The Ignatian Strawman Extinguished

Greetings, welcome to the dividing line. Sorry about a lot of stuff here. I Can't I Can't get any lighting in this room. No matter how hard I try it looks terrible having that light back there and only half my face is that I look like I'm.

Look like I'm making a ransom demand or something.

Yeah.

Travel Troubles and Why the Program Is Happening Anyway

Long day in the truck. Long day in the truck and then as I got close to Amarillo where I am right now this incredible windstorm. Picked up. I had seen prognostication of it and I stopped at my first. What's the beaver.

Whatever.

Whatever that gas station is it's big and huge and there's you know, they got 400 pumps or whatever. It was I had seen their advertising that they had deaf. Yeah, two pumps that had deaf big deal. But I got in there and the wind Was was so strong already That I wasn't sure I'd be able to get out of the truck.

And once I was out of the truck, I wasn't sure I was be able to get back into the truck. It was Wow Amazing. And then my hotel is Bucky's yeah Bucky's. Thank you. My hotel is in an area where they're building a lot of stuff.

So there's there's just open.

Dry.

Red dirt fields all around it and I don't even know if I'm gonna be able to see out of the windows of my truck when I get into it in the morning. I had to go out there, you know and get stuff bring it in which I hate to do.

It's why I don't like going to hotels and I washed my face off afterwards. I'm not sure they could be able to save that washcloth. I think Wow I've not experienced wind like this 60 65 miles an hour. It's just whoo amazing trucks getting off the freeway because it was just blowing too hard and pretty well and As a result, my heart is uber wonky right now.

I really wanted to be in good spirits and good shape for this program because I think it's important. But I'm just gonna have to trust the Lord. Give me the strength to get through it. If my eyes cross and I fall out of the screen just Shut it down and don't worry about it.

That's just what happens so Why in the world are we here? Well. And why would I be pushing this, you know, don't feel good. Haven't been able to get my heart back into regular rhythm. And so why why are we doing this?

Well Had two debates this weekend and I'd like to do a debate review of the actual substance of the debates and You know, who knows maybe tomorrow we can do something like that at the last stop that I had before I get home.

Long days long long distances, but what happened is.

The.

The Ignatius Cross-Examination and the Online Backlash

Debate with Joe Heschmeier on is the Massey propitiatory sacrifice took place on Saturday evening now Sunday, I preached at 12 -5 church and then they have a fellowship meal and then there's a sermon discussion afterwards and So I didn't get out of there till a little bit for two.

I would say I wanted to get about four hours of driving in basically drove across the state of Arkansas just to make these next two days even a little bit shorter. And Once I got into where I was last night I Started seeing things I really do try to avoid Twitter and things like that while driving.

It's Probably a wise thing and I started seeing things And all of a sudden. But what's going on is Cameron Bertuzzi a convert to Roman Catholicism had this Twitter threat where he's going after me and It was about During the cross-examination.

So this was not a part of the debate as far as the presentations anything like that. During cross-examination. One of the cross-examination sections Joe Heschmeier Brought up the standard citation.

From.

Ignatius in his letter to the Smyrnians. I'm assuming that's what it was. I haven't again. I'm traveling. I haven't had time to even download any of this stuff or anything like that but he brought up the Ignatius quote that I've had a multi-part video series on posted and I looked I looked today.

It's it's actually on my YouTube channel because my YouTube channel was the first one that we got to. When YouTube first started you can only you do 10 minute segments until you earned a certain number of followers or something and then you could do longer stuff and.

So it's broken up into little eight nine ten minute segments I mean with resolutions like 640 by 480 or something. It's a long time ago. I think it said 17 years. So that would be. I didn't know YouTube was around 17 years ago, but that's what it said when I looked at.

So I.

Had dealt with this stuff. Who it was called who reads Ignatius in context and. So as soon as he said it I'm like, okay. As we're gonna see and we're gonna walk through it. Strength permitting.

