September 26, 2018 Show with Gareth Schuth, Mike Endres, & Charlie Liebert on “My Christian Children’s Education: What Should I Do?”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 26th day of September 2018, and I have just returned Monday, day before yesterday, from a trip to Long Island, New York that was one that I was filled with anxiety over for quite a while.

This was a day which began on Friday of last week where I had to begin, I didn't have to, I voluntarily began to retrieve salvageable personal items from my childhood home, which was also subsequently the dream home of my late wife and mine when my parents passed away, and we purchased the home from my siblings and had it renovated, and the home, unfortunately, years ago went into foreclosure, and it was rescued from an auction, and thankfully I was able to very quickly sell the home in a short sale through a wonderful organization called a Realty Warehouse in Melville, Long Island, and before the new owner began his renovations, I was given the opportunity to retrieve personal belongings, and it was a really devastating experience personally, both mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, entering into the home which had been vacant for seven years, had been vandalized, had been invaded by wildlife like raccoons and so on.

The house was a wreck, so it was emotionally devastating to say the least, and I just want to thank God for Officer Kevin Degnan of the Suffolk County Police Department who was a captain, and now he's something higher than that.

I can't remember the exact title that he now has that he was promoted to, but he's with the Marine Division in Suffolk County, stationed in the Great River office of the Suffolk County Police Department.

He went in there with me. He's been a friend of mine for many years going back to the early 90s. He went in there with me for the first day to retrieve hand-carryable items, small items that had personal deep value for me just because of the personal nature of the items, and he just volunteered to go underneath the house in the crawlspace, crawl on his stomach to grab some of these things.

He even wanted me to sit in the car while he did this because he realized how emotionally devastating this was. And then the following day, Saturday from about 10 a .m. to 8 .30 p .m., I had a legion of angels come to help me, none of whom I knew except one person, none of whom I knew beforehand except one person.

That was Joe Matone, who was a contractor. I've known him for many years. He's a born-again believer in Christ. His nephew, Ethan, and one of his employees with his contracting firm, Joshua, they rented a box truck, did most of the furniture moving from the house into the box truck.

A wonderful couple that I had never met before, but if I had met before, I don't remember them, but I wanted to give thanks to this dear couple from Hope Reformed Baptist Church, Rob and Julie. They are with the Ministry to the Needy of Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Suffolk County, Long Island, in Medford, currently, and soon to be in, excuse the children screaming from across the hallway from my apartment.

They are the neighbor's children. But this couple, I am so glad that the Lord, through his providence, caused our paths to cross in this unique situation where they volunteered to help. Rob and Julie Spanarelli.

Also, a woman that I had never met from the North Shore Community Church of Oyster Bay, Long Island, New York, where my friend for many years, Pastor John Yenshko, is the pastor. He made an announcement of my need for help to clean out items from the house, and this wonderful woman, Karen Connolly, who is the manager of the Hope for Long Island Thrift Store, which is a thrift store of North Shore Community Church in Oyster Bay.

She came, and she did the work of five men. She was a whirlwind of energy and enthusiasm, collecting things for the thrift store, every dish, cup, plate, fork, knife, and spoon. She's just an amazing woman.

I don't have enough to say about her, and I am grateful to all of them and grateful to God for them. I'm still in somewhat of an emotional state right now, so if I remember anyone else who may have helped me that I'm not remembering at this moment, I will let you know.

But it was not only a heart-wrenching, devastating, and depressing time, but it was a wonderful time of blessing to meet these people and also to be reunited with my friend, Joe Matone, who I have known, and to see the love and compassion and enthusiasm that they poured into helping me, and the fact that they were thanking me throughout the entire episode instead of me thanking them.

I did thank them, but they were thanking me for the privilege of helping me do this, and it just helped so enormously for me to get through this experience. But I thank all of you who had prayed, and your prayers were definitely answered.

God sent to me a legion of angels, as I told you, to help me with this very devastating experience, but also a final chapter that I can put behind me now in my life. But now, today, we are having our first live broadcast since my return to Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and I'm excited to have two first-time guests and also a returning guest who I've interviewed a number of times, who's also been my co-host on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio a number of times.

First of all, let me introduce that friend of mine who you've no doubt heard on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio if you listen regularly, Charlie Liebert, who is an author, has experience in the education system, and is also the founder of sixdaycreation .com.

It's great to have you in the studio, Charlie Liebert. Thank you, Chris. It's great to be here. And for the very first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, we have Gareth Schuth, who is the headmaster of Grace Baptist Christian School in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

It's great to have you in the studio. Chris, thank you. And then last but not least, we have my friend Mike Endres, who is a third grade teacher and technology coordinator at the Grace Baptist Christian School in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Mike Endres, it's great to have you in the studio as well for the first time.

Thanks, Chris. It's nice to be here, and welcome to all those who are joining us today.

Salvation Testimonies and Callings to Christian Education

And today we are going to be talking about, obviously, Christian education, and more specifically, my children's education, what shall I do? A Christian Educator's Analysis and Advice, which is actually the latest book by my guest here today, Charlie Liebert.

But before we get into all of that, I'm going to announce our email address for all of you who are listening who have questions of your own regarding Christian education. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

I would like to begin with Gareth Schuth, since he is a first-time guest, and as we normally do on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, we have first-time guests give summaries of their salvation testimony. What kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and what kind of providential circumstances did the Lord rise up in your life that drew you to himself, to the.

Place where you were eventually saved by him? Great, well thank you Chris, and it's always good to give a testimony, and it's something that I feel like we maybe don't talk about enough as our own testimonies, but I thank you for the opportunity to share what the Lord has done.

I was privileged to have Christian parents. My mom took me to church as early as I can remember. My dad, as well, had an interest, of course, in my upbringing. We went to a Wesleyan church in upstate New York, in western Rochester.

It was there I was guided by some very godly men and women at Sunday school, in the church, in our youth group. I would say, though, that the experience that I had that's most memorable and notable was fairly early on when I was at a Christian camp.

Christian camps, as you know, if you are around Grace Baptist Christian school at all, are something that are important to a lot of our teachers, but this one, particularly for me, when I was probably six or seven, I was at a Christian camp during the summertime and really just felt like I understood who the Lord was for the first time and made a profession of faith then.

I was in high school, however, when I was a junior. It was then when I was finally baptized. I think that was just a matter of me taking hold of what I thought I knew and making it my own. And even yet, as the Lord is often doing in our hearts, just bringing us to greater realization of who He is.

And I found myself in college finding a little bit of a crisis point as I was in a college situation where there were many people who were actually questioning their faith or introduced to new doctrines that were foreign.

I even had the analysis that our professors may have been poking some holes in our Sunday school theology, but not really filling those holes. Now that may not have been accurate. I can't paint the entire institution like that, but that was certainly the case for many of us in the circles in which I ran.

So I found myself a bit of a crisis point realizing that what I had may not have been enough in my own viewing. It was then that some of my friends said, hey, there's this book that's been passed around.

It's called Today's Gospel. And hey, look at this. There's this place in Carlisle. We're pretty close to Carlisle. Let's go to this church. And it was then I was really introduced to the doctrines of grace, which really gave voice to the things I really thought I did believe.

But the authority of the scripture, sovereignty of God were probably never clearer in my picture, in my mind, until I came across Those at Grace. And I've been thankful to have been part of the church since then in about 2004, 2005.

And of course, the Lord is not done with me yet. So his testimony.

Should and will continue in my life. Amen. And when did the notion come about in your mind that.

You wanted to be involved in Christian education? That's a great question. I'm not sure what ever came into my mind. Chris Selman had to stick it there. Yeah, I grew up in a public school. I was very content.

I didn't know many people who went to Christian schools. Those that did, didn't seem to have much of a walk to their faith. And that, of course, is not indicative of all Christian schools by any means.

But the ones that I came across, that was the case. I actually was teaching music in a public school for a year before there was an opening at Grace in math and science. And I love math and science. And then the opening came and I said yes.

And I would say, Chris, even in those first year or two, I didn't know. I didn't get it. We'll put it that way. I didn't get Christian education the way I do today. I didn't value it. I didn't see it as important as it was, as it is.

So it took some learning curve with those around me pouring in into me and making that a priority, even as I taught in a Christian school. So I would say it's.

Been a process. Okay, Mike Endres, you are also a first-time guest. Let's hear something about your personal testimony about what kind of religion, if any, you were raised in and the providential circumstances the Lord raised up to draw you to himself.

Thank you, Chris. When you had.

Mentioned earlier that we would give testimonies today of our conversion, providence is the word that rose in my mind as well. So I grew up going with my family to an Episcopal church in New Jersey. And I'm not going to categorize Episcopal churches all the same, but at this church it seemed more like a country club.

And we were—certainly there were things there I appreciated there that were spiritual and I recognized, even though it wasn't mine, but things in the Common Book of Prayer, the Nicene Creed, the Apostles' Creed, things that I had memorized.

There were even opportunities that I was asked to read the scriptures, and I would want to do it correctly. And during the service, as a young kid, they had us read some of the lessons. And so here I was going over the word again and again so I'd say it right.

And yet I knew there was power in it, but I didn't understand it. But by the Lord's providence, a camp that I had intended to go with on a canoe trip—it was a scout camp—that camp folded, went out of business, and a friend of my father's told me about a camp in New York, Northern Frontier Camp in North River, New York.

And it was a Christian camp, and they were doing a canoe trip. So I got information about it, and among the packing list of all these things I was to bring on this serious wilderness trip was a Bible.

And the only Bible I had was gold-leafed, and it sat.

On a shelf. Dusty since my confirmation. Probably about the size of a coffee table. Yeah, it was.

Big. I'm not sure if it was that one or another one that I wrapped multiple times in Ziploc bags or whatever, but took it on a canoe trip. And here I was exposed to young men who love the Lord Jesus Christ, who loved his word and wanted me to know more about him.

This is not something I ran into before, except for perhaps one Sunday school teacher that I had had back in the Episcopal particular Episcopal church. But anyhow, go ahead. There's a tongue teaser. Yes.

Tongue-tying particular Episcopal. All right, well I thank you for that. Thanks for saving me on that. But anyhow, I was blessed by these young men and went home and read my Bible that year for a little bit.

That faded, and it happened a couple other years as I went on trips with this camp and became interested in spiritual things. And then after a few weeks on my own, it faded until one summer when I was on the staff as a junior counselor.

I really felt the Lord was convicting me of sin and drawing me to himself. And I remember in the Episcopal church I was given a special award for helping as an acolyte, and that was a job I took seriously, though I didn't really understand it too well.

But I remember receiving this award one night or one Sunday morning and feeling the guilt of my sin. It was supposed to be an encouragement to my faith. Well, it was in a way, but it brought me great guilt knowing that I had not truly sought the Lord yet, and that I was not living for him, and that I had not repented of sin.

And so in many ways that was a hard but a great blessing and brought me face-to-face with my need.

Of a Savior. So many years ago. And tell us about your journey into the field of education.

Um, so I had worked through camps, through this camp as a junior counselor, as a collegian, and working with young people all the time is something that I had done and enjoyed. I had considered education while I was in college and had a little difficulty with my grades, keeping it up at the high level required for, to stay in the education program.

So I switched gears and worked in mental health and went into the mental health, a major that geared me into that. And then after working in mental health for a few years, I, my wife has already, she started at the Christian school that Grace Baptist is a second grade teacher.

And I decided that I wanted to go back to school for a master's in education and elementary ed. And I did that at Shippensburg University. And when I finished, I, my daughter was born about that time.

And so my wife was leaving the school and I took her position directly. And she went, it went from Mrs. Endress to Mr. Endress, and I became the second grade teacher. This is now my 20th year serving at the Christian school.

And I've done it in a variety of positions, both elementary and middle, which is not uncommon, honestly, for a Christian school teacher to have many different hats and many different roles, soccer coach, boys ensemble.

Director. And I've enjoyed it immensely. Praise God. And one note of interest to our audience is that Mike Endress happens to be the son-in-law of Charlie Liebert, the other guest of the three that I have mentioned.

And we've already had Charlie give his personal testimony on the program before. So if you want to hear that, you could go back to some of the earlier interviews with Charlie Liebert. You can type in L-I-E, B as in boy, E-R-T in the search engine where it says pest shows podcast, and you'll find all of the interviews we've done with Charlie Liebert.

But just to give you a summary, it starts off with his actually meeting the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus. Not quite. He goes way back. Not quite. But Charlie, you have written a book with a provocative title.

The book? Yeah, let me. The book is My Christian Children's Education, What Should I Do? A Christian Educator's Analysis and Advice. What was the main catalyst toward you writing this book? Obviously, you believe there is something very seriously wrong with mainstream public education or even some would call it government education.

And there is not even universally good news in private Christian schools either. No, not necessarily.

But if you could. Let me go back and give you a little background. After I became a Christian at age 35, I wrestled with a lot of the questions about Christianity. It took me probably about 10 years to kind of get myself straight in terms of apologetics and understanding what the faith was about.

After that time in Greensboro, North Carolina, where we were living, a local group decided to start a classical Christian school called Caldwell Academy. And I was put on the board in the early days of the school.

Later on, I would teach both middle school and grammar school at that school. And that convinced me as I began to do research on that. At the same time in the 1980s, when Reagan was president, he had a study called A Nation at Risk.

And that particular study exposed some of the problems with Christian education. So I decided to put together a book that has basically three parts. The first one is Educational Classical Foundations.

The foundation of Christian education in general in the U .S. public system is humanism. The Christian schools, of course, have the classical foundation of the Bible. How well that's used is another issue, but that's the foundation.

