I've Been Challenged - Challenge Accepted!

I have been publicly challenged. Well, I didn't think you had it in you.

I'm your huckleberry. Hello, ladies and gentlemen, my name is

Justin Peters. I hope that this finds you and your family doing well today. I want to thank you so much for joining me for this podcast.

So one of my YouTube critics watched an interview that I did recently with a man named

Levi Bimba, and Levi has his own YouTube channel entitled Duloss, a really good guy, like Levi a lot, and really enjoyed the interview.

So he interviewed me, and I think the interview was over an hour long, and we talked about many a sundry thing.

But at one of the points in the interview, I was talking about the difference between heresy and error, and I made the point that all heresy is error, but not all error rises to the level of theological heresy.

And I gave a couple of examples of that, and one of the examples of heresy is that I said that some word -faith preachers teach that Jesus was or is a created being.

And this word -faith critic of mine really thought he had me good on this one, and he jumped out and on his

YouTube channel. He downloaded the interview and played a section of it, which of course is perfectly fine, but he said,

I challenge Justin to show any evidence in any word -faith teachers ever taught that Jesus is a created being.

So I will now play for you the clip of the interview that I did with Levi, and I have already said this, the description down below in the link.

I can't remember if I said that or not, but anyway, it is. And so anyway, here's the clip.

Watch it, and watch his challenge to me, and we'll go from there.

When we talk about a false teacher, we're talking about someone who rises to the level of being a heretic.

So now if you want to play a word game, well, if someone teaches something that's false, doesn't that make them a false teacher?

No, it really doesn't, because R .C. Sproul taught Amillennialism, which

I disagree with, or he taught infant baptism, which I definitely disagree with. That doesn't make him a false teacher because he was right on who

God is. He was right on who Jesus is. He was right on who the Holy Spirit is. He was right on the gospel.

He was right on salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone. He did not teach that Jesus is a created being like many word -faith preachers do.

He did not teach modalism like many word -faith teachers do. So anyway, he didn't teach heresy.

So it's a leap that you really should not make to say that because someone teaches something that is false, then that automatically makes them a false teacher, as we understand the term.

Okay, no word -of -faith teachers that I know of have ever stated that Jesus is a created being, and I would challenge

Justin to provide any evidence to support that claim. Challenge accepted.

I honestly couldn't even believe he made this challenge. His name's Rod, and Rod, he's a member of the word -faith movement.

He's a card -carrying member of the word -faith movement, and he has often said of me that I don't understand the word.

Justin doesn't understand the word -faith movement. He's ignorant. He, you know, blah, blah, blah. And this is such an easy challenge to meet.

I was actually quite stunned that he made it, and he was quite confident that I couldn't back up my claims, and if he was that confident that I couldn't back up my claims of something that is so easily backed up and documented,

I would submit to you that it is he who does not understand the word -faith movement because there is a plethora of examples of this.

I'll give you just a few, and we will start with none other than Kenneth Copeland himself.

He is the grand poobah of the word -faith movement. He's Mr. Word -Faith.

He's like the grandfather, the potentate of the word -faith movement.

I could do a three -hour -long video just on Kenneth Copeland making statements like this, but I'll give you just a few of them, and I'll show you a few other word -faith teachers as well.

So at any rate, here's this. This is from Kenneth Copeland. He says this. Here's where we're going to depart from ordinary church.

Now, let's pause there just for a second. You know that any time a word -faith teacher says something like that, here's where we're going to depart from ordinary church, you know that whatever's coming after that ain't good.

Kenneth Copeland is one of the darkest individuals ever to disgrace the name of Jesus Christ, ever to sully the gospel.

Kenneth Copeland has uttered some of the most blood -curdling heresies and false prophecies that your twisted mind could ever even come up with.

There's no way the man is regenerate. No way. You wouldn't have to be indwelt by the

Holy Spirit for more than about five minutes to know that so much of what

Kenneth Copeland teaches is jaw -dropping heresy. But at any rate, Kenneth Copeland says this.

Now, you see, God is injecting his word into the earth to produce this

Jesus. Produce this Jesus. These faith -filled words that frame the image that's in him, he can't just walk onto the earth and say, let it be because he doesn't have the right.

Now, that gets into a whole other theological issue with word -faith view of God's sovereignty, which they have none, no right one.

But anyway, that's for another video. He had to sneak it in here around the God of this world, referring to Satan, that was blocking every way that he possibly could.

God was making promises to Jesus, and Jesus wasn't even there.

God was making promises to Jesus, and Jesus wasn't even there.

Well, where was he? Well, apparently, he did not yet exist.

And if he did not yet exist, then therefore, Jesus had to be a created being.

I don't see any way around that. But wait, that's not by any means the only or even strongest evidence of the claim that I've made.

Let's go to Kenneth Copeland again. This from his book, The Power of the

Tongue, pages 8 through 10. Jesus existed only as an image in the heart of God until such time as the prophets of the

Old Testament could positively confess Jesus into existence through their constant prophecies.

What do you do with that? Jesus existed only as an image, an image, an image in the heart of God.

So God the Father had this image on the inside of him, this ephemeral concept of maybe one day having a son that he would name

Jesus. But that was it, just kind of this idea in God's mind.

That is a flat -out denial of the co -eternality of God the

Son with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. And he said that not only did

God not create Jesus, apparently, the Old Testament prophets did it.

The Old Testament prophets positively confessed Jesus into existence.

That is stunning. That is undiluted heresy.

You cannot be indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God and teach such blasphemy and feel no conviction.

There be no conviction in you. I'm sorry. And some of you have heard me say this before. As a cessationist,

I cede no ground in my pneumatology, in my view of the person and work of the

Holy Spirit to these folks. None. And there are many examples, as I said, of Kenneth Copeland teaching stuff like this.

