October 22, 2024 Show with with Dr. James R. White on “The Presidential Election & More”

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October 23, 2024

00:03: Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
00:10: George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
00:16: Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
00:57: And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
01:20: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 22nd day of October 2024, and this is the first live broadcast in weeks here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:38: I think the last live show we did was a week before the
01:45: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, which featured Dr. Joe Boot, founder and president of the
01:53: Ezra Institute, which was an overwhelming success and blessing.
02:00: I continue to get praise reports from pastors who attended that event, just ecstatic over their whole experience, not only just being there and sharing fellowship, but also hearing
02:15: Dr. Boot. And it was great to see how many men stuck around past the hour that we had advertised for the conclusion of the event to be involved in a
02:30: Q &A, and there were a lot of good questions. A very mixed audience within evangelicalism, of course, from dispensational to amill to probably a minority of post -mill, which is the position that Dr.
02:45: Boot takes. But it was just a really wonderful time together.
02:51: And the video of that message by Dr. Boot is available on YouTube, and I have posted it on Facebook, and if you need a link for it, just send me an email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com,
03:07: and I'll send that out to you. But the reason for the delay in having a live show was because of the perfect storm, as they say, of several factors.
03:20: Number one, the extremely busy schedule I had arranging for the free biannual pastors luncheon with Dr.
03:29: Boot, but also getting hit really big time once again with the coronavirus and not only that, but even when the virus itself dissipated,
03:44: I have still been left with some residual effects that are so debilitating that I've gone to the doctor, my brother in Christ, Dr.
03:57: Joel Yeager of Heritage Family Health, one of the few physicians I trust, a man who stood against the mask mandates and still stands against taking the coronavirus vaccines and warns about them or warns against them.
04:15: But I will keep you all updated on these test results.
04:21: Hopefully, my congestive heart failure has not returned, but some of the symptoms
04:26: I'm experiencing are reminiscent of that very frightening time in my life having to deal with that.
04:36: But today we have a returning guest, one of my closest friends and one of my favorite people on the planet
04:43: Earth to interview, Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, and he is going to be discussing the election that we are all riveted to our
05:01: TV screens and computers, trying to see what is developing about this.
05:09: And if we have time, we may switch topics before the end of the program, perhaps even for the whole latter half of the show.
05:17: But it's such an honor, Dr. White, that you have squeezed into your extremely busy schedule while you are traveling, you know, jumping on board here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio when you could be doing other better things, and I appreciate it more than you know.
05:37: Well, you know, Chris, I was going to say I got up at 4 .30 this morning to drive hundreds of miles through construction zones and everything else just to just to be on Iron Sharpens Iron, because, look, it's sort of a rare thing in life to have the opportunity to be interviewed by Chris Arntzen, who is well known.
06:05: I mean, no one's going to argue with this, but you are, without a question, the best known
06:11: Christian journalist and interviewer in all of central
06:17: Pennsylvania. And all of Cumberland County.
06:26: Cumberland County. There is no one walking around the Gettysburg battlefield today that could even hold a candle to you.
06:33: And so, you know, that's why I got up at 4 .30 in the morning, dodged semi tractor trailers and and the whole nine yards.
06:42: And so so here we are with with Chris Arntzen. And it's it's truly exciting to have this opportunity.
06:50: By the way, you know, I make you laugh now, but I didn't when we first met.
06:55: Well, I may have made you laugh, but it was sort of a laugh derision. But and it's all your fault, because when we first met,
07:04: I was a straight laced, boring, dark tie wearing,
07:12: Trinity hymnal singing, Reformed Baptist. My first words to you were, where did you get?
07:18: How did you get this number? And you persevered despite my my cold shoulder initially.
07:24: And I just think people should know that, you know, you started the process of breaking me down and and making me what
07:33: I am today, picking me up at the airport there in New York. And we went to dinner at a at a diner,
07:42: I think. And that was scary enough as it was. But then to just really make it all work out real well, you then took me to a crack hotel and left me over.
07:54: Well, that that crack hotel, which I did not know was a crack hotel, was highly recommended me by the owner of the
08:03: Coral House, who at the time was actually a member of the church where I was a member.
08:09: I was kicked back from the from the people who stayed there. Yes, I have often wondered what kind of kickbacks he got from that place.
08:17: But anyway, we better rush by that topic. Dr. White has developed a wonderful habit now that has even increased in his skill of encouraging me with wonderful words that energize me and give me confidence before a radio show like today.
08:39: And he happens to look at me through the Microsoft Teams link, which you cannot see us, but we can see each other.
08:46: And the first thing, the very first thing out of his mouth is, you're wearing an old man's shirt.
08:52: And I said, why is this an old man's shirt? He said, because you're wearing it and you're old. Yeah, well, we're pretty much very close to the same age.
09:05: So yeah, you're a year behind me. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think I've, yeah,
09:11: I've ridden one hundred and sixty nine thousand miles on a bike now. So I think that's probably put me ahead of you as far as where on the old old body is concerned.
09:20: But yeah, you know, we were how old were we when we first started?
09:27: I was ninety eight. Yeah, yes.
09:32: In fact, by the way, I hope that Pastor Claude Ramsey of Reformata Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee is listening because he actually already submitted a question that you're answering.
09:46: Would you and Dr. White care to talk about the formative years of your relationship together? I greatly appreciate both of your steadfast walks with the
09:54: Lord and your faithfulness to the gospel. Well, we're doing that, Claude. I hope you're listening live right now. Yeah, sort of in a humorous fashion.
10:03: But yeah, no, we were we were a lot younger back then. I happened to see a picture that someone snapped of me and Mitch Pacwa at our first debate there on Long Island.
10:15: And I hadn't shaved. You know, I didn't I didn't get rid of the last remnants off the dome until right after the
10:24: Stravinskis debate. And, you know, if you look up Peter Stravinskis on the
10:30: Internet, that's the first thing that comes up these many decades later. That just must make him so unhappy.
10:38: That's the first thing that pops up. But it's what it is. And so, yeah, we were we were much, much younger.
10:44: I had no idea what we were getting into. You were scared to death, didn't really know where I was going to be coming from.
10:52: You had put yourself out there to make all this happen. And that was the very first debate I ever arranged or any major event of any kind where we were in a facility that held 500 people, which we filled.
11:10: And that would be the Coral House. And it was quite a quite an answer to prayer, because as I've learned from these events, people can keep you waiting and you can have less than half of the seats filled with five minutes before the show to begin or before the event to begin.
11:37: And sure enough, that place was jam packed. Yeah, yeah. You were you were a bit nervous about it, and I think you're a little bit nervous about how the debate was going to go right up until my prophecy was fulfilled.
11:52: That's right. It was. You had asked me what I expected from Jerry Kramatik, and I told you, well, if he's like he's always been in the debates we've done before.
12:07: And I don't remember how many we had done. We had done at least one, two, three, four, five.
