WWUTT 615 Q&A G3 Baptizing Qualified Worship Leaders?

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So, after our adventures in Atlanta, what's our review of the G3 conference?

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How young was I when I got baptized? And what are the qualifications for a worship leader?

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The answers to these questions, When We Understand the Text. This is

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When We Understand the Text, submitting to the full authority of the Word of Christ. Find a complete list of our ministry resources when you visit our website, www .utt

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.com. Now, here's your host, Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. So, Becky was criticizing me a moment ago for having to stop recording to go upstairs and get my

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Bible when I've got 20 of them on the shelf to my left over here. Why don't I just use one of those?

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And even more in that bag back there that we had just purchased. That we, well, didn't purchase. We just brought back with us from,

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I mean, what do I have back there that's a Bible? Mine is. The red one. Oh, you didn't grab it out of there yet?

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No, it's buried. Oh. Under all the other books. She's going, I got plenty of other

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Bibles that are free and out in the open that I don't have to dig for. I really want to dig for that though.

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So, it's about muscle memory. I have this one because I'm familiar with it and I know where everything is and how it's laid out and so that's why

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I use this one. Okay. Yeah. I don't have to spend, you know, those two extra seconds combing the page for the passage of it.

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My eyes will go straight to it because I know where that verse is on the page since this is the

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Bible that I'm familiar with. Right? Sure. I had to relearn,

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I felt like I had to relearn the text after I went from NIV to ESV. Oh, yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. So. Because they were updating the NIV. Right. And you said that it was just like having to relearn a new one.

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It was. So. It's totally different. It's totally different from all the editions prior to 2010. So, I had to, you know, certain keywords that I was familiar with in those verses when you'd go search for them, not a word of those keywords would even be in that passage anymore.

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But since I have to relearn the new international version, I'm just going to consider maybe

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I should be reading a different translation. Right. And so, that was when I started reading through the NASB, the

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ESV, the New King James and also the Holman Christian Standard. I actually kind of ruled that one out pretty early.

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And so, then it came down to NASB and ESV and New King James and ESV is what I settled on.

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So, at the G3 conference, you were in on this session where Dr. James White. Oh, yeah.

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Yeah. I didn't quite get all of what he was trying to joke about, but yeah.

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He made the comment that if it wasn't for the brilliant PR work of Crossway, you would be reading the

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NASB instead of the ESV. But the Lachman Foundation, who prints the

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New American Standard Bible, just is not very good with promoting their Bible. Anyway, I disagree with that because I did not know anything about Crossway or the

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Lachman Foundation when I was reviewing which translation of the Bible I was going to preach from.

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I went through the NASB and the ESV and the New King James all side by side. Right.

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And I determined. I remember that. That took a while. It did. I had all these Bibles laid out on my desk. You did. So, if you came in my office.

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It was a big desk. It was. It was a wide desk. I had all those Bibles laid out. And I think all of them were study

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Bibles, too. So, anyway. That's my mic. Oh, sorry. See, I'm making this gesture.

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It was a very large gesture. All these Bibles spread out and boom, I hit

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Becky's microphone. But anyway, so that's not how I came into the

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ESV. A lot of the teachers that I listened to were using it. It wasn't because Crossway convinced me with their excellent commercialization that this was the

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Bible that I needed to use. Yeah, because we had given up even cable at that point, hadn't we? So, if it was on TV, we wouldn't have known about it.

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Oh, yeah. It wasn't anything like that. It's just that. I guess in the pamphlets and stuff that we get. Yeah, like all the magazines that I subscribe to and the websites that I read.

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Yeah, that's true. That's true. Like World Magazine or Table Talk or any of those things. Yeah. And so, yeah,

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I wasn't susceptible to any of that. It really came down to. Well, growing up in radio,

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I'm sure you got over the whole, oh, that's neat. I'm rather jaded when it comes to commercials anyway.

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Yeah, you got a thick skin to work through when it comes to promoting. I went through all those classes talking about how you persuade people to.

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Appealing to Becky. Yes. And then he actually learned how to appeal to Becky. That's kind of an inside joke.

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Anyway, that we don't have time to go into talking about. Oh, bummer. But all of that was just to say. That's saved for another time.

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Yeah. All of that was just to say that the ESV really was the best translation for me to use in terms of preaching.

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It's an essential, essentially literal translation, so it's as close to the original Greek and Hebrew text that we can get.

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And it's an easier flow than the NASB. I agree the NASB is probably slightly more accurate, but the

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ESV just reads better. So the NASB is good for study, and then when you're communicating the word of God to the people of God, I think the

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ESV is just a little bit smoother translation to be able to use. Gotcha. So anyway, that was just to say,

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I did not agree with Dr. White's argument in that particular sense. No, just teasing.