And I talk the first part of the book about those foundations, what they are, how they explain and how they influence education. Then the next is the challenges we face, things like textbooks, humanism, language, evolution, a little bit, just a little bit about evolution that's covered in some of my other books.

And then the freedom of expression related to education, because there's a good deal of censorship going on in education. And the third part is the one that really is kind of my heart. And that is the parents' biblical responsibility, the biblical mandate, and then issues about how do parents implement that?

Some parents will have to, or won't have to, they generally are bound to put their children in public schools. Well, if they're doing that as Christians, they're going to have to counter what's being poured into their children's heads.

And that's going to be a big job. So I recommend Christian education, but there are some that will do that. So I basically put in that last session here, how do you do it? And I give the options, public school, private school, private Christian school, homeschool, all the different options and explain which I think.

And of course, my heart is in classical Christian education. So that would be the background. So that book has just been published recently. It does have on the front cover three pictures, one about 1950s, when I went to school, called Education, Read and Write and Rithpotick.

Okay, we were basically talking about the basics. By 1980s, we have A Nation at Risk, a Reagan study. And then finally, my last picture, which is the top one, which shows the school burned down, says public schools,.

Humanist foundation is failure by design. Well, I'd like each of you one by one to tell me what your greatest concern is to start off with the public or government school system. And we'll start with you, Charlie, and then we'll move on to Gareth Schuth.

And then we'll hear.

From your son-in-law, Mike Endres. All subjects have a foundation from which they spring. And you teach history, you teach geography, you teach mathematics, you teach language, all of those have a foundation in which they spring.

And the foundation, the basic difference between the foundations, and I'm getting very basic here, in humanism, the foundation is relativism. The foundation in Christianity is a biblical foundation that is a set of absolutes.

And that's the difference. For example, when you teach education in a Christian school, you typically would teach it started with phonics, the sounds of the letters, and then develop into.

A concept of what language is. Yes, I definitely remember. I was educated in Catholic school,.

And I definitely remember the phonics. Well, under the humanist system, that doesn't work that way. They use something called look-say, which is basically using the language starting with whole words.

But what that's done is that's taken the absolute, which is the letters, out of the teaching and put in concepts. Well, that's backwards. Why do you think that was done? Because they can't countenance absolutes.

They want to be able to teach in a way that the language is understood as being a relativist rather than absolute. I know it's a different approach, but that's pretty simple. The same thing is true in math.

The new math, we don't teach numbers. We start with numerical concepts. That's backwards. And students don't get it.

Are there, to your knowledge, are there any government schools teaching phonics and.

Traditional math? There are some. They're typically schools that are called charter schools. And they're basically saying, we're chartered by the state, but we teach with the methods of the 50s rather than the methods of the 2000s.

That'll be the difference. And Garish Shuth, if you could.

Tell us your greatest concerns about the public school system. Yeah, I think the greatest concern would be that, not that the public school doesn't have some things to offer and doesn't prepare kids for a future outside of the public school, but it inherently doesn't teach young Christians Christian thinking.

I understand what Charlie's saying and I agree with that. And just to add to that, you have the element of time. You have a child who is supposed to be educated under the ultimately of their parents. And I think even good parents who send their child to public school understand that responsibility.

But when you are having your child under the influence of others during that time, which undoubtedly has to happen unless you're homeschooling your child, the element of time is a large one. It's a great multiplier when it comes to influence and education.

And so when you are sending your children outside the home for that duration throughout the day, to not be imposing or influencing or injecting your child with Christian ways of thinking and Christian ways of behaving and studying the Catechism and the Bible, you're going to have a problem.

So it's not so much a problem I have with the public school per se as a public would use it, but as Christians going to a public school, you're going to have an issue at some point, whether it is clearly seen or not.

And Mike Endres.

Well, one key thing that I see is that God is truth. And we start with what is truth? The children in public schools are not told that there is truth, or that you can find your own truth, as if there are many different truths.

You have your truth, and I have my truth. They might be different, but both are truth. Well, that's nonsense. And it is very confusing. I think of the young children when I think about this question, primarily.

I mean, they are taught as if God does not exist. So your parents tell you that God exists, but we're going to spend an entire day as if he doesn't, in whatever we talk about, as if he's a fairy tale or something like that.

And that is a huge concern of mine. One of the things I appreciate most about teaching in our Christian school, from a biblical worldview, is that we are showing the children that God is real, and he is in everything.

We start with God is real, that God is sovereign, that God is true, and you can trust in him, and the scriptures are true. We start there, and the subjects that we teach flow from that understanding. And so my greatest concern is that these children growing up in the public.

School are being taught that there is no God. Well, we have a private or an anonymous question, which we will go to after we return from our first station break. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back after.

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