Two-age Sojourner: Pastoring, Parenting and the Power of the Gospel—with Mike and Luke Abendroth (Part 1)

14 views

Two-age Sojourner is hosted by Michael Beck, the pastor of Gracenet Community Church, Wellington, New Zealand (www.gracenet.co.nz).   Each week (well, most weeks), Mike is joined on his pilgrimage by three co-hosts.   Nick Clevely is the pastor of Covenant Grace Baptist Church in Timaru, New Zealand (www.covenantgracebaptist.church).   André Beck (yes, he’s Mike’s brother) is pastor of Bethesda Baptist Church in Felixstowe, UK (www.bethesdafelixstowe.com).   Music on this podcast was written by Jeremy Casella and performed by Indelible Grace.   You can listen to more from Indelible Grace and Jeremy Casella by searching on Spotify or Apple Music."   For more info, check out www.twoagesojourner.com.

0 comments

Two-age Sojourner: Pastoring, Parenting and the Power of the Gospel—with Mike and Luke Abendroth (Part 2)

00:12
Welcome to No Compromise Radio Ministry. Mike Abendroth here. Today it is a special episode.
00:20
I was asked by Michael Beck and the Men at Two Age Sojourner podcast to be on the show with my son
00:28
Luke, and I asked Michael Beck if I could have permission to run it on NOCO. Some of you have probably already heard it on Two Age Sojourner, but some of you probably have not.
00:37
We talked about parenting and the gospel, pastoral ministry, et cetera.
00:43
And so today on No Compromise Radio, we have Michael Beck, Andre and Nick, Mike and Luke to talk about the
00:53
Lord's work in the lives of parents and churches, and we had a few laughs as well.
01:01
So today, part one, Two Age Sojourner, No Compromise Radio Ministry.
01:08
Michael, I got this very cool, you're sitting there smoking a very cool Art Deco ashtray.
01:13
Perfect for clove cigarettes. It's perfect for cloves. I don't know if Luke's got a good enough signal.
01:19
He keeps freezing. What's up with that? What's up with that Westminster signal, man?
01:25
Go to Clark's office. Just ask if you could use his office. All right, well, we are here together with five blocks on your screen, if you're watching, which is very unusual, very unusual behavior on the podcast these days.
01:57
But man, we've been looking forward to this one. We got Mike and Luke Abendroth, and we did mention that last week.
02:06
I think, I didn't know if I said that would be the next one, but here it is. We managed to organize it.
02:12
Amazing, amazing, miracle feats of organization, because to get five people in the same room and to do this sort of thing is quite amazing.
02:22
Now, Luke is my bottom of the screen, and he's at Westminster Seminary campus right now.
02:32
I'll edit this out if you want, but you've just walked out on Horton's class. What's happened?
02:40
Yeah, I'm playing hooky. I'm playing hooky right now from Horton's class. This is very, very cool.
02:47
You've elevated the coolness of this podcast to a whole new level. Can't you just go into Horton's class and do it from there?
02:54
Because that way, we could have Horton in the background. Sure. I'm sure he'd be fine with it.
03:00
He'd be fine. I just came here from, I just had tacos with Brian Estelle.
03:07
I'm reading his book. I just did. There it is.
03:13
There it is. That's the book. It's working right now. It's working. I'm so enjoying this book. Yeah. Well, next time you have tacos with Estelle, just tell him we're really digging his book.
03:20
So whatever. Yeah, man. You know. Okay. Sounds good. Stupid tacos. He didn't like tacos.
03:26
Andrey did make the comment that, you know, you're making a terrible mistake by being here. You should rather be in Horton's class. That would be an upgrade.
03:35
But anyways, cool. So we got Luke with us. We thank you for your service. Yes, exactly. We got
03:40
Mike Evendrath. Let me actually do the formal introductions. Hang on. Wait a minute. I've got a little... So Mike needs no introduction,
03:47
I don't think. Everyone knows Mike. But pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church.
03:54
Is that right? BBC? Yeah. Bethlehem Bible Church. No, that's
03:59
Bethlehem Baptist is Piper's one. We don't want to confuse you. That's correct. Yeah. Sorry. That's like... Ooh. That's a sense of area right there.
04:06
And I just put Baptist on everything I love. So, you know, if I say Baptist in connection to your name, and you know, that's a good thing.