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As it would pertain to me, maybe he's right that Crossway is just better with pushing their

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Bible than the NASB. In fact, I can say that Crossway is better about letting people even use their

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Bible. They don't put as many restrictions on the public use of the

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ESV as the Lockman Foundation does with the NASB. So you're talking like when you're writing a book and you're making a citation of the

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ESV Bible, Crossway is way more open with letting you do that than the Lockman Foundation is with letting somebody publish something from the

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NASB. Oh, really? We have a friend who had started a

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Twitter account that had NASB in the name. I can't remember what their angle was with that Twitter account.

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They just wanted to give the Lockman Foundation some assistance in helping people be familiar with the

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New American Standard Bible. The Lockman Foundation contacted them and asked them to shut down the

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Twitter account. Whoa. So that's the way they are with their Bible. They're very...

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That's interesting. Well, I mean, you can't really know what they're going to do with the label of NASB.

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So I mean, I kind of understand that they... Well, they have a new translation coming out. Well, not translation, an updated version of the

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NASB that's coming out. But anyway, we're 10 minutes in here. We're pretty close to that.

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Yeah, neither here or there. What even planning on going into this all that much? But it does lead into our first question.

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Oh, well, hey. Because of course, we were at G3 last week, Gospel Grace Glory Conference that was in Atlanta, Georgia.

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And it was cold. It was cold, at least at the start. When we got done, it was in the 60s. Oh, it was so cold.

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Yeah, but oh, we got down there, it was 20... They still had snow on the ground, which is strange for Atlanta.

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Yeah, it was 25 degrees. It was a 20 degree day. The Wednesday that we arrived, it was 25 degrees.

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It was cold. The next day, I don't even think it got above freezing, even on Thursday. I can't remember. But anyway, it...

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I think it did a little bit. Yeah. Because we were expecting the snow to melt, and it didn't. And it didn't. Like the ice and snow off the roads didn't melt, and it didn't.

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Yeah, it did not. I was thinking maybe an Atlanta 35 is a little bit better than a

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Kansas 35. Not that day. Not that day. Ooh. Really didn't. So we were planning on leaving on a

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Monday afternoon and arriving there on a Tuesday, and we didn't get there until Wednesday.

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Right. Because we had to stop... Yeah, twice. We were just gonna drive straight through. We're gonna drive straight through the night, get to my aunt and uncle's before they went to work on Tuesday morning.

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Right, so we could say hi. Yeah, say hi, veg out, and then we could take naps, you know. Yeah. Then visit my family in the evening, my folks, meaning.

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And just none of that worked out, because of all the snow and ice, we had to stop twice. We had two hotel stays we had to make on the way down.

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So we were, what did we determine, 30 hours late? Yes. By the time we pulled in.

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It took a very long time, which I'm glad, I'm very grateful, because those roads were terrible. They were bad.

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An inch of snow will shut down everything in Atlanta, whereas in Kansas, we get through a foot of snow, and they're still not gonna call off school, you know.

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So... Yeah, kinda. Yeah. I'm exaggerating a little bit, but it's still, people don't freak out around here about snow like they did in Atlanta.

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One of my favorite tweets that I saw. Tornado, though, that weather. No, that doesn't shut anything down here either.

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Everybody goes outside and looks for it. They go out to the grocery store, and they get all the bread and water. Well, that's true.

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But that's in Junction City. That's true. I mean, we have so many military families here, they don't know how to react, you know, to that.

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So, we get a threat of ice, or storms, or hail, or anything like that, and everybody goes and clears out all the shelves of the necessities at the grocery store.

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They do! Crazy. Eggs, milk, bread, all gone. So, anyway. Yeah, sorry.

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So, the G3 Conference, which is what we're talking about. You know, this is part of our experience. Yes.

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We had to go through the weather in Atlanta. We did. Anyway, I was mentioning, my favorite tweet throughout all of that was, it's absolute pandemonium in Atlanta.

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People are driving cautiously. They're using their turn signals.

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Driving the speed limit. Driving the speed limit. That was the other thing. Yeah. Anyway, that was funny. That was really funny.

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But yeah, everything just shuts down in Atlanta. My brother works at a place for a natural gas company, and two people showed up to work on Wednesday, I think it was.

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Him and another guy. And there's supposed to be like two dozen people. Yes. And then when we parked the first day at G3 on that Thursday, we didn't have to pay for parking, because no one showed up to take anybody's money.

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So, hey. It was a couple perks. Yeah, a little bit. A couple perks in there. Okay, G3 experience.

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That's what we're talking about here. Not just the outside, but the inside. So Ashley in South Carolina says,

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Dear Pastor Gabe and Miss Becky, I loved your pictures from the G3 Conference in Atlanta.

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Aw, thanks. I watched some of the sermons on the live stream, and I was wondering if you could share about your experiences at G3, if you would recommend the conference to others, and how do you think being there is different than watching it on the internet?

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Well, I can't compare watching it on the internet, because I don't have time to sit and do that.

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Have you ever watched the conference online? No. Watched the sermons? So like whenever ShepCon rolls around,

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I'm sitting in the dining room and I'm watching sermons online. But you've never done that? Okay.

