Adam Harwood's Presentation

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five. Three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James White.

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line on a Thursday afternoon. We're actually doing it at the normal time That's twice in a row twice in one week actually doing it at the time. We're supposed to do it Which is probably confused people like wonky and other people that just expect it to be at some other time Unless you're still working on the daylight savings time thing that just happened.

I don't know. Well, we'll see. Anyway, I Had the opportunity yesterday of listening to Dr. Adam Harwood's presentation at the John 316 conference. Thanks to those who sent in the CDs of the John 316 conference and I only found out Just a little while ago that I didn't need to do that.

Nope didn't need to do that because I Had a little booklet From the Free Church Press, which is also known as Peter Lumpkin's Called born guilty a Southern Baptist view of original sin, which guess what? happens to be the exact You know, I you know, I just looked at this it I don't think it says that in here But it happens to be the exact transcript of What was said and I don't know which came first.

Maybe dr. Harwood just read this It sort of felt a little Red like it was being read or something like that, but I thought maybe this way he spoke. I don't know but It's Interesting stuff very interesting stuff.

And I guess the one advantage was in listening to it. He actually plays a clip from John Piper and once I Got the book then I was able to find the clip myself and Do a bunch of other stuff which we'll be doing later on in the program and we'll respond to that.

We'll look at it and It was a very interesting presentation. We will take a look at that. But before we get to that I have James Swan points me to very interesting things regarding the Roman Catholic Church and Catholic answers and Couple days ago I think it was yesterday.

I remember it was anyways, he directed me to a clip and he's now posted on his blog of a person from the Catholic answers forums calling us Steve Greg Steve Steve Greg. Yeah, remember we had a debate on on the doctrines of grace long ago.

He has a radio program the narrow path and So you've got and he had Tim Staples on I think for like five days They did a debate thing and the funny thing is Tim Staples talks about that debate markets that debate for some odd reason Tim Staples doesn't market the debate that we did on on You know anyway Let's find that sort of funny, but I I want to play Portions not all of just a little less than half of This phone call and it's interesting What I believe the fellows name was Adam had to say a lot of Adams Adam Harwood now I think this guy's name was Adam.

I think it was and Also Steve Greg's response to what was What was being said? So it's rather interesting. So let's take a listen to Adam from the Catholic answers forums calling in to Steve Greg's program You know, that's I can work well unless I let's plug it all the way in remember I had moved it over to the other side.

So let's try it one more time. Here we go.

Let's talk to Adam from Seattle. Adam. Welcome to the narrow path.

Hi, I just had a question and you said you couldn't find certain from Catholic doctrine in the Bible. Yeah, how do you explain. You can't find it, but people like Scott Hahn Tim Staples Carl Keating can find these doctrines in the Bible.

Well, let me tell you with 38 ,000 different denominations. It seems like there's a lot of confusion now.

People are saying it's not Adam. It's Adams ski or something. Well, he says Adam. So he identified him as Adam. So that's the name he gave. The number keeps growing it's it's it's now from 33 ,000 to 38.

Oh. When when oh when. Will these folks ever stop lying about this? It's just amazing. I'm sure Adam actually believes this. I he's he's heard his heroes repeat it over and over and he just doesn't question him.

So he just just repeats it but it is.

Amazing to keep hearing that bogus. Maybe they should just grab the number from the national debt. And yeah.

That many Protestant churches are 16 trillion plus Protestant churches soon to be 17 trillion Protestant churches and. Sadly, one of those two numbers is a real number and the other is. But anyway, so Adam Adam wants to know How come Steve Gregg can't find these things in the Bible but Tim Staples can.

Well. It's pretty obvious why that is actually I think rather obviously, but the point is of course, that's um, they're not 38 ,000 Denominations and it was really nice if these folks would actually, you know, do a little homework and discover that for themselves.

But they just it just rolls and there is you know, Episcopalians. Mary Kate people. Baptists don't drink, you know. Episcopalians, well y 'all.

You know, that would be if we had a radio free Rome or something. That would be a great line. Episcopalians Mary gay people and Baptists don't drink. There's a.

Promote birth control as of 1930, but it seems like I don't have to confusion. So It's only one church that really doesn't change their teaching. There's lots of confusion. There's only one church. It doesn't change their teaching.

So.