04:15
And we know Mike has written like, oh man, too many books to actually list. A lot of them.
04:22
How did you write so many books, Mike? There are a lot of them. I mean, the recent one, Discovering Romans, S.
04:28
Lewis Johnson. Let me just quickly give it a go. Let me give it a go. We got white lies. We got things that go bump in the church.
04:34
We've got Jesus Christ, the Prince of Preachers. We've got the Sovereignty and Supremacy of King Jesus.
04:41
What else? What am I leaving out? We got the one, the Sexual Fidelity, the one I got signed by Mike Eberdroth himself.
04:47
And I believe that came out of your discussions with Luke. And, you know, so we can talk a little bit about that if you want. We got
04:53
Gospel Assurance, a great little book. We got the Gospel Assurance 31 -Day Devotional. We got...
04:58
Anyways, you get the point. We got a lot of... And then where people know you as well from No Compromise Radio.
05:07
Well, based on all those books and everything... Always compromised. Sorry, go for it. Always compromised, never biblical, never in that order.
05:15
How does it go? Well, when I used to be more of a discernment type of minister,
05:21
I would say always biblical, always provocative, and then have a pregnant pause, always in that order.
05:27
Yes. But we've changed it around now to more of a Christ -centered focus. So I just tell people the focus of the show is on Jesus Christ, who never compromised.
05:37
Can you imagine, there's been a human who's lived on this earth, and the Father could say, this is my beloved Son in whom
05:42
I'm well pleased. So I try to make it more focused on the Lord Jesus now versus scudding everybody.
05:48
Amen. That sounds good. Cool. That was wholesome, yeah. Yeah, totally. And then
05:54
Luke, of course, we've just mentioned, is Mike's son. And he is at Westminster Seminary, first year student there, and walking around campus right now.
06:05
That's pretty cool. He's learning about, what are you learning about? Pre -Potonic syllables, open
06:10
Pre -Potonic syllables in Hebrew, and all of that sort of stuff. Yeah, Pro -Potonic reduction.
06:16
Oh, nice, nice. That's even better. Well, as long as you get past trying to figure out whether it's a closed syllable or a silent shavah or a vocal shavah, once you get past that, to be honest, it's all easy.
06:28
Because if you get past the circular logic of trying to figure out if it's silent or vocal, or if it's open or closed, then it's all good.
06:35
Then you can move on. You just got to headbutt that thing hard and then move on. Yeah, exactly.
06:41
Luke surfs, he's married, and I believe your wife is pregnant. She is, yeah.
06:48
Congrats, man. That is so awesome. So congratulations to, what is your wife's name again?
06:54
Hannah. Hannah. Hannah and Luke. And Hannah's a better surfer than Luke.
07:00
Hannah's a better surfer than Luke. I was just about to say that. That's cool. So, you know, usually there's a competition, but in this case,
07:06
I think she just clearly wins, right? There's no competition. Good. Neither are
07:11
Luke and I have no idea what we're doing when it comes to cigars. I know that much about us. We've spent time making idiots of ourselves in a cigar lounge.
07:21
I got the coffee one. I don't know if you did much better. Do you even get a cigar? I did. Yeah, I think
07:26
I did better than you. You may have done better. Me and your mix somehow. I thought I did well. Yeah.
07:32
Okay. Well, I thought you were my partner in dumbness. So I guess I'll just go alone.
07:39
Luke was just being kind. I just, I capitulated in the moment. I was just like, I was telling Luke, like I was really thirsty.
07:45
I didn't actually want a cigar. I just wanted a coffee or something. And, you know, I sort of, you know, that moment where you're just confused and tired, and then there was this really nice looking cigar.
07:57
It looked like this little candy wafer thing that went around it. It just looked like something you wanted to eat, like a dessert or something.
08:06
And it said coffee somewhere on the cigar. So I was like, I'll get that one. And it was a bad mistake.
08:13
But anyways, we'll leave that for another time. So hanging out with Luke reminded me, it was so cool seeing father in some relationship.
08:20
We'll talk about that's kind of where I want to go. But it reminded me so much of hanging out with Nick the first time.
08:28
First time I was hanging out with Luke was like the first time I was hanging around with Nick. It was like way too much laughter, a little bit out of control.
08:35
Like it can get you into trouble if you're not careful. Like, you know, stupid videos about, you know, people putting hot dogs in people's pockets and that sort of thing.