12:12: We've probably done five or six by that time, two of which, interestingly enough,
12:18: I filled in for Dr. Greg Bonson, who was supposed to debate Jerry in Omaha, Nebraska.
12:24: And Dr. Bonson asked me to take his place, which is why Dr. Bonson then had the ability to do the two debates he did on homosexuality, which were very valuable.
12:33: So that was that was neat. But, you know, I told you what I expected Jerry to say.
12:39: I expected him to show up just before the debate was supposed to start, that he would be very disheveled, that he'd be talking about how his books were still packed up after his last move and all he'd had to eat today was a
12:54: Diet Coke. I'm not sure you'd call that eating. But and that he felt like he was taking on, you know, he was
13:02: David taking on Goliath because I'm such a good debater. And and you were looking at me fairly strangely when
13:10: I was telling you all this. You were like, really? OK, you know.
13:16: And so, you know, five minutes before the debate was supposed to start in strides, Jerry and he's got his tattered books and his yellow pad of paper and he's disheveled.
13:27: And and the first thing he does and he gets up and I was watching you. You're in the back of the room. I can see. And he basically
13:35: I almost quoted him. I mean, everything I just said is what he said at the beginning of the debate.
13:41: And the look on your face was just like. I can remember when when you were looking at me across a crowded room of hundreds of people, our eyes did lock as you saw my stunned reaction to this.
13:59: And after that, you trusted me. Yes. And I can't even remember how long after this, this occurred.
14:09: But somehow I had a tape back then. I don't even know how many of our listeners know what a tape is, an audio cassette.
14:17: But I'm in my office for WMCA Radio before I had
14:24: Iron Sherpins Iron. And I wanted to listen to something in the background while I was working.
14:31: And I had this tape of a debate between Jerry Matitix and Eric Svensson.
14:37: And I said, I'll pop this in the the cassette player and I'm working away.
14:43: And all of a sudden, Jerry's introduced. He ascends to the podium and says, by the way, folks,
14:50: I feel like David biting Goliath today as I am matched up with Eric Svensson, who is a formidable opponent.
14:58: And please forgive me for arriving a little late and looking a little out of breath and disheveled. I was
15:03: I couldn't believe it. I said, does this man not know that these things are filmed and recorded?
15:12: I mean, mind boggling. Just like Ergen Kaner.
15:19: I was about that's exactly what I was about to say. I'm not sure how many people even know who
15:26: Ergen Kaner was. But yeah, he's still out there. Someone sent me some some video of a church thing he spoke at just a few months ago.
15:37: And he's still he's still claiming to have been raised as a Muslim and all the rest of this kind of stuff.
15:44: And it's it's it's sad. But yeah, that was always my thought with him was, doesn't he know he's going to, you know, when you sit in front of a microphone, don't you know you're going to get caught making your
15:55: Arabic? Yeah. Making it Arabic. Yeah. Did it never cross his mind that there might be some
16:02: Arabic speakers who have access to microphones, too? I mean, who knows?
16:07: But anyway, yeah, so it's been, you know. Coming up on, let's see, 98.
16:15: Yeah, we're we're over. Wow. Yeah, we're definitely over a quarter of a century of doing crazy, wild things like that.
16:23: So I've got I've got five grandchildren now. And the mom of those grandchildren, those children came out of all those years and loved to hear your
16:38: Long Island accents and wasn't just one of those years. She came,
16:43: I think it was not just one of those years. She came as a little kid when she would sit in the backseat of my car and say,
16:53: Mr. Arnson, can you say coffee again? And I would just split her and Josh up, crack them up by saying coffee and chocolate.
17:07: But also she came out as an older teenager at the Huntington townhouse.
17:14: I can't remember which. I think it was the Peter Stravinsky's debate. Well, yeah.
17:19: And then she better go with, oh, you know, she'd come to Tuscarora. And I know if you remember when
17:25: Josh and her and I did the Matrix thing where we, you know, we we did the same time you did comedy stuff.
17:34: It wasn't the same year you did the Martin, Marty, Marty, Marty, Marty Luther stuff.
17:39: But yeah. Yeah. So we had a lot of stuff, you know, here you and I are sitting on the front porch in our rocking chairs.
17:50: Everybody else is going, get to the top. I think like all time, you know, began the dividing line.
17:57: I'll talk about what's going on. It's like everybody's like, Josh, get to the topic. We're crying out loud.
18:04: And well, thanks, Claude, for actually asking the question.
18:10: And James began answering it before he even knew you asked it. And I do highly recommend
18:16: Reformata Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee. Claude Ramsey is a superb preacher and also one of the most humble and gracious brothers in Christ I've ever met, especially in the pastorate.
18:29: And that is not an exaggeration. And I hope to see you face to face again for fellowship at some point,
18:35: Claude. Before we get into the topic, since let's see how many questions
18:41: I've got. One, two. We've got two questions, two more questions that have nothing to do with the talk.
18:53: Yeah, that's all right. OK, we have Alexander from Boca Raton, Florida.
19:03: I still wasn't sure of the topic of today's show, but I'm hoping you could ask the question either way.
19:11: I'm writing a polemics paper for Reformed Baptist Seminary. Dr. White's lectures for the class were very helpful, and I appreciated them a lot.
19:22: My question to him is this. What are some good primary Catholic sources, either written or in video format, that explain the
19:32: Eucharist in the Catholic Church as a representation of the sacrifice of the cross during their
19:41: Mass? Also, for the other listeners, can you have Dr.
19:46: White explain how this undermines the atonement of Jesus Christ? Well, that's the topic of the debate next
19:55: Saturday in Mobile, Alabama. I'm debating, and you'll find this interesting, I'm debating my second ordained
20:06: PCA minister who became a Roman Catholic. And you remember the first one. That was, in fact,
20:12: Jerry Matitix. And so this fellow has become
20:18: Roman Catholic. He works for the Archdiocese, for the Diocese of Birmingham, not Archdiocese, but anyway.
20:25: And our specific topic that we'll be debating, this is the thesis.
20:32: And this is the thesis he came up with. I didn't suggest he came up with it. Be it resolved, the true worship of God is nothing less than the self -offering of Christ, which is only offered in the
20:46: Catholic liturgy. So that's a pretty bold statement.
20:52: And in fact, I'll be honest with you, I don't think Francis believes that. Given the stuff he said recently,
21:00: I don't think he believes that at all. And so that sort of addresses the question as asking for primary sources.
21:09: Well, you can go from the Fourth Lateran Council, the
21:16: Council of Trent. There's lots of stuff found in Denzinger's Enchiridion, which is a collection of official dogmatic teachings of the
21:27: Roman Catholic Church, all the way through Vatican II. That is consistently presented at that point.
21:36: But here's the point. Who gets to interpret that? Who gets to interpret what that means?
21:43: Right now, you have the synod and synodality taking place and wrapping up.
21:51: And what that has demonstrated is Francis wants a, how shall we say it, more inclusive kind of Roman Catholicism in the future.