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No, I can't sit long enough. The kids come and bug you. Yeah. I mean,

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I can't even get through a whole podcast, and those are like 20 minutes. So you would say that attending the

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G3 Conference, as opposed to watching it online, means that you can focus more than if you were watching it on a computer.

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A lot more distractions when watching it on a screen, when you're there and you have to sit and focus on the speakers, you're a lot more dialed in to what's being taught, to reading the word in your lap in front of you.

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And also the experience of these men who, they are just men, you know?

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You get to meet them. Yeah. You get to see them and know how they act in private, not just on a podium.

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And like when we were talking with Vodie Bauckham, just brief, very brief, he was very soft -spoken in making it a private conversation, even though there was a long line of people waiting to get their picture taken with him and stuff.

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And so that was really, really neat to see that he makes that a priority, that it's nobody else's conversation and that he doesn't need to say anything that everybody needs to hear kind of thing.

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Even though what he was saying was brilliant, he was still trying to make it very private. Yeah. And we asked him a question.

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That was really cool. We asked him a question too that I expected to be real quick. In fact, I told the person behind me, hey, we're just snapping a picture.

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I'm asking him a quick question. That's all we're doing. Because I wanted them to stick around to meet him.

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I didn't want them to think the line's too long, so I'm going to go find something else to do. Just like, we're just going to snap quick and then we're out because we got another session to go to.

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But the question that I asked him, he could have just given me the quick answer, but he didn't.

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No. He expounded on it and showed you something and it was really cool. We chatted a little bit longer than I had planned on anyway, but that was great.

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That was just how gracious he was and kind to be able to talk to us. That was wonderful. And he wasn't the only one.

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That was just an example. Right. And it's just really, really cool to see them just as people.

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I see them as you're watching, I'll look over your shoulder and whatever, and listen to them on podcasts and whatever.

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And it's just different to actually meet the person behind those. And see in person just how freakishly tall

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Todd Friel is. But you know, when it comes down to it, Bodie Bauckham's about as tall as Todd Friel, he's just stockier.

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Yes. They're both very, very tall. He's proportionately big, whereas Todd Friel is just vertically big.

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I don't know. I look up to everybody. Well, that's true. There is that. So anyway, it was a fabulous conference and I would highly recommend it.

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I had put a poll out on Twitter asking folks, which conference would you most like to attend?

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And the three that I featured were the Shepherds Conference, Together for the Gospel, and G3. And then

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I put other and add in the comments another conference that you would like to attend. Which, by the way, great feedback, because there were some suggestions in there of conferences that I had not even heard of yet.

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And some local ones. That was very encouraging. Yeah. Yeah. That was neat, too. So I appreciate that. That was good for me.

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It was educational for me. But some of the comments that we got about G3 in that particular poll was,

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I love ShepCon and I want to go, but I would rather go to G3 because I can take my wife with me.

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I saw that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So the Shepherds Conference, wonderful for pastors. And one of the reasons why they make the conference the way that they do, just focused on men and pastors, is so they're getting away from anything and all distractions.

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And they make that announcement at the start of the conference, too. Your wives aren't here with you this weekend, so there's no distractions.

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You're just focused on the tools that you need to receive while you're here to equip you for the task that is ahead of you as a pastor.

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I think that's important. It is very important. I benefited from it a lot, even though I wish my wife was with me.

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So I understand wanting to do a conference like that together. And if that's what you're aiming for, then yeah,

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G3 is the conference for you. If you're going to do G3, go as a couple. If you're going to do Shepherds Conference, you kind of have to do that one by yourself.

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Men. Right. But yeah, G3, it was wonderful. I felt like everything started kind of slow.

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I said this on the Bar podcast. I was interviewed on Biblical and Reformed. I said it felt like everything got started like really low key, but then it started amping up as it went on.

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And I really think the reason for that, though, was because of the weather. Oh, yeah. Everybody, everyone got in real late on Wednesday night.

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And so I was just exhausted. Yeah, because there were like plane. Yeah, planes were still coming in at midnight.

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Cancelled and rescheduled. Cancelled flights. Some folks were even still flying in early Thursday morning.

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And some were even like, instead of flying, they ended up driving. Yeah. Their flight got cancelled.

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They were like, you know what? I'm just driving. They didn't have any other way. Yep. And so I think because everybody was so weary from all the travel due to the weather, everything was very, you know, low key on Thursday.

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I don't know, though. Michelle had a lot of spunk in her. Michelle Leslie, that was such a fun experience to be there.

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We showed up on Thursday morning for registration. And I remember standing in the registration line.

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So it's, you know, they got the letter for our last name. So I'm standing in the line. And then I hear this squeal.

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And I look next to me. My wife's not there, but I hear squealing. So I'm like, OK, she's over there somewhere.

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So I'm like, I'm just going to finish register. I'll do the registration for both of us here. But you found

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Michelle Leslie and she just squealed at you when you when you were at her. I heard her saying, Sonia, because she was calling the friend of ours that we had brought.

