Dead Men Walking Podcast: What does it mean to be inclusive?

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00:15

Sweet sweet guitar riff. Sweet! Sounds better each week. How do you spell sweet?

00:23

Oh my gosh, should we let them in on this story? Should we let people in on this?

00:28

Yeah yeah yeah. How you get underneath my skin and annoy me and also confuse me.

00:35

Cuz like when we first started you know the well you started getting ahold of me a little bit more hey come over let's do a show.

00:42

Right. Yeah. And you would text. I would text and you would reply sweet s -u -i -t -e like a office sweet right?

00:53

That's how you spell it right? Yeah. And the first time I was like oh it just auto corrected you know it's no big deal that happens.

01:00

About the seventh time I said you know how sweet is spelled right? Yeah. It's s -w -e -e -t and you're like oh yeah of course and then you're like I saw see a little bit sweet s -u -i -t -e.

01:13

I was like is he doing this on purpose or is this like a it's one of your classic like not subliminal but like very low -key sarcastic.

01:23

Yeah yeah for sure. Jokes which they say is a sign of intelligence people who like sarcasm. I don't know about that but.

01:30

And then after that you started replying with sweat. Yeah yeah. I had to switch it up.

01:36

You just kept doing other versions of sweet. We have fun on text. Dude. So yeah how do you spell sweet?

01:43

It's so funny though how much I depend on autocorrect.

01:48

Yeah. You know I mean well maybe I shouldn't say that like I'm not really like a I'm not a wordsmith but I'm also not like I look

01:58

I was in the fifth grade spelling bee okay let's just let me just throw that out there to everybody okay.

02:04

Okay. I got in front of Manor Elementary School and I did pretty good.

02:11

I wasn't the first out but I just want to let you guys know that the word that I got mixed up on was stitch.

02:20

I forgot the T. Silent T. Yeah. I don't know why.

02:26

So you just spelled sitch? I know I spelled no no STI CH.

02:31

I forgot the T on the other side. There's two T's? Isn't there? STI TCH.

02:39

Oh there's two T's. Yeah yeah see? See? Maybe I am a wordsmith. Listen I was great at spelling up until about fourth grade and then my father was in the computer wholesaling business brought home a computer that had automatic word checker on it you know it was one of the first ones like Microsoft Word or whatever and we were homeschooled and it was like write a report and then just the red squiggly lines would show up and you're like this is cheating.

03:06

It's like the first time you get a calculator in elementary school you're like ha ha and yeah

03:11

I've now it's just all the time. I don't know how to spell anything now. Yeah well you just said calculator

03:18

I remember trying to talk my parents into letting me get that really super smart calculator that I would have never known how to you know work whatsoever.

03:28

The TI -85. Yeah like 50 bucks or something they're like I'm not buying you a calculator for $50.

03:35

Oh I remember in high school the TI -87 was like a hundred and forty dollars for the calculator that was required.

03:41

It was a graphing calculator. Wow. And now it's a free app on your iPhone. Yeah yeah exactly yeah. These kids don't know what it's about.

03:48

No nowadays let's keep reminiscing for another hour Jason. Yeah yeah. Childhood. Man oh man.

03:54

But yeah have you let me ask you this about spelling have you ever typed something into your phone or into like Google or into a computer like if you're writing a word document or pages and you type it in and the computer's like I have no idea what you mean.

04:07

Yeah yeah they're just like whatever yeah no replacement. You type this so poorly it does not even resemble any

04:14

English word. I just can't stand when it when you put a word in you want to say you know you're like you're like I live you know in Michigan and it's like it changes the live to long or something you know just like something totally random you're just like why did it even correct to that.

04:34

Like I just had one where I was trying to text someone 50 dash 60 so I was saying oh it's about 50 to 60 uh -huh right the numbers range yeah and it kept for like four times in a row

04:45

I typed 5 0 dash and then it would say 5 dash 0 like 5 0. I went no 5 0 and I'm so fast.