How many times have I said this is the mindset of the Catholic answers forums? It's it's a very insulated little place where everybody just pats each other on the back and and oh we've got the one true church and and and and Isn't it wonderful and let's listen to Catholic answers live and whatever they say.

It must be true. It's it's scary. It's it is really it reminds me of some of the fundamentalist Baptist forums. I have stumbled into it a few times in the past where it's just this narrow little world and there's nothing outside of this narrow Little world and we don't want to run into it in that kind of stuff.

It's it's really scary and I'm sure he actually biz are our teachings ever change now the fact that if you were critically listening even to some of his favorite people I Found very interesting. There's this ongoing conversation right now, and I think there's a little bit of fear among some people.

That you're gonna have There there's there's a lot of discussion of the fact or the theory that Francis the first was runner-up last time when Ratzinger won and In the votes in amongst Cardinals and They have very different views of things and This may be coming out rather quickly.

Especially because there's all this discussion I just love people who are constantly talking about how the one true church helps you to escape from the Trap of solo scriptura and all the rest of stuff, but there's this This this constant discussion About well, you know Ratzinger gave us and Authoritative interpretation of Vatican to or certain documents in Vatican to well why do you need an authoritative interpretation of what's supposed to be an authoritative interpretation and Doesn't the authoritative interpretation now need another authoritative interpretation to understand what it actually said.

I mean the the the epistemological circularity of the the entire Roman Catholic claim is just it's so obvious to people outside of it. But those inside of it just don't seem to get it and I think a lot of people are afraid that the authoritative interpretation given by Benedict is going to be contradicted by the authoritative interpretation provided by Francis and What do you as a faithful Roman Catholic do you have to accept what Francis has to say?

Yeah, but two years ago you accepted it. So what? So what so what used to be a is now be no. Just way it is this way guys gotta go there gotta go there There you go, so no change ain't like that and.

So Steve Gregory replies. No, that's not a church. Oh, no, the Catholic Church has changed. They're teaching a whole bunch. Haven't you studied church history? I spent.

Thousands and hours. Okay, we've got someone here who has spent thousands of hours.

Studying the early church fathers. Thousands of hours thousands and hours. And I suggest after your radio show everybody turn to 1050 a .m. And go to listen to Catholic answers between 3 and 5.

You know what I honestly think. You know, you know what scares me here I think for Adam the thousands of hours of study is listening to Catholic answers live. Now the scary thing is I listen to Catholic answers live once.

Well, sometimes it's more interesting.

That's what. Then what's on the other stations. I need to get that sound clip from Frazier. Tell me what color is the sky in your room? I have that I have that we need to use that more often.

I I really I really do have that. I have it in my Merc set up here. It's one of my favorite my favorite clips. But anyways, I'm I'm scared that what Adam is it thinks is study is listening to Catholic answers live because I love it.

I listen to Catholic answers live Once a while is an interesting call. But most of time it is the same old thing repeated over and over and over again as this like.

Okay, well, they can do that. I've actually had Tim Staples on my show five days in a row. Mm-hmm. For a whole week. Yeah, so I mean I that's fine with me if our listeners go to Catholic answers. But I would say they should judge as they should judge what they hear here.

They should judge there.

By scripture, she asked me how does anyone can find anything in the Bible. There's. Did you catch that?

Anyone can find anything in the Bible. Wow, there is a there is a really honoring believing Understanding of Scripture right there and I just I just. The the immediate thought across my mind when I heard that was okay.

You spend thousands of hours studying what? You've been studying something other than your early church. Because where did they say that. Where do you find in the early church? Well, hey, but you can find anything in the Bible.

I could bury you under quotes from the early church father saying no there is one truth in Bible, but.

Anyway, we won't go there. How many seconds into his call. Did it take him to? Just.

One minute and 25 seconds before the Bible has been thrown under the bus and You can find anything you want to find in the Bible, it's sort of like the Spiritual Rorschach test I guess but then then we I'm gonna skip through.

There's only two other sections.

I want to play here. I think many denominations have done that. It's obvious. The Roman Catholic has done that back throughout history. I mean when you find. Okay, well when you find out that the Pope used to say that anyone who's not subject to the Pope is going to hell and now since Vatican to.

They say no not necessarily. They've changed their mind about that. They've changed their mind about lots of things.

Well, and he's exactly right and we've had an article up in the Roman Catholic section for four years where I Document this kind of change. We we had a debate. Wow, you know, I've forgotten the guy's name.