22:08: And who's the final authority? You know, you had Bob's in Geneson last year,
22:13: I think, after I debated, or maybe it might have been earlier this year. See, we're so old, we don't remember anymore.
22:20: But you had Bob's in Geneson, and years and years ago,
22:27: Bob and I had crossed swords in email over something he heard me say, where I had presented a conflict between what
22:36: John Paul II had said and what had been said by an earlier council or pope or something like that about religious freedom.
22:44: And he was basically saying to me, well, who are you to pretend to interpret these things?
22:50: Only the church can interpret these things. And once you buy that, then the church can say, oh, we've always interpreted this way, that way, whatever way we are doing it now.
23:01: Um, there's no more objective truth left to be able to hold
23:06: Roman Catholicism to. So there isn't any question what the post -Reformation, counter -Reformation
23:16: Jesuit theologians were teaching about the sacrifice of the mass. But if you allow popes over years and years and years to keep putting people into positions of leadership who are going to give you a different perspective on this thing, on these things, you can change the teaching of the church without ever having to come out and go, we're changing the teaching of the church.
23:44: That's what's so problematic about Roman Catholic authority claims, is that they can change at any point in time.
23:54: And I'm not sure how much that's going to come up in the debate next week or what, we'll see.
24:03: My concern about the debate next Saturday, this coming Saturday, is that I've never heard this gentleman speak on anything.
24:15: I asked, and he said he hadn't recorded anything on it. And so he can go back and listen to hours and hours of what
24:25: I've said on the topic. I can't do that in preparation for him. And so that is a little uncomfortable.
24:34: And as far as how this undermines the biblical teaching of the
24:40: Atonement Christ provided on the cross, I can recall years ago, while setting up the debates that you do, someone who was a friend,
24:54: I think, I can't even remember now for certain if it was a friend, but somebody who was not Reformed, who said to me, hey, why don't you ever get somebody that isn't a
25:04: Calvinist to debate the Catholics in these debates that you're arranging? And I said, because there is a certain topic, there are certain topics specifically hinged to the divide between Rome and the
25:22: Reformation, between Rome and the Scriptures, that only a logically consistent, thoroughgoing
25:30: Calvinist can properly answer. And this is one of those issues,
25:36: I think, and also the whole issue of purgatory. Yeah.
25:43: Yeah, especially, I've said many times that the majority of evangelicals, non -Reformed in particular, though these days
25:54: I'm not sure how many Reformed people really know a whole lot about their own history or are consistent about it, but most evangelicals, their view of the atonement, their view of the cross, has been formed much more by hymns.
26:12: And hey, there are some good hymns on the subject, but much more by hymnology and by tradition and by emotion than by a biblical examination of the issue.
26:31: And the problem with that is the most important book to address the subject of the atonement is the book of Hebrews.
26:40: And Hebrews is a closed book for a lot of modern Christians, because Hebrews assumes a foundational knowledge in the
26:50: Tanakh, the Torah, the Levite, the Ketuvim, what we call the Hebrew Scripture. And if you don't have that, then a lot of people are just left going,
26:59: I just never understood that book. It just seems so strange to me, because it's constantly making references to passages from Leviticus.
27:08: And look, most people try to read through the Bible, they make it through Exodus and then hit
27:15: Leviticus and give up till next year. And so it's a bit of a problem.
27:22: And to consistently respond to Rome's argumentation does require a thoroughly biblical doctrine of atonement.
27:34: And in my opinion, the vast majority of evangelicals have never even been challenged to think through that particular subject.
27:44: And so most of the evangelical responses to Roman Catholicism are not overly weighty.
27:58: And the better Roman Catholic apologists can get around them, and in fact, can sort of anticipate them.
28:06: They already have their answers ready, and they can just go for it. And by the way, I don't mean by that to say that all
28:13: Catholic apologists are going to give overly weighty responses to our arguments.
28:19: I think we saw a good illustration earlier this year when I attempted to do two debates with Jimmy Akin, and his response after I'd sit down would be, well,
28:31: I'm not going to argue about words. Yeah, right. It's just like, what? What are you doing here?
28:38: Even his fellow Roman Catholic, Bob St. Genes, thought that was absolutely ludicrous.
28:44: Yeah, well, you know, and say what you will about Bob, at least he would debate.
28:50: He wouldn't stand up there and say, well, I'm not going to respond to anything there, because it's amazing.
28:57: So anyhow, yes, I hope that on Saturday, I will have sufficient time to really give a a clear presentation of what the
29:09: Bible teaches about the atoning sacrifice of Christ. But you've got to recognize,
29:15: I'm not the one who gets to chart the direction we're going to go. He goes first. He's debating the thesis.
29:22: We'll sort of see what type of emphasis he's going to give. But it'll be interesting.
29:27: I think that'll be 193 or 194. I've actually got to go look which one that is.
29:33: I'm just hoping to live long enough to get to 200. And at that point, maybe we'll just put me out to pasture.
29:42: My mom used to just shoot me and give my body to the glue factory or something like that.
29:53: So we'll see. Reminds me of an episode of All in the Family when
29:58: Archie said, when I die, just wheel me out to the curb and put my hat on.
30:08: But we're going to go to our first commercial break. And Kevin from Wading River, Long Island, we will get to you when we return.
30:15: And then we hope to concentrate on the election that we are all anticipating.
30:23: And if you have questions, we're not going to absolutely require that they be about the election, that we would prefer that the majority of them be about that.
30:34: But obviously, Kevin, you've already sent in your question that has nothing to do with that. So we will ask your question.
30:41: But send in your questions to chrisorenson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.
30:47: Don't go away. We are going to be right back with more.
31:31: We believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired word of God inherent in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.
31:48: We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God was purchased by Christ on the cross and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works or ritual.
32:04: Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear
32:12: God's image. If you live near Linbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the
32:18: Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit linbrookbaptist .org.
32:24: That's linbrookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Linbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves.
32:37: It is the gift of God, not a result of words, so that no one may boast of the
32:43: Lord's blessing in the knowledge of himself. I'm Pastor Bill Shishko of The Haven, an
32:59: Orthodox Presbyterian church in Comac, Long Island. I hold the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program hosted by my longtime friend and brother,
33:09: Chris Arnson, in the highest esteem, and I'm thrilled that you're listening today. I'm also delighted that Iron Sharpens Iron is partnering with one of my favorite resources for Reformed Christian literature for decades now,
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35:19: But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.
35:33: Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.
35:40: In the film Chariots of Fire, Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt
35:46: God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.
35:52: I sense that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.
36:00: That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a Savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.
36:12: I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the
36:19: Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit
36:24: NHPBC .com. That's NHPBC .com.
36:31: You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.
36:38: That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.
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39:50: I failed to mention this earlier, I owe a big shout -out to my very dear longtime friend and brother in Christ, Eric Nielsen, the webmaster for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, for bailing me out once again as I feebly attempted to install a new soundboard for the
40:11: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio studio. I tried to do it on my own and could not do it, and that's no shock to anybody who knows me.
