly would have been familiar with Greek. You sort of needed to know at least enough Greek to get by.
To be a fisherman. I mean if a Roman soldier came by and yelled at you in Greek. You need to know what he was yelling. That'd be a good thing. And you say wouldn't the Roman soldier be yelling in Latin.
No he'd be yelling in Greek. Greek was lingua franca of that day. He may have known Latin if he came from Rome or something but many the Roman soldiers didn't come from there and the universal language at the time was Koine Greek and so but he probably wouldn't have been real good at writing it and.
And so if you read his epistles in one two epistles he specifically mentions the guy he's dictating it to. Even Paul mentions his amanuensis his scribe. They're not writing it themselves. Now Galatians may be the one it one Exception to that rule.
Because Paul says he was what large letters. I'm writing to you. Now was it a large letter or that he was writing in large letters because that seems he seems to have had some problem with his eyes. And this was such an emotional letter.
He's writing it himself possibly. But even he mentions some of the the people who were his scribes so if Peter is dictating the letter is it possible that Peter dictated the letter in Aramaic and Left it to the scribe to render it into Greek now if that happened at what point is Inspiration the issue you see because remember second Timothy 316 Does not say that Men were inspired by God does it?
What does it say all? Scripture is Theanoustos it is God breathed. It's the scripture. That's God breathed not the author and Peter himself said that he says no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophets own Interpretation the prophet wasn't sitting around going.
I need to get a revelation today. I need to come up with something today, and I'm just thinking about this. Okay, I think it's coming. Okay. All right here. We go and starts writing. He says no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophets own interpretation, but men spoke From God as they were being carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Men spoke from God as they were being carried along by the Holy Spirit. So Where is what what is what does our term? Inspiration me unfortunately that's a Latin term that means to breathe into that's not what it means.
That's not what the degree because it's not God taking men's words and blowing something special into it. It's actually when you're speaking you hold your hand from your mouth. You feel the breath from your speaking.
That's what it's saying. Scriptures are it's God speaking and so When you when you keep that in mind? You can have variation you have variation between Paul's letters. Philippians is different than Ephesians.
Romans is different than Galatians. They're still Paul's style. But you can tell that he's in a different mindset. I mean Philippians is a pistol of joy. Galatians is not and So you can see that in that in that type of a context you keep that keep that in mind now.
In general why do they deny? Authorship word usage studies are cited first. That is well notice that if you take the genuine epistles of Paul. And then you compare the words used in writing first and second Timothy.
There are major differences, and so we don't believe Paul wrote first and second Timothy now think about that for just just one second. Because that is that's the kind of argumentation you will get on Graduate level courses and everyone this room should be able to see right through it should be able to see right through it.
Think about it if you're writing a letter like Romans. To a church where you know not only is it going to be read in the capital city. But it's going to be copied and distributed all over the Roman Empire.
Because it's there in the capital city lots of Christians would come visit Rome. They find out Rome has this epistle from him they make copies and they take those copies back to their churches all right.
So you know this is a really important letter that I'm writing now compare writing to your dear son Timothy. It's not being written to a church. It's being written in light of you. You're suffering your persecution second Timothy says my times up.
Do you use the exact same vocabulary? When you write to a friend in an email that you would use in writing a formal theological paper for public reading. Of course not and yet, that's the argumentation and Because it's taught from The professor who's got all the degrees everybody goes hmm sounds good to me.
Okay. I want to I want to pass this class. So all right there we go and When I would challenge that kind of stuff very often you'd realize the professors hadn't been challenged on that kind of stuff before should be in General word uses studies decide first however in reality form criticism.
Based upon individual theories about the situation in the early church formed the foundation of most skepticism. About say the authorship of the pastoral so the rejection of eyewitness testimony in the Gospels so Bart Ehrman will not only studies mention word study usage but Bart Ehrman has a theory of what the early church looked like and It's different than what the church looks like in first and second Timothy.
Therefore first and second Timothy could not have been written by Paul. They're written in a later period of time because of Bart Ehrman's theories as to what the church looked like. Well, how would you come up with the theory as to what the church looked like unless you use?
The Christian documents to tell you what the church looked like. But they don't. I'm serious. You're sitting there going come on. These are credentialed scholars. That's the point. That's the point exactly.
So given the nature of Western scholarship, which emphasizes the new in the innovative. Never the consistent of the traditional. That which breaks down old views is promoted while solid sound reasonable defenses of historical views are looked down upon and scorned.