08:44
Just like out of control. You got to reign this in. You know, Nick's got me into trouble a few times.
08:50
So I was having some flashback experiences then. But, you know, lots of laughter.
08:56
And, you know, Mike, seeing Mike and his brother reminded me of me and Andre.
09:04
So now I thought I'd repay the favor. Mike, you get to hang around with the Beck brothers. I've done my time with the
09:09
Abendroth brothers. So let's do this thing. I wanted to get us all together to just kind of, okay, let me tell the story and go from there.
09:21
Firstly, I'm seeing Mike and Luke kind of hang out together, right? Pastor and pastor's kid now going into ministry, kind of living the dream, really, in many ways.
09:29
I mean, this is kind of what every pastor wants secretly, a little bit, maybe. You know, we're trying to be like cool about everything.
09:37
But if we get a kid that turns out like Luke, we'd all be like super stoked. And so just seeing them hang out was so awesome.
09:46
It's just like, wow, can this even happen? We want this. We all want this. How do we do this? And then eventually, you know,
09:52
I think we had just said goodbye to you at the airport, Luke. And Mike and I were sitting down. We're just kind of talking.
09:59
And I think I just asked you straight. I was like, okay, how do you do that? You know, how do you, tell me about parenting?
10:07
Teach me, and, you know, and it evolved into this conversation about pastoral ministry that actually
10:17
I thought was just like, wow, we just need to do a few, we just need to talk about this. People just, I think people who are pastors will really appreciate this.
10:24
And to get Luke in on this from your perspective as well, it's just being the kind of the pastor's kid who's now in ministry.
10:31
Like what happened from, you know, if your dad's talking it up, you can just bring us back down to earth, you know, from your perspective.
10:38
But it was great hearing some of your perspective as well, you know, throughout the, we met at the Pactum conference, by the way, if people haven't put that together.
10:47
But if, you know, just from your perspective was great just hearing what your dad was doing and how he always made time for you. So I just thought, well, let's all get in on the conversation and chat this through a little bit.
10:56
We probably won't get anywhere and it probably deserves about 300 episodes. But, you know,
11:03
Mike, where did we leave off? Can you remember? I think we started off with some really bad, bad coffee, probably the worst coffee
11:11
I've ever had in my life. Yeah, that airport coffee. Steve Meister said, don't get the coffee, but I really wanted some.
11:17
So we got the coffee. But it worked. It worked. It got us talking. I think you're right,
11:22
Michael. We were just talking about having children, ministry, how do you raise children?
11:27
And of course, I give all the glory to the Lord. I'm not just saying that, but I think of my children and I then think of God's grace and my wife's hands -on approach to raising the kids.
11:39
Big picture, I never wanted to raise children that were pastor's kids, you know, the typical PKs, and they were ignored by their dad because he's out visiting every other child.
11:50
Yeah. And so I think, Michael, we were talking about... Visitation was one thing. You made this gem statement.
11:56
Like I thought, let's talk about what did you say? You said something like, you know, if your church ever pressures you to do visitation, tell them, you know,
12:06
I am, I'm visiting my kids, you know. I love that. People need to know about this.
12:14
How many kids have you got, Mike? Well, I have four children. Luke is 27. Haley is 30, married with a son.
12:23
Maddie is 24 and Gracie is 22. So I have four children. Reminds me of that joke about the pastor.
12:29
He's on the boat and the boat's called visitation. Where's the pastor? He's on visitation. But I got to the church.
12:37
I was 36 years old, senior pastor, and people wanted me to visit. And I said, well,
12:43
I have a visitation ministry and that's Haley, Maddie, Luke, and Gracie. And five nights a week,
12:50
I would try to be home with the children for dinner, tucking them in, maybe six nights a week. And I would always stay up later and study.
12:56
But I just thought, you know, the church is going to kick me out one day. I'll quit. Something will happen, but I'll always have my children.
13:03
And I don't want them to resent pastoral ministry, the church, or anything else. So I just said no to a lot of people, but yes to my children.
13:12
And then I tried to say to other men, you're not a pastor, but you should do exactly what I'm doing here.
13:17
I'm trying to model for you. Say no to other things so you can spend time with your children. So I think that's how our conversation started.
13:25
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, it's sort of, it's amazing to me how the two are related, because we were talking about kids.