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And she's like, Sonia, Sonia. And I'm like, Michelle. And I see her. I'm like,

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I'll go get Sonia. And then Michelle spots me and she's like, yeah, I heard I heard it.

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Everybody else in the hall heard it. It was awesome. Loved it. It was fabulous. So she had more energy than all of us on that first day.

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Oh, yeah. So I wish that I could say I would also recommend G3 because it's in Atlanta and you won't have any weather hindrances.

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But clearly, we can't say that. And this isn't this hasn't been the only year that they've had those weather problems.

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Right. So weird. It is weird. It's just it's only been in the last couple of years that Atlanta has had that issue.

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But otherwise, it's gorgeous. You enjoy beautiful Georgia weather the rest of the time, just for whatever reason,

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Atlanta wants to act up in January grass and places that you can see pretty.

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So if you would recommend the conference to others, OK, I answer that one. That's a resounding yes. How do you think being there is different than watching it on the

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Internet? So that's that's a combination of focus, being able to meet the people that are there.

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Yes. And it is really like a big family reunion because we had so many friends that we had met online that we got to meet at the conference.

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I mean, it's it's another one of those small taste of heaven. So it's a thing. It was really sweet. That's the way church is supposed to be.

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Church is a small taste of what heaven is going to be like as we're all rejoicing together around the throne of God.

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And then you get another taste of that at a conference like G3, because then you add in all the mix, all your other brothers and sisters that live in other parts of the country or the globe.

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Right. That that. It's amazing. Yeah, it's great. It's a wonderful experience.

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If you have the chance to take in a conference, I would highly encourage that you do G3. One of the better ones.

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And we're planning on doing it again next year. We are. And if I would, if I could recommend if you do go to a conference, don't be shy.

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Just go to people and stand in lines that you have to stand in line to talk to people. And it's more fun.

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They want to meet you. Yeah. Speaking of which, this next question actually goes with that or this next comment.

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Okay. So this is from Christie. And she says, Pastor Gabe, when I learned that you were there at G3, I wanted to meet you.

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But you are always engaged in conversation with somebody. Thank you so much for your studies through the scripture.

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I have started my mornings for the last several years at 4 a .m. with coffee, an open

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Bible, and your voice on my tablet. Your expository teaching has helped me to learn and grow so much.

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The Lord bless you, your family, and his ministry through you. And that was a comment that was left on Facebook.

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I clicked on her name and realized I did meet her husband. Oh, cool. And so he came up to me in the exhibit hall where they had all the booths and everything.

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And he said at the time that his wife wasn't with him. I can't remember where he said she was, maybe at a booth or something like that.

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So I remember meeting him, but didn't get the chance to meet Christie. So I'm sorry about that, Christie, but hey, you can interrupt me if you want to.

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I'm probably gabbing about nonsense. We rabbit trail a lot. You'd get me back on course.

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You're certainly welcome to come up and chat anytime. But it was wonderful meeting your husband. And thank you so much for listening to the broadcast.

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Sure appreciate that. Which by the way, I was on the

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Podbean page of ours recently. So our podcast is hosted through Podbean.

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I just went on to look at statistics because I hadn't looked at them in a while. And there's a part that you can click on which shows you a list of your top 10 most downloaded episodes.

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Okay. Nine out of the 10 are Q &A's and the one that isn't a

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Q &A, I did on a Friday anyway. So all top 10 episodes are

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Friday downloads. Thanks guys. See what you've brought to this program. Everybody loves the

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Q &A because of Becky. Oh, whatever. They're all episodes you're in.

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Well, that might just be a fluke. This next one.

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Praise the Lord. That's wonderful. Next question comes from, well, I'm going to hold off on that one.

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I'll do that one last. So I'm going to move down to this one from Jason in Texas. He says, Dear Pastor Gabe, I listened to your testimony on Theology Driven, because that was an interview that I did while we were at G3.

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It meant a lot to me. Our stories are a lot alike. You mentioned that you prayed to follow Jesus at a very young age.

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I likewise started following Jesus when I was five, and I was also baptized when

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I was a little kid. I've faced some criticism for that. Not a lot, but some. I was told that you shouldn't get baptized at such a young age because you can't possibly understand what it means yet.

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I don't remember you saying when you got baptized, were you baptized as a child or were you baptized as you got older?

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What are your thoughts about children being baptized? So first of all, I want to give a plug to Theology Driven.

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Brand new podcast, just started the same week as G3. And Kevin and Scott from the podcast,

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I got to talk to them. Am I getting the name right? Yeah. Yeah. Kevin and Scott.

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Right? And? James. James, I think was the other one, but he wasn't with us. Right. Because he had the flu.

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Right. He had to stay home. But as soon as I mentioned names, you kind of rolled your eyes up, so I thought I was saying something wrong.

22:51

No, no, no. I was thinking of when it started. It was. It was last. Yeah. Because we listened to the first episode.

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It was. I was just making sure that it was. Yeah. Anyway. We were in. We were in the car.

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Yes. We were in the Kansas City area when we were listening to it. And at one, Theology Driven is a podcast that's recorded as they're driving.