40:20: And Eric was able to guide me over the phone being in Illinois and me being in Pennsylvania until it was successfully installed.
40:30: And I want to thank Eric from the bottom of my heart for all he does. It's those guys like Eric who do the behind -the -scenes things that very rarely get any public accolades or definitely no addition to his income that warrant even more respect and praise from me whenever I can remember to do that.
40:54: So thank you, Eric, for all you do for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Okay, for those of you who just tuned in, our guest today is my dear friend going back to 1996,
41:06: Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and we are going to be shortly discussing the upcoming election, and if we have time, we're going to switch topics before the end of the show.
41:19: But before we get to that topic, we promised Kevin from Wading River—by the way,
41:24: James, Kevin is one of the original Whiteheads. I don't know if you remember a group that identified as the
41:34: Whiteheads that used to get to the debates like two hours early so that they could get the front row, and they were always enthusiastic supporters of you in these debates, and Kevin was one of these self -identified
41:50: Whiteheads from Long Island, a retired Suffolk County police officer, in fact, a captain of Suffolk County Police, and I have known
42:03: Kevin for many years and owe him a debt of gratitude for his being such a wonderful brother in Christ to me personally.
42:12: But Kevin asks, unfortunately or surprisingly, it seems that hyper -preterism is gaining ground and being adopted by many former evangelicals who have been persuaded by the carefully crafted arguments and proof texts of the hyper -preterist apologists.
42:34: They seem to persuade people of the truth of orthodox preterism, aka partial preterism, and then lead them down an interpretive trail that all prophecy is a time text related to 70
42:49: AD, including the second coming, general resurrection, and judgment. I say all of this for the sake of the listeners.
42:58: I know you are already aware of this heresy and its danger. Maybe you can comment on your own knowledge and experience with hyper -preterism and hyper -preterists.
43:08: How much is this a growing problem, and have you ever considered debating this issue?
43:19: Yeah, I know that Doug Wilson has addressed this a few times last year.
43:26: There was some major conversations about it in regards to well -known names of individuals who have adopted that perspective as well.
43:43: Asking if I'm going to do debates on eschatology is sort of like asking if Kamala Harris is going to do a number of more in -depth interviews with people who ask her serious questions about the election.
43:57: In fact, I just got a notification that she declined actually to go on Joe Rogan.
44:03: Trump's going to go on, but she won't. When I first heard that that was even being discussed,
44:09: I was sort of like, uh, I can't imagine Joe Rogan backing off.
44:15: Brent Baird didn't back off, and Rogan wouldn't back off. I can't imagine that happening, and so it's not.
44:24: That's not surprising. The point being, I don't believe that I have the energy to become the expert on eschatology that I would have to engage this stuff.
44:40: My fellow elder, Jeff Durbin, has done stuff on this. Yeah, I've actually interviewed him on the show on that very issue, because he is a former hyperparoterist.
44:50: So, there are people that do this a whole lot better than I would, so no,
44:56: I would consider that. I don't know how big it's getting. I mean, there are some names of people that you could name that are going that direction, but I think most people recognize that once people go down that path, it becomes all -consuming.
45:16: Everything else just becomes sort of an ancillary sideshow, and that's one of the things that I think
45:25: I would suggest to everybody. When you see people getting on to new things, does it consume them, or can they maintain a balance in their teaching and in what they address?
45:42: When it comes to hyperparoterism, all of them that I've seen,
45:49: I get notes from them all the time, like, you need to debate me. If you make any comment whatsoever about escapology or you criticize this perspective or that perspective, it's got to be them, them, them.
46:03: They have their own particular perspective, their own particular view. I don't know that a lot of those guys actually get along real well with each other, to be honest with you.
46:14: It's definitely not monolithic at all. No, no. There seems to be a little infighting.
46:21: When you've got that small of a group to begin with, there's only so much of the pie that you can cut off for yourself.
46:32: I don't see it being a a big, huge movement.
46:38: But I'll be honest with you, some people go looking for that kind of stuff, and I don't have the time to.
46:49: I don't have the staff to. It's just me and Rich in the ministry, and I don't have the time to go looking for that kind of stuff.
46:58: That's why I was so stunned three or four months ago when
47:05: Hitler wasn't all that bad of a guy. He was a
47:10: Christian prince. The Jews behind everything started happening.
47:17: It's not that it started then. It's that I made a comment about it on the dividing line, and everybody in their sect and cousins started coming after me on Twitter, which is my primary social media platform where I actually talk and discuss things.
47:35: So I actually have felt pretty stupid. How could
47:41: I have missed this? It's not like this stuff just grows up overnight, even though, to be honest with you, a lot of this stuff right now has pretty much grown up since 2020.
47:57: And for some people, that seems like a long time ago, but it really wasn't. And I think hyperbole and that side
48:10: B Nazi stuff and everything else, I think it appeals to people that are looking for something new.
48:21: They feel like they've been lied to. They look around. The whole world seems to be falling apart, and the only way they can see how they fit into all this is if they glom onto some new, exciting—we used to call them conspiracy theories, but the fact of the matter is, we've discovered that we've been lied to so many times by the government and by people we trusted that it's pretty easy to get people to go almost any direction anymore.
48:56: And so sometimes hyper -preterism becomes that thing, though I have seen a lot of people just burn out of that, just give up on it eventually.
49:08: And I have a feeling a lot of the folks that are getting a hold of a lot of weird stuff right now will eventually just burn out on it, because it's not biblical, it doesn't have the spirit, so you're not going to have that ability to maintain it over time.
49:24: And so, yeah, I mean, it does need to be preached against, but the problem is you preach against one guy, and this other guy says, oh, yeah, he's not the one.
49:37: You need to look at this guy. And it can be difficult. You frequently have to be very general in what you're presenting.
49:46: And Kevin asked for resources that address this. I know of one good one by Keith Matheson of Ligonier Ministries, which is a volume he edited,
50:00: When Shall These Things Be?, a reformed response to hyper -preterism. And there's a spectrum of eschatological views held by the opponents of hyper -preterism, so you don't have a completely unified partial preterist voice against hyper -preterism, but it's still an excellent book.
50:22: Anything else you care to mention? Well, and then you're going to have a bibliography there. That's generally how you do it, is you get a fairly recent source, and then you mine the bibliography, mine the footnotes.
50:34: That's the best way to do it. There are others that have written books, so unfortunately, as I'm sitting here, that's not something
50:43: I've been thinking about for a long time, so I'm thinking of names, but the names aren't coming to me.
50:49: A lot of names don't come to me anymore, Bob. I'm thinking of one particular guy who was a former
50:59: Frost, I think. Last name Frost? Oh, yeah, Sam Frost. I hosted the debate between him and Don Preston on my show.