04:51

You're fighting with your phone. Four times in a row by the and it's only the whole thing only took three and a half seconds but by the fourth time it recorrected

04:58

I wanted to throw my phone through a wall yeah exactly and I just went what what's going on well first of all

05:03

I need to work on patience yeah yeah but second of all yeah why are you on fruits of the spirit Greg exactly you know part of my sanctification process exactly more patient working on your phone the thing is is

05:14

I've never said 5 -0 mm -hmm I'm not a 9 -1 -1 operator I'm not texting people hey the 5 -0 right around the corner you were you were you were texting the

05:23

Dierks Bentley song 5 -1 -5 -0 somebody called a pool pool

05:29

I don't know that song but I'm glad you know it there's probably like one person out there that's gonna be like oh my gosh

05:38

I can't believe we said that and then everybody else is like yeah Dierks Bentley I have no idea

05:44

I do know who Dierks Bentley is I just don't know he had some good tunes my buddy played guitar for him so I kind of delved into a little bit more of it but yeah he yeah he had some it's pretty decent too and he played bluegrass stuff too sometimes yeah so I mean

06:01

I enjoy bluegrass and I was just on a music app I think it was like Amazon Unlimited or something and I'm sitting in the room and Oliver my seven -year -old is sitting on my lap and I was going through the non -explicit stuff of Chris Stapleton it's his latest album and some of his stuff is just like you know one of them was like a song about he's 40 and his life's over and he feels like he's sort of like gosh dang it dude right a couple more years

06:27

I'm 40 I feel good you know and he was singing it and my my seven -year -old looks up at me goes man this guy's really depressive

06:34

I think he meant to say like sounds depressing yeah exactly yeah yeah he's got a couple faster ones but yeah for the most part he's got he's got some good tunes.

06:44

That's really as far as I get into country anymore is maybe a Zac Brown once in a while uh -huh maybe yeah and you toured with Zac Brown didn't you?

06:52

Yeah yeah we did. That's the only country artist that I'm like yeah I really really like them yeah they're I mean they're they're really good musicians yeah they're

07:00

I mean they are really good musicians the yeah cool well

07:05

I'll expect you to have a have them on next week then. Yeah right yeah yeah I'll get a hold of them.

07:10

I know you guys are best buds now. No I'm joking. We used to run into them a little bit more when we were on the road but now it's uh yeah never.

07:19

A DJ actually DJ might might be down there in Nashville. DJ if you're listening. There's a studio down there.

07:26

Yeah you're in Nashville get them on. Yeah man that'd be awesome. We should have DJ on and you guys could just have an episode of you guys talking about.

07:32

People would be so bored and be like oh did they do anything on the road? Well there's one time we played a show and then we watched

07:41

Seinfeld reruns. Yeah yeah exactly. In the hotel. Then we got in the van and drove all the way to New York City.

07:46

And we drove another 800 miles and played another show. Yeah drove through the night. Life of on the road musician is pretty everyone makes it sound sensational.

07:58

Yeah yeah. I feel like there's just a lot of work. Yeah it is. Loading unloading driving. Exactly. The driving part a lot of people forget how much work it is to drive that many miles.

08:09

Yeah I mean it's I mean it's serious man. Did you do a lot of driving when you were? Oh yeah I love to drive.

08:15

I love to drive. Actually you remember right when we went down to Nashville. I love to drive. Dude we got to Nashville in like five hours.

08:22

I know. It's like an eight hour trip. I was like whoa. Yeah I love to drive and yeah so you know if if you know if there's ever a semi -truck driver opening out there

08:34

I might just snag it. I don't know. No I would never. I will never be a semi. I don't I don't think.

08:40

I don't think. We'll see. Well what are we talking about tonight? Uh was this the inclusive episode?

08:46

It was. We want to talk about being inclusive. Yes. We want to talk about how the word has been misrepresented.

08:53

What it means from a secular point of view. What it means from a Christian biblical worldview.

08:59

And we did do a short and we were like yeah we're gonna have to do a you know and we got good feedback on it and we said let's just do a long format one and long format probably

09:08

I don't know we'll try to keep it to half hour or so but um yeah but before we do that you want to do a little newsy news.

09:14

Yeah. Let's get into it. News, the news, the newsy newsy news, the news, the news, the newsy newsy news news.

09:24

We got some news. Yeah we do. Yes we do. So uh we got on the yeah the the first uh the first one is a little bit somber um we are recording this episode on January the 9th.

09:42

Yes so a few days before it releases. Yeah a few days before it releases and I just saw a story that uh

09:50

Bob Saget has passed away um 503 p .m

09:55

on TMZ. Not that I read TMZ all the time but uh yeah yeah.