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Right. So there were some sirens in the background. Right. While they were driving. And so I'm in Kansas City traffic.

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I'm looking around going, uh -oh. What? Do I need to pull over? It was. It was on the podcast.

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So anyway, shout out to those guys. Got the chance to visit with them at G3. Congratulations on the new podcast and thank you for the interview.

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So they asked me about how I came to know the Lord and kind of my background in the church and some of those things.

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And what I shared in my testimony was that I, at the age of four, prayed to Jesus and said,

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I want to give my life to you. And even though I didn't understand my sin before God, but having been taught the

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Bible from the moment that I was basically breathing in the world, even before I could understand English, Dad is reading the

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Bible to me and singing me hymns. No kidding. Even when I was an infant. I believe that.

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And so when I prayed to follow Jesus, I confessed my sin and I said, forgive me of my sin, even though I really didn't understand my own nature yet.

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I just knew what the Bible said was true because that's the way I was raised. So then I talked about some of my ups and downs growing in the faith as I grew up.

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I don't guess I mentioned in there when I got baptized, but I wasn't baptized as a little kid. So even though I prayed to follow

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Jesus, I remember telling my parents that. And I explicitly remember telling my mom and dad,

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I just gave my life to Jesus. And they were just like, oh, well, that's good, son. Like they were not enthusiastic about it at all.

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They weren't impressed. No, probably not. Probably because he's four. He doesn't understand what it is that he's saying. I still remember doing it.

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And there has been nothing about my belief that's changed since then. I've only grown in maturity and done plenty of stupid things.

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But anyway, that's one of my earliest memories as a little kid is praying to Jesus and saying,

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I want to give my life to you. That's awesome. So I was not baptized as a little kid because my parents firmly believed that you should not get baptized until you understand what that means.

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And I don't think any of us kids were baptized real, real young. I think all of us were in our teens, at least.

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My siblings and myself. So I was somewhere around 16 or 17 years old when

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I got baptized. I don't remember exactly how old I was. The pastor of my church at that time, his name was

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Wayne Wilson, and he was the pastor that baptized me. And so I was old enough to know.

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I had already gone through the phase of wondering if I believed what I believed because it was true or did

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I believe it because my parents believed it. I had already gone through that period of testing, testing myself to see that I'm in the faith, as Paul talked about in 2

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Corinthians, and came to affirm, this is true. I am following the truth.

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And it has been shown to me by God through his word. And that takes time. It does.

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It takes time. Justin Peters has talked about this. In fact, he has a book about this. He does. But he has said that, you know, when you examine the language of the

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Christian faith in the New Testament, it's very adult language. So you have like Luke 9, 23, if anyone would be my disciple, he must deny himself, take up his cross and follow after me.

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Take up his cross daily and follow after me. Does that sound like something that a child can do?

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You know, does a child understand a concept of taking up an instrument of death and following after Christ?

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They can't even take up their clothes off the floor to give it to me for laundry. Precisely.

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I'm just saying. Does a child understand a concept of selflessness, of being buried in your sins with Christ and raised again to new life?

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And then you have the first words of Christ in Matthew 4. As he began his ministry, he said, repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

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Does a child understand their sin enough to know that they need to repent of their sin?

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Do they even know that they've done anything wrong? Or their selfish behavior is what seems to them the right thing to do?

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What I want for myself. That's all a child knows. So the language applied to Christianity is very adult language.

27:29

And I think even though I said at the age of four that I gave my life to Jesus, my parents were right to be skeptical about that and not letting me get baptized until I could articulate those things more clearly and understand, you know,

27:43

Romans 6, that we've been buried with Christ in our sins and risen with him to new life, which were things that I grew to understand as I matured.

27:52

And thus, growing in my maturity and sanctification affirmed that that confession that I made when

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I was four was something that was genuine and not just something that a little four -year -old did because he's heard it in church and he's seen his parents, you know, do this, that or the other.

28:08

So yeah, in answer to your question, Jason, I was baptized at a much later age. It was at least 10 years or more later before I was baptized.

28:18

So do you think somebody who's been baptized younger in age, do you think they need to be baptized again when they're older?

28:25

That would be up to them. There would have to be some personal examination there. Do you know what you were confessing when you were a child and was there fruit or an evidence of that salvation?

28:38

And then your parents were just enthused about, oh, well, let's get baptized now. And so they talked to the preacher and you're, you know, seven years old or something, and then you get baptized.

28:47

So now at this point in your life, as you're looking back on that, did you truly know? And that really was a genuine profession of faith.

28:54

Now, again, I don't think that's permission for Baptist churches to start doing that. I really don't think we should be baptizing kids that young.

29:03

Now, should somebody ask me, have you done that? Yeah, I have. I think the youngest I baptized was nine.

29:11

I don't think I've baptized a child younger than that. How old was Caleb? Do you remember that? Remember when

29:16

I baptized Caleb? I don't remember how old he was now. But he was, wasn't he

29:21

Annie's age? Isn't he close to Annie in age? A year older. A year older. So she, he was probably eight, probably eight about that time, wasn't it?