51:09: Right, right, right. Yeah, so there would be someone who would certainly know pretty much everything that's been published on that particular topic over the past 50 years, and of course,
51:20: I do love Sam Frost. He's a friend and brother, but he isn't any kind of a preterist now, so I would disagree with him on his objection even now to partial preterism.
51:32: Sam Frost was a hyper -preterist and a right -hand man of Don Preston, which is one of the reasons
51:40: I wanted to host the debate, but I think that Sam goes too far in his objections which even rule out partial preterism.
51:52: By the way, just quickly, because it's not going to be the main topic we're going to address, but have you adopted that as well in your theological journey?
52:03: I know that many of our listeners may remember when you were an Amillennialist, and I'm assuming that you were not even a partial preterist at that time.
52:13: Have you also, in addition to becoming a post -millennial and theonomic reconstructionist, have you also adopted partial preterism?
52:24: Well, I'm not sure how you would be Amill without some recognition of historical fulfillment or of certain aspects of the
52:37: Olivet Discourse and stuff like that. I happen to be Amill, and I am a partial preterist. As was
52:46: I. When I first started going to Apology at Church, I think, as I recall, in late 2018, when
53:01: I first started going there, Jeff had been preaching through Matthew for years and was in Matthew 23, so I was there for all of Matthew 24.
53:15: He just beats you down. You just give in and go,
53:21: OK, fine. Could we get to Matthew 25? Oh, three more weeks? OK. Yeah. That's how that works.
53:29: I'll leave that stuff for the younger guys to fight about. I think if you start off early enough, you can have enough time to do that, but I'm starting at it too late, so I don't have the energy for it.
53:42: Well, we have to go to our midway break, folks. Please be patient with us. It's longer than the breaks. Please send in your questions to chrisarnson at gmail .com.
53:50: We'll be right back. Don't go away. It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.
54:08: Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,
54:17: Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Ottawa in County Kildare, Ireland.
54:25: Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is
54:30: Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
54:43: Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.
54:49: Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.
54:55: Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the
55:00: Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great
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55:40: That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them
55:46: Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener, from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sends you.
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01:09:42: And also, I want to announce one of my favorite preachers,
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01:10:56: And we are now back with our guest today, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. If you do have a question about the election, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,
01:11:08: chrisarnson at gmail .com. And Dr. White, if you could, tell us what's on your mind about this upcoming election.
01:11:20: Well, I think everyone, I would imagine the vast majority of believers who are concerned, aware of the possibilities of what could happen, are praying about this situation, have had to think through.
01:11:43: Let's put this, we've had to put a whole lot more thought into this election than I think any election we've ever had in the past.
01:11:50: And I know when I first started voting as a teenager, as an 18 -year -old, the difference between the two sides was not the difference between two countries.
01:12:08: And yet that's pretty much where we are now, to be perfectly honest with you. I sometimes engage in conversation.
01:12:16: I had someone come by my home, knock on the door a few days ago, and I walked away from that conversation realizing that we are a divided nation, and there are two nations within one set of borders.
01:12:35: And one of the problems is we can't define what the borders are anymore. And I don't know how long that can last,
01:12:42: I'll be perfectly honest with you. Someone very wise said a nation divided against itself, a house divided against itself cannot stand.
01:12:50: And it's just inertia, I think, that's keeping us going. But there's been so much discussion theologically amongst good, solid
01:13:03: Christians. There are good, solid Christians who, because of the change in the
01:13:09: Republican platform, with the diminishment of any emphasis upon a pro -life position, with a diminishment of any emphasis upon a
01:13:17: Christian view of marriage, are going, look, in 2010,
01:13:23: I wouldn't have voted for the Democrats because they held these positions. Now the Republicans do too.
01:13:29: So I can't possibly see how I could, in good conscience, vote for a party that is no longer holding the positions it once did.
01:13:44: It does seem like the Republicans are just the Democrats in slow motion. And the idea of a serious worldview foundation for the
01:13:58: Republicans seems to be completely lacking, with almost all of them.
01:14:03: There are a few exceptions, but in general. And the worldview being presented by Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, and I believe the people in control of them telling them what to say and when to say it, is very clear.
01:14:23: And they are unashamed about promoting that worldview.
01:14:29: You noticed just a few days ago, someone at a
01:14:35: Harris campaign called out Jesus as Lord, and Kamala Harris goes off script, and off teleprompter to say, you're at the wrong rally.
01:14:48: I can guarantee you that her handlers, if they had hair, didn't have hair after that, because they pulled it out by the bunches.
01:15:00: But that's when you say the things that are really most representative of your worldview, is when you're speaking off the top of your head.
01:15:11: And there's no question that her worldview, which again, I don't think her worldview is what would end up determining policy, because I don't believe that either her or Tim Walz would actually have any more day -to -day decision -making power than Joe Biden did for the past number of years.
01:15:36: But the worldview of the left, and I've said this and people get upset with me, but I'm just like, what could we talk about for a second?
01:15:48: The Marxist worldview, which is now very prevalent in our universities. Kamala Harris's father is an economist.
01:15:57: He's still alive, and his writings are available, his positions are available, and he is deeply influenced by Karl Marx.
01:16:08: He suggested many, many years ago in the context of economics, food price controls in Jamaica, which led to all sorts of problems, because it always does.
01:16:28: It ends up in food charges and everything else. Well, what was Kamala Harris talking about just a month and a half ago?
01:16:36: Food price controls. Allegedly, our grocery stores are gouging us.
01:16:45: Well, they're not. They live on a 1 .5 % profit margin. If you want to know who's gouging us, look at what almost any
01:16:53: Apple product actually costs to produce and what they're selling it for. There's about a 56 % profit margin there.
01:17:02: So if you want to talk about price gouging, you've got to go someplace else. But the point is that what
01:17:08: I'm seeing when it comes to worldview issues is one side's being rather open now with their worldview, and the supposed conservatives are embarrassed by taking any particular worldview position.
01:17:27: The reason for this is quite simple, I think. Our younger generation has been thoroughly indoctrinated by the public indoctrination system.
01:17:43: It's not an education system anymore. I'm sorry, it's not. You look at the NEA, and the
01:17:49: KGB would be proud of the NEA, all the three -letter groups like that.
01:17:59: Talk about a union that has a very, very clear worldview to its perspective.
01:18:07: The NEA, the teachers' union, very, very much along those lines.
01:18:14: We're getting older. We're dying off. Now, don't get me wrong.
01:18:20: I recognize that there is a demographic crash coming. Most people don't realize that.
01:18:30: A lot of people in our generation are still suffering from the 1970s.
01:18:38: We're all going to be dead by the 1980s. The Earth can't support more than 4 billion people and all the rest of that kind of stuff.
01:18:47: We still have that in the back of our minds somewhere. But there is a demographic crash coming.
01:18:53: I do realize that, and that will have to be taken into consideration mainly by my children and my grandchildren.
01:19:02: Not so much by me, I don't think, depending on how long I live. As long as my dad did, yeah,
01:19:07: I will probably be having to look at it and deal with it. But you and I are going to be having wheelchair races about then, that's about as serious as it gets.