13:32
We were just, it just branched out into pastoral ministry of all sorts, all sorts of components of pastoral ministry.
13:37
And while you were talking, I remember thinking to myself, it is amazing how there is almost this lack,
13:44
I mean, we all give lip service to it. We all say, you know, yes, pastors, you got to put your family first and, you know, just kind of take care of your family and so forth.
13:53
But that's all it gets, you know, as if like, okay, there we go. We've checked the box. Now let's get on to, you know, preaching and all these other things.
14:00
And, you know, in light of the biblical prerequisites, I mean, you know, you've got to, this is a big part of it.
14:06
I mean, you know, if you're thinking about the prerequisites for eldership and whatnot, I mean, you've got this there together with, you know, preaching and teaching and so forth.
14:17
And, and so it's like, it feels like there needs to be more discussion as to how to do this. And, and, you know, little simple things,
14:23
I think, because one of the things we did talk about, I remember was how bad, you know, Reformed Pastor by Richard Baxter is.
14:31
And, and how, and yet, you know, we laugh about it, but it's, but it's kind of, it's kind of like, I mean,
14:36
I remember when I was just getting into Reformed theology, that was the standard text. That's how you, you've got to be a
14:42
Reformed Pastor. It still is. Every pastor must catechize 3 ,000 people, his whole village. It's his job to catechize the whole village.
14:48
I mean, isn't that normal? Personally. Yeah, personally. Personally. And you know what, you know, your kids are going to hate you if you do that.
14:56
That's just the reality, you know, because you will not see them. So, that's kind of the situation we're in.
15:01
And I think that most of us, thankfully now, are kind of realizing, you know, okay, well, Richard Baxter put it on a little too strong, or he's coming at it from a weird theological angle, but I think that, you know, it's still, there's this kind of subtext, this pressure that still remains, especially.
15:18
That's right. You pick up any pastoral theology book, and it's basically
15:24
Reformed Baxter -ish in some way. It's like Reformed Baxter -lite, or Reformed Baxter, Neo -Reformed
15:30
Baxter, but a Reformed Pastor, but it's basically Baxter rehashed and reapplied in one way, shape, or form.
15:37
I mean, I've got about 20 books on pastoral ministry on my shelf at church, and all of them have followed that model.
15:44
If they haven't done that, they've just followed the completely secular management principle stuff. But, you know, it seems to go one of the two ways.
15:52
So, there's a big need, I think, to correct pastoral practice. Yeah, exactly.
15:59
One of the things, so, visiting is a thing, okay. So, and I think, you know, that's why that really hooked me.
16:08
I suppose it goes together, in my mind, with this whole, you know, you think about pastoral ministry today, and, you know, one of the things
16:16
I think that happens is that people don't spend enough time studying and doing theology and, you know, or at least the church won't give them enough freedom to think in those directions or to spend enough time on their sermons because they've got all these things to do.
16:30
So, I've been usually, you know, in my mind, I sort of put this together or put this against each other or put these things against each other in that, you know, you have, don't spend too much time with all the stuff that deacons could be helping you with and do the thing that you're meant to be doing and don't compromise on this major ministry element.
16:49
We realize that preaching is not the only thing, but, you know, it's a big component. But I think what's interesting about this is that it's not so much visiting, you know, it's just that you're sort of putting preaching against, you know, the stuff that deacons could be doing, but you've got to almost, you've got to put the family there as well, and you've got to put that against the stuff deacons could be doing, and that's another big thing.
17:14
So, as you've been working through, I mean, you've obviously, Mike, you've written a lot of books.
17:20
You haven't like not gone in that direction, right? You've preached. You've had other things on the go, like the
17:27
No Compromise Radio. You've written a lot of books. You've spoken at conferences. So, I think a lot of people think, okay, well, you know, one of those things have got to go, you know, if you're going to be able to do the family thing well.
17:39
I mean, how have you managed to put all that together and do so in a way that hasn't, are there any regrets in that regard?
17:46
Are there any things you'd like to have changed? Or, I don't know, let's talk a little around that subject. And Luke can chime in too and either affirm or deny what
17:55
I say from this perspective. Sometimes people will ask me, especially the younger men in ministry, what about writing books?
18:03
What about speaking? What about doing this, that, or the other? I think, Michael, it was probably 15 years here at the local church.