29:29

Something like that. So anyway, and I have different convictions now than I did at that particular time.

29:34

There was a period when I first became a Southern Baptist pastor, it was kind of like, hey, if somebody wants to be baptized, who am

29:40

I to deny them baptism? I'm going to talk to them and see that they understand what the Christian faith is, that they're a sinner that needs a savior.

29:49

If they don't understand that they're fallen in sin, Christ is righteous, and I need his righteousness in order to live.

29:58

If they don't understand Jesus died on a cross, he rose again bodily from the grave, he ascended into heaven, he's coming back again.

30:05

If they don't understand basics and fundamentals of the Christian faith just through a simple conversation, then

30:10

I'm not going to baptize them. But if somebody wants to get baptized and they can articulate Christianity to them,

30:17

I'm not going to say no. At least that's the way I was a long time ago.

30:23

Not that long ago. It was a terribly long ago. It wasn't all that long ago. And so even with little children, but not little, little children, anyway, my convictions are a little bit different regarding that now.

30:37

We have grown and matured. And Justin Peters makes a very valid point of, you know, it is adult language.

30:45

Dying to self. Yeah. I mean, that's not something that a child really understands or knows how to do.

30:51

So anyway, I hope that helps you. Excuse me. Hey, time to take another drink of my sweet tea.

30:58

None of that in the mic. Which Becky made for me. She made me sweet tea on her birthday.

31:04

Oh, stop. She came in and woke me up on the morning of her birthday, which was just yesterday,

31:12

January 25th. And she said, so I made you some sweet tea. And I'm like, you made me sweet tea?

31:17

I'm supposed to be getting up doing things for you because it's your birthday. But thank you for the sweet tea. I'm enjoying it.

31:22

You're welcome. Hey, to help just clear my throat right now. Our listeners are very grateful.

31:30

Hey, they may love sweet tea. Because you're not coughing in the mic. Yes, right. Okay. Now, the last question.

31:36

This one coming from James in Nevada. And this was regarding the episode that I did.

31:42

I believe it was Wednesday, teaching through 1 Timothy 3, finishing up verse 2 on pastors being respectable, hospitable, and able to teach.

31:53

He commented on Facebook and said, really, really good stuff. A pastor's demeanor is reflected on the whole congregation.

32:01

A faulty pastor can only produce a faulty church. Can we get a series for worship leaders also?

32:08

Oh, that's a good idea. Here's how this would apply to worship leaders. Take all the stuff that I said on the

32:15

Wednesday podcast, and then just substitute in worship leader for pastor.

32:24

And all that same stuff applies to those guys as well.

32:30

Because in going through this series, since we've taken so many weeks and talking about the qualifications for an overseer,

32:36

I'm sure to point out to you that this is something that everyone should aspire to, considering that an overseer is going to be a model of mature

32:45

Christian behavior. And so when we are being told that an overseer must be respectable, he must have good behavior, he must be hospitable, opens his home up to others, welcomes them in, goes into other people's homes and lets them serve him.

33:03

That's another aspect of being hospitable and able to teach, which that's the one skill that he must have, that not everybody else has to have.

33:12

But you must be able to do, like it mentions for the deacons in chapter three, verse nine, you must be able to hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.

33:22

So maybe you don't know how to teach it, but you still hold the sound doctrine. That's still important for everybody to do.

33:28

So as those three things apply to the overseer, so they should apply to every Christian. Everyone should be maturing in respectable behavior, hospitality, and an understanding and love for sound doctrine.

33:41

That's important for every believer, not just the man who is the overseer, but he is a model of good behavior for the rest of the church.

33:49

So at the time that he is being examined for that position as an overseer in the church, he should be modeling these characteristics presently, in the present, in his life.

34:02

You can observe these things that we're talking about as the qualifications for an overseer. And I would say that that needs to be the case for a worship leader as well.

34:10

Now I do not think that a worship leader needs to have an ability to teach. I don't think that he has to have that skill.

34:18

Just lead. A worship leader sings songs. Well, yeah, lead music, right? Yeah, I was just making a joke.

34:24

But not lead. No, I know, I get you. But not lead in the sense that he has to have a type

34:30

A personality as a leader. No, no, no, no. Just... You're like conducting leading.

34:36

Yes. Right. Sorry. Time for more tea. Oh, goodness.

34:43

And then I swallow wrong. Makes it even better. That wasn't a knock on your tea. It was a very good swallow.

34:49

It just went into my lungs instead of down my esophagus. You're not supposed to inhale.

34:56

You're supposed to drink. That's the problem our one -year -old has. Yes. Oh my goodness. So, anyway, yeah, the worship leader,

35:04

I have not decided yet if I'm going to edit that out or keep it in there. The worship leader does have to have an ability to lead, ha ha ha,

35:13

Becky's joke there. And... It was a dad joke, sorry. I'm a mom,

35:20

I can't pull those off. But that doesn't imply that he has to have a type

35:28

A personality, like he's got that leadership kind of personality. Right. Because I've known some worship leaders that really are very passive, very, what do you call that?