01:19:19: When I say a demographic crash, we are having so few children and have so little concern about the future and about our culture in the future, that there is a demographic crash coming.
01:19:37: Within 50 years, there will be no Japanese law. The Japanese reproduction rate,
01:19:43: I think, has finally dropped below 1 .0. I think it sounded like 0 .95. A culture cannot recover from that.
01:19:52: That's why they're building all the robots. There's not enough people to take care of their older people because they're not reproducing.
01:20:00: America, only a few years ago, was at 2 .1. It needed to be at 2 .2 to continue at a certain level.
01:20:09: We're now down to 1 .6. And even that is due a lot to immigration.
01:20:17: So Russia, real low 1 .0. There is a demographic crash coming, and it's going to have a huge impact.
01:20:28: My hope and prayer is, okay, let's say that happens. There is a complete reorganization of global alignments of power, military, economics, everything.
01:20:45: Maybe that will be at the same time that we recognize that socialism, that communism, and that most importantly, secularism is a dead end.
01:20:59: It's destructive. And we can never do that one again. And that's when we start looking for a reconstruction based upon meaningful principles that recognize that we live in God's world.
01:21:14: And therefore, we need to treat each other the way that God told us to treat each other from the beginning. And maybe that's how it's all going to work.
01:21:24: I don't know. This is not the kind of stuff you and I were thinking about. We had plenty of dinners at various Long Island diners over the years.
01:21:37: And I don't remember any discussions about this stuff, because that really wasn't a part of much of what we were thinking about.
01:21:46: So all of that to say that I've already voted. I had to because I don't get back from this trip until two days after the election.
01:21:58: And so I've already—to use the words of Dr.
01:22:05: Dagnon, have you had Dr. Dagnon? You know, we have talked about it for years. He always says he would like to be on the show, and something typically comes up in his schedule that prevents him.
01:22:16: So hopefully one of these days, we'll be able to do that. Yeah. Well, fascinating fellow.
01:22:23: Fascinating fellow. A brilliant scholar. He's been all across the theological spectrum so far on certain topics.
01:22:32: He's not reformed, even though he was president of the church. He's not reformed. Which is not unusual, believe it or not, even amongst evangelicals in the
01:22:41: PCUSA, which is a rare group to begin with. But they're not all reformed at all. Well, and he's not in the
01:22:48: PCUSA anymore, either. So he went—I think he's, if I recall correctly, his new job is at a
01:22:57: Wesleyan university. I could be wrong about that. But anyways, the point is, the language he is using is, we need to use our vote in a positive way to stop a basically
01:23:14: Marxist worldview from ending freedom and liberty and any type of Christian influence within the
01:23:22: United States. And so he's saying, look, and I would agree, personally—I'll just speak here personally—if someone wanted me to go off for a long period of time on things that bother me about Donald Trump, I could do that quite easily.
01:23:45: And I was doing that back in 2015. To refer to him as a flawed candidate is an understatement.
01:23:54: And, hey, do I like the fact that he just made French fries at McDonald's? Sure.
01:24:00: That was a cute, you know, that's cool. Good way to mock the other side and stuff like that.
01:24:07: Has he done some stuff that you can go, man, that's really—I appreciate that. Yes. But at the same time, there are clearly lots and lots and lots of problems that you could bring up in regards to Donald Trump.
01:24:22: But when you look at the worldview that is being promoted on The Lab, it is the clearest negation of every positive teaching that Jesus gave us about mankind, how we're to relate to one another, that I've ever seen in an
01:24:46: American election. You name the key issues in regards to human sexuality, marriage, male and female.
01:25:02: These individuals want you to be able to be celebrated for murdering your unborn child from conception to the point of birth.
01:25:14: I mean, they're pushing it. They won't accept any limitations.
01:25:21: We have a ballot measure on the ballot in Arizona, Proposition 139, which will enshrine, like the
01:25:32: Ohio measure, abortion until birth as part of the
01:25:40: Constitution of the state of Arizona. Apology has been fighting it tooth and nail from the beginning, but I have a feeling it's going to pass.
01:25:52: So Proposition 4 in Florida. But then, once a child somehow manages to survive the womb, then these folks want to give the state the right to take your children away and mutilate them, mutilate their bodies, mutilate their minds.
01:26:14: It is astonishing when you really realize just how evil this perspective is and how utterly contradictory to any kind of Christian understanding of mankind all this stuff really is.
01:26:35: I wish I could wholeheartedly put my vote behind someone who
01:26:43: I believe would promote Christian values and everything like that, but we're in a situation now, in my personal opinion, if Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are elected and if the left captures at least one of the
01:27:04: House representatives in the Senate chambers, I don't expect to be talking about an election in 2028 in the way we can talk about it now.
01:27:21: I have lots and lots and lots of doubts about the integrity of even this election, but if 2024 goes to the left,
01:27:35: I think in the future, any debate, any elections we're going to be talking about, we'll be talking about in the same way they talked about elections in the
01:27:44: Soviet Union, China, North Korea, where it's still an election, but everybody knows who's going to win it anyway, because it is playing beyond all contradiction that the left, look what they've done to California.
01:27:59: They've made it a monoparty state. That's not a two -party state. There is no meaningful opposition in the state of California.
01:28:06: They can do whatever they want. They have one party rule, and that's what they want in the United States. That's why the borders are wide open, and that's why they don't want any type of ID.
01:28:20: I just checked into a stinking RV park. I'm sitting in a gravel
01:28:28: RV slot with my RV. I'm sitting in the back of it right now. I had to provide an
01:28:35: ID to get in here, but we can't have that for voting.
01:28:42: It is astonishing the open mechanisms that are being used to completely subvert the
01:28:53: Constitution of the United States and to finish this nation as having any meaningful role in the world.
01:29:00: I think Dr. Gagnon is right. For me, I have exercised my current right to vote, to make a positive vote against Marxism and against a worldview that is antithetical to Christianity in every possible way.
01:29:22: I'll admit I'm a little bit selfish here. I'm a little bit selfish. I'd like to have another four years to continue traveling, to continue doing what
01:29:33: I'm doing. What's the national debt now?
01:29:41: $36 trillion? Totally unsustainable. It's going to crash.
01:29:47: It's going to burn. To be honest with you,
01:29:52: I don't know that a Trump victory could change that. It may be too far gone.
01:30:01: At least on the level of being a Christian, I want to seek to say no, no to that entire worldview that is a negation of every positive thing that Jesus ever taught in regards to Matthew 19, male and female, father and mother, children, family, all of it.
01:30:26: I have to say no. I can only see one effective way of doing that.
01:30:35: If I put in a write -in candidate, I can't see how that's going to affect anything as far as stopping what is plainly an incredibly evil perspective and direction that we're going, that will have horrific impact upon my great -grandchildren and my great -great -grandchildren as well.
