Craig Twining: UFO's, Trans-Dimensional Beings,The Nephilim, and Writing Science Fiction DMW#259

Dead Men Walking

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00:54

Science fiction writing and is there life on other planets? Let's talk to Craig Twining about it. Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between.

01:05

Broadcasting from an undisclosed location. Dead Men Walking starts now.

01:16

Well, hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast. I'm your host, Craig DeMoore. You can find out more about us at dmwpodcast .com.

01:23

As always, thanks for coming along on the ride. We have Craig Twining in studio with us today. How are you doing, Craig? I am doing well.

01:28

It's good to see you. Good to see you. Good to be here. We're going to talk about some cool stuff, science fiction, life on other planets, writing science fiction.

01:35

But before we do, I want to tell you about a couple of our sponsors that I really need you guys to check out. You know, if you're a church and you have ever thought about having a conference,

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I know all these brothers personally, and we would love it if you patronize them. But now that the business is out of the way, sorry you had to sit through that,

03:24

Craig. Hey, that's all right. That's all right. Usually I preload that, but when it's in studio,

03:30

I kind of like to do it all at the same time. Sure. But man, I'm excited to have you in. So Craig, you've been on second time on the podcast.

03:37

Second time. And I tell you what, I got a lot of good feedback on your first episode because you shared a lot of your testimony.

03:44

And not only did I have random listeners from around the country messaging me, but a lot of people even in our church came up to me and said,

03:51

I didn't know that about Craig. You go to church with them. Our church has grown a lot. It has. And I should say we're members of Christ the

03:57

Word in Sylvania, Ohio. And it's always funny to have someone in church come up and go, I didn't know that about Craig.

04:03

And you go, oh, well, now you know. That's right. So yeah, very well receptive on the first episode.

04:13

But we wanted to talk about something a little different here on this episode, didn't we? Science fiction.

04:18

Yeah, because you're a science fiction author, Mission Eden, which I'm a few chapters into, which I wanted to ask before we get started.

04:25

In the first couple of chapters, the character is written almost in first person. It's written in first person because I couldn't figure out a way to try to make you anticipate what was coming next.

04:39

I was trying to make it so that you were going through the experience as the protagonist was.

04:46

Yes. Yeah, because I noticed that because I've read a few books where it's first person, most probably fiction books.

04:53

Is it called third person if it's kind of written from, what is it called when there's a narrator? Yeah, there's actually a couple, like an omnipresent third person.

05:01

There's several different ways you could go about it. And I actually, when I started writing this book,

05:06

I tried it from a couple of different perspectives and I just could not get it. And it just turned out that the first person present was the way to go, which is kind of,

05:18

I think maybe Hunger Games was written that way. So there's been a number of books lately that have been written like that.

05:26

Okay. So it was just kind of like a personal choice, easier for you to write that way. Yes. Easier. Where'd you get the idea from for Mission Eden?

05:32

And where can people get this book too? They can get it on Amazon. It's just a self -published book, but it's on Amazon.

05:38

Just look up Mission Eden by Craig Twining and it'll show up. I had the idea actually for quite a while, probably even 20 years.

05:49

I always had this thought about what would it be like if a spaceship from earth actually made it to a planet where it was truly perfect?

06:04

I mean, truly perfect, where people were sinless. How in the world would that be able to take place?

06:14

And the thoughts just kept rolling around in my mind and I never really did anything with it.

06:19

I just thought, oh, that's an interesting idea. Well, then of course you've had my cousin,

06:25

Carrie Neitzan, who is a speculative fiction, sci -fi, Christian author.

06:31

And I was talking with him and he said, well, just write it. And so it was a process.

06:38

It took me probably a couple of years because I had that basic premise. And then it's like, okay, well, how do you get to that point?

06:47

And then how would that work?

06:53

Trying to keep the biblical perspective in mind, things like that wickedness can't dwell with righteousness.

07:00

I mean, if there truly was a perfect society, how could you do that? And just the different ramifications.

07:08

And then how do you end the story? There was just a lot of things going on. I'd get writer's block at some point and drop it.

07:17

But then I finally pushed through it and got it. And I was happy with the results.

07:24

Yeah. I kind of saw some of those overtones. I just re -listened to C .S.

07:29

Lewis's Space Trilogy a couple of months ago. And there was kind of some, it's not the same premise by far, but it was kind of some hints of when he gets to the planet in the first and second book, they're kind of hinting towards, oh, well, we don't do that like humans do.

07:45

And you know what I mean? There's some of that, like, yeah, in a different world, you can kind of explore what would it be like, like you said, to either be in a perfect world or sinless world.

07:55

And it's very interesting. So yeah, so it took a couple of years then or more than a couple of years.

08:00

From idea to publishing. I always like to know this. It was probably a good two years, two to two and a half years.

08:11

And I was my own editor, you know, so I would sit there and read it and I was like, oh,

08:17

I've got to change this. And so I probably edited myself probably 20 times. And then I had other people read the book.

08:24

And I still remember after getting my author copy and sending it to people that they'd point out, oh, did you know you did this?

08:32

Be like, I thought this thing was done already, you know? And so, but yeah, the copy you have there and it's been finalized now for a few years.

08:42

Yeah, people don't realize how hard it is to write a good book. And it's a good book. It reads very easily too.

08:47

Had you ever had any past authorship experience or did you like like English or grammar in high school or college or like, where'd it come from to write a book?

08:55

I think probably from the, just reading myself, from personal reading.

09:01

So when I was in high school, I did not read the, basically the books you were supposed to read in high school.

09:07

I mean, you know, you had these English classes and, you know, I really didn't get into them, but actually 10 years or so out of high school,

09:17

I thought, you know, I probably missed something by not going back and reading these books. And I actually, you know,

09:23

I mean, it was like reading people like Charles Dickens, you know, phenomenal author. And then, but then started, well, what about science fiction?

09:31

What, what are some really good books that are out there? And I think the first one

09:37

I picked up was Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, which just blew me away.

09:44

Short book, but very interesting. Some of the things that he kind of maybe predicted or foresaw that we, that are actually in place now, you know, that really kind of influenced my writing.

09:59

I really enjoy his style of writing. Yeah. So wait, so in high school, you said you were reading, but not necessarily science fiction or the classics or you weren't?

10:06

I really wasn't reading much at all. Oh, not much at all. It was like after high school. Yeah. See, I was more like, so I grew up reading a lot of and my mom and dad read, well, mostly my mom read to us in homeschooling and things like that and got us introduced to like abridged versions of the classics, which then interest you in the, in the full version.

10:24

And then sometimes you're disappointed when you're like, oh man, the full version is a lot better. I should have read that first. And, you know, but as a third grader, it's really hard to read the original

10:33

Pinocchio or Robin Hood. I think sometimes it's, it's a tough read. Oh yeah, sure. But, but then in high school,

10:39

I was more like a, like, I loved reference stuff. I love stuff. I love quotes, reference.

10:44

It's almost like, if you could get me information in like tight little packets, that's what I gravitated towards, but I was still reading fiction, nonfiction.