He was he was a real sort of quiet reserved guy and we we debated you know the section in the Catholic Catechism about Muslims worshiping the same God it was sort of inclusivism in in Vatican to it was in the great debate series but he was just sort of I don't know.

He really wasn't a. I'll go we'll post it here and in channel here in the next within the next 30 seconds. Bill Rutland. Thank you. Wow, wow, did you see how fast I'll go got to that one? Oh. Yikes, that was the.

I mean we call he he he he I'll go that one. That was good. Bill Rutland. Yes. Thank you. Every once in a while people just pop into the channel ago. What is this channel thing? It's really weird. What is that.

Well, it's it's 1983 technology actually that just keeps on going. But anyways. Yeah, I we have an article there that demonstrates the evolution in The obvious clear change in the Roman Catholic teaching on subjects like that and Steve Gregg was exactly right about that.

But here's here's another interesting discussion. Religious organizations have some sincere people in them, too. Now you asked me a question How is it that Scott Hahn and Tim Staples can see Catholic doctrines in the Bible that I can't I?

Asked myself that very same question, which is why I studied Scott Hahn and Tim Staples to find out exactly why they did think they found them and you know what I found out. They didn't know their Bibles very well.

I mean, it's really true. I've listened to both of them give their testimony about how they were converted. Scott Hahn was a Presbyterian theologian. He said Tim Staples said he was an assembly of God youth minister.

Both of these guys told how they became convinced Roman Catholics and They told the process they said, okay I had this problem with this scripture this Catholic guy explained it that way the light went on for me and I knew they were Right, and then there's this other scripture they brought up and I couldn't answer it from my Protestant point of view so I had to accept the Catholic point of view and it was one thing after another like that and as I listen to Scott Hahn and Tim Staples give their sort of think what.

What kind of Protestant ministers were these. Scott Hahn was supposedly a Presbyterian theologian? Does his his lack of understanding of the scriptures was incredible? I mean the when the Catholic would explain a scripture to him.

I Mean the mistake that was being made in the exegesis was transparent. It was like it was totally an agenda driven Interpretation the Catholic was given and Scott Hahn if he was any kind of a theologian should have known his Bible well enough.

I could have refuted it when I was 12 years old. And I don't know what was wrong with him and the same thing is true with Tim Staples. And I'm not saying these aren't good men. I think they're probably good men.

I Think they're nice guys. Perhaps I Tim Staples seemed like a nice guy when I debated him, but. But being a nice guy doesn't mean you understand the scriptures very well.

So there's there's Steve Gregg's explanation. I I have commented on both of the of the Conversions of these gentlemen in the past. I won't go into that right now, but. That was his his response and he did most of the rest of the call.

Adam had one brief comment toward the end as I recall. I forget what it was on. They want to get into another argument there. What was it toward the end?

The Apostles who died faithful remain the. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, he wanted to talk about apostolic succession and I thought Steve Gregg's response was fairly good that one but There's actually a thread I believe on the Catholic answers forum and for some reason James Swan got out.

Can you get the merits in the Catholic answers forum something like that? He got dinged or cited or something for something offensive. Oh, he said for joining Rome and You can't say that you have to say for joining the Catholic Church Because you have to you have to confess you have to admit their claim that they are the Universal Church if you're going to talk to them say Despite the fact that that they're they're not rather transparently, but yeah, that's just sort of how that sorry how that works.

Well, it looks like we've got the phone lines open. I was I was gonna go into this next thing, but we'll try to get through these as quickly as I can and Then get to that portion and the portion in regards to the John 316 conference and Dr. Harwood, but we've got a couple phone calls here.

We'll just take these two and if we got some room toward the end and maybe some more but I have a feeling we probably Won't so let's try to handle them fairly quickly here and talk to Robert. Hi, Robert.

Hey, Dr. James. How are you doing? I'm fine. All right. I'm just wondering I Not following you, sorry. Well, if if you if you're talking about the discussion of concupiscence and Original grace or some issues like that.

Is that what you're asking about or are you just talking about? Relationship to Adam or or what? I'm really not sure where you're going. Okay, I Not sure what you mean. Yeah, well obviously modern Roman Catholicism doesn't Travel too far away from where Augustine was and so there would be a lot of of Similarity I think what you what you find over the years is the development of Concepts of merits and a semi Pelagian ism within within certain elements of Roman theology but again, it's it's a difference between the Historic beliefs and modern beliefs.