But let's not relegate it only to Kenneth Copeland. Watch this video clip from Perry Stone of his ministry called

Manifest. Now Perry Stone has biblically, anyway, if you care about biblical criteria, has morally disqualified himself for being in the ministry, but whatever.

So watch this. Disqualifying yourself for ministry in the charismatic mood is just really not even a thing.

You'd be hard -pressed to do that. Anytime they do something to morally disqualify themselves, they'll take a little hiatus, a few weeks, maybe a couple months, maybe a few months even.

But then they're right back in the saddle. I say it over and over and over and over, but that's the subject maybe of another video.

So without any further delay, here is Perry Stone. Now I want to tell you a very bizarre story that relates to something like this about heaven.

And when Moses, who had been dead 1 ,500 years, appeared to Jesus on the

Mount of Transfiguration, Moses began to tell Jesus about his departure. It was his spirit, which had been in paradise at that time under the earth, and it was brought forth.

This is going to get too complicated. I don't want to get into there because I'll lose you. So let me just stick to this thought.

So Moses is telling Jesus about his death. So what does Moses know about Jesus' death?

Because when Moses died, Jesus didn't even exist. Jesus didn't come into existence until 1 ,500 years later. When Moses died,

Jesus didn't even exist. Jesus didn't come into existence until 1 ,500 years later.

Well, if he didn't exist, he had to be created, right? Same thing with what we saw from Kenneth Copeland.

Now lest you think, okay, he didn't really mean that Jesus didn't exist. He just meant that Jesus wasn't on earth yet.

The incarnation had not yet taken place. That's what he meant. That is such a basic fundamental element of proper

Christology. I don't know how you make—that's not a

Joe Biden moment. That's not a flub. That's not getting tongue -tied. He made the statement twice.

When Moses said this, Jesus didn't exist. He didn't exist. He repeated it.

He didn't exist until 1 ,500 years later. Because when Moses died,

Jesus didn't even exist. Jesus didn't come into existence until 1 ,500 years later. Dear friends, if I were to ever be preaching, and for some reason

I had a misfire, and my brain went, I was going to say something like—

For example, you know, in the context of the book of Jeremiah, Jesus didn't yet exist.

If for some reason those words came out of my mouth, I would stop cold, stone, dead right there.

And I was like, whoa, wait, wait, wait. That's not right. I mean, if I ever made a statement,

I would feel the DNA in my cells ripping apart.

That is such a fundamental thing of Christology. To say that Jesus didn't exist, that is undiluted heresy.

And that's not something you accidentally say. That's like accidentally saying, well,

Jesus wasn't really God. You don't accidentally say something like that. You don't accidentally say, Jesus didn't exist.

Jesus says, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, before Abraham was, I am.

All things came into being through him, and apart from him, nothing came into being that has come into being.

For from him and through him and to him are all things. For in him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities.

All things have been created through him and for him. He upholds all things by the word of his power.

Jesus has always existed. Always. But it's not just Kenneth Copeland.

It's not just Perry Stone. Watch this from Jesse Duplantis on Sid Roth's program,

It's Supernatural. You've been religiously brainwashed instead of New Testament taught. See, you're going through the rigmarole of religiosity.

God ain't interested. You know, God never created Christianity. Man did that. God created Christ. God sowed

Christ so he could have Christians. God created Christ. God sowed

Christ so he could have a family. That gets into a whole other kind of, another branch of word -faith theology, the little

God's doctrine, which honestly it's so bad now with some of them. They've pretty much dropped the little from the little

God's doctrine. Kenneth Copeland on many occasions has taught that we are equal to God.

Want to offer me that challenge too, Rod? So anyway, and he says we are equal to God and God's desire was to have a family of equals.

He's made statements like that very recently. And Jesse Duplantis just did there.

And by the way, being equal to God, having God having a family of equals, if that reminds you a little bit of Mormonism, bingo, yeah, it's the same basic heresy, just packaged a little bit differently for different audiences, this being quote unquote evangelical, whatever that word means anymore.

But you heard it right out of the horse's mouth. God created Christ. God ain't interested.

You know, God never created Christianity. Man did that. God created Christ. And Sid Roth just sitting there blissful in his ignorance.

Sid Roth is truly one of the most inept people you will ever find theologically that actually has a

Christian television. He's probably, Sid Roth and Steve Schultz are two of the most gullible individuals

I've ever come across. And again, where is the working of the Holy Spirit in their lives? But at any rate, so many things here.

Jesse Duplantis says that God created Jesus. So there you go. There's just a few examples.

The Christology of the word faith movement is a mess. I mean, it's an absolute train wreck.

They are all over the place, so many of them. So there you go. Just a few of the many examples that I could provide.

So challenge offered, challenge accepted, challenge met.

And then he goes on later in the video to also said that some word faith teachers teach modalism.

He also offered me a challenge to prove that. And I'll do that maybe in another video because it's just for another video, another time.

There's a lot I can say about that as well. So all right, dear ones. I hope this has been helpful for you.

Not doing this just to meet a challenge and kind of get a one -upmanship on Rod on any level because honestly,

I don't lose any sleep over him. But I thought it was a good teaching point. And if you come across people who say, oh, the word faith movement, it's kind of a different denomination.

It's just they're maybe a little off on some minor things, but we're all still Christians here. No, this is heresy.

This is absolute heresy. And it is a movement that you should avoid like the plague.

And if you have friends, family members in it, you need to plead with them to come out of the word faith movement and its theology.

All right, thank you very much, dear ones. Thank you for watching. Until our next time together, may the grace of our

Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of His Holy Spirit be with you all.