35:41

They're not outgoing, they're... Reserved? Yeah, it's what Sonya describes herself as.

35:48

Introvert? Introvert. There we go. I couldn't find the word. Introverted. So they're very introverted persons. Surprisingly.

35:54

They stand up in front of people and it seems like they have no stage fright whatsoever, but then you get to know them one -on -one and they're actually a lot more reserved kind of a personality.

36:03

Right. So they're not that leadership sort of person, but they have a skill in music. They have an ability to sing and lead a congregation in singing songs.

36:11

And so that's the skill that the worship leader has. He doesn't necessarily have to be a teacher. But doctrine must be sound in the music that we sing as much as it is in the word that's being taught from the pulpit.

36:25

Oh, yes. Most definitely. Right, right. So a worship leader must definitely have an understanding of sound doctrine that equips him to be able to know which songs are appropriate for leading the people of God into the presence of God prior to the pastor coming to the pulpit and then administrating the word of God.

36:50

Right. So that is something that a worship leader must be able to do. And also where to get the music from and not from.

36:57

Yes, right. Exactly. So he has enough discernment to know. Yes. Discernment is very important.

37:03

For this artist and this ministry that's providing this song, even though the lyrics are probably all right, maybe not something that I should be using in front of my congregation.

37:13

Because it would be promoting. It could be. Yeah. It could be promoting that particular ministry. People know where it's from.

37:19

It looks like we're aligned with them. You just have to use discernment concerning some of those kinds of things.

37:24

Right. But anyway, so that would be how that applies to a worship leader.

37:30

Definitely needs to be respectable, hospitable, and needs to be sound in his doctrine, but not necessarily able to teach just as a pastor must, unless that person is being appointed to the position of pastor.

37:48

So you're not just talking about a music leader in the church, but you're talking about a man who is an associate pastor, but his emphasis is in leading the music for the congregation.

37:59

Like how you started. And that was the way I began. Right. So in that case, he does have to have the ability to teach.

38:06

And I think that there should be some sort of demonstration of it. So it's not just that you've observed him leading music and he can sing songs and maybe even write songs, has skill and proficiency in the instruments that he plays.

38:24

It's not just that he's qualified in that area, but he also knows how to teach. Have you observed him leading a

38:30

Bible study or preaching a sermon from the pulpit? Because basically he must meet all of the other qualifications that the pastor meets, including the ability to teach.

38:40

Right. If he doesn't have an ability to teach, he's not qualified as an elder, an overseer, or even an associate pastor.

38:50

So associate pastors do have to have an ability to teach as much as the senior pastor does. Right. So anyway, again, just take all of the stuff that I said on Wednesday, apply it to worship leaders.

39:01

There you go. Worship pastor, which is a ridiculous title. Don't use that title. He's an associate pastor who leads the music for the church.

39:12

I can't remember how we worded my title. So when I originally applied for the job, they were calling me the worship pastor.

39:20

That's what they were calling me. And then when I got the job, I said, I don't want to use that because the senior pastor is as much a worship pastor as I am.

39:29

So this needs to be that I'm an associate pastor with an emphasis in music. And so that's the way that they designated my title.

39:36

And then there was another associate pastor on staff with an emphasis in youth. Right. And so he led the youth group. But anyway.

39:42

All right. All those rabbit trails. All those rabbit trails. Like I said, we rabbit trail all the time, which is why if you see us in public, you probably just need to interrupt because we're probably talking about something we didn't even start talking about when we began that conversation.

39:55

So I thank you to all the folks who came up to us at G3 and said hello. Thank you so much. And how much you appreciated the ministry.

40:01

It means a lot. It does. I will say that I was baffled about one thing in particular, though. How did anybody have any idea what

40:08

I look like? Your face on Twitter? Well, yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it's a little thumbnail.

40:14

Is that really enough that when a person is just walking through a crowd, you can look at them and go, your voice. But I wasn't talking.

40:20

You do talk a lot, though. Well, there is that. But I mean, walking. You really do sound that way.

40:26

Yeah. We got that a lot. I would start talking. They would go. Well, that's your actual voice.

40:31

Yes. That was just something you did on the podcast that I remember when we met Calvinist Batman for the first time at the

40:38

Gospel Coalition Conference in Orlando about three years ago or something. And he took a picture and posted it on his

40:45

Twitter. And then everybody else was commenting on it, going, ask him to talk. Does he really sound like that? Does he sound just like he does in the what videos?

40:52

And what was practically brand new right at that time, too. It wasn't wasn't that much going on. I think we had just been grabbed by Todd Freel just a few months earlier.

41:03

I think you're right. Yeah. So and thanks to Wretched for playing what videos. Oh, yes. Thank you.

41:08

And for grabbing me and putting me on camera, which I tell you, every time I've done that with Todd, I feel like an absolute goober.