I think I think all across the spectrum whether Roman Catholic or Protestant I don't think the vast majority of people in any Area anymore actually believe in original sin. In fact, that's what I'm gonna be talking about when I talk about this Adam Harwood presentation is I I don't think the vast majority of people really do believe in original sin obviously Rome has Played with that in regards to the issue of sacramental ism in regards to Mary there's all sorts of later developments, but I don't think the vast majority of Roman-catholics even even practicing Roman Catholics really really really believe in it and Even then when you can somehow get rid of it through infant baptism I don't think you're really recognizing the the tremendous impact it has upon the actual nature of an individual and There are very few people who I think really Profess to recognize and to and to act in light of the idea that that which is unclean is detestable inside of a holy God, I don't think a sacramental system where God's grace is doled out over time can really long Hold to deep concepts such as that but if you're looking for a historical development of the concept the original sin and Rome Catholicism That would take me quite some time to dig through because it's never been something that I've actually gotten into or debated On any level so I would have to be doing a lot of work to dig up anything more on that.

So Sorry Not not really Where I'm going this time. Thank you for your call Robert and let's real quick. Try to get James in here. Hi James Hi, dr. White. Hi for having me.

So for knowledge and for new a lot of people like to say, you know, God looked down the corridors of time. First Peter one to elect according to the foreknowledge Romans 8 29 those whom he foreknew he also predestined.

How would you explain that that is not that God looked through the corridors of time and what does it mean?

Well, if you're if you're talking about first Peter 1 2 or Romans 8 Because because Roman Romans 8 the it's it's a it's a verb. It's something God does and it's in parallel with all the other verbs of what God does and so you have to start there I think and say well What is what does it mean for God to actively foreknow someone and then once you have that?

Then when you just look at and and Romans 8 is a didactic section. It is specifically teaching. This is what God did. This is the basis of our of our Confidence in what God has done, etc, etc. And then first Peter 1 2 is an introduction to a letter and it in passing makes reference to Having discussed the those who reside as aliens scattered throughout Pontius Galatia Cappadocia Asia and Bithynia who are chosen according the foreknowledge of God the father by the sanctifying work of the spirit to obey Jesus Christ Be spring of his blood.

Well, what do you what do you have there? You have the gospel being defined as triune you have the work of the father you have the sanctifying work of the spirit and you have the the propitiatory work of of the Son and so when you look at Prognosis the the term that is used.

What does that mean. I mean does that mean that God passively takes in knowledge of future events or Given that there is a verbal form of the verb and and and that this is where we struggle because really in English when we say for know we have a certain idea of what that means for a human being it's sort of like a Forecast or something along those lines, but we cannot we cannot do what that verb says.

We can't we are finite temporal beings so we can't do. We cannot choose to enter into a relationship of love with someone who does not yet exist. So it's it's outside of our realm of experience. So what we do is we try to retranslate the concept into something we can do and so it's the corridors idea but when you simply say according to the foreknowledge of God the father all that simply means is since that's the the Actual choice of God to lovingly engage with those that he has created as he does in the golden chain of redemption.

Then that's what it's referring to just in the same way the the sanctifying work of the Spirit is something that the Spirit does. The foreknowledge of God is not just something he happens to stumble across or happens to it.

Yeah, it's not in the context of salvation Acts 2 23 he was handed over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge.

Well, I would certainly think that it is I Mean, I would certainly think that that is in the in the context of salvation. I mean the giving over of the Sun, but yeah again the the parallel. There in that particular text though again I wouldn't just because the term is saying that is the same doesn't necessarily mean that the it's being used in the same way but notice that you have Boulay being used in direct parallel with Prognosia there.

So this Jesus delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God. So Again, this is something God chooses to do. But he does so before that event. It's it's it's really When you think about what the the will of God is it's the outworking of that will in time.

It's it's what God chose to do. Just as we have an axe chapter 4 the exact same Phraseology is is utilized when it talks about Jesus being delivered over. That you have here and it's there in in the prayer of the of the church there.

It's expressed in in these words. To do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place that there you have Boulay exact same term as an axe 223 but now the parallel is proridzo, which is predestined.

So whatever. For knowledge is it's never passive. It's never God taking in knowledge of something. It's God choosing to act and he chose to act on the basis of his own will. Before the events take place in time and.