10:01

You're just scanning TMZ. No I know right. Your celebrity death. It just popped up. Spottings. Everybody was a was a fan of Bob Saget all of a sudden you know on Facebook so I ended up seeing it but the

10:10

Orange County Sheriff's Office tells us we have no information on cause of death and detectives have found no signs of foul play or drug use in this case.

10:20

They note the medical examiner's office will make the final call on the cause and manner of death.

10:26

So yeah Bob Saget 65. I knew him pretty well on full house.

10:33

Right that's kind of our era. Yeah we grew up with back in the 80s early 90s and yeah my and now um

10:40

Aubrey is starting to well she a couple years ago whenever the fuller house episodes start coming out right on Netflix um we started watching that a little bit more but uh but yeah yeah it's you know kind of a kind of a sad sad day.

10:58

Yeah the crazy thing with him was is he was a pretty blue comic meaning you know he he worked dirty before he got that show and he

11:06

I mean he was raunchy but he wasn't like crazy raunchy but he was dirty and then he had that like squeaky clean image for whatever it was eight or nine years or ten years however long that show ran and that's kind of how everyone knew him right but then the comics that knew him coming up together which

11:21

Norm MacDonald and him who Norm just passed away a few months ago were best buds um when when he got done with that show they went

11:30

I can't believe such a dirty comic is you know everyone thinks he's clean and then he like doubled down yeah on his raunchiness to like that he's like oh that's what

11:39

I'm known for now gosh and the crazy thing is is his dirty stuff is not that funny his clean stuff reminds me of Norm a little bit oh it's funny okay and you look at that and you just go oh man did he just kind of sell out to what he thought would either be easier for him or what people expected of him

11:58

I know Norm and him had conversations um about religion and philosophy and you know is their creator and stuff like that gosh

12:06

I hope the Lord saved him I hope you know if if he was you didn't really see it reflected in his life but um it was just a crazy thing when

12:14

I read that I go oh my gosh so you get two two best friends they're dying within a couple months of each other Norm MacDonald and then

12:20

Bob Saget and then also you go did that have anything to do with it but according to the reports right now they said no drugs yeah no drugs uh no suicide it just looks like maybe you know when you get up there a little bit you got to start watching your heart right you know maybe it's one of those deals heart attack yeah yeah yeah yeah crazy that's a you know for us that was a guy you knew pretty well right when we're kids he had a really cool mullet back in the day yeah the mullets are back too man dude they're back so cool all right so the other story

12:50

I have and I think we're just gonna do yeah just the two yeah let's do another one real quick I found this story and I just I had to chuckle because we've been talking now

12:58

I mean we started this podcast in the middle of the virus of the virus right and we're a virus show yeah because that's when we were born yeah so to speak so we've been talking about it a lot lately but um it was funny because I saw this article on Vox now if anyone knows

13:17

Vox News the online they're extremely left extremely progressive and they say in the title says why one of the most jabbed places in America couldn't avoid

13:27

Omicron Puerto Rico has been hit hard by Omicron but it's still a model for how the

13:33

U .S. can beat the pandemic and I had to laugh because they go through and they say 82 percent of Puerto Rico has been vaccinated they have the toughest lockdowns they're still in lockdown they have social distancing they mandate masks everywhere inside your own home you can get in trouble for if you're not wearing a mask in your own home 78 percent of them have had multiple vaccinations and boosters right and they see all this stuff and they go but it could still be it's still a model for what we should do in the

14:04

United States yeah even after saying Puerto Rico has the highest rate per capita of COVID right now out of all

14:11

U .S. states and territories it's so great like I here's the thing okay if if I get three jabs okay air quote jabs hope you hopefully you guys understand what

14:25

I'm saying um if I get three jabs to prevent polio and then

14:31

I get polio I'm gonna have some questions right like I mean I want to know what's going on you know

14:38

I mean in it and it's like everybody's just kind of like well it would have been a lot worse well how do you know that like how do you know that it would have been a lot worse if you didn't have that inside of you

14:49

I mean I don't know I mean and then you hear about this uh we were talking about this before uh the show but uh the guy that invented the

14:58

Myrna vaccine uh jab sorry dang it don't say it I don't want to get shadow banned yeah right exactly um has been kicked off Twitter for uh bringing truth to the guy who invented the technology for the jab was telling uh people on Twitter how he invented it and was releasing medical notes about it and they kicked him off and said he's spreading misinformation the inventor of the technology exactly yeah this is how it works because I invented it and they went no you're spreading misinformation right because you don't agree with the whatever the narrative the narrative that they're trying to push with the propaganda and whatnot and also