I.

Knew where I was going what I was gonna do is I was gonna say what I said then and what I'll say now and I'll be able to substantiate but I'll be able to demonstrate from the text that what Ignatius is doing is He is providing an anti docetic Argument a polemic against docetism.

The docetics believe that Jesus did not have a physical body so they were Gnostics and John warned about them in first John and Ignatius warns about them in his letters as well. So normally, I would have simply given that as a quick response and Directed people to the fuller conversation in my videos online.

But a.

Couple of months ago I was having conversation with a brother online. Who's been doing a lot of study? Into Ignatius and especially the Ignatian corpus. Now, what in the world is that? Well, what a lot of people don't understand About documents in church history is that When you deal with Roman Catholicism.

The Roman Catholic Church has utilized forgeries. For many many centuries, in fact, it's interesting. Joe Heschmeier is an attorney. I debated another attorney on.

The.

Perpetual. I think it's a perpetual virginity of Mary. Yeah, it's perpetual Virginia Mary on Long Island number of years ago and during the debate he gave this quote from Augustine and.

I.

Had never heard of it before and But back then, you know you couldn't even now during debate it would be hard to Check something like that though. It could be done much more quickly than it could back then maybe during a break or something you can.

And After the debate in you know, the weeks afterwards, you know, we dig this quote out. It's a forgery. Augustine didn't say it and I'm not saying that my opponent knew that.

But.

The fact the matter is Rome has a long history. All I got to say is donation of Constantine. All I've got to say is Pseudo Isidore and decretals and these are Forged works that had tremendous impact On the defense and the of the papal claims the building up of the papacy things like that and so.

There were a lot of forged works. For example Milito Sardis Really important witness in the second late second century Deity of Christ Canon issues. But guess what? There's also Epistles by what we call Pseudo Milito and So it was very common Sadly for a long time if you wanted your your book to get read And nobody knew who in the world you were you would Put someone's name on it.

That was much better known than you are and Really honestly until Around the time of the Renaissance Europe suffered from anachronism and I've told a story many times before you you see paintings from the 11th 12th century of.

David.

In the Bible and he has armor on he's riding a horse and lives in a castle because Well, that's where Kings live and that's how they fight and they have armor and they ride horses and stuff like that and People assume things that always been the way they were then and that makes it very hard to detect.

Forgeries, how do you detect a forgery? Well, give me an example the Gospel of Barnabas That the Muslims love to promote actually comes from about the 13th century has nothing to do with biblical Barnabas, but It's it's so laughably bad Because it mentions all sorts of stuff that didn't exist in the first century and Really only came to exist, you know a thousand years later and.

So.

Today, it's a lot easier to recognize these things because We understand Anachronism we understand that, you know. Well, you've seen it. You see it all the time. You know that mean you see on on Twitter or Facebook or whatever you use Where where it's got Abraham Lincoln and it's a bit as Abraham Lincoln said don't believe everything you see on the Internet.

You know and and it's supposed to be funny because obviously Abraham Lincoln had no earthly idea what the Internet would be or it certainly didn't exist during his day. So it's an example of anachronism but the problem is Rome has a long history of Utilizing forgeries that we can recognize by the presence of anachronism To substantiate our claims.

And so there is an entire when we talk about the Ignatian corpus In its broadest application That is All the works that are attributed to Ignatius who's the Bishop of Antioch Who was martyred between 107 and 108 109 all of those dates?

We don't have Records someplace that say that. There's a reasoning process that goes into coming up with these numbers and and that's what I was taught in seminary.

And.

I had a real interest in those things. So I I got the Best editions you could get at the time in the 1980s Bishop Whitefoot's Introduction and his translation and the Greek text and and that's what I've always used and most people back in those days that's that's what everybody used.

