Provoked: Arrows for the Kingdom W/Nancy Wilson & Joy Hunter

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Hey, everybody, what's up? This is Desi and Joy, the Girl Hunter, and we just wanted to invite you to reformcon .org.

00:07

Do you want to give them the info, Joy? Yes. Thank you for taking the website. Reformcon .org.

00:14

So if you go to reformcon .org, you can purchase tickets. Reformcon is going to be

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Thursday, October 27th to Saturday, October 29th. We're going to have some really great speakers coming out.

00:26

We have Jeff Durbin, Toby Sumter, James White, David Bonson, Ben Merkel, Joe Boot, Andrew Sandlin, a great lineup of people.

00:37

Yep. All the podcasts from Apologia Studios will be there. So we hope you guys make it. It's going to be fun. There's going to be plenty of time for fellowship and an after party.

00:44

So go get your tickets at reformcon .org. Bye. I mean, this is what's wrong with the

01:08

Christian church today. We don't know who God is and we don't know who we are. Officer, you need to repent of your lawless conduct.

01:25

You don't know the law and yet you pretend to represent it. That's not law enforcement, sir.

01:31

That's being a thug. We will not stop fighting and bothering you all until this monstrous barbaric practice of legalized abortion ends and we are teaching our children to do the same.

01:48

God's word says that the shed blood of innocent humans cries out for justice and mark my words, they will have their day in court.

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Nobody gets saved by being treated nicely. They get saved by hearing the gospel.

02:02

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. If we don't open our mouths and commend

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Christ, we're not loving them no matter what we're doing with our hands.

02:22

Hello, you are watching or listening to another episode of Provoked. I'm Desi Mays and I'm missing my co -host,

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Zach, but he's out for the day, but I'm with my fill -in co -host, Joy.

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Your beautiful co -host, some might say. My beautiful, yes, very beautiful. Hello, I'm so happy to be here.

02:40

The girl. Thank you for spending time with us today. Oh yeah, I love it. I'm so thankful and I'm so excited about our guest.

02:48

Before I introduce her though, I just wanted to encourage you to go to Apologia All Access if you haven't already and sign up to become an

02:55

All Access member and sign up for Bronson U. That's for free and you could get tons of lectures and just good stuff there.

03:03

And if you haven't yet, buy your tickets to ReformCon because it's going to be so much fun. It's October 27th through the 29th,

03:09

I think. Is that right? Yes. And it's just going to be a great time. There's going to be just some awesome speakers, some great fellowship.

03:15

I think there's like an after party and it's going to be actually cooler here, which is good, you know?

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Yeah. At the end of October, it'll be glorious. It'll be like a hundred. Yeah, it'll be cooler.

03:29

So anyways, get your tickets. Well, growing up here, I remember just depending on how hot the year was, you'd have to change your costume, which happens in cold places too.

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But I remember lifeguard. Everyone being like, oh, well, I guess I'll be a lifeguard this year.

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And you just wear a swimsuit and some sunscreen on your nose. Oh, that's cute.

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It's like the makeshift. Everything else is too hot. That kind of happened in San Diego too.

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Yeah. Well, I will just get started because I want to utilize all the time we have on our guests because she is such a blessing in my life personally, and I know to many.

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We have Nancy Wilson on and I'm just ecstatic. Nancy is a wife to Pastor Doug Wilson, a mom, a grandmother, an author, a teacher, a speaker.

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She's written some of my favorite books, Learning Contentment, Fruit of Her Hands. Nancy, thank you for coming on the show today.

04:26

My pleasure. Thank you. That's sweet. How are you? Great. Excellent.

04:34

Wonderful. Well, we're just going to kind of pick your brain. You know, the purpose of Provoked is to really just stir the body to love and good works in the area of evangelism, fighting for the pre -born, defending the faith, destroying cultural idols and just Christian living.

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And so kind of want to pick your brain today of just how that really begins in the home and how we, as women, can cultivate just a home that is gospel -driven and we can raise arrows for the kingdom.

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Simple topic. It's just like one sentence answer right there, right? Right. Good luck.

05:15

Yeah. Well, I'll try to stay on. I'll try to stay just like simple and one question at a time because, you know what,

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Nancy, I feel like I could probably hold you captive for like eight hours and just grill you, give you a couple cups of coffee and just ask a million questions.