18:12
I've been at the same church for 27 years now. 15 years, I probably did nothing.
18:17
No books written. I think I got my doctorate of ministry at Southern. That's the only kind of extracurricular thing
18:23
I did. I don't think I did any speaking. I think one time somebody asked me to do a promise keepers thing or something like that, but I never got asked to do missions.
18:32
I just was here in this little town of 7 ,000 people. So, I think you have to be careful. You really can't have it all.
18:39
And so, if you're going to raise a bunch of, you know, little children and you're going to be a writer and speaker and everything else, it is going to be very, very difficult.
18:46
So, part of it is waiting later in life to do those things. And even though I think many things
18:52
I did well, I still have regrets. And I remember when Luke moved away,
18:57
I thought, I feel like I want to throw up, like things that I didn't teach him or things that we didn't do.
19:03
And we spent so much time together. And I don't think Luke felt lonely for his dad's attention, but still, you know, we all talk about it.
19:12
Well, time goes by fast. And then it does. And so, I think probably what I would recommend to everybody is you just have to learn how to say no for something that's greater.
19:23
And your children are greater than ministry. I don't mean they're greater than the Lord, but in terms of just, you know, preaching and this, that, and the other, the children,
19:30
I mean, they have to be at the top of the list. And the wonderful thing is now, if you see
19:36
Luke and you like him and the fruit in his life, then you somehow give me more clout and you think
19:41
I did something because I was the Lord's vessel or whatever. And so, I would just tell younger pastors, the desire to do radio and books and everything else, just try to say no to some of that, say no to a lot of meetings, say no to a lot of having people over to your home.
19:58
I mean, here's something simple. When you invite another couple to your home that has children, you won't be able to spend time with your children that night because the kids will be playing and you're talking to other adults.
20:10
And so, we used to say, if you're going to invite another couple over that has children, everybody needs to be around the same dinner table.
20:16
You will all talk for another hour afterwards, and then you can go play and you can do this out of there because then I don't get to see my kids.
20:23
And so, just some practical things like that, where you just have to learn how to say no.
20:29
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's good. So, Mike, I just want to maybe just jump in here with a question. Just say, hi,
20:36
Luke. So, one of the things that I've encountered being a pastor, having two sons, and you're up there in the pulpit, you're preaching, you're catechizing your children at home, you're having your family devotions, you're teaching them the answers to all sorts of key theological issues.
20:55
And so, the one week you're preaching on baptism, and then you discuss the sermon around the dinner table as you do with your family.
21:04
And then mom says to the kids, so boys, what did dad preach on? And they'll say baptism. And that's right. And so, when are you going to get baptized?
21:10
And now suddenly, you're in this position as pastor and dad, where you know they know the answers.
21:17
You know that they also want to please you as the dad. And how do you engage with those critical moments when it comes to questions like baptism, you know, and trying to negotiate that without pressuring them, you know, being more dad than pastor at that point?
21:30
How did you find those moments? Well, maybe I did it wrongly. I don't know. My general theology is you shouldn't be able to be baptized until you go through puberty and have a driver's license.
21:47
Because then we'll find out if you're really a Christian or not. And so, in our church, if you're 5, 10, 12 years old, you're not allowed to get baptized.
21:57
And so, we would always tell the kids you have to pass the communion plate, because that's for believers, right?
22:04
You believe, and then you are baptized, and then you can partake with communion. So, they always had to pass that.
22:10
And then we would talk about things that were very relevant from the sermon content of sovereignty, but I don't think
22:18
I ever pushed the children on baptism. Luke, did I ever tell you, you better get baptized, or when will you, or did
22:23
I leave that more to you? It's like, oh, you left it to me. I remember this one time.
22:33
Governor, did I push you to get baptized, Luke? No, no, I never felt pressure.
22:38
And I think even mom, who really, she should be probably on the podcast instead of me.
22:45
My mom is the driving factor behind a lot of this stuff. Right, totally, totally. Yeah, but no, but I remember,
22:51
I think mom even kind of discouraged it at times of seeing that maybe we were wanting to be baptized.
22:57
Because I think, dad, we had some kids who were baptized growing up in the church. And so, then it's like, well, should
23:02
I get baptized because this other 13 -year -old's getting baptized? And so, I think the general philosophy was always, if you want to get baptized and you understand that this is something that you do after you've had a real conversion, then you're going to be motivated to do it by the
23:20
Spirit. And so, you'll be the one asking. Yeah, yeah. And maybe a follow -up question, and this is between Mike and Luke to both of you.