01:31:00: Of course, the utterly insane arguments by professing
01:31:07: Christians that are so appalled by the brutish behavior of Donald Trump that they are voting for Kamala Harris, that is like saying,
01:31:22: I'm so disgusted by my church's lack of generosity to the poor in my community that I'm joining the
01:31:31: Communist Party or something like that. It doesn't even make any sense that they would think that she is somehow superior even in the areas where they criticize
01:31:44: Trump. I have to admit, in lots of conversations with people,
01:31:53: I am seeing a simple spirit of delusion in the United States right now.
01:32:00: People that I have spoken to in years past, people I have spoken with at conferences.
01:32:08: In 2010, I think it was, I spoke at a conference. If I recall, it was Toronto, Canada.
01:32:13: I know it was in Canada, where I would never go anymore anyways, but I was speaking at a conference in Toronto on evangelizing
01:32:20: Muslims with Sabidi and the Abulili. We got along fine.
01:32:25: We got along great because we're talking about Islam. We're talking about reaching out to Muslims.
01:32:34: In 2010 and 2024, wow, things have changed and he has changed.
01:32:43: When I try to reason with him, it's like I'm talking to a different person than I knew in 2010.
01:32:52: You see a tremendous amount of that that just makes you go, what on earth is taking place?
01:33:00: It really started shifting in 2014. That's when the visions really started ramping up.
01:33:12: We could sit here and talk about what happened in 2018 and then 2020. It's all come together to create this situation where a lot of believers are going, what has happened to us?
01:33:28: Why do we not have a united voice any longer? It's not that we ever had a super united voice in the first place, but at least evangelicals as a whole could come together and say, hey, transgenderism is such an obvious rebellion against the created order.
01:33:48: It's an obvious rebellion against how God has made this world function. Now you don't even expect that.
01:33:57: I just noticed this morning that Jamar Tisby, who graduated from Reform Theological Seminary, and I had some back and forth with in years past, starting in 2016.
01:34:15: I warned him, you seem to be going a direction that is extremely problematic.
01:34:21: Well, he has, and now he's got pronouns in his bio. That's not the only thing, obviously, but he's working for people who are clearly very much a part of an extremely problematic and anti -Christian perspective.
01:34:43: How did that happen? How has that happened so quickly? What happened to cause all this?
01:34:49: You've heard me say it for decades, probably. A united, discerning church, theologically sound church, is a blessing on any nation.
01:35:03: If it is God's intention to judge a nation, then you can expect something like what we're seeing now.
01:35:10: Not a united, discerning church, but a divided church, where seemingly we can over almost anything anymore, sadly.
01:35:20: I honestly think that our prayer should be,
01:35:26: Lord, give us the wisdom to continue to boldly speak your truth, even when we feel like we're about the only ones left.
01:35:38: That may be what we're looking at for a period of time. I don't believe that's always going to be the way it is.
01:35:46: But we live in a land with a lot of blood on its hands, and so God is perfectly just to bring his judgment.
01:35:57: I'm getting the impression that you believe that although Trump has greatly disappointed all
01:36:08: Christians who truly love the unborn, who firmly stand against the murder of the unborn at any stage of development in the womb, those of us who actually feel betrayed by Trump, by his shift, not that he was always completely on the same page as an abolitionist, but a far more biblical approach, not that he was giving the
01:36:40: Bible the credit for it, but just a far more closely resembling position to an abolitionist on abortion to really just mimicking your average liberal's view that you don't like late -term abortion and that kind of a thing.
01:37:02: But even though he has done this, that it is still a way to buy more time by bringing him into power in the
01:37:16: White House because of the utter insanity that also puts the very
01:37:23: Church of Jesus Christ in greater peril, having somebody like Kamala Harris and Tim Walz in the
01:37:32: White House our liberties and so on are going to be put in even greater peril, and the safety of our children in greater peril, and so on.
01:37:43: I'm assuming that that's where you're coming from. Yeah, that's the only—and
01:37:49: I'm not trying to bind someone else's conscience at that point, but I do want people to think about whether they are still functioning upon what it was like to vote in the year 2000 in comparison to 2024.
01:38:03: This is not a situation we've faced before. We did sort of face it in 2020. I'm very, very concerned about election irregularities and things like that, but we have not faced this type of fundamental repudiation of the
01:38:22: Constitution, fundamental repudiation of the Christian worldview that gave rise to our liberties and things like that.
01:38:29: We've never faced anything like that, like we're facing right now. And so to go, well, if we keep voting for the
01:38:38: Republicans, they'll just keep going that direction. That's not the point. Honestly, you're assuming that there are going to be three elections down the road where they learn their lesson and come back.
01:38:52: You keep going this direction, and there won't be three elections down the road to be worried about. And that's my concern, is that a lot of people are still looking back and going, ah, this is just another election.
01:39:02: Well, there's one coming up in 2028, then 2032, and blah, blah, blah, and just don't seem to realize just how radical these people actually are, just how dishonest.
01:39:14: I mean, the amount of lying that I—oh, that's right.
01:39:21: When I was watching the Vuelta a España, I'm a big cycling fan, and so I was watching the
01:39:29: Tour of Spain, and there were zero
01:39:34: Republican advertisements while I was watching that.
01:39:40: The Democrats were all over it. And as I listened to these—I didn't want to listen, but I was forced to listen to these advertisements.
01:39:50: I have finally, a couple of weeks in, said, I have not heard these people say one true word the entire time.
01:39:58: The lies were astonishing. And if these people's lips are moving, they're lying.
01:40:06: And the whole worldview does not have any problem whatsoever, because they don't have an objective foundation for even defining what truth is, first of all.
01:40:17: And so we have to realize that that's where we are right now.
01:40:25: And if you hide your head in the sand going, well, I'll think about it again in 2028,
01:40:30: I'm telling you, it's not going to make any difference. It'll be too late at that point to even worry about it.
01:40:38: So yeah, talk about holding your nose and talk about being very concerned.
01:40:45: When I see people, Trump does have a cult of people around him. I don't think Kamala does.
01:40:52: She's just not that likable. I'm sorry. She's just not. But Trump, look,
01:40:59: I am concerned about some of the people around him and the things, the mixing of Christianity with this weird stuff that's out there.
01:41:09: You bet. Am I promoting that? Not in any way, shape or form. I repudiate it.
01:41:16: And at the same time, I'm also going to say this, that man just walking into the Oval Office again can't fix everything.
01:41:22: He may think he can, but he can't. And I have to wonder if so much damage has already been done, that there's nothing much he can do about it, to be honest with you.
01:41:32: But one other thing that has to be kept in mind, if the Republicans do not capture and hold the
01:41:41: House, well, obviously, they need both houses to get almost anything done, both chambers.
01:41:48: But if the Democrats have the House, he'll be impeached three times in the first week.
01:41:58: The only thing he'll be is a speed bump in the road, because they demonstrated last time, they have no concerns about constitutionality, honesty, integrity, nothing.