41:15

I just I just don't do well in front of a camera. You notice where I went.

41:21

Oh, the step far away over here. I did. I did. Actually, she was right next to me.

41:28

But because Todd and I are so tall, the camera never went down. Quite possibly true, but not in this case.

41:36

So anyway, or plausible anyway, I don't even know how that's going to come out. But I just I feel like I can hold my own with Todd because he's so quick fire, you know.

41:46

So I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I was on camera with Todd Freel. But then I walk away and I'm like,

41:51

I feel dumb. I didn't feel like that came out well at all. I've never seen any of the clips that they videoed with me.

42:00

And I don't want to know that I do know. I'll be sure you don't find them.

42:07

Oh, come on. But hopefully we'll get to see at another conference soon.

42:12

A friend of mine in Louisville is still pecking on me to come to T4G in April.

42:18

I've got to make sure all the other stuff I got going on in April is going to line up. Thank you to Andrew Rappaport, inviting me to Shepard's Conference and willing to pay part of my way.

42:28

Oh, I think I'm ruling Shepard's Conference out this year, though. I'm not I'm not going to be able to make it to that one. I don't know.

42:34

Well, I can't. The friend that's inviting me to T4G, I kind of made some sort of obligation to him.

42:41

No, I mean, like, can't you squirm that in there? No, no, no. Well, the registrations closed online anyway.

42:48

I went online and looked at registration and you can't register anymore. So I would have somebody pulling strings for me,

42:54

I think, if I got in on that conference. I don't know if it's sold out or not. I just know I couldn't register online.

42:59

You just liked it so much last year. I loved it. Yeah, it was fabulous. ShepCon was wonderful. But I just don't think

43:06

I'm going to be able to make it. California is tough to get to for us, even in Kansas. Anyway, this is true. But Louisville is kind of en route to some things that we want to do coming up in April.

43:15

So I'm still kind of, yeah, finagling. Yeah. Moving some things around, seeing if I can't make

43:21

T4G work. Besides, of all of the major conferences I've heard, you walk away with more books from T4G than any other conference.

43:28

You get more free books at that conference than anywhere else. We are running out of space in our library. We have like this mini library.

43:34

I've got a whole empty, I've got this empty shelf right there. You haven't emptied the back from our, maybe this conference. Oh, they're not going to fill up that spot.

43:40

You always think you come out with more books than you really have because of how much they weigh. Maybe. That might be true.

43:46

Once you start putting them on the shelf, you're going, oh man, I need more books. Oh no. No. I need to start reading books, not collecting.

43:55

And that one right there, that's tax information, so I can file that and then I'm clearing that shelf right there.

44:02

Oh my goodness. We've got plenty of spaces for books. We have a ton of books.

44:08

All right. Thank you so much for joining us. Send your questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com. And we loved meeting our

44:14

Twitter friends. Thank you so much. Thank you for your support, kindness, generosity, every other wonderful, encouraging word that we can throw in there.

44:24

Yeah. You've been wonderful to us. Thank you so much. Let's pray. Yes. Lord, we thank you for being welcomed into the family of God.

44:33

So many different people from diverse backgrounds and ethnicities and nationalities and languages.

44:40

And yet we all come together as one because of the blood of Christ. We've been adopted into the family of God because of what

44:48

Christ Jesus has done for us on the cross. And so now we are in one spirit calling upon one father together in one baptism.

44:58

We are one church in Christ. And so I pray that you would grow this unity in us all the more as we cling to the gospel of Christ and proclaim his death, his resurrection from the grave for the forgiveness of sins and the gift of eternal life.

45:14

That it's through the declaration of this truth that your people would be one and grow all the more in unity and sanctification until we come to that great day of the return of our

45:27

Lord Jesus Christ in glory. And we will be forever with God in heaven.

45:33

We pray and ask for your continued blessings of your word, understanding your word, applying your word as we grow in this faith in Jesus name we pray, amen.

45:44

Amen. This is when we understand the text, submitting to the full authority of the word of Christ.

46:58

To enjoy our many blessings, please follow us on Twitter. I got to go turn the heater off because we're just hearing, it's like putting your ear in a seashell and hearing the ocean.

47:19

This is what Kansas sounds like in the wintertime. All right. You're welcome.

47:27

Oh, hey, there you heard me. Oh, hello. Apparently somebody's texting me.

47:34

Yeah. Turn those notices off. No, it's not notice. It's texting. I don't expect people to text me at nine 30 at night.

47:44

Oh, it's the practice schedule from coach my keel. All right.

47:59

That's really loud. Hey, I'm sending you a text message. Four of them, apparently.

48:08

Thanks. Sorry. Okay. I'm going to go get more tea while you're doing that. I'm done.

48:15

That's it. See? So how are you all out there?

48:33

He goes and he turns off the heater and then he leaves the door open.

48:44

It's chilly. It's actually warmer than what it has been during the

48:50

January thaw. What are you saying? I don't know.

48:55

You're just going to have to go back and listen. I'm not going to. That's too much audio.