And By that point in time It had become recognized that a lot of what was attributed to Ignatius Had nothing to do with Ignatius it was written long after. It's when it's hard to say. When you look at the Ignatian corpus Generally what you hear people talking about is the middle recension which is generally called the Genuine epistles there are seven.

And.

The generally accepted idea and this is what I've always taught as well. It's what I was taught what I've taught others that these were written as Ignatius was going from Antioch to Rome to be martyred.

Now why they would do that is An interesting question that people have brought up since then. Why why would you? Spend the money. To send somebody from Antioch all the way to Rome to execute them because it would be highly unusual for the The people in Rome who are gonna see this execution know even who this guy was.

Some of the Christians might but anyway. But anyway allegedly as he's going to Rome he writes these seven letters and.

Then the.

Longer recension.

Is.

Especially in the in the Latin is generally in the Latin and has. If you compared that with the middle recension considered to be genuine in Greek. It's hard to it's hard to even figure out how they're related.

I mean, there's just so much added stuff and Redaction and editing and and stuff like that and then you've got a shorter recension in Syriac that's Basically based on the middle recension. But edited down when by whom?

Nobody knows. Nobody knows.

So.

This is the Ignatian corpus and some of the pseudo Ignatian stuff is. Pretty wild pretty crazy there's. Believe it or not. There's a letter that allegedly Ignatius wrote to the Virgin Mary while she was still alive asking questions.

Of her.

Just just and you can find you you can find Roman Catholics even to this day. Promoting that kind of thing as part of tradition. You know, there's a tradition that says this as a tradition that says that.

Well. It's a tradition that has no connection to history, but there you go so.

The.

The works that are attributed to Ignatius. No one else that I know of Polycarp, you know, you don't have that kind of complexity with books like the Didache or the Apostolic Constitutions or Irenaeus.

Any of the second century writers. Justin you just now will you have later? Forgeries attached to pretty much all their names. I haven't I haven't run into a pseudo Irenaeus stuff, but yeah, that was the whole point was you had people Will use those better-known names to get their books going and so there might be but to have entire recensions.

To where you have to identify them as the longer and the shorter in the middle and they're in different languages. And all the rest is kind of stuff. Ignatius's epistles are a mess and I'm not even talking now about Variations in What's considered to be the genuine Ignatian epistles such as textual variation.

Because the earliest manuscripts that we have of the gen what it called the genuine epistle and remember that's a that's a modern term. Nobody 500 years ago was talking about the genuine 600 years the genuine Ignatian epistles.

That's post Renaissance. After people started going. Oh, hey, we need to look for anachronism and stuff like that. So that's more of a modern description.

And.

You know those the earliest manuscripts we have for the genuine epistles are from the 11th century. That's a thousand years After the earliest dating. That we would that we would give to Ignatius's epistles again.

Normally the earliest you'll find will be in the first decade of the second century. So 107 108 somewhere on it so I get asked this question and I have been having conversations over the past number of weeks and months with a brother Who may get to join me next week to talk about this stuff once we're back to the Big studio and we can put stuff up on the screen.

I'm in a hotel room. I can't even I can't even show you text. I can't put the Bible text up. I can't put Ignatius up. I can't put anything up right now. We're gonna fix that eventually. It will be available.

Even if I have to do an emergency Driving trip like I just did but I can't right now. So I'm somewhat limited. You know, I don't have my normally I'd have light foot in my hand right here something like that well.

Is on there somewhere? Because I have that in accordance and stuff. But I can't show that to you. So I'm somewhat limited as to how in-depth I can go right now.

But.

This gentleman and I have been his brother and I have been chatting and he's been throwing this stuff at me. What do you think about this? What do you think about that? And he's throwing.

Articles.

That I've not seen before. They are they've they've come out and I forgot to forgive me let me pull this up here. Open the recent. Of course you're not gonna make this easy for me. Although a lot of this stuff has been put together.