23:29
I think every pastor wishes that his son will follow in his footsteps and become a pastor. And you're having conversations around vocation.
23:38
You're having conversations around career choice. You're having conversations around what are you going to study one day? What are you going to do?
23:44
How did you guys negotiate those sorts of matters? Well, can
23:49
I answer that one, dad? Yeah, please do. Well, because it's funny.
23:55
So, my dad was in sales for years, selling medical devices in LA. And he told me about sales and then a pastor.
24:04
And I think I told him even, I was probably like 14, 15, you know, I don't know what I want to do with my life, but I know there's two things
24:12
I don't want to do, be in sales or be a pastor. So, I don't think that there was ever, it wasn't like pushed on me, you need to be a pastor.
24:25
But I think, you know, related to this is this idea when I got to, I went to the master's college and I met all these other pastors, kids, and they're all,
24:34
Oh, you're a pastor's kid. So, you know, just how horrible it is. And I always look at them and be like,
24:40
I don't know what you're talking about. You know, I had a great life. And so I think even though I didn't want to be a pastor, probably partly because I wasn't, wasn't a believer until later in life,
24:51
I never had the negative associations with pastoral ministry of,
24:56
Oh, you're not going to spend any time with your family. Oh, you're not going to, you're going to not have a normal life. There's going to be all these expectations stacked on you.
25:04
I never had, I never had any of that. And so I think that there wasn't a bitterness towards it.
25:10
And then as the Lord sovereignly started working in my life, then I started to have opportunities to preach and more and more moving into that desire.
25:19
Yeah. And when Luke was younger, I, I do a lot of stupid things, but I never pushed him into ministry.
25:26
I just tried to push them into the Lord Jesus loves the local church, even though there are spots and blemishes.
25:32
We love the local church. Our life is surrounded, whether I'm a pastor or not, is surrounded by these
25:38
Christians and Lord's day worship. And then I just tried to do things that a dad would do, even if he wasn't a pastor.
25:45
And that is appeal to manliness. So I have a section of my library on that side of the room about nine books that every boy should read.
25:54
And it's Shackleton with Endurance and it's Sergeant York in World War I and it's
26:01
Band of Brothers and it's Lewis and Clark, those kinds of books. And so I thought Luke probably would join the military because I'm pushing all this military stuff.
26:13
And so I just think, you know, sometimes we think, oh, Luther's right in so many things and here's there no distinction between priest and laity and everything else.
26:23
But then functionally, when it comes to pastors and their children, we still act like that. I'm just a regular person at a local church.
26:29
I happen to have a gift of teaching, so I'm the pastor. But other than that, it's let's wakeboard, let's surf, let's snowboard, let's do all these fun things.
26:39
I mean, I tried my best to try to create, and again, it's more my wife's doing than mine.
26:46
How could you manufacture a son that you would really love? I mean, I already love him, but here's the kind of music you need to listen to.
26:55
By the way, Luke, you do have a cough button there that you can use a cough button if you want. Oh, I'm sorry. And so, okay.
27:01
That was a little
27:08
Yeah. So anyway, let's just have a lot of fun, right? The joy of the
27:13
Lord is our strength. And I try, when I meet people in person, if they know I'm a Calvinist, then
27:19
I try to be the most joyous, fun Calvinist to be around and kind of get them to think through things.
27:25
And I want to do the same thing with Luke and his sisters. We're just going to have a lot of fun. We don't have to pay for our sins.
27:32
And so everything else is just extra and gravy. And so let's travel the world. Let's do fun things.
27:39
And I'm going to be around to watch the kids do those fun things. Yeah. Amen. So Luke, tell me, you sort of have this change at some point, right?
27:47
You're thinking, okay, definitely don't want to go into sales or pastoral ministry. And then at some point, what you mentioned, you kind of get, you reckon, at some point you get saved.
27:58
And then you start thinking, wait a minute, actually, pastoral ministry sounds good. Well, talk to me about that.
28:04
How did that, how did that play out? Yeah. So I was, uh,
28:09
I actually did want to join the military. That was my plan. So I went to the master's college. I was trying to do a political, I was doing a political studies major.