So again, if you allow these contexts to to speak to each other and to and to inform things. It makes a very very strong case that the looking down the corridors of time argument Which turns God into the passive observer of events in time has no basis whatsoever in in the text of Scripture.

Sure.

111 He works all things after the counsel of his own will in Ecclesiastes 3 1. There is an appointed time For everything is that is it a stretch? Am I reaching when I'm when if my if I take that at to mean Everything me blinking my eye everything that happened.

It was at the time that it happened.

There's an appointed time for everything or is that a stretch that reach? Well, well, I I do think that that's that that is a Appropriate understanding of God's sovereignty in relationship to his decree and the fabric of time I believe that God foreordained whatsoever comes to pass.

That's that's Certainly what my confession of faith says and I think that that really that flows from the theology of God derived in Isaiah and Jeremiah and places like that and Is really brought to fruition in in Ephesians 1 in its description of God is having done all that the only reason I wouldn't necessarily go I think what Ecclesiastes is saying in a poetic form is that the author understands that God is ultimately sovereign over all things and I've had a lot of folks.

I remember years ago Haven't seen this guy in years, but I was driving back from. Where was I driving back from. I might have been Salt Lake. I forget where it was. It was one of those many many many trips down I 17 And I was talking with this guy he's going, you know, I really like this reformed stuff and you know, I understand it's it's great.

But don't you think you know, don't you think that there's some stuff that God just doesn't really care about. I Mean, you know, does God really care about the the color of socks that I wore today or I mean Aren't there just some things that are just you know, just left out there there's just they don't have any meaning at all and therefore they're not a part of of God's God's decree and so I Told him a story and I said what if you were what if you're going downtown Phoenix?

You're going for an interview at a one of the high-rises in downtown Phoenix and and you're you're in the elevator and this guy was the door opens and You know, you've had your interview door opens and this guy walks in and lo and behold you're both wearing the same tie the exact same time and You look at each other and go man if we were if we were Ladies, we'd be really upset about this.

But you know, we're guys so we don't care. Haha, where'd you get yours and you end up, you know, the guy is you tell the guy that you just had an interview there. And it's lunchtime. So he invites you to lunch there in the in the building.

He knows where it is. And so you you go with him and you end up talking to him long story short. You end up because of this having the opportunity of presenting the gospel to him and this man is saved.

This man is saved. Now was the choice of your tie that morning outside of God's sovereign decree. Well, you'd say well because of that special situation, but as has been pointed out even the smallest tiniest little things can have a huge impact upon the entire course of time itself and I followed that illustration up with The story of my my son and I were up in Salt Lake City years and years ago, this is before his growth spurt and he was just a little squirt at the time and and this was during the days when Rush Limbaugh was still making his ties and I have a huge Rush Limbaugh tie collection.

In fact, I own one of the few Rush Limbaugh bow ties in the world. He never made a bow tie. But my favorite bow tie company you can send a tie in and they will turn it into a bow tie. So I have actually sent one of my rush ties in and I have a Rush Limbaugh bow tie, which is absolutely positively.

Completely outside the realm of this conversation. So anyways. So we I would buy these little 14-inch zip up Rush Limbaugh ties for my son. I. And so he was wearing his Rush Limbaugh tie, I was wearing a Rush Limbaugh tie and we were passing out tracks at the South Gate of the Mormon Temple during the General Conference and So I Look this would be toward the east and I see a tall man Really nicely dressed striding toward me.

And the funny thing about Rush Limbaugh ties is you see the Limbaugh tie and recognize it long before you recognize the person's wearing it. I mean, they're just that bright and it was funny because I could tell that he was wearing a Limbaugh tie and He could tell that I was wearing a Limbaugh tie and that my son was wearing a Limbaugh tie.

So when he got close he's smiling and we're smiling and because of that he took my track. You know who it was? Senator Orrin Hatch. It was Senator Orrin Hatch. Now I could have worn a different tie that morning.

I could have avoided wearing a Rush Limbaugh tie. My son might have just not even want to wear a tie. I don't know, but I got to give the man a Tie because of the alright track because the tie that I chose to wear that morning now.

There are people want to say well, yeah, but I just I didn't it just bothers me or something I don't think it should bother you. I think that when we're talking about God as the The one who creates all things including the fabric of time itself that includes his interaction with us and that includes our Creaturely actions in time and God is big enough to handle that even if our minds are not we can't even remember what happened yesterday.