10:52

You know, I always say I did my senior thesis on the buying of Congress. It was a book this big. And my teacher went, why are you, why that one?

10:58

Can you just do it on like the smashing pumpkins or something that every, every other 12th grade kid, their favorite band or something?

11:04

Sure. But I found that topic very interesting. Like the fourth arm with the media and lobbyists and all that stuff.

11:11

And it was kind of an underbelly and then really got into fiction probably after high school, like twenties was where I started exploring fiction.

11:18

So I've always been a science fiction fan. Now, actually in high school, I did end up reading

11:23

Dune, which just blew me away. But it took me probably three or four times before I could, you know,

11:31

I'd read through a few pages and it's like, I just don't get this. And then you figure out he's just laid out this completely original world or worlds,

11:44

I should say. And this, this whole, I mean, it was everything. It was the political background.

11:50

It was the economic, you know, it was everything. And then it just took my brain, I guess, a while to figure out what was going on.

11:57

And once I did, it just opened that whole book up. And I, it was just a page turner for me.

12:02

Probably the biggest thing for the science fiction genre for me wasn't a book. It was, so I was born in 81.

12:10

So Star Trek, the next generation premiered in 87 to like 93. So I was right in that 10 to like 14 year old range where I would go to my grandmother's, my uncle, who's a few years older than me was still living at home.

12:24

And he, and they had a, my grandpa was one of the first people to have one of these little big dishes where you could get satellite.

12:31

And I mean, it was like, you had to put a motor on it and turn it was nine foot across in his yard.

12:37

And they would get Star Trek and tape it on VHS. And then I would watch it over there with him stay up late, you know, till 12, one in the morning, watching three, four episodes in a row.

12:46

And then from there going, he goes, you know, and I go, is this the only series? He goes, no, there's another series kind of before your time, you know?

12:53

So then we went back and watched TOS, the original series. That's what I grew up on. Then right into that, got hooked into DS9, which was the next one, right?

13:00

So Star Trek was really my first foray into, oh wow, this whole genre of science fiction, not necessarily a book, but a series.

13:08

And then also really liking the idea of like an optimistic future. I'm not really, I'll watch a dystopian kind of, you know, right now

13:15

I'm watching, what is it on Apple TV? Silo. So it's kind of more dystopian.

13:22

Yeah. They're all living in a huge, you know, 10 ,000 people in a silo and there's radioactive stuff outside. No one goes outside, but are they being lied to?

13:29

Is it really okay to go outside on earth? And so it's more dystopian, but I really liked the optimistic part of what

13:35

Star Trek, even the original and the, you know, in the subsequent series kind of presented.

13:41

So I grew up on the original series and it was, so my,

13:47

I don't know, my like, and my fascination with science fiction was actually twofold.

13:56

So when I was five years old, the Apollo 11 mission happened. Yeah. It was the same time that Star Trek was actually probably just going off the air, but it was, had been picked up in syndication.

14:09

But, you know, I would watch how the reruns and then when Apollo 11 happened, that was the only television that my mom, she actually sat me down.

14:18

I was five years old and she said, you need to watch this. That was the only television that I was ever told

14:24

I had to watch. And to see a man from earth actually walking on the moon was just fascinating.

14:35

And then it just, that coupled with Star Trek, you know, it just opened up that possibility in my mind, the imagination that, you know, mankind could travel to other planets.

14:48

And there were, you know, multiple civilizations out there. It was fascinating.

14:53

You know, when you think about all of the things that technology -wise that Star Trek introduced that have actually kind of come to reality at some point, it almost makes you wonder,

15:05

I've heard that Gene Roddenberry, the creator, was in the military. And I always wondered, like, what did he see in the military that, you know, he kind of put the little egg,

15:18

Easter egg out there in Star Trek, just to say, you know, guys are working on stuff like this. Well, they had technical advisors that worked high up in the government,

15:25

CIA and some other NASA would advise on those shows. You know, and we've seen a lot of the little trinkets from the 80s now become everyday life, iPads and things like that.

15:35

And they're working on a hypo spray right now to where you won't have to pierce the skin with a needle. You can...

15:40

Right. Yeah. You know, they came up with a cloaking device. Are you kidding? You know, that stuff was just, you know...

15:47

All right. So from a young age, it was like you were into space travel, because I know, I mean, you got like telescopes and, you know, all that stuff and constellations.

15:56

You're always looking out into the stars. So there was kind of a little bit of an obsession, even as a young kid and then into teens and adults.

16:03

Yes. And my parents, you know, they encouraged it. You know, my dad bought me a model rocket and we would shoot that off in the...

16:14

You know, they would let me stay up if there was like a lunar eclipse and, you know, and watch it. They were just, they were very supportive.

16:21

Yeah. You know, what's crazy when I go back and watch Next Generation is how the subliminal social issues went like right over my head.

16:29

Yeah. You know what I mean? Because if you look at it... There was a lot of them. It's very liberal, kind of the stuff they're pushing. I mean, they were dealing with same -sex stuff.

16:36

They were dealing with abortion. They were dealing with cloning, all these like weird ethical questions. And usually they took the liberal side of it when

16:44

I go back and watch it. But at the same time, it was very entertaining just to watch that and go, what could be possible?

16:51

Yes. And then even, you know, my brother has always been really into life on other planets, kind of the spiritual side of like Bigfoot.

17:01

Is he real? Is it spiritual? Like, you know, trans -dimensional stuff and aliens and what are

17:07

UFOs and these unidentified... Well, we call them something else now, right? U -P -I? U -A -Rs? U -P -Is?

17:13

U -P -U... Unidentified aerial UAPs. UAPs. That's what it is. That's what we're supposed to call them now.

17:19

That kind of stuff's always been interesting to me. But the biggest one, which I really think everyone's talking about the last two, three years is like life on other planets.

17:30

I mean, think about the last two years of just like press releases and the government talking about stuff. Obviously, social media is always talking about it.

17:37

But we've been getting briefed on all kinds of weird stuff, almost like they're trying to prepare, I wouldn't even say the country, but even the world population for some type of reveal.

17:47

Right. And then I've always said, even as a young kid and thinking about it, like, how does life on other planets align with my biblical worldview and things like that?

17:57

Like, what are your thoughts on that? Have you ever, I mean, if you're obsessed with that kind of stuff, you know, science fiction and stuff like that, we're both believers.

18:04

Like, where do you land on that? What do you think? Well, so it's interesting. So you're right. I mean, the last few years, it seems like every astronomical discovery, you know, hey, we found this planet orbiting such and such star, and we believe that it has water, you know, and, you know, if you were to ask the scientific community, any planet out there discovered or whatever that might have water would be the, you know, have the building blocks for life, you know, and, you know, and then you read or hear, you know, these things about things going up in the

18:40

Antarctic or the, you know, in the Arctic that there's, you know, weird phenomena that's happening up there and people taking these trips up there.

18:49

And, but it's interesting, you know, having written a sci -fi book that the more

18:58

I study scripture, the more I don't think humanoid life, humanoid alien life exists on another planet.