15:34

Matt Walsh the other day getting kicked off of I saw that yeah Twitter for uh calling a man a man yeah like I mean he basically said what the said the jeopardy champion was a man the the health and human services uh admiral yeah is a man yeah uh we're dominating sports women's swimming he's like the patriarchy wins every time like tongue -in -cheek exactly yeah exactly you can't have it both ways left what what's going on what do you want you know yeah and they just said oh no that's transphobic and kicked him off Twitter which

16:05

Twitter's a cesspool do you know how many people I know right now that have made the so there was a big movement like a year and a half or two years ago about a year ago year and a half from Twitter to Gab yeah and some other platforms and then

16:18

Gab is is had another surge and so is Gitter now yeah what does I think

16:24

Gitter Rogan what is got on it and then even some of the guys we follow that have big followings on on Instagram and Twitter so is it is it like a

16:32

Twitter or what it's the one that Trump started oh gotcha okay okay GE I almost said

16:37

Gitter yeah Larry the cable guy thing yeah it's Gitter done log on yeah

16:44

Gitter here's your styrofoam cup and string that's all it is it's not even an app exactly you just stand out in your backyard and yell at your neighbor it's called

16:54

Gitter done app Gitter no yeah I yeah I I'm not really following social media

17:01

I mean I I have a hard time keeping up with Facebook and yeah Instagram but well

17:06

Twitter I'll be totally honest that there are a lot of traders stock traders on Twitter so you know following certain people that might have a good play or might have a good you know outlook on the market or whatever so yeah but yeah but we're in a time where evil is called good good yeah

17:26

I was just reading a couple hours ago Psalm 2 and it just popped into my mind uh can

17:33

I just read a little bit of it absolutely has to do with that's what we're talking about why do the nations conspire and the people plot in vain the kings of the earth rise up and the rulers band together against the

17:44

Lord and against his anointed saying let us break their chains and throw off their shackles so they're basically saying hey let us uh we don't want to live morally we don't want to live by the laws of God we don't want to live by the created order let's throw that off the one capital o enthroned in heaven laughs the

18:02

Lord scoffs at them this is where we need to get this in our heart as believers yeah he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath saying

18:10

I've installed my king on Zion my holy mountain I will proclaim the Lord's decree he said to me you are my son today

18:16

I have become your father now David's talking in the spirit here and of course we look back at this and we say this is

18:23

Christ so we skip a few verses down and it ends and saying like this therefore you kings be wise be warned you rulers of the earth so you you you

18:33

Bilderbergs and you Bidens and you Bezos's and you Elon Musk's and those who have power and elites and Rockefellers and and prime ministers and congressmen serve the

18:44

Lord with fear and celebrate his rule with trembling kiss his son or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction for his wrath can flare up at any moment blessed are all who take refuge in him amen so we have a promise there yeah uh

19:02

God's Christ's wrath who's ruling and reigning right now can flare up at any moment yeah and we we as believers

19:08

I know we're getting serious in the newsy news section here but as believers we have to preach the gospel preach

19:14

Christ crucified preach his grace and tell them turn repent from your wicked ways because the wrath of God is coming and he will make everything right yeah all the injustices in the world that we're talking about right now uh

19:25

Jason we're gonna see Christ make them right and it's not gonna go well for those who haven't repented right he's seated at the right hand of the father putting all his enemies underneath his feet right amen yeah man cool that's great is that all we got for the news yeah that's it for the news man awesome and that was the newsy news so being inclusive that's what we're talking about tonight huh what does that mean inclusive seems to be such a hot button word and topic let's uh everyone should be inclusive let's let's involve everyone in uh it's crazy how it's services and yeah and in in uh taking of the sacraments and well

20:09

I mean through through church through secular through everywhere like I feel like I didn't even hear this word too much uh in the first 20 30 years of my life yeah and now in the last 10 years

20:22

I've just heard it all the time right inclusive inclusive inclusive it's almost like a mantra 20 20 years ago when we started our band yeah um it was kind of the mission statement it was let's be more inclusive than exclusive because we were playing for youth groups sorry guys

20:40

I just hit the mic um uh yeah we were playing for youth groups and all of a sudden we were like well you know we we want to go into more uh venues and the the secular realm um regular music whatever whatever you want to call it

20:56

I don't even like to refer to it as either or but uh yeah but you know we were we were trying to uh uh write tunes that it was like what are they are they talking about their their girlfriend right now are they talking about god like what which part so was that from like a business standpoint to be more inclusive to like try to appeal to more people it was like what was that it was it was like a mission kind of like we were going out there trying to win people to christ but you know kind of doing it in a roundabout you two -ish way like a seeker friendly kind of yeah seeker friendly are they christian are they christian are they not you know and you always wanted to have people be like what's so different about them

21:47

I want to ask them questions and nobody ever wanted to ask you questions like if you're a nice guy you're a nice guy you know like it's not anything like oh he must be a christian because he's a nice guy it's like no it's it yeah there's lots of nice guys that aren't christians exactly yeah exactly you know nice by the world standards exactly yeah well it's funny that you say that because inclusiveness

22:08

I think has morphed over the years too uh even the last decade or so excuse me and uh you know even 10 -15 years ago inclusive just meant to try to be as broad as possible on you know like you even just said even from a business standpoint of like well let's just try to be bland in general right or try to be nice to everyone so we can get them to our show or our church or whatever yeah invite them to church but now

22:37

I feel and this is where inclusiveness uh from the secular definition has to go uh it's now become very very specific on what ironically yeah inclusive has become exclusive inclusiveness has become very specific on what you have to be to be termed right inclusive yeah yeah which what is the actual definition so I was

23:00

I was gonna read the second definition which is really interesting uh not excluding any of the parties or groups involved in something okay so anyone shows up to your church uh you know as long as they're there that's great you know right um as long as they're there with uh you know a guy with his with his boyfriend you know as long as they're there hearing hearing the word um you know that's okay let's let's just let them come in and take uh take the lord's supper with the rest of the congregation or the unbeliever to just go ahead and come on man you're included come on man you know you can you can go ahead and well in that example for me the very first thing that comes to my mind and tell me what you think about this this is what

23:52

I'm just working through the the we see that a lot like just get them into church yeah and we'll accept them as they are where they're at as long as they're in church hearing a preacher hopefully speak about the bible teach the bible talk about god nirvana had a song called come as you are right yeah

24:10

I feel like that's the mantra of a lot of seeker friendly churches right right you know I think they play it at the beginning you know just to get people in have you been to a church like that where they'll like play a little music to get you going like yeah you're like oh what are you

24:27

I am wayward I'm in the right church right but uh my very first thought is uh the the fact that we're even thinking get them to church to get them some type of saved yeah air quotes like that's totally backwards like that that couple that you were just talking about that homosexual couple they should be hearing and being discipled about christ by you in the workplace at your home while you're at their barbecue like we are the disciples yeah throughout the week the assembly of the brethren is for believers yeah now does that mean that an unbeliever might be coming to church every once in a while yeah yeah sure yeah but the majority of people in that church are saved yeah are sanctified that's the assembly of the believers the bible says that pastor that shepherd is preaching and strengthening the body of christ right he's not preaching to the unsaved there yeah and we have it totally backwards to where you know your example is totally right when we hear oh well you got to be inclusive anyone who wants to come to church and it's like well no the body of christ is pretty exclusive it's for believers yeah now does that say we we stand at the front and say are you a believer at all you can't come in well yeah it's the definition of the church is exclusive it's the body of christ it's it's the elect argument from the reform uh you know whenever people try to you know uh try to tell you that the reformed way of thinking of the elect is wrong it's like you know the elect is not an exclusive uh you know only 20 people are involved here you know like like right i mean it it may be top 20 yeah yeah it may be exclusive maybe i'm using that uh very loosely but there are going to be so many people in heaven like even john describes that in revelation he turned around and could not count the number he there were too many people behind him that he could not count and you know abraham uh uh descendants as numerous as the stars i mean the word elect you know is is not set apart yeah yeah unique it means one of a kind it means chosen yeah and it's not a you know a word that is so you know i don't know it's not a word that's describing the number of something right we're describing what it is yeah it's set apart it's different it's unique right and god has had a remnant in elect since you know the entire bible yeah exactly so so this whole thing of two the other thing i didn't mean to interrupt no no what what really gets under my skin is like oh i don't believe in that elect stuff right well the new testament talks about it 27 times the old testament talks about it 15 times he uses the word remnant and set apart hundreds of times like we have to deal with exactly right and so the thing is is we don't know who the elect are i mean spurgeon even says this he's like if i if i saw people with the the letter e on their back right then i would just go to them right but no we're we're preaching to to everyone that we can we we want people to hear the the good news the gospel i do like that how this episode's on uh include the word inclusive and we're already back to the election within seven minutes amen it's it's hard it's hard baby but no yeah i understand where you're coming from because uh yeah because i even because i think we got off track on that because i said i think it was when i started singing kansas that that could be on my wayward son we kind of that could be too but uh it's it's so crazy because what we're seeing with the word inclusive so so here's my dig on this um what what the world does what what the secular world does is they take a definition they twist it into an agenda that means this this and this below it so they have a word but that word means you have to believe these certain things subliminally or sometimes it's right in your face but they take the word and then what the what the evangelical christian church does is they try to take that word and then incorporate that word into their so -called church doctrine or the way they do business or the way they hold church and and they try to distance themselves from the the meaning of the word that the secular word has but but still include it to try to feel like they're part of hey man i'm hip i'm with it right we're inclusive it's cool well what does the word inclusive mean to the world now right 30 50 80 years ago the word inclusive meant something totally different now today in 2021 when we're recording this soon to be 2022 uh the word inclusive means acceptance of all sorts of things yeah your truth is your truth is your right it means acceptance of subjective morality it means uh acceptance of you having your own truth it means acceptance of the lgbtq abcdefg hijk lmnop lifestyle it means acceptance of all these acceptance of b crt blm liberalism it means acceptance uh you know all these things and the church can't accept those things they're they're they're starkly anti -biblical right so it gets to this weird thing to where in it i don't want to seem harsh but it gets to this thing to where we want to try to take the inclusiveness that the christians read into in love your enemy as yourself or you know love your enemy treat others as you want to want to be treated all these things love your neighbor yeah and then say oh that's what we mean that's what the world means too by include we're just trying to be like the world where we're inclusive we just love everyone right and then it becomes okay but what does love really mean jason like what what does love does love mean i accept sin did jesus love people to the point to where he said he coddled their sin and he said well it's okay you don't have to repent yeah because i love you i'm inclusive i brought this up in our short but you know like like the woman caught in adultery who was about to get stoned you know um i mean jesus even said uh uh go and uh uh sin no more right meeting the woman at the well i mean he didn't he called he called the woman out he said yeah you don't have one husband you have seven you know and it's like you know i i think at times we as believers also take the judge not lest you be judged out of context yeah you know i mean i i think that uh you know we it's like it's like look if if you are a part of a body of believers and there is something that that needs to be said to your brother like it it needs to be said you know yeah um uh and even matthew 18 comes into this uh with uh church discipline and and just going to your brother with by yourself and going with uh another brother to uh to have a conversation i mean i mean there's there's so many steps that can happen within that context but um as unbelievers come into the flock i mean there is there is a uh there is something that that a shepherd needs to show the the the new believers and and that's another thing i mean like you know there needs to be an actual actual shepherd that is actually shepherding the flock right yeah i mean protecting them there's fighting right yeah i mean there's so many there's so many directions that this conversation can go in right um but yeah i mean the the word inclusive is such a it's such a a hard word to really have a a quick 20 -minute conversation with what with yeah which what we're trying to do right now right well i'll tell you what it is it's it's multiple generations of not understanding what the biblical commandments of love is right that's the problem because you got to remember too in the secular culture inclusive in love think about everything you see right now uh we posted even about like disney movies for kids and everything's love love love equality equality equality inclusive inclusive inclusive well all those words on you know just at the surface sublimin they they they are good things yeah love is generally a good thing yep equality generally if just on the surface a good thing for sure inclusiveness generally a good thing well let's if we dig down into what they're saying what the secular meaning of each one of those things is love hey let me do what i want don't judge my sin equality well equality in outcome not equality in uh ability right or equality meaning i get to choose whatever i want to do uh you know inclusive hey i want to include my sin in everything you know in in anything that i do you need to be inclusive of that it's like when you biblically break down what those big words mean that these buzzwords that they're using in the secular culture uh they're vastly different than what the bible teaches about and then we have the problem of the church trying to incorporate those things and going oh yeah inclusive love equality these big buzzwords yeah they might mean something we have deep down in the depths right i think i think it's in uh proverbs where it says in the depths of things is where it's known so in the depths of the definition of the word what do they really mean what are you trying to get across that's where we have vast differences and i'll tell you what a church is not going to be able to walk that tight rope right of trying to appease the world and appease god right you can't have two masters who are you going to serve and i mean that comes back to seeker friendly churches yeah right i mean you know i remember a few years ago there was a church here in town that had advertisements on tv and they were like we got pop you know and they were like throwing throwing mountain dew and like you know like they had fountain machines or whatever and they had a starbucks coffee you know whatever barista there and uh and it was just like you know you're drawing these people in for for what exactly entertainment or for christ and yeah you know why we actually gather you know i mean these teachings are not easy that's for sure you know i mean i mean the learning scripture is not easy and some of some of what is written in there to live by it to be holy oh this is it's not fun no it hurts it hits the hurts the flesh yeah it will you know but it's i mean it's it's amazing it's lovely it's everything that uh you should want you know as a believer um but yeah i mean it's uh i don't know i mean the the word inclusive i i really have a hard time whenever a believer says well i'm okay i love inclusiveness okay well what i mean what do you mean what does that mean what does that mean you know like well okay so here's another thing too you bring up a really good point like we need to be careful if if the if the secular non -believing culture has co -opted a word to mean something then you need to be careful as a believer to make sure you're using that word properly if we're going to say we've given that word over to the culture like inclusive like equality like uh love for instance then we do have to define when we're talking about that right because the majority of people right now if you were to go out and let's say let's just throw numbers out there let's say you you you pulled 20 000 people 18 to 55 i would bet if you polled them and said what does the term inclusive mean to you right and even if they're christians or not i would say the majority of them would have a non -biblical view of the word inclusive and they would also say that includes including all kinds of things like reproductive rights which we know is abortion homosexuality transgenderism all those things like they would say that's all included so if you as a christian use the word inclusive to mean well i want to treat others like they treat me or i would like to be treated well okay you're you're using a different terminology you have to define your terms now yeah because now when you're talking to us to a secular culture and you're using their terminology but you think it means something different that's that's very confusing not only to other believers but to the secular culture right so i think that's why i'm so big and i know you are too i'm like anytime we talk about something we try to bring up a definition right what what do we mean when we say this word words are fluid yeah we had this conversation earlier tonight when we were before we were recording like how words kind of you know the meanings change and and how people view the word and what it means and what the intent is behind it so it's like we have to be very careful about our language too when we're using certain buzzwords yeah do i like the fact that the secular culture has co -opted some of these words to mean something that they don't absolutely not right but the only way to fight that is to rightly give the definition when we use those words right we have to remind the next generation of oh no no no this is what that word actually means and this is the biblical meaning of that word not what the secular culture has co -opted it to mean does that make sense yep because it can be confusing it can be like when you start using lingo of the secular culture as a christian and i think some churches and some leaders do that so they can be two -faced about it yeah let me just get into a little conspiracy theory here i think some are you about to say jeffrey epstein is still alive no that was that was last episode you guys can go check that out we're getting all kinds of hits on that believe me he landed your jeffrey epstein theory but a lot of people agreed with you actually i'm like oh my gosh jason's onto something i didn't know that yeah sorry but yeah go ahead real quick i'll finish up my point here i think some leaders and some pastors use that language inclusive equality love is love all these things so so the unbelieving secular world can look at them and go okay they're cool with us right we're not going to put up a fight against them still gain some popularity with them hey i'll tune in once every couple weeks because it's a nice little life coach lesson type of sermon but then can also go back to his congregants who question him or any other believers that question him and then on the side go oh no man like inclusive like you know and then twist it oh no like love like god's love like jesus love oh no like equality like we're all created equal in his image and it's a great way for them to play both sides it's it's basically politics in religion it's amazing and it and i hate it yeah i you know i mean it's it's like let's be clear about what we're talking about right i mean i i okay there's going to be some people that might disagree with this statement but i love reform theology because of the exegesis of scripture right like taking scripture reading it you know like not reading yourself into it right but seeing what the text says yeah seeing what the text says and i mean a lot of sermons i mean john mccarth i mean i'm listening to a lot of john mccarthur right now i mean i love john johnny mack i do not agree with his eschatology but uh what you can disagree with someone's yeah exactly right i thought you reformed folk were so narrow -minded i know right exactly yeah but yeah man i mean i mean it's it's like i don't know i don't really uh like the fact that you know we as reformed uh are viewed as the exclusive you know like like we we have this little club that nobody can get in and it's like no we're we're just reading scripture like like i mean you probably you could disagree with our you know with the the doctrines of grace or the five solos or whatever but it's like man like we are not so far outside of the box that it's like oh my gosh i'm just gonna push back on all this stuff and you guys need to really figure out how to be more inclusive you know and and use what you have to uh to uh you know speak to society a little bit better now we're gonna read scripture we're gonna we're gonna do as as uh as scripture says i mean right there's there's nothing that we're gonna take and uh you know hopefully take out of context i know that there are some out there that may but um you know guess what we all we all are you know really trying to glorify god through every action and every word and even on this podcast like yeah we probably have messed up before and possibly said some things that uh might be possibly wrong but guess what we are really trying to stick to scripture and what scripture says we're not trying to gain uh listeners by cutting corners and right you know it's like scripture scripture let's let's just read what scripture says and do as as god has commanded us to do no that's a great point i would say too though to your point like everyone trying to be inclusive uh and you're even saying like reform people think oh well you're you're you know you're in this little club and you're being exclusive it's like but christianity is pretty exclusive right right the requirements are pretty exclusive so it's like it's like a dichotomy to where we're like oh it's open for all so it's like yeah yeah yeah but christ said i'm the way the truth and the life no one gets comes with the father except by me except through me like there's only one way nicodemus said what do i have to do you have to be born again like there's very specific exclusive things with it's true christianity too so it's like a weird thing to where we're trying to mimic the the inclusiveness of the world but yet hold to doctrines that are very exclusive yeah and unfortunately i think a lot of people don't want to talk about that that's why that's why universalism uh is is is growing so rapidly it's like oh come on man can't we just all get along believe in what we want and well everybody's going to all eventually get there one day man like you know like oprah like all paths lead to god and it's like well no that's not what the bible says right that's not what the word of god says and if you're a if you're a church that is founded on the bible yeah and hold to the scriptures well then you can't take part in this worldly inclusiveness as it's defined by the world right right um and once again i i want to make sure we're being clear here because someone might tune in and go see they're just a bunch of you know what they just hate everyone and look at them um if i start naming off some of the people that i have relationships with um and what they walk in and what they do uh you would go what the heck i'm not going to start calling people out i'm saying is my job is to preach repent repentance preach the gospel uh you know lead them to christ in any way that i can through example but at the same time i don't ostracize people because of personal choices yeah i can't uh treat someone differently uh just because they have different life choices than than i do they're image bearers of god they have inherent worth and value right right but at the same time when it comes up in conversation oh absolutely right this is sin and this isn't this is right and this is wrong this is godly and this isn't this is biblical and that isn't no and i expect the same from you in my life yeah i expect the same from my wife from my uh believing friends so it's like yeah it's this weird thing to where we've got this whole push to where on the surface inclusive sounds good right just hey man just everyone get along yeah world peace man yep you know what i mean but it's like no the world isn't going to be at peace until christ returns right yeah until that kingdom is is established yeah until we're ruling and reigning with him in a new creation because we do live under sin nature and there is a there is a standard yeah and god has set the standard it's true yeah man no that's that's great i mean i know we've uh we've probably went a little long tonight but oh did we guys this is uh this is this this subject i mean it's it's pretty serious uh we just need to uh be biblical in our thoughts on the word inclusive because yeah you know and i i say i sound like a broken record but do not let the culture of the gospel bow to the culture of the secular culture right i feel like too often we bow to that we say oh well we want to be cool and hip and with it and we want to feel like we want acceptance from the world you want to what tell the world to go pound sand yeah they don't get to it's it's it's christ it's my christ that saved me that's ruling and reigning on the throne right now it's it's not yours it's not the it's not the ruler of this air yeah satan is underfoot the head of the serpent has been crushed you know and let's go out with that confidence but also guys if you're listening heck send us some notes on this tell us what you think about uh being inclusive yeah um we love the comments that you yeah i mean that we get always do i know we've been getting more comments on instagram and facebook and uh youtube and some personal comments uh you guys have been sending me and jason we always love that we love the encouragement as always you can check us out on dmwpodcast .com

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