Let alone have knowledge of tomorrow. So we're really not in a position of judging God on that. I agree.

I believe that but could you. Is it a stretch if it's right here in the Bible saying I would go with the Ephesians text.

I think I think that is what Ecclesiastes is saying, but it's Ecclesiastes read the whole book, you know. The thing you'd run into with Ecclesiastes that point is there's all also talks about the fact that everything's utility.

Well, not everything is utility, but it's talking about a particular context in a particular worldview. You have to put it in context. I think that's what Ecclesiastes the writer I don't think the writer of Ecclesiastes would have had any problem with what I just said.

But I would go with Ephesians 1 as the as the real strong point at that point. Okay. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thanks. All right. Yeah, boss. Bye-bye. Okay, I was surprised Vicky Ann hadn't heard that story before.

Algo, of course ruined it. Told everybody in channel before I got to the punchline because I'll go actually is my brain which was removed Years ago, and I've just been I just plug in once in a while and that's that's how that works.

Yeah, so it's a it's a frightening thing. Okay. Anyhow Get back to what I'm looking for here. Here we go. All right now We're out. I've got 25 minutes. Let's be tight as I said, I had a long Very long ride yesterday five and a half hours I was riding and got a lot of stuff that by the way finished sahih Muslim.

I am so thankful to have finished sahih Muslim I had started it a couple years ago. I had done the theological stuff first and then now I just got through the Really not theological stuff and and on a five and a half hour ride yesterday.

I finished sahih Muslim. So I've now done sahih sahih al-bukhari sahih Muslim the muwatta of Malik and if I'm gonna do another one I've found that Sunan Abu Dawood is almost completely online now so I can I can start working on that.

But I may be taking a little break from it for a while. I don't know I'm not sure if I can remember how to ride a bike without listening to Muslim hadith, but after I did that I I listened to some Justin Lee who I'll be debating in less than well about three weeks.

Yeah, three weeks from now three weeks from today and up in somewhere in the wilds of Montana as long as the plane gets me there and the Sequester doesn't cause me to not be able to get there or they close the airport or the state.

I don't know. It's it's possibility anyway, and then I I listened to James voices and this is the old voice As in Southern Seminary voices presentation on the fall of man relationship to Adam federal headship, etc, etc to hear a good historical Reformed understanding from a Southern Baptist perspective of those things and it was good stuff and then I listened to Adam Harwood's presentation from the John 316 conference and As I said just a few moments ago Discovered only today that the small booklet in my hands from free church press called born guilty a Southern Baptist view of original sin is basically just the transcript of that or or This came first and he just read this.

I don't know. I I don't I I can't tell but it's nice to have that in both forms, I Found it very interesting. There were a number of interest, you know, especially the historical stuff was interesting to Realize how many Southern Baptists have held to a view that I obviously find to be very much traditionally driven and Things like that, but what really caught my attention Was he played a clip of John Piper and He used it as an illustration and at this point I would have to agree with dr. Harwood I'm gonna be disagreeing with John Piper.

Not the first time I've done that but not a few times. But he played this clip and one of the reasons I'm he and he then said after he played the clip that Dr. Piper then went on To well here it is. Instead let's see this condition could be covered by the Okay here Piper acknowledged this in a footnote in his recent book Jesus the only way to God.

Must you hear the gospel to be saved? How does Piper think the work of Christ is received by these? Unaccountable people he speculates that infants who die will mature after death and confess Christ and I went I remember again, I Know exactly what road I was on.

I know which direction I was going about what the temperature was. It's just a weird. I'm a weird person. What can I say? So I'm like really? Hmm. Interesting, so I'm gonna play the clip and then what happened was since I found out this is this book has information.

Then I was able to find the reference. I went online today bought the Kindle book. Unfortunately the references in the transcript are to the printed edition and the Kindle book has taken the footnotes and There used to be they used to be numbered per chapter now.

They're just one big group. So I had to actually read all the footnotes To find but I found it and I will read you what? What John Piper says here, but let's let's start off. This is the the very clip.

Well, it has to be because one little short video, I don't know how long it is. It's not very long but there's one little short video here and This is this is a clip that Adam Harwood played. Here's John MacArthur.

John MacArthur. I'm sorry. Did I say that I've been saying MacArthur? No John Piper good first person saying John Piper Answering the question what happens to infants who die in infancy?