19:09

Yeah. And I base that on several things. First of all, in the

19:15

Genesis account and in Genesis 1, when God creates the heavens and the earth, that's it.

19:22

It's the heavens and it's the earth. There's two categories, one and then the other. And so, you know, if you look at the seven or the six day creation timeframe and when

19:35

God resting on the seventh, but if you look at that, there's really only one day, the fourth day that God creates the sun, moon, and the stars.

19:44

Yeah. And what are they created for? They're created for the earth. Everything that God created was for the benefit of the earth.

19:52

You know, every other day deals with life on the earth. And so, and there are other difficulties from a scriptural standpoint, if there were life on other planets.

20:09

So, we would agree that the fall, Adam's fall was universal, that it affected the entire universe.

20:19

So, if you could imagine that there was life on another planet and it was going along perfectly fine, and then all of a sudden,

20:29

Adam falls on this planet. Right. What happens? Well, then it should have a universal effect.

20:38

So, you can imagine, you know, an alien walking around and all of a sudden, bloop, he gets this murderous impulse to go kill his fellow alien.

20:46

He's like, where did that come from? Right. You know, I mean, because up until that time, it would have been perfect.

20:51

Yeah. But then, Adam's fall, and, you know, and so then you also have to think, if that's the case, if Adam's sin then affected the entire universe, and if there were other beings out there, then what would

21:10

Christ's sacrifice do for them? Christ had, Hebrews tells us, that Christ had to be made like his brothers.

21:17

Sure. So, he was made like us. He wasn't made like, you know, a being that would encompass multiple civilizations.

21:27

He had to be made human. You know, he wasn't made Vulcan, or he wasn't made human, and then he had to be made

21:33

Vulcan, and then he had to be made Romulan, and then he had to be made Klingon. It was human and human only. So, that would also limit, you know, the human race to those who were being saved.

21:46

If there were other populations out there of alien beings, by logic, then they would be condemned to hell.

21:56

I kind of feel like there is a big push by the secular community to want to have some type of other life out there, because they're always framing things like, oh, there could have been water there.

22:08

We think there's water there. It's like, we have not discovered in the little very section, little parts of the universe that we've even looked, we haven't discovered water anywhere.

22:16

No. It's just a bunch of theories. Well, I think Mars had water at one time. Really? I mean, we can't even go back to the moon, because supposedly you can't get through the

22:24

Van Allen radiation belt. Like, you know what I mean? You went to the moon on the Game Boy technology, now you're going to tell me you know what happened 10 billion years ago on Mars, right?

22:32

Exactly. But also, so they're always pushing towards that, and then I saw, I can't remember the guy's name, but he was talking about, and he's a secular physicist, but he said, just the mere numbers of if we truly believe the earth is 14 billion, or the universe is 14 billion years old, and I would dispute that number.

22:51

But going off what he's saying, he's saying we should have had someone here by now. Just if there was intelligent life out there, it's the time travel problem, right?

23:02

That's why they think you can't travel back in time, because someone would have at some point, because you have an infinite future.

23:08

So if you can travel back in time, we should have, you know, you could pick any time to travel back to, we should have seen that by now.

23:15

And he was saying that there couldn't be other life just because of the sheer numbers of, there's so many planets and galaxies, you know, times the time that it takes, we should have seen something.

23:27

Something by now. You know, and we can't rely on us looking, you know, I think someone said, I heard an example, and this kind of puts it into perspective.

23:35

If the observable universe was the oceans on earth, just think of all the water, how deep it is, miles and miles deep out, you know, trillions of gallons.

23:45

If that represented the seeable universe, we've looked at about a hot tub.

23:51

We've taken out a hot tub and put it on land, and that's what we've looked at in the universe.

23:57

So I'm not saying it's not a big, big place, but it's also really, you ever think about like how they say the universe is still expanding?

24:05

You go, well, what the heck's on the other side of the universe? What's on the other side of nothing? What does it mean when the

24:11

Bible says that God stretched out the heavens? It seems like they are still being stretched. Yeah. You know, it's very interesting.

24:18

I talked to Dr. Hugh Ross, who is, he's old earth, but he's not evolutionary.

24:24

He believes in a six day creation, but he thinks each day was about a billion and a half years. He had a very interesting perspective on that too, that basically the six days of God working is him being active in the universe, in reality.

24:42

And then the seventh day resting is we're in the seventh day right now, and that's him putting all natural law, physics, thermodynamics in motion and going, okay,

24:51

I've created this reality. Now it runs like a finely tuned clock. It was just a fun thought experiment. So I would,

24:57

I would, I actually disagree with Hugh Ross. I think that the, my opinion is that the literal six day creation is the way to take it because I think that's the way the

25:08

Bible actually puts it. You know, even when God gives the 10 commandments to the Israelites, he said, you will rest on the sixth day because on the sixth day,

25:16

God rested on the seventh day. I agree with you. But, you know, yeah, if you think it's just, it's just a very,

25:26

I know a lot of people have a lot of different, you know, opinions out there. But I do think from a scriptural perspective that that probably holds the most water.

25:37

And quite honestly, you know, God didn't need even six days to do it. He could have done it in six seconds if he wanted to.

25:47

But, yeah, you know, I mean, you also have the, you know, like, well, how can we see things from, you know, that are billions of light years away, you know, but, you know, creation science does a pretty good job of even answering those questions.

26:04

Yeah. So, so what happens if we get some report or we, so we sit, so I think you and I both agree.

26:11

I don't think either that there's some type of humanoid, you know, carbon -based life out there.

26:18

Could there be like an algae or, what'd you call it earlier? Micro, like a microorganism?

26:24

Oh, like microbial? Microbial? Possibly. Possibly. Now. What do you think? Well, okay.

26:29

So here's what's interesting. Just because I don't believe necessarily that there's humanoid life doesn't mean

26:36

I don't believe there aren't other beings, heavenly beings.

26:42

So we know from scripture that Satan is the prince of the power of the air. Sure. And we know that there are spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

26:51

So how does that play out? You know, what? Well, I mean, it's within our biblical canon that angels came to earth and we had half angel, half man.

27:00

We had all these weird things going on pre -flood. You know, you look at the Nephilim in Genesis 6 and it's like,

27:06

I know that there are some camps that holds that they were, I'm trying to remember, is it the sons of Cain and the daughters of Seth?

27:17

Like they, it's human, but there are, to me, and this is, again, this is personal opinion.

27:23

I don't think that answers a number of the, there are some difficulties with holding to that view.

27:30

First of all, in Genesis 6, it says that the Nephilim were on the earth. And then it says, and after, well, after what?

27:37

It's after the flood. So if the flood wiped out all of humanity, there has to be something else.

27:44

Something carried over maybe in a DNA lineage or something? I, who knows, but you know, we know that there were giants.

27:51

I mean. That's the one I'm most convinced of. Probably the conspiracy theory that I'm most convinced of is we have so much evidence of giants.

28:00

Yes. You know, the Smithsonian has bought up about 15 or 20 skeletons that are over 12 foot long, and they lock them up in Iowa and they don't let anyone see them.

28:10

They found three in Ohio. I mean, huge skeletons, like full bone, 12 to 14 foot.

28:16

And those are some of the smaller ones. And then if you go back on like, like hieroglyphics and like in cave walls in the

28:22

Middle East and parts of Africa, I mean, they've got guys holding lions. Yes. Like cats, pets, all kinds of weird stuff.

28:30

Like Nimrod is, is, uh, is part of Mesopotamia's like wall writings and stuff.

28:35

And they're like, Oh, he was about 80 foot tall. He needed this. You go, okay. So what are these guys just making stuff up there?

28:41

They were, they're not in the way of like idol worship or like, um, you know, making it a

28:46

God. It's like, no, it's just recording history. This is, this is what it was. And you go, what the heck is that all about? Exactly.

28:51

You got an 80 foot guy walking around. And then you, my brain really starts going on. I'm like, maybe they had something to do with those pyramids or something.

28:57

I don't know. Like, that's a good way to move tons and tons of rock when you got a huge guy that can do it or a couple of them.

29:05

You know, and it's funny because, uh, you know, I enjoy listening to some of the haunted cosmos episodes and those guys do a pretty good job of, you know, researching the things that they, that they do.

29:18

I mean, they really put a lot of time and effort into it and they had something on recently.

29:24

It had, it was a pyramids and I wish I could remember. Oh, it was, it was some structure. Yeah. And, uh, but you, you know, you think about that and, and like, how did some of these structures get built on earth with the so -called, uh, you know, if, if you look at the technology that we were supposedly had, like how in the world did these things get done?

29:48

And, you know, we know, what is it in South America that there are, um, these areas of land that actually seen from the air, you know, have huge depictions of animals and insects on them.

30:03

Oh, really? You know, um, in the Amazon rainforest or? It's in South America somewhere.

30:09

Um, but yeah, if you were to fly over aerial, there's like a, a, um, this land that's carved out that it looks like a spider.

30:17

Okay. I mean, I mean, it truly is a picture, but you have to be from up there. From far up to see it.

30:23

It's like, who was up in the air back then? Exactly. We didn't have planes. We didn't have this technology, right?

30:29

But yeah, there's a lot of fascinating things. So the only reason I brought that up is cause that, that's kind of where my brain is with like life on other planets too.

30:38

I don't know if there's humanoid life and you start talking about this, but then you say, that doesn't mean there couldn't be other beings.

30:44

Well, I think I know what you're saying, but explain to me what you say by there could be other beings.

30:50

Are you saying angelic beings, like spiritual transdimensional? What are your thoughts on, and this is all just opinion, but yeah, it's, it's opinion.

30:58

Um, I, my opinion is that they are, um, demonic, uh, beings that they're demonic for one thing.

31:08

Um, so wait, when you say beings, how are we defining beings? Are we saying spiritual? Do they have a physical body? So if they are fallen angels, if they are demonic, they must be at least humanoid in appearance,

31:22

I would think. Um, we don't know. The funny thing is we don't know what angels look like, right?

31:29

We, but when, um, well, Ezekiel tells us a little bit and it's not what

31:34

Michelangelo painted. They're terrifying looking. So you've got what Ezekiel has, but then you also have, you know, in the book of acts, it's funny when, um, the angel wraps on Peter, he's in the jail and he tells him, get up and get out.

31:49

And the door is open. And then he goes to, um, is it wrote his house or something? He knocks on the door and the servant girl is like, she's overjoyed.

31:57

And she runs back and says, Peter's here. And they all tell her, well, it must be his angel. So there must be some kind of humanoid appearance that people know.

32:07

So you know, also too, in that story, what I always pick up on is notice how the angel helps them manipulate time and space.

32:15

Exactly. No one wakes up, walk through the bars and the jail, right? Like there's this weird thing. Cause I have a theory too, where, uh, you know, for Christ, he did miracles, but for him, it was just natural.

32:24

Like if you are the creator of this reality, it's very easy to walk through a wall. I mean, heck we can put particles through walls right now.

32:32

And we've transported a particle of an Adam, Adam, 80 feet. So we're in the infancy of trying to become godlike, right?

32:38

That's what technology is really trying to do. But on top of that, you look at things like angels and Christ and you go, yeah, if you're the creator of this reality, creator of the physics of how it works, creator of, of, uh, you know, of all these laws of nature.

32:51

Yeah. It wouldn't be too hard to be able to go, you know, maybe there's a variant shift in, in the way, you know, with your molecules to be able to walk through solids and things like that.

33:01

Right. It was just natural for God. You sit there and you think, how is it that an angel can appear right.

33:07

And then disappear. Yeah. You know, and yet, you know, you have accounts of angels, uh, you know, when, uh, the angels approached, you know, and I think the

33:17

Lord God was with them when they approached Abraham and Abraham says, you know, well, here, let me make you some food.

33:24

And then it says, okay. So the, the natural assumption is, is they ate, sure. You know, and we know Jesus ate in his glorified body.

33:32

So I don't know what you would call that inter -dimensional or some way there's an ability,

33:39

I guess, to take, I think that's just a, that's a, it's something we don't know. That's a popular phrase that people are using a lot now.

33:45

I mean, years ago, we would just call it spiritual, but I think there has to be some type of crossover from the spiritual to the physical.

33:53

I don't know if it's a physical opening or portal, but we obviously understand. And I think it's biblical that the spiritual, although, although we are spirit and, and physical, but the spiritual to come into the physical, they're, they're crossing something over.

34:08

Right. I can't just send a rocket ship up. And if I go high enough, I eventually get to heaven. You know what

34:14

I mean? You know, and that's not to say the word heavens in Genesis isn't talking about the heaven we think about.

34:21

Um, I would say that, you know, something spiritual is outside of our, our probably four dimensional space.

34:28

You mean the quanting mechanics? What was that chip that Google just came out with?

34:33

And they said, Oh, we'd all these quantum computing experiments. And I think we were in like the eighth parallel universe by the, you know, they, and you go, what?

34:41

And it just blows your mind. Yes. But we've, we're at this weird place in time too, to where technology is getting to a spot to where, and this is where I think part of my end times eschatology and just the human race in general, we are going to start putting our trust more and more in that technology and go, well, the quantum computer said,

35:00

Hey, I found, uh, we see this thing flying or we see with our eyes and on video, we see this thing flying around and disappearing.

35:06

Oh, well the Bible isn't true or the Bible takes second seat to that.

35:11

And I would just say so far, the Bible has a 100 % track record of proving science, right.

35:16

And I could do it for 50 different things. One of my favorite is in Job 38, when God asked

35:21

Job, you know, did you see the, did you go down to the deeps of the ocean and see the, you know, the springs? Did you put them there?

35:27

Yeah. Cause and atheists and secularists love making fun of, uh, scientists that believe that for years.

35:32

What are you talking about? There's no freshwater Springs at the bottom of the ocean. One's freshwater, one saltwater. Well, they send down an unmanned, you know, probe seventies.

35:41

And then like early 83, they went, Holy cow, there's all these freshwater rivers at the bottom of the ocean.

35:46

And somehow the saltwater and the freshwater does not mix. It empties out. And one half of the cave is producing freshwater and the other half saltwater.

35:55

They can't figure it out. You go, Oh, well, God told Job about it. 6 ,000 years ago, whatever it was.

36:00

I mean, a long time ago, Job's one of the, probably the oldest book in the Bible, but there's these things fact after fact, after fact, even when you start talking about like, like, um, we're talking about Adams and what can be seen and not seen.

36:12

And Paul talking about faith, this thing's hope not seen. And there's life in the blood and you go, yeah,

36:17

I know he's talking about the, the atonement of blood, but then now we've figured out there's so many things in your blood.

36:24

That's right. Uh, that lit that, that, that just, it's just crazy. Or God saying, you know, sins are passed down to the third and fourth generation from father to father.

36:33

And they just found when they finished the genome in the late nineties, they found, Oh, there's a stump in our

36:38

DNA and it's called, they just named it junk DNA. We don't know what it does. Yes. We'll come to find out 2005 or six, whatever it was, 10 years after they finished the genome, they're doing some studies and they go,

36:48

Oh, that holds all of alcoholism, disease, uh, disformities in it.

36:54

And that junk DNA drops after the fourth generation. And you go, huh? So he's saying there's sins that are passed down to the third and fourth generation.

37:03

And now we've got this junk DNA that, that essentially, I don't want to say passes down to sin, but it's a deformity or it's an alcohol.

37:10

It's like these propensities and it drops off at the third or fourth generation. I don't know if that's a coincidence. Um, so I look at the

37:17

Bible and I go, I think I can find things in the Bible too, that if there, if it were to come out,

37:22

Oh, we've got this five years ago, he got the Pope saying we'd baptize aliens if they came to earth. That's insane.

37:28

Right? Like why is the Pope talking like that? Right. Makes you think so. Yeah. When, why would he say that? Yeah. My point is though,

37:34

I think there's things in the Bible from a principle, right? We're not going to go to the Bible and see, Oh, there's, you know, aliens will come to earth in 2050.

37:40

Right. But I think there's things in the Bible that would show that they are spiritual and that we're fighting some type of spiritual battle with them.

37:49

Most definitely. Yeah. Is that kind of where you land on it? That is pretty much where I land on it.

37:54

And it wouldn't surprise me that, you know, going back to what you were talking about, um, the things that we've been hearing about, about life on other planets, we've also seemed to have a resurgence in the number of these

38:08

UAP sightings. Um, you know, the, these jets that are tracking these things and, you know, they're going phenomenal speeds and they're just doing these aerobatic tricks that, you know, and then they're gone.

38:25

I mean, they just, and you think, well, you know, we know the military holds onto its secrets pretty well, but you know, what else is out there?

38:35

You know, I think it's twofold. I think one, it's a good cover story to say if you're an ultra top secret and there's a level above the president above the executive too.

38:45

Um, and I think I saw, who was that? Was that Gerald Ford? He just passed away, but it was one of the ex presidents.

38:51

Maybe it was Bush or Gerald Ford. One of them that basically said, you know, how does it feel to be the most powerful man on earth?

38:58

And he goes, and he was the president of time. He goes, I don't know. I got to go ask him, you know, there's even things that the president isn't allowed to know.

39:04

And you go, huh? That's seems weird. Um, but my whole point, what were we just talking about? I lost my train of thought.

39:10

I think one, if you, if you're super secret elite part of any government, it's a great cover story to go.

39:16

Yeah. They're not ours. And I don't know, maybe it's from another, right? So it could be that. So that allows you to keep operating without them going.

39:23

Yeah, it's us. You got us. And we're working on this great technology. You allow other countries to go,

39:28

Oh, maybe it isn't them. But at the same time, uh, I don't know. You go back to like biblical history.

39:35

You go back to Jewish history, the Samaritans, uh, uh, all these old ancient, uh, uh, societies.

39:43

And they talk about tech technological stuff going on. That seems very similar.

39:48

Like you said, why do we have things that we can see that only can be seen from a thousand feet or a thousand miles in the air?

39:55

Right. What was, you know, so I don't know. I see, I see technology, uh, at the beginning of civilization.

40:03

And now I think it's a distraction to become more Godlike. That's, that's the ultimate. I totally agree.

40:09

You know, and, you know, if you think, you know, um, that, you know, people look at the, you know, thousands of years ago and, and, you know, they're just how, um, crude and basic scientists or anthropologists think that tools are.

40:29

And yet that doesn't explain how we get some of the structures that we have.

40:35

You just have to look at it and go, there's, there's no way. And, you know, so did these beings or whatever, did they have enough of a knowledge that they gave man a, a, a technology that, you know, uh, helped him to do these things, you know?

40:55

And if you look at it, um, so the structures like the pyramids and these other things, the

41:00

Machu Picchu and, um, you know, down in South America, you know, these fantastic structures were created.

41:07

What were they created for? Most of it seems to be for the worship of something other than God.

41:13

It's a, you know, it's a, um, you know, a demonic worship is what it is.

41:19

That's what they were created for. And so you wonder, it's like, did these beings, did these demons give them the technology to do this because they wanted to be worshiped?

41:30

That's what I think too. Uh, but what, so this is what I don't get from, from a Bible standpoint.

41:35

What do you think about this? Um, so you had, let's say, so you had Nephilim and you had, uh, these types pre -flood, right?

41:43

And they were coming down. Angels were entering into, I think I messed up my microphone here. Oh, well, they were coming into the physical world, dwelling among men, right?

41:52

Then we have the flood. We have some of it survive. It's seemingly, it seems maybe through DNA. We don't know when, why, what changed do you think biblically to where there wasn't any more visitations from, let's say, demonic forces or spiritual forces or something like that.

42:08

Cause I kind of look at it and I go pre -flood, it looked like there was an open invitation. It looked like both angel and demons kind of freely coming to and fro.

42:16

We see some stuff at Babel where they're saying, let us be like a God, which there's a lot of, um, the theology of the, of, of, uh, the council is there where we weren't just building a tall structure.

42:27

We actually wanted to seat at the council along with angels and demons and Yahweh God being the one true

42:33

God that, uh, proclaimed and sovereignly ruled over everything. We went, Hey, us as humans want to be there too. And we had some either, uh, fallen, fallen angels or demons helping with that.

42:42

So what changed do you think biblically to where we don't see those visitation or did they just get less?

42:48

And maybe that's what we're seeing in these like alien sightings and stuff. Maybe it is still, you know what I mean? Like a fallen angel or a demon trying to poke its way through and go,

42:56

Hey, I want to interfere in this reality. You do. It is curious. Um, you know, so we have men like Goliath and David's time.

43:06

And if you read through, um, uh, first Kings, you know, there are other giants or very large men at that time, but it seems like the closer you get to the time of Christ, those start diminishing.

43:23

And by the time, you know, Christ, uh, his incarnation happens, you know, and he starts his ministry, what does he start doing right away is casting them out.

43:35

Yeah. And so is that the entire answer? I don't know, but it does seem that as, as he, his time approaches that the, this influence, as you will, from these other beings seems to lessen.

43:50

That would make sense because sometimes I think as Christians too, we, um, we look at like the, the ministry death and resurrection of Christ.

44:00

Yes. We look at it. So vifically and atonement and a redemptive plan, but I also think it shifted a lot more things in history too.

44:08

Like I was just, who was I just talking to? Um, oh, I was on a Parker Brown's watch while podcast, I was talking to Cody Fields about this too.

44:14

Like, it's pretty crazy. If you think about it, uh, that Christ comes to earth, dies, resurrected

44:21

Jerusalem, destroyed animal sacrifices, stop all within 50 years of each other. Yes.

44:26

I mean, that is a huge shift in history, animal sacrifice by almost every major religion up until Christ dies in raises again.

44:35

Uh, the temple for the Jews is destroyed in 70 AD and then animal sacrifice stops in really no brought now there's certain sects of religions that still do animal sacrifice, but I'm saying that was the norm, right?

44:47

So Christ changed something on earth in the physical, the spiritual to where we changed even the way that they sacrifice.

44:55

Now, I still think we have child sacrifice to this day. We do it through abortion and, and other things.

45:01

Uh, but my point being is the religious way to do that almost stopped in an instant.

45:06

And you go, well, that's, you know, that lends me to my kind of amillennialism eschatology as well, too.

45:12

Like I think there was a bigger thing there than Christ just dying and again, which is the biggest thing, but it also, it, it initiated maybe some type of temperament on Satan and his, and his, his, uh, ability to be able to rule, uh, demonic oppression went down for years and years and years and centuries.

45:32

Uh, yeah, we had witch trials. We had this little spouts of stuff, but it was very prevalent. Like if you look at ancient texts, it was like every other guy had some type of, uh, you know, possession or he was nuts or crazy.

45:44

The atheist will go, Oh, that was just mental illness. And they weren't classifying it. Right. I'm like, I don't,

45:49

I don't think so. I think maybe some of it was, but you had like demonic oppression being talked about openly in ancient civilizations, you know, and then it seems to cease for quite a long time when

45:59

Christ comes. Well, and it's, you know, when we look at it, you know, Christ's death and resurrection, he rose victorious and, you know, it was, yes, it was a victory over sin and death, but it was also victory over Satan, you know, his, his minions, you know what

46:20

I mean? It's a complete victory. And yeah, there's probably, you know, you, yeah, it's a, that's a hard thing to try to, um,

46:34

I don't know, encapsulate as to what all that victory. I'm just saying we are going to be hard pressed as Christians to going forward, especially with the news jumping on board, a lot of your conspiracy guys, a lot of your alternative media.

46:47

I mean, they're wanting some type of spiritual being or alien or something like that.

46:52

And then I always wonder, I wonder if that's going to be part of like a great falling away to where people, uh, maybe they see something that convinces their eyes, their ears, right?

47:01

Their senses. And they go, oh, this, this has got to be real. So everything the Bible said is a lie.

47:07

We're not the old, we're not the only ones in the universe. Like the, the secularist loves that idea of us not being the apple of God's eye.

47:15

Right. And that's, you know, so if we go back to science fiction for a second, that's one of the things, you know, there are some things that science fiction gets right.

47:24

And there are some things that science fiction gets wrong. One of the big things they get wrong is that man isn't special.

47:32

You know, man is actually a lot of times portrayed as a more primitive species and that these other beings are, are greater and more advanced.

47:42

Um, you know, so that would be, you know, if there were, if, if somehow an alien ship landed, that would just give, you know, all kinds of ammunition to, you know, an evolutionary opinion that we'll see, we aren't special.

48:07

You have intelligence and, you know, so I think that's a very, um, you know,

48:14

I, I have a tendency to kind of lean that way, or at least wonder if something like that isn't going to happen.

48:21

So my thought is if you, let's say you see something like that and I don't know, it looks like an out of this world spaceship or, you know, some type of craft, uh, or some type of humanoid looking being that looks out, you know, out of this, uh, world.

48:37

Then I go, okay. So if it's the same type of spiritual beings that we're talking about, that was pre -flood, why did they present themselves that way pre -flood?

48:47

And why would they present themselves this way post -flood? Why? My point is, is, was there alien ships flying around, you know, six, eight, 10 ,000 years ago or no, or was it just, they were giant.

49:02

They had special knowledge. They, you know, uh, because there's a, there's a quote by Tertullian and it's, and it's kind of like this.

49:08

And he says, demons, uh, which are rulers of this air with the adversary, demons can't, uh, look into the future.

49:16

They don't, they're one they're in that only God can do that, but they can, he goes, but they can fly up to great heights and see a storm coming from miles off and then fly down and then predict that future to you.

49:27

Oh, there's gonna be a storm tomorrow. And he goes, do they know anything special? No, they just have a different perspective being spiritual. And this was being talked about in the first century, right.

49:34

By a Christian apologist. And you go, huh. So yeah, if you, if you're spiritual in nature and you're not limited to physical,

49:41

I could see even back then your Nephilim and things like that. They could move, move big stones. They had certain knowledge about weather patterns.

49:48

They had certain knowledge about physics, right. Being part of the created order. If they're fallen angels.

49:55

So why aren't they presenting themselves as like what they, what we think they would present today. Right. There was a, there was a movie back in the seventies called in search of ancient astronauts.

50:05

Yeah. And that's one of the, that was actually one of the movies where they showed some of these, um, pictures of animals and insects that you would see from up above, you know, that, um, you know, we're done by these people.

50:19

It's like, well, how would they have a knowledge and how would they be able to do this? But in this, it was, I guess you would call it was kind of a documentary.

50:27

Yeah. They went into this cave, which had cave drawings on it. And you know, if it's to be, there was a drawing of this being in a, what looked like a rocket ship.

50:40

It had flames coming out the back. And, um, Oh, so you wonder, it's like, well, maybe there was some kind of, um, you know, now why would they do that?

50:54

Why would they show some kind of a ship if they could just materialize or rise in the air, you know, just as a being, you know, why would they use a ship?

51:02

I don't know, but I do remember that vividly, you know, from that movie sticking out. It's like, wow, they, somebody even painted a rocket ship way back.

51:10

And that's, that's a good point. Cause I have seen that. And I've always wondered like, cause you, you look at those things and you go, well, they didn't even have the concept of what we would think of a plane or ship.

51:22

Now I'm not saying they hadn't seen it. They saw it and they, and they wrote it. Uh, but it's, it's always like mind boggling to me how much of our history we have probably lost.

51:32

Yes. Like let's, let's work on the premise that, that mankind is about 10 ,000 years old.

51:37

I think it's right around there somewhere. That's what I personally think. Um, if that's the case, 40 % of our history is not written down.

51:46

We didn't really don't have anything that we can verify being written until about five or 6 ,000 years ago.

51:51

Right. That's crazy. Now for, you know, we lost 4 ,000 years to the young earth creationist to the secular list or to the evolutionist.

52:02

You're saying man has been around for, you know, sometimes millions of years, a couple hundred thousand for what they say, we're walking up.

52:10

Right. And you're telling me we've only got 4 ,000, 5 ,000 years of 200 ,000. Right. So I think their case gets even worse.

52:16

Yes. And you go, we have all kinds of history that we just don't have.

52:22

Right. And I really looked to the Bible and I go, and I go, and I believe in the sufficiency of scripture and I go, well, anything

52:28

I need to know about that, the Lord included it and anything he did, it's fun to talk about all these things.

52:33

Right. And none of these things are really canonical or right. But at the same time, it's like, I don't necessarily build a doctrine off of it.

52:40

I probably don't obsess about it that much because they go, if the Lord wanted me to know more about the Nephilim or aliens or trans dimensional traveling, it would have been included in the word.

52:51

Right. But at the same time, we can't deny that there's these crazy things that go on in this world that God created.

52:57

Exactly. You know, how do you, some of these things truly are just unexplained from a naturalistic, you know, standpoint.

53:08

They really are. And, you know, in, yeah, sufficiency of scripture and God is sovereign over everything and what he's told us in his word is enough for us.

53:18

And, um, so it's, yeah, so. So let me ask you, oh, go ahead.

53:24

Oh, go ahead. So, you know, this is, you know, for the things that I look at and think about, you know, it's, it is speculation on my part in some of these outside of scripture.

53:36

It's like, well, this could be, is it that way? I don't know. Yeah. So like, how do you balance that getting back to the book as we wrap this up here too?

53:45

Like, how do you balance being a believer and then also writing science fiction? Cause you can get into some really weird stuff with science fiction.

53:53

Now my personal view has been like, you can write a really good science fiction book and base it on godly and biblical principles.

54:02

Cause those principles would be the same on any planet. Yes. You know what I mean? In a universe in reality that God created.

54:10

Um, but like, how far do you go when you're writing science fiction and talking about possibly other races and planets and, you know, maybe bumping up against the created order and Genesis one, like if you're a science fiction writer, like yourself, but also a believer.

54:25

That's a, a good question. Uh, you know, so in my book, um,

54:32

I think I dealt with that fairly well because it's actually, well,

54:38

I don't want to give it away, but I just, I think I dealt with it well, but I think, you know, there are a number of writers out there.

54:44

Um, I think you do have to be careful. I mean, you have to be very careful in how you, um, present, you know, you know, how do you, how do you present it?

54:59

Uh, you know, does your, this science, um, this alien race, do they have a religion?

55:05

Right. You know, how do you, how would you do something like that? You know, I, I have a tendency to like shy away from stories that, that have a, an alien with a religion that is like completely different.

55:23

That's, I mean, you know, that's another thing that a lot of science fiction books get wrong is that every world has its own

55:29

God. Right. And it's like, that's completely unscriptural. Yeah.

55:35

And so how do you get around that? Um, but there are other stories, there are other science fiction stories that don't deal with, um, kind of the spiritual aspect of things.

55:47

Um, so I like hard science fiction, which is more like technology based science fiction.

55:54

Uh, and, and the, um, stories that deal with, okay, we're out in the middle of space and our spaceship is, you know, just got hit by a meteor.

56:04

Right. How are we going to get back? Yeah. You know, kind of a thing. Um, I'm not too keen on stories where you have an alien race that said worships another

56:17

God and has, you know, it's, but it's there. I think it's like, it's like science fiction verse kind of fantasy.

56:24

I never, I mean, I know of star Wars, but I never really got into star Wars. And I remember my uncle, the one I'd watched star

56:30

Trek with when I was younger, he always said star Wars, his fantasy star Trek, everything in this in case he's an lead engineer at Ford.

56:38

Now he goes, everything in star Trek could theoretically be true. It's true. Yeah. Based on scientific principles, thermodynamics, physics is like, it might be a stretch and it could be out there, but technically we could do it if we could get to that.

56:52

And as a little kid, I remember going, Oh yeah. And I kind of liked that idea. Like you maybe nerded out a little bit of the technical part of it.

56:58

Right. Even like when you look at transporters, we're, we're dealing with that stuff right now. Can we take something, take it down to the atomic level, transport it, put it back together.

57:07

Right. That's literally what now we've got, like I said, one Adam of one Apple, two feet, but they're working on it.

57:13

They're working on it. Right. That's right. It's based on something. Yeah. So yeah, I'm not big on, on those either.

57:19

And going back to just cause it's fresh in my mind, the CS Lewis space trilogy, I wondered how he was going to deal with that.

57:25

And he almost doesn't address it. He just almost assumes like they are in the same kind of reality of what

57:30

God created. Right. And they have a similar kind of idea of a Supreme being.

57:36

Yes. And I was like, I was a little disappointed. I was like, man, I wish there were, I wish there would have been a more clever

57:42

CS Lewisy because he is so clever. A lot of the stuff he's great. Yeah. The way he explains it, mere

57:47

Christianity, screw tape letters. I mean, Narnia, it's all such great analogy. But he didn't really, he just kind of left the reader to go,

57:55

Oh, okay. They have a system of their own. Right. You know, so I'm just wondering like, as a believer, you go, do you find that like, well, if I've got a non -believer reading this, am

58:05

I leading them to a place to where they think, Oh, there's life on other, you know, to be thinking about there could be some falsehood in God or there could, you know what

58:13

I mean? Like there's gotta be a fine line because as an author, you've got to realize when someone's reading your book, you are influencing them, whether they agree with it, disagree with it.

58:24

There is a degree of influence. That's right. They're putting information in their heads, whether it's fiction or nonfiction too. In my book, you know, there is a definite

58:32

Christian message and I purposely avoided trying to, you know, make it like just a morality tale and just, you know,

58:44

I mean just a good versus evil or anything like that. It's, you know, there is a

58:50

Christian message, which I think comes across. But yeah, you know, if you're a

58:55

Christian and you are in the science fiction realm, I think you have to be careful, you know, very careful about what you, what you write, you know, in the story that you write.

59:10

Yeah. No, true. I mean, there's a responsibility there, right? Yes. Yeah. So, all right. As we wrap this up,

59:15

I wanted to ask you, since you're, since you and I are on the same plane with probably the technology stuff, the engineering stuff, we're probably a little, we're sci -fi geeks.

59:24

We like that. What's like your most exciting thing in that realm, whether it be something that's maybe coming to fruition, technology, science fiction, stuff that you've kind of been looking at and go, that kind of piques my interest.

59:37

Is it, is it something with AI? Is it something going on in genetics? Is it something going on with space travel?

59:43

Like where, where's your natural interest of all the crazy stuff that seems to be going on in the technology world in the last five years?

59:52

And you didn't know I was going to ask this question. No, no, no. This is off the top of your head, but. So, probably two things that have always intrigued me is, first of all, transporting.

01:00:01

You know, we just talked about that. It's like the potential to take a solid object and transport it.

01:00:10

Yeah. You know, the other thing I've always wondered about is, you know, warp speed, how you could make a, a spaceship to be able to travel like that.

01:00:24

Now I don't think, you know, I don't think we'll ever approach that barrier. I think it's just from a physics standpoint, it's just too difficult.

01:00:32

But you know, one thing I've always thought of is if they ever had a lottery to go to Mars, like a man missions to Mars, I would put my name in it right away.

01:00:44

You better check with your wife first. She, you know, but it's just one of those things. It's like, it's like, you know, I would be gone for a few years.

01:00:53

Exactly. But I just, you know, the idea of space travel just intrigues me.

01:00:58

And, you know, what was it last year when William Shatner went up in, was it the

01:01:05

Virgin Galactic? I think it was like the commercial, the commercial flight that gets you up into. I thought to myself, man, even just to see earth from that viewpoint would be.

01:01:16

That'd be pretty cool. I've always wanted to kind of be weightless in space. I know there's some plane rides you can take where they do like a certain angle too, and you're weightless for like 30 seconds or something.

01:01:25

Yeah. But yeah, that'd be cool. Back in 98, I did see a shuttle launch, a space shuttle launch actually in Florida.

01:01:32

It was when John Glenn went up and that was just, you know, it's just fantastic just to see a rocket taking off.

01:01:38

So as a space guy too, that's like, like I said, you've got the telescopes and, you know, the constellations.

01:01:45

I know you've helped me and my kids like look at cool stuff when we're on camping trips and stuff. Like, where do you land on the, that went to the moon conspiracy?

01:01:55

Do you think we went there? Oh yeah. Do you think anything was doctored or NASA like did anything like that?

01:02:02

Or have you ever looked into it? Or do you just think it was like, hey, we got there, came back and now we just can't go back?

01:02:08

I think the conspiracy theories that we didn't are just too kind of outlandish because it, you know, it was just a, you know, there was so much that, you know, we brought back moon rocks.

01:02:25

You know, we, we were there, you know, it's just, I don't think it's something that can be really disputed.

01:02:32

You know, I, it's funny. I do have a book that has pictures of the moon that were, they were just really the, the, like the detail in them is very good.

01:02:45

And there's a, there's a couple of pictures where it looked like off of the, the guy's space suit that you could see like a, an atmosphere, but they explained, it's like, this isn't an atmosphere.

01:02:57

The, the, his pack was jettisoning, jettisoning, jettisoning some things that were in his suit that had to be, it was like a waste sort of, you know, that they, the suits did that.

01:03:10

And I don't know. The only thing I don't like, and it makes me, and it makes me go, huh, that doesn't seem right, is one, we went there a couple of times in a 10 year span, and now we haven't been back in 35 years.

01:03:24

And we go, oh, now we're going to Mars. And you guys, guys, when I was a kid, we were going to colonize the moon.

01:03:29

Right. And they go, oh, well, we can't get past the Van Alen radiation belts. And we go, how'd we do it the first time? Oh, well, we had some technology that allowed us to do it.

01:03:37

Where's the technology? And I say that NASA says, oh, we, we destroyed it all. It was on VHS tapes and we destroyed it.

01:03:43

And you go, okay, something's going on there, whether you don't want other foreign countries to get ahold of the technology or not.

01:03:49

It's just weird that we went there, had multiple people walk on it, and then now not back.

01:03:55

We don't even send, I mean, a manned spaceship has not been to the moon in what, 30 plus years.

01:04:02

We've been in outer space. We're at the International Space Station, which that's really funny if you look at how high up the space station is compared to the moon.

01:04:10

Yeah. It's not even. It's so, we're. Minuscule. We're so close to the earth, man, compared.

01:04:15

And you go, oh, when you think of space, you think way out there to where you go 150 miles up, they consider that space.

01:04:21

Right. You know? But I believe the Chinese are going to be at least sending up an unmanned mission.

01:04:28

Is it this year? Once again, though, it's unmanned. They're saying we can't get a human being through that radiation belt.

01:04:33

It'll fry you immediately. And you go, well, how'd you do it in 69 then? Right. And they go, oh, we had some technology.

01:04:39

I mean, you go back and you look at it, you go, we had technology, but we've since destroyed it. And you go, you'd kind of want to keep that, I think, as a superpower.

01:04:45

Right. That's the only people that's ever been to the moon. Keep that technology. And your technology back then,

01:04:50

I've got hundreds of times more power in my cell phone sitting here than you guys had. Yeah. So I don't know.

01:04:57

I think we went to the moon, but I'm just saying, I think there's other stuff going on too to where, you know, like we talked at the top of the show, the president not only doesn't know anything, but there's probably an elite group of people that make some big decisions that benefit another group of elite people to say, maybe it's not in our best interest to go to the moon now.

01:05:18

Maybe it's our best interest to put a plan, let an Elon Musk do a 30 year plan to go to Mars because that keeps them distracted on Mars for the next 30 years.

01:05:27

And we're not using government funds. We can let some private guy do it and, you know, so.

01:05:34

I mean, yeah, yeah, it's he's private, but remember, he also, he also got a billion dollars in government loans backed by the

01:05:41

CIA. That's how he started Tesla. So he's got his government connections. He's paid them all back though.

01:05:46

So Elon has paid them all back. But it's always funny, even the billionaires in this country, if you go back far enough, you see where kind of intergovernmental agencies get involved.

01:05:57

You know, even you look at Jeff Bezos. I mean, where do you think all, all of the cloud storage for the

01:06:03

CIA on Amazon servers in 1998, before cloud was even a thing.

01:06:09

And you go, huh, that's odd. Why were they invested in this? Jeff Bezos guy in 1998 when his company was only six years old, he was still selling books.

01:06:16

Or no, maybe it was 2008. I'm sorry. I'm 10 years later, but still, still not what it is today, you know?

01:06:23

And you just go, it's kind of funny how people in power will try to control.

01:06:28

Oh yes. I don't know how we got off on this. But that's part of sci -fi too, right? Yeah. And you read a good sci -fi book. There's all that kind of stuff too, but you got anything else for us,

01:06:36

Craig? So we got Mission Eden, Craig Twining, go buy it on Amazon. It's a great book, but what else do you have for us,

01:06:42

Craig? I am working on a sequel. It's more, it's more earth -based, but still technology in there, but a little more relational, relationship -based.

01:06:54

I hope to, I hope to get it out maybe this year. I, I, I've actually have to go back and rewrite something because I wanted to make it a little bit different and I've got a couple more ideas, but I'm chugging along.

01:07:08

It took me decades on this one. Hopefully it won't be as long in the second one. Well, it's kind of like, what did they say about bands?

01:07:16

You have your lifetime to write your first album and you have two years to write your second. That's right. So you take as long as you want on this one, but we want you to get that second one out so we can read it.

01:07:25

Exactly. All right, cool. Craig, thanks for being here, man. Hey guys, thanks for watching another episode of Deadman Walking Podcast.

01:07:31

As always, you can find out more about us at dmwpodcast .com. You can check out our site, get some snarky merch, get your wine -em, dine -em,

01:07:39

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01:07:44

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01:07:52

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01:08:00

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