01:42:12: They will impeach him for parting his hair on their own side. They did it before.
01:42:18: And they'll keep doing it again. I mean, it should worry all of us to see this lawfare that's been going on, the militarization.
01:42:27: And I've never seen so much projection in my life that I have seen in this election.
01:42:36: Kamala Harris is running around out there going, he's going to weaponize the Department of Justice. Just sitting here going, oh my goodness, how can anyone be taken in by this?
01:42:48: That's exactly what they are doing. How can you not? I am left stuttering, especially to fellow
01:42:58: Christians who can't see it. Yeah, I want to pick up where you left off there, because we have to go to our final break.
01:43:06: But don't go away, folks. We're going to be right back. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.
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01:46:55: 1. As Families Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.
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01:48:19: But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.
01:48:33: Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.
01:48:40: In the film Chariots of Fire, Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt
01:48:45: God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.
01:48:52: I sense that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.
01:48:59: That love starts with the news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a Savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to Him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.
01:49:12: I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the
01:49:19: Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.
01:49:28: That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.
01:49:37: That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word, and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.
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01:50:36: We're now back with Dr. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and you were mentioning the absurdity, the laughable insane absurdity of how people could actually believe that Trump is guilty of something that Kamala Harris is so obviously and probably perhaps even more guilty of doing.
01:51:07: It reminded me of these ads of former Trump voters who have now become
01:51:14: Kamala Harris voters, and this guy says, well, changed my mind about Donald Trump after voting for him.
01:51:21: It was January 6th. He tried to take over our government, and I know that Kamala Harris and the
01:51:27: Democrats would never do that. I mean, are you out of your mind?
01:51:33: I don't even know if this is something that's just scripted for this person who doesn't even believe what he's saying, but I mean, that is laughably insane.
01:51:41: In fact, to a very great degree, they have taken over our government. Yeah, I doubt most of these people believe what they're saying.
01:51:48: They're probably paid actors. A lot of the people showing up at these rallies are paid actors. It's very obvious what they're doing, and anyone who has done almost any reading at all in how communism functioned in the
01:52:03: Eastern Bloc this is straight out of the playbook. It's the same old, same old stuff.
01:52:10: If you've read any Solzhenitsyn at all, basically, you're going, hey, wait a minute.
01:52:16: We've already done this. We've been here, got a t -shirt, and it took us 70 years to get that shirt off our back.
01:52:24: But the projection, I've tried to teach people over the years, because I'm a debater.
01:52:34: I do tricks that the less noble of my opponents will utilize are just on display everywhere.
01:52:48: You could fire up MSNBC for 15 minutes, and I could document for you in those 15 minutes pretty much every logical error of argumentation that would be covered in a meaningfully complete logic class.
01:53:12: Projection is one of the best ways. When you have people who are mentally compromised, what do
01:53:18: I mean by mentally compromised? What do I mean by mentally compromised? If you've read Thomas Sowell, if you read Solzhenitsyn, you already know all this stuff.
01:53:26: But people who, instead of thinking, emote. They think with their emotions.
01:53:34: Individuals like that are easily controlled. You can do that simply through the use of language.
01:53:42: You can make accusations. Those accusations can be absurd. They can be self -contradictory.
01:53:48: It doesn't matter as long as it produces the requested emotional state that you want to produce in your audience.
01:54:00: My wife has a dear friend from back in high school. I knew this friend before I asked
01:54:08: Kelly to marry me. She has become very progressive, even though we all went to the same church.
01:54:15: That church didn't give you much in the way of worldview training. It was just driving me nuts listening to my wife talking about the conversations she was having with someone who claims to be a
01:54:27: Christian and yet has zero discernment in being able to recognize the category errors and the projection and all of the standard stuff that the left is using here.
01:54:43: My point is, the next generations have not been taught to think critically.
01:54:49: They have been taught to confuse emotion with thought. To have any chance of even keeping up, the sad thing is,
01:54:58: Republicans are going to have to do the same thing more and more and more, which leads to a faster collapse and degradation of truth in our society.
01:55:10: Again, I don't know if I'm going to see it. I have a feeling I probably will.
01:55:16: Good enough time to shorten my lifespan anyways. But you put together the economic collapse, the demographic collapse, and the fact that secularism cannot build a culture.
01:55:31: Ask the French for crying out loud. The nation is committing suicide in front of the entire globe as it's watching.
01:55:41: Secularism is a failed experiment because it is asking you to live in God's world in opposition to God's ways.
01:55:49: It cannot function. You bring all of that together, and there is going to be a massive change.
01:55:58: My hope and prayer is, what's going to happen is there is such a huge global collapse and reorientation that the
01:56:13: Spirit of God moves, and the elect are drawn in, and the people of the world look and see.
01:56:22: We'll never do that again. We can't. We are creatures of God. We are not the secular ideal of a highly evolved blob of goo.
01:56:35: We are created by God. We have to live in his ways. And will that be the post -millennial hope?
01:56:45: Who knows? All I know is secularism cannot substantiate, cannot survive.
01:56:55: It's all going to come down. A nation that can't define its borders, can't define what a boy or girl is, but for marriages, that nation will not long exist in God's world.
01:57:04: That's inevitable. So what's going to happen in the process? I'm not a prophet nor a son of a prophet, but one thing is for certain.
01:57:13: We need to be teaching our children, our grandchildren. I'd like to live long enough to get to teach my great -grandchildren, which
01:57:21: I could do. My oldest granddaughter will turn 15 in December, so I've got a shot if I don't do something stupid.
01:57:32: And we need to be teaching them to be prepared to be the ones who will be that salt and light when it is most needed.
01:57:43: Amen. Well, obviously, we've ran out of time and are unable to switch topics.
01:57:49: It's a topic, though, even though I've already addressed this with Tobias Riebenschneider, and I hope that everybody listens to that interview
01:57:59: I did with Tobias on this disturbing new trend that I only recently discovered existed, and that is the rise of antisemitism and admiration of Adolf Hitler amongst professedly
01:58:22: Reformed Christians, feeding into the slander that we have been receiving from some dispensationalist and messianic
01:58:33: Jewish brethren for decades, because they've always accused us of being antisemites and so on, and this just feeds in.
01:58:44: There's going to be reason to be doing some programs in the future. There's stuff going on.
01:58:50: I spent about half an hour on the phone with Tobias while driving yesterday. Things are being written.
01:58:57: Groups are coming together. Yeah, there's going to be developments. Keep your eyes open.
01:59:03: Yes, and I'd love to have you back on the show with Tobias to discuss this further. Well, folks, if you want more information about Dr.
01:59:12: White, you probably already know this, but his website is aomin .org. Thank you so much,
01:59:19: Dr. White, for being such a good friend and for taking valuable time out of your busy schedule to be on Iron Trump and Zion Radio again.
01:59:27: It's been great to be with you. God bless. Hope you're feeling better. And I hope everybody remembers for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater