September 6, 2021 Show with Dr. Jason Lisle on “The Current U.F.O. Controversy: A Christian Astrophysicist Responds” AND “Fractals: The Secret Code of Creation”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all happy Labor Day on this sixth day of September 2021.

And as many of you know, especially if you watch Tucker Carlson on Fox News, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence finally released their declassified report on unidentified flying objects or UFOs back in June, which has attracted the serious attention of those who are not a part of the fringe groups normally associated with UFO enthusiasts.

And we're going to have today a Christian astrophysicist respond to this. He is one of my favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. If Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries calls somebody brilliant, I think that warrants serious attention be given to that individual.

His name is Dr. Jason Lyle and he is a Christian astrophysicist, a popular speaker and author and founder of Biblical Science Institute, also known as BSI. Later on in the program, we're also going to be addressing Dr. Lyle's brand new book, Fractals, The Secret Code of Creation.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Jason Lyle.

Well, thank you. Thanks for having me on.

Oh, it's a thrill to have you on, brother. And tell our listeners, for those of my listeners who missed your previous interviews here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, or perhaps they are among the minority in my audience who are brand new believers and they might not even be Christians.

And they may be unfamiliar with Biblical Science Institute. So why don't you tell our listeners about that?

Well, there's this modern philosophy that to be a Christian is to be anti-science. And nothing could be further from the truth. Most of the founding fathers of science were Christians. They expected to find order in the universe because people that science, when you understand, will teach us.

The Bible is, therefore, when the Bible touches on matters of science, which it occasionally does, it's certainly right. And I, in particular, specialize in defending that modern organisms remain the same kinds throughout history.

And I must say, being a young earth creationist myself, that it is a breath of fresh air hearing from someone such as yourself, who is an actual scientist, who is holding firm to the young earth explanation of a literal six-day creation.

And I do have quite a number of friends who are old earthers. I've even interviewed some. Disagree with them on this issue, obviously. But one thing has troubled me greatly is when some of the old earth creationists that I am personally familiar with really disparage the integrity of those scientists who are young earthers, sometimes even stooping to the level of mockery and so on.

And that really grieves me deeply. And it's so refreshing, as I said, to have somebody, especially somebody of your caliber, speaking out in defense of the young earth account that is spelled out there in the scriptures.

If anybody wants more details on Biblical Science Institute, you can go to their website, which is biblicalscienceinstitute .com. That's easy enough to remember. Biblicalscienceinstitute .com. And I know, Dr. Lyle, that you do accept invitations to speak at churches and schools and other places like that.

Do you care to share any information, in case we forget to mention this later on, how anyone can get in touch with you to set up a speaking engagement?

Yes. If they just go through our website, there's a contact. Contact us. Go down to the bottom there and put anything you'd like to have me out there to speak. I'm happy to do that. We are booked through the rest of the open.

We do it in the works, but we'll try to get back.

I am assuming that when you speak at places, you have visuals, especially if you're going to be talking about something like fractals, which are absolutely breathtaking phenomena of nature. So that's good to know.

Yes, yes, indeed. I do talks on astronomy, on fractals, and I have a PowerPoint that goes with it. I think that really helps people if they can visually see something to go along with the presence.

Great. Well, I'm going to give our listeners our email address right away, so if they have questions, either on the UFO phenomenon or on your new book on fractals, or anything else related to science and Christianity and the Bible, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves some kind of a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are fully convinced that unidentified flying objects are spacecrafts from other planets, and so on. You don't want to identify yourself publicly in regard to that belief, or anything else that would be a personal and private issue.

You disagree with your own pastors on certain issues we're discussing, or you're a pastor yourself. You disagree with your fellow elders. You disagree with your denomination. Well, we would understand that those things would compel you to desire to remain anonymous, but please, if it's just a general question, please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Well, I don't know if you are as big of a Tucker Carlson fan as I am. I don't believe in everything Tucker says. I have some disagreements with him from time to time. But he has been really, in the media, seemingly in the forefront of covering this whole issue of the releasing, by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, this declassified report on unidentified flying objects.

And when you watch these television reports on this, gone are the days when it's just Bubba and Earl and a swamp in Louisiana who are claiming to see these unidentified flying objects. You have more frequently the testimonies of eyewitnesses that include pilots and people involved in the aerospace industry and so on, scientists who are very familiar with the whole controversy.

And the things that you hear repeated time and time again is that whatever these objects are, they are not, they say these things with certainty, they are not crafts or objects that have been created by any earthly scientific community from any country.

They will rule out China and Russia. They will rule out the United States as well, of course. They will say that a human being manning a craft, making the maneuvers that these crafts make and going at the speed that these crafts make could never survive.

They will say all types of things that would lend one, especially after getting their imaginations set ablaze, that would lend one to start thinking, well, maybe there are aliens. There is life, intelligent life, perhaps far more intelligent than human life, that exists in other planets.

So tell us how you are reacting to this.

In my view, honestly, and I know people are going to get mad at me for this, but in my view, it's much ado about nothing. Because as an astronomer, I have a lot of experience. Frankly, I know what it is because I'm an astronomer.

But if somebody was next to me and they didn't know, they would say, well, what is that? A good friend of mine, I was with him just a few months back, and he said, Jason, what is that? He pointed it up, and I know what that is.

That's a bug crawling across your eyeglass lens.

That can happen, too.

You know, when people are, especially if you're looking through a window, if you're looking through a window, I would immediately discount anything you see because you can get internal reflection. You can see something that you think is way out there when, in fact, it's light behind you, you know, in your own home.

Or maybe in a car, you're riding in a car, and you see something. As you're turning, you see this light, actually a reflection of Venus. So if you're looking through a window, you can see that you think you're seeing that are far away.

They're, in fact, close. So that's just something to keep in mind. And I'm aware of a lot of this phenomenon. If people were not aware of that, then to them, it would be a UFO. And I guess that's the thing I want to emphasize, is that a UFO is sky.

You think you're seeing the sky, but you don't know what it is.

Well, you just said that you knew what these things were. So I'm dying to hear what your answer is.

Well, it depends on what people are looking at. The most commonly reported UFO is Venus, the planet Venus. A lot of times when it's low in the sky, I used to work at an observatory. We'd get phone calls, what is that in the West?

And I'd say, well, man, that's the planet Venus. You'll see these lights that are doing these crazy things. But you don't get it when there's a way light. If you didn't know what they were, to you, they'd be UFOs.

But I know what they are. Well, what about the film that they keep repeatedly showing over and over and over again.

On Tucker Carlson and other programs? It clearly appears to be some kind of a craft. I mean, it stops in midair. It does a 180. And some of these pilots and other people who have seen these things and captured them on film, they have said that some of them even plunge into the water and so on.

So that couldn't be Venus if it's actually plunging into the sea.

Right. Some of them we know are Mylar balloons. Because it turns out that when you're moving in a jet and you see something, it's very hard. See, unless you know the distance to that object, you don't know what its true speed is.

You don't know if it's a fly inside your facetious example or something that's very far away that's moving very quickly.

You can't tell.

And there have been instances where pilots have seen it moving at high speed, but in fact it's due to the parallax. And they tend to be associated. And cruise ships will have parties, and they'll release Mylar Dismal video.

And it looks, I can tell you, I don't know what the object is. It could be a balloon. But I can tell you that the way images are processed in CDs, we have these charge-coupled devices. In the military, they use the same type of equipment.

And if you oversaturate the object, if it's too bright, it'll bleed into the surrounding, like a little saucer, like a little planet Saturn. And I know that because I've taken pictures like that with my own telescope, and I've seen that effect.

And if you reduce the exposure, it goes away. So I've seen one where it looks like that's rotating, and that's because the camera's rotating and it flips the image. But from their perspective, it looks like the thing's rotating.

So those are just two examples rays are produced. Two, it would be an unidentified flying object.

Right. The term ignorance does not necessitate stupidity in the description, because everyone is ignorant in some realm of study. We are all ignorant about much of what is found in the Scriptures, because to claim that we knew every single thing with perfection in the Scriptures would claim to be God.

So, obviously, the unsearchable riches of the Word of God can never be completely understood with perfection, and that would go with everything else. One of the things that's frustrating about all of this is, why is it that we are in the 21st century, and the films of these flying objects still look like they're from 1952 or something?

Why is it that we are unable to capture in brilliant, vivid, crystal-clear detail these objects and other things, for that matter, when they're being filmed from an aircraft? I just don't understand the lack of development of technology at this stage of the game in history.

I think that's an example of what's called selection bias. You see, if we did have a high-resolution image of this, you'd say, oh, that's clearly a Marlboro balloon, and it wouldn't be classified as UFO, it would be an IFO.

I know what that is. So, obviously, it's only the ones that are low-quality that remain unidentified, at least for the person who's looking at it. So, I think it makes perfect sense, in my view, that UFOs are simply based on what people don't know about the sky, and therefore, if you had a high-resolution, very high-quality image, you would know exactly...

Now, does technology exist where they can film things from aircraft that are much more vividly clear than what we are seeing?

Well, sure.

If it's close enough, I mean, I've seen... I mean, I've taken pictures of airplane windows with my iPhone. You can get pretty good quality. Something that was... You know what it is. You could identify it, and then it wouldn't be classified as UFO.

Either way, you can't quite tell what it is, that it opens up the possibility that I don't know what it is, and therefore, it's a UFO. So, I guess my main point is, if people would study more about optics...

Granted, you're not required to do that, but I'm saying if you did, a lot more UFOs would become IFOs. It would be identified to me as an astronomer who has some experience with the sky and with optical conclusions.

That is a leap. No, it doesn't follow logically. It just means you don't know what it is, because you don't identify with things that we see in the sky. If we studied a little bit to you, it's an unidentified flying object.

Now, I'm assuming, then, that you are open to the idea, in the realm of possibility, that these are crafts that have been designed and created by some of our enemies, like the Chinese, like the Russians, or whoever.

Probably not the Russians, but explain. Is that something that you consider, seriously, as a reason for our grave concern?

Well, yes. I mean, we can build aircraft that can do some amazing things, and under certain conditions, they can be stealthy, they can absorb radar, and fly the... Human beings can build stuff. Other nations do that, and they don't always tell us their latest research, and we don't always tell them our latest research.

We want to keep certain military secrets. So, you've seen video footage of, I think, have a much more mundane... I have some familiarity with. One example is, it's something up here to have the image.

So, for example, I have them with, but nonetheless, I do...

Now, a lot of people will say, and this is obviously, since I brought it up, something that I'm puzzled about myself. Why is it that these, or this phenomenon, is baffling even experienced seasoned pilots and other people, even in the scientific realm?

Perhaps, I'll throw in there, is there some within the scientific community who are in the forefront of titillating our imagination with these things? Do you think that they're being dishonest, just like many are in regard to COVID, in regard to masks, in regard to the vaccines, in regard to abortion, in regard to transgenderism?

Is this just another thing that some in the scientific community are being dishonest about, just either to gain popularity? And obviously, I know you're not a mind reader, but perhaps you even know where this might be the case.

You have a lot of connections in the scientific community. I'm not asking you to name names, but it just seems really strange that there are a number of people that should not be surprised by these things if they were as mundane as you're describing them,.

Who are baffled.

Yeah, well, just statistically, there's a lot of people on the planet, and a good fraction of them are dishonest. So I'm sure that's a possibility, but I'm not on that issue. I can tell you that we try to be biblical, we try to be honest, because we've never experienced anything like a UFO, nor anyone that I know, even at the university of them, I think, tried to be honest, and I think they had a sense of integrity, and so I've never seen anything like that.

So it seems to me that people who are experts, especially in astronomy and optics, tend to not see UFOs because we know what they are. I've seen a lot of stuff, but that's kind of, I know what it is, a mundane explanation.

So you're saying that those in the scientific community who seem to be saying, or not even seem to be, who are saying with absolute assurance that they can tell the speed at which these objects that are being filmed are traveling, you are saying that they are way off, when they are saying things that defy physics, as we know it, and that defy any human craft that has ever been created?

Well, I'm saying I don't know any experts who have made that kind of claim. Now, there may be some, but I can tell you it's very easily fooled. The distance is very hard for us to calculate beyond about 30 feet or so.

Beyond about 30 feet, we use other clues to try to fool. You can see, I remember, from a jet, you can see another plane, and due to parallax, it might look like it's moving the wrong way. It might look like it's caused a parallax effect.

It's really interesting, and so it's very easy to be fooled by information. And something about, I figured there'd be a lot less UFOs.

Yeah, well, isn't there a difference, though, between something that we're seeing with our eye, our naked eye, and something that's been captured on film and be able to take to a laboratory and so on?

Absolutely.

But even with things like film and CCDs, there are certain things where you'll see something that's not there. I'll give you one quick example. I've taken a lot of, and it looks like, and it has to do with the internal reflections.

Of the camera.

So even things like film, which we think of as infallible, it has to be processed, too. Whether it's digital or the old-fashioned stuff, it has to, it goes for seeing. It is processed, and there are certain, so I know that's kind of the, and I have to be honest, in my experience, they call UFOs if they don't.

On the other hand, I've heard that you actually have captured a living Bigfoot. I'm only kidding. I'm going to read a question from a listener and then have you answer it when we return from our first break.

We have a first-time listener, and I'm assuming this may be a nickname, Jam Mac. He is from Santee, California, San Diego County, and he asks, What do you think about the TAC UFO? Oh, the Tic-Tac UFO, yes.

What do you think about the Tic-Tac UFO seen by the U .S. Navy off the coast of California? We'll have you answer that when we return. And again, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.

If you would like to join us with a question of your own, give us your first name, at least, city and state of residence and country of residence. We'll be right back with Jason Long.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. My friend, Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia, once again for the G3 Conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th, through Saturday, October 2nd, on the theme, Christ is Supreme Over All.

I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and singing, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison,.

And Virgil Walker.

For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com. Chris Arnson and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G321. This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

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The Tic-Tac UFO, Military Footage, and Demonic Explanations

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire two hours is Dr. Jason Lyle, who is the founder of the Biblical Science Institute, known as BSI, and he is also an astrophysicist and an author, and we are discussing the current UFO controversy, and we are also going to be entering into a discussion on fractals in the second half of the program.

If you have a question, send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. As you likely remember, Dr. Lyle, before the break, Jam Mac from Santee, California, asked what your thoughts are on the Tic Tac UFO caught on camera.

I've heard of that one. What I've not seen is good video footage where I can see something moving that has sufficiently high quality for me to be able to, and that Bob T to truth. They'd rather have an answer.

In science, we're trained to kind of hang back and wait till the data...

It's interesting that you say that, because when it comes to the holy scriptures, the vast majority of the public have the exact opposite preference. They want it to be open to all kinds of interpretation.

Yes. Well, the scriptures are both true and certain. So that's because they come from God. They come from God.

Amen.

But when it comes to data that we... It's dang loose when we don't... Somebody, especially if, you know, my friend saw this happen. What do you think that is? Well, I don't have the information. Now, if you're standing there next to me, we're both looking at something you pointed out.

If it's in the night sky, and you say, what's given up details? What are the details they gave you?

Yes. So I'm assuming, then, the tic-tac UFO, as it has been nicknamed, is another one of those instances of a UFO caught on film that is claimed to be traveling at speeds higher than any known craft of human origin and traveling at speeds and making maneuvers that would kill a human pilot.