And if any of you have ever tried to submit a dissertation topic in Western schools. You know that what they want is something new and novel not something. It gives a deeper defense is something we've already believed.
So the way we do scholarship encourages heresy. That's just that's just the way it is. That's that's just that's just the reality. Solid answers do exist, but they are simply ignored as if they are Irrelevant.
For example all four canonical Gospels gives solid sound simply irrefutable evidence of a first century origin. They come from the first century and in fact One of the most fascinating more recent evidences that helps to.
Okay, mr. Sound man. I'm switching. I'm just about to go. I Start speaking in tongues or something and this is a cessationist church, so we can't do that. So am I stop it? We'll just there we go all right one of the most fascinating things is developed recently is.
You never would expect this to happen, but the the Israelis have put together a massive database. Based upon the bone boxes that have been excavated from graves all around Israel. And you see that what the Jews would do is they put a body in a sepulcher they leave it there for a year and Then they'd come back in and they would collect the bones and they would put bones Bones in a bone box and they would inscribe on the box whose bones are in it and frequently.
They put more than one person's bones into a bone box. Because there are there are only so many tombs. You know you can have outside of Jerusalem for example and so Someone got the bright idea one day.
There's a lot of names on these bone boxes. Why don't we collect all of them and create a database? Have you ever noticed how many Mary's there are in the New Testament. Never knows Mary and the other Mary and Mary Magdalene, and you know.
The the studies show that in the first century if you were standing in the middle of almost any City Street in Israel, and it cried out Mary 40 of the women would turn around look at you, but what's fascinating is when you look at the names found the Gospels and Then you look at the Israeli databases for the first century.
They're almost perfectly in line. Someone writing the Gospels in Rome wouldn't know that they wouldn't know what names to use. So if it was made up someplace else it wasn't it was written by the people that were there at that time.
Fascinating stuff. Indeed solid arguments can be offered for a pre 70 date for all the New Testament writings, and they can. Linguistic studies historical elements all support this assertion yet to be in today.
You have to support late dates for their writing and reject traditional authorship if you want to get a job in Almost any of the quote-unquote big seminaries. You can't no one should be able to Assert that you are a traditionalist in any way.
Likewise every word used to study that says Paul did not write the pastorals can be turned on its head by starting with a different original Dataset the presuppositions used must be Examined and they almost never are.
Remember the vast majority of scholars have never given a second thought to the other side. They haven't they never been forced to. So don't be intimidated by the vast majority of scholars say Because of my experience once you press them and you can I've done 175 debates with them you can watch.
They are left going well, but everybody believes that really no, that's why we're debating now let's get into the can of scripture real quick because I realize I'm going long and I apologize for that, but I Blame Marley you told me to say all this right gonna keep the girl watching.
She's gonna be twitching pretty soon. Is he talking about me yet? No, okay, okay? But why do we have the books in the Bible that we do given the Bible covers 1 ,500 years and has over 40 authors associated with it three different languages.
Lots of other books were written during that time and are they're not included in the Bible. The Bible even makes reference to some of the books that were written at that particular period in time. Should they be included?
It's amazing how many people? When they see that the the Bible makes reference of the books go. Oh these books are lost lost from what? Why do you think they should have been there if the Bible is being written today and Jesus were ministering in Utah boy would he find this a weird place and Someone cited an article in the Salt Lake City Tribune That attacked Jesus's teaching on the Sermon of the Mount.
Does that make everything the Salt Lake City Tribune ever printed part of scripture. Of course not and yet. It's amazing how many people that I encounter they well look. Why don't we have that and there's all these prophets writings?
We don't have yes. It's an ancient document you have any idea. Did you realize that ninety nine point nine percent of everything humans wrote? Before the time of Christ has disappeared into dust. I mean, that's just the reality.
Why should you expect to have it the only reason you should the only reason we've got we've got is because God wanted us to. Have what we've got. It took a miracle to preserve that stuff for all that period of time.
The can of scripture now here's now so if anybody watched the value line today. Sorry. This is where we do repetition. Because I actually talked about this because of another issue going on in the church today.
But most of you didn't so you're gonna be good. The can of scripture is a theological topic that is almost never treated theological when I was in seminary. Every discussion the can of scripture was based on simply looking at history.
Well, the early church used these criteria and you know, you have the Muratorian fragment from route 187 and then you know you've got Athanasius and it's 39 Festal letter and the late 4th century and and you know these are the standards that they used and wasn't written by an apostle or associated with the possible and.