28:17
So I thought it would help. And I was going to try to be an officer in the military, some branch of the military. So that was the plan.
28:23
Yeah. And then, yeah, I just, there was some sin in my life that got exposed and I super convicted.
28:30
And I think for the first time, really true conviction over sin and finally understood the gospel.
28:38
And then as I was at masters, I just started to have opportunities to teach.
28:44
So I started helping out with the youth ministry at the church. And so I started having opportunities to say, oh, can you teach on whatever first John two, so that I would talk to my dad and I'd study a little bit and it was all just kind of, oh, well,
28:56
I want to serve in the church someday. And then as I started to do that more and more, just started studying the
29:03
Bible, learning, growing, being excited about the Bible. There was a professor named Abner Chow there at masters who he, you know, he's dispensational, but I don't know how,
29:14
I mean, you know, he reads Klein and all these guys. It's like every time he talks about the old Testament, it's like Christ.
29:20
And so I just started to get really excited about the Bible. And then through that, had more opportunities to teach and people kind of confirming that gift.
29:29
And that's sort of how that all went out, went down. But I think a big part of that is I didn't have any bitterness about pastoral ministry.
29:36
So it wasn't that my dad did anything to force me to be a pastor, but he didn't do anything that made me think
29:43
I'd never want to be a pastor. I thought that sounded boring. So I wanted to join the military instead.
29:49
Right. Totally. Yeah. And that's the best possible thing. I mean, just hearing you talk,
29:55
I mean, can you imagine anything worse than going into pastoral ministry because of some weird pressure that your father put on you?
30:02
I mean, wow. Talk about, I mean, and look, I'm sure that there are like millions who have done that over the years, but I mean, could you think of anything more?
30:14
When I studied theology in Pretoria in South Africa, a lot of the guys were
30:21
Dutch Reformed, studying to be Dutch Reformed pastors. And they were in the same theological college as I was.
30:29
And a lot of them, when I asked them what they were doing there, they said, well, you know, my older brothers, you know, taking over the family business or whatever.
30:36
So this was something that the only other thing my parents wanted me to do, you know, and it was literally going back to that traditional of what the first born does, what the second born does.
30:46
And they were being pushed into it by their parents. Like that was what was happening. And their parents weren't even pastors.
30:52
It was just like, you know, yeah, it was scary. Now the big problem we have is
30:59
Luke will say to me, dad, should I pick up the four volume of Bob Inc or Turretin?
31:05
And I'll say, well, you can probably live without it for a while because when I die, you get my library. And so you have my copy.
31:13
To this day, I remember in the car, Luke is, I think about 20 years old. We're going to drive up to Santa Cruz.
31:19
That's where my wife's from. We have a little place there and we're listening to Bob Marley on the radio and cranked up driving from LA to Northern California.
31:29
And Luke said, dad, dad, can I turn the radio down, please? Yeah, sure. I've got to tell you I'm learning in Abner Chow's class on Job.
31:37
Job is the first book written and it makes you ask the questions what to look for later in the
31:43
Bible and the other 65 books. Is there a mediator who can put his hand on God and his hand on me?
31:48
Is there forgiveness of sins? Is there resurrection of life? Who is the one who can be a mediator who can forgive sins and be resurrected?
31:57
That's who you look for in the rest of the Bible. And Luke was all excited about it. I thought this is so wonderful because I could tell it was from his heart.
32:05
The Lord was working on him and I thought, away we go. So long, Bob Marley.
32:10
Here comes Job. Amen. Oh, man, that's fantastic. It's kind of like, you know, just,
32:17
I mean, to have, especially because then you're sort of halfway in. I mean, at the end of the day, that's what you want. You want to be driven by this love for Scripture because that's what's going to carry you through preaching in season and out season.
32:28
And, you know, I mean, they're going to be highs. They're going to be lows. They're going to be, you know, I mean, ultimately, in my opinion, you know, any other motive is not going to work.
32:38
You've just got to love the Bible and want other people to know about what's in there that you found, basically. You know, that's what's going to get you up out of bed when everything else is going crazy.
32:48
And so, yeah. Amen. Thanks for listening today to part one, Two -Age Sojourner with Luke and Mike Abendroth, with the hosts
32:57
Mike, Andre, and Nick. Glad you listened. Tune in tomorrow, same bat time, same bat channel, for the second part of Two -Age