Here it is since I was the seminary and since I last taught in this area and Pretty much from Starting in 1990 and then and really in the past 20 years There have been all sorts of articles that have been pointing to serious problems with the standard story that has been told about Ignatius.

And.

You know, they come to different conclusions. Some can go to radical conclusions questioning whether Ignatius existed. But most of them were just focused on well the dating doesn't seem right here. They're they're raising questions of anachronism and anachronism is the whole issue that you know We've looked at before talking about that and I.

And by the way, it was Lorenzo Bala who first sort of recognized that there was the problem of anachronism by comparing the current manuscripts Latin Vulgate with Jerome's commentaries on the scriptures and he demonstrated that The texts in the Vulgate had been changed over time in comparison to what Jerome Jerome's gonna put his own translation in his own commentary.

So but Jerome's commentaries aren't gonna be copied as often as The text Latin Vulgate and so I just point out that when Bala did his work He didn't publish it because to Publish that kind of stuff Would have resulted in his being burned.

So there were other issues Going on at this particular point in time. And of course that would have been burned by Rome. So anyways This this brother, well, I guess if I'm gonna if I'm going to Possibly have him on next week.

I'm talking about Timothy Easley and Some of you on Twitter may have been following some of the stuff. He's commented on this. I got the feeling he said recently He was gonna sort of drop the Ignatius stuff for a while.

Well, sorry It's all your fault. Anyways. So Timothy sent me one article that I looked at. This was in currents and biblical research 2020 volume 19.

And I.

Will undoubtedly Slaughter this name because I've never heard of the gentleman before. Doesn't mean anything. This is he's in the liberal arts department Presbyterian University and Theological Seminary in the Republic of Korea.

Jonathan Lucadou or Lucado. I would say Lucado. Probably a lot of vowels there. But anyways, let me let me read you the Abstract and then a little bit of the introduction of this. The title is the date and authenticity of the Ignatian letters.

An outline of recent discussions. That's really useful to give an outline of recent discussions. This article examines recent studies of the date and authenticity of the letters of Ignatius of Antioch.

Although the debate has a long history. This article focuses on the most recent period of this debate from roughly 1997 through 2018. While not wanting to diminish the differences between contributors to this debate three general views can be adduced.

This article begins by highlighting the major players and formative contributors to each view of. Particular note in this most recent phase of debate is the separation of the date of the letters from the question of their authenticity.

The article next turns to consider the primary pieces of evidence that are utilized when considering Ignatius's date. The historical value of the Eusebian evidence the possibility of interpolations within polycarps Philippians.

Another one of the early references to Ignatius and Ignatius's interactions with second sophistic rhetoric. The conclusion inquires about whether there is other evidence that might be utilized to aid scholars and dating.

Evaluating the Ignatian letters more securely and then in the introduction. Although the authenticity of the Ignatian letters has been disputed since at least the 17th century I'm gonna skip over all the names and dates.

Since you're probably not gonna be writing them down anyways. Since 17th century the debate has received renewed energy since the late 1990s and shows few signs of slowing. While Ignatian scholars have continued to study the various textual recensions in which Ignatius's letters are found The ongoing discussion about date and authorship interrupts the consensus that Ignatius's letters are authentically Ignatian and date to the early 2nd century.

This consensus was worked out in large part by Theodore Zahn and JB Lightfoot Lightfoot the material that I generally used in school and when teaching. Although Ignatian authenticity was challenged during the 20th century by Tramiel Weisenberg and skip the names Elicited them of most Immediate responses.

The consensus held through most of the 20th century.

However.

It remains difficult to explain every peculiarity within the Ignatian letters if they are dated early in the 2nd century. Reinhard Huebner's work on 2nd century theology Thus inspired hope and at least one Ignatian scholar during the 1990s that our understanding of the letters date and authenticity would be sharpened.

Citing Huebner Christine Trevith wrote that Reinhard Huebner may shed light on this issue in the near future. While Huebner's arguments have hardly settled the issue of when Ignatius's letters should be dated His studies have had a powerful effect on all Ignatian scholarship that has followed and have opened the possible dates for Ignatius's letter To include any of the years between roughly 105 and 180.

Okay, that's a that's a major shift. Okay. This article examines recent scholarship on the question of the date and authenticity of the middle recension Also called the genuine letters of the letters of Ignatius of Antioch.

It begins by looking at the work of Huebner and and it goes on so I again it's it's titled the date and authenticity the nation letters and outlining recent discussions, but so why. Why read all that well.

There is a video That Timothy sent me and my recollection is this is a Roman Catholic fellow who's just about to finish his PhD In Ignatius and he had all sorts of graphs and charts in this YouTube video Laying out the real sticky questions about How we know what we claim to have known for a long time About the dating origin source relationship recensions editing All sorts of stuff like that and.

Some of it.

You know, I was I was playing and having a conversation with him eventually when I had a little more time to delve into it. You know some of it is saying is dealing with stuff like I think Ignatius is dealing with this subject here and That didn't come about until like 160 well if you're familiar with Like Bart Ehrman's stuff where he denies The first second Timothy Titus Ephesians Colossians were written by Paul.

He does that Based on his Formulation of what he thought the early church looked like and since first second Timothy and Titus present a Advanced state of the organization of the church that he didn't think existed back then and that's why he Rejects him as being Pauline.

Well, I think that's getting the cart before the horse. And so I'm Really not sure of that kind of argumentation to be honest with you. But it's part of a lot of conversation. I skipped over the names, but there's just all sorts of articles That are cited Just in that one article.

About.

How this is being struggled with at this time and that there is this scholarly discussion going on concerning when Ignatius live. What he wrote. Do we really know what he wrote. What about the recensions?

What about the editing all this kind of stuff this subject is going on so back to the debate. Joe Hashemeyer asks me about the Texan Smyrnians and a few years ago. I would have just simply said He was arguing against the docetus.

It's very plain language. We can go here here here and moved on but since I Was looking at these articles watch the video see all these charts with all the differences and questions about this out and the other thing and since I have never Raised these issues.

I've never I've never put a little asterisk next to a citation of Ignatius. And I've cited Ignatius. I've cited Ignatius in to Muslims Unitarians Roman Catholics because when he writes the Romans even though he addresses the bishops of other churches He doesn't address a bishop in Rome because Rome had developed a monarchical episcopate yet.

So that's actually evidence of very early period here. Though some people might use that argue differently. But I had never I had never Acknowledged This new information because it was new to me. And if you think that that's somehow strange.

I remember when I Started doing a PhD work down at Pachis room a number of years ago. My dr. Vadar did his PhD under Metzger he knows textual criticism very very well. But he and I both learned about CBGM together.

And we were we were teaching these these things we were in active in these things, but but there's so much specialization That unless you start a new project it's gonna push you out of your area out of where you've taught before it's very easy for a lot of these conversations to not end up in your in your attention, so I Started To all I wanted to do was to briefly briefly acknowledge the controversy concerning the Ignatian corpus and While this new stuff I wasn't aware of I I wrote an article and it's available online in 1990 so 35 years ago Refuting the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society's abuse of Ignatius they had in 1989 they did a series of articles in the Watchtower and They just Massacred Ignatius, well, I massacred everybody.

It's very you can tell it was very purposeful. It was they knew what they were doing and When they presented Ignatius's views they only quoted from pseudo Ignatian epistles. They did not quote from the genuine epistles.

Because the genuine epistles have numerous references the deity of Christ, especially in the letter to the Ephesians and.

So I.

Had to deal with the pseudo Ignatian epitome stuff and things like that. I don't I May have mentioned The difference between the Greek and the Latin and some of the recension stuff. I don't remember if I if I actually dove into that very much.

But it's not that I wasn't aware of that element that's been going on as that article said that was just reading here from for centuries. Not that I have been doing that for centuries. My grandkids thinks I have but anyway.