And it was always just a matter of looking at history. But think about with me for just a second, what is the canon. Is The canon merely a historical accident or is that not a theological concept if we believe that God inspired the scriptures.
Did he inspire every book that's ever been written? I think they're all asleep. I finally did it. It's just out like a light. Did God inspire all books ever written. Did he inspire at least one book? So if he inspires at least one book, but he doesn't inspire all books.
Then naturally a canon comes into existence. It says that's the one book he inspired. He doesn't have to sit down say here's the canon. If you inspire one book, then the canon is going to contain one book and the author is going to know that canon perfectly, isn't he?
I've written 24 books or written or contributed to 24 books. And so I remember those processes. I remember those late nights. I remember those early word processors that I used. I remember dot commands and monochrome screens.
You young people are going what I had to be quiet at night while I was typing my first books. Because the dinosaurs walking by outside Marley caught that one. Didn't you like that one Marley? Hmm, okay.
So I remember writing those books. I have an infallible knowledge of the canon of my writings, but I've not written all books. God has inspired only a certain number of works with a certain number of individuals and by that act of inspiration He has created the canon now I never had to open up a Word document and Say the canon of the writings of James White and put my first book in and my second book and other than stuff like that I didn't have to do that.
It was the act of writing that created it and the canon. Since it is speaking of what God has done Supernaturally if inspiration if that which is say Anu sauce God breathed is a divine act then God knows he's engaged in that divine act because it's an exercise of divine power and.
So it'd be just as clearly known to God. What the canon is as that God is the one who parted the Red Sea? Because that's an extension of his power. He did that and he did that purposely and for a reason and.
So we often approach the issue of the canon as that the can is just sort of this Ancillary thing over here rather than connecting it directly to the fact that the scriptures are themselves Inspired and because they are God speaking.
They are absolutely unique. There's nothing else like them nothing else like them. And if you say well, I think you're getting a little bit beyond yourself here think about what Jesus said in Matthew chapter 22 when he was arguing with the Sadducees and.
And they were questioning the resurrection because they didn't believe in the resurrection. When Jesus responded to the Sadducees, he said have you not read what was first of all, he says you're wrong.
He he was not a modern educator. He said you are not knowing the scriptures know the power of God now. They would have been very offended by that. But Jesus said it so sometimes being loving and being direct are the same thing and.
Then he says have you not read what was spoken to you by God saying? I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and God of Jacob. He's not the God the dead but of the living. So his whole point interestingly enough.
Was that what had been written back in the Pentateuch in the writings of Moses? 1 ,400 years earlier. Had been so accurately transmitted to their day that he could base his argument upon the tense of a verb.
Because the argument was he is the God of Abraham not he was the God of Abraham. Okay. Now that is an accurate understanding of the force of his argument, but in the process we missed something. We missed something.
Do you hear what I said, and I I Quoted it correctly. Have you not read? What God spoke to you? Saying He's talking to Sadducees. Somewhere around the year 30 to 33 AD. This was written around 1400 BC.
There may have been some old men there, but they weren't that old. Have you not read what God spoke to you. Now normally when you say have you not read? What's the next part of the sentence gonna be what I wrote to you?
Or if you say Did you not hear? What I spoke to you all parents know that line. It's sort of secondary. They didn't do it every every day. Especially with teenagers. There's no teenagers over there soon have to worry about.
But that's not what Jesus said. Have you not read what God spoke to you. Saying he held men in the first century. Accountable to what had been written 1 ,400 years earlier as if God had spoken it directly to them to ever catch that.
You tell me what Jesus's view of Scripture was. Does he have the modern view of Scripture that we don't really know who wrote these things. And we don't know if they've been transmitted correctly. No he didn't.
I've never understood why people call themselves Christians and say I'm trusting in Jesus for my salvation. But you know when it comes to his view of Scripture. He really wasn't up as up to speed like I am.
Huh? What? Think about it. So when I talk about the canon in this context. And I'm talking about it being inspired and God extending divine power to bring this into existence is that Anything more than what Jesus himself believed about the scriptures?
It's not. So the canon scripture is a theological topic so. What is the canon? Well, you know canon means a rule or a standard against which something is judged or measured it kind known could be like a Like what we'd call a meter stick or a yard stick to measure things by.
The term came to mean an authoritative listing of books or works by a particular author. The Protestant Canon as you probably know contains 66 books. The Roman Catholic Canon Contains 73 or 74 depending on how you connect books together.
And was not officially made the canon of the Roman Catholic Church dogmatically until April of 1546. April of 1546 a long time passed before that happened. That's important to keep in mind now. The Protestant Canon of the Old Testament is simply the Jewish canon without the addition of the apocryphal books.
So in other words We know from certain sources that the Jews had laid up in the temple certain books that made the hands dirty because they were holy and The apocryphal books which Rome has made part of their canon scripture were never laid up that way.
They were actually written during the intertestamental period but two years before Christ. The books that you and I have in our Old Testament canon were laid up by the Jews in the temple and viewed as being their canonical scriptures.
How is the canon? Determined and that's the big issue. It's in Bible study classes all the time. And I'm just going to stop right here and let the pastor who's going to be doing these studies for the next three weeks.
He said three weeks. Yeah, y 'all y 'all just want to answer answer these questions later on. I should just skip over it now. No, in fact, that's why you maybe asked me to do this. Okay. All right. If you want a more in-depth study come back.
And and ask these questions, but this is a this is a very common question. Is it not? How do we get these. And you know, why is it 66 and not 69 or 78 or whatever else a vital distinction in fact is often lost when this topic is discussed and this is important and I can almost guarantee you've never heard anybody else talk about before.
Unless you've read Michael Kruger's books or you've watched the presentation that dr. Kruger and I did at g3 in 2018. God creates canon by inspiring some writings and not others. Canon then is a part of revelation itself.
It is an artifact of revelation not an object of Revelation. Now, let me just stop you for a second. Why is this important? If you think That the canon that is the table of contents in the front of your Bible is an object of revelation.
Then you have to ask who gave it to you. Who gave it to you. If you say it comes from councils then councils have the ability to give divine revelation long after the Apostles are dead. You see where that goes?
You see what the result of this is? So if you recognize that the canon is an artifact of revelation. It's an it is brought into existence necessarily by the divine act of inspiration itself. Rather than being an object of revelation where an angel comes down with a golden index.
Who would have thought of that? Now this one consideration alone Completely changes the nature of argumentation one must use to respond to claims regarding the canon. Man's knowledge of canon is passive not active.
Man or the church does not create canon but simply seeks to recognize it. You're recognizing what God has done by giving that divine revelation. You're not trying to create something called canon or canonicity.
The church doesn't have the ability to do that and the church didn't claim to have that ability in the ancient church. It's the modern Roman Church and others like that direction. That think they have that ability.
Is that the right direction? I don't know which direction I'm facing that direction. Okay. All right. Well, there's a few people down that direction to that. There's some interesting groups down there.
Um. Especially in southern Utah. Hence we have two views of canon which will designate canon 1 and canon 2. Canon 1 is the can as created by God's active inspiration. Just in the same way is that when I wrote my books the canon comes into existence.
I don't have to do anything. It just is and I know it's content perfectly. God knows the content of his act of inspiration. Canon 2 is canon as passively recognized by God's people led by God's spirit over time and beyond geographical boundaries.
Disputes about canon 2 do not in any way destroy the existence of canon 1. Any more than doctrinal disputes prove there is no objective revelation of doctrinal truth. This is extremely important. Let me let me illustrate this there are disputes about canon 2.
Uh the early church, for example struggled with the book of revelation. Now you may go. I don't like I don't like that. I don't like to know that think about it the other other direction. Would you rather have had the early church going, you know?
We don't have nearly enough books with ten headed monsters and sea serpents and all sorts of stuff like that. Let's go find some more. Wouldn't you have rather had the church going? Are we sure john was associated with this?
What's what's the actual meaning of this? What's it's actually communicating? Now i'll be honest with you if the early church had seen what the modern church has done with the book of revelation. I'm, not sure it ever would have been in the canon.
Oh apache helicopters, huh? Oh, we have no idea what those are. So out with you. Uh, it was a book that had a meaning at that time in fact. The best commentaries on revelation are the ones that are going to take you deeply into the old testament because it's filled with old testament symbology, that's where it's drawn from just.
Take the time to do the work on it. But the point is there were disputes hebrews. Some of the really shorter epistles and you can understand why some of the shorter epistles would struggle because. They wouldn't be as widely distributed.
It wouldn't be as widely known and the first time you run into it. You're like I've never heard of that one before and so there's skepticism there needs to be. That's an appropriate thing. But those disputes and there were disputes in the old testament, too.
Um, not so much amongst the jews initially. Uh, but esther doesn't name the name of god and so after Uh the destruction of jerusalem and it was called the council of jamnia. There was some questions about why doesn't esther name the name of god?
But that was that was Way down the road that that type of thing took place. Those disputes do not in any way invalidate the fact that. Even if we have confusion god didn't. And so the next question has to be this one, which I assume is the next question.
So if there is a reason for god to make sure his people know his word. Then it would follow that he would exert the same power used to bring the scriptures into existence to bring about that knowledge.
Is there reason to believe god would lead his people to know his word? Well. How about isaiah 55 9 to 11? For as the heavens are higher than the earth. So are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
For as the rain the snow come down from heaven and do not return there without watering the earth and making it bare and sprout. And furnishing seed of the sower and bread of the eater. So will my word be which goes forth from my mouth.
It will not return to me empty without accomplishing what I desire without succeeding the matter for which I send it. God has a reason for giving revelation. He has a reason for giving revelation. Without accomplishing what I desire.
And notice in the new testament Romans 15 4 for whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction. So through perseverance and encouragement of the scriptures, we might have hope. It's written in earlier times, but it's written for our instruction and it gives to us hope.
And in first corinthians 10 11. Now these things happen to them as an example. And they were written for our instruction. Upon whom the ends of the ages have come. So here you have This concept this idea.
Oops. Sorry about that. We're not going to be doing an apocryphal night. Sorry. Uh, we are we have run out of time so there is Reason to believe that god wants his people To know what he has given to his church as scripture so I'll close with this i'll close with a story.
About the white question the white question. And I didn't come up with that. I mean I came up with a question. But uh, I didn't come up with calling it that I'll finish with this story in I think it was 93 or 94.
I flew back to boston and I did uh two debates with jerry matatix. Jerry matatix was the first Ordained pca minister to leave the presbyterian church of america and become a roman catholic. And he and I have debated I think 13 times over the years.
I think the last time we debated Was at the university of utah on the I think the immaculate conception of mary or something along those lines anyway uh, we debated uh the apocrypha and justification by faith.
And one was at the beginning of the weekend at the long afterwards um Make a long story short. I had been we were but we had been on a radio program on weze in boston. We were supposed to go back on it.
And then we were told at the first debate that it that the radio program had been canceled. Well that day i'm out driving with my hosts. We turn the radio on and there's jerry matatix on the radio program and they're asking where I am.
But I had been told it had been canceled. We had both been told it had been canceled. So we went racing back to the house and we called in and I did the rest of the radio program on The telephone from a bedroom.
I've got a picture. Old black and white picture actually of me doing this. They had color back then but it was a black and white picture um yeah, it's one of those things, you know the smoke and and uh Jerry is just still man.
He is just still firing on all cylinders. Jerry never stops debating. I His wife, oh my I just feel for her not only that she had 14 children, but um, he just never stops debating. And He had not stopped since I had gone on to other things.
I live the rest of my life, uh, Jerry doesn't and so he's boom boom. Boom. Boom. We're going back and forth. And all of a sudden the question came to me I'll never forget it. And I said jerry, let me ask you a question.
I said how did a believing jewish man 50 years before christ came know that isaiah. And second chronicles were scripture and it got just as quiet as it did in here just now. Now on radio, that's not a good thing.
Okay, I grew up doing radio. That's called dead air. You don't want dead air because people change the channel when dead air comes along. All right. And so it got quiet now. Why did I ask the question?
Because he was insisting we needed to have The infallible definition of the roman church to be able to have scripture. And so I said, okay. Then had the believing jewish person know that isaiah and second chronicles were scripture 50 years before christ.
Got quiet the host a woman um said well We're going to take a quick break and come back with an answer to that question on the back side of the break and so. Off we go off to a commercial. We come back from the commercial so james, what were you saying to jerry?
So I repeated the question Dead air. There is no meaningful response from roman catholic perspective. In fact, this became known as the white question. And i've heard so many apologists discussing this in fact.
The amazing thing is I haven't listened. I haven't bothered to listen to it because this was from Almost 34 30 full years ago, but I but last month Roman catholic apologists did a program specifically on the white question.
Because they they can't come up with an answer. Here because if they say well the jewish magisterium Defined what scripture was back then the jewish magisterium rejected the apocryphal books that they've canonized.
So they can't go with that. One interesting answer that was given to me was one guy said well you can use the urim and the thummim. You can use the urim and the thummim the the the dice on the the breastplate of the high priest uh, and so you'd have to go to the high priest and.
Is isaiah scripture is the second chronicles right there was a process. Between malachi. And if you ever struggle to remember which the last one was just remember the last italian prophet malachi. Boy they are asleep.
Okay, let's just go ahead and finish this up. So between malachi and matthew. You have about 400 years. And no angels came down from heaven no golden indexes were dropped down in in supernatural events.
But within 200 years. The scriptures had been laid up in the temple. And by the time of jesus's ministry, have you ever noticed something no jewish person ever said to jesus, but that's not scripture.
And he held men accountable to scriptures over the course of about 400 years when you look at the early church. Right around 200 years after the birth of christ. You have what's called the meritorian fragment that lists about 87 percent of the new testament.
It may be more because it's a fragment there might there might be some stuff that's missing. That's around the same time as the laying up of the books. And then around 360 or so you 367, I think the 39th festival letter of athanasius.
He's not claiming to create canon. He's just simply writing as the the bishop in alexandria. He is writing a letter to all the churches specifically about when the date of easter is going to be. But in the process he said and by the way, you know, there's lots of books floating around so like that.
Here are the work the books of the new testament and it's the same canon you and I have today. He wasn't saying i'm defining these i'm creating it. No, these these are what we've always believed and don't believe any of the rest of that stuff.
And it's about the same time period. And there's no angelic visitors coming down from there's no golden indexes and no moroni's or nephi's or anything like that at all same process. If it worked for jesus, don't you think his apostles would and his church would pretty much have the same experience?
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. All right. I went a whole lot longer than I thought um, but marley told me to so I just I had to I had to do it and so. Um, I hope that's helpful to you. I did not have a discussion with you all about how you want to.
Are you all going to come up and correct any of my errors and stuff like that? Um, you were thinking you've got them written down there. You're going to be covering them over the next week. Okay. All right, that's probably.
That's a wise idea. So did you want to uh, you want to close the word of prayer? How do you we didn't discuss how you wanted to how to do this? So thank you very much for your attention. Well, it's it's critically important that we do think deeply about these things many of us are associated with Bible churches like this one we put bible in the name of our church.
If you're not from a bible church. You're probably from a church that has in their doctrinal statement that we believe the bible is the word of god. And it's important that we think about these things because we will be challenged on them uh the fact that i'm sure many of you have never really studied this in depth because You read the bible you hear god's voice through scripture.
It kind of proves the point that god's word does accomplish its purpose, doesn't it? And The lord jesus christ said his sheep will hear his voice. And many of you have experienced that by reading the word of god and god is so powerful and so good.
So kind to speak to us, isn't he? And so thankful we have resources in the church like dr. White also michael kruger both of them i've been reading a lot of them preparing for Uh the series coming up but before we get to that sermon series we have of course this week starting with uh, Tomorrow night good friday come back if you can at 6 30 tomorrow night for our good friday service or Resurrection day easter sunday join us sunday morning.
We'd love to have you this is uh, just a really amazing time On the calendar for the christian to remember christ's final sacrifice and of course his resurrection. That means everything to us because without the risen christ Nothing else matters.
But he is risen. And we celebrate that don't we well, let's pray together and do not forget to drop something in the offering box for dr. White Gas isn't cheap. And when you're driving a truck hauling a camper, it's uh even more expensive that way, isn't it?
So let's support him. Let's get him down the road and show our appreciation that way. Let's pray Father thank you so much for this evening. We've had this time that we've had to look at your word to consider how it is.
You have spoken to us and Preserved your word. How it is that you have given us this amazing gift this special revelation. That tells your amazing story that points to Our lord our savior jesus christ.
God, we love you and we thank you that you have chosen To save us you've chosen to speak to us and you've chosen to keep us by this word that we look to to learn more about you and Why it is that you've called us to live this life and to live it in light of the reality of the gospel.
God, we thank you for your church. We thank you for the many members that make up the one body of christ. And it's just so evident how we need each other. We thank you for the special gifts that you've you've given.
That help us that sharpen us in our thinking. And we ask that we would have great conversations flowing from this discussion tonight. That we would have conversations with our neighbors and that we'd have conversations with our family members about What the bible is and why it is so important that we look to your word God, we love you.
We thank you. We ask for protection and safety for dr White as he travels and give him an effective ministry while he's on the road and when he returns back home. We love you. We thank you in jesus name.
Amen.