You're saying that there is not enough information from those films to ever come close to making those kinds of determinations.

Correct. Distance, in particular, it's very tricky to get. If you look at these drones, people fly drones now. Drones can do things that are very, very quick. And if you assumed that it was actually much...

You would assume that it would be small and nearby. There's a company you can hire, by the way, that actually, yeah, it's man-made. I know the company that makes them. And you can hire them. There's nothing nefarious here.

Well, Jam Mac, please email me your full name and full address, because guess what? You have won a free copy of the book that we are going to be addressing in the second hour, Fractals, the Secret Code of Creation, by our guest, Dr. Jason Lyle.

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We want to thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, as well, CVBBS .com, who will be shipping that book and Bible out to you. And, of course, we want to thank our friends at Master Books for publishing this latest work by Dr. Jason Lyle.

We thank Master Books for always providing excellent resources, especially in the realm of science from a Christian perspective. Let's see here. We have John and Bangor Main, who says, I have heard Chris Arnzen interview in the past some guests who are familiar with the UFO phenomenon, who believe that these could be explained in some of the occasions as demonic manifestations, just as some of the apparitions of Mary have been over the centuries.

What is your reaction to those claims?

Okay, well, I'll give you my thoughts on that, are that when I read the scriptures, and spirits are normally invisible, the spirit, but he's unique, because he did it in the Incarnation. Angels are spirits, and occasionally they appear as a decree of God.

God can create a temporary body for an angel to manifest and to do what they need to do to interact with human beings. We see that a lot in the Old Testament, especially, and some in the New Testament, would argue no.

And one of the reasons I would say that, they said it's a spirit. And Jesus' counter, they could know that he's not a manifestation of a spirit, because he has flesh and bones. They could touch him. They could feel him.

He was visible. Demons could do that, if they could mimic that. And therefore, he's not going to make a battering. That being said, we know that demons, that they have that power.

A friend of mine,.

Before he became Christian, he expressed a fiction answer.

Well, how would you exegete, just out of curiosity in relation to this, 2 Thessalonians 2 .9, you know, the man of evil will come by the power of Satan. He will have great power. And he will do many different false miracles, signs, and wonders.

Signs require something that you could see. So, why would this not be something that could possibly fit in the realm of the demonic manifesting somehow an aerial phenomenon that has come to be believed by many.

In fact, maybe someday, the majority of humans as extraterrestrial life when it is nothing more than an illusion of some kind. From a demonic source, I mean.

Yeah.

Well, again, in my view, Satan's power is limited to what God says he can do. And there is, because they're spirits, and so they have access to different kinds of information. There's even a passage in the Bible that talks about a woman having a spirit of divination.

And so she was able to maybe do even that could not be known merely by a human being due to the influence of the spirit. But that doesn't mean that they can make creation. That's something that he reserves to himself.

Now, of course, on that, we can't, for example, be demon-possessed. Unbelievers, under certain circumstances, can be demon-possessed, where the demon can kind of control their behavior. But that doesn't mean that they can make things of that nature.

So Satan can do, but it's not that UFOs in that nature. And again...

Well, thank you, John in Bangor, Maine. And guess what? You've also won a free copy of Fractals by our guest, Jason Lyle. Make sure we have your full mailing address there in Bangor, Maine. Well, going back to the explanation of the demonic realm, and forgive me if I'm asking you to repeat something that you already said, but somehow missed it.

You're saying then that somebody would be in complete error saying that the demonic realm can manifest something that the human eye can see, but doesn't actually exist in the physical realm. You're saying that that does not happen.

Well, I guess I'm thinking that demons can't manifest physically, because then Christ would be making a bad argument. Whether they can influence, that would be something that finds a leash on what Satan can do.

He still...

And there doesn't seem to be, really, to be honest, a lot of motivation for that, for Satan to go out and try to convince people that they're not aliens. So I don't think that's the best explanation. I have to give you my view, as an astronomer, that the most...