And.

So I had dealt with that. At that particular point in time and 17 years ago when I did the who reads Ignatius in context videos I don't believe I got into that at all because I was just dealing with Steve Ray's use of that particular quotation.

So it would have just Dragged this off and stuff. We didn't.

So.

What I wanted to do was simply say there's a lot of questions about.

The.

Ignatian corpus and the various recensions Today. But if we take the text as we have it, this is an anti docetic polemic. And it's not presenting what you think it's presenting what Roman Catholics things.

So it wouldn't have wouldn't have taken me very long.

But.

Joe likes to interrupt. He's an attorney. And he interrupted me before I could even finish what I was saying and so I think part of the problem is there's talking over one another and I had mentioned that there that in the modern conversation.

That there's so much confusion. It has led some to question whether Ignatius even existed. I didn't say that I was questioning. But it has led some to question whether Ignatius even existed and then he's the one that brought up the term consensus.

And.

When I said, yes, it's a consensus. I was talking about the consensus is that there is a lot of serious Conversation to be had not only the what has been known for a long time About the longer middle shorter and that kind of stuff but the new conversations that are focused more upon the Middle recension and whether it contains evidence of anachronism that it's Coming from a much later time period because what if It comes from the article said between 105 and 180.

What if it is 180? Well that that changes the Emperor that was under The periods of persecution. It's still a period of persecution sure. But it changes the whole Tenor and and Content of the Ignatian story.

Now I.

Can't get into this right now because like I said Sitting in a hotel room is not the best time to doing this, but then that Leads to where their interpolations in polycarp Philippians. He mentions that because polycarp mentions Ignatius Irenaeus mentions Ignatius, but if but if Ignatius is writing late in the 180s.

What about Irenaeus and and and of course what that then means is? Well, when's the earliest manuscripts we have of their writings and it's very different. I Irenaeus is works against Gnosticism vitally important just just super super important stuff.

So it has a completely different textual character but still in general most works of antiquity the time period between when they're written our first exit manuscripts between 500 and a thousand years and that's what you have with Ignatius about thousand years.

Not so much with. With Irenaeus because his works were so widely disseminated. So we have fragments and stuff like that earlier manuscripts. And so that's not unusual to have that length of time. But we it does point out why it's so neat that we have things like the papyri for the New Testament.

Which put us significantly closer to the time of writing because the longer the the gap is the silent gap is. The harder it is to have high levels of confidence as to time origination. Transmission and stuff like that.

And by the way Timothy I saw him on Twitter last night. Someone actually wrote to him. I Remember Catholic wrote to him and said all we have of the New Testament books are copies of copies of copies. That's Bart Ehrman, by the way.

But we have the original writings of Ignatius. And I'm just like whoa.

Really?

That would be one of the greatest finds of all time that that would rival the book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price. No, we do. We do not have the original writings of Ignatius, but there are people who think these kinds of things.

So.

What ended up happening is I eventually? Was able to get back to my point in answering a cross-examination question. And point out this is a antidissettic polemic went from there then in the closing statement He went last because he went first that doesn't always work that way.

But it did in this particular debate and the problem is when you have last last you get to say whatever you want you're not gonna have any rebuttal and I Felt that Joe Heschmeyer really, you know took advantage of that Inappropriately and he said and he basically said that I'm a Ignatian mythologist I don't think Ignatius existed and I had not said that I had said that the current discussions have led people some people to believe that Ignatius didn't even exist and obviously if the origination of the sources isn't until the late second century if You're going to insist Ignatius was Bishop of Antioch at the beginning of the second century.

And he was martyred at the beginning of the second century. Well, then he didn't write those things if it's that late. So that's the issue. That's that that's what the conversation is about and I haven't come to final conclusions on a lot of that stuff.

But at least I'm looking at it and it doesn't seem a lot of other people are there's a bunch of people making comments online right now that Haven't wrestled with any of this stuff at all and it's painfully obvious and They're jumping into this not for issues of scholarship or anything like that.

They're jumping into this for clicks likes and.

We've got white now. We're gonna get him.

We know he's traveling home and he's not gonna be able to do almost anything and so we can jump on. We could do these videos. And Cameron Bertuzzi In his Twitter thread and saying The only reason he's doing this is because of how massively important Ignatius is to the demonstration of early Eucharistic sacrifice.

So.

Has has he ever responded to what I posted 17 years ago on? That very text not that I know. Could he. I don't think he could. Has ever read what I wrote in 1990 on Ignatius when I was scholar in residence at Grand Canyon College.

Frank in University. Get which one they changed me. No, I'm sure he hasn't and and wouldn't care one way or the other and so I don't the. His mind reading. His attempt at mind reading failed miserably.

It's disrespectful. It's mean-spirited.

But.

He's gonna stick with it because I understand that he and some other guys Including Joe Heshmire Are going to do a video tomorrow at one o 'clock Central Standard Time. One of the reasons I'm pushing myself to do this despite the fact that I feel still feel horrible.

Is.

I'm going to try to save them from absolutely face planting.

Because.

Anyone who listens to what I've already said here checks out the sources goes and sees the stuff from 17 years ago reads the article from 1990 listens to what I'm talking about checks it out with Lightfoot in regards to recensions and all the rest of this kind of stuff looks up the article that I just cited.

All that kind of stuff is gonna realize. Yeah, he's just talking about the current state of things and he's just trying to be honest in Dealing with the fact that Ignatius has a. Well, it's it's like, you know people sometimes get upset with me when I point out that the book of the New Testament That has the most Troubling textual history.

Is the book of Revelation. We have the fewest manuscripts of it. Probably because it fought to have inclusion in the canon. But it it's really hard To deal with it textually and That's what it's one of the reasons why you know, it's not that much of a long book and yet when the ECM of it came out.

What was that October of last year? It's four volumes. I think it's like Four thousand pages or three thousand. I forget what it's big. Because there's a lot of textual issues in the book of Revelation and people get upset with me about that.

Well, guess what? There's a lot of textual issues recension issues questions about History and things like that with Ignatius as well and one of the other things here. And so I'm just hoping these guys Will take the time to listen to this realize.

Oh, okay. He's not he's not a mythicist. He wasn't saying Ignatius doesn't exist. He was saying that there's real issues with the recensions and the text and and questions about dating. You know, there's been you know, Lightfoot was just sort of The accepted standard for a long time, but they then so was the donation of Constantine.

Right. So were the pseudo is a Dorian decretals and we all know today everybody agrees. They're frauds. So it's it's good to be careful, it's it's good to revisit what people thought was a consensus. And that's all I was trying to do in answering the question.

But then by misrepresenting me and I challenged him after the debate I came up to us that I really didn't appreciate the fact that in your closing statement and he apologized now I'm not sure what he's gonna say on the video tomorrow.

And like I said, I I might my strong recommendation to them is don't do it. You're.

You.

Just just think about for a second, why aren't we talking about the substance of the debate? This was a cross-examination question this isn't about Hebrews 10 or Hebrews 7 or or Malachi 1 or any other things that were discussed.

This was a contextual comment that got interrupted and Terms were introduced to it by Hesh Meyer. That he seemed to misunderstand and evidently other people have misunderstood as well and so it's just really weird That you would focus upon a cross-exam question that the topics not even the topic of the debate.

And.

It was how many seconds? You know Taylor Marshall grabbed hold of it and look I'll be honest the whole reason for this is to try to do damage to me and It's dishonest. It's it lacks integrity. It lacks scholarship and So I would just say to anybody thinking about doing that video Hey, if you want to face plant and destroy your integrity, I can't stop you, but I'm trying to help you right now.