05:31

I won't do that. So before we get started, I want to just for fun do a very quick, just some icebreaker questions, just a little roundtable you have to answer to,

05:41

Joy. Oh, OK. Yeah. OK. So I'll just do it really quick. OK, Nancy, favorite food. Avocados.

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Mm hmm. Good. Good. Salmon. Salmon. How's that? Is that good enough? Yeah, it makes sense.

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I do love dark chocolate. Oh, yeah. Those are all like real healthy. Oh, yeah.

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Yeah. How about you, Joy? I was going to say, well, so lately I feel like just like a nice piece of sourdough bread with some like butter and avocado and tomatoes and maybe like some eggs on top.

06:19

Oh, yum. But definitely with you on the avocado for sure. I love avocado. Mine is

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I love sushi, fresh sushi. Oh, yeah. And also Mexican food, but only from San Diego or Mexico.

06:31

Oh, that's right. You're from San Diego, so you only eat Mexican food from San Diego. Yeah. OK. What is your least favorite food?

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Well, I won't eat a banana. Oh, really? Interesting. Cannot. Just can't do it.

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My husband doesn't like them. Yeah, I can't do it. Yeah, my husband would agree with you on that one, too.

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How about you? I don't know if I have a least favorite food. I'm one of those people that. Well, I guess

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I like I have struggled with like the sin of apathy with food, like I'll eat cold food,

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I'll eat whatever is like easiest. Yeah. So I'm not that means I'm not picky to my credit.

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But, you know, there is the downside of having that as well. Yeah, well, I'm kind of the same way.

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Actually, I thought of this question, didn't even really think of the answer. I I just don't I'm not a fan of scallops.

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That's weird. Just one weird thing that I'm not a fan of. Yeah, I don't know if I'd be like I haven't had a lot of like organ meat, but I feel like maybe

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I'd just say no. Yeah, that's my least favorite. OK. OK, we're going to make you had

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Nancy Wilson on and you ask these questions. OK, moving on. Last question before we get started.

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If you what's your favorite go to? You have a last minute opportunity to show some hospitality and somebody's in town.

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Hey, let's go back to our house and hang out and have dinner. What would you would you order? I think

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I would order a pizza or something. But yeah, a favorite like go to meal order or I may make maybe make.

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What would you make? Well, if if we were grabbing something like grabbing someone after church,

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I would and I was unprepared. I'd probably hit the grocery store and do like make your own sandwich, get some nice deli meats and cheeses and fruit.

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Nice bottle of wine, just, you know, and some good bread. If I didn't have any that I had made, we'd buy some nice sourdough or something or, you know,

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I mean, just if if that was that's probably what I do. But that doesn't sound very impressive.

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Sorry. It sounds impressive to me. I love fruit. I love fresh fruit and I love bread. I mean, I feel like I'm just one of those people.

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Once I have one slice, I can eat the whole loaf. A bag of Doritos or something, right?

08:51

Right. Something salty and delicious. Especially if you have a nice glass of wine, too, with it. I mean, there you go.

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That's what it was your go to make. Mine is like I'm ordering a pizza or I mean, pizza is delicious.

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So actually, one of the things Nancy had suggested in one of her books is one of my go -to's now is just a mac and cheese,

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Velveeta mac and cheese. And you can feed a lot of people. And I even have gluten free pasta for people that are gluten free, like in my family.

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So, yeah. And kids love it. Adults love it. You can't go wrong with cheese and butter and, you know, pasta.

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No, I think that would be mine. OK, well, that was fun. Thank you. Now I was just going to see if you could briefly share just your testimony.

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You have a podcast. You've written books. You're married. Do you have 16 grandkids or is it 17 on the way?

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17. Number 18 is on the way. Oh, OK. Oh, that's such a blessing. Wow. Super exciting.

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So if you can go as far as you want, like back or however brief or whatever you want to keep it.

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But if you wouldn't mind just kind of sharing your testimony of how you came to the Lord and kind of leading up to your life now.

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All right. Well, I grew up in a Protestant home, so we were

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God fearers, but we were not born again people. So I grew up occasionally attending church.

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My dad was Air Force, so we traveled. We were stationed overseas. There was a

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Protestant service and a Catholic service. We went to the Protestants. So I knew I was Protestant. And Sunday school,

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I was in the choir. And then we moved to Texas and joined a Presbyterian church.

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And I was in the youth group and the choir, very active in it and became a member.

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So I should have a better memory if they must have baptized me.

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But boy, I don't remember that. So it must have been just a light sprinkle in the elders room where they were meeting.

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I don't know. I should look into that. At any rate, in college, my

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Protestant foundation started getting wobbly. And it just wasn't enough, especially because my

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English classes were really negative about man is just an animal.

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There's no meaning in life. And it just I didn't have good answers. So I was deeply troubled, really, honestly, looking back on it, try and figure it out.

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And I had three questions. One is everybody really was asking in the 70s is what is the purpose of life?

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You know, and I would think I'm getting a degree so I can get a job. I'm getting a job so I can eat.

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I'm eating so I can get up to go to work. Is that it? Is that it? And the second question

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I had was, how do I get free of myself? Myself is always in the way.

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And that's a really difficult question that either. How do you do that?

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Apart from Christ, you cannot. And then what was my third one? Oh, I used to ask people, my friends, they are you happy?

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And I mean, deeply happy, not just happy, because some circumstance, you've got a date with someone you're excited about, or, you know, are you deeply happy?

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Nobody ever answered positive. Everybody was unhappy. So those are my basic questions.

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And through a series of circumstances, I won't go into all that right now. My older sister had come to Christ, and she was married with kids.

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And I had just decided after, you know, viewing their life that I would never get married or have kids looked horrible and miserable.

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And suddenly her family went through a real transformation. I mean, it was striking and amazing.

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And they had come to Christ. So she ended up sharing with me. And I, you know, we talked, she said,

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Do you want to pray? I said, No. I don't want to be like those campus crusaders.

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That was my context, you know, and I don't know what I had against them, except they made me feel uncomfortable.

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So So anyway, after meeting with her, within just a few hours,

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I was praying and getting my heart right with God. And I remember thinking when

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I got up, I was I had gone for a walk, and I was just sitting in a park. When I got up,

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I thought, the universe makes sense. It's like, it's all come into focus. It's black and white.

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It's not this big, gray muddle. So that was my conversion story. And God was just so kind to me over the next few days.

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My sister lived in another town. I said, I called her said, So what do I do now?

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And she said, What are you talking about? I said, Well, I did what you said. And she said, Are you joking? She had no idea.

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She thought I was gone forever. So anyway, I slowly connected with believers.

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I got a Bible, started reading, so got baptized in the river.

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Wow. So that's a short form of my testimony.

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That was 1973. How old were you? I was just shy of my 21st birthday.

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Oh, praise God. That's wonderful. I do. I do. I thank him very much.

14:42

Yes. Well, thank you for sharing that. It's amazing. Was the river cold? Do you remember?

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Oh, my word. So I was converted in June. And then I went overseas for a semester.

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I came back Christmas. I got plugged in then to a church. And it was in Idaho.

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You can't really get in the rivers in the winter. So it was April. And all it was was a rushing mountain stream.

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It wasn't a huge river. But that was just melted snow. And it just knocked the wind out of me when

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I went under. My future father -in -law baptized me. But I staggered to shore.

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I mean, I could not breathe. It was very glamorous. Like true discipleship.

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You get baptized in the river in April in northern Idaho. Yeah. Wow. That's wonderful.

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And then how long after that did you meet Pastor Doug and get married? Well, let's see.

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I graduated in 1974, converted in 73, graduated in 74.

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And I started working for his dad in an evangelistic Christian bookstore on Main Street.

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And I also was associate staff with InterVarsity.

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And because I was such a young Christian, they wouldn't take me on as staff, full staff.

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But they would take me as associate staff if I worked for Jim. And he could sort of oversee my progress.

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So both jobs had zero salary. So that was my first job after graduating.

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And so the bookstore just ran on gifts. And they never asked for money. And if gifts came in, they would divide it up.

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They sold books. It's true. But they used the money to buy more books. And we gave away a lot of books.

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So we tried to, it was contact evangelism in the bookstore. A lot of students in the community didn't know it was a

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Christian bookstore until they came in. And then they decided never to come back. But some didn't.

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Some stayed. But they would come in because we put Lewis and Tolkien in the window. They would come in.

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We would just engage in conversation. So then I met Doug.

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He was home on leave from the Navy. Met him in 74,

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I guess, summer of. He went back for a year in submarine service. So we didn't have a lot of contact.

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And then he returned in August of 75. And we got engaged the end of September and married the end of December.

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So we got right to it. Great. And three children and 17 grandchildren.

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Yeah, three kids. And they've been very productive. God has blessed them with wonderful families, each one.

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Yeah. That's wonderful. I know we were just talking before we got started about just your family's books.

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Performing Marriage is such a great book. Why Children Matter. Rebecca's Eve in Exile.

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We're like, I'm like, I wish that that could be in every single history. In every single history class.

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Rebecca's Yoo -Hoo and Loving the Little Years. I love that one, especially because I have little ones. I mean, Rachel.

18:16

Excuse me. Yes. Yeah. So anyways, your family is just. And Nate has written his

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Death by Living and. The Tilt -A -World. That's from the Tilt -A -World. Love that. And his

18:28

Fantasy for Kids. Yeah. We're just so blessed by your family's work.

18:34

Oh, yeah. Doug has joked before. I think it was Doug who said this. Like some families, they all sing and they go into the family band, you know, on the road.

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We write books. We just. The family business. I don't know. Yeah. It just happened that way.

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Yeah. Well, it's such a blessing for like Joy and I were talking to about just we were not saved until we were.

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I was in my late 20s. I don't know how old you were, but you didn't grow up in the church. And just being able to have these type of resources because we didn't grow up in the church.

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We didn't have a model. You know, we were we went to public school. So a lot of the history we learned was just government indoctrinated.

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And so, gosh, it's a blessing. Really. It truly is for a lot of people, but for people like us that really had that government indoctrination.

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Yeah. Well, you know, just the it's the that idea of kind of reeducating, sort of getting rid of some things you learned and replacing it with.

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Oh, my goodness. Renewing. Well, I was government school educated and so was

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Doug. OK, so he's really the driving force. He's the one I I would teach a little

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Bible studies and he had his secretary just take a tape and listen to it and type up like an article from my

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Bible study. And then he brought it home and it said Femina on the top. And it was for a magazine he was starting for agenda.

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And, of course, it was awful because when you transcribe something, it's it's so garbled. And that was the beginning of my writing right there.

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Well, if I was like, what if, you know, that would be fun, but I hadn't really thought of it.

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I was busy. I was busy with the kids and so forth. But he was really the the engine.

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He kind of gave you that job. Oh, yeah. And he's prolific, as you know.

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Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, I'm going to I'm going to be very respectful of your time.

20:33

So I just wanted to kind of get right into the meat of of the show. So how as we as how can we as mothers and wives and single ladies participate in reaching the lost?

20:46

I know that's a broad question that depends. That depends on who you are and what your gifts are and what your opportunities are.

20:55

Right. So you could wake up every morning and say, today

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I am going to share my, you know, my faith. But God not give you the opportunity that day.

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I had some wonderful opportunities in the bookstore, but it was a setup.

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You know, it was easy. Yeah, yeah. But some days, some days, I mean, some weeks, I'm sure

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I had no opportunities at all. So we can't just decide to do it, but we can pray the

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Lord will give us opportunities. And, you know, mothers who are busy raising their kids,

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I was teaching at school. I never knew. I mean, some of the kids may not be believers.

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And just as I'm teaching literature, that having a Christian emphasis and sharing the gospel through what

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I was doing, there would be opportunities there. But you have to just go with what you have, the opportunities you have.

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And I am not the kind of person who would just go out on Main Street and hand out booklets.

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It's just, I guess I could if I had to, but it wouldn't be my natural skill set.

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Sure. But you were at home raising children that would one day write books for the kingdom.

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So being faithful in what we're called to do, and like I taught at Logos for many years, many really great kids that came through there and meeting their parents.

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You just take the opportunities you have. Sure. And you may not be called. I don't think everyone has the gift of evangelism like my father -in -law did.

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But some are called to other things. So we use our gifts. Maybe it's encouragement.

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Maybe it's giving and hospitality and so forth. But yes, our kids were our first project, for sure.

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For sure. One thing that I really appreciate just from reading some of your books and listening to you is

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I think that there's like two ditches that moms can go into, mothers of small children. Yeah.

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One is not really loving and cherishing these years because they can be hard and strenuous.

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And so we can either go that way or the other ditch I feel like is we fear the future of what happens when these little ones are grown and out of my house.

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And when I was a new mom, I kind of had that almost like an impending doom. Like you better cherish this because once that's over, life's over.

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And really like reading and listening to you gave me a really good perspective, a biblical perspective of life after our kids are grown and how much joy can be found in that and how much good works are there for us waiting too.

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And it's not just about raising little children. So that really helped me in my parenting a lot to just kind of switch my perspective.

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Because if you have that impending doom, it's stressful because you're like, I better make every second count, you know?

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And it's just you have to that like you only have 18 summers. Yes. Mentality. Right.

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And the thing is, that's not walking by faith. Right. It's like I remember when the kids were little saying, oh, honey,

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I wish we could just freeze this moment. You know, they're so cute. And he said,

24:16

Nancy, we want oak trees. We don't want we don't want little saplings. We want oak trees.

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And I was like, good point. So you want the trees to grow. It's not that you want to keep them as little saplings.

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And but you have to walk by faith. That means you trust God. And, you know, he has he has good works prepared for you in advance for all your days, however many of those are.

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So with the kids and once they are launched and have families of their own and living, you know, their own lives before the

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Lord, you'll have opportunities to help and encourage and enjoy and all the friendship and fellowship.

24:54

But you'll still have a purpose for sure. Well, and you just had

25:00

I mean, not super recently, but somewhat recently you had, I think, a granddaughter get married.

25:08

Oh, I did. Yes. How about that? Wonderful. Wonderful.

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It's just yeah. And she got married just a few weeks after my father -in -law passed away.

25:22

And Doug and I and I had moved in with him to take care of him. And we were there for four years.

25:28

And so in God's providence, you know, just seeing the end of one generation and then the beginning of a whole new family with potential for the next generation.

25:39

So it's really sweet to be to see both so close together, one the end of May and the other early

25:45

June. So just a few weeks apart. Oh, that's beautiful. I think there was a picture that came across on Facebook of your granddaughter's wedding.

25:55

And there was like a ton of confetti. And it was just a beautiful picture. I'm like, this needs to be like an art piece.

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It was gorgeous. Yeah. Well, Becca had this challenge of where to have it and ended up they decided to have it in the street.

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They got a permit to block off the street. And the wedding was in the street.

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And we the whole family, we each they gave us that confetti cannon. I think it's what it's called.

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So at the queue, we all pulled it. And there it was. Glorious.

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Oh, was it a huge a lot of fun? Oh, yeah. Was it a huge cleanup? I was curious, actually, when I saw it.

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I'm like, that's beautiful. They just all, you know, yeah. How smart. That is so smart.

26:40

They just disappear. Oh, wow. Now that's genius. I asked the same thing. I asked that question.

26:46

Yeah, a podcast full of ladies. You know what? You know, Marcus Pittman and Laura Pittman, they got engaged.

26:53

They did like this huge explosion of glitter. And I think Laura said it was like their friends were still finding glitter months later.

27:01

Yeah. So yeah. Wow. Well, that's yeah, that's a hot tip. Get the dissolvable confetti.

27:08

Yeah, I know it. So I had when I had asked you to come on, I just have to admit,

27:15

I excitedly told some of my friends. And so then they were like, oh, ask her this. OK, so one of the questions was, what does older women teaching younger women look like practically?

27:26

And I know that's probably different for many people. Like you said, it depends on the circumstances and your age.

27:31

But is there any anything you could add to that? Like what that might look like practically? Well, I started teaching women when there were women in our church that wanted a

27:44

Bible study or and my kids were old enough. I had the opportunity to do it.

27:51

So I wasn't that much older. Some of them were even my age that I was. So I remember wondering one time when a woman much older than I was at the time asked me for some counsel.

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And I remember thinking, well, Lord, you know, it doesn't really matter.

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Like, well, let me see your ID. Like, how old are you? So I can't counsel or help you because I'm younger.

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So I just got to work early on just helping the women in our congregation teaching and doing book studies with them.

28:27

So I didn't ever I probably targeted the women we had of all ages, not just the younger women.

28:36

Anybody could come. And it's always applicable. Like we did the rare jewel of Christian contentment,

28:42

Thomas Watson. We did some Puritan books that were so wonderful. We did a John Piper book. We did a lot of books over the years together.

28:49

I just think, again, I'd say, Doug, do you think I should lead a lady's study? And he'd say, well, do you want to?

28:56

And I might say, no, I don't really want to. And he said, well, then don't. Or I might say, yeah,

29:02

I think it would be great. This would be a good time to say, well, go for it. So it was never like my duty as the pastor's wife.

29:08

It was just if I wanted to do it and I had the opportunity,

29:14

I took it. And over the years, it fluctuated. So I did college girl studies when our girls were in that age group.

29:24

And I've just sort of adapted to my season of life and my gifts, what

29:32

I can do. I hope that answers. It's kind of vague, isn't it? I would just, you know, don't wait around for the older woman.

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Look around. Think, well, who could I bless? Who needs some encouragement right here?

29:49

And don't feel a burden. Like, I don't want to do this. Sometimes I just really didn't want to do it.

29:55

It didn't seem like the right time. And my sweet husband would say, then don't.

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I can only think of one time when he said, I really think you should. I think it'd be good for you right now to do it. So I did.

30:09

And he was right. But now that is that is helpful. I think we can get hung up on like, well, she's only two years younger than me.

30:16

But maybe you're I know you might be older than the faith. So there's that. Well, there's that. Or who's checking?

30:23

Exactly. We're just there to serve each other. I think that, yeah, that the older women should be disposed to be used.

30:31

Like, let me be used for it. So the older women, when the kids move out, instead of thinking, now

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I have no purpose in life. It's like, well, who are the young girls who are in the thick of it? Who could use encouragement and help?

30:43

Maybe it's not direct teaching. Maybe it's just taking the meals. Or I had an older friend who came and taught me how to can peaches and pears when the kids are little.

30:54

Oh, my goodness. It was wonderful. Brought all the equipment, even brought the fruit. Wow. So that was an older woman teaching a younger woman.

31:04

And it wasn't a Bible study. It was how to do some cool things with canning food.

31:11

So yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I guess it's practical, even especially now where I think there's a potential for a lot of women in the church to not even know how to cook or how to host people.

31:25

Or I hung out with our pastor's wife when

31:32

I was young, and she taught me how to make cakes. There you go.

31:38

And that's so valuable. So valuable. I had a friend who was close to my age teach me how to bake bread.

31:45

And boy, that was great. I just had never done it. She gave me the recipe and I hit it. Go. And I made bread every week for years.

31:53

So it's just a little encouragement goes a long ways. Right. That's right.

31:59

That's wonderful. Well, we're almost out of time. So my phone.

32:06

There we go. Oh, we're out of time. So I have one last question for you that you alluded to earlier in the talk.

32:14

Are you happy? Yes. Very. Yes.

32:21

And it isn't a surface happiness. You know, that comes and goes. It's a deep satisfaction in the

32:28

Lord and just a joy that is real. So praise God.

32:33

Thank you so much. Yeah. Well, bless you, too. And thank you so much for having me on.

32:38

It was fun. Thank you, Nancy. Thank you for your just your work and feminine and just you're such a needed voice right now in this culture.

32:47

And we're just so thankful for you and your family. So I pray so good. Thank you for your time.

32:53

Thank you. Bye. Have a wonderful day. I will leave. OK. Bye. Oh, man, she's the best.

33:02

Really? Like I'm like, oh, I would like I seriously would like to be like, OK, Nancy, come on over. Get a pot of coffee or like a nice glass of wine and just be like have a book of.

33:12

Well, now after she said I was like, oh, because bread was going to be my next.

33:19

Sourdough bread is the next thing I want to learn. Got to find someone to teach me bread.

33:25

Yeah. Well, which I could probably talk to Candy about again. Candy is the queen of sourdough.

33:31

I mean, she's so like some of the pictures she takes. I'm like, it's always like it's like dark chocolate, sea salt bread.

33:40

It's always like too when I'm hungry and I'm like, why now? I'm like drooling. So anyways. Well, and yeah, you know, we the sourdough is so great.

33:49

It doesn't spike your blood sugar. So it's not like regular bread. Oh, God is so good.

33:56

Well, I hope you guys were blessed by that. I she is seriously one of my heroes of the faith because she has really helped me as a as an adult

34:05

Christian woman to practically put into. How am

34:12

I trying to say this? How to live out the Christian life as a woman looking at scripture as our foundation, because like we said, we didn't grow up.

34:19

We had wonderful parents, but I didn't grow up in a Christian home. Well, I think sometimes there's this. It's like we know what we're supposed to do.

34:28

It's like, well, but it's not happening. Right. You know, like at the end, are you happy?

34:34

And just everything in her face, her body language, you can tell. And I think that sometimes we get like we get stuck.

34:43

Like, I know what I'm supposed to be, but I'm not. And then sometimes we just manufacture it.

34:49

We pretend that it's there. And then that means that everyone around us thinks we're very full of joy, but we're not.

34:57

And there's just I mean, obviously, part of it's just sanctification and maturity.

35:03

But that doesn't happen without, you know, God giving us examples to look at and to be like,

35:13

OK, so she really is full of joy, right? She's not pretending. And then, of course, with that comes actual wisdom from the

35:22

Bible. Sure, of course. You know, but so, yeah, I think that there is a tendency to get a little bit stuck and you need.

35:31

Well, I mean, that's obviously the purpose of the older women teaching the younger women. It's, you know, like we said, it's not so much about checking the

35:39

ID. It's about the person that did it that and now they can encourage you who's trying to do it and maybe failing.

35:49

Right. Yeah. But yeah, we all have different different opportunities and different gifts.

35:54

And, you know, we can bless somebody else with our experience and knowledge and yeah, she's just she's cool.

36:01

It was that was awesome. And I just like I told her, I feel like right now it's such a it's such a light in a dark culture where we're hearing just all the feminism and gender weirdness and just the crazy communist stuff in the public schools and just just to have a light of truth like,

36:21

OK, here's what Scripture says. Here's how we're supposed to live as women. There is a difference between man and woman and here here how it works out beautifully.

36:29

And then you just see the fruit of her hands in her children. And of course, not everybody that raises

36:37

Christian children are going to have like these children that pump out these amazing books and stuff. And they're going to your children are going to have their own gifts and everything.

36:44

But it's it's very it's very neat to see just how much that how productive that family is for the kingdom.

36:50

Well, it produces like your your productivity produces.

36:57

Yeah. You you're going to see if you're working hard, you're going to see the fruits of your labor.

37:03

Right. Yeah. There was some book that I was reading that was like he like describes this like whole complicated thing that's very like labor intensive.

37:14

And he's like and and that's like plenty of work. And then the fruit is plenty.

37:21

All right. So like it's really it's wonderful to see the fruit achieved, encouraging.

37:29

And then just I think really encouraging for me is just our our ability and our capabilities when it comes to working and putting adding more.

37:43

And then, you know, like you don't have to add and add and add until you can't stand under the weight.

37:50

But I think that if we struggle with anything currently, it's it's probably not taking on more.

37:57

It's probably this concern with like, well, if I take on too much, where what will happen to me? Right. You know, and so just this idea that that if you can work cheerfully unto the

38:09

Lord, there will be a product at the end. And it's and it's it's a library of books that you've written or it's your beautiful granddaughter getting married in the street and then confetti everywhere.

38:22

Disposable. That's genius. Now, and just, you know, like you and Summer, too.

38:31

It's just so it's so encouraging when you you turn on the news and you just hear, you know, just junk and junk and lies.

38:38

Not all that's on the news, but it's just so great to have these voices like you and Summer and like Nancy and her daughters and the

38:47

Wilsons just being this bright light of the gospel amidst a culture that hates

38:52

God. So it was just it was just super cool to talk to her. And, you know, we talk about like fighting for the kingdom and stuff and you think like of men and soldiers and all that, but like women do a lot of fighting at home.

39:05

And I feel like I feel like Nancy in her way is such a such a soldier in a feminine way, not a manly soldier.

39:13

Well, no, I think I was thinking about I always there. We read for Sheila's book club.

39:19

We read a character studies of the Scottish Covenanters, and that was like a life transforming book.

39:25

But one of the Covenanters wives. So there's like a bunch of the

39:30

Covenanters in this book, so I might be getting the details a little mixed up between them. But basically, he was in prison or gone and not able to be home.

39:42

And then they were coming after her as well. And so she was raising her children and living in caves and like barns and wherever she could like life on the run.

39:54

And it's so interesting just in terms of, you know, when you think about not warrior women,

40:05

I don't want that because that's like, that's just not what I want. That's why

40:10

I was like, what word am I looking for? Yeah, but women who are ready to do battle and, you know, battle for women may be different than it is for men.

40:21

But we have our battles of our own. Absolutely. And I think about this woman who raised her children living in a cave and strove to be cheerful while doing it and strove a word.

40:39

I got it. I don't know. It made sense in my mind. Striving. She was striving. Yeah. She strived. Tomato, tomato.

40:48

We get it. But yeah. And so, you know, again, I think it's variable what that looks like for you.

40:55

Maybe even the battle is just with your internal thoughts and your temptation to say no.

41:00

And but yeah, so it looks different. But it's women have to be you and you don't you don't stumble like when you're a soldier, you don't just like stumble into being a good soldier.

41:14

So women can't also we can't just expect to like fall into battle ready. You can't just be like,

41:20

I guess tomorrow I could go live in a cave. Yeah, you have to be you have to be ready to cheer cheerfully serve.

41:31

Yeah, so good. Yeah, I was just thinking, too, of like, sometimes like it might just be in the kitchen and you're explaining the gospel to your kids or your kid has a my my son's 11.

41:43

And so some of the harder questions are starting to come the more complex issues of the faith and, you know, of the world.

41:50

And so just having these conversations and being ready and being like, you know what? I don't know that answer.

41:56

But let's look at what God's Word says about it. Let's bring dad and let's all talk about it. So just being prepared to just faithfully point our kids to scripture and all their questions and.

42:06

Well, and some of it so much of it is like you too. Like I feel like women are such a barometer for their home.

42:16

And I mean, sometimes the the best like just to be an example is like you actually living out just like the reason why

42:25

Nancy is such an enormous blessing is she has lived out her faith and we are watching her do it.

42:32

And, you know, kids are very aware of when years when the principle of your life is do it.

42:40

Do what I say, not what I do. Right. But when but moms have a tremendous opportunity to do what they say.

42:49

And then I think kids follow that, you know.

42:56

All right. Well, thanks for coming on today. Thank you for having me. Yeah, no, it was it was a blessing.

43:01

I loved having both of you on. And I think this was a great, great episode. I hope it blesses a lot of people.

43:08

Maybe Nancy, if she has time, might come on again. I don't know. I'm like, and I've got 100 more questions for you.

43:14

We'll just save this paper for the next. Yeah. I'll be like, OK, so last time we ended on page two.

43:22

We'll go right back there. Right. I'm going to do it. So maybe you can come on next time and help me. Because Summer, she's busy having she had a baby.

43:29

I know. That's why she's not here today. Otherwise, I'm sure she would have joined us. Yeah, it would have been lovely.

43:34

And she's doing more important things. She's doing important things. Yeah. Well, guys, thank you for joining us.

43:41

It was just a blessing for me. I hope it blessed you. If you are liking our show, could you just do us a favor and write us a review and hit the like and subscribe and share with your friends?

43:53

And yeah, make sure you sign up for Apologia All Access where, you know, when you do, when you partner with us, you make everything happen here at Apologia.

44:02

And go to ReformCon because we're going to be there and it's going to be fun. Hopefully.

44:10

Hopefully it'll be fun. No, it will be fun. Your face just looks surprised. You're like, huh?

44:17

Oh, well. Yes, it will be. It will be great. I mean, we have great, we have, well,

44:26

I was just about to explain something that's way more complicated than it needs to be. We have people from the

44:34

Wilson adjacent family. Ben Merkel's coming. And then I'm really excited for David Bonson too.

44:43

Yeah, that's going to be awesome. You guys, thank you for joining us today. That was another episode